Nadine Ghosn: Owner of Nadine Ghosn Fine Jewelry - Pencil Bracelets, Burger Rings, Entrepreneurship, Balance, Anxiety, & Romance.

0:00We are back on the Stad Guy podcast with my dear friend Nadine Gohn. And Nadine Ghosn is the founder of Nadine Ghosn Fine Jewelry. You may know her work as the famous burger ring, the Crayola bracelet, the pencil bracelet, and many more. And Nadine started her career in a very different way, studying psychology and arts and economics. Definitely not psychology, but that's my mission now. It was economics and arts at Stanford. Okay. Then working at BCG Consulting. And then joining Hermes. and ultimately leaving Hermès to pursue your own path. And we now find ourselves on a similar travel circuit for both of our careers, which started off quite different until I started to also make jewelry.

0:51And we've, in the past couple of months, been in LA together, Shanghai, St. Moritz, and a few places in between. people confuse us for dating, but we're actually invited to very similar events. It's a good PR for me. We're not dating. We'll get into that. We'll get into that in this podcast. Please, please. Around the world with your host, the Stardguy, we welcome you back to the Stardguy podcast, sharing stories of excellence with those in the know for those who just know. So it's so great to have you here today. Well, thanks for having me. It's lovely to be here. I love your house. Is this your house in LA?

1:39This is not my house. This is a house that a friend is very kindly letting me film in. His name is Max Nobel, and he runs an amazing real estate development business and interior design business called Nobel. They build these amazing homes, and this is one of them. So it's not your house yet? Not my house yet. Hopefully after this podcast, people buy a lot of fubell, and I don't know. Who knows what could happen? You never know. You never know. You never know. Well, thanks for having me. I'm here and open to questions and to sharing a bit of my story great so feel free to quiz me please this is this is my first I would say interview or uh what is it podcast so bear with me great we're all bearing I would love to know why jewelry and why did you leave your job to do what you do today and what you're in many ways famous for today?

2:33So jewelry has always been what I've been very passionate about. So you like look at pictures of me when I was like three years old and I was decked out in jewelry. I have three siblings and it's funny because each one of us had were like passionate about different things. One of my sister who's a huge nerd asked for books and I was asking for jewelry and my sister was asking for dolls. And so you see these pictures of me at three and I like three necklaces on, five rings, like earrings on, you know, it was always kind of where my interest flowed, but my career track was very different. Like I was in, I was born into a family where my dad's an engineer.

3:09And so for him, career and education is very key. And I followed that path for a very long time until at one point, I realized that path wasn't working for me. So I went to Stanford and double majored. And at the time I was the only person who was doing economics and art which was considered very weird and I didn't really understand but I had this like pull towards both and then I went into consulting for two years and it just really wasn't for me and after that I had the opportunity of working with Hermes which is very strong I would say creative company that's to me one of the highest luxury brands where I learned quite a bit while I was there.

3:51And I was also challenged because it was a new cultural realm. Like going from California to Paris and being in a different culture influenced me. But then at the time that we were defining my career next steps, I was turning 25. I think we weren't aligned from a cultural hierarchical perspective. You know, I was coming from a school where people were building companies and like didn't matter what your age was. It was it was more about your capabilities. And in France, it's a little more old school, you take your time, you know, you stay somewhere for 10 years, etc, etc. So I was just at a different pace.

4:27And at that time, I was like, you know what, I want to learn something tangible. I've done a lot of like consulting work, but I haven't gone into the nitty gritty. And I had read a lot of I read a lot of books. And one I've read a lot of self help books at the time. And one book was talking about like finding your flow like what is something you do where you lose yourself completely and for me it was just like going into my jewelry box and like purchasing jewelry and so there was definitely an attraction there that I decided to explore and I was very lucky because I started at a time where social media Instagram was like building momentum and um you've been doing this for 10 years I've now been doing this for 10 years so you can do the math uh 25 now I'm 35 years old.

5:13And I have to say, I like built out a career that I'm absolutely in love with. I'm like never bored. I'm meeting great people. The challenge I faced when I was in consulting, I was like, I really don't admire the people who are above me. I don't aspire to their lifestyle, their family, like everything was imbalanced. It wasn't like my version of success. And so I'm building my own version of success. And yeah, and what that looks like to me. I love that you talk about that experience of opening the jewelry box and feeling that excitement I think most people align align with that but I had a similar feeling not so much with with a jewelry box but when I started Poubelle it was I was having dinner with a friend of mine actually mutual friend Alex Icon and he was telling me why do you run Palais Constance the rosé brand that I started.

6:06That's because I think it's a great business. He said, well, I think it's about time because he knows I don't even drink. But he said, I think it's about time you work on something that you love. And the only thing I see that's consistent about the way you dress and the way you are is these bracelets you wear. And I was wearing all these random bracelets from travels around the world, often just like one euro from these destinations. And I felt that that was my way of always having a piece attached to me of expressing who I am. And your experience. If I wore a suit or a tuxedo or whatever it was exactly in my experience and who I am.

6:43And I feel like in a similar but different way, your jewelry does the same about you because you're someone who I've seen navigate so many different rooms in some very serious rooms with very serious conversations and some where we're just clowning in the corner and where you can be so playful and youthful and fun and others where you can be so serious and in this whole other headspace. And that's really what your jewelry expresses. It's this extreme elegance and material intricacy and the best materials, you only use 18 karat gold. But at the same time, you're literally wearing a bicycle chain around your neck, a stylobik pen from school, a pencil, a chewed pencil, and three Crayola crayons made with 18 karat gold.

7:33And that's this category that I like to call playful luxury, which is kind of who you are as a person. It's definitely a juxtaposition. Yeah. Is that what you were intending to kind of express your identity in your product or was that just an outcome of your work? I think for me, the North Star, I mean, again, starting a brand at the time was like unheard of and not necessarily applauded in my family. Like you didn't go to Stanford to do a jewelry, like that was kind of the dialogue. so it really took self-reflection and I guess in that what I had learned from Hermes was at the end of the day they were very true to their DNA and for me what I wanted to accomplish is express myself through my jewelry at a time where jewelry was very conventional and very fragmented and for me there's like this playful element and this nostalgia that I really like because it reminds us of our inner child.

8:38And so I try to play with that, but I glamorize it and augment it, these everyday objects or these things we come across through the craft. But at the time, like people were like, no one's going to pay, you know, for that in jewelry, which was a decision I think I made. And one thing that's really important is that obviously I represent the brand, which was a decision that was not an easy decision, but it's under my name, my story, my everything, but that that journey is being reflected in the pieces that I wear or that I make. Um, it's kind of like you, you know, like you're saying, it's all memories, it's experiences, it's, you know, and I have the same thing.

9:20That's what drives every collection. It's, it's kind of a continuation of my journey. And what's even more special is then people can ascribe their own meaning to these pieces but these pieces are meant to remind them of their inner child and that inner child is this like pure curious kind element it's very human and that connects us um and that's kind of like what drives me I would say I love that inner child thought and I think it really is so clearly expressed in the jewelry you make and also the way you hold yourself because you have this amazing contrast. And I think so much of the beauty of life and the things we love are these extreme contrasts and contradictions, like from food, like, you know, warm rice, cold fish and sushi, warm cake, cold ice cream.

10:13And with... Are you hungry? I'm kind of hungry. I mean, I feel like all we've done together is eat the past two days. But it's, I love the contrast of what you do and the collaborations you've done. are actually so extreme on the contrast side of things, which is, it's very rare for collaborations in particular, because I think most brands who collaborate try to maximize excellence. Like I do my best brand A and you do your best brand B. And we come together to create something we can't create alone, right? But as a jewelry business, if you told me, okay, Nadine, the jeweler is going to collaborate, I would assume maybe with someone who focuses on timepieces, but instead your first collaboration was McDonald's on the Bling Mac for one of your iconic pieces, the burger ring.

11:02Can you please tell us more about that? Yeah, I think, you know, you and I have spoken about this a bit before, which was, you know, now I think collaborations are definitely at the forefront of a lot of brands and players. And at the time that I started 10 years ago, it wasn't necessarily expected. But that for me, the driver is creativity. And sometimes there are these like genuine dynamics that you build with someone and it brings you together. So when I, the first big collaboration I would say I did was with McDonald's and no one would have expected fast food and fine jewelry. And some people, their perception was don't, don't work with McDonald's because that might dilute people's perception of your brand at this price point.

11:46But for me, what I liked was the paradox was the unexpected element of it. And also McDonald's is a household name. Everyone knows it. And it reminded me of the time I would go as a kid and get a happy meal. So there was like a story around it and it was a great experience. And that relationship happened because they reached out to me. But today, for example, I'm working with Crayola and Crayola is like every kid gets to play i mean we were coloring with crayola at the beverly hills hotel the other day like it's just such a it brings out this inner child just even seeing it playing with it coloring with it and that's the experience or the feeling that i want to bring up um in people and naturally some of these really like natural relationships are built with these brands which is really cool experience i love that i mean i think that being in touch with your youthful side is a luxury, right?

12:43It takes time and resources to have the freedom to be able to, as an adult, play around like a child, right? And I think that's why your brand resonates so well with a lot of people who have achieved tremendous success. A lot of people who have achieved tremendous success like to portray that image and others like to actually portray a completely different image and I think some of your customers public facing are that I've seen online like Justin Bieber Beyonce please help me list a few more Drake Carl Lagerfield little Yachty little Yachty little Yachty I mean that's no joke how do you does that shock you or excite you or has that always been a part of your plan how does that make you feel I'm like super flattered by it even today I think, I mean, let's go back.

13:37When you go off the beaten trail and take a risk in life, you have no idea where something's going to land. And I always remember the version of me 10 years ago that wrote down a business plan or like the things that I would strive to attain through the business, you know? And I don't like these celebrities weren't even part of where I would try to land the brand. I'm still a one woman show. So no press team, no, you know, so it kind of naturally happened. And I'm very, very, very lucky. And I feel very blessed with these relationships. But I mean, I'm still very humbled by them, you know. And so you can aspire towards things, but you never know how it's going to turn out.

14:19People say that I'm very creative and I'm very, you know, but I'm also very lucky. I came at a time where I could portray my brand. I came at a time where people are willing to wear something that's a little outside of the box, wear a piece that starts a dialogue, take that risk. Because when I first started, there was kind of like a starter pack. You joke around about kind of like different starter packs, what people wear and whatever. It was like Van Cleef, Cartier. There was the classics, and there wasn't that much room for a new brand to kind of enter the wrist market. And now it's a little bit different.

14:55And I'm very lucky that that's worked to my advantage. But like this industry has a lot of challenges. And I always say like you've never really made it. You're constantly going to be faced with different challenges. And one challenge today in the industry is really the gold prices are insanely high. A lot of the manufacturing are being bought out by big brands. So that's leaving very little room for young brands to come in and like manufacture, especially when you're not playing with volumes. So there's, you know, I'm always learning, which is amazing. And you have to think on your feet.

15:52It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. I love that you talked about the right time, right place thing about this moment that we live in. And I feel the exact same way. Like if I was born 10 years earlier, there's no way I'd be sitting here right now and frowning with all these videos for a living. You know what I mean? it's just a I was born into a an era where there's value in these comedic videos and it could spread and in a similar way there's a lot of value from social media that has helped scale what you do but you've done a great job doing it you've done a great job like building you know your followers no but I but at the same time you're open to adapting and changing as long as it's aligned with you I think a lot of people lose sight of having that alignment which is why they disappear they follow a trend and like and I think that kind of understanding yourself is super key I mean I wanted to actually go a bit deeper on the right time and and and moment because maybe the the right time for our businesses ended up being the wrong time for the development of our lives.

17:08And the reason I say that is because I think jewelry, historically, at least from my experience, like my mom's friends growing up were like, oh, I started the jewelry business. Always seemed like a sort of hobby job. You know, it seemed like this more laid back thing where they worked a couple hours a day, but they also chilled with their friends and it was like a chill job. and I'm a founder of a jewelry business today and it's very different. And my entire team is women. I'm surrounded by women on the team and it's extremely different for all of us. And they say like, this is not what we expected.

17:46And we're competing with a lot more people. We're competing with a global audience and the amount of hours you have to put into a new business today to make it work is different to what it once was. and I see that taking a toll on your social life as a friend because you are all over the world at once. You are working 24-7. You have zero employees, which I find insane. You've built all this completely on your own and you're just always switched on. Whereas 10 years ago, maybe you wouldn't have needed to be or been able to be. So I'd love to know more about how you feel about the position that you've become successful in?

18:33Yeah, I think one thing you've touched upon, which I think a lot of people don't understand, is, you know, I'm so grateful for the brand that I have and my career and the life experience that I have, but there is the cost to that, right? And there's, you know, it's not all the glam that you see on Instagram. There's so much work behind it, whether it's emails, logistics, payments, issues, you know, dealing with celebrities, travel, delays, you know, a lot of break-ins, you know, whatever it is, there's challenges that go with it. Briefly with no names, can you tell our viewers why you came to LA for how long and where from?

19:15No names. I came to meet a client who's a celebrity client who I made pieces custom for. So I'll just leave it at that. But like, again, that's so new for me and how you navigate that space. yes I flew from Hong Kong I if you open the door I will take every opportunity you know to build a real human relationship and to be inspired and to get to know someone because I think jewelry is very emotional but I mean and I was stuck with you I hung out with you way more but that's you know let's not go there you know sometimes you aim for the stars and then you just end up on the hill but um the Beverly Hill the Beverly Hill exactly but um I think the point that I'm trying to make is that a lot of people are like, oh my God, you have such a quote.

20:00And I'm like, yes, I do. But there's also a lot of work that comes with that. And I think we're in a generation where people don't want to go the extra mile to like make things happen and think that everything just falls in their lap and it doesn't. I think you have to effort and you have to put yourself outside of your comfort zone and it comes at a cost. And like for me personally, that cost is I'm 35 years old, what I thought my life would be is at 35, I would have two kids, a husband, you know, live in a house, have a dog. I didn't think I would be on planes every three days meeting celebrities.

20:37Like that's not the life that I envisioned. And I'm not sure that's the way I would define success. For me, success is actually a balance of career and the family component. And I'm not very happy with where I am on an emotional level in the family realm, because I feel like I kind of miss the boat when I see my friends who have their second child, their third child, and like I'm there on a plane going to an art, you know, event. And I think it's important to highlight that because there is an opportunity cost to the decisions you make. And I take full accountability for mine, but at the same time, I want to move in a direction where I can continue to build a business while still take care of myself as a female, whether it's freezing my eggs and stuff like that to secure that lifestyle and that family that I want to establish.

21:29Thank you for sharing that. No problem. Are there moments where you've considered actually parking this and going all in on that life? yeah I mean I think I actually it's something I think about very often because I think that it's very I love my craft and I love the creativity and I love the financial freedom what like what actually brings me joy is spending time with people having real connections relationships having a routine like I really value these very simple things that other people might take for granted. And I want to weave more of that into my lifestyle. And one of the reasons why, I mean, I feel I grew up in a household where, you know, I was encouraged as a woman to be independent.

22:31And I'm very lucky for that. I'm very privileged because that mindset has helped me build, you know, what I built and continue doing what I'm doing. But at the same time, there's still a part of me that wants to build a family and all those things and it's like the clock is ticking you know you look great I I I think that we're both active on social media attending all these events and it looks very glamorous and it is very glamorous and I know that you share the gratitude that I feel and a lot of the audience is often asking about the behind the scenes and aside from the lunch we post and the event we post what's going on in between and for anyone who lives a similar life they understand there's actually a lot of alone time alone time that I'm grateful for and that is a choice but nevertheless alone time how do you navigate those moments and how do you feel about all of that in between yeah I think I think loneliness is a big thing.

23:36And I think that being an entrepreneur requires you to get comfortable with yourself and with being alone. And I don't think that most people are prepared for that. I definitely wasn't. I grew up in a family with a bunch of siblings. I went to school where people were always around. So it was a bit weird to shift. And it's a challenge. I mean, like, again, I told you two days ago, I was eating alone with my notebook, spending time with myself. And I've gotten so comfortable over the years spending that time alone because I've gotten to know my myself better. But I always say to be a good entrepreneur or leader, you have to really be in tune with yourself.

24:10And like growth in a career, like also requires personal growth. And I have a coach, I have a therapist, I have, you know, traumas that I've gone through that I want to make sure that I address so that I can be a good leader so that I can be patient, you know? And I think that those things are also very important. And I see that being integrated more into my job. Like talk about loneliness. Like, I mean, going to meet a celebrity or like people are so different. You're not really prepared. And like, for me, I don't have someone to talk to about it. Right. Even from a personal perspective or from a work perspective, I don't have a teammate coming in or, or get like, it's a lot of being able, forcing myself to be outside of my comfort zone.

24:56Um, and like getting used to it. And I'm constantly challenged outside of my comfort zone. We talked about this. Most people probably think we're extroverted, but I'm actually quite introverted. Um, someone stops me on the street. I get nervous. Like it's not that I'm being rude and I apparently have a resting bitch face, but like, I'm just not used to, cause I'm in my own world a bit. Um, and trying to bridge who I am and make sure that's communicated in my interactions. If I'm jet lagged, if I'm feeling low, if I'm, you know, these are all things that you have to constantly address and it's real for sure i mean you talk about not having that person to share moments with in a personal uh the way not having that person of course is is partially circumstantial partially choice you're looking to find that person but in your business life that's purely a choice and i've had that conversation with you so you um have those moments alone that you go through alone, that you actually seem to like to navigate that way and not have colleagues around when you do those things?

26:02I mean, I think everything is a choice, right? There's the positives and the negatives. The positive is that I can be extremely flexible. I can take full accountability. I can push, push, push. Like I can be on any time zone, et cetera. The negative is you don't have that support system. You don't have this ability to delegate, you know, you kind of create this team environment. I would say now the closest people to my team are my manufacturers because we're working on things that are different and new and challenging like the mechanic, the manufacturing capabilities together. And that creates dialogue, but from a decisions basis, like should, I don't have someone being like, girl, you just got on a plane two days ago for 14 hours.

26:41You shouldn't get on this plane to go there because I'm not sure that makes sense for you, you know, because my default is to really, you know, go for every opportunity. And I'm not, it kind of comes at the detriment at times of, you know, my health. And, you know, for some people, it could be their mental health. But I think for me, I really create a structure so that I don't fluctuate. And I have people who check in with me with regards to that. For sure. I mean, if I may, I think that what you've done is tremendous and what you continue to do alone is incredible. But it reminds me of something my mom told me growing up and she still says it to me.

27:22She says, be careful how long you're single for because the moment you get used to being on your own and making decisions on your own, it only gets more and more difficult to share decisions. and we've seen that you know our friends who are single for a long time and they enjoy it and then they get into a relationship they're not used to sharing their space and and sharing moments and sharing decisions and compromising and the same thing happens in a work environment yeah I know that from my side I only started growing my team a year or two ago I've been doing this for six years it's really hard to get constructive useful feedback at first when there's so much pride and so much soul in everything you've done and built with your own hands.

28:06But you've also had to protect what you've done. You have to like, you know, you have to. And so you become very, I would say, strong and like steadfast, but that's not necessarily a healthy thing. I mean, it's brought you to where you are today. But I do find that when I started to let go just a bit more and let colleagues and knew what they were doing, I was able to focus at least 10, 20, 30 % more on myself and myself outside of work. This is all about work, by the way. This wasn't about your dating life. It's not my business. But I know you have a big desire to focus on your health more and your mental health and your physical health.

28:53and it sounds like that may be difficult to do when you are full-time the only person doing your job yeah I mean I think that we need I think we're in a generation where more and more women have careers are like striving for something different I mean even from a jewelry perspective like there used to be a lot like jewelry used to be something purchased by men for their wives now the wife has like the power to go and choose what she wears and that tends to be the client that comes towards me, you know, like there's been a shift in the way that we are empowered, I would say in this generation, but at the same time it comes at a cost.

29:28And, you know, I think that a lot of people talk about their success, but they don't talk about the difficult decisions they had to make or their regrets. And one thing I don't want to do is in 10 years be, you know, I don't know, top brand, whatever, every magazine, celebrities, et cetera, but like actually not have a family for myself or have built an intimate relationship with a partner because building is very important to me. And I built a brand that I'm obsessed with and I built like from a creative perspective, but I also want to build in my personal life. I want to build a partnership.

29:59I want to teach my kids things that, you know, I wasn't necessarily taught. I want to deal with things that probably I would like to redo in my life or like my childhood and, and teach them. And I think that probably a lot of the things that I wasn't able to do in my childhood are manifesting creatively in my brand. And that's probably where that connection comes from. It's very healing for me to play because there wasn't so much play. I was born in a family where we were traveling a lot. We were very tight as a unit, but at one point divorce happened. There was an explosion of that unit. I had to adapt.

30:37And so there's like this survival mode that's deeply ingrained in me that I want to kind of like hone in on, address, and, you know, work on. I mean, I'll be honest, whenever I see you, you seem so incredibly put together and presentable. And honestly, and this is me leading up to asking you out there. This is honestly, and I think everyone that meets you thinks, while this woman has her shit together. And it's inspiring and it's incredible that you're opening up about what actually is happening behind those doors where you're actually struggling. And if you don't mind me asking, could you share some of those moments?