Hyle Consulting Founder: Riccardo Pozzoli – Building Brands, the Italian Dream, & Tradeoffs That Define a Life

32:11Everything is going quite well. Our kids are young. And I mean, for example, Romeo, our oldest, the boy, when mom is traveling too much, trust me that he's making her understand. I remember. He was calling you in Saint-Tropez when we were together. Oh, exactly. So he's kind of telling you. So, you know, there is also another joke that we always make between Gab and me. And we say, like, when you become parents, anyway, you are losing. Because if you are traveling a lot and you're super happy and satisfied, then you're feeling guilty because your kids are at home. When you're at home with the kids, you're saying, oh, my God, I should work a lot.

32:51So, again, this is just a joke to anyway make understanding. It's always a trade-off between things, for sure. So you just need to find your right balance, you know. and it comes with time. I'm not even sure that the kind of balance that I have today, it's going to be the same in two years. For sure, it's not going to be.

33:11The Gstaad Guy:I love what you're saying about being aware of the goal, but not knowing the process along the way and adapting along the way. And I know that with you and Gab, when you first met, you had this beautiful spark you've spoken to me about, but I never actually asked you how aligned you were and how communicative you were about what you'd want to work towards. and what that ideal path looks like. Did you very early on in your relationship align on this vision? Yes, I think so. Yeah, I mean, not I think. Yeah, it was, I think, I mean, you know Gab. Gab is very vocal. He's telling you a lot of things.

33:50And I think that probably not the first, but probably the second date that we were together, probably she told me, dude, I want a family. I want a lot of kids. I want to have love all my life. I said, okay, that's okay. Where do I have to sign? You know? But also she's always told me I want that, but at the same time I want, you know, personal satisfaction and business satisfaction. I said, okay, we're two. It's easy to, if we are aligned about that and we are two and we work as a team, it's very easy to kind of, you know, to build it up. So yeah, we have been, it's not easy, you know, to find somebody that is telling you that maybe the second date but i've been very lucky and i'm very lucky but i think uh should be something that maybe a couple that is feeling very strong feelings between each other should speak quite soon you know because if then you are letting your feelings you know overtake everything and then you understand at a certain point that you have a different vision for life, there are two options.

35:01Or it's going to be very painful or one of the two needs to change. And that's also an option. Maybe one of the two maybe can, you know, do a sacrifice. But I always think that doing too many sacrifices in life for other people could be unhealthy, you know, for the relationship.

35:20The Gstaad Guy:I love that you mentioned that you were lucky that Gab opened up to you and mentioned her intentions and desires. But I think Gab is equally lucky that you were open to listening. Because I think when it comes to dating and career on both sides, there's actually a lot of parallels when it comes to voicing intentions. I think people who have the intention actually deep down have the desire to voice it. And they're very aware of them. When you meet a romantic, a potential romantic partner or you start a new job, you're always thinking about why, right? Like you always know, I want this job because I want this new house or I want to pay off this debt or I want to elevate on my career and I want to date this person because I want to get married and become a parent and X, Y, and Z.

36:08The Gstaad Guy:But the reason why people don't share it, I think, is they're scared of the consequences. Whereas in fact, as you've very well shared, the consequence can only be positive. And I think people should be more comfortable speaking of intention sooner because if the intentions are mismatched and you walk away, it's better to walk away early than to walk away late. Absolutely. And from career as well, to make it very clear to your employer that, by the way, the reason why I'm doing this is for X, Y, and Z and this is the role I want to grow into. I think that transparency is just like the transparency you had with yourself to say, okay, this is the life I want is a very powerful transparency to share with anyone you collaborate with romantically or professionally.

36:53The Gstaad Guy:So it's a great thing. You know, transparency can never be wrong. Like never, literally in any, in no situation in life. The real problem is that, I mean, problem is not a problem, but the issue is that being transparent is making you more vulnerable. So obviously then if you share and if you don't find something, the same thing on the other side can become painful can be painful, can be hard to handle and that's why a lot of people are avoiding that but I completely agree with you like being able to share that kind of vision in life or in your business absolutely should be one of the first thing and when you're thinking about business even more as you are saying like being able to share and engage all, you know, the people working with you on your vision is fundamental to get to the goal.

38:00Because it's like a big crew of a boat, you know. If somebody is rowing in that direction, somebody is rowing in the other one, man, it's going to be hard. Already life, already business life, it's not easy. So then if even your crew is not, you know, aligned with you, it could be hard. Absolutely, I agree. and did you experience anything like that in your business I'm not gonna go on the personal side for the moment

38:25The Gstaad Guy:on the personal side not yet I mean I've had beautiful relationships I'm very grateful for but I haven't gone down a path as committed as yours just yet on the business side I feel like I'm married to the world of Stad guy I think I've had the blessing of perspective of being able to work for others and work with others, but also then work for myself. And I think seeing both sides of that coin, as you've experienced, is just amazing because you can see the intricacies and the mechanics of one of these big businesses and then build on your own while having made mistakes and made learnings with someone else's business, but also with someone else's resources.

39:10The Gstaad Guy:I think being an entrepreneur, one of the scariest things is failure because what's at risk is you. But when you're failing in a company or with a company, what's at risk is fine, your career, but it's mostly their resources or the company's resources, which when the company is hiring you, they're actually usually willing to put at risk what they're willing to lose. These big entities and organizations make these calculated decisions by design. So I think it's really important to basically date before you get married, right? in the world of career to date these bigger businesses and gain experience in the real world before being an entrepreneur to actually first be an entrepreneur and in many ways learn from a path similar to what you've done oh yeah sorry I didn't want to interrupt but I mean I completely agree with you and I published a book a few years ago I mean the title is Create Uniqueness How to Turn Your Passion into Business and thankfully it went quite well so i started you know receiving a lot of messages and emails like how i want to do this i want to do that but i realized that a lot of people they don't have clear ideas in mind like they just want to be entrepreneurs you know like oh i have this idea i want to i want to become an entrepreneur maybe the idea can be super smart but how to execute that and how to be out there you know doing your business is something hard so i always suggest always always also because I've been in many universities many business schools like speaking about you know my book and whatever anyway my experience and always I always give this advice like guys go to work with you know for big companies like try to experiment try to learn try to fail absolutely like failure is fundamental to learn way more than successes so try to go in those kind of environment where even the failure is protected and then once you learn also some processes once you learn also from others because for example me i've been a and i never really i mean i have to say that i did almost the opposite because i've been an entrepreneur straight out of business school for seven years and then i went working bigger companies sometimes i'm feeling that i learned more in the last years of my life than in the first because i was an entrepreneur everything was going well in moreover i was an entrepreneur into social media back in 2010 when instagram didn't even exist so basically uh you know i didn't even have a benchmark i didn't even know if i was doing right or wrong it was just that okay it was working for somebody so okay good let's keep going so sometimes i was really feeling confused like i didn't have a guide you know i was you know just by myself taking decision and doing okay let's do business this let's let's do that and at a certain point i said okay yes went well, happy, that was great, but what I learned literally, because to learn something you need to fail and see that something is not working because I know that it's working that way.

42:19Sometimes when you are doing something and it's just working you don't know if it is working because you did well or it's working because you have been lucky, you know what I mean? So then yeah that's what I'm always saying, you know, giving the same suggestion and advice to young people like go, learn fail, do, you know, some mistakes in bigger companies because then you're not losing, you know, you're not risking so much and then in case be an entrepreneur.

42:51The Gstaad Guy:I really like that you say that particularly with the focus on young people who are thinking about these paths. And I think about this a lot about my 21, 22 year old version of self and what I was thinking back then. and I realized that when we're 21, 22, we, for most people, have just come out of a system which really values outcomes over process. I think as long as you're not cheating in school, if you're getting the grades, you're getting the grades. How you get there, if you go to bed super late or study early in the morning, none of that really matters. All the system really cares about is the outcomes.

43:31The Gstaad Guy:And then when you come out of the educational system, you become very outcome obsessed at whatever process necessary. And people don't really think about the importance of the process and the path there in many ways, which in the category of problem solving is understandable. If someone needs to pay off their student debt and the outcome is the most important thing, it's absolutely understandable. But sometimes the desires for outcomes are fueled by things like status or labels that they think are cool for the sake of being cool, like, for example, creative director, and like, for example, entrepreneur.

44:09The Gstaad Guy:They may not have thought about what that means and what that entails and how hard it is to actually grow towards a position like that, which leads to confusion. And I think the mismatch of expectations in reality is the biggest reason for confusion. And I think the age of 21 to 22 is the age of confusion. I think the listeners who are in that age group were like in between jobs, just finished uni, applying to all these jobs and getting rejected because now AI does what they thought they were going to do. It's like the most confusing age ever. And I think the only prescription that I could, with respect, of course, to anyone, to prescribe is experience.

44:50The Gstaad Guy:The experience you're talking about. It's failing on something you try or failing on something you try with someone else or with another entity. but exactly as you're saying, to put yourself in these positions where you can work on anything, just to really understand the process instead of overcomplicating these outcomes. Because although, like you mentioned, you had these desires for goals and ambitions, they all end up taking a lot longer than we would have thought. I know on my side, anything I thought I would achieve in two years ended up taking four or six, if at all. Yeah. So. Yeah, I mean, the process, you need to have some passion for the process.

45:36I agree. Always. So, but as you are saying, like if you are over-focused on the outcome and you don't get that the process to get there is part of the outcome, it's going to be quite hard. Also, because as you are saying, like you don't know what's happening. And even more in the day, I mean, in the kind of world that we are living nowadays. Like you can have a COVID in the middle. You can have, you know, I used to invest in a lot of startups, tech startups and COVID like there's been like disastrous moment for them. Like there were teams that they were raising a lot of money and then they calculated that if they were raising enough millions by the end of that month, they would have lived or not.

46:21And maybe just because of COVID, you know, all the fundraising stopped from one day to the other. Like literally always living, you know, with that kind of approach toward the outcome, it's very risky, very, very risky. And nowadays, like you always need to understand that, I mean, as we were saying before, like the goal, it's fundamental to have in your mind the goal. At the same time, you have to enjoy the path, the journey to get to the goal. and also I also would say that flexibility is also very important also in understanding that the goals can evolve during the path so you can start from here to get there and then you realize that when you are getting close to there then maybe there could be even more interesting so maybe you take a turn and you you know so that that's quite important and and yeah and even working when you're very young working in big realities can make you can also show you different things different aspects of the business that you obviously you cannot even know because you're too young you've never experienced so yeah that's quite fundamental in life I think but in general not just business I mean even in a personal relationship experience I'm not speaking just about romantic experiences I'm speaking about friendship, like when we, you know, obviously everybody is growing in a certain family, in a certain environment.

47:58And always being able and try to push yourself to get out of your comfort zone and experience other things that you don't know. And obviously they are scary because you don't know. but can make discover also some side of yourself that maybe you don't know and you're never going to have the chance to know and maybe also make you understand that you like things that you were not thinking. So yeah, comfort zone is the dead zone for entrepreneurs but also in business life in general and for growth. Yeah, I agree.

48:36The Gstaad Guy:This podcast is brought to you by Poubelle, bringing you interchangeable charm jewelry hand-painted with enamel on styling silver, allowing you to celebrate all the things you love and all the things you might question through interchangeable styling silver bracelets, bangles, whoop, charms, mini-charm, bracelets, rings, cufflings, and much more, and all customizable through our 3D builder on poubelle.com that is poubelle p-o-u-b-e-l dot com. Thank you so much for watching and now back to the podcast. I want to turn back to Hile, your consulting business that you're running. I know that both of us swim in similar waters in terms of the clients we work with and the worlds we find ourselves in, which is the world of luxury.

49:27The Gstaad Guy:Yep. And we've spoken in the past about how from the moment we've met actually how quickly and differently luxury has developed and how the consumers of luxury have developed. And I think a great way to see that is the types of clients you're working with today with the Junkers airplanes, with the Icon Expedition yachts. Both of these categories of luxury are incredibly experiential. And if people just Google the plane business or the boat business, they'll see that the desire for that sort of product is clearly fueled by a desire for exploration and less so a desire of status, which I think was much more the case 10, 15 years ago, even just before COVID as well.

50:16The Gstaad Guy:What do you think has shifted in our worlds that I storytell about and you build businesses in that has pushed people and founders to go more down the path of exploration versus status within the same consumer group? I mean, I think that we could make a podcast episode just about this question, and I'm really also curious about your opinion, but I will try to start and then even here, we don't know about the outcome, so we're going to just build it out. I think that we have to consider many factors in this, But for sure, COVID is one of those. Social media, globalization, a mix of those. Wars somehow, instability in general.

51:14So I would say that status was a bit the, you know, the main focus of probably 90s and 2000s, you know. So it was the period in which all the major European countries, they, you know, they were at the peak of the growth and they, let's say, that it shared richness, let's say, or wealth between, you know, the mass in Europe and the United States. So finding, you know, the way to get to a certain status was, you know, the main goal. and then in 2010 2011 2012 instagram was born 2012 um we had a completely i think also change in the perspective of consumption and uh inspiration let's say um i still remember i did my my thesis dissertation at the master in marketing was uh i i ran a a survey about around you know people how was changing the perception of a product so so um if you were seeing that on a fashion magazine or if you were seeing that on a on a street style street style picture and it was crazy how uh the perception was completely different and way easier and easier even to use the product when you were seeing on the street style picture.

52:51And that has been a great revolution because the world changed. The world completely switched even from the fact that having some things was not even more a status, but was more for, you know, like, or, I mean, not that it was not status, but was not the only, you know, the only, let's say, value of something. So definitely we completely changed also the idea of getting to a luxury item, you know? And then we had all the, I mean, all the, we can call it fast fashion phenomena. We had all the overconsumption. We have the globalization that brought, you know, a lot of trend all around. And then we have social media that sometimes are over showing stuff, you know?

53:36Like we saw, you see something and that you think it's something great, that it's something that is making you distinctive. And then you're seeing so much all over social media that And maybe, you know, sometimes it's even, you know, taking off some value from the title. And all those factors, I think, that somehow are bringing to probably two, three main trends right now in the luxury. One is the experience. Something that I don't, you know, a lot of consumers, they don't care anymore about owning something. Because anyway, it's going to be copied. It's going to be anyway on social media somebody else will have.

54:17But what I can really have just for myself is an experience. Maybe other people they will have, but I don't care, you know, what they are doing in their life. But for sure, right now, in the moment, if I'm living this experience, it's just for myself. And I want that. Otherwise, I want something fully customized. So luxury today is also fully customization. So if I'm choosing everything and I'm choosing the piping and the color and the fabric, obviously, that is going to be unique. Or otherwise, something that is really the best in class. So saying, okay, I'm not even buying for status. I'm not even buying for experience.

54:52But I'm buying something that I'm sure is the best made ever. I can afford it, obviously. But it's not even the problem. I mean, it's not the topic. The topic is that I want the best chair. So I'm going to buy the best chair. Because it's renowned. Because they have history. Because, I mean, I don't know. Maybe they've been making that for 100 years. those are probably today the main uh trends some some brands are even you know surfing between them so not even not necessarily uh or one or the other for example uh when we when we speak about you know explorer yachting we're speaking about busting class in terms of manufacturing you know shipyard materials sailing capabilities um we are speaking about something unique because it's one piece is one off.

55:41There are no cop, I mean, it's not something, uh, industrially produced and we're speaking definitely about experiential because an explorer yacht can make you live experiences that nobody else, uh, maybe can live. Not, not because it's not even, you know, the hundred meter, beautiful white yacht that you are, you know, docking in front of Mykonos or Ibiza this summer. It's not that. It's just something that can bring you in places where other boats cannot get, or maybe helicopters cannot even fly because of the weather condition, but that kind of yacht can get there. That's true. This is something, for example, that the yachting industry is experiencing right now.

56:20And think that between all the luxury industries, yachting is the fastest growing industry, I mean, sector of luxury right now, exactly because a lot of people are looking for new experiences. I mean new experiences during holidays how to experience sea in different way and yachting in general is living that kind of growth and explorer yachting even more like I mean obviously still a niche in the big industry also because of the let's say also the buying capabilities that you need to have because to have a proper explorer yacht anyway you cannot have a 10 meters boat you're not going to be able to have those kind of capabilities so even in terms of let's say price obviously we're speaking about something quite exclusive but yeah so getting back to your question I think that today being able to live unique experiences it's something that is the ultimate luxury nowadays

57:27The Gstaad Guy:I agree fully I love those points But at the same time, it's not the unique one. This is very important because still keeping in mind that having something well-made, perfectly made, is fundamental. And even more compared to, you know, even more if you look at the kind of overconsumption that we have today still making things properly, I think it's going to become even more in the next years like the right thing. I fully agree. I think one of the main drivers of this shift is actually the access to information our generation has today, that knowledge is very easily accessible. And as a result, I think consumers have become more discerned than ever.

58:20The Gstaad Guy:and when people learn about a luxury product or experience and they understand how it's made, they can quite quickly figure out if the status associated is warranted or if the status is fluff and storytelling. Yeah, absolutely. And if they haven't yet, it's always a matter of time. When a business, for example, raises prices disrespectfully to the client, it may work for the first couple of months, but eventually the client will do some research and understand, okay, how is this product made? What materials are they using? What's the story behind it? And is that price really worth it? No matter what the budget may be.

58:58The Gstaad Guy:I don't think status on fluff can last anymore because too much knowledge is too accessible. Absolutely. And I think when it comes to experiences, the investment one can make, especially with these incredible and extravagant trips where people can see corners of the world that have otherwise been very difficult to access, the price is far more justifiable and the desire is far more justifiable. So to add on to what the list you're sharing, I think knowledge is definitely a big thing and definitely a big driver. I agree with all the different shifts of COVID. I think another shift is also safety.

59:35The Gstaad Guy:I think the wealth disparity in the world is horrible and there's some very sad macroeconomic reasons for more petty crime and more crime fueled by wealth disparity, especially in big cities like London and Milan. Absolutely. And I think people want to stand out less so they can be more safe, which is understandable. Another change in status, like you said, is the social media. I think a big driver of experience and status associated with experience is to be one of the few discerned and connoisseurs and there's a saying I've said in a couple of videos, which I think is a saying that's been said many times before, but when the happy few are no longer few, the few are no longer happy.

1:00:29The Gstaad Guy:And social media makes people feel like they're no longer the happy few. And that's a big part of status. And this perceived status is being one of the only ones. I was there before you. I was there when there was no one else there. And now everyone's there, so I don't like it anymore. And that feeling happens so much faster now because of social media. When people used to discover a restaurant, it used to be able to be a secret for five years. Now it's a secret for five days, partially because people like me ruined the secret online. But also just in general, in society, people really want to share moments, you know.

1:01:03The Gstaad Guy:So happy few is rarely few anymore. And if it is few, it's often gated by this price exclusivity you were talking about. I think nearly anyone in the world can agree an expedition yacht would be an amazing thing to experience, but it's a very difficult thing to experience financially. So I think those are some of the drivers, but fully agree with your points. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, what you're saying is very true. But indeed, in one of our... I wouldn't avoid one day, maybe we will suggest in Heil Consulting to some of our clients to close down the social media. Like today, like maybe three days, three years ago, I would have said that's impossible, you know, you cannot not be there.

1:01:51Today, I would say yes. Maybe you obviously speaking about somebody that is, as you are saying, is aiming to make just some few happy. But if you have that as vision, why not? like could be even an option nowadays. Because unfortunately, sometimes social media can really become a boomerang. Again, we're speaking about luxury items or luxury brands that they don't need to sell millions of pieces maybe because otherwise social media still can be a very strong weapon to get awareness, to get conversion, whatever. but I think that also finance trends in the past years, the growth and the push growth of some brands, you know, at a sort of unhealthy trend, you know, like, okay, like the stock market needs to arise, so the stock of this brand, if I'm not growing at least this amount every year, like the analyst, they're going to put my title down, you know, whatever.

1:03:00Like they created all these mechanisms in which it's not healthy. Like if you think a luxury brand by definition should be for few people. And you cannot. So how you can grow or you raise the prices if you want to make your revenues grow or you sell to more people. But that's against your definition of luxury. And as you are saying, you cannot disrespectfully raise prices. or you do brand diversification, but even that can be very dangerous. You can deal with the value of your brand. So we should... It's very complicated. Yeah, it's very complicated. And I think that it's not so healthy for luxury brand to be public.

1:03:48And sometimes being unpopular and taking unpopular decisions, if we can call them unpopular, could be quite good for a luxury brand. But unfortunately, unpopular decisions don't match with public markets. That's true. So that's also a big topic. There are brands that maybe they should decide, you know what, next year I will do minus 10 % in revenues because I need to create this durability or I need to, I don't know, close this section because I think that the production is not at the level that I want. that you cannot take those kind of decisions if you are the CEO of a public company.

1:04:28The Gstaad Guy:Only if you have 10 other brands that can take over the growth. Yeah, exactly. If you have a brand portfolio so you can manage, as a lot of luxury group they are doing, and probably that's the strategy. But still, it's very risky for the single brand. It is. It is, absolutely. Yeah, with a private business, family-owned business in particular, the value of the shares is irrelevant. Really what happens is the priority becomes the longevity so they can lose 10 today to gain 20 tomorrow and it's fine. So it makes sense. So one of our mutual friends, as you know, Giulio Bergamaschi, CEO of Acqua di Parma, has amazing definitions and views of what Italian luxury is and how Italy stands out compared to other parts of the world where luxury is a big part of that country's DNA, like France possibly.

1:05:17The Gstaad Guy:And as a Milan native and as a founder in Milan and someone who's very involved in luxury businesses in Milan. I'd love to know from you, what is the world of luxury in Italy and what does Italianity mean in the world of product, craft and entrepreneurship? I mean, this is a very, let's say, warm question to me because in Persol, we really work a lot around Italianity And we kind of really try to explode this concept quite, you know, at best. And to answer to you and saying what Italianity is in the luxury world, for example, compared to the French meaning, that I think that there are quite good, you know, shades of difference.

1:06:16italianity is still the i would say obsession for details in doing and i mean in let's say obsession for details in the artisanality so what really italy italian luxury still stands for is that we we still make things with hands by hands and this is for example like in every person there is still written, I mean, the legal office is letting me do it, handmade in Italy. And to me, this is, you know, like, it's such an Italian also flavor of thinking that real people touch that pair of glasses, you know, frames that you're wearing, thinking that there is a real human passion in that. It's not just, you know, something more, let's say, ethereum, but it's something physics, it's something real, it's something even basic sometimes, but always driven by a human passion.

1:07:20And this is very Italian. And still in the luxury industry, if you think about, I don't know, the shoemakers, or, I mean, even in the food, in the luxury food, if you think how much passion in making things by hand, it's such a part of Italian luxury.

1:07:42The Gstaad Guy:I'm very grateful and blessed to have worked with many Italian businesses and people who share those values and desires in Italy. I think Milan in particular is where I've been exposed to, but there's an amazing hub of creatives and creative people who want to take part in the world of luxury in Italy, which actually, I think, fuels a lot of the creative industry here. What does that look like on the career side for many young people? Are those things you're talking about part of the desires of why a young person gets into creativity in Italy? Is it a love for, in your view, is part of the desire to get involved in the luxury world in Italy?

1:08:28The Gstaad Guy:fueled by love for the craft and the passion for that artisanal touch or is it maybe fueled by outcomes because it's a successful industry here that pays well i'm curious about behind the scenes the mechanics what that looks like unfortunately i have to say that uh i don't want to sound old you know the old guy from the industry but unfortunately i i think that a lot of young people are more attracted by the outcome that you know the process and as we were saying earlier and the process uh you know is but but but i think the process is so fascinating and but i have to say that this probably has been the trend of the past 10 years, but I think the trend of the next 10 years will change.

1:09:24A couple of weeks ago, I was in Paris and I was at the main, I wear trade show in the world and I hold a couple of lectures about craftsmanship in front of some clients. And I brought, I invited a couple of artisans from Laureano that is close to Turin and is the historical factory where we still make 100 % of the persol. And between them, there was a guy that is 26 and he has been working in the factory for a few years now. And I exactly made him this question and said, why you decided to do this? And he told me, like, being able to personally touch that product every day with my hand, shaping it, and then seeing on, I don't know, Leonardo DiCaprio face, it's the biggest pride of my life.

1:10:26Like, when he said that, I said, we want millions of young guys like you, you know? Like, that was everything, you know? that was exactly i mean i was emotion feeling you know listening to those words and seeing that young people they are understanding the value of you know crafting something then obviously dan was on the face of a big celebrity or you know whoever um that's that's a you know the status let's say but that's okay i mean you have to to aim also to that kind of satisfaction but everything is starting from making something like literally you know crafting something and that's important that's fundamental in our job I mean when you're you know hand crafting object every day but also as a manager there are also a lot of things that you can do to make it more and more you know possible like what I did not because I did it so I'm saying it's right but everybody is doing that but you can do a lot of those things like being able to empower also those kind of people you know, the people that are working with their hands every day on the product is fundamental unfortunately not all the companies are really giving them exposure and I think it's a mistake I think that everything is starting from the product as we were saying earlier Like if the product is not well done, we're just here telling stories, you know.

1:12:03So the product must be perfect. And when you're doing something by hands in Italy, if you don't have passion for what you're doing, it's not going to be perfect. And to make it perfect with passion, you also need to be entitled to what you're doing. You need to be exposed to the result of what you're doing. And I mean, everybody is just part of a great, you know, machine, let's say. but everything is starting from there. So that's also, I mean, in our strategy, for example, in the elevation strategy of Persol, the first thing that I did was to open the door of this factory. Like no one went visiting this factory for a long time, like for 20 years.

1:12:43And the first thing that I did was to bring people and, I mean, bring influential people, obviously, journalists, influencers, even clients, you know, agents from all over the world and meeting the people that every day are crafting, you know those beautiful pieces of acetate so everything is starting from there and but if you are not recognizing that as a top manager of the company like how can you how can you be you know how can you build that conscious around the product so yeah i'd love to better understand the motivators behind someone like this young man you're talking about who's very

1:13:28The Gstaad Guy:much passionate about his craft at a cultural level for Italy. I'm very much aware of like the American dream. I think most people are because of media and conversation about this desire for success with no or little resources that are possible in a country like America. Is there something that is culturally uniform about some sort of Italian dream that people are on the same page about? no i don't think so i don't think it's the same you know kind of dream in italy in in italy first of all we have something that i think is let's say milding a lot of dream from a certain point of view that is lifestyle and what i'm saying it's weird and probably could sound even wrong to a lot of people but when you experience Italian lifestyle, you kind of understand that you don't need to become the biggest billionaire in the United States to live well.

1:14:34You know what I mean? La dolce vita is a real thing. Yeah, it's real. Like dolce vita in Italy is real. It's a real thing. You're eating great. You're meeting nice people. You know, Gabriele is French and a couple of days ago we went buying shoes for our kids.

1:14:57Close to the area where we live, there is still a manufacturer of shoes that has also a little corner in the factory where they are selling for people living in the area. We went there, but the kids, they were at school. So the lady, the owner of the factory that was selling still in the store, told us, guys, take those three, four boxes, you just try it home and then you bring back what you need. Do you want also coffee? And my wife was saying, I love Italy. This kind of worm every time you meet somebody. That was the first time that this lady was seeing us. We could have just took five pair of shoes and never went back.

1:15:39But it's not even a topic. Obviously, I hope I don't have the face of somebody that could do that anyway you know appearances uh can be wrong but this kind of you know also way of living in italy is really making making sometimes not necessarily those as objective and on the other you know on the other side um the this young man was telling me like my life i i love my life you I like what I'm doing every day. And even more, I love that I'm learning something that is quite unique, that is made here. And Noah, in no other places around the world, are making eyewear as we are making in this factory.

1:16:29And even more, he was feeling very entitled because it was older people teaching him, older people that they did that, that mastered that kind of technique for 40 years, that they were teaching him how to make eyewear. You know, again, like, it's... Everything is very Italian in what I'm saying. Like, in the idea that I don't need to be the richest guy or to change the world with the new app or the new technology to live a great life. To live a great life, I need, you know, basic good things in life, and that... you know, thankfully, luckily, a lot of people living in Italy can achieve, can have.

1:17:17But also I need passion. I need love for something. And when you have love for what you're doing, you're happy, you know? And that is making you happy way more than probably than many other, you know, big satisfaction that you can struggle to reach and then maybe reach. And maybe then you're done. That's true. And you're done in what? That's true.

1:17:41The Gstaad Guy:When I was walking here this morning, I felt so grateful to stop at a random coffee shop, have one of the best espressos of my life for a euro and 50 cents. yeah you know and i know milan is is an expensive city with an expensive cost of living and salaries that are low are low they make it make it difficult to enjoy a city like milan but in many ways that experience i think portrays some of what you're talking about where the gentleman making me my coffee was was so happy making me my coffee which costs a euro and 50 cents and when i was in the u.s recently paying nine dollars for a coffee where the guy hated serving me the coffee i mean it's not representative of the entire country but just that one experience i think it comes back to what we were talking about process versus outcomes where the american dream that's spoken of very often is incredibly outcome focused whereas this this young man you're talking about crafting sunglasses, is clearly very process focused.

1:18:46The Gstaad Guy:He has a deep love and passion for process, while the drivers of the American dream of success to be happy and being a founder to be happy is very outcome focused. And I think those come with two very different lifestyles. When you're process focused, I think you can enjoy things along the way. and when you're outcome focused i think you delay pleasure because you think you can only enjoy things once you've achieved something yeah so i have no idea which is healthier i don't know the answers but i think there's definitely lots of beauty in that italian way of living yeah and And also probably this kind of approach is saving a lot of stuff in Italy, like saving a lot of also craftsmanship and companies.

1:19:40And, you know, also a lot of software fair is still here because there is still this passion for learning and doing. But yeah, unfortunately, then obviously without the American dream, we wouldn't have a lot of, you know, the great for sure achievement that we had in the past 50 years. That's a no brainer. But nowadays, when we speak about luxury, we need cultures, like also the French one, by the way, in which the pleasure for making things sometimes is bigger than the pleasure of selling things.

1:20:19The Gstaad Guy:I think this is a good transition to a game we always play on the podcast, which is the game of Fantastique versus La Fouvelte. I would love if you could share a few things that you personally celebrate in the world around you as fantastique and things you would love to change as à la poubelle Okay, so let's start from à la poubelle À la poubelle, I would say everything that is formal, let's say like, you know, having formal fear of missing out So, I mean, I still, I'm not in the place where everybody's going or I still want the product that everybody has. That's definitely a la poubelle. Like, please, guys, like focus on what you really like and what you really feel for because it's really overrated what everybody wants.

1:21:14And that definitely. And at the same time, I would say also showing off a la poubelle. But I will say because even if you have the chance and the luck to having a lot, as also you were saying, like nowadays disparity can be very, very big. and you kind of also have a responsibility somehow not to put too much pressure out there because not everybody had the same, you know, starting points that maybe you had, maybe not even the same skills, maybe not even the same luck, you know, or opportunities that you had. So, and also social media can empathize things. so sometimes I mean trying to I don't know like but putting down the tones could be very helpful for everybody so showing off a la poube that's not nice at all that's true I agree and but fantastic definitely something that you taught me kindness over everything

1:22:31The Gstaad Guy:I didn't teach you that but I appreciate the credit but you've been kind from the second I met you yeah But I mean, the first time that I met you, I said like, this is the nicest and kindest guy that I met in my life. Oh, thank you. And being kind to everybody in the same way. I mean, I think it's one of the more fantastic thing in life. And sometimes I think like, anyway, being a jerk or being nice take more or less the same time and the same energy. So just be nice. It's a lot easier. And for yourself and for, you know, the world out there. And another thing that is very fantastic is definitely, you know, being authentic and being true to yourself.

1:23:21Again, you know, like nowadays you can see, I mean, we all live in an environment where we get so influenced. So we get so many inputs from peers, from social media, from society, from a place all over the world, on the other side of the world because of globalization, because of many factors. But really being able to kind of challenge yourself to what you really want and go for it, it's so cool and so charming. So it's so fantastic.

1:23:57The Gstaad Guy:I love it. I agree. Cool. Absolutely. Well, Ricardo, as always, so great to see you. My pleasure, really. Thank you for taking the time today. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. And for leaving the magical lake view to the cloudy city of Milan. It's, as always, really great to talk to you. And thank you for sharing all your amazing thoughts. My pleasure waiting for you on the lake, man. Thank you. I'll be there. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Stad Guy podcast. If you're keen to learn more, please follow along by engaging with our social channels on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, YouTube and Apple Podcasts.

1:24:38The Gstaad Guy:And we look forward to seeing you next week. Merci beaucoup. A la prochaine and a big hug from the Start Guy.