Explora Journeys President: Anna Nash – The Ocean State of Mind, Redefining Luxury Travel, & Why Time Is the Ultimate Currency

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0:42The Gstaad Guy:Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Anna, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. It's really good to spend time with you. Me too. Although the why of this podcast is very clear from the title, there's a why that's particularly important to me. And that is why Explorer Journeys is what it is as a business, but also where this industry is moving.

1:19The Gstaad Guy:I think lots of people are looking for experience in travel and substance in travel over status and repeated experiences they may have seen online. and people really want to disconnect over a few days and be a different version of self, a more curious version of self. And it's very exciting to see a business like Explorer doing that at sea. You operate two incredible vessels with a third coming, bringing this boutique hotel experience to the world's oceans and seas. And on board, you have everything from paddle courts to salt rooms, spas, boutiques selling watches jewelry beautiful rooms six restaurants i think 12 bars you mentioned so very excited to learn more about you anna and about explorer journeys around the world with your host the stade guy we welcome you back to the stade guy podcast sharing stories of excellence with those in the know for those who just know i've actually never been on a ship of that size before or a vessel of that size before well we're uh mid-size let's just say look like a beautiful sleek uh super yacht but our size does give us an advantage that we've got a variety of amenities bar you know 12 bars and lounges six restaurants so you'll be well entertained but you can also find some time to relax it's incredible i uh i'm very interested in the category generally i know explorer journeys is in a league of its own but i have seen over the the past few years, lots of hospitality businesses tried to get into the space.

3:02The Gstaad Guy:Some have done a great job. Some have done less of a great job. Can you please tell us more about Explorer, your role as the president of Explorer and what you're trying to achieve with this very cool business? Yeah, thank you. So, Explorer Journeys, as I think you just said, really sits in a category of one. Why? um you know we are a relatively new brand we are the ultra luxury lifestyle brand of the msc group so we we come with a very strong backbone and and many many decades of maritime excellence our family we're privately owned the aponte vargo family um have got a legacy of seafaring they you You know, there's over 300 years of family history linked to the seas.

3:51So we really know the oceans incredibly well. Explorer Journeys was conceived back in 2001, really created on a white sheet of paper. So family vision to redefine ocean travel, to offer something different, to offer something that's more akin to the experience that they have on their own private yacht. you know we talk about we don't like to use the word cruise for example and we'll talk perhaps about those connotations that that brings to mind and we really talk about being a floating hotel whose address is the ocean so we're there to redefine the experience at sea the hospitality experience at sea and as I said a family owned we were born and bred in Geneva in Switzerland.

4:36The Gstaad Guy:Well, I know that the family have lots of experience at sea. And as you said, the Explorer journeys are floating hotels and you have lots of hotel experience. So I guess that partnership makes a lot of sense. You've worked with groups like the Rosewood and Amman and now with Explorer. Can you tell me more about your experience with hotels and how a floating hotel is different? Yeah, well, actually, I think it's really interesting to be back here today in Rosewood, London, because I worked here, had the privilege of working here as part of the pre-opening and opening team back in, I think it was 2014 for quite some time.

5:16So it feels full circle in a way to be back here. I know this suite very well. I was talking to you about it earlier. So now I've got a legacy over 25 years in ultra luxury hospitality. It's all I ever wanted to do. I studied business and hospitality management at university. And I was approached for this role at Explorer Journeys to really lead the family vision. We have two ships currently sailing, Explorer 1 and Explorer 2. We have Explorer 3 launching later this year in July. And then we still have three more ships to deliver. So we'll have a full fleet of six by 2028. so I was brought on to help roll out the vision really look at the hospitality experience really look at that guest-centric approach to hospitality at sea what does that mean what are our guests looking for how do we want them to feel at the end of the day but also of course make sure that we're delivering those ships on time coming up with incredible itineraries for our guests to experience so we've got a lot to achieve in the next few years but we're on track on time and look forward also to seeing you on board explorer 3 as she takes to the waters i'm very excited i

6:34The Gstaad Guy:noticed one thing in particular with being on board a floating hotel and being at a regular hotel which is the degree of commitment i think people have to be far more excited and far more committed to an experience at sea than they do on land because of the optionality of being able to just walk out of the hotel on land at sea people really have to have a greater belief in something and a greater belief in the experience to commit to moving around and not being able to to get off board can you tell me more about that it's quite true and i suppose in you know in hospitality we're all vying for our guest time time is the ultimate luxury and yes if if you're a hotel you might typically welcome guests for two or three nights at a time and then they may move on to to somewhere else indeed if they don't like the experience then they can check out for us uh we do offer some journeys that have five night sailings but generally they're seven nights you can tap on seven with another seven and another seven and continue because we tend not to repeat the ports that we visit.

7:46So you could almost do a continuous journey with us. But it does mean that you are committed in terms of time to be on board. And that gives us an incredible opportunity to really understand who is our guest when they're on board. What do they like? What do they want to feel? As I said earlier before, what are they looking to achieve out of their vacation? Because we all want time out of our everyday routine for a reason it could be to celebrate an anniversary or birthday spend time with loved ones multi-generational trip could be bereavement could be honeymoon so we're trying to understand who our guests are what they want to feel and how we can help them achieve that so we have a more time to really understand our guests of course that gives us an advantage.

8:34It does also mean that you can slip up and perhaps expectations may not be met in all of the days that they're with us. But generally, it gives us a really strong advantage over land-based hotels.

8:44The Gstaad Guy:I know that your guests are very different to a typical land-based hotel guest, as well as very different to a typical cruise ship guest. I've actually never been on a cruise, but I have heard some of the connotations you hinted to. can you tell us more about what a cruise experience has been like and how you've reinvented that i think i'll start first with the stigma you know i've been with explorer journeys coming up to two years this year and um you know i'd done my research i'd actually cruised a lot personally in the past with my husband and i've always loved the sense of adventure that a journey brings you that you can't replicate in a static hotel but i also know having done my research um that there was still this perception that it's it's not for me um that it's not a luxury experience that the food will be subpar there'll be queues and queues of people to get on and off the ship um that it's a very hurried and crowded experience that's just simply not true there is also one um one stigma i suppose that stands out the most which we will not repeat I'll tell you in secret that I was told that cruising is for the recently wed, overfed and nearly dead.

10:03At which point I was like, I love that challenge. I love the challenge of being a trailblazing brand and changing perceptions. So, you know, Explore Journeys is none of that. We are really a very ultra elegant floating hotel that caters to the very discerning guest, a well-traveled guest. and you know we're seeing more than 30 percent of our guests are choosing us as a brand for the first time of course we're a new brand but they're also first time sailors or cruisers um and there's been something very appealing in the way that we are you know as a family privately owned business we're able to have a very strong point of view you know we are new we are different and we want to sort of really push against that narrative that is out there that this is not for me.

10:57And the first time sailors or cruisers that we have are overwhelmed. They can't believe the value for time, first and foremost, because time is on your side on the ship, but the value for money that it brings. And it's still an ultra luxury experience. So we're really pushing against those perceptions, trying to really convey the advantages that ocean travel brings in this sense of peace this frictionless seamless way of travel what

11:28The Gstaad Guy:would you say were the main voids in the space that explorer journeys solved for so explorer journeys was was as i said built on a white um piece of paper really looking at this gap in a very modern approach to luxury um a very very elegant very upmarket experience and so first and foremost the ships you know as i said earlier we're privately owned our family know how to build ships there was a lot of research done before the brand was put to market we spoke to over 20 000 and existing cruisers and those that had never cruised before what would you like to see in a new brand um so you know the brand from the offset was built on the art of listening so there was definitely a very strong point of view of providing a hotel a boutique hotel experience on the water that gave flexibility um food and beverage you know we all know how important food and beverages you know we food conversations over food variety of food seasonally um and locally produced um cuisine on board wellness ocean wellness we know that the the modern traveler is looking to improve enhance their their feeling of well-being and relaxation so you know we we were really built around pillars of service um cuisine and well-being and i think that's where we're very different and I think me coming from a legacy of of ultra luxury hospitality brands where the guest has always been the core of the brand why we exist um and to infuse this hyper detailed customer oriented approach is really playing to our hand at this point in time and I think separating us from a more traditional legacy cruise brand that would be centered around you know, butlers with white gloves, you know, so we're very different in our in our outlook, we can see that in the guests that we're attracting our average age is actually only about 56.

13:43So we're bringing the age down also in the world of ocean travel.

13:48The Gstaad Guy:There's a couple of words that I've heard a few times so far in our conversation, which are boutique and family owned. The past hotel groups you've worked with, although they are institutions, Rosewood, Amman, and now Explorer Journeys, all very big businesses, but the one thread in common between all of them, or one of many threads actually, is the family-owned element. It's this incredible degree of excellence, this attention to detail, the boutique feeling at scale, as well as the family ownership. What would you say are the main differences business-wise between these family-owned hotel groups and some that are more commercial in nature and publicly traded companies as well?

14:36Well, what's really interesting is all throughout my 25-year career, I've only ever worked for family-owned businesses. So Orient Express, where I started my career, which is now Belmond, was also family-owned. So it was run by Simon Sherwood, James Sherwood, of course, as well. So I think there's an understanding how a family business works. It's fueled and, you know, especially Explorer Journeys, we're fueled by passion, by this desire to, as I said, challenge perceptions, bring an entire new guest to the water for the first time, to open up the eyes of everyone, to really understand that ocean state of mind, how the ocean makes you feel, this depth of emotion.

15:28so we're really you know with with family-owned brands you see this this sense of passion that i just don't think exists in much larger publicly owned companies one of the greatest benefits is the ability to move at speed you know with explorer journeys we discuss with the family around the table and we move we move fast we don't have to go through layers and layers of board approval. We're not worried about our financial results and how they will be perceived in the public eye. You know, we exist for, you know, for the family, of course, for the brand itself. But that gives us a speed and agility to adapt to customer trends, to what we hear from our customers, their feedback, good and bad.

16:19How can we continually tailor the approach to stay focused on the guest because without the guest we wouldn't exist so I think you know for me family businesses are there you feel an incredible sense of pride working for a family-owned business but also an incredible sense of responsibility to deliver on the vision but of course the financial

16:43The Gstaad Guy:results as well I love that someone recently compared a great family business to a great monarchy where you can be very agile and quick in the short term but also incredibly patient in the long term whereas in some political systems where the person in power is changing very quickly you can only really be two to four years in line of vision versus 10 or 20 years and with these family businesses I think what's very clear is that without the need to show impact quarter by quarter you can actually instead do it over decades you can build true value slowly and allow things to run their course from what it sounds like 2001 to today with still only two ships delivered shows that priority for excellence versus the priority for scale and speed.

17:44That's correct. It also takes a while to build the ships, to physically get the slots in the shipyards. So there was a plan, an industrial plan, to have the full fleet of six delivered by 2028. So with the first ship in 23, explore in 24. There was a strategic pause in 25, which enabled us to what I called a very unsexy term, our housekeeping year. So it was sort of a year after I joined or half a year after I joined to really take pause and reflect and really look at how are we being perceived? What is, you know, what's the feedback? Really analyze the end-to-end guest journey. The same for our trade partners because obviously we sell through trade partners as well.

18:37And then to come out this year with a strong point of view, a very firm strategic plan. And then, of course, we set back off on our exponential growth path because we have Explorer 3 this year, two ships to launch next year and then the final in 2028. So a very fast growing plan. I don't believe there's another luxury ocean travel brand that has ever launched a brand and a full deployment of six ships in such a short time. And in fact, by 2028, we will have the largest share of the ultra luxury cruise market in our hands.

19:18The Gstaad Guy:Beautiful. It's a huge growth. Very, very exciting. It's amazing. I'm 90 % of the time destination first when I choose my next day. 10 % of the time I'm property first where I've just heard amazing things about a property and I'll go to a destination for the sake of that property. With Explorer journeys and with a stay on an Explorer vessel, I assume it's always a balance of the two because you're seeing lots of destinations, experiencing lots of things. what do you think the rationale typically is for someone who wants to embark on an explorer journey it's as you said I think both and you know when I speak coming from my experience 10 years with Amman Resorts and that was very you know the the philosophy there the guest decision making process was very much built around the iconic hotels.

20:14So people knew they wanted to go to Amangiri rather than go to Utah. People would know they'd want to go to Amangzoe rather than thinking about where it's based in Greece, for example. So it was really the allure of the hotel, the service, the design philosophy, checking them off a list. And I think with Explorer Journeys, I've come in really believing that the ship can be a pull it is a destination unto itself phenomenal design incredible choice of amenities lots of you know entertainment and enrichment on board as well so I definitely believe there's guests that come to sail because they want to experience explorer journeys our vision our philosophy this ocean state of mind as well as some guests will decide well i want to sail to asia i'm going to sell the explorer journey so there are guests that will choose itinerary versus um ship but we're definitely seeing both

21:21The Gstaad Guy:and what is the onboarding and experience like on board what can someone expect so well there's a feeling as i talked about before i think first and foremost let me talk about the feeling because i'm really into the mindset of the guest and i think that's really important in my position and i've studied it a lot when i'm on board i really like to talk to our guests and i can see a complete change of behavior to you know the guests that are on board versus in a hotel so the minute that guests are untethered from land something magic happens that sense of being free being unlocked from political geopolitical tensions conversations um unbound from your your daily rhythms you know your working life perhaps but i think also time is on your side on the ship for once and you'll discover this when you're with us but But if you look at a traditional hotel lobby, people are rushing through.

22:26Their heads are in their phone. They're trying to find their Uber. They're stuck in traffic. You might respond to that this morning. There's a tube strike in London. So you're stuck in traffic. You're late for your reservation. On the ship, you have arrived. You've unpacked once. You've not got to unpack again. You've not got to go back to the airport. You don't need to get in an Uber. Your restaurants are all within walking distance. and suddenly you realize you've gained back these 20 minutes here and there throughout the day so suddenly you've you've gained maybe three hours in a day that you'd look you'd lose to all of those just logistics of being in in normal life so i think first and foremost there's this calming sense of arrival this i'm here i'm now really going to switch off i'm good and i feel that guests are looking up more they're not in their phones they're talking to other guests They're opening up conversations.

23:19So I think there's definitely a guest behavior that changes. But what can you experience? An incredible arrival. You'll be welcomed by all of the ship's leadership team as you come on board. You'll go into your suite. You'll be welcomed into your suite. And all of our suites, we have 460 suites on board. All of them have terraces and, of course, beautiful sea views. That doesn't change. we will give every single guest a ship tour so they understand where all the different amenities are located and really time is yours it's you're there to enjoy the ship now you may have booked a destination experience um in every port that we visit you may have left your diary completely empty to sort of go go as you flow let's just say um but generally our guests will board they'll find their sort of way around the ship.

24:16And first day we tend to set sail in the evening. There'll be a sail away cocktail often. We'll have a DJ on the Sky Bar on Deck 14 to sort of wish everyone well on their journey forward. But it's for you to enjoy, you know, six restaurants that we have on board, 12 bars and lounges. You can book into the spa. So it's really freedom, choice and variety for our guests.

24:42The Gstaad Guy:The freedom, choice and variety with those six restaurants, I find really important to me. I've never been on a cruise ship and I know that an explorer journey has a lot more in common with a mega yacht than a cruise ship. But I have been lucky enough to be a guest on some friends' yachts and mega yachts. And typically the guests they invite are incredible and the hosts are lovely. And that's a big part of why I very gratefully accept their kind invitations. Every once in a while, they'll invite a few guests that I'm not a big fan of. And you just can't avoid them. They're just, I mean, sometimes these boats are very big and you can try to avoid them.

25:23The Gstaad Guy:But at least in the mealtime, I have to sit with these guests and sit through it. I mean, it doesn't, boohoo, it's not the worst thing. But if I'm booking a hotel stay or especially a stay on board a boat, I want to make sure that when there's people I'd like to see in particular, I can't see them. And people I don't want to see in particular, I also can avoid them. Those six restaurants make that very possible. That's great. And I think you've really nailed where the family were really in their vision and trying to achieve. We're mid-sized. We're not a really large vessel. We're mid-sized. We look like a super yacht.

26:07Beautiful, deep marine blue livery. There's a red waterline, the Phil Rouge, a steeped aft, steeped back of the ship to give an abundance of space of choice. We have five swimming pools. We even have things like a salt cave, a Himalayan with pink Himalayan salt, a salt cave, sauna, steam, six restaurants, as you talked about, 12 bars and lounges. We even have a really beautiful humidor. You can smoke cigars inside. So I think you've really nailed it. We wanted a sizer vessel that gives our customers choice. It gives them privacy. It gives them generosity of space. It gives them an abundance of outdoor deck space.

26:57We have an incredible partnership, for example, with Technogym. So we have a really well equipped state of the art Technogym inside. inside. We also have rowing machines and bikes outside for guests to exercise while looking at the horizon. So we've given space, but it also gives privacy. So if you want to seek a corner of your own, a cabana of your own, you will always find privacy. You will not need to be with people that you don't want to be. But if you want to seek conviviality and find a social buzz then you can also do that and I think again it goes back to choice so we do see guests that would you know perhaps switch between a super yacht experience and coming to to sell with us we have our owner's residence which is our largest suite that I think would probably feel like you know most similar I suppose to a super yacht experience a much larger suite than you'd ever have on a super yacht.

28:04But of course, you've got, you know, just steps away, a variety of experiences and amenities at your disposal.

28:10The Gstaad Guy:I know we spoke about the family business element of your career with the Orient Express, Amman, Rosewood. I think one thing that all those businesses as well as Explorer have in common is the choice of destinations they choose to expand to. In many ways, it's this frontier decision to be in destinations first, very often that aren't already these luxury hotspots. And I see Explorer doing a lot of that too. With the destination choices, I've looked at the list of places that the Explorer 1 and Explorer 2 goes to and has been to. And there's lots of places I wouldn't expect. Can you tell us more about the destination choices and what it means to explore to be unique in those paths?

28:59Pushing boundaries in hospitality is key. We want to give an experience that perhaps one guest might feel familiar with in a destination, say like Palma Mallorca or Monaco, but then we also want to take them to a place that they may never have thought about, heard about, or even had been on their wish lists. So I think it's really important when we're designing the itineraries to give variety of choice, the marquee ports, the lesser-known ports. And we as a family sit down at a table. It's quite a lively conversation about where we want to go and what is the vision of the canvas, as we call it.

29:43So the canvas would be the sort of the three or four-month deployment that we'd be looking at at any one time. So a traditional sort of seasonal deployment. What are we trying to uncover for our guests? What does that mean for us as a brand? How can we deliver some new destinations to guests as well as visiting some of those ports that we know always delight the guests? So it's a lively conversation around a table. we have um an incredible setup as part of msc in the sense we have a huge maritime support center here in the uk very close to heath row and so we have we can monitor every single ship minute by minute second by second we can see how much fuel they're using where the air conditioning is perhaps being underused or overused.

30:39We can monitor absolutely everything that's going on in our ships, at what speed they're going, when they're going to arrive at the next port. So there's this, as I said earlier, this incredible, rich maritime expertise that we have that also goes into building those itineraries. So, yes, so, you know, we've got, in terms of new destinations for us, and a lot of destinations are new because we're still a new brand. But going to Alaska for the first time next year for us, going into Northern Europe, you know, sailing into somewhere like Stockholm. And I've done that. I sailed years ago with my husband on another cruise.

31:23And that arrival experience that you get on the ship is second to none. It is so much more exciting arriving into some of these ports than it would be into a very industrial airport through this incredible archipelago. You know, a lot of these cities were built around their naval history, their ports. There's this grand arrival experience. So, of course, that plays into the itinerary planning, too. Where are those wonderful arrival experiences? What is there for our guests to do on the ground? What can they go and explore once they're there? So a lot of thought goes into the guest experience. We've also got Asia for the first time.

32:07I'm a big Japanophile. I love Japan. So I'm very, very excited to see our ships visiting Asia as well. So lots of new deployment for us coming up, a world journey. If you've got 128 days, one day in our lives. Around the world. Around the world. Why not? So lots of new destinations will be visiting Australia also as part of that itinerary. So for us, you know, there's so many places to explore and deliver exceptional experiences to our guests as we grow our fleet.

32:40The Gstaad Guy:Do you have Starlink on board? We do. 128 days of doable, I think. And this is the wonderful thing. You know, we do see our guests are able to combine their leisure time, but also stay connected to the office, which is so important. You know, we all know in reality, we might be out the office, but our work needs to continue. We can't not be on email. So Starlink connectivity for us, it's complimentary for all guests. Amazing. It's very, very important. What's the longest a guest has been on board with you for? Do you know? I do know, actually. It's 63 nights in one stretch. Yeah. And that's a returning guest.