Giulio Bergamaschi: CEO of Acqua di Parma – Family, Elegance, Craftsmanship, & The Timeless Language of Heritage

0:00Giulio, it's so great to sit with you as always. how's your monday going so far it's great to be here with you today milan my monday is going great actually i don't know if you know but i love mondays uh quite different from uh from everybody else monday for me is a great way to start well the week to set your goals your expectations the pace everything that you want to get from the week done and to bring people up to speed so actually Monday will shape the way that your week is going to be. So I like Monday and I better to like Mondays. I do too. If I could sit on the Casa Cipriani couch in Milan every Monday, then it's a good week for me.

0:43For sure. There are worse ways to start a week, but it's very important to have a mindset of liking Mondays. It's like liking the beginning of the day. If you have energy and you can canalize it, it's great. Every beginning is great. I love that. Around the world with your host, the Stade Guy, we welcome you back to the Stade Guy podcast, sharing stories of excellence with those in the know for those who just know. How was your weekend? I assume you were sailing as you always do on these summer weekends. Actually, I was not sailing this weekend. You know, I love sailing. I have a big passion for sailing.

1:29I have an old boat that requires a lot of passion, attention and time. I've been refitting it for the last years and years. But, you know, we spend a lot of time when we're young, defining our taste, defining our passions, fulfilling our hobbies. And then all of a sudden we become father and we realize that our priorities, personal priorities are no longer the family priorities for the weekend. And all of a sudden there is a new kid, not in town, but in the house that has needs that need to be fulfilled. And being a father is great. It's a lot of responsibility, but all of a sudden you realize that the weekend is no longer just for you and for your hobbies or for sport or for reading, but it's there for sharing and for teaching and spending quality time.

2:23Sometimes it requires a lot of patience, but it's truly rewarding. I love that. Well, thank you for sharing, as well as being a great father to a beautiful son and a great husband to a beautiful wife. You have become a dear friend of mine, and I'm grateful for you and our friendship every day. We have a unique relationship that I'm very grateful for of friendship, of partnership with work, also of mentorship. I feel like a mentee of yours, and I'm always learning a tremendous amount from you. From the moment we met, we were introduced by our dear mutual friend, Damien Bertrand, about three years ago.

3:00Yes, pretty much three years ago. I was in the middle of a big change in my life. Once again, a new beginning, exciting new beginning. And you were among the very first people that I met in this new beginning. I love that. And from the moment I met you, I remember thinking, this is far closer to the real-life Stade guy than I am. a real life connaisseur, someone who is mixing three to four languages to best communicate a thought. You choose the language that has the most expressive word at times, which the language the rest of your sentence is in can't cope with, which is something that Constance would do in a video at times, but you do it exceptionally more tastefully than Constance actually.

3:44You have an incredible way of describing something that seems simple, incredibly eloquently. And that's something I tried to learn from you. And as a result, you've become the CEO of an incredible business, Acu di Parma, which you're now running out of Milan. So we're joined today at Casa Cipriani in Milan and very excited to learn more about you, your career and the amazing business that you work on today. Thank you. I think you are way too nice and you're almost capable of making me blush. So this shows your skills in public speaking and also in being a dear friend. I'm also very happy to have met you.

4:32I could spend hours in saying great things about you. But what I think, and that's why I take pleasure knowing you and working with you, is that you are young, passionate, but you have a great understanding. of complexity. And you also have a fantastic capability, which is reading complex situations and being capable of focus precisely on where the critical topic is and addressing it in a very simple way and in a humble way. You know, I've always been fond of humility And I've always been fond of people who can, at the top of their life, at the top of their career, you know, be gentle with the gentle and being strong with the strong.

5:34Sometimes some people do the opposite. Sometimes it's easy to do that. But I tend to admire those who are humble and who are always nice. I think it's part of the elegance of a person and of savoir vivre, the way we can relate with the other, the way we can make feel the other welcome in what they're doing in their life. I don't know if I tell you, I told you once, I am Italian. I come from an Italian family, but there is a lot of diversity, heterogeneity in the family I come from. In my family, there are rocket scientists, there are scientists, there are musicians, there are archaeologists, any kind of disciplines are all mixed up.

6:25There are a few that I tend to prefer more, a few that I tend to like less. But for sure, this taste for humility that comes from some people in my family has remained. It's a skill that you need to develop with time because it's not peculiar of the young people. And when I was younger, I was following this adagio. but with time you start appreciated you know my uncle was a musician and he was traveling all the time in tournée with the great orchestras in the world and he was a conductor a good one and 30 years ago he went to Japan he was hosted by a great very important host in Japan, very iconic person and my uncle was a great artist, very well known, but he was an artist.

7:26And you know, artists, they don't control everything about their life. They are so focused about certain things, about others, they are simply not. So he shows up at this fantastic reception and dinner and in Japan, you remove your shoes. And so he removed his shoes. And as an artist, he forgot that his socks, his tight was amazing, but his socks, there was a hole in the sock. And the host that I mentioned, you about noticed discreetly that he went to the loo he made a hole in his socks and he got back so the so the guest was not feeling embarrassed because the host was in the same situation as as his and i find this little attention little care from an important person to another kind of influent person very interesting i love that well first i want to acknowledge and thank Thank you for your very kind compliments to me.

8:22And I know I nearly made you blush. I nearly made you blush, but you absolutely made me blush. So I really, really appreciate your kindest words as always. And I must say, if I had a hole in my sock, I think you'd cut a hole in yours as well. And you do show that in the non-literal sense over and over again in our dear and unique relationship. And I really appreciate that about you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I would love to start this conversation with what the audience can already see. It's us sitting here today. You dressed incredibly well and as a discerned connoisseur that you are, but also on a fun topic, in the iconic navy blue that I always see you in and that I learn from you.

9:03I dress Constance more and more often in this discerned navy blue. There's lots of people in power around the world, politicians, business owners, who are dressed either sporty or elegantly in this ocean color of navy blue, as you always are, and I'd love to know why. You know, navy blue is a very discreet and elegant color. It's profound. It's something that conveys calm, timelessness and stability. And if you know me well, you know that in my mind, there are so many ideas. There is so much creativity that I prefer to communicate it through my words and through my actions. rather than to the way I dress.

9:52And I prefer to reassure myself in the morning and the people around me with a very comfortable, stable, steady, and elegant navy blue, which is, by the way, also timeless and makes me think that the way I dress is very much based on true quality and not on hype and not on fashion that, by definition, is exposed to constant changes. myself I prefer I prefer not to play this game I prefer to be on the timeless side I think the trends are with us today on this conversation a few years ago was slightly different where people were less intrigued by timelessness in the masses at least and many connaisseurs and people who share your discernment were already embodying that way of life.

10:43What I love about you is that no single decision you make in your work or in your personal life is a siloed decision. It's always part of a part of a bigger picture, and a bigger way of thinking and a bigger way of being. And that's something I learned from you over the years of knowing you is that a choice for something as simple as a color is never as simple as that color choice for an outfit or an item someone wears or decision someone makes in the way they travel and live. It's always part of this part of this bigger picture of who someone is. And I'd love to actually start a conversation there and explore what it means to you to be someone who is discerned, who is a connoisseur and someone who takes part in a luxury way of living or luxury consumption in your eyes with brands that are iconically part of the Stadga communication, including Acqua di Parma, L 'Europiana, Audemars Piguet, and many other iconic brands that are part of this quite small circle that I love to talk about a lot on my page.

12:01I believe that basically it is linked to me being Italian and to the definition of luxury. that is dear to, I believe, every Italian. If you have to simplify things and not spending hours in details and in precision, I would say that luxury in France is much closer to a dimension of Versailles, la cour, the opulence, fashion, the hype. Whereas always simplifying in Italy is much closer to an idea of craftsmanship. Bello, ben fatto. And these roots, it's tradition to the tradition of Renaissance and humanism, where man, mankind and man was the measure of all things, where in every kingdom across Italy, there were ateliers of artisans that were learning the art of crafting.

13:05but learning the art of craft was not enough because the dimension of the artist itself was extremely important. There was a blossoming of many ateliers. There is a big difference, for instance, in the craftsmanship in Italy and the craftsmanship in Asia, for instance. If you think about the Confucius and the school of Asia, you're a great master if you can replicate what your master taught you. In Italy, you were a great master if you were capable of mastering the art, but then if you were capable of taking a step aside and creating your own way of conceiving beauty and creativity. And that's what gave birth to what we call artigianato artistico, that in my opinion is what lies far behind the tradition of luxury in Italy.

14:03And once again, why in Italy there was this blossoming of ateliers, of artists and crafts? Because Italy was split in many kingdoms and every lord wanted to finance those artists and crafts in order for them to sing his glory. That's the principle behind Renaissance. the blossoming of art in Italy was coming from very wealthy small kingdoms that were financing craftsmans and creative craftsmans in order to sing their glory. And since every artist and craftsman wanted to differentiate from the other in order to receive the attention from the Lord, that's the famous step aside and so there is a dimension of luxury in Italy that is very much linked to craftsmanship and very much linked to creativity and this is what I call artigianato artistico and I try also in Acqua di Parma to bring this dimension in everything we do the idea of associating a fantastic craft that very frequently is perpetuated from the past is an old know-how, an ancient technique, and associating it with a beautiful and modern design and with some twist of unexpected creativity.

15:38But everything sits in a line of worthiness. Beautiful. I love that you teased how that's relevant to Acquiti Parma. For the audience that don't know, Acqua di Parma is a beautiful fragrance house over 100 years old from Italy. I was introduced to the brand as a child, as my grandfather and father had been using Acqua di Parma fragrances. And was so delighted to hear the news when you were to become the CEO of the brand. And I always perceived Acqua di Parma as this sort of sunshine in a bottle. to me it was brightness, hygiene, freshness, but it's so much deeper than that. And every time we have the pleasure of connecting over the topic, I learned so much more about the brand from you.

16:28So I would love to learn more about the history of Acqua di Parma and your perception of the brand and where it is today. You know, Acqua di Parma is a beautiful house. It's a beautiful house that will celebrate 110th anniversary next year. What is interesting is that when we think about the boom of niche fragrance brands in the last years, we think about thousands of small brands that come and go. We think about trends. Acqua di Parma was born in 1916, so it was one of the very first niche fragrance brands, but it managed somehow to surf above trends for the last 110 years. And that's fantastic.

17:23It's a niche brand from Italy that has now become more than a niche brand. It's clearly a heritage or a legacy brand, but it is not at all turning its back on the past. but on the contrary, it's turning his face forward. There is an expression that I like to say, there are some brands of fragrance that are built on memory and there are some others that are built on way of living. And I believe Acqua di Palma is built on ways of living. That's why Acqua di Palma is not only a fragrance brand or a niche fragrance brand, but is an art of living house. in the last decades aqua di parma managed to truly embody much more than fragrance but when i ask around me discern people that have been knowing aqua di parma since decades or since generations as as you they tell me there is only one fragrance that embodies the style the elegance the refinement of Italy.

18:34And that's amazing. And it's so rich. It's one country, the style of one country in a bottle. But it goes even beyond because especially when it comes to summer, some people tell me, and even on TikTok, when I try and understand what people are saying about the brand, there are so many people saying it's a fantastic Italian vacation in a bottle. There is nothing better than a compliment such as this. Now, our responsibility is to manage, to imagine what they are referring to and try to tell our beautiful stories, to compose our beautiful notes in order to create and intercept this vibrant way of living.

19:33And this is done through fragrances, and we're going to come back to that later, on the way we try to give more and more personality to our fragrances in order to make them more and more different from anything else. It goes through art of living, because Acqua di Parma not only crafts iconic fragrances, but it also crafts beautiful pieces of art of living that can be of daily use or more exceptional masterpieces. And then we are guardians of the temples also, among many others, but of Italianity. We have this honor and responsibility, which is being ambassador of not only the made in Italy, but of what it means being Italian and the meaning of Italianity across the world and to export it in an elevated way, not in a cliche way, and to nourish it and to make it relevant all the time.

20:45Can you define some of those values that make Akudiparama what it is in that bottled summer vacation? Because there are values that I observe of the house, which are an appreciation for the beauties of life. And there's this playful undertone of Akudiparama. There's this familial undertone of the simple beauties and pleasures of life and this love for nature, this love for sun. But I know I have a very simple view of this and I'd love to deeply understand who is Acqua di Parma. What are the values that a person who loves the brand feels aligned with? You know, it's important we remember how Acqua di Parma was born.

21:32It was born in 1916. It was created by an aristocratic person coming from an important aristocratic family from Parma. Parma was at the time the capital of fragrance in Italy, because since 1816, when Marie-Louise, the Duchess of Parma, arrived in Parma, she was fond of flowers and fragrances, and she created around the court of Palma the culture and she supported the creation of the industry of fragrance in Palma. Palma became the capital of fragrance. So Carlo Magnani, the founder of Acqua di Palma, was raised in a family that was treasuring art and beauty, but in a city that was specialized also in fragrance.

22:26He was a connoisseur. He was a discerned, you can imagine, traveling all around the world. He was also trading in textile. Funny enough, trading in textile from England and importing into Italy at the time, beautiful textiles. And he was an elegant person. He was fond of art. And he was traveling extensively for business or for pleasures. And at a certain moment, he decided he wanted to create something different from what the fragrances in fashion at the time were. You know, the French fragrance is very opulent, very rich with a high projection. And once again, we come back to this beautiful image of Versailles.

23:14He wanted to create something very different. He wanted to create something for himself and for the people close to him enough to feel this fragrance. And he wanted this discreet, refined fragrance to be embodying the sun of Italy and the atmosphere of Italy during his trips. So he created this fantastic Eau de Cologne, Acqua di Cologne, with those beautiful signatures of citruses on top, supported by these unique and charismatic but very discreet aromatic notes more on the bottom. This fragrance was for himself and for his very close friends. And after a few years of people close enough to him complimenting, he decided to distribute it in a very discerned, if you know, you know way.

24:16And so through Taylors, Acqua di Parma was distributed. So elegance, refinement, discernment were clearly values at the root of what was created. And it's funny because tailors were spraying Acqua di Parma as a final gesture to the suit that they were creating. And this is the way, according to the legend, the founding myth of Acqua di Parma, that Acqua di Parma became familiar with actors and very important people traveling to Italy during the 50s, the 60s, the years of La Dolce Vita. They were having beautiful suits tailored in Italy. And the final touch, you know, the invisible touch of their silhouette, the last one was a spray of Acqua di Parma.

25:09And they brought back this piece of Italy. And this is how Acqua di Parma became a well-known fragrance among the, if you know, you know people. And then in the 90s, three amazing entrepreneurs made in Italy, Luca Cordero di Montezemolo who was the presidentissimo of Ferrari at the time an amazing entrepreneur Diego della Valle of course owner of Todd and Paolo Borgomanero who was also an amazing entrepreneur from Italy they spotted this beautiful little yellow pearl of Acqua di Parma and decided to finance its development they opened the first boutique of Acqua di Parma in Monte Napoleone. And then they decided that yellow had to become the truly iconic colour of Acqua di Parma.

26:07So everything became more and more yellow in Acqua di Parma. And this yellow was at the same time reminding the sun of Italy and the facade of the Palazzo of Parma and the citruses that are the head notes signature of Acqua di Parma. And started, also thanks to Diego de la Valle, started and his leather expertise, started developing not only as a fragrance brand, but also as an art of living, brands on leather goods. And it was a ultra luxury fragrance brand. And then at the beginning of the 2000, LVMH spotted this beautiful pearl and start to develop it at the international level. Wow. I'd love to go back to the tailor story you were talking about.

26:55I know you told me once I was asking you about historically how is Acqua di Parma applied because I've seen people apply fragrance on their wrists, on their necks, on their whole outfit. And you had mentioned that people outside of the tailor were also spraying their foulards. Their foulards, absolutely. And their neckerchief and tying it around their necks, right? But yes, this was the way at the time people were applying fragrances, absolutely. And so Acqua di Parma was not an exception. Carlo Magnani at the beginning was applying Acqua di Parma on his foulard. And once again, this is why it's considered to me as part of the silhouette.

27:39It's the invisible part of the silhouette. And why it's invisible? Because it's a fragrance, but it's a very discreet fragrance. There is a sillage that is elegant, that is there to please you. And once again, the people close enough to you that can appreciate it. You mentioned once, I remember in one of your most famous posts, smell good, not strong. Aqua di Parma is 100 % about that. Even those days, even in these days where people are asking for sillage, projection, longevity, I think we have to remain true to ourselves. We don't have to compromise our philosophy, our projection, as expert people call it, is always being toned down.

28:36It's going to be discreet always. Of course, we want to be relevant always and we're working on our longevity. So Acqua di Parma will be always a very discreet sillage, but with a unique way in order to have an association between sillage and longevity. You talk about the silhouette that Acqua di Parma is a part of, and it's something that you talk about a lot. To me, a silhouette is the picture someone paints of themselves through the way they dress, hold themselves, and express their values, who they are, how they want to be perceived through jewelry, fragrance, clothes, and other ways of expression.

29:25I assume that's a far more basic definition than what you have for silhouettes. How do you define the idea of a silhouette? And what part does Écua du Palma play in your eyes? I believe your silhouette can be seen in two ways. You know, it's the sum of the garments that you're wearing. or is your aura, your allure, as French people would say. So it's something very much linked to a dynamic and flowing image, in my opinion. It's very much linked, hence, to color and to movement. This is the way, if I close my eyes, I define silhouette. It is one's own way of capturing color and movement. Of course, this is part of the sum of accessories and garments, etc.

30:46And what I love about Acqua di Parma, at Acqua di Parma we use two words to define everything that we do. And those two words are very different. We say vibrant sophistication. In Acqua di Parma, we want everything we do to be refined, sophisticated, timeless, to be rooted in the best craft ever. But at the same time, we always want to bring the heritage that was in the founding myth of the brand, la sprezzatura, of the founders and entrepreneurs that we mentioned before. And la sprezzatura is the capability of being elegant while playing with the codes at the same time. is the capability of giving the impression that you don't care where you care, but you know the rules so well that you give yourself a license not to apply them literally.

31:55And this is very much linked also to the exuberance of the Italian character, to the lightheartedness of the spirit in Italy. And so I believe that the contribution of Aqua di Parma to the silhouette of a person is this combination and this contrast of refinement and sophistication, but at the same time, unexpected vibrancy, lightheartedness, exuberance, and playfulness somehow. I love that. As always, so eloquently put, but also so digestible. When you describe these things, it makes very clear sense. And so, for instance, in my silhouette, the color is brought by the fragrance. Yep. It's the neutral navies, but then you have the...

32:46And by myself, I believe. And your personality. Absolutely. This podcast is brought to you by Poubel, by the Stand Guy, allowing you to express all the things you love and all the things you may question on interchangeable charm jewelry that can be combined to create bracelets, necklaces, handbag, accessoires, and much more. From iced matcha and reformer pilates to sauna buckets and a pair of skis. All the things you love and even the things you question can be expressed through poubelle on the topic of the fragrance there are colognes eau de toilette and perfumes are there any other categories that are missing under the fragrance umbrella you know when we talk about when we label

33:45subcategories in the category of fragrance we very frequently refer to the concentration. So Eau de Cologne indeed is historically a light concentration followed by Eau de Toilette, Eau de Parfum, Parfum, and then since younger clients and some consumers today, clients today are going more and more for sillage, while there are many, many new initiatives across the market of more concentrated juices like extracts, for instance. And then it becomes also not only a technical label, but a marketing exercise in which maisons tend to innovate, labeling new concentration in new ways. But yes, basically Eau de Cologne is a very light water with very low concentration, Eau de Toilette a little bit more, Eau de Parfum, d 'un Parfum and an extract.

34:54But there is something interesting, or there is a myth that discern people know and new clients not necessarily know, is that concentration doesn't define the quality of a fragrance. If we talk about garments, it would be like saying that heavy garments are of a better quality than light garments. And we both know that this is not necessarily true. just because they use more fiber. We both know that this is not necessarily true. So quality is very much defined by the quality of the ingredients, by the process of extraction, and recently, and we're going to talk about it maybe later, the quality of the enhancement of what is extracted and then the masterful creativity of the nose behind in playing with those notes and in composing.

35:55This is what defines the quality of a fragrance. Then, of course, this quality can be applied. If it was a garment, this could be applied to a very light shirt or a very heavy coat, but it's not the concentration that defines the quality of a product. Marisa, all the rest. I can very easily make the decision of windy day, let me wear a gilet. Sunny day, I'll wear a light shirt. I cannot make that same decision clearly when it comes to choosing a colonia, an eau de toilette or a perfume. How do you differentiate your uses and decide which type of fragrance makes the most sense for a type of moment?

36:46You know, already, historically, things have changed. Because historically, people were having a signature olfactive. And so very frequently, they were having one fragrance, defining themselves and signing their presence and their personality. Having one signature scent. Exactly. And not having anything else. Even myself, when I was younger, for many years, I was adopting, I was choosing a signature and I was sticking to that for many, many years. Times are changing. And now people, they like to express themselves more and more by the way they dress, but their style and hands also by their fragrance.