WHOOP Founder & CEO: Will Ahmed – Physiology, Prevention, AI, & The Future Of Health

27:03The Gstaad Guy:Absolutely. I felt it myself. It's been a game changer for me to understand myself. What's been a surprising thing you've learned from the journal? The time I go to bed. is more important than the hours I actually am in bed for. Isn't that interesting? And it's probably that it's consistent or not. Exactly. So sleep consistency, we've done a lot of research on. It's also one of the things that's in our health span score because it's so important for your overall longevity. Sleep consistency, for people who don't know, is going to bed and waking up at the same time. And a fair amount of research was done on consistency versus hours of sleep.

27:45Now, it's not to say you want one and not the other, but they were actually able to show that sleep consistency in that of itself is more important than the amount of time you spend sleeping. So going to bed and waking up at the same time is in itself a hack for getting less sleep.

28:06The Gstaad Guy:I have a hard time with it because I'm traveling lots. Travel is the killer for sleep consistency. It is, yeah. But I'm doing what I can. hey hey you look good you seem cognitively very strong i'm not worried about you i appreciate that i appreciate that thank you when building whoop it sounded like you were solving for a curious customer a health and wellness first customer who had to first opt into this type of lifestyle it was a very rare thing 13 years ago less rare 10 years ago a lot less rare today yeah i think you're definitely a part of that culture there's a lot of the longevity bro culture has been fueled by opting into habits and accessories like a whoop so it's it's become a thing right but you must have seen something about society and about the consumer long before that culture even existed that you wanted to bet on?

29:10The Gstaad Guy:What was that? And where have you seen it grow? I think the technology trend that I got right was this idea that computers were going from being on your desk to being on your lap to being in your pocket to what I expected would be eventually on your body or even in your body. that seemed kind of like an inevitable process. I mean, I started whoop a few years after the iPhone came out. And so it seemed likely to me that if we could have something that powerful in our pocket, we could have something that powerful on our body. In terms of anticipating how much people care about health today, I think it was more that I cared a lot about health.

29:59Like I cared about my body and my performance and exercise, and I wanted to understand myself. And that was the initial seed for this obsession. And at a minimum, I knew that a lot of athletes cared. And so that was that initial target market that Whoop was going after. But over time, as I saw how valuable the data was that we were collecting, it was obvious to me that this technology was much bigger than just athletic performance. It was the key to really understanding humans in general. Today, there's been, I think, a whole cultural movement around longevity, which Whoop is obviously contributing to and benefiting from.

30:41The Gstaad Guy:Absolutely. You know, the podcasts of Andrew Huberman and Peter Atiyah and these bestselling books, Why We Sleep and Outlive and, you know, even people like Brian Johnson who say they want to live forever. It's just changing the narrative, right? And you see alcohol consumption, at least in the United States, is at an all-time low. But then separately from the cultural side of it, you also see just how screwed up our healthcare system is. And again, I'm speaking about the United States, but I think there's some themes globally. Healthcare system in the United States costs$4.6 trillion a year. Wow.

31:21And that's up from something like$1.2 trillion just after COVID. it. So this is going up at a dramatic pace and no one thinks that it's an optimal system. So you have a lot of costs and you got low NPS and you got probably the most important problem there is, which is all of our own health. So it's an exciting space to be building in. I mean, we feel like we have a big opportunity to help humanity live longer, live better. we have a company goal of adding a billion healthy years to humanity wow so essentially it's looking at everyone's health span and having it be over time a billion years younger uh which obviously is going to require hundreds of millions of people on whoop but it's uh yeah it's an exciting

32:13The Gstaad Guy:mission to strive for every day absolutely we're we're getting there i'm seeing more and more people wearing the whoop every day having this the company's growing it's and it's growing a lot internationally i mean we're we're here in uh in dubai which has become a great market for whoop and the uae i think has really had a culture of innovation and and pace and longevity so it's it's matched well for this this market especially absolutely what have you found to be the biggest lifestyle hacks for people to dramatically improve their group metrics quite quickly let's try to do this chronologically so in the in the evening it's going to bed and waking up at the same time so that's sleep consistency a lot of people say well yeah i know I got to sleep more.

33:12I still have time for this. That's fine. You're still trying to sleep six hours a day or six and a half hours a day or seven hours. That's like a quarter to a third of your life and you have no idea what's happening there again. So start measuring your sleep and start going to bed and waking up at the same time. That alone is a huge unlock. You can dramatically improve the quality of your sleep by not drinking caffeine after 2 p.m., being hydrated, not drinking alcohol, and avoiding food within three hours of bed. If you just do those things, your sleep quality will go up a lot. What about temperature of the room?

33:55Colder is better. Fine. So you want to have a cold bedroom, dark bedroom, good air quality, lack of noise. You know, ideally in your bedroom, if you put your hand like this, you can't see your hand. You want that thing pitch black. And if you're like us and we travel a lot, I would travel with a sleep mask. So whenever I'm in a hotel room, I don't care how nice the hotels are that you stay in. they don't get that dark because there's all these weird little lights in hotel rooms and they drive me nuts. And so I always wear a sleep mask in, in bed when I'm traveling, you know, exercise movement.

34:44Those are huge unlocks for life. Ideally you can do real exercise hard, you know, three to five days a week. If you're not into exercise, trying to walk a lot and to get your heart rate into zone two, that's really beneficial. You get a lot of credit for that, so to speak, from a longevity standpoint. From a diet standpoint, you know, whole foods versus processed foods, lack of sugar, that does you a lot of good. If that's your only sort of frame for diet, that'll get you pretty far.

35:23The Gstaad Guy:This podcast is brought to you by Pubelle by The Stard Guy, bringing you charms hand-painted with enamel on 925 sterling silver, allowing you to express all the things you love and all the things you might question, from reaver bateaus to baggammon board and caviar tins to paddle rackets. There is a Pubelle charm or completed set for everyone in The Know. Thank you so much for watching and enjoy the podcast. Well, all of these things you're talking about, a lot of my most passionate whoop-using friends, like my friend Constantine, have been preaching and living by long before their whoop. So when I see someone wearing a whoop, sometimes I can make those assumptions.

36:12The Gstaad Guy:And sometimes you can tell someone's in great shape, they're wearing a whoop, it makes sense. Sometimes I see people wearing a whoop now in particular. I'm like, oh wow, I did not expect you to be wearing the whoop. And I think that is either one, they're embarking on a big change and they're wearing it because they want to be part of a healthier lifestyle and grow and improve. And sometimes it actually has to do with the social signals involved and the high status involved today with being health first or being perceived as health first. Well, I love that observation because just to be clear, when I was founding whoop, the idea that a health monitor would have a positive connotation was a crazy concept.

36:53You know, for the most part, medical technology has been kind of stigmatized. If you're wearing a health monitor or, you know, a medical device, it's like something's wrong with you. So the idea that wearing WHOOP is this positive symbol is a big deal for us. We're very proud of that.

37:11The Gstaad Guy:Yeah, it's an amazing new thing that's happened. I think it's partially fueled by dangers involved with the alternative. I think for a number of reasons, people are wearing less jewelry and in a lot of urban environments because they're scared of being robbed or they're scared of that status signal, in which cases a whoop is a great way to kind of be understated. And in other ways, it actually has that effect of I'm health first and being so health conscious also is a luxury. It takes time and resources to really be longevity focused, although it doesn't take much to get your sleep right, to really optimize and go far beyond and be a biohacker in every shape and form takes a lot of resources and time and their status involved.

38:08The Gstaad Guy:So I think some people are opting into that. The people who don't even charge their whoop, I've seen a few of those around, who don't even use the metrics. They just want to opt into the status. But for the most part, I think people are using the features. For the most part, people wearing Whoop are using it. But I mean, the status symbol has gotten positive enough that you're right. There are probably people who wear it who aren't charging it. Who aren't charging it. Yeah. What do you think has happened since COVID time, I would say, to allow for a product like Whoop to become so popular, not on the problem-solving side and on the prevention of health issues with the growing problems in health systems that you mentioned, but more so on the status side.

38:58The Gstaad Guy:What has happened to make health tracking high status as you are very happy about? I mean, COVID was fascinating because it underscored one of the reasons that I founded Whoop. like the founding story of whoop was this idea that feelings are overrated you know i can feel how my body is so i'm going to train hard and i'm going to train hard every day and all of a sudden one day i woke up and i was just exhausted and i didn't know why well i couldn't actually feel what was going on in my body that was a story of overtraining but COVID was a story of not feeling whether you were sick. COVID was this weird moment in time where people realized you could be asymptomatic, but carrying a virus that if you exposed a loved one to could get them very sick.

39:56And I think that was, uh, it was a trippy experiment for a lot of people to realize like, maybe I don't actually know what's going on inside my body. And in fact, with WHOOP, we were able to discover that respiratory rate was a predictor of COVID. And I got so many messages, and this probably affected tens of thousands of people on WHOOP, where they saw an elevated respiratory rate on WHOOP without even feeling sick. But that elevated respiratory rate, they knew signaled they were sick. And so they would get tested, and sure enough, they would have COVID before they felt symptoms. And it reaffirmed this idea that you can measure things about the body you can't feel.

40:41So that was one, I think, big wake-up call for all of us as humans during COVID, which is this idea that there's things going on inside the body that I can't feel, but I can measure. And that obviously ties to the importance of health monitoring. The second phenomenon, and I think that's happened over the course of, of the last five years is people have just realized that the technology to measure your body has gotten really good. Like whoops gotten a lot better in 13 years. And particularly, I think it's gotten a lot better in the last few years, but to have a product that can really accurately measure the body as accurately as, as a lot of what was historically medical technology and have a 14-day battery life and have these rich data presentations on your phone that you can access in seconds and have AI built on top of it so you can have a conversation with your data and feel like you've got this, you know, 24-7 coach or doctor that wants to tell you about yourself.

41:40You know, it's empowering. And so I think that there's been a great convergence of excitement from the market with real technological innovation.

41:53The Gstaad Guy:I feel it absolutely as a consumer. And that's when I made the leap into becoming a Whoop user. Oh, thank you. Where do you see AI playing into the Whoop customer journey beyond the conversation that I can have about my metrics and things I can improve? I think there's two different ways to think about AI. One is through the lens of the experience that a consumer has. And the other is through the lens of data insights. In terms of the experience that the consumer has, we want to facilitate a relationship with Whoop where you feel like you can talk to it at any time. And that could be text, that could be voice, maybe even one day that's video.

42:41But it's this idea that there's an AI on the other side of all of your Whoop data that is able to observe all of your Whoop data and memorize everything about you and within half a second respond to any question you might have or more importantly alert you about something that you didn't know. And then in terms of the AI capabilities for actually understanding the data, the second piece of this. We're now training on 24 billion hours of continuous physiological data. So that's one of the largest physiological data sets in the world. And we're using that data set to be able to be able to predict what's going to happen next.

43:25So the same way that an LLM predicts the next word, whoop will predict the next heartbeat. And we think that's the path to being able to predict heart attacks and strokes and disease states and illnesses and all of these different things that humanity should know about their health. And when you can predict those things, then you can shift the whole space of healthcare to preventative care. You're not seeing a doctor when something bad's happened. You're seeing a doctor before something bad happens.

43:58The Gstaad Guy:do you already have cases of WHOOP saving lives? Yeah. I mean, I probably get a message at least once a week that's like, subject, WHOOP saved my life. Wow. And it'll be a story about a woman who was in bed and she woke up in the middle of the night and she felt something with her heart. And next thing you know, she took the ECG and the ECG told her she had AFib on WHOOP and WHOOP explained more about it. And she goes to the hospital. And next thing you know, she's having open heart surgery. And thank you so much. Whoop saved my life. Well, so amazing stories. And there's been, you know, different versions of that story.

44:39And I think where Whoop will get even better is being even more proactive about it. You know, it doesn't it doesn't need to start with the person saying I kind of felt something and then I saw it in my data. We want it all to come directly from Whoop to the consumer.

44:55The Gstaad Guy:Well, how big is the Whoop team now? We have about 750 employees. Wow, that's awesome. It's very cool building a team. It's hard to build a team. You have to find like-minded, hard-charging people who want to be disruptive. What do you look for in people in building your team on top of being those things? So we have a hiring criteria that we look for, but it includes intensity, humility, grit, ambition. And we added a new one called AI readiness. Okay. Intensity is being hard charging. Like you want to solve some problem in the world. Like you're energetic and you're driven and you're going to figure it out.

45:52Humility is realizing in the pursuit of being high intensity, you don't have all the answers. And so that in itself is a good counterbalance because people who are high intensity can often be a little bit arrogant. And people who are high humility can sometimes be meek. so high intensity high humility in itself is an unusual combination that we look for uh gritty you know a lot of a lot of what we do is try to solve problems that haven't been solved before and what's hard about that is you face a lot of challenges i mean you you keep discovering the wrong path it takes a while to find the right way to do something and people who are gritty when they get knocked down keep picking themselves back up so we like to hire for grit ambition this is i think a very important one to maintain as the company gets bigger because we want people who have the ambition of creating a whole new health system of creating products that don't exist in the world.

47:08And that requires a certain type of person. That's not every person. You have to be somewhat audacious and ambitious in your pursuits if you want to do that. And then AI readiness, that was really a recent addition just in the sense that the way we work is changing. We need to use the latest and greatest tools and many of those are AI native tools. And so we want to hire people who are going to embrace that shift in the way we work versus resist it.

47:46The Gstaad Guy:So you exist in this unique intersection of medicine, tech, AI, sports, wearables, health and wellness. Yeah. And I assume you're trying to attract the best of the best talent from those industries, all which come from very different work cultures. Yeah. What is the culture like within the business? Well, it's become, I would say, an idea meritocracy in the sense that the best ideas can come from anywhere. Because you have very different skill sets, often in the same room together, there is a collision of ideas that happen. and that's where the intensity humility piece comes in like you want there to be a collision but you want the best answer to come out of it to be the right answer for the company not oh i came up with the answer right and that ties back to the idea meritocracy

48:47it's a it's a culture where i think we believe that we're capable of doing a lot and creating a lot, again, that ambition piece, you know, when you tell someone they're going to be working on something that's never been done before, it tends to have sort of two very different reactions. Either someone's ears perk up and they're like, oh, cool. Or someone's like, well, that doesn't make any sense. That's crazy. And you want the people whose ears perk up, right? And so I think we do a good job screening for those types of people. And as a result, we've got this culture of we can do it. And there's a little bit of a David versus Goliath attitude for Whoop, too, because 700 people is a lot of people, but it's a small number of people relative to the companies we've competed against.

49:39I mean, we've competed against these big gargantuan companies like Amazon or, you know, Nike or whatever. And at various points, those companies have tried to pretty aggressively knock us off and copy us and kill us. And, you know, we've stood our ground, so to speak, and we fought back. And so I think we've built a culture of the underdog can win and we're going to stand up for ourselves.

50:09The Gstaad Guy:And which of those categories of business that you are in the intersection of, do you feel the most affinity towards as a founder? Well, I personally spend a lot of time with the product team and the marketing team. I think I've had a generally good pulse on what do we need to build and what should the brand feel like. And getting those things right has turned out to be a differentiator in the market. A lot of good companies, a lot of great companies have had trouble with what their product does and what they stand for. so that's an area of the those are areas of the business that I spend a lot of time and then I'm always spending time with with you know people and trying to recruit great talent and you know trying to nurture the team and grow the team and learn from the team and you know you really are about as good as your team I like those things you're looking for your team because they're things I'd want to look for in France yes like that's true something you'd want and just get people around you yeah they're nice things to look for they are and and they're hard when you when you create enough of these things you you get a tighter lens on your screening process yeah the ai readiness portion i find really interesting because i actually i'm trying to understand how that's measured i think ai can elevate most of our our work processes today but how do you figure out if someone is maximizing on the ways they can elevate their work quite early on in your interview processes that i assume you want to flow quite quickly you know some of its anecdotes are people using the tools on weekends are they curious about new products that are coming out?

52:16Have they been trying those products? In their current work today, have they used these tools? Have they saved them time? What are ways that the tools have not been as helpful as you thought? Typically speaking, if someone's really used tools and AI tools and explored AI, they actually have a fair number of critiques whereas someone who's kind of faking it will just talk about oh chat gbt is the greatest thing it saves me all this time to um and by the way that that may be true but i find that people who are authentically like really understanding the space you know have a nuanced take on it it's not black and white so yeah you just listen i i actually

53:12The Gstaad Guy:had this conversation with a friend a week ago saying that if someone's opinion is nuanced, their opinion is likely rooted in knowledge. And if someone's opinion is extreme or quite emotional, they actually probably could learn a little more about the topic. I think that's, yeah, I think there's truth to that. Yeah. When you are developing new features and new products with your teams, how long are the development timelines both in software and on hardware from ideation to consumer can use this well on the hardware side the cycles can be quite long we're thinking about hardware that we want to release in 2-3 years today and in some cases in 4-5 years today so we're thinking about multiple generations of hardware today and

54:10And that's a hard exercise because you have to peer into the future. It's easier to say, oh, if we could do X, Y, Z, it would be great today because you know what today looks like. When you start talking about, oh, this is going to be impactful in four years, you have to really make a bet on what the world looks like in four years. and I gravitate towards taking on risk from the standpoint of technology development, not from the standpoint of consumer adoption. So what does that mean? It means if you're saying you're going to launch something two to three years from now, it's a bad sign if you know how to do it.

54:53Like you want to actually be taking on some risk on the technology side because it needs to be so innovative when it comes out because then it comes out. And then by the way, in the market for another two years. So you really are like talking about what is going to make a big difference four years from now. Well, it better be awesome, right? It better be awesome and ambitious. So that's, I mean, that's a little bit how to think about hardware. The software side is, is much more nimble, you know, and there's some things that are bigger releases that maybe we're planning over the course of, you know, six months or a year.

55:33But for the most part, we're thinking about what can we release next week or two weeks from now or a month from now. Like we are rapidly innovating on software and that's exhilarating, you know, to be able to be constantly shaping and changing the product. And it's worth saying Whoop is a subscription. So we're not just trying to go get a bunch of new people to sign up for Whoop, we're fighting for our existing members every day. We want to keep them on Whoop every day, every week, every month, every year, and we want to keep delivering value. And so we think a lot about what are new features that are going to enhance our existing members' experience.

56:12And if you signed up for Whoop, I don't know, six months ago, you probably didn't know that we were about to launch advanced labs, which now allows you to upload blood tests. And now you're actually going to take blood tests through Whoop. And we just updated the AI coach and that, you know, now it remembers everything you say and now it lives throughout the app and it can follow you around and you can ask questions of Whoop anywhere in the app. And we just launched a new menstrual cycle coaching feature. You know, we just came out with streaks and a new profile page. And so there's all these different categories of work where we get to be much faster and much more iterative.

56:56And those are, you know, just say like those are different skills, predicting what the world should look like in three to four years and launching something in two weeks. But the magic of Whoop is that we've created an environment where we have great people doing both. I love that.

57:13The Gstaad Guy:I know you can't tell us about what you're building for three or four years from now naturally. But I'm hoping that you can tell us what you were hoping to build towards three or four years ago that you had to wait for technology to grow into for you to be able to launch or at least launch a version of that product that you were proud enough of to give to your customers. Well, we recently launched ECG monitoring with AFib detection, and we had never gotten a medical clearance before. We recently launched HealthSpan with WHOOP-AH, which tells you how old you are, and we didn't know how to create a longevity score.

57:56And we recently launched blood pressure monitoring, and we didn't know how to do blood pressure monitoring.

58:00The Gstaad Guy:How does the blood pressure monitoring work? Because when I hear blood pressure, I imagine the sleeve and the expansion. We created an experience where with one cuff calibration, we're able to accurately measure your blood pressure every morning. And we do it as an estimate and estimates based on a variety of factors. And, you know, we've done reinforcement learning to make the metric super accurate. it. But I bring these examples up because to your question three years ago, four years ago, when we embarked on the journey of creating the things that are now in the, in the app, we didn't know how to do some of them.

58:36Like we wanted to do them, but they were pretty audacious and hard. And so we partnered with great researchers. We did a ton of data collection. We, you know, built out a regulatory team. We just got more sophisticated.

58:51The Gstaad Guy:And on the invasive versus non-invasive side of things, you mentioned the blood tests. There are some measures today that must be done through blood like blood sugar, which I know is something that people are trying to make less and less invasive as time progresses with the blood sugar monitors. Continuous glucose monitor? Exactly. CGM? Yes, those ones. Sorry, I don't know the terms. with the cgms are there technologies that allow for a non-invasive glucose monitor or at least assumption well i'll say this that this is a technology that we're looking at very closely that's why i asked it because i just assumed that's your next thing yeah it has to be it's just so in line with with you guys it fits the profile of being very hard hasn't been done before i'm excited to measure my glucose on whoop i've no doubt you'll figure it out in a year or three years no promises so where do you see this going i think ultimately whoop is going to feel like a continuation of the doctor's office where you're going to have all of this health data under one umbrella so today it's the 24 7 physiology we're now adding advanced labs so that's blood tests soon you're gonna be able to upload past medical records mri scans genetics all sorts of health data under one umbrella and in the background the ai that sits on top of your data will be able to tell you all sorts of deep insights about you and it'll also be able to alert you when things go wrong and in addition to that there's going to be moments where whoop will actually hand you off to a doctor and that's a pretty powerful experience and so in a way it's going to this technology is going to blur into what you think of the health care system today one obvious way that this will manifest is that the the annual checkup with a doctor will go away.

1:01:06People won't do annual checkups in part because every day they're wearing a whoop will be an annual checkup. And, and it'll, when you have that, you'll realize how antiquated that experience was. I went to a doctor's office. They stuck this thing on my finger. They took a blood pressure reading. They didn't have any context about the data. They asked me a bunch of random questions. I was filling out paperwork that got lost in a file. I never saw my results. Like it's just, it's, it's like a, an experience that's 40 years old. And, uh, and with technology, it should be a 24 seven experience and you should go see a doctor right before something's about to happen, not on some random Wednesday, you know, middle of the year.

1:01:50So that's like one very obvious way that I picture this manifesting is, uh, you're not can have annual checkups.

1:01:59The Gstaad Guy:You briefly mentioned the power of prevention in a medical sense. And I assume that preventing bad things from happening medically is a lot easier than solving most of them. And the costs involved are also a lot lower, which brings up the thought governments that spend a lot on their healthcare systems and that offer great healthcare systems to their citizens would likely save a lot from prevention as well and could save a lot from having all their citizens wear a whoop. I like where you're going with this. Look, I do think it's inevitable that this technology will be subsidized, whether it's by governments or insurance companies or employers.

1:02:49One way or another, having human beings be healthier saves money and, by the way, is great for humanity. So that equation will play itself out. I think, unfortunately, there'll be a lot of counterforces that make money from people being sick. That's kind of the dark side of the healthcare industry is there's a lot of money that's being made from people who have chronic diseases because chronic diseases keep paying. But preventative care is unquestionably the future of the healthcare system. And wearable technology and WHOOP, I think, play a big role in that.

1:03:33The Gstaad Guy:Have any health insurers gone down this path, similar to car insurers, that you get a cheaper monthly payment by having a tracker in your car? it's very early but I think you can expect to hear that they'll do it soon I'm loving this on this podcast we always play a game of à la poubelle versus fantastique à la poubelle in French means to the trash things you want to change, get rid of and wish they weren't the way they are something I talk about a lot in my videos online and fantastique are things that are fantastic that we celebrate and wish we could see more of Are there a couple of things in the world that surrounds you that you see to be as hurdles, possibly, or just things you don't like, you'd like to throw a la poubelle and wish they weren't there and things you'd want to celebrate and see more of that you deem to be fantastique?

1:04:32well i think the the rate at which we can scale our technology and have more people on the planet wearing whoop you know that i would love to see be accelerated i think that would be fantastic i think so too i think so you know and then i guess along the same lines barriers to that so So, you know, challenges with regulations around the world, growing internationally, operations, all these things are sort of inertia to growth. And fortunately, we've overcome a lot of them. And the business is growing as fast as it ever has. But I do think that the more people we can educate about our technology and the more people we can have wearing Whoop, the healthier we can make humanity.

1:05:27The Gstaad Guy:Do you see Whoop replacing or complementing the existing healthcare system that you shared definitely has some improving to do? I think aspects of both. I think it'll compliment the doctors and the employers and the insurance providers who want to see change. I think there's a great quote that AI won't replace doctors, but doctors who use AI will replace doctors. And I think there's an element of that with Whoop where it's like the people who embrace technology are going to benefit. and the people who don't embrace technology are going to get disrupted. I love that. Love it. I've never heard that put so eloquently.

1:06:19The Gstaad Guy:I'm going to start using that. I think it's applicable to every industry, really. You said you have billions of hours of data already from all of your Whoop wearers. Yeah. Are there any trends you've picked up on based on that data that have changed the way you think about habits you thought to be good one thing that was interesting from doing the longevity research is that generally speaking you sort of always assume the more hours of sleep that you get is better we actually found that people who get it was around nine and a half to ten hours but once you go over nine and a half hours on average it's actually a net negative signal for longevity because people who are getting that much sleep actually often have some underlying condition that's requiring their body to have to rest so much.

1:07:12So on the health span score, there's like a sweet, there's like a tipping point around seven hours where north of seven hours, it makes you younger. But actually if you go too far, it makes you old. If you go past nine and a half, it makes you older. So that was one thing that was, when you actually look at the research, makes a lot of sense but I was surprised by when I first saw it.

1:07:35The Gstaad Guy:Well Will thank you so much for taking the time to be here today I'm a big fan of everything you've built, big fan of the Whoop on my wrist and I'm very excited to see how you continue to allow me to have conversations with my body and understand my body better Thank you man, thank you for being on Whoop and for this conversation Thank you, really appreciate it Thank you for listening to this episode of the Start Guy podcast If you're keen to learn more, please follow along by engaging with our social channels on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, YouTube and Apple Podcasts. And we look forward to seeing you next week.

1:08:15The Gstaad Guy:Merci beaucoup. A la prochaine and a big hug from the Start Guy.