Bonus: 100% Agentic on Meta at a $1B Brand | True Classic's Ben Diamond & Triple Whale's Maxx Blank

17:09Maxx Blank:All of those things are now possible with literally a few prompts. So that unlocks unbelievable speed, unbelievable quality of assets, and it cuts your costs by literally millions of dollars.

17:20Ben Diamond:One of the worries that I think people have is when you use too much AI creative that there's a backlash, but you're not finding that really at all. It's just as performative as real stuff.

17:28Maxx Blank:I think it's really important to stay true to the, what I believe is important for consumers, which is authenticity. So one thing, for example, that we won't be leaning into, at least for now, is this whole idea of UGC AI. And the reason is because we find it hard to pretend that someone is there like raving about the brand when it's not a real person and we don't necessarily feel great about it. I can't say about what's going to happen long-term, but for now, we don't feel comfortable with that. So we are not leaning into that trend, even though a lot of people do, because I do not want to risk authenticity.

18:00Ben Diamond:I'm curious if like even platforms will put some type of like regulation on not doing that. I think it's appropriate. It messes up their pool, right? If it's all... UGC has its own issues already, right? Right, 100%. Whether it's your employees or friendlies or whatever. Brand things can be really great. I think that you guys are doing a lot of brand videos and stuff like that.

18:21Maxx Blank:And so that's, to me, the key here is for us, when we portray the product, what's really important to the customer is so they understand what it's going to look and feel like when they put it on. What does the XL actually look like on the summer, right? And then what is it going to look like in a different color? And I don't think that is an issue whatsoever to allow a consumer to go and say like, I want to see that not in black, but in heather gray, but stay true to the color. Or I want to see that in that larger size, but stay true to the fit. So it's extremely important for us that anything we put out there portrays the right fit, the right fabrication, the right color.

18:53Maxx Blank:And as long as those lenses are kept true, which we do a lot of work to ensure that it does, then we're totally comfortable with that. And then you can do fun things, like you can personalize that. So you might do a lifestyle shoot in New York and then you're like, actually turn this around, make it Mexico City. And before you know it, you have Diego rocking the shirt in Mexico City. And I'm talking about a 20 second exercise. And what about the next thing is in Rome and the next thing is in Vancouver. And I'm talking about seconds to create incredible videos and lifestyle. So that is really exciting.

19:27Ben Diamond:Hearing how Ben is using a Mobi2, is this sort of what you envisioned for people? Are they leading the pack? How is the Mobi2 rollout going? It's going well. I mean, we're seeing different types of adoption. You have like the top of Shopify, which that's where I'd put you guys. Other brands are there as well. They're very much AI first and leaning into it. But even people, no one really has it down yet. Everyone's still trying to figure it out, how to implement it, how to make sure it doesn't hallucinate, how to make sure we can leverage the different models of different platforms. No one's got it down yet, that's for sure.

19:58Ben Diamond:But there's definitely a clear difference between the ones that are leaning all in or the ones that are just maybe exporting some data, putting it into ChatGPT, and trying to get some gains there. One thing, yeah, you said that loop, the whole loop, the iterative loop, that's really the vision that we have is how can we help marketers, operators, get the insight, take the action, measure it, and keep iterating at quality, at scale. And I think the dream is to be able to market to one at scale, right? And if you take your example from Diego, right? If you can marry together data that can actually change and make it very personal to the end consumer on the fly, the website, the landing page, the PDP, the shirt.

20:36Ben Diamond:There's so much you can do to leverage that whole loop. And ideally, if you're personalizing, you're increasing conversion rate. That's kind of like that whole thing is the vision. Personalizing is the other huge, huge opportunity, right? Like you literally could make a, you know, with the changes to Andromeda, everyone's talking about the different customer archetypes and their customer journey and making sure that you've got ads for everyone. now you could have landing pages for everyone as well. It sort of unlocks, again, it's this FOMO of like, am I being personalized enough? How are you guys approaching personalization in the world of AI?

21:08Ben Diamond:I would say that right now,

21:09Maxx Blank:the biggest game, if you will, is the data architecture game, because almost every single thing you do can come back to how well did you orchestrate or architected the model? Like, what is the data model? And what are the KPIs? And what are you learning? And what are you optimizing for? And if you do that and you orchestrate it pretty well, you can unlock entire essentially operating systems that are self-contained. And then the person becomes, let me go and work on this system and keep making it better, feed it better information, refine the KPIs, refine my perspective on how to think about it, you name it.

21:44Maxx Blank:And so for us, it's been a pretty interesting, like if you will, time on how we almost like rethink every component of how we have been operating and like what needs to be fed into those systems. So if I'm just using that one particular example for a second, we are thinking through the lens of like, what markets are we in? And then for within each market, who are the customers? And so instead of me saying, hey, it's Diego in Mexico City, I actually want to validate who is Diego. I want to know everything I can know about them, where they live, what's their height and weight, and what types of products they buy from us, and where do they hang out on the weekends.

22:24Maxx Blank:Because the better I can portray the picture of true Diego, who might hopefully be the biggest persona for us in Mexico City, the more it's going to actually resonate with them. So we are going really deep onto this context model. How can we build the best possible context around every single person? and what can we know about them that goes deeper than just what they've done with us. And you can actually enrich datasets with like deep research right now. You can throw AI and say like, tell me everything there is to know about Eric. And by the end of this conversation, I know more about you than you can imagine just with old information that's available about you online.

23:00Maxx Blank:Now take all that context and instead of throwing Eric as a user into our general lifecycle marketing and a welcome flow and a bet on card flow and whatever we orchestrated in the more generic times, I want to reach Eric on a one-to-one basis in the most personalized, customized way. Based on your past history. Everything I know about you. Yes. To literally study you on the deepest possible level and reach out to you whenever you want to be reached out to. In whatever format you want to be reached out to. With whatever product is relevant for you. What colors, what fit, what sizes, what stories.

23:36Maxx Blank:And you start stitching it all together and some of it is first party data, what you maybe have left for us in a post-purchase survey at some point or what actions you have taken on the website, what products you watched or viewed, what you added to car, what you purchased, what you were raving about in the reviews and what you told us that you liked or didn't like. But then all this other context about who Eric is. Oh, he's a great D2C guy and he loves to talk to all the different brands and maybe I can talk to Eric about how I can make it super easy for him to look really cool and put together with really easy...

24:06Maxx Blank:Put him on a rowboat.

24:07Ben Diamond:Yeah, put him on a rowboat. And all of a sudden, it's like, you know what?

24:11Maxx Blank:I like this. I like this brand. And that's the type of stuff we're talking about right now. How do we truly personify it? But it's moving from segmentation to a one-to-one marketing. And that's been the holy grail forever. It's just that we've never actually been able to deliver on that. And now you can. And we're trying to figure out how we bring that vision to life. Because the tools are truly there. You just have to map that out and build that system to enable one-to-one marketing across all touch points.

24:37Ben Diamond:I've mentioned it a few times on this podcast, but that's the minority report scene in the movie, right? Where he walks into the mall and they know his whole purchase history and the ad reaches out. And how do you guys think about personalization at Triple Will? I think to manage all that context, all that data, it's very hard to single point solutions. It's difficult. So I mentioned earlier that we have like a data warehouse essentially underneath every account. And that has all of that stored. Now, if you marry context and AI, you also need a system to have that as well. You put those two things together and you can do some pretty incredible orchestration to do the Holy Grail, right?

25:13Ben Diamond:Which would be marketing to one at scale. And that's a huge thing. And that's how we think about it as well. You know, inside Triple Whale, we've got the customer journey, you know, very granular. We have all the actions taken online. Then we have different systems where you can send a segment in real time. You can literally have Moby create a Klaviyo campaign ready to go based on purchase history. You can hit apply and it can send a segment with a beautiful offer ready to go. End to end, you can do that whole thing. How much of your ad spend at True Classic is going through agentic media buyers at this point?

25:47Maxx Blank:A hundred percent.

25:48Ben Diamond:A hundred percent. How long is that?

25:50Maxx Blank:I mean, actually I should correct that. A hundred percent of meta is going through it, but we are in the process of enabling the rest. So like Google and TikTok and whatnot. And that's been ongoing for what? Like two months, maybe? A month? Six weeks? And meta is our largest channel. So as you can imagine, if we trust this system with our largest channel, it's exciting. How are the early returns? Are they as good or better, I assume? In this current state, it's actually getting to a place where AI can at least be at parity with a team managing it before it takes crazy swings. So it's playing a lot of defense, identifying any losses.

26:26Maxx Blank:Human in the loop. Human in the loop, but very much getting the reps and the understanding of all the different scenarios. And there's context to be taught around what is the promotional calendar for True Classic? What does it look like on a Monday morning versus a Sunday afternoon?

26:41Ben Diamond:We've enabled the ability for them to bring in their calendar. So it has that context.

26:45Maxx Blank:Yeah, the marketing calendar, what's happening with product lunches. There's just a lot of context, similar to onboarding an employee. If you were to bring in a media bar, they would need to be a good student of the business for a considerable amount of time to know how to run the show. So that to us has been like the first pretty much six weeks or so. And now we're actually turning a page to play a little bit more offense. Which countries should we be pushing on? Within each country, which budgeting managing entities are the particular assets? Are we promoting the right types of products? How can we tag with AI which product is being promoted in every asset and then map it out to the website and the entire journey?

27:20Maxx Blank:And then also map out the rest of the business context, such as how much product do you have of every one of those items? And what's the lead time to get more of it? And how do you take all that into consideration to figure out the right price point, the right discount, the right level of advertising, the right assets? The product becomes kind of like the hero in this big data model and just all that is just context. Supply chain context, logistics context, inventory context, marketing context, website context. So you can make the best possible decisions. And it's really robust. And in the past, you had to have really solid, if you will, cross-functional relationships.

27:52Maxx Blank:that no matter how you try to orchestrate the team or no matter how you try to lead, there will always be breakdown in communications. And it won't happen as often.

28:01Ben Diamond:It'll happen once a week. It'll happen when you have these regular scheduled touch points versus this constant recursive loop. The amount of context we are putting into Mobi for this, let's just say you guys are pushing us in a very good way. What does this look like? I think when you texted in Slack, you're like, we're going all in. We're putting it all. We're going all in.

28:22Maxx Blank:We already are all in. It just gets deeper and deeper. We look at each other like, okay, let's go.

28:28Ben Diamond:And you guys push us. Get all that business context. That's not a joke. That's a lot of management. Even to make sure the models can manage that context properly, what gets prioritized if something comes in now, what happens to the historical context, we're pushing the bounds for sure. I'm ultimately a techno-optimist, as I think probably we all are in this space. and I'm curious when you're seeing all these incredible gains, what is it freeing up on your team? So we have this idea, I think, that when AI does more of the things that humans can't do 24 hours a day or whatever, or that we, like, what is it freeing up for your team to focus on that like maybe only humans can do?

29:05Maxx Blank:It's a great question. I probably would give you a video game analogy. To me, if you get, are you into gaming at all? I'm not a gamer. Okay, so if you start a video game and you start playing, right? The first few levels are kind of easy. The bosses are not too intimidating. You also don't have the best equipment or tools to go and rock the game. But as you keep up leveling, what happens is you get better or more skilled as the user. Maybe you have the best weapons or equipment or whatever the game provides. And then the game gets more and more challenging because as you get better at that game, the bosses become more challenging, harder to beat and so on.

29:41Maxx Blank:To me, this is like a 100 level boost. It's not that the game gets any easier. In fact, it gets a lot more challenging. But now you've got these crazy tools to take the game to a whole new level that you wouldn't even be able to think about because you were so bandwidth constrained. You couldn't imagine the boss. No, you're not even there. I mean, you're at level seven and I'm just jumping you to level 77. And you've never even come around that level. But now you have your whole equipment with you and you have all these tools and you're ready. And so it's exciting. If I'm thinking about the average person, they feel like a superman or superwoman.

30:18Maxx Blank:Like, what can't I do? What problem can't I solve? We say true classic crush the challenge. Like what challenge? There's no challenge big enough that you can't crush right now. And that is such an empowering feeling if you are past the fear zone of, well, look, this feels a little bit scary too. What's gonna happen with my job? Am I gonna get fired? Is it coming for me? And you start realizing like, no, I can just now create value on a completely, completely different scale if I choose to take the plunge versus look at it as a threat. And now I'm becoming just the most basically valuable person to create such tremendous value.

30:56Maxx Blank:And I'm unstoppable. And it's not just a true classic. It's no matter what you do right now. The opportunity to create value is unprecedented right now.

31:03Ben Diamond:Max and I were talking about this on the way over. It's like in my career, I've only ever been an individual contributor. That's why I had to start this company. Management has never been my greatest skill. And I just feel like we're in an era of like individual contributor empowerment. Same with like Shopify has always been about merchant empowerment. And that's really where AI is going. Like the ability to spin up a brand, the ability to, you know, all of these things get so much easier in this era. So it's like, it's just almost awakening to the possibilities is one of the biggest tasks is realizing what you do have at your fingerprints now and be able to to act on it each time you like level up there's a whole new like discovery a new like door that opens up to other ideas or potentials like we were talking about a few other channels what was

31:45Maxx Blank:the what uh what's the live tiktok shop or whatnot yeah i mean like you even said you're like this is

31:50Ben Diamond:a whole strategy we have to do it right to think about it you can now have maybe time to actually approach different strategies like that and then go all in on them i mean for a company like ours

31:59Maxx Blank:for sure what i have always been i had to do the b2b wholesale stuff you can maybe go deep on

32:05Ben Diamond:these things and opportunity comes everywhere.

32:07Maxx Blank:I've always had to hold myself back because the complexity would be too great for the team to take at any given moment in time. But we have this like ambition. We want to empower over a hundred million people to look good and feel good with True Classic by 2034. That's a big vision. That means we're everywhere on all shelves, in all retailers, with all products, you name it. To bring that vision to life, you have to do a lot of things and you would be bandwidth constrained. But if you can actually solve or crush more and more of those, if you will, day-to-day challenges. It just allows it to up-level the game.

32:38Maxx Blank:Live is a really fun exercise right now. It's becoming a bigger thing. I know we shared it to both of you earlier here, but we go live with Mark and the group here from the studio and we go live every day and it goes incredibly well. But that's a whole new way of engaging with our customers. And I was telling both of you this fun story because Ryan, our founder, went on a live the other day, maybe last week. And literally the interaction was so exciting and he offered one of the people in the audience to pay for their tattoo if they wanted to tattoo the true classic logo and Keith shout out to Keith by the way what an incredible customer legitimately went on that day and got the true classic tattoo on his leg and we just had an interview with him last week because I was so blown away that would have never happened in any other digital interaction that was so unique, a bit crazy too, but truly only available when you have this feeling of like, I'm actually talking to Eric as in real life as possible through this like live engagement.

33:41Maxx Blank:Obviously, it's a tattoo, so it's a bit of a different story, but just goes to show the types of interactions you can have with your audience, the type of connection you can have with other people. And that's something we're trying to amplify. So now we're thinking, can we go live from all our retail stores? Can we do that in a more of a fuller schedule? What are the right channels to go live from? Obviously there's TikTok, there's whatnot, there's others, just new things that we did not have time or bandwidth to give our attention to that are now coming up on the agenda.

34:08Ben Diamond:I believe, I'm sure you guys share some of my beliefs, is that with AI, in-person is going to be, or live interactions, like authentic. Do you think that there'll be any type of like, I don't know, reorienting some of the DTC marketing around in-person touch points? You You mentioned 13, 15 stores. How else could you go and lean in there more?

34:28Maxx Blank:I think at the end of the day, and you mentioned it earlier, it's like what makes us human and what is for machines versus what is for humans? I would say that by definition, it's not a bug, it's a feature. We are probably not as analytically inclined. We're not as detail-oriented. We're creatives. We are meant to be people that create in this world. And so if you think about what Jobs used to require of all of us, right? Is it for humans to go and crunch every number that is possibly can look at from every metric, from every angle, from every channel, from every country? It's not for humans. And we just have to let go.

35:04Maxx Blank:It's no different than if you were to produce shirts at scale or cars at scale, you would set up robotics and you would set up lines to help systemize as much of this as possible. It's like that's not for humans. But humans are here to create. We're here to envision a better way, a better life. How do we make things better, faster, cheaper? So that's the one thing that we are kind of all getting to access a lot more of right now. And you feel it. And then you get all this other stuff to be handled by AI, by systems, by machines. And it's pretty exciting.

35:35Ben Diamond:Where do you see, you mentioned your lofty North Star goals for the next five years or so.

35:39Maxx Blank:I mean, it used to be our 10 years target, but now it's about eight years out. 2034.

35:44Ben Diamond:Where are the green fields? You guys have grown so fast, so hard. You're internationally expanded. You're in retail. where do you see the bulk of the lofty growth goals coming from? Where's the most exciting pasture?

35:55Maxx Blank:It's a great question. So for me, if I'm thinking about the three key dimensions that we have been growing the brand on, product, countries, and channels. Those are the three dimensions. So in product, we used to be a t-shirt brand. Now we're a full clothing brand. We offer everything I'm wearing, our denim, our underwear, our socks, hats, jackets, activewear, you name it. We also had a recent launch for women and we have kids. We have many women shoppers. they shop for their significant address and now they can shop for themselves as well. So on the product side, if you think about Global TAM t-shirts is only 5 % out of clothing.

36:28Maxx Blank:They have 95 % elsewhere. If you think about Clothing TAM, like the US is about 20%. That means that the worldwide opportunity outside of the US is four times as large as the United States. If you think about channels, it still stands to the case that 60, 70 % of clothing is being purchased in a physical location. True Classic has blown it out of the water are online, Shopify, our website, our apps, Amazon. So now we have big partnerships with Costco, with Target, with others. We have our own retail stores. So if you think about all of those early ventures, if you will, that we kind of started exercising or pursuing, there is so much growth opportunity in each one of them.

37:07Maxx Blank:Any one of those partnerships can grow into a healthy like nine figure business. And the game we try to play is we're trying to put the customer truly first. and be wherever they are and think about, I'll give you a perfect example. If you notice one thing about True Classic, unlike pretty much any other clothing brand, we don't put our logos on anything. And I don't know if you've ever wondered why.

37:29Ben Diamond:Yeah, I've just, yeah, never, because it's a pretty, I get it, people are getting tattoos and it's still not on a t-shirt.

37:33Maxx Blank:And it's like when you talk to our customers and you ask them, do you want to wear the logo on your garments? The answer is no. So what do we do? We create a product that they love wearing every day. And that means we don't put our logo on. Mind you, it's probably in direct conflict to our commercial interests as a brand to turn everybody into a walking advertiser. I mean, this shirt, we've sold over 30 million of them. Think about how many true classicers are out there in the world. People might not know. And that is still fine with us because we're not here about, it's not about us. It's about them.

38:02Maxx Blank:And if they don't want the logo, we don't care. Same goes about the fit. Same goes about the feel. Same goes about the price. So because we're trying to serve people with great clothing that they love wearing every day, charging them a reasonable, affordable price point, obsessing over the fit, obsessing over the field, I believe that our brand is like a multi-billion dollar brand in, like it can be the next gap, the next whatever, Haines, the next unique, whatever it is that you have in mind, I believe we have the potential to do that. And when you start thinking about, okay, how do we obsess over our product?

38:34Maxx Blank:How do we make ourselves available in as many distribution channels as possible and as many countries as possible? It's just a matter of time. And then you throw AI as the ultimate amplifier. and I think we can accelerate that path quite a bit.

38:48Ben Diamond:And how do you see Triple Whale playing into those growth goals most effectively? I think it's giving that support, that infrastructure, that directionality, the actions needed to actually allow operators and founders and entrepreneurs to fulfill that. So like whether it's the data integration we're missing over here, the context we're missing over here, how can we figure out the proper jobs to be done that are going to help amplify that and get there quicker? specifically with AI because this is the ultimate amplifier. It really is. I wanted to ask you a question that I kind of asked in the car that I was interested in because I'm hearing, we talk with thousands of DTC operators all the time through the newsletter and podcast and I'm hearing rumblings of something called the SaaSpocalypse of something where more and more brands are looking for ways that they can vibe code or that they can actually create their own tool stacks in a way.

39:38Ben Diamond:And I'm curious how you think about that trend at Triple Whale and how you guard against it, I guess. We actually don't guard against it. We have the data. We have hours and hours and a huge team and a lot of history of how do you normalize data, how do you make it consistent. It's not very simple to do that. Also, when it comes down to customer journey data, this is a very complex thing. If you're going to Vibe code on a Lovable or a Riplet, at the end of the day, you do need to know these things. And so to think that anyone can just kind of get up and started making their own apps, it's not as easy as it looks.

40:15Ben Diamond:It's unbelievable when you start doing it. But to put something out to customers that you can rely on operationally, you need someone who can maintain it, so on and so forth. But actually, you can VibeCode almost the exact same experiences with Mobi right now. And it's extraordinarily empowering. You could, if you wanted to, you need some validation for sure, because it's not, I wouldn't just say go VibeCode an inventory app, but actually you could right now. You need someone on the team that knows what they're doing to actually deploy that. And the data pool too, right? The amount of data across all the different brands.

40:49Ben Diamond:Yeah, we look at it from, we have the data network, which is kind of what, how can AI get smarter by being in the network, which is something that we are unlocking right now for brands. And all that together, we're not seeing anyone who's vibe coding triple. Well, maybe they're vibe coding the summary page. Yeah, pop-up app or something like that. We have an MCP. You can go and take this stuff out if you want. But our sort of long-term is the data network and being the orchestration of AI and that data.

41:18Maxx Blank:I think that this is a time to move a bit from, if you will, SaaS being software as a service to RAS being results as a service. And I've heard that term thrown around and I love it because it's exactly what people ultimately care about. You want an outcome. You want the business results. However you get them, you can bring them in the form of an agency with humans. You can bring them in a form of software with AI agents. You can bring them in a form of consulting of something that has never been heard of. But the bottom line is you are in partnership in business with other partners because they are driving business results.

41:52Maxx Blank:So in my mind, the low-grade software has been completely commoditized. It's out. You can create anything you want like this. We have rebranded the D2C acronym to the Direct Tennis Club, a bunch of us. Kitsch and Ridge and us and Thrive Cosmetics, all the guys, we play tennis on Sundays. And we wanted to start playing together. So I vibe coded this Liveball app so we can keep score on how everybody's performing when you go play Liveball on Sundays. It took me literally, I don't know, 30 minutes. You don't need those types of apps anymore. And before you know it, it's saved on everybody's phones and everybody has logins through Google and whatnot.

42:33Maxx Blank:and I'm not a tech-inclined person. I'm decently technical, but I've never developed anything before that. So that, to me, as a software, is completely obsolete. If you have little features, oh, it can do a cross-sell, an up-sell, and whatnot, before you know it, you've recreated that. Then there's really complicated pieces to the infrastructure that, and by the way, no offense to triple anybody, there might be a time where that also, they will have to keep up-leveling their game. At the end of the day, it is results.

43:02Ben Diamond:It's outcomes. You need to drive outcomes measurable.

43:05Maxx Blank:They will have to keep elevating and create better features and better functionality to drive better results, cheaper, faster, to stay in business. But it just requires you to keep reinventing yourselves. You cannot be with some basic SaaS and expect to make a living.

43:18Ben Diamond:It amplifies everything, right? Do you guys have any bold predictions for the future of commerce or e-commerce that you'd like to get out here? I'm always interested in where AI is going to play into the shopping role, whether people are going to, you know, eventually have a more persistent AI in their lives that allows them to interface the complex, crazy world in different ways. This is my, I've had a hypothesis on the theory for years that we're going to, the next trillion dollar product will be like an AI butler who takes in all your personal data and allows you to monetize your personal data where it's appropriate, get, you know, get discounts from the right brands because of the right loyalty or whatever.

43:56Ben Diamond:And actually it knows you better than you know yourself, or it knows like it can be like, sir, that man doesn't have the best intentions for you. I can tell like a butler might do or whatever. But at the same time, like, I don't know that people's fundamental behavior of like going to websites and searching for things like they're not, that's not going to change. They're going to want to do that still. Any predictions on where this is all going?

44:14Maxx Blank:It's a great question. I can tell you, I have like a more philosophical prediction. And I feel like, you know, life is going to be looking just completely differently. It's easy to kind of like think about it, but it's hard to predict exactly where the world is going. But in my mind, we're all going to be searching for like greater meaning and play more tennis hopefully maybe more tennis but money would lose its like grip the way it used to be and people are going to scarcity maybe post scarcity and all of those things which i think you can listen to elon probably has a pretty healthy perspective on like where he envisioned the world going and i'm i prescribe to that the on the shopping side i feel like all of the surfaces are going to be completely redefined so to me a website yes there might be a website as a destination or an app as a destination but I don't think that we're going to be interacting with the UX, UI, the old ways that we are doing right now.

45:06Maxx Blank:And so you have to think about, ultimately people would want to find a product that they want, whenever they want, make a few choices, ideally as few clicks as possible, the most frictionless as possible. And you almost want to create this environment where you're reading the customer's mind based on whatever it is that you know about them and get them out of there before they even entered. And I do feel like that way, if you think about the Amazon experience, I think they've made a lot of really good moves where you go on Amazon and sometimes I open Amazon and I'm out of there. I'm not kidding.

45:34Maxx Blank:In like 20 seconds and it's done. And before you know it, it might be an Alexa. And before you know it, it might be a Tesla Optimus that takes care of all the grocery shopping and all the replenishment in the house and figures out what you need. And oh, maybe your shirt don't look so good. So time to like replan. You like True Classic and you're a size large. And you typically wear, I see you every day. You love black and gray and white. let me get those. And before you know it, a lot of those choices kind of go away because at the end of the day, humans are lazy. We don't like to work very hard.

46:06Maxx Blank:It's in our DNA to preserve energy. It's in our DNA to simplify. And so those tools are going to basically feed this laziness that human beings have to make life easier.

46:18Ben Diamond:Yep. The best programmers are lazy, I've heard, because they will find the solution that makes things easier. Yeah, and that's again a feature. It's not a bug.

46:25Maxx Blank:We're meant as - To conserve energy. To conserve energy. So all these areas where we are currently exerting energy and can be recouped, we're going to find those paths. And so you think about it, like how can I get you that path of least resistance through my channel? How do I do that? I don't know exactly what it's going to look like, but it's definitely going in that direction.

46:45Ben Diamond:I think that's a great chat. It reminds me of Naval Ravikant, who resonated with me. He was talking about how the modern person is supposed to behave. And it's this idea of like hustle culture, of like you're grinding all the time. He was sort of like, no, we're supposed to be more like lions, where we're supposed to, like, laze around, and then we're supposed to get very obsessed, you know, get very intense about something. Go with your crew. Go with a very strong burst of, like, effort and energy, and then go back to lazing around and musing philosophically or whatever.

47:12Maxx Blank:I love Naval. I think his saying was, hunt as a lion, don't graze like a cow, or something like that. And I love his podcast.

47:19Ben Diamond:Highly recommend if anybody does not listen.

47:23Maxx Blank:This guy is unbelievable.

47:24Ben Diamond:I think it. And I think, yeah, just this, this, the age of the individual contributor with, with unlimited resources and potential. So if you're out there, just get going, just embrace it. You can't, you can't be a Lennie, right? You can't, you can't destroy the spinning jennies as they used to do back in the day. Nice. Well, I want to thank you guys so much for this, this podcast. It was an excellent time to talk with you.

47:45Maxx Blank:Thank you for coming to True Classic and making it happen here.

47:50Ben Diamond:We got the Whaley's tomorrow. We do have the Whaley's tomorrow. Excited about the Whaley's. This is your.

47:53Maxx Blank:Any spoilers you want to drop here? You'll have to wait. You'll have to wait. You'll have to wait. All right.

47:59Ben Diamond:All right. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

48:07Ben Diamond:Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're not a subscriber to our newsletter, you can do that right now at directtoconsumeralloneword.co. I'm Eric Dick, and this has been the D2C Podcast. We'll see you next time.