Dr. Barbara Sturm: Founder of Dr. Barbara Sturm – “Pioneer of the Sturm Glow”, Skincare Innovation, Longevity, Anti-Aging & Wellness

0:00Your first podcast? Very first. I'm so honored. I'm really honored. No, only for you. I'm really grateful. You have no idea how far I flew to see you. I know. Only for you. Thank you so much. But I love you so much. I love you more, Barb. You're the best. You're the best. Thank you so much. You flew from New York? New York to Zurich. Zurich to Milano. And then when we're done, I'm flying from Milano to Naples. Beautiful. Yeah, it's very nice. I know you don't usually fly from New York because you're based in Stad. Yeah. Which we need to acknowledge. The viewers need to know that Barbara Sturm is the Stad girl.

0:37Oh, yeah. You know, before I knew you, I thought you lived in Stad. And your team reached out to me and I thought, oh, yeah, they reached out to me because they know I live in Stad. You had no idea. And then when we met, it's like, no, I come to Stad once in a while, but nothing to do. I know, it's so funny. It's so funny. We met for the first time at our dear mutual friend's house, one of my best friends in Axon's house. Yeah, we love him. Love him. He's the real shtad guy. He's the real shtad guy. He's cooler. And you're the real shtad girl. I love when I build new friendships, and it happens pretty rarely these days.

1:15And you're one of those friendships I'm very grateful for. Same, by the way. Same. We're not looking for friends. I'm not actively looking for friends. But the ones you find, nevertheless, they're so dear to me. to ourselves. I'm actually excited about the opportunity to meet more of those interesting people. Me too. And I'm also equally excited by not meeting anyone. Same. I live in Stad. Exactly. Exactly. That's fantastic. Around the world with your host the Stad Guy. We welcome you back to the Stad Guy podcast. Sharing stories of excellence with those in the No, for those who just know. I want to acknowledge your nicknames.

2:02Barbara, Barb, Bibi. Who says Barb? That's just Matt Cook. Oh, it's you. Barb. I rarely hear Barb. Barbie? Barbie? No, come on. No, okay. Come on. Bibi? What does Charlie call you? She calls you Bibi? She calls me Bibi, Mama. And if I don't listen, Barbara. Okay, fine. Then I listen. And Pepper does the same thing. If I don't listen, Barbara. Fine. When it's casual, BB. BB. Okay. For those who don't know, Charlie and Pepper are your two beautiful daughters. So thank you so much for being here on the Stadgei podcast. I'm sure everyone knows you. Your reputation precedes you. Dr. Barbara Sturm. Of Dr.

2:44Barbara Sturm. You are the founder of this incredible skincare brand. And you are a doctor of skin, of beauty, of longevity, of health. you're also an incredible mother, an incredible friend, and a sponsor of Stad and the Stad way of living. This is healthy lifestyle, this disconnected lifestyle, and this appreciation. I try to keep it a secret, but you talk about it. We have to talk about it. This is the Stad der Podcast. We cannot acknowledge that you live in Stad. We have to. No, of course. We have to. We have to. So it's really amazing to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. And I'm very honored, obviously.

3:22I love talking everything, longevity, good skin, health. And also I love, incredibly, I love doing fun things. I'm so happy to hear. That's great. How has your day gone so far? Have you used a lot of your products today? I know you traveled a lot. Especially when I travel, I slap them on constantly. And it's nice. It gives me always like the hydration and doing this because the planes, There's like so much hydration and out of your skin and yourself. So hydration is the key from the inside and out. I drink water. I don't eat on the plane. I really always reapply my products. Charlie made those eye patches I'm obsessed with.

4:06I never wanted eye patches, but Charlie convinced me. So I made these eye patches and I changed them like three times throughout the long time flight. And that really saves you because you feel, especially with the eye patches, When you take them off, you feel how much hydration gets out of your skin. And those are just under the ice? Yeah, you just put them under your ice. That's cool. So you have how many products today under your umbrella? Oh my goodness, lots. Lots of products. I don't even know how many. I'm really wonka. I create products for everyone with skin. People come to me and say, oh, I have a problem with X, Y, Z.

4:47I'm like, oh, I'm making a product. That was my approach when I started this skincare because I wanted to please my patients and give them something that was effective, that would help them, that would transform their skin. And they were happy in their skin. Look into the mirror and feeling confident. That was my main interest in creating products. That's why my line is also quite big because I make products for everyone with skin, no matter what skin concern, what color, what age, what skin condition. whatever it is i make products for them beautiful so you started this whole journey as a skin doctor i'm an orthopedic doctor okay i'm an orthopedic doctor and scientist i started with a group of scientists from harvard pittsburgh and a group of orthopedic surgeons from dusseldorf and i help pioneering a treatment where you take the patient's blood process it in a certain way to create anti-inflammatory proteins and growth factors and then you re-inject those into the joints to bring down inflammation and stop the ongoing aging process.

5:52So aging and inflammation goes very close together. And this was fascinating to me. Also fascinating to me was that you can be a pioneer, that you can come up with your own treatment. If you don't really believe there's any existing valuable treatment, you make your own. And that really struck with me. And that really stuck with me, no? That's how you say it. And that really stuck with me and that made me do this vampire facial, create this vampire facial in 2002 because there was nothing on the market in the aesthetic field. When I started injecting Botox and fillers as an orthopedic doctor, I was always obsessed with aesthetics.

6:31And so I started doing that, but I brought the anti-inflammatory, anti-aging proteins with into this procedure and created that treatment to enhance really the skin quality and do something effectively on the molecular level, on the cellular level. Beautiful. And that was in California? That was in Germany. That is all made in Germany. But I was traveling to California so much and I was working with lots of scientists in America. But in America, it's like, you know, there's a lot of science made in America and then they can't really bring it to the patient until it's FDA approved. So in Germany, as a doctor, you're allowed to do pretty much everything and, you know, bring it to the patient.

7:15So the knowledge came actually from the U.S., but then we brought it to the patients. And yeah, I translated just that knowledge into aesthetics. Beautiful. And when did you transition from the traditional doctor approach to starting your own business and brand? I still see myself as a traditional doctor. I don't see so many patients anymore, but I still like to give advice to patients. And that's why I do a lot of education everywhere. But when I started doing aesthetics and the blood facial, I had more and more patients coming to me, not for orthopedics, but for aesthetics and I'm also very good in doing Botox and fillers I just love natural results and I developed my very own technique to just lift this the face and not making you weird lips or weird cheeks or whatever was hip at the time when I did it it was 20 years ago and at the time it was a status symbol to really see what you have done to your face and I said no I only do natural results and I really like people to look their best themselves and not different so more and more people came to me for aesthetics and when I started my own clinic I had just a few orthopedic patients and it really translated into like this aesthetic clinic and your first product that you commercialized and then the first product ever was actually the blood cream I don't did i make you the blood cream before no so the first product was when i realized that i needed something for my skin and there was nothing on the market so my skin was dry i had blackheads i had to go and see my facialist every three weeks it was pretty annoying because my facialist also would hand me over products and products i spent so much money on products nothing would work and i would just throw it away and i didn't like the like it and i said to my my my colleague i said let's do it ourselves let's do a gene cream so you know I was like I was like 29 or something and I created the cream with the proteins from my blood and my grandmother was a pharmacist so I went to her and I said what are the humectants what ingredients really deliver hydration into the skin so she gave me a bunch of ingredients I went to my pharmacist we mixed it in his lab and we mixed the cream i still it's still my favorite cream until today and i added my blood in it and i healed my skin overnight literally and once your skin is hydrated and balanced you won't have dryness you won't have blackheads you won't have redness you won't have any problems so all of a sudden i i didn't have to go to my facials anymore i solved all my problems with this one cream it It was mind-blowing.

10:04And then all my patients, and we had so many patients also coming for the orthopedics part from Hollywood. So these people from Hollywood came for their knees and for their skin. So all of a sudden, this cream and all these treatments traveled into Hollywood. And when I went there, I was just such a hype around this. And this was my very first product. And they were all asking, oh, Dr. Stone, what if I cannot give you my blood? Or I want to bring it to my friend. And, you know, what other products do you have? Which cleanser do we use? And I wouldn't want to bring them to, you know, to like a pharmacy to get products.

10:41I wanted to make it for them because I didn't like what was on the market. And that's how I really started going to the lab, creating products that are mostly based on efficacy, science, delivering active ingredients into the skin. and also mostly we're hydrating and anti-inflammatory because what's on the market, lots of these creams, especially 20 years ago, imagine every cream had fragrance in there, everything, fragrance, fragrance, fragrance. You wouldn't know what was in the jars because it said like 10 ,000 strange names on them. You wouldn't know if you bought a cleanser or the cream. So I said, you know, it needs to be face cream, cleanser, it needs to be hydrating, it needs to be anti-inflammatory we need to do telomerase activating which is the most proven theory of aging the cell division to fix that and i wanted just the best best ingredients and so when the products were on the market people were obsessing over it because they worked you know and i was so surprised i was surprised it's like okay i'm this small little brand why does it get so much attention but then i thought you know if it works for me if it works for all my patients why would it work why wouldn't it work for the woman in australia or the man in in california or of course if a product works it works i love that you talked about the balance of the skin is that to do with acidity that's just one one point of balance because our skin is slightly acidic and if you would for example men like to wash their faces with soap or they're in the shower just soap for everything and soap is very alkaline so if you wash your face with soap for example, you mess up your pH, then you mess up your microbiome and therefore you mess up your skin barrier.

12:26And when your skin barrier is messed up, the outer layer of skin is disturbed. So you get sunburns, pigmentation, but also something else is happening. Water leaves the skin. You know, you have something called transepidermal water loss, which makes your skin even drier and dry skin really ages fast. So the goal is really to make your skin super strong and pH matters because you don't want to mess up your microbiome. Therefore, our cleanser, for example, has the right pH. But I doubt anybody else would think about making a product with the right pH because the industry is quite marketing driven and money driven.

13:03So it's more like, how does the packaging look? What's the celebrity speaks for it? Or what's the marketing slogan? You know, there's not so much care and attention to the detail what the skin really needs. And being one of the first movers who really took a very medical approach to a commercial product available globally, what was that process like? The process was just me being very obsessive over science and efficacy. If something doesn't work, and I'm my toughest critic, and I'm a patient too, and if I tell you I tried every product on the market and I was so surprised, How is it possible that there's so much skincare out and they're expensive and I spend all this money and it doesn't work?

13:48Why is that? And when I started doing products, I was like, okay, I have to be obsessed with every single product. If I'm not obsessed, it doesn't get on the market. So for me, this really matters. And science is the key to efficacy. And so, for example, the hyaluronic serum. We just did the testings, you know, the real clinical testings. testings. And now it's really proven that it slows down skin aging, which I knew. I knew when I did that, but we haven't really actively tested it. So I make products that are efficient for the skin, that give the most hydration because, you know, we are all made out of water and our skin as well.

14:32So if we compare raisins with grapes, so raisins are the dehydrated cells, grapes are the hydrated cells obviously want the grapes they look better they also have these osmosis channels to take on active ingredients we want those cells to go through their whole cell divisions because that's important for for anti-aging so we want these cells to perform to be nourished to have like everything they need to to be the best functioning cells they could be and that's the goal with everything we do for longevity not just for the skin that's why you drink two liters of waters every day that's why you have your sleep that's why you have tried to distress that's why you live an anti-inflammatory life in order to you know grow older but healthy and young what is an anti-inflammatory life so anti-inflammatory lifestyle is basically having your good night's sleep trying to reduce stress because stress brings something out in our system which is called cortisol which hires inflammation our nutrition and diet mostly plant-based no processed food no sugars no you know this you know it's like mostly like a very healthy diet and then skincare products or whatever we wear on our skin whatever we use as a detergent whatever it is that touches our body from the inside and out and there's so many endocrine disruptors that touch our skin look at shampoos these days there's silicone there's microplastic there's fragrances there's tensides what touches our scalp is mind-blowing and then it's a hair spray and then it's a conditioner an extra thing for this and then there's like wax and then there's dry shampoo I mean like it's crazy and our scalp is quite permeable so whatever goes on our scalp gets into delivered in our system for this matter everything that touches our skin our skin has dendritic cells underneath that communicate with our immune system.

16:35So if we think the skin is separate from every other organ, that's absolutely not true. And skin sometimes gets mistreated. We mistreat our skin because we say, oh, skin doesn't matter. It's our largest organ and we cannot live without skin. Same like our liver, our kidney, our heart. You know, some people use retinol, glycolic or acid peels because they just want to scrub their faces off for whatever reason, but they cause the inflammation, they cause our disruption of the skin barrier. And they would never do this to the kidney or liver or the heart. We would never throw acid peel on our heart.

17:09We would say, oh my God, the heart, you know.

17:14With, I'm not super knowledgeable in this territory. I'm trying to become more knowledgeable. So forgive me for being, asking simple questions. The, why is inflammation bad? So inflammation is not all that bad. You know, inflammation is an immune response and is there necessary to fight bacterias and viruses. And is it cells inflaming or parts of our body that inflame? If a virus or bacteria enters our body, our immune system, our white blood cells come and they start producing factors, enzymes, ingredients to help to heal, to diswell, to bring back healthy tissue. So this inflammation process is necessary to fight these bacteria and viruses.

18:04Inflammation becomes a problem when it's chronical and when it's in high levels. So high-level inflammation, chronic inflammation, or also self-inflected inflammation, like throwing acid peels on our skin, that makes our immune system react, obviously. We don't want this high inflammation because that is something which causes chronical diseases, autoimmune diseases, degradation of tissue, aging, cancer, whatever it is. every skin condition we don't like goes together with inflammation so it's good that we have this inflammation once it's necessary but don't do self-inflicted inflammation through bad diet skincare products detergents no sleep no yeah okay fine that makes sense i'd love to dive into your experience as an entrepreneur and maintaining your love for being a doctor and your passion for being a doctor, but also going down the route of creating a product that's available off the counter and becoming the face of the business as well.

19:12Your name is on the bottle. People know you, people relate to you and want to learn from you. And that's a big part of why people buy the products as well. Was that a part of your vision the whole time? Or is that something that happened by accident? To tell you the truth, I didn't have a vision for becoming something in the beauty industry that wasn't why i studied medicine i i studied medicine because i wanted to be at service to my patients and that's why i created the products the way i created them because i wanted my patients to have success with their treatment and this was something i learned along the way being a scientist and work with scientists and it really inspired me so the vision was wasn't like oh i will be super successful in the beauty industry i will have products i will be doing this or that.

19:57So the vision wasn't ever that. I go pretty much step by step. So today is today, tomorrow is tomorrow. And I love being a doctor. And at a time, I was really working more in skincare than with patients. And I was missing my patients. And when COVID hit, I was like, okay, I want to connect with my patients. And I had the time. I was sitting in LA in my house. I was sitting there and I was, okay, doing masterclasses, lives. I was doing like five online events a day. It was crazy. The whole house was full with huge post-its. I did a masterclass about pigmentation, about rosacea, about teen skin, whatever it was.

20:40We had like the best time in our house and doing all these events. So I was talking a lot to patients and they gave me things I hadn't thought of and what needed to be done and I created products. And it was so cool to connect with real people and, you know, giving advice and helping them through COVID with their self-care. And that I really loved. And this is where the education and the building of a community started with the Stern brand. And this until today, I mean, I just come back from the anti-inflammatory house in New York. We did like a huge townhouse just for education, for people who wanted to come and learn.

21:23We did like, I think I did like 12 panel talks with experts, just with experts, yeah? Just people you can learn from. And this was, it was really nice. People loved it and they love coming to this brand. It's beautiful. So you fell into this kind of by accident in a way? I just fell into it. But that's how I love life. You know, when I met a guy, I was thinking, do I know where I would be in 10 years? If I knew where I would be in 10 years, this guy wasn't interesting to me. I don't want to know where I am in 10 years. I want to flow with life. I want to see what's happening and I want to stay flexible and surprising.

22:06And, you know, every day I have an idea and it's fun and some ideas I do, others I maybe don't, but that's the cool thing about life. And I want to keep it this way. So I didn't plan this. And I did step by step. I got money from the bank. I started creating products. I produced them. I didn't really have marketing. I didn't have money to pay Vogue articles or Vogue ads. There was no Instagram at the time. So this was word of mouth just because the products were good. And then I had like so much work in my clinic where I was seeing patients with shipping out products that I said to my team, I need to be on Net-A-Porter.

22:45Net-A-Porter needs to sell my products. And everybody said, you cannot sell beauty online. That doesn't work. I said, I don't care. My patients know the products. So I went to New York. I knocked, can I please have a meeting? And yeah, I was not very well known in this beauty industry, but they gave me a meeting. I talked to them. They decided to take the brand. It was really amazing. and I went on Net-A-Porter and from Net-A-Porter, how it's called, space and care, everybody called me. And this is how the product got everywhere. I didn't plan. I also wasn't like, I wasn't so arrogant to say, oh, my product, there will be everywhere.

23:26I wasn't planning on this. I did it for my patients. And then, yeah, it exploded. And then we had so many products and people were like asking me nonstop, how do we use products? what's the sequence what do we need to use when how do we use the enzyme cleanser and then I thought okay I have to do I have to showcase it and I already had like facials created in my clinic so people could come and had facials in the clinic and then I decided to do pop-ups before the Oscar before fashion week before all these events and the first pop-up was in LA in Johnny Depp's house and I got his bar and and the bar was like a massage table my my facials from Germany came and every celebrity came in to have a facial and they came out of this facial room the bar and had the most glowy face and Rosie started Instagramming it and it was Rosie Huntington yeah she came and and it was so cool she Instagrammed it and everybody had the most glowy skin and i said oh my god this is the stern glow this is how glow really got created people coming out of the facial and this became a thing these pop-ups we we did i think 22 pop-ups in one year we were like a circus going from one city to the next yeah it was so fun and instantly exploded on instagram and everybody was obsessed with the products every model wanted to have a facial it was so cool nobody else was doing it and this is how the brand got more out and out and I created the glow drops and the glow drops became such a thing and then all brands all of a sudden had glow drops and glow glow glow here and I'm so annoyed with glow but the glow is just like it's like still a thing and it's the stern glow which basically is a sign of healthy, beautiful, dewy, hydrated skin.

25:22Love it. You are downplaying some of these monumental moments out of modesty. And I'd love to talk about one or two of them, particularly that door knock on Net-A-Porter's door. I know you say that you did that because you wanted to make your customers' lives better, and I believe it 100%, but you did something that seemed so natural to you by partnering with a business that you love as a consumer and a business that you know your customers align with but stepping out of skincare and into fashion and aligning a skincare product with fashion I think is a much bigger deal and I think you did something that impacted the entire industry and either you're too humble to admit it or you actually it was actually just a positive byproduct of something you did with with pure intention but today I find that skincare is very much aligned with fashion lifestyle yeah and the lifestyle yeah you know people who dress well pretty much all take care of their skin I don't know anyone who doesn't care about their skin but cares about their outfit I think it's such a conscious part of of maintenance and love for self today to to love oneself is to love one's body and to take care of their biggest organ, to take care of their skin.

26:42And it's a big part of communication in fashion as well. I think all people of influence who create lifestyle content also talk about their skincare routines. It's a big part of people's days. It's actually like a ceremony that people start their day with and end their day with. And it's a part of people getting ready. And the fact that you were the first brand to break the barrier of fashion and be on l 'état-porter, I think is a huge deal. and I think you deserve to be acknowledged for that actually. Yeah, I try to make my life easier with going on Net-a-Porter. And you know, not many people knew at the time.

27:17I mean, it was just the cool people that knew Net-a-Porter and you know, Nathalie Massanet and like, I tried to get to her and give her the blood cream so she would take me on Net-a-Porter. Yeah, it was a big deal to get on Net-a-Porter. For me, it was like mind-blowing to be on there. And then you're right, it's a part of the fashion, But what really was cool, I started having PR agencies, obviously. And then when we went bigger in the U.S., I needed a PR agency in the U.S. And I had a PR agency, which was quite dedicated. They had a beauty division. And I went there and we did cool stuff together.

27:55And all of a sudden they took more of the German doctors more and more. And I said, you know what? And editors were like asking for my products. And I sent them every doctor's product. And I'm like, you know what, I'm out of here. So I went to actually a super cool agency, a super friend of my family now, Malcolm Carfrae. He has an agency and up till today, he only has one skincare brand, which is amazing. We've been together for many, many, many years. But what happened was that I said, Malcolm, I want to work with you. Malcolm said, but I don't really know the beauty editors. And I said, it doesn't matter.

28:30We will figure this out. We do it. We do it. so I worked with him and then he started introducing me to every stylist every editor there is everybody from fashion because he was big in fashion he was working for Calvin Klein he was the guy so I met everybody we went to fashion week and I was all of a sudden the girl who was the girl the the doctor who would just see every designer every designer would come to a pop-up now I'm friends with all the designers, which is so cool. And, you know, I love fashion so much. And for me, it was amazing to meet everybody. And that was Malcolm. And now, as you said, it's the thing, you know, beauty and fashion belongs together.

29:13It's not separated anymore. But at the time when I started, it was very much separated and we brought it all together. And then we were the first ones popping up at Fashion Week too. And now, you know, like every skincare brand is trying this obviously because it's a cool concept I love it this podcast is brought to you by Pubelle by The Stade Guy allowing you to express all the things you love and all the things you may question on interchangeable charm jewellery that can be combined to create bracelets necklaces handbag accessoires and much more from iced matcher and reformer pilates to sauna buckets and a pair of skis all the things you love and even the things you question can be expressed through pubelle while doing all of this you also became a young mom right to charlie that was yeah so listen charlie i was still in university i was basically Way before.

30:22Studying medicine. I was studying medicine and I was pregnant and I was like, oh, okay. And I, yeah, I wanted to be a doctor. But then I had Charlie in my semester in the holidays. So, and as soon as holidays were over, I went back to school. Charlie in the maxi cozy, my mom taking care of her. I was still breastfeeding. So every four hours I would come back home and feed her. and yeah but it was cool because it gave me a sense of responsibility I wasn't the one partying all night I still was partying but not like you know with a little more you know I was responsible and also it taught me a lot about managing life so people was like how do you study medicine and you have a child and you do this and you do that and then I still was modeling at the fashion fair and I was still doing you know I was still you know working in the store selling stuff or I made so much money by the way when I was like a student I was working so much for cool stuff so I was financing myself while having Charlie while studying medicine and my ex-husband would say oh my god medicine must be so easy the way you do it it wasn't No, it wasn't easy.

31:39But I was always very good in figuring out how to do the maximum with the minimal effort. I'm very good in this. I know how to figure this out. I think your minimal effort is still most people's maximum. You just have a great way of also adding love and fun to it. So you make it look effortless as well. Because I know the inputs are also still there. I know you try to say that the inputs are the minimal effort, but you also put in a lot of work. I've seen how you work. Yeah, I love working. I think I have a really good work ethic, but I really also love it. I'm passionate. I'm self-disciplined.

32:16I know what I want and I work hard for it. And I saw my mom working hard. I saw my grandmother working hard. My dad. And, you know, if you see it at home, you also develop the sense of what's necessary to achieve something you dream of. you? I have friends that are young parents and that have found balance or at least their definition of balance. And not a single one of them ever regrets having kids or ever regrets having kids too early. They all just love the process and such a beautiful part of life. But I have far more friends who are waiting for the right time. And myself included, to be honest.

32:53What that right time is, I have no idea what that even means. I also have no idea. I think we're all just lying to ourselves what was it like to really juggle life and all these things at such a young age and be a founder while being a doctor while being a mother and putting your heart into all of those things and would you ever have done anything differently yeah it's the greatest to have charlie i mean charlie is my best friend charlie is my advisor she's working in the company with me without charlie we wouldn't be where we are because she's bringing all this new generational input and it needs to have this young beautiful power source like Charlie she's amazing and I'm so happy I have her and I was happy when I was a young mother I loved her so much back then and she was always like the one and same like Pepper I want to do everything for them give them great education give them everything they need to be able to fulfill their dreams because I don't need them to be amazing in math or amazing this I don't push them for anything but what they want I support them with everything I have and that had worked out and at the time obviously obviously it's hard and obviously sometimes you know you wanted to go out and then you didn't have a babysitter or it's you you make sacrifices but it's the most beautiful sacrifice in life and I would never have done it differently and everybody wants to be young mother should be young mother and they still can do everything it's just great to have the parents around so my parents were always there always supporting me loving Charlie it's it's quite necessary for supporting family we women are so capable of doing everything and everything the same time we're so good at multitasking, so good at managing, so good getting stuff done.

34:49Yeah. So I think the ability is there for everybody, but it's not like, oh, I want to be a CEO. I want to be a founder. I want to be successful. I want to making money. That's not how it works. It works with a passion, with a obsession with a purpose, with a strong belief, with the readiness to, you know, maybe go on the minus with the money or taking risk on every level, being there 24-7, dedicated also with things you might not love to do, but you have to do for this. And even though it's easy to launch something on Instagram, it's easy, but launching something which is lasting, something people will remember also in three years not like short short term life that that is easy to do but something which really stays consistently in people's lives that's a hard one to accomplish and we really have to have to think what it is you want to bring to the world and not just doing something for doing something and showing that you have a business in a two-year period you moved from the US to Stade, very different life.

36:06You got divorced. So single life, also very different. And you also sold Barbara Sturm to Pooch, your brand. So lots has changed in the past couple of years. I'd love to know what this new page of your life looks like. So I only sold the majority. I still own quite a bit and I'm personally involved and I love it. It's my baby and I have a lot of responsibility. And by the way, the products are made by me. No changes in any product. This is my responsibility. So just to make clear that these products will never be anything but 100 % perfect. So yeah, that was important to me. Yeah, I'm getting divorced, which is, you know, life is like comes in waves, ups and downs, changes.