Ep 586: Laura Cantor: Digital Transformation, AI Collaboration, and Why We're All Failing Calculus Together

22:47It's not about like maybe there was some friction between partners and the buy side of the brand side previously or some competitiveness. Now it's more like we learn and grow together and depend on each other. So I would say talking about your partners on a post might have been like, you wouldn't want to say that, right? A year ago, you don't want to give away your business advantage. But now we are all partners in this together. We have really no other choice. We learn from people and we get, as an employee or an advocate of my brand, I get benefits by signaling that I'm ahead of the game. This is who I'm working with.

23:28These are what I'm doing. Come follow me. Come understand and we learn together. And just as I put my knowledge out there, I've learned so much from other people also as my peers in the industry.

23:40Laura Cantor:Super relevant. And it's literally what we've done here at D2C and our agency, Pilot House, right? We created a media company to talk about the space, to talk about e-commerce, to talk about performance marketing. And then we intersect with Pilot House in all these ways. And by the time someone reads our newsletter five times, they're like, oh, I should take a meeting with Pilot House. I think it's really exemplary for other brands to look at. I look at all the other brands that are mastering channels, whether it's TikTok shops, you know, figuring out the content that resonates with your audience.

24:06Laura Cantor:And it doesn't have to always be about your product. It can be tertiary or sort of run alongside your product like a lifestyle. So with these sort of topics, this idea of creating media for a brand and creating stick-to-itiveness, how are you translating that into what you're doing at New York & Co.? I think I get a lot of benefits from being heard and speaking about the particular challenges that we're facing. It's not enough to just work alone and not talk about what those challenges are and how you're fixing that. I think it's really important that we share more about some of the things that we're going through so that we can get access, whether it's beta-ing something that's new, a new tool comes along.

24:50I'm now connected to you and other people. Likewise, my network grows. I actually become a more valuable employee and professional. And I bring a lot of value to my company by amplifying what we're doing. So I think price is always a consideration working with vendors. I think it's really a lot of people are looking to save. So working together with a vendor to spread their message is always another tool in the toolbox to facilitate that as well.

25:21Laura Cantor:So did you speak at NRF? I didn't speak at NRF. It's a very large conference and it is really a retail conference. I particularly speak at places that are more focused just on D2C, which is my specialty, but I did go to some events and I heard a lot about what's happening. And the other key topic, well, the key topic is AI, eye, right? And agentic protocols and all the announcements that were made. And so that, you know, that again, further, I think why this post resonated even further was because, you know, when a vendor talks robot about their product, it is really hard to understand what it does today.

26:07Does it solve a problem? And I think we're at the point where everyone knows AI. Like last year, maybe we were just talking about it. It's like, this is coming or this is what's possible. And now people are like, okay, well, what does it actually do? What are the practical implications of this AI and how does it solve my problem today? We need more proof in order to, you know, apply it. We're done talking in the future. And I think vendors still talk that speak. They still talk it like this product, you know, can do X, Y, and Z and all these amazing things. And it really goes over the buy side head, right?

26:44Because they're like, well, I'm literally here, hands-on keys in the weeds, solving my problems every day. And so when I spoke about, you know, a tool that I was using, it wasn't about what it could do or what's possible. It was like, this is the application I used it for, and this is how it solved my problem. And I think that's why it was like, it was heard in a new way.

27:05Laura Cantor:And I think the video, I'm just on the post right now, and I'll make sure I link to it in the show notes, the video or the gif that you attach that literally shows agents testing all aspects of your site and color matching various things. It really just gets the idea home right away. I had a guy, I worked in a previous business and I had a guy that was trying to teach me how to make LinkedIn posts that go viral because it's like the platform itself is hungry for content. But it's so easy to put out blah content. I think with yours, it's like because it solves a problem, because it's written well, it's of who you are and I think the brand that you're with as well, like the fact that you're leading this digital transformation and it starts with a confession.

27:46Laura Cantor:We did something a little nuts right before Black Friday, Cyber Monday. I'm just trying to, yeah, the anatomy of a post. I think everyone should go look at it because it's gone crazy. And again, none of that was really planned or really thought out. That's what makes it so shocking. And that's why it shows me a lot of indications of the kinds of things we're talking about and themes that we're seeing for this year, because that 12 second video, right? It's 12 seconds, has like almost like 30 days worth of watch times, like hours upon hours of watch time. So it shows you like there's definitely this interest in understanding like, oh, this is AI and I can use it today, right?

28:24I can go and figure out something that not only like maybe makes me look good as a, you know, a contributor, but also it like literally takes the pressure off because I'll repeat this because it's been said a million times, we're all being tasked to do more with less, right? So if that is the task at hand, you're going to be looking for not necessarily shortcuts, but any way possible that you don't have to upend your entire framework or get into a year's exploratory about some kind of tool that may or may not achieve something or other. You want something that you You can plug and play in correctly today and show up tomorrow at the meeting and be like, look, I found all these issues and then I'm continuously running this.

29:12So we're good. There's one less thing to worry about. So that's definitely had to spark the hunger for that.

29:18Laura Cantor:How do you handle it organizationally? Because it's such a decentralized movement. Any one of your employees could find a tool that could be a game changer. Do you guys think about it more as sort of a centralized organization where you test things very systematically through the core channels? Or is a lot of your team empowered to kind of go out and find things? We're really empowered. It's like the gateway drug with the AI. We started with AI content. It worked really well. So it's like, if that's going to work well, what else could work well? Now, we have a really great structure and framework and process that keeps us from overreaching ourselves or, you know, possibly going into like a harmful territory and taking away from the impact that we could be having.

30:05But it's one of the things I like about, you know, more agile organizations is, you know, there's less steps to hop through and more the timeframe is shortened. I think everyone will compile it and do things. We just have a shortened timeframe around it that makes it less of like a burden for somebody in the organization to champion something like and take, you know, full responsibility for something because there's just less pressure around it.

30:32Laura Cantor:I wonder also just back to your post, if it was the fact that you didn't actually share the company in the normal text, you use a hack where you ask people to ask for it, and then you give them below. And that just makes them comment. I wonder if that really helped fuel the algorithm as well. Yeah. And, you know, that was, that was, that was tragically hard to, to keep up with, but that completely unplanned, completely unplanned. It just was like, that makes most sense. Um, and then, you know, LinkedIn has like, they don't let you automate responses. There's a lot of things around LinkedIn that keep it from, you know, being able to do that.

31:08And that could have been part of the strategy there. But again, like the idea was like, it was really an off the cuff post, honestly. And, you know, put me in like a center of a conversation, you know, get to meet people way outside of my scope, certainly not famous by any means, but it allows me to get access that I think is really a differentiator in what it means to be a professional, it's just not enough to do your job. You need to have like a, I wouldn't call it personal brand that seems too light for what this is. It's some type of channel that you have that is almost like a safety net in a way too, for what's either a coming, what could happen.

32:00Yeah. Like a lifeline. Yes, absolutely. Because again, nothing is guaranteed and the changes we see now could be accelerated quite soon. We don't know what's happening with the agentic commerce. It's in play, but it's really hard to understand the forecasts around that and where brands may go. So I think of it more as like not trying to go viral or doing things to make things viral, but showing like the real, you know, being a little bit vulnerable, I think is better now, like then we're more accepted because you have to be like, we're all failing the calculus class. together. We are, this is AI.

32:40We are in one giant study group and it's not like we should or can necessarily hang out on our own Island and think that we're going to conquer these massive undertakings and shifts in, in the way that we do business. So.

32:58Laura Cantor:It's funny, my brother, actually, he just, this is news to the podcast, but he was just let go after nine and a half years at Shopify. But for the past year or the year before he was like, He was sort of telling me that the AI revolution was so aggressive at Shopify that there was like this grace period where people were getting their jobs done faster. They were being more productive. And that was great because they were looking great. But then the year flipped over and it was like, that's expected now. The performance gains that we're able to make on AI are getting like baked into the models.

33:28Laura Cantor:And so it's like it sort of really does behoove you to create a channel where you're both sending and receiving intelligence about AI, I guess, right? Well, that brings like the third phase is that, you know, if everything is created on the back end by AI, then everything is checked and dealt with like what a human would manually do with AI. Then where stands the person that used to do anything in the company, which, you know, as these things get more complex, I feel like this conversation has kind of flattened a little bit because, man, we need people to make these decisions. This is really, really hard to unpack, but I've heard also at NRF, another key theme was the idea of AQ, the ability, other than IQ, EQ.

34:19What is AQ? Hold on, you have to cut this part out. Adaptability quotient. I forget.

34:25Laura Cantor:Adaptability quotient. Okay, I like it. Okay. So that's another thing. Like what I've learned about it, it's like the ability to unlearn as quick as you learn. And that like another thing with this post maybe was just like, we don't know shit. We are struggling. Here's a tool. We got it up and running immediately. It solved a big problem really quickly for very little cost and very little work. That's an adaptability move, right? So that's like the ability to just try something different, to know what to try in the first place and then to get the next iteration, what that might look like so that we can repeat those wins over and over again.

35:06So that I think is a core skill for what will be needed moving forward.

35:13Laura Cantor:It's to almost forget the way that things have been done always when there are these new ways to do things. Yes, and to be open, you have to have a little bit of openness to some type of risks, yes, But being early is really important too. When I go to dinners or conferences and I hear brands that are definitely a little bit bigger or have larger, more complex organizational structures, what they talk about now is what I've been talking about 18 months ago, maybe 10 months ago, maybe six months ago. And it worries me because we've already been through that arc, right? We've already made those mistakes and already learned those learnings and have applied them.

35:55And you're just now questioning whether you should be doing this or not doing this. And that question might circle around for another few months. And that is also where that AQ might need to come into play is we're going to need people who could come in organizations and take on that feedback loop and shorten it up a bit.

36:18Laura Cantor:Are you planning your next post or are there other tools? Well, this is going to be one of my next posts. So that's the, I wanted to bring this up. I went to a dinner with the vendor that, you know, I spoke about Zent, Arthur Pentecoste, he's the founder and it was also not planned. We ended up sitting next to each other after this viral post. Can you believe that? That's wild. Someone who had commented on the post was there too. And he's the head of digital at a very, very well-known brand. And I'm friendly with him. And so, you know, he was like, yes, I know you because of Laura's post. And he said, no, we talked, you know, about six months ago.

36:57He's like, I had a call with you and I had no idea what your company did. And he's like, when I saw Laura's post and immediately understood what you did and then called you up and we had a second demo. And then they ended up buying the Zent product and have consider it one of the key initiatives that have driven growth over the last few months. That's why the post went viral is because I do think one other theme, and this is not coming out of NRF, this is coming out of me. And I do a lot of calls with vendors and work very closely with vendors. That's part of a job scope now is really understanding the vendor ecosystem is simplification.

37:39Everything is so complex. If you can simplify something and like even just name the problem for what it is, you're just going to resonate. And I don't, and it's very, it's going to be very, very hard as new AI products come out. It's going, like there might be a giant disconnect between what tools can actually do and what people knowing that that can solve their problems. So that was a pure example like that I got firsthand and that, that happened last night. So.

38:06Laura Cantor:Are you taking any commission? You need to get, you need to get on this, you need to get on the Zenit payroll. You know, another lever in growing your career, just as we grow an e-commerce site is giving back and supporting people and bringing people with you as you grow, you know? So I do like to support people that are doing great things. It brings me more tools and more great things and more connections. And I, yeah, I do think there are additional revenue streams for employees, you know, as I don't know, very few people are getting great raises or bonuses, you know, just to have a job is like a bonus, right?

38:42So I had my own brand, I had my own agency. So I have a more enterprising approach to having a career than a normal person maybe who's maybe taken all those steps and risen the ranks. That's another reason I post on LinkedIn and do podcasts. I didn't have formal executive training, how to present and talk and show what I do. I just do it. And I didn't really have anyone to answer to. And this position, this was stage of my career, which I love. I really do love being in an organization because I feel so impactful. And that really drives the enthusiasm and the will to continue to break through and get results.

39:25I think there is a way for, you know, people and B2B and vendors and SaaS and all of us to benefit off each other, whether it's monetarily, whether it's networking, whether it's, you know, when, you know, you need a job, a vendor will be the first person to step in and say, who do you need? I know everybody, you know?

39:47Laura Cantor:And as you say, with Zent, you know, It's solving a problem that was maybe created by AI because you have all these images, you have all these things that are out there, and then it also becomes the solution to the problem, which is really cool that maybe even a lot of people don't even know they have. That's the other part of it. Someone reading that post might be like, oh, my God, do I have 500 plus mistakes? Yes. It's embarrassing. It's all the embarrassing stuff. You don't want to admit that you misspelled the word turtleneck or something, and your customers are seeing that every day and thinking, who's working there?

40:16you know or I mean and to that extent like when we get into cleaning up our feeds getting discovered in chat and Gemini and whether when that becomes paid all those things are also going to need to be cleaned up anyways like the better alignment you have with your images and text and checkout and promo codes working and all those things you're going to have you know that much more leverage as the channel mix changes entirely.

40:47Laura Cantor:I love that also that the solution to like, because people worry with AI that we're, that will become less human or that it'll take the roles of humans. Hopefully it frees us up to do more human things. And what you're describing is humans connecting and staying connected. And that's one of the things that was one of the reasons we launched our agency community business was, you know, we wanted to focus on things that like bring people together. And I think that's really what posts on LinkedIn, especially when that go as viral as yours really do. Because it's like, now you get all these people like, hey, I tried that tool you tried.

41:15Laura Cantor:That was great. Here's a tool that I tried. They'll send that to you. You'll just have this ongoing dialogue of potentially thousands of people who are in this mastermind with you now based on that post. That's it. It's a people business now, right? Yeah. Have you noticed that there's so much more in-person things that happen post-COVID? A lot of people work from home, A. And even if you don't, you're going to need a group or an army, let's say, of people to support your learnings, to give you that confidence to go forward and test anything. There's too much at stake. Too much could go wrong. I need someone to open up their entire tech stack and tell me everything they're paying, right?

42:01And this is the kind of relationships that are built brick by brick. So the viral post was the first connections were all people that I literally have had dinner with, have been to my, these are, I've really worked on this and it wasn't intentional either. It was a necessity to get up to speed and to do things that get results, not just to play in the retail space and look nice and say, I checked off these boxes. But to really turn something around takes a lot of institutional knowledge that was a group project, 100%. And I think when the comments started rolling in from those first connections, it provided that, I guess, fire to let that LinkedIn algorithm throw it out to so many more people.

42:50We're talking hundreds of thousands of impressions. A QA agent isn't that deep. You go on LinkedIn and you see, I had this amazing epiphany in meditation or someone did something incredible. Or something super, super cringe. This was very boring. This was like, we have a QA tool. And yet it struck a chord with the pain that's going on right now. People trying to solve an impossible problem is how to grow when you have less. And it's almost like relearning everything that you used to know.

43:30Laura Cantor:It's funny. We've done events. We've done a bunch of events. And my friend Brock, who runs FrostBuddy, was talking to me the other day. And he was like, you know, I'm still in touch with four of the people who I went to that event with on like a weekly or monthly basis. They formed like just an impromptu like mastermind WhatsApp group or whatever. And it's just and it was actually the only event. I think he's been to a few now, but that was his first event he'd ever been to. And he got so much value out of it just through the human connections that you make. Like, I always wonder if other industries are the same as this.

43:56Laura Cantor:Like, do insurance salesmen, salespeople. I wonder that. Do they share hacks like this? Are they much of the rising tide raises all boats as we are? Because I feel lucky to be in an industry that is open to this. I'd like to say it's our industry because I really love that part. It's not like it's like a family, but it's kind of like your friends and your peers and your family. It's all mixed up in one. And I think that too, what is it like when you go to the banking conference or the gambling conference or the healthcare conferences? I think the task at hand is so technically challenging. It's strategy.

44:33It's brand. It's touch points. It's really analytical. It's data. It's lots and lots and lots of data, right? It's also, you know, somewhat like of a zeitgeist thing where luck comes into play, like something ticks off and suddenly you're the star, you know, viral product. You know, this isn't very predictable in a lot of ways, retail. It's a little bit of an art, a little bit of a science. And it's a small world too. Like it's not, maybe not as large as other industries as well. And it's fun. You have to admit, there's something more fun about e-commerce in particular, the G2Z environment. The fact that even 10 years ago, a challenger could come in or an incumbent and it could take over a large brand.

45:20And we saw that at the first leave, you know, that was the whole idea. And the premise of Shopify is that anyone can be a major brand or -

45:29Laura Cantor:Arm the rebels. Yes. And that, you know, if you have the spirit of an entrepreneur inside of you, here's your tool and go. And, you know, I did it too. And to see the results of that with your own eyes is so inspiring. And today it's even less of a barrier of entry because anyone can get distribution, photos, copy text, ads, even organic channels that didn't exist before and now chat. It's only amplified itself, yet it's become so much more complex. It used to be so much easier. You just set up a Facebook ad, set up your Shopify store, open your shingle and go. You just had to show up. Now I'm in it.

46:13I'm in the enterprise. I'm in the side where, whoa, these are hard, complex problems to solve. Who would ever want to start their own or go off on their own? Maybe I'll feel different in a year or two, but their opportunity is just so big still. Even though we've seen layoffs and tariffs and economy, like sensitivity and whatnot, I think there'll be the next round of gigantic wins within one to two years based on what's possible.

46:47Laura Cantor:I feel so grateful to be in this growth part of the economy in these challenging times. And I find everything you're saying very inspirational. That's why we're launching D2C Dines, which is our D2C dinner series. We did our first one in Vancouver last week. We're not announcing where we're coming yet, but it will be in New York. We'll be all over the place to join us for Adidas C Dine. So you can put that on your calendar as soon as I - Yes, definitely recommend it. I haven't been yet, but it sounds fantastic. And I'm sure you're great at knowing what topics and things to ask. And that's so important because those conversations are gold mine.

47:23And I do want to leave too with the thought that it's pretty depressing out there, despite all these changes, like I said, you know, I do fundamentally believe that humans, they do need to consume in some way, like to consume things is to be alive, is to grow. You know, that's what I've always been attracted to in apparel per se, is that you really can change who you are with your outfit. Sometimes I don't show that part of myself, but I do, You can be someone who you're not today with a change of that, your look, your feel. And I've always been attracted to that sentiment. And I'm just so curious to see how that works out in the next few years.

48:11So I'm really excited to be on this ride with you. And I really appreciate this time together.

48:17Laura Cantor:Yeah, me too. I always think of the children's book, Going on a Bear Hunt, when I think about humanity. because there's all these obstacles that they've got to contend with. And every time they come to a big obstacle, they say, can't go under it, got to go through it. And I feel like that's where humanity is right now. And I feel like humans go through things by consuming. So I feel like we've created this engine that involves consumption, that it isn't always pretty, but as an Iroquois shaman told me one time, we're right where we need to be. So it's hard to believe sometimes when you look at the news, but that's what I take heart in.

48:52Yes, and if we can turn these challenges and problems into our next opportunity, that's probably the first place to look is what's broken, what's not working? And is that the actual thing that we can solve? Like that, or not how to solve it, but that's the solution right there, right?

49:07Laura Cantor:And then make a LinkedIn post about it. And then make a LinkedIn post about it, let the world know. And then, you know, hopefully sometime when you need a little help, you come by a post or a friend and get it right back to you, so. Amazing. Well, I will keep my eyes peeled on your LinkedIn feed for your next viral post, as should everyone. I'm glad that LinkedIn brought us together for this great chat today. Thanks again. People, I guess I'll just put your LinkedIn link on this podcast. You know what, if you want to follow me, yes, please. I would love that. And I'd love, you know, I have and always was, you know, attracted to and get maybe technologies or ways of doing things that are a little earlier than, you know, you typically see.

49:49So I hope to be more of that voice and share my journey in a very challenging environment and be supportive to those around me who are literally helping. We're all helping each other as we go.

50:03Laura Cantor:Last question. You mentioned NROF. Are there any other big events on your calendar that you're excited about? Yeah. So I will be speaking about UX and merchandising, another key component to conversion, which is getting more and more important as costs of acquisition rise at E-Tail West, which is one of my favorite, favorite places to go in this industry. And it's also beautiful because it's in Palm Springs and it's a really great place to meet people. And then I think after comes Shop Talk, which is a can't miss opportunity. I'll be going there. I'll be at Shop Talk this year again. Shop Talk, that is a lot of fun.

50:44Laura Cantor:Vegas is just always fun. Vegas is really fun. And it's one big party and it's really great and you learn a lot. And again, get to connect with the peers and vendors that you don't always get to see. And then, you know, Commerce Next comes up in New York, always a great time. And the lead. So that's where I'll be in the coming months. And hopefully I catch you somewhere at a dinner or an event soon. Awesome. Thanks, Laura. This is great. Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it.

51:19Laura Cantor:Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're not a subscriber to our newsletter, you can do that right now at directtoconsumeralloneword.co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the D2C podcast. We'll see you next time.