Ep 608: She Hit 100K Customers Without Running a Single Ad | Roo & You

21:07Helen Smith:I was also really, really fortunate that one of my founder friends, he made an introduction for us to WB. And like that was like Harry Potter was like at the top of my list. We are huge Potterheads in our family. And that was like the top dream collab. And so when we did that, I was like so excited. And everybody being so like excited to work with us encouraged me more and made me more confident each time I approached somebody else. and the way I always like go about it is everybody does the same thing when it comes to partnerships right like it's always like really in your face partnerships and like that works so well for like smaller products or clothing bedding like things like that but when you have a piece of furniture you can't just have like super in your face logo slapped on all over the place because you can't put it away so I wanted to create something where you know the child recognizes the characters and is excited to see it but the parents are always like also really excited to have it in their house and they're not like oh my god I need to put it away somebody's coming over I don't like how it looks in my house so that's kind of like how I approached it with all of our partners like I want to keep what your brand is but I want to like meld it in kind of with what we try to do of like making it really aesthetic to fit into homes I was going to ask about that because I'm sure there are a lot of people that are buying this to start with, or they're at least justifying it because it does look good in their homes or it looks unique in their homes.

22:38And not everyone has a playroom, I guess, right? So I imagine you could be louder with some of the collabs if a product is going in a playroom that's just for the kids. But so often we're on top of each other. And there really isn't a lot of distinction between playrooms and rooms in parents' house with young children.

22:56Helen Smith:No, there isn't. And like some of it is because, you know, if they're in the playroom, maybe they're not in the same area that you're going to be in doing, like maybe making dinner. You're like doing some work or something like that and being able to have something that stays in your like your main area that you can use. I think if you can do it, why not? Like then you're always still in like the same area. And like the way our house is, is like you walk in and there's like, you know, the formal sitting area, then the dining room. And our formal sitting area up until probably I think it was a year ago was just foam.

23:28Helen Smith:And my mom was like, like people are going to come over and they're just going to see foam here. Like it's kid stuff. And I'm like, I have a brand where I make this, but also this is our house and we have to use it how it works for us. And like, why wouldn't I have like the foam there? Because like the thing with the foam is I made it all so that when you put it away, you're not using it. you could kind of set it up like its own little mini living room for the kids. So every piece works together to create like a side table or an ottoman or just slide underneath the couch itself. With these collabs, are they, I don't want to say one way, but are they, you know, you're licensing the images, putting it onto your products.

24:05Is there ever a reciprocal aspect where they're promoting your product with their, you know, with their licensing deal to any of their audience? Is there a way that these partnerships grow you incrementally to their audience? Or is it just through then advertising this imagery on ads and in your retention program that you kind of expand your market through these partnerships?

24:24Helen Smith:So that was the thing that I had to learn. In the beginning, for me, it was like kind of like stars in my eyes. It was like, whoa, yes. You want to work with us? You want to work with us? Yes, yes, yes. And I learned very quickly, like one of the things was like making sure that we are getting like that support from the brand. Because although they are allowing us to use their IP, we are also advertising for them by having this product that is for their fans. So they are like they earn from it. We earn from it. Like it's just like, you know, and the way I see it is like it has to be a two-way partnership.

25:00Helen Smith:And it kind of depends on the brand and what you'll get. And one of the things that I always ask now is what will the support look like from your guys' side? and if we'll get any. And I think that's always really important to me now that I have a little more experience in it. It's like, that's something that we want to have as part of this. And I don't want it to be a one-way thing because I just don't think like, I don't think it's good for anybody that way because then you're paying for it, you're doing all the work and you get to use the IP. But like, where's the partnership portion? And I think it's really interesting which brands are like gun-ho for it and which ones are not and then it's it kind of took me by surprise when some weren't but like like a brand like wb amazing like they are so collaborative they've been one of the best partners that we have had and you know our longest partnership and like working with like the mood bug team for blippy and coco melon incredible like the way that they were so supportive in everything that we did.

26:08Helen Smith:I was like, that's really, really cool. And I'm like, that is somebody that I would want to support, not just like from this side, but like from like, you know, a consumer side, knowing that they are such like, such a good company, such nice people. And they are about like, working with everybody and like helping everybody, like kind of having that two way, instead of being kind of like one sided. I imagine for IP like Baby Shark or Cocomelon or these ones that are that are based on like I bet it's going to be easier to get a two way partnership with, you know, IP like that versus like Batman in a way like Batman's probably not, you know, writing Ruin You into his comic books, for instance.

26:48But when you've got it with Baby Shark or these brands that are focused more on children, there's probably a better opportunity for collaboration. Yeah.

26:55Helen Smith:So one of the things we always look for is just a way to support and announce the partnership on social media, on the channels that they're on and doing things like that, emails, giveaways. So those are the things that usually I'm like, I want to do with our partners and hope that they'll be on board for. But yeah, I would love to find a partner where we can like do like something like super, super custom, like with like, let's say it's the cartoon and it has like the Joey inside of her something. But yeah, I think right now it's mainly just social media, marketing, things like that, whitelisting ads.

27:39Helen Smith:And some have been so amazing about things like that and having our ads running on their own main accounts. What gets harder operationally when you enter this licensing world? Again, it's something that is more based on the brand, how long it takes for approvals. I think when it's like a brand that has their like guidelines, like super structured and they give it to you from the beginning, you know what you can do, what you can't do, all that stuff. It goes by so quickly and the teams are usually pretty, pretty quick about giving you the feedback. But then there's like somewhere it takes forever and they're like really, really specific about things they want to see and they don't want to see.

28:21Helen Smith:And, you know, they might not be more open to our feedback. Like we did work with one where I'm like, I don't think this is a good idea. And it should be like this. And, yeah, we tested it out to prove a point. So, but, yeah, I'm like, you have to be open to a little bit of change when it comes to this. And being able to kind of, you know, make it work. But I think like it's that working with some like a company that has really strict rules about what they want to see. I think that's probably been the hardest part and kind of where a lot of the stalling happens when it comes to this. Is there anything smaller brands should know before chasing partnerships too early in their life cycle?

29:04Helen Smith:Only do it strictly for marketing, especially when you're smaller. I think like that is, that's the one thing that I learned very quickly is that it is great for marketing and it's great for building brand trust. But I would say don't go into it being like, okay, this is going to like make me rocket ship and I'm going to be like, you know, rolling around and money or something like that. Because there is so many things that go into it. So yeah, great for marketing and building trust though. Great for marketing, but you have to have your product market fit. You can't rely on it to like, oh, this will once I have Batman on it, it'll really sink into my audience or whatever, right?

29:43Helen Smith:Absolutely not. Yeah, I think like a lot of people do view it that way. They're like, you know, the brand will carry it. But like I said, they're not always going to be, you know, supporting you in that way to kind of get your name out there. So then you have to make sure that who you're working with is going to work with your audience. Because if it doesn't, and you're also not getting any outside help or any kind of eyes on your brand from their side, then it doesn't always work out the best. You just have to make sure it works for your business. So it can't just be like, this is what's doing really great right now, and we should work with them.

30:20I feel like you've put yourself out there a lot in the past year or past couple years. I think you were on quite a roadshow when I met you at Shop Talk. You've received some great accolades and recognition from some publications. What's that been like this year when you've, and what have you maybe gotten from putting yourself out there more?

30:37Helen Smith:I will say I tend to be a little more shy, except in our group where I'm very comfortable. But it's helped me build my confidence in like being able to put myself out there a little more. But a lot of like the accolades and things like that definitely like more of a confidence mystery. Because like, you know, I feel like as founders, we're always like online looking at other founders, following each other, like what's going on. And there's some that are like so, so good at talking about where they are and how they're doing. And, you know, just kind of like building, like really building in public.

31:14Helen Smith:And you do a lot of that comparing and you have a lot of that imposter syndrome. And I think that, you know, for me, that's been really, really hard. And one of the things that's kind of kept me from doing a lot of things. But yeah, just this past year, kind of putting myself out there, putting myself in these uncomfortable positions. I think it's helped build my confidence because once I start talking to them, it's just like, okay, like we're not so different. And, you know, we are kind of in the same place, having the same kind of issues. But I feel like not enough people talk about all the things that are going on behind the business and all the hard times and talking about all the good.

31:52And then, you know, then you're like, oh, man, why am I dealing with all this and nobody else's what's going on? So were you able to receive from this from the community, from putting yourself out there? Were you able to receive any really meaningful advice or about maybe how to handle the tariffs or some of the challenges that you've had this year?

32:11Helen Smith:Yeah. More just commiseration. Maybe more commiseration. consideration um but yeah I like kind of I'm always looking for who's talking about the things that maybe I'm going through people that I can connect with or like a brand that I'd really look up to and reach out and we'll just honestly just be like how are you handling this and when it came to tariffs I was like okay who do I know that is shipping from Canada into the U.S. and that might actually respond to me or whatever and you know just like I did with licensing I just send out some messages like hey how's it going do you want to be friends so yeah I think it's been helpful but I'm very like particular about who I reach out to because again with like my comfort level but yeah I think I'm I'm maybe more choosy with who I message when it comes to like founders rather than brands because with the brands I'm like they say no they say no like I probably won't see them again.

33:09Helen Smith:But the founders are like, Oh, well, I might run into them. It's gonna be kind of awkward. But you got to do what you got to do. So when I get in places, especially when I'm in person, I try to really push myself outside of that comfort zone. But then there's like, people like you, who are like, super easy to talk to. And, you know, I feel like you kind of like have this like, kind of energy about you where you like start talking to people and you Like you make them kind of open up and feel comfortable talking to you. So I think that's also the other thing that I've like really enjoyed. And that has helped me through this past year of putting myself.

33:46Helen Smith:I was just like meeting people that, you know, you may think, oh my God, like maybe they won't be that nice. But then they're like actually like really cool and easy to talk to. It only took me a year to convince you to come on. So I must be doing something wrong. Well, that's part of a me thing where I'm like, do I want to go on a podcast? I'm going to watch it after. When am I going to think about it? But I'm like, you know what? It's fine. And I will say one of the other reasons I actually started saying yes to more was I did for the Globe and Mail. They had an event for the top growing companies and they asked me to be a speaker.

34:22And I was like, OK, I'm going to do it.

34:24Helen Smith:And I was so, so nervous because I'm like the other people that are up there are just like these people who are so successful. They've been doing this for so long. They have like this like amazing professional background. And I'm like, here I am. I was like a child youth worker, a stay-at-home mom. Now I'm like a founder that's still like figuring it out along the way. And I'm like, what am I going to have to say next to them? Or I'm not going to sound smart enough. And I think that's one of the biggest things that for me has been hard for me to get by is that I'm always like, I listen to other people speak.

35:00Helen Smith:And I'm like, they speak so like, just like they sound so smart. And I'm like, I'm just like me. And I say like a lot. But being at that, so many people came up to me after and were like, I love how like genuine you were. And it was so relatable. And that kind of like shifted my mindset. And I was like, okay, there's probably other people like me that are thinking I don't want to do this. I'm not good enough to be doing this. And I shouldn't be up here with these people. But then it's like you go up there and then maybe somebody else will feel comfortable. So I'm like, OK, I'm going to make myself uncomfortable just for a little bit.

35:40Helen Smith:And maybe it'll help somebody else come out of their shell and feel like they do deserve to be up there. When I started doing podcasts many years ago, it was 2013. I had a startup called Tap for Tap and I had a YouTube podcast called Tap That App for monetization for how to monetize your app. And I remember just thinking like I was throwing myself in these conversations with app developers and it was like uncomfortable because I'd never done this before. But I was just like, every day I'm going to do something that kind of makes me feel uncomfortable. And that's been a good sort of like lesson for my whole career is like, if you're not doing things that make you feel uncomfortable on a fairly regular basis, you're probably not putting yourself out there hard enough.

36:17Helen Smith:I agree. And, you know, the more you are out there talking about it, then, you know, maybe the more people that you help. And that's one of the things about when I did this, I was like, I want to be able to have other people that have thought about these things be able to think that they can do it too. And I truly do believe that if you really believe in something and you want it, you go after it, it can happen. And I'm like, if you're like, oh, it can never happen. It could never be me. You'll never know. You're going to miss out on an opportunity. And I think it's just better to go after it than to just doubt yourself all the time.

36:49Helen Smith:I always say that I live in the clouds with butterflies and rainbows. And that's where I like to stay because I think it's just like the worst that happens is a no. So who cares? Just go after whatever it is you want and see what happens. Talk to me about just U.S. expansion. I think you started in Canada mainly when you were just early on. Did you tackle the U.S. fairly early? And then what percentage U.S.-Canada is the business at this point? Honestly, it was from the beginning. We were Canada and U.S. And right now it's like 30%, 70%. And last year was supposed to be like the year that we really like tackled the U.S.

37:28And good times with the tariffs.

37:31Helen Smith:That really helped. So, yeah, starting that over this year. I'm hoping to do more of that. I think it's just like learning how to connect with a U.S. customer is, I think, where we're kind of trying to figure out. Whereas in Canada, I feel like in Canada, we really, really gravitate towards that community and having those connections. And I think in the US, you gotta have to like kind of put it in front of them more and like get them into it. And like, why do you want to be part of this community and like show them why you want to be part of this community? I think it's just like, it's been amazing to see how many people have been able to connect outside and like meet up across like states and things like that or across provinces.

38:17Helen Smith:So yeah, it's just trying to hit him more with like the paid side, I think right now. And how has the paid side gone? I know you have this great internal flywheel with your community. Have ads been a game-changing lever for the business or still something you're trying to figure out? I'd say that we're still figuring it out. They are doing their job, but I think I'm just like so used to the growth without it. It's hard for me to like kind of wrap my brain around spending to get sales, get eyes, like things like that. And just understanding more about marketing. Like I'll say like from when we started, I have learned every aspect of how to run the business except paid marketing.

39:00Helen Smith:It was the one thing that I just like did not pay enough attention to like, I guess because we didn't really use it. So I didn't learn it. And like, I've been trying to learn more about what all the acronyms are, which is just like marketing is just acronyms. And I'm like, it's all acronyms. DTC podcast. Yeah. Like I would say that most people, when we talk about like, I don't know, CAC and MER and things like that. Like when we talk to like marketing agencies or anybody like that, they're like, whoa, that's crazy. And I'm like, is it? I'm like, it seems like it's not enough and it should be better.

39:36Helen Smith:and yeah just going from like that really organic not spending into spending is kind of like but you know you got to do what you got to do so just trying to learn how to use it best what about your current agency made you think that okay this agency gets it or because i imagine i think that's i talked to a lot of founders and there are a lot of crappy agencies out there and founders are often cycling through agencies when when even when there's other challenges in the business. The agency is often the thing that gets cycled. But how did you nail down the agency that you're currently working with?

40:09And what did they do that made you think, okay, these guys get it?

40:12Helen Smith:When we first got into it, we hired a consultant who then hired an agency through the creatives. And it was like through that time, we were like learning about it. And I was like, okay. Then we moved to an agency. And it was just like, my thing is when I work with anybody, is we're working with you because you're the professional. You're the expert. You should know what works best. And you advise me on what to do here. And I found like there was too much hand-holding and like so much revisions and not getting the branding. Or it was always like, hey, maybe we should try this. Hey, we should try that.

40:49Helen Smith:I'm like, this is not my wheelhouse. Like, why would I be, why am I putting so much effort into this when we have an agency to run this, like start to finish? and I just like I'm such a vibe person and I don't know for that was there's no vibe but with a new one I actually met the founder in person at one of the events and I was like okay he sounds like he knows what he's talking about I like what he's about let's see let's meet the team let's hear them out and yeah they just they get it they come to us with the idea they come to us with the plan They always have suggestions and they're just so easy to work with.

41:26Helen Smith:And yeah, I love that I don't have to constantly be like, can you try this? What are you doing? This is not working. That's not working. And it's just like, they're coming to us with all the information and all the ideas and things like that. And I just love that we have like an actual partner who cares about the business growing as much as we do. But yeah, it's just like been like becoming friends with them as well. And it's just like having that connection, I think is like also like really helpful. What growth lever are you most excited about over the rest of this year and into next year? Honestly, like my biggest thing this year is to just grow the community even more than it has and finding new ways to grow it outside of how we've been doing it.

42:07Because I do truly believe like the thing that makes businesses stand out is who's behind it.

42:14Helen Smith:Because at the end of the day, there's going to be so many brands that make the same thing. And sure, some of them are better quality than others. But you're going to also have some that might be the same quality. What is going to make you stand out? It's having that community is showing who you are, giving them something outside of just the product. And so, yeah, I think like I'm most excited about seeing how we can like grow and expand that community outside of just like where it is right now. And transforming customers into actual advocates. I think that's the real switch there with communities.

42:46is when you've got a group of people who bought the product, but when you put them in a community, you have that great chance of actually turning them into advocates who are going to bring other people in. And the product itself is probably, it has a great viral component because anytime someone comes to your home and you've got this and they have kids, they're going to see it. And it's like the best advertising you could have is seeing their kids playing on your ruin you, right?

43:07Helen Smith:Yeah, I think that we've never done like content creator, influencer, things like that. But like, it's so big right now. everybody's talking about it and I'm like okay how do we do something that is about our community though because like my view is like the people who are our customers they know our brand the best they know how to use the product the most they know why it's great and they're the ones that are spreading like are the word about ruin you and I'm like if we start an affiliate program I I want it to be for customers. I want it to be for people who already have the product, who know it and can actually speak to what it is.

43:49Helen Smith:So we launched that in November and we did it just like we announced in our group to our email list. And we're like, come get an affiliate code. If you're a customer, let's get you an affiliate code. And, you know, I want you to talk about it. I want you to earn from those sales instead of like somebody that, you know, we have to send stuff to tell them all about it, things like that. and it's been so awesome to see how well it's done and you know just like some of these like moms that have never been like content created they didn't even have like these accounts and they created them and have grown them just by showing what they love about like our brand and yeah I think that's like it's been really really cool to see and really speaks to that community aspect because you know they're the ones that are supporting you so I just want to support them back and it's worked out really well for us.

44:40I should have asked this maybe more in the beginning, but is the Roo and You, is that Roo from Winnie the Pooh? Or is, where did you get the brand name from?

44:48Helen Smith:So prior to Roo and You, I had a brand called Choo Choo Baby Roo where I handmade teethers and passfire clips and I had like silicone items. And so it was like Choo Choo Baby Roo and it was a kangaroo. And when we first had our drop, our first pre-order, we were still Choo Choo Baby Roo, but we had that kangaroo as part of the branding. And as the company grew, we were like, okay, we can't continue to be Choo Choo Baby Roo because, you know, after like five, six months, my husband was like, you're not hand-making stuff anymore. He's like, people are never going to get their stuff. He's like, you can't continue to do this.

45:23Helen Smith:I'm like, but I love it. So we're like, okay, we got to rebrand. But we didn't want to get rid of the kangaroo. And people used to call us Roo or something like that. And it was just like, okay, how do we make it about the community as well? So we made it Rue and you. Perfect. Communities in the DNA. So we do this. We do the rebrand. We've like, you know, put out like our corp and all that stuff and everything's been done. And the very first time I heard somebody say Rue and you on like stories, it said, the caption said Rue and you. Oh no. Oh my God. But then I was like, you know what? I was like, it's actually really funny because it's going to ruin your bank account, but it's okay.

46:08That's hilarious. Well, very nice. If you had, I think you've already given some great advice to entrepreneurs and been a great example for entrepreneurs out there. But if you had any closing words for entrepreneurs who are, you know, I loved chatting with you at ShopTalk. Just like when you're building a brand like this, there's just one thing after another that you're constantly having to figure out how to do on the fly. And I think Socrates said, you know, the wisest among us is the person who knows that they don't know anything. So sometimes I always question when you see people out there talking and they sound fully confident and they're, you know, they're making these big declarative statements and Americans might be better at doing that than Canadians.

46:44I think Canadians might have a more built in self-consciousness or something. But, but what did any advice that you have for founders that maybe can really resonate with your journey out there?

46:53Helen Smith:don't be afraid to ask questions for sure um i would not be here or know anything i know if i was afraid of asking questions i literally ask everybody questions i don't care who it is i don't care how it's going to make me look if i'm like talking to somebody about something that i don't know about i'm going to say can you explain that to me can you tell me how this works how that works and i think a lot of people are really afraid to do that because then they feel like they don't they don't look like that they could be in the room with that person or they're going to get judged. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're all just trying to learn.

47:29Helen Smith:So definitely don't be afraid to ask questions and don't be afraid of no, just go do it. Go ask somebody for advice. Ask somebody to be, do a collab with your brand. Just go talk to people and go for it. And yeah, the worst is going to happen is a no by the best of ZS and who knows where you'll end up. And don't be afraid to come on the D2C podcast. Yeah, it made me very comfortable. So thank you. Well, thank you very much. And obviously, if you're a parent out there, if you just like play couches, you got to go to Rue and you. Keep an eye out for other things that might not be child related. Oh, I just see.

48:07Happy International Pet Day.

48:08Helen Smith:Oh, yeah. We have our pet stuff because everybody's pets are all over their joeys and all the pieces. And we're like, we got to make them their own cozy little spot that is the same quality and has the liner because why do pet beds don't have liners? Makes no sense. It does make sense. And it's also, it's important to have them separate as someone who owns a pluffle that was supposed to be like my dog bed for humans. Like once your dog takes it over, then it just becomes the dog bed and I don't advise anyone be in it. So it's good to have them separated out, I think. I'm going to be honest. My kids love our fetch and our lounger.

48:49Helen Smith:It's where they watch movies. Each of them have their own little spot where they watch a movie. One's on a lounger, one's on the fetch, and one sits in a big chair. And that's just how it is. And, you know, we lost our dog last year, but we still have the pet beds in here and they still use it. And, yeah, they're just, they're the same quality. So, like, people just take them and use them for themselves and lounge on it. But your doggy can go on it as well. Or your cat. And then you're fairly active on LinkedIn. So maybe I'll advise people who want to follow your entrepreneurial journey to follow you on LinkedIn.

49:19Good follow. Thanks for coming on the podcast today. This was a lot of fun.

49:22Helen Smith:It was very fun. Thank you so much.

49:30Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're not a subscriber to our newsletter, you can do that right now at directtoconsumeralloneword.co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the D2C podcast. We'll see you next time.