Ep 624: How Cove Soda Builds an Email and SMS List With No DTC, Trading Full Cans for Signups at Events

0:00Zoe Kahn:The Better For You Soda space is like a knife fight these days. How are you breaking through in this space? You have to find something that sets yourself apart from the other brands and not be afraid of it being oversaturated. We've been able to build our lists through digital couponing and QR codes, specifically at events. Even if you are a DTC and you have a good list, it's something that you shouldn't forget to do. because AI, we are very AI friendly. Biggest thing is that we just remind our team that like anything you do more than once can probably be automated. So if you're pulling data or creating marketing plans, make sure you're using AI so that you can work smarter rather than harder.

0:52Zoe Kahn:Zoe, welcome to the D2C podcast. Last time I saw you, we were at Hakkasan. Good times in Las Vegas at Chop Talk. Yes. I was thinking it was at the nine. What was the prohibition bar before? You have a better memory than me because it was Hakkasan. We made it all the way to bottle service. And I think I flew out early that morning. So I took off quietly. But yeah, I thought it'd be a great opportunity to kind of round back up and chat a little bit. I was just going over your LinkedIn before this, and you have had quite an eclectic career so far. I'm so old and young at the same time from my LinkedIn.

1:32Zoe Kahn:You've been in the fitness world previously. Yes, yeah. So I started, I actually wanted to be a dietician. So I thought that the fitness world, it is a great place to kind of learn and put yourself through all the motions. and I competed in bodybuilding and bikini bodybuilding. And it taught me a ton. And I worked at GNC and I was trying to just like embrace all of the different fitness supplements to prepare myself to be a dietician. And then while I was in school to be a dietician, I started working at Ghost, the energy drinks and supplements, and started to learn e-commerce from that. But the reason why I was like so involved in supplements was I was trying to prepare myself to be like the best dietitian that I could be.

2:24And then took a break from school because I loved e-commerce. And then everything snowballed to where I am today.

2:31Zoe Kahn:Amazing. And you spent some time at Chomps. That must have been a ride there as well. Yeah. Chomps was great. I did customer experience and retention there. and actually was really grateful for accidentally being put into the retention part because our retention person left for another opportunity. And so they said, Zoe, do you want to do it? And I'm like, I don't know. Sure. And then I read our good friend Carly's book, Email's Not Dead. And I got a mentor and I learned that's how I learned retention. Oh, amazing. Full circle moment. And it's kind of neat how you started in nutrition and your career has kind of followed these sort of nutritional style things with Chomps and now with Cove Soda, which is a Canadian company.

3:18Yeah, yeah. And I was so excited to see Eric at Shop Talk and say, wait, you know Cove because Cove Soda just came to the US about a year and a half ago, but is large in Canada, a better for you option. Might I say the like, Olipop or Poppy of Canada?

3:40Zoe Kahn:Yeah, I think that works. What's been the most kind of interesting thing about that ride? Because you guys are, I think I read you're in sort of 7 ,000 doors at this point. Yeah. So the most interesting thing for Coe for me has been the challenge of not having D2C and really being that like retail, how to like capture your audience and not be able to speak to them directly, directly. Or how do you speak to them directly? And it's just been interesting to see, like we've done a couple of events while I've been here. right now I'm the VP of marketing and as an interim while they're finding the a long-term person but at events you you see people in the U.S.

4:27they're like oh I don't know what it is but then like a random Canadian will stroll by and be like Cope in the U.S. and so it's been really really fun to see and it does give me it reminds me of like my days at Ghosts and Chumps my earlier days where it when you're talking to people, you're like, oh, yeah, I work here. Here's a sample of this. And they don't know what it is. And then slowly but surely you start meeting more people that know what it is. And you're like, wow, these efforts that I'm making are like impacting the country. People are learning about the brands I'm working for. So it's really cool.

5:05I love this this phase of a company.

5:08Zoe Kahn:I did a podcast, I guess it was maybe last year with Rob Fraser from Outweigh. And he had built the brand in Canada and really saturated, built the ground game out when it comes to being at events and getting the brand out there. And they're putting a big effort on the US and they have been for the past couple of years. I'm excited to catch up with Taylor Fraser actually tomorrow on a podcast about that. How has it been taking a brand that has a good foothold in a smaller country like Canada and bringing it to the U.S.? Like, does the U.S. care that it's big in Ottawa? I would say what's been interesting is that, like, the U.S.

5:47doesn't seem like they care in the way that, like, I know that one of the challenges for the Canadian audience is that Canada is like very, they're like really proud that the brand is from Canada. But in the U.S., it's a little bit easier to launch new flavors and everything. So our Canadians are a little upset that like U.S., they'll see some flavors in the U.S. and they don't really understand all of the logistics and the operational difficulties. and then in the U.S., they don't understand how lucky they are to get these new flavors and everything. And I would say that the U.S., from what I see, people are like, oh, cool, it's a Canadian brand, but they don't really care.

6:39But in Canada, they're really, really proud of it, which is cool. I love that. But it's a little bit hard to like balance that challenge of wanting to like foster our Canadians because they are like what made the brand. But then being able to like test things in the U.S. market.

6:59Zoe Kahn:Did the Canadian pride thing, was that something you noticed before all this, you know, Trump hoopla around the 51st day? Because it's funny, I think of like, I don't think of us as like the most patriotic in terms of like, although we kind of are like that with our celebrities we love to point out when a celebrity is secretly Canadian I guess so maybe it's the same for brands oh thanks for bringing up Avril Levine she never gets talked about on this podcast yeah she's my role model she made me how so uh I was I don't know I just like remember my whole childhood I was like rocking out to her music and I was a little skater boy and I was like a like a tomboy just trying to be I bought her like the biggest thing that I bought when I was a kid was I saved up I literally went to Guitar Center with like pennies and quarter like change as part of my payment to buy the Avril Lavigne custom guitar and I remember that I'm like money is money and the the Guitar Center employees are like great now I have to count like 300 pennies so that you can get this wow love to hear it um so the soda the better for you soda brand space is like a knife fight these days there's just there's so many uh that you know if you got ollie pop and poppy you know poppy's doing super bowl commercials at this point in a space where you don't have that d2c you don't have your customer right in front of you how are you thinking about building loyalty and actually you like breaking through in this space?

8:31It's an interesting perspective where it feels like oversaturated, but that's not how I look at it. And I think that that's like the beauty of it. And you can't like close your mind off to it because if you look at the just like beverage in general, or even like if you look at examples like beer or supplements, like I always think about supplements like I used to work retail and GNC and every there's like 15 different brands of supplements that have something that's very similar but like people are buying all of the different brands and it just you have to like find something that sets yourself apart from the other brands and not be afraid of it being oversaturated otherwise you're going to just get consumed by like the other brands, but you do have to keep all the other brands in mind to like keep up with the trends and make sure that you are setting yourself apart.

9:27And for Cove Soda, one of the things that sets us apart is zero sugar. A lot of the brands have a couple grams of sugar. And so we can cater to the people who really care about having zero sugar and great taste. I am like, I love fun drinks and I'm not a hater. We're very friendly, like competition, I would say. But one of the comments that we get a lot is, wow, this tastes better than a lot of the better for you sodas. So that is definitely a differentiator. And it's important to talk about those things. Otherwise, you're just another brand on the shelf next to everyone else.

10:09Zoe Kahn:I was just looking at your post you recently made on LinkedIn, and it's sort of three unique ways that you're collecting consumer data in a world where you don't have this D2C side of things. And your first one is QR codes on the product. I feel like COVID brought QR codes back from the dead in a big way. Talk to me about how you're using QR codes at COVID, how it's working. Yeah. Our first test with this, because since we're not D2C, so nobody has a reason to visit our website unless they're just curious. and a lot of D2C brands build their lists, email, SMS from purchases on the site and people soft complying to marketing and the pop-up on the site with an offer.

10:53But we don't have a lot of people visiting our site. So like one of the things is like trying to figure out, give people a reason to visit. But it's really important that one of the things that we've been able to build our list through digital couponing and QR codes at specifically at events. And I think that a lot of brands, even if you are a DTC and you have a good list, it's something that you shouldn't forget to do because a lot of times we're going to these events or activations, these in-person things and handing out samples, which is a great for brand awareness. But people are so happy to give their email in exchange for like one can.

11:38Sometimes as marketers, we might feel like, especially as we're getting these like cans for free, you're like, people are going to give us your data for just a free can. But people love free stuff. And if you're offering samples, like little sample cups to everybody, if they don't need to give your email, but you get a full can in exchange for your email or SMS, like we have been able to grow our lists. And it's really great because then we We can announce to our email list and SMS list when we launch in new retailers, when we get a new flavor and all that, which is something that we were missing.

12:14And one of the challenges that we have had, like I mentioned before, is talking to our different demographics geographically. So like when we post on our Instagram, we're talking to both all of our Canadians and all of our Americans. but then some of the updates aren't relevant to either of those communities. So if we have our email and SMS list, we can target like, hey, this is just happening in the US. There's no need to bother our Canadians or, hey, this is just happening in Canada. We don't need to bother our Americans and like upset anyone or trigger anyone, make our elbows go up. Exactly.

12:55Zoe Kahn:Talk to me about your ground game. Like you mentioned events a couple of times here. how do you go about selecting the events that you want to be at? The first thing is figuring out the demographics of who's going to be there. So, and does that match our target demographic? And, you know, just the success of the event. So a lot of the bigger events, especially ones that you have to like pay for a table at or pay for a booth at, they'll always give you those like demographics. And so it's matching the like look and feel of our brand. Like we're a fun, better for you brand with a demographic of 25 to 30 years old.

13:37So do the people who are the people who are attending those events, do they match that demographic? And then like a lot of different things like operationally, like do we have marketing assets in that state? Like all the budget things of we've been doing a lot in California because we've got our assets there and we save money. So there's like all different kinds of like budget approval operation things that we need to consider. But as long as the demographic matches, it's always good to get in front of those crowds and sample and collect emails and have fun.

14:18Zoe Kahn:I think that's a big one. Most people just think, I think, about sampling. where you're just giving, you're hoping they'll come back because they love the product. But actually doing the swap at the place for an email makes a ton of sense. Yeah. And it takes two seconds. And our team, it's kind of scary to start to do, but then you'll see it's crazy. People just start a line and they finish filling it out. They show you when they're done, you hand them the can. And it also gives you an opportunity to slow down and talk about the product. When you're just handing out a sample, people grab it while they're walking and sip it.

14:56But this gives us a chance. They're just filling out mindless a sheet with their email and SMS. And you get to tell them, we're at Sprouts. We're at Target. We're zero sugar and better for you. Have you tried us before? And so it also gives you that opportunity to actually make an impact rather than just hand something to someone and they forget 10 seconds later.

15:18Zoe Kahn:Very cool. And you guys are on Amazon too, right? Is that under your purview? Yeah, yeah. Amazon has been a journey too, because being able to build up the inventory and be prime two-day shipping has been a journey. But now we finally have enough inventory. So we'll be starting to market towards that as well. What'll be your plan for that? Just basically using ads, bidding on long tail keywords to start and working up towards larger ones? So we have a Amazon partner and I'm not going to pretend to know the whole Amazon game, but I will talk about the retention side of it. We're excited because, again, we don't have DTC, but now we can use attribution links to link to Amazon and at least show like in our retention efforts, bringing people to Amazon to click the link, see if they purchase, see how many what people are interested, be able to test different types of things.

16:12of graphics and wording and copywriting in our emails. So that's like our, we're excited about being able to attribute that. And then there is a whole Amazon team that's making sure, like, I know that every market has to worry about this, but like other brands are buying our keywords and having to compete against that. So our Amazon team is like handling that. Yeah, I can't pretend to, I'm not going to pretend to know the whole Amazon game.

16:41Zoe Kahn:The whole ecosystem. And then have you guys tested D2C and just decided it's not right for the business? Or what's the reasoning for not investing in D2C at this point in the business? Great question. Beverages are heavy and shipping costs are really, really hard to fight and be profitable. One of the things that is on the list to explore, but we're a pretty small scrappy team, but we're thinking maybe about exploring subscription. I don't want to get anyone excited, but subscription could be an avenue of where we could. But even then, it takes a couple orders to be profitable with the shipping or people aren't going to want to pay shipping costs if we charge it.

17:29So really, it is the shipping costs and being able to figure out how to make it make sense.

17:34Zoe Kahn:Just my standard question these days, I just was at the Whaley's and I was chatting with True Classic about their 100 % agentic media buying. We at Pilot House at D2C actually have started an agent named Gary, who does our media buying for the lead gen for the newsletter. Are there any innovative ways that you're enjoying using AI or are you anti-AI? No, no, no. I'm very, yeah. AI, we are very AI friendly. We, so many different ways. Like, biggest thing is that we just remind our team that like anything you do more than once can probably be automated. So if you're pulling data or doing the same thing, creating marketing plans, like make sure you're using AI first too, so that you can work smarter rather than harder.

18:27Um, we've been a big fan of the Claude, um, Google Chrome input, like what's it called? I forget that.

18:36Zoe Kahn:Just the interface that crawls it. Yeah. And then, um, creating agents based on like, well, I think the biggest thing for us is pulling data because we always have to, to have that data to back up our efforts and then present it to the board, et cetera. us. So it kind of sucks when you're like, you want to be in this creative mindset and like, be a marketer, but then you have to take 10 steps back and like spend so much time pulling data and everything. So I think that's one of our biggest ways, but nothing super like sexy or anything. Any tips that I can share besides that. What data is like for your business is the most important to pull that your board's looking for?

19:22Right now, what's been kind of top of mind is actually influencer data and impressions. We use a tool called Aspire right now to organize all of our influencers. But no matter what tool you have, a lot of times it's not presented in the way that some like your manager or your board wants to see it. And so pulling data from there. And then we also use it for consumer support to pull data for feedback or complaints or anything that might go wrong. Being able to pull, say like, hey, this, these are the things that we pull. This is how we do it? Can you redo it and then have, you know, train the AI to continue to do it while you're doing other things?

20:14Zoe Kahn:Let's talk about your podcast a little bit. Let's laugh about it, is your podcast. I think it's awesome because when we started D2C Newsletter, and I was right, I think I wrote the first 20 or 30 issues. And at the time, we were like one of the only like, podcasts in the space or newsletters in the space is before everyone kind of jumped in. And we really like we were sort of like reacting to the old sort of like LinkedIn content model of just being sort of boring and basic. And we really wanted to bring humor into this space. We work with so many other people who are in similar phases of life, whether they're young or, you know, building a family or whatever.

20:56Zoe Kahn:There's so many things that we share in this space. People are so open and honest as they're doing this. They're so willing to help each other grow. And at the same time, there's a lot to commiserate about because we're working so hard, because we're moving so fast, because we're breaking things. There's a real opportunity to laugh at the things that we're doing. And I think and we infuse that into what we were doing right from the beginning. We always talked about our tone being wry in that we'd sort of seen a lot of changes in the industry. We're like, OK, what's next? And we're we're sort of being stoic about about building in this space, but recognizing that there's a lot of opportunity for shared humor and commiseration.

21:34Zoe Kahn:What was the reason that you decided to start a podcast about the humorous side of this business? Yeah, great question. What we're doing isn't life or death. But when you get the pressure of performing and everything, for some reason it starts to feel like life or death. But really, we're selling soda or deodorant or underwear. It's really not life or death. And I think that reminding yourself to laugh and learn from your mistakes and share and be vulnerable is really important in this space because it's not life or death. And one of my first e-commerce or actually the first e-commerce event that I went to or conference, I felt really awkward meeting people because, yeah, I know you're like you.

22:27You must have a lot of trouble meeting people. I was so nervous. And so, but in everyone's like, same thing as what you said about the LinkedIn, it's like, everyone's like, so like, business casual. And like, I'm from this state. And this is what I'm doing in my career. And this is like, what's impressive, whatever. And so I was kind of like bored. And I'm like, I feel like it also comes off on authentic to me. So I was like, I'm going to start asking people, yeah, those normal things, but what's the biggest mistake you made in your career? And it kind of threw people off and like made people laugh.

23:05And they started telling me stories that were so funny that like things I wouldn't, it was just great. And it like brought humor and then, you know, someone would be by themselves and we'd invite them over and be like, we're talking about our biggest mistakes. Like we don't care about any the like impressive things tell us what what you made and then the person would share their story and it really like brought people together and it gave me the idea like let's make this up like wouldn't it be funny if I made a podcast about this and that's how it started and uh I never expected to like I didn't even understand I was just like I think people would like to listen to this.

23:45But I didn't understand the podcast world with sponsors or like the opportunity or anything. But I've been now like traveling around recording with different brands and had sponsors and all these things. So it's been a fun, lighthearted way to talk about business that's not so serious.

24:04Zoe Kahn:And it just bonds you with the people. That's the thing that I've always, just even just having a podcast, there's always like humorous moments, even in the more business oriented ones that I do, but it, but just the rapport that it builds with someone when you have these sort of like transparent conversations, it's just been so incredible for network building. Like if I were to reach out to half the people that I've ever talked to and say, Hey, I, uh, I run content for a omni-channel digital marketing agency. And I'd love to chat with you that they would never respond to that in the LinkedIn world.

24:36Zoe Kahn:But when it's like, I have a platform and let's connect and our audience will love it. And you'll get exposed to this many people. It's just a whole, it just changes the conversation so much. It's been, it's my, and it's like, I'm constantly advising people who are like in, especially in the B2B space. I'm like, and if anyone ever tells you that there's like too many podcasts in the world, like tell them to shut up because it's like, it's the lowest barrier to entry medium you can have. And it's one of the things that is least likely to be disrupted, I think, by AI content are these like human conversations that people are having with each other, the vulnerability, the insights, It's, you know, all those things in a world where Google could start summarizing newsletters tomorrow or is already summarizing newsletters.

25:20Zoe Kahn:I feel like the podcast is a great thing to have. And it's low cost. Like I started off like in your you're doing it to like just getting on a call virtually you can talk to anybody. And one of my favorite things about it is it's like not like one of the a lot of things in the space is like, oh, if I give you this, I did you a favor or it's like, no, we're just getting on. Yeah, there's so much transactional business going on. And I love the podcast world because it's like, let's just take a break and chat. I guess you're going to ask me about some funny things that have happened to me. What are some of your go-to humorous stories?