Jenson Button: How I Nearly Threw Away My F1 World Title

0:00Before we get started, let me tell you, you can now listen to high-performance ad-free. Start your free trial now on Apple, Spotify, or head to our website so you can listen to our episodes uninterrupted. I think I finished last in every race, and I'd gone from winning the previous season to finishing last. And on the way home, he thought I was asleep in the back, and he's talking to my step-mom. And he said to her, I don't think he's got it. You know, that hurt. Formula One is a mental game. Pretty much every guy on the grid is super talented. I was terrible if I had a bad weekend and that was a big issue for me in my earlier career.

0:34That's why I struggled at Benetton so much. I had a boss like Slavi Briatore that would pick every fault and tell the world. 15 Grand Prix wins, a world championship and for a long time I thought I knew Jenson Button as well as anyone. I mean I followed him to every single race of his title winning season. I was the guy that interviewed him live in the garage moments after he won the world championship. And then we got to sit down with him at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. And for the first time, we recorded this podcast in front of a live audience. And I sat there realising how much of Jensen I'd kind of not noticed.

1:10Like the 12-year-old pretending to be asleep in the back of the car, hearing his dad say something he didn't repeat until the day he won the world title. The boss who told the press he'd been distracted shopping for a yacht while his hands were still bleeding. The note he wrote after every bad race and put in his pocket. and the season he won six of the first seven races and then very nearly let it slip. And I remember that very, very well. So I started this conversation by asking Jenson, how does a driver walk into a new team and get everyone to fight for him? He said it was never just about him.

1:41It was about the people he brought through the door. And he took us straight to the move that everyone told him was a mistake. This is fun. Let's hear from Jenson Button on High Performance.

1:56We came into McLaren, for example, after winning the World Championship in 2009. People said it was the craziest move to move to McLaren alongside Lewis Hamilton. And even Ross Braun said that. You know, I told the team that I was leaving at the end of 2009. I spoke to Nick Fry, who basically just shouted at me. He was one of the bosses alongside Ross Braun at the time. And I remember going in his office and telling him I was leaving. And he just shouted at me. And I basically started laughing. because it was a really uncomfortable situation. I kind of felt for him, how aggressive he was. And he just looked at me and said, why are you laughing at me?

2:35It was the situation. It just, what I didn't expect. And I told Ross and he was very friendly and he said, I think you're making a big mistake going up alongside Lewis. I was like, oh, this is awesome. There's a lot of confidence for you. A lot of positive energy here I'm getting. But I was leaving, but it happens. I didn't have a contract for the next year. It just didn't feel like the place for me. going to McLaren was. And I remember walking into McLaren and the first thing I said was, before I met anyone, I spoke to Martin Wittmarsh, I spoke to Ron Dennis and I said, my first question is, is this Lewis's team?

3:09You know, am I going to have equal treatment here? Because if I'm not, I don't want to be here. And they said, yes, everything will be 100 % equal between both of the drivers. I was like, right, now I can start. And then I walked in, met everyone and got a pretty good rapport with the team very, very quickly. And my dad would walk in. And, you know, my dad was always in the background, as you know. And he would speak to the engineers. And, you know, the racers would be like, good job, guys. You've done a fantastic job. Thanks for looking after my son. Now don't mess it up. Is that right? I was going to say a bad word then.

3:41But don't mess it up. He would say it in a different way than that. And you think that had an impact? Definitely. You know, it was quite a cold atmosphere. And he made it a lot more friendly. And, you know, my manager, Richard, was great. my physio Mikey Muscles, my PR man James Williamson. And I think it just made everyone a bit more relaxed in the team. And drivers weren't these alien people that you can't talk to within a team. You know, I made sure that I spent time on the mechanics, time with the engineers, and really got them on side so they would listen to what I needed to do with the car to make it work for me.

4:17And that's why in those mixed conditions I could drive it well because I developed the car around myself. So would you tell us a little bit about your father and his influence on Jensen and also as well contrast it with the role of your mum? It seems quite of a yin and yang approach to parenting. Well, they're very yin and yang as people. I don't understand how they were ever together, my parents, but they weren't together very long after they had me. My parents split up when I was seven and I started racing when I was eight. So it was through my parents splitting up that I started racing because my father had me on the weekends.

4:50and as a kid that wasn't really into ball sports, he's like, what am I going to do with him? So he bought me a go-kart, used all the money he had in his bank account for a go-kart and we'd go racing on the weekends. But my dad was always there for me when it came to racing and he would support me all the way, but he wasn't pushy. I hate that when you see dads in karting pushing their kids because it makes you not want to do it. He would always say if it's, we had a bad weekend, which we would have had, especially when I turn into a teenager, You know, you suddenly find the opposite sex attractive and racing kind of is on the back burner a little bit.

5:24And he would turn around to me and say, Jenson, if you're not into it right now, he said, we can take a break. Or if you want to stop, stop. And what was your reaction when he would say something like that to you? It made me want to work harder, you know. And there was one moment that I get emotional probably saying it, but I was karting and it was, yeah, I was 12, 13 and had a really bad weekend. We're racing up in Scotland, karting, and I think I finished last in every race. And I'd gone from winning the previous season to finishing last. And on the way home, he thought I was asleep in the back, and he was talking to my step-mom.

5:57And he said to her, I don't think he's got it. And that was like, oh, you know, that hurt. And I didn't tell him that I knew until I won the world championship. And what was his reaction then? He started crying. And do you think that he knew you were hearing him? or he sort of understood you enough to know the right things to say to push your buttons? He did, but he was a very caring guy. So, you know, he would never say anything to try and sway what I was feeling. No, to benefit him, if you like. He would never do that.

6:33Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

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8:38and what about the role of your mother then what did she offer you that you were still using when you were becoming a world champion well when when i started racing it's when my parents split up and they didn't get on at all they hated each other um which which obviously was a tricky one for me because i wanted to go driving go-karts the whole time as a kid um so she didn't like that i was driving karts uh and i get it you know as a for a mum it's a baby boy as the only boy in the family got three sisters and uh i was away with my dad having fun but also she she didn't really understand it so she's like it's really dangerous he could hurt himself and and it is you know it has got danger attached to it so i kind of get it and she tried to stop me racing initially and then she saw how much i loved it and how well i was doing and then i went to europe and raced and she was massively supportive and she actually you know apologized for me for being the way that she was and she's been so supportive she hasn't been at all the races my f1 races like my dad was and one of the reasons was because they didn't get on and it it just didn't work for me having them both there you know i didn't want to be worrying about how my mom was feeling about my dad being there and vice versa so because my dad got me into racing he was always the one at the races yeah but my mom watched every single race you know she's even texting me now saying when are you going up the hill next it's mega that she's still like that so um she's been massively supportive and i think i think for my parents obviously my dad wasn't around anymore when uh I retired from F1 but I think it really hit my mum when I wasn't racing in F1 because she loved that and I think if my dad was around I think it would have hit him really hard when I retired from F1 because that was his life.

10:15So what lessons did they teach you that you would pass on to your children now then? I think the supportive role but not being pushy you know with my dad even the year that I won the world championship he'd be in the back of the garage and he would wait to be spoken to, if you like. You know, if I had an issue or I was happy, I would walk up to him and then I would talk to him and then he would give me his opinion. He would never throw it at me because he knew I knew what I was doing. He was very supportive, but in a quiet way, in a very calm manner. The only time he got angry with me was 2013.

10:53I broke my hand, which not many people know, punching a drum in a shop bar in Tokyo. yes what did the drum do that was so offensive well basically we we flew from korea yeah which was always an interesting weekend uh flew to japan all the a lot of the drivers together there's 12 of us in total went to this shop bar and it was the weekend before the japanese grand prix so we all went out had a few drinks and to get everyone around in the bar um you hit this drum with a drumstick and the drumstick was missing so i punched the drum which was fine because it moved out the way and then felipe massa grabbed hold of the drum and said punch you again and i did and uh went over on my left knuckle because i didn't know what i was doing and uh and broke my hand and dc was there and i mean i mean dc couldn't really see at that point but uh but he still looked at me went you've broken it haven't you and he knew immediately and i was like yeah and it got me ice and went to the doctors the next day and i'd broken my hand and they said you gotta you gotta strap it up we've got to put a cast on it so i'm driving a formula one car in three days i can't do that they said well it's gonna hurt a lot then and I eventually raced in Japan.

12:02The team wanted to swap me out and put the young gun in, which was, was it Kevin Magnusson? They wanted to put him in the car so they could compare him in Checo to see who would be in the car the next year. And I was like, no, I'm not getting out the car. So I drove and I basically had to strap my hand to the steering wheel to drive. That's the only time he got angry with me when I told him I broke my hand. He said a really bad word to me, which I'm not going to mention now. Do not repeat that. On a podcast, we can, right? But there's people here. so we can't. But he was really angry. It's the only time in my racing career he's been angry with me just because of my stupidity.

12:35But getting back to your question, I think it's the nurturing and I see it as a father with my kids. I want to nurture them and I don't want to push them in any direction. If my son or my daughter want to race cars or go karts, I'm going to let them. But I'm not going to push them to do that at all. But I have a feeling my son Hendrix is going to want to because all day long he plays with cars, and he carries cars around with him. So it looks like he's going to be a car collector, which is going to be expensive. But if he wants to do it, he wants to do it, and I'll let him. But I think I'm lucky because he's going to be your size.

13:10Is he? And we've all seen you drive cars. Very fast. Very impressive. Let's talk about failure and allowing your kids to fail because I think one of the big issues these days is this helicopter parenting, hovering around your kids all the time, smoothing the path in front of them, not allowing them to fail, and then they get to an age, and they don't have the resilience because they've never had to fail before. Loads of parents listen to this podcast. So, you know, you've gone through a whole life of failure. That's the reality of an elite sports person, right? Regular failure and then the odd success.

13:40What are you going to be teaching them about the power of failure? Will you let them fail? I agree. And sometimes I am a helicopter parent because I don't want my son to hurt himself. But in terms of failing, yeah, he has to. And, you know, as long as you're there to pick him up after and tell them this happens. You know, we've all been through it. You know, I went through really tough times and it's having that network of people around you that really helps. You know, not to blow smoke up your backside, but to tell you what you can do and to remind you of what you've achieved in the past and how hard you've worked for this.

14:13And Formula One is a mental game. Pretty much every guy on the grid is super talented. It's just if their head is in the right space. So can you share with us some of those tips that you used to get yourself in that headspace to go out there and perform at your best? I was terrible if I had a bad weekend. I wouldn't go through the process of working out why it was bad. It would just live with me for days. And that was a big issue for me in my earlier career, sort of 2001, 2002. And that's why I struggled at Benetton so much. I had a boss like Flavio Briatore that would pick every fault and tell the world of your issues and wouldn't be there to help you through them.

14:52so I would Sunday, bad weekend and I would think about that race all the way up until the next race and that really hurt me and it just got worse and worse and worse I had to really work on and I didn't work with a specialist which I should have done because it took me longer to learn, but I had to get out of the car and sit down with my thoughts and even write it down on a piece of paper the reasons why it didn't work that day and this is just with myself, not with other people the reasons why it didn't work that day and how to make this better because I know I can drive a racing car against the best in the world, but I'm not performing, and why is that?

15:27And I had to write things down and work out the issues. Was it because I was staring at a TV screen before I went out for my quality lab, which it was? Was it because my head wasn't in the right place when it came to fitness, nutrition, working with the engineers? And I really had to work out the reasons for it, and I would do that straight after the race, before I've talked to anyone. And that, for me, was the most important thing. Write it down, put it in my pocket, and that was the quickest way for me to get over a bad weekend and develop my skills in the areas that I was weak because we all have weaknesses and every driver, every sportsman has a weakness and it's those areas you really need to work on.

16:03And what did it do for you when you finally got that first Formula 1 win? I mean, we all remember, I'm sure, that amazing image of you with your wide eyes and the visor up on your helmet. That almost looked like a kind of disbelief or a realisation that finally the win has come. what did that do for your confidence and your approach to racing you know formula one is is a team sport and you can't win without a good car you can't win without a good team but you also can't win without a good driver so that weekend was a pretty emotional weekend because we had a great car that weekend in hungary 2006 and uh honda back then were very good with power output But the reliability wasn't there.

16:44And I was in practice. I was super quick. But we blew the engine on Saturday morning. Went into qualifying. I qualified fourth, which I'm pretty happy with. But back then you had a 10-place grid penalty for an engine failure. So I started the race 14th. So coming through in those tricky conditions and winning in that manner was massive for us. The adrenaline. It's always exciting when you come through a field and win a race, right? and it's great to watch. And I think that just added to the excitement for the whole team. And I've never seen so many grown men cry. The Japanese were so emotional about their motor racing.

17:23And to finally get that win after so many years of trying really meant a lot to them. And also the UK-based team as well. But yeah, a really special weekend. And the funny thing is, you celebrate and then it's forgotten. Did you not feel any different the following race? Did you not go into that with more confidence or more belief? Not at all. I think as a whole, as a team, we probably did. You know, we were more confident turning up at the next race when it came to strategy and the pit stops the guys were doing. There was more belief in us as a team, probably, than us as individuals. So that was where it helped us.

18:02And if you looked at that point to the end of the season, we actually scored more points than Michael Schumacher, Fernando Alonso, the two guys that were fighting for the world championship so it definitely helped us as a team have confidence to go out there and fight with the best of them so what would you say were the biggest changes then from the guy in 2001 that was struggling to process these defeats definitely understanding motor racing you know we jump into an f1 car and think well we're i know i can drive i'm gonna i'm gonna win um but it doesn't quite work like that you know you're racing against everyone all these drivers have been through the same process as you of coming through lower categories and winning so you think you're going to be the best when you get into an f1 car but you're racing against the best they're all fantastic drivers and i had kevin magnuson as a teammate back in 2014 and i remember at race three he turned around to me and said jb i didn't know it was going to be this hard i thought i'd jump in and just destroy you all but it doesn't happen you're racing against the best and um for me it was understanding that your natural ability is is never enough there's always someone that has got a slightly better natural ability it's about working on the areas for example the engineering and as i was mentioning before the fitness the the the nutrition and and mentally feeling like you're doing more than everyone else i think that gives you a bit of confidence as well you know my fitness i always tried to be fitter every year I raced an F1 and I felt like I was the fittest F1 driver whether I was or not I don't know nutrition I always thought I was doing a better job on nutrition with the engineering and understanding of the car not just coming in and saying it's understeering here it's oversteering here but actually understanding what I need to do with the car to make it feel better not just giving it to the engineers and say here you go sort that out I'll come back tomorrow so for me that was the most important thing understanding Formula One really rather than just using my natural ability to win.

19:56And how much did perception, external perception, frustrate you? Because you were doing all this, you were giving it your everything, you know, there was so much dependent upon the chassis that had been built or the engine that had been created. You're giving it everything, you're going to the nth degree to be perfect. Yet I remember in the early career, it was like, oh, Jenson, he's the playboy guy who just likes a night out, he hasn't won a race yet. You remember that conversation that swirled around at the time? Did you allow that to frustrate you? Did you try and get control of that? Because external perception impacts people too much, you know?

20:29It does. And it started with Flavio basically saying it in Monaco. I finished seventh, which then was not point scoring. You know, now a seventh is amazing, right, in F1. But it was seventh and I was just outside the points. And our power steering failed at the start of the race. And F1 cars are pretty heavy without power steering. And I had blisters all over my hands and came in. And Flavio gave an interview without talking to me and said, oh I think he was looking for a new apartment or a new yacht to buy that's why he finished seventh and our hands were bleeding um so that really hurt you know your own boss the guy that's supposed to be nurturing you um saying that to the press and then they obviously take that on board and they run with it forever basically but did you speak to Flavio and try and explain how that's not helpful he wasn't the sort of guy you could sit down with and have an honest conversation like that so it was very tricky um and I needed other people in the team to support me and they they didn't really you know this is a team that had achieved a lot in the past with Michael Schumacher and uh you know they thought they were the best and this young kid who they think now is a playboy because Flavio said it um is coming in here trying to perform and he's not doing a good enough job and and I wasn't doing a good enough job it's because I wasn't being nurtured in the right way and I wasn't mentally strong enough to find a way out so beyond being hurt by that comment by Flavio how else did that affect you that perception yeah it did and you know I had a girlfriend at the time as well I had a long-term girlfriend I'd been with for three years so playboy doesn't really fit yeah it really did hurt and I'm you know I'm quite an emotional character anyway I'm not hard in any way when it comes to emotion so I really struggled with that and that was one of the biggest issues for me and the best thing for me was to leave the team and I was told to leave the team because Fernando was coming in anyway.

22:14So I was like, okay, where am I going to go? And Dave Richards gave me the opportunity to go to BAR. And it was the best move of my life. That team walked in, high-fiving everyone on the way in. They were really happy for me to be there. And to feel wanted was immediately, it was a complete switch for me. And I jumped in the car, felt great. The only person that didn't want me to be there was Jacques Villeneuve, my teammate. We all know how that turned out. But we ended up being good friends. But that was such a good step for me. And sometimes that's all it needs for a driver. It's that shift, that change in team and team mentality.

22:53And it's very different to most sports. You know, most sports is the individual. And it's the fitness level. It's the technical understanding of the sport. But team sports are tough. And I understand that in football, in rugby. Sometimes you just don't click with that crowd of people you're working with. And sometimes it's difficult to find that. And I found that with BER. And it was great working with that team through it being BER, Honda, and then on to being Braun. So what was the team where you felt you were at your happiest and therefore performed at your best? I mean, I had two teams that I was with for a long period of time.

23:28And probably the most happy was still BER, which turned into Braun. It just felt like family to me. And also because we went from kind of nothing. Fourth place was our best finish, I think, in 2003. to winning the world championship together and having our first victory together as a team. So that for me was probably the team that stands out as the biggest family that I've worked with. McLaren was different because I arrived there as a world champion and had won races. But still, they welcomed me like I didn't expect them to, as they had Lewis as their number one driver, if you like. So both fantastic teams to work with, very different bosses, with Ron Dennis at the helm at McLaren.

24:10and I really liked working with Ron. Unusual character, sometimes tricky. Having a conversation with Ron one-to-one could be tricky, but it could be awesome as well. It could be really great getting his opinion on things, and he's been around the sport for many years, what with Alan Prost, Ayrton Senna, and trying to control those two drivers under one roof. I can't imagine how difficult it was. So it was really nice working with him, but to be fair, it was more like Martin Whitmarsh that I could work with on a day-to-day basis and making the team feel like my own was with Martin and the engineers.

24:43So why was it tricky with Ron? He's just an unusual character. If you've ever spoken to Ron, you probably know. You've probably interviewed Ron. Tried to. Yeah, exactly. On his day, Ron was great at being interviewed, but the next day would be really difficult. So he was very passionate about Formula One. He wanted it to be a certain way, but it wasn't always that way, so it'd be tricky. But he built this team from very small. So he achieved so much with McLaren. And without him, it wouldn't exist. So it was really sad to see him go. And after a couple of sherberts, it was always a lot of fun.

25:19A couple of lemonades. And you can hear the true stories and the great stories. The good stories. Exactly. So you saw kind of really different cultures then as you moved through Formula 1. And we'll talk about the championship winning season in just a moment. But now that you're involved in Xtreme E, you've got your own team there. You're a parent as well. Lots of CEOs listen to this podcast. What do you believe makes a healthy culture? What do you want to see in a team that you're involved in? From both sides, I think healthy criticism is really important. And it's giving it and it's taking it.

25:49It's giving it in the right way, not putting people down. I think positive criticism, giving it and receiving it is really key. Wanting to learn, wanting to be better than you were yesterday. And if you're not better the next day, you're not better. But you've tried. And that's the main thing. It's putting in the effort to always want to be better than you were yesterday. And some days are going to be dark and some days are going to be difficult. But you've got to realize that we've all been through that. And it's how you deal with that and not be afraid to ask for help in that situation. And I wasn't that person.

26:22I bottled it up inside and it really hurt my career in the early stages of my F1 career. So it's being open to criticism, but also being open to asking for help. So what were the benefits then? I mean, that's a really intriguing comment that you made about bottling up emotions or judgments. What was the catalyst that led you to understand that starting to ask for feedback and be open to it was healthy? It was people coming to me and asking if I needed help in that situation. You know, my physio... But were you initially reticent towards that? Did you feel it was a weakness at the beginning? Totally, totally.

26:58And I would never want to speak to a specialist and try and help me in that situation. you know I think as Brits we're not very good at asking for help either couples therapy I mean why would you want that we can deal with it ourselves but you're not being told what to do as a human being it's someone sitting there and you're just airing your issues they don't comment on anything they don't give you feedback it's more just having someone that you can just release everything and it's just such a weight off your shoulders and no I haven't been to couple counselling but just I would Hey, it's Jay Comfrey here from the High Performance Podcast, and support for this show is brought to you by Walden University.

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29:27by the time 2009 arrived right this is the title winning season then were you at that point dealing with not necessarily a psychologist but you were you were able to talk a lot more openly and i wonder whether that helped because as i mentioned to you just beforehand i mean my my memory of 2009 is seeing that car so fast in australia seeing real confidence from you and Rubens and was it in Australia Rubens had a bit of a shunt at the beginning and the car hardly got damaged and it looked like a bulletproof Formula One car yeah turn one he had a bit of a touch he had a bad start didn't he and had a bit of a touch and it was amazing and you were just on the crest of a wave and then I don't know whether you have any memory of this but Nicola was the press officer at Braun is that right Nicola yeah and I came to interview you in Italy in the paddock and as we were walking to the motor home and I mean that would have been two-thirds of the way through the season she said look just just to say it's been a hard few races his head's in a strange space okay so we'll just see how it goes I was like okay and you were like I have to say you were the friendliest kindest most open brilliant Formula One driver that any of us dealt with in our time in Formula One because you like now you were just you I came in the room you didn't even look at me you didn't really want to do an interview if I'm being totally honest you gave me two word answers and it might have gone on the telly but I think we just filled it with shots of you racing and the odd answer what was going on at that point it was difficult it was like my whole career in one season do you know what I mean through the emotions and I'd learned from those tough years but finally I'm in a position where I can win races I can fight for a championship it was a brand new team if you like that you didn't know where the future was going to be so you you had to take the opportunity to win the championship that year yeah which is lucky that we did so i put so much pressure on myself and pressure that i shouldn't have put on my shoulders because the car was good the team were good and i was performing well as soon as i had one bad race which was silverstone the first of the bad races being at home i wanted to have a great race in front of the home crowd circuit i loved and it was so cold and and i was quite famous for not being able to get tire temperature and i really struggled that race and i think i finished sixth after winning the first six of the seven races and that really hurt me and it you know I didn't immediately ask for for help or discuss it with anyone it went through quite a few races and this is when we had our bad interview I'm sure and then my physio Mikey Muscles who I'd been with for many years before that he while he was giving me a little rub on the on the table he said JB just talk to me he said just just talk to me just let it all out and it was the best thing that could have he could have said and um and i did and i just told him how i felt um can you reveal a bit of what you said i was just saying you know this is this could be my only chance and i've i've put so much pressure on myself and every time i don't perform whether it's in a practice lap or a qualifying lap or a lap in the race i feel the pressure building within but then i also look at what they write because you know the headlines are uh are always tough for a sportsman to read and nobody takes credit for the headline.

32:33You know, they'll take credit for the article and they'll say, oh, the headline wasn't me. And the headlines are always the one that hit you the hardest when it's negative. So I was reading way too much. You know, I would love it when they write positive stuff, of course, and I read everything. And then suddenly they're writing negative stuff and I couldn't help myself from reading it. And that really took its toll. And being open with Mikey was really key to let everything out, relax and then just get on with my job and i remember getting asked by a british journalist in spa and i was quick in spa but i got i crashed at the start of the race it was roman grosjean tapped me in the rear and i crashed actually with lewis at the time and i came in and he said jensen it's like you don't want to win this world championship and it was just the most stupid question the most stupid comment and i basically just told him to leave yeah um and everyone else did as well all the other journalists but uh that was when it was it is lowest point.

33:28But after that, as I said, I spoke to Mikey and I came out feeling a lot fresher. We'd spend more time with fitness, just getting away from stuff over the race weekends, not focusing too much on looking at a timing screen over practice sessions and stuff like that. So getting away from it so I could come back and felt a lot more fresh when I jumped in the car. And I definitely felt it when I was racing. I felt more alive. I felt like that young kid again that just jumped into an F1 car with Williams. You know, I felt like that again. And I kind of forgot about the championship and just took every race as it came.

34:00And have I remembered it right, that in Brazil, when you won the world title, where did you qualify for that race? 14th. And you had to finish, what, fifth or sixth or something? Yeah, my teammate qualified on pole. We as a team, I'm going to say we as a team, made the wrong choice on tyres in qualifying. We went on the inter and we should have been on the wet. And Vettel did exactly the same thing because they were basically copying us. and he was my closest rival really and he started 16th. So we didn't have the car really that was quick enough compared to the Red Bull or the McLaren but I knew I had to finish in the top five and it was tough because my teammate called a funnel pole.

34:34He was Brazilian. I remember going to restaurants in Brazil and then putting a ladder outside the front door so I had to walk under it to give me bad luck. Marginal gains. Exactly. But then didn't you turn up on that race day like with real serenity? Yeah, I was actually, I had a pint the night before a race which I probably wasn't supposed to do. But I had a pint in the hotel bar with my dad and I just looked at him and said, I'm going to win the world championship tomorrow. I have to win the world championship tomorrow before the last race of the season. And he just looked at me and nodded. And I woke up the next day, refreshed, walked into the team and they're like, oh, okay.

35:08And had a great race, one of the best races of my life, fighting through. And the car was obviously working well, but yeah, fighting through. And all the time on the radio, it's like, where are we? Where's Lewis? Where's Sebastian? Where do we need to be? And having as much information as possible, how hard I should push, how brave I had to be on the moves of, you know, overtaking people. Because a lot of them were like close calls. And yeah, crossing that finish line, it was a very special and emotional moment. Doing it that way, for me, it felt that race, you know, the highs and the lows of that race weekend was my whole career in two days.

35:41So it sounds like you discovered almost a winning formula to handle pressure. so what tips and advice would you give to anyone listening to this about how they can handle pressure in their own lives yeah i think it's it's being open as i said not being afraid to show a weakness to the people around you um because they're the people that you're gonna need when times are tough surrounding yourself with good people you know i was very lucky i had my old boy i had my manager i had mikey muscles um my mates richie and chrissy who were at pretty much every race and they're racing drivers i've raced with them since i was eight so having good people around you that you know just to let you know what you have achieved and and how good you are but without as i said blowing smoke up um where the sun doesn't shine but uh that was really important to me having a good team of people being alone i would have struggled and i know other drivers struggled like that i know lewis when we were teammates 2011 he struggled because he didn't have that team of people around me and that that is what helped me a lot in my career but it also sounded like like your answer echoed one of our previous guests was johnny wilkinson that spoke about he he realized how much he was living in the future where and he learned the key to it was living in the present and just focusing on the moment how much of that was yeah consistent with you we all look too much to the future don't we we're all looking at what we're going to do next and living in the moment is key and you know there are times when we need to look at the past especially when it's about achievements but you do need to live in the moment and once the race is over as I said for me to write everything down write down my weaknesses why it didn't work for me in that situation and then go over it in my head and then put a line through it and move on and that was really important for me to really live in the moment as you said because I was thinking too much of the past and thinking how much the past was going to hurt my future, if you like.

37:36And I think there's a great lesson from this whole conversation which we're nearly out of time with. We all exist looking at other people, particularly now with the advent of social media, and we imagine everyone else's life is so easy. And all of us in this room would have looked at you over those years and thought, what a blessed existence. He gets up, gets on a private jet, goes to a race, races with a big smile on his face, has a drink, and then goes back to his lovely apartment. And they'd be right. yeah but they don't take into account the writing things down the struggles the failures i know you had anxiety attacks at times during your career as well this is a great reminder for everyone just don't assume everyone else is just living that life of serenity yeah i mean what you see on tv is is what you try and portray as an individual and i always wanted to be the smiley guy because that's what i should be right i'm driving an f1 car it's the best job in the world and it was but it comes with an immense amount of pressure one that you put yourself you put yourself under a lot of pressure but the team does the journalists everyone you know every slip up is on tv for the world to see and you know having a life under a microscope is is really tough and you didn't get into motorsport wanting that you didn't want to be a celebrity you wanted to be a sportsman and achieve in formula one it's not like a singer or an actor that needs the public behind them to actually achieve in this.

38:54We love having support because it's amazing, but when they write negatives about you, it's really, really tough and it does get you down. I understand a lot of drivers have been through the same. I would say have someone at every race with you that you can sit down and talk to face-to-face, even if they're not saying anything. It's just getting it out. I think drivers these days should have that support. Looking back, I would have, but I thought I was too much of a man to have support and you do at this level of the pinnacle of any sport you need that support Listen, we always end with some quick fire questions on the High Performance Podcast and the first one is for you and the teams that you're building and the projects you're involved in now what would you say are the three non-negotiable behaviours that people have to bring to the table based on all the years of experience that we've just spent the time talking about Yeah, I think what we've mentioned already One is wanting to learn, wanting to be a better you.

39:53I think taking on positive criticism is really key. And doing something you love. I mean, we don't all have that opportunity. I know that in life. But if you do get the opportunity to go after something you love, it's going to be the best you. So what advice would you give to a teenage Jensen just starting out? It's the same thing, really. It's being very open, and listening to everything that comes at you from all the greats from around the world. Through my career, there were so many great F1 drivers that came to me and gave me their opinion on not just my driving, but who I should be working with in F1 and also the experiences they went through.

40:35And they said, you're probably going to go through this emotion one day. I'm like, no, I'm not going to go through that. It's never going to be hard, but it happens to all of us. So take it on board. Take all the information from these greats on board. whatever it is whatever you do as a job someone has been through it before you so take it all on board so what's your greatest strength and your greatest weakness my greatest weakness was that i wasn't willing to move on from a bad weekend but i feel that i i've definitely got over that one thing that i've not been able to get over is driving a bad car you know that's one that's my weakness you know lewis fernando alonso can can jump in a bad car and and get more out of it than I can.

41:15That's probably my weakness. Strength is the way I drive is very different to most. For example, Lewis comes into a corner. It's great because I have all the speed traces and everything from the data when we were teammates, but hammers the brake as hard as he can. There's no modulation. Turns into the corner, goes on the throttle. The same amount of pressure every time is linear, and he does everything through the steering wheel. Whereas I was the complete opposite. I would brake and modulate it, well that's to stop front locking, and I would come on the throttle and modulate the throttle so that I didn't have to change my steering angle.

41:51So I'd be smooth in the steering, they'd say, oh it looks so smooth, it's just because that's what I would use, but very differently than someone like Lewis. That hurt me in some ways, but it helped me in those mixed conditions, really feel the condition underneath me. So modulating the brake when you come into braking, you're not going to be locking up as much. You don't want steering angle in the works it's very easy to lose the rear and modulating the throttle is key as well yeah because it controls that and you know i feel that i felt the car through my bum a lot more than others a lot of people would see it's wet and drive to what they see whereas i would drive to what i felt and that's where my strength was in those mixed conditions and half my victories were in in f1 were in mixed conditions so i'm not saying i like those conditions no one likes it but i just did better than others very good and look the final question really and it's kind of a last message from you to the listeners of the podcast what is your one golden rule your one message you'd like to leave with them that you've learned over the years for living a high performance life it's going to be bloody hard but that's not a bad thing what's hard isn't necessarily bad right it isn't you're going to have a lot of failures before you actually achieve and uh but it's embracing those failures and and we all say it but learning from those failures but um it's difficult it really is difficult getting over those failures but it's learning to get over those failures that's what's going to make you a great champion Brilliant Luke thank you so much for your time and for your honesty and despite the fact you talk about all those moments of failure I can honestly say that when I was involved in F1 you were so kind of open and honest with people and you managed to sort of carry yourself in such a dignified way and I'm sure it was a lot to do with the people that were around you but it's a testament to the kind of person you are as well You were there when we won the world championship Yeah Remember giving you a big hug in the garage garage that was amazing it was hectic wasn't it yeah yeah yeah i mean there wasn't an inch between everyone in the garage it was madness because it was deadly quiet and then all the snappers came in and then you came in a moment afterwards and just the like that you had a kind of a thousand yard stare i mean i guess it was just like this moment had arrived and it had happened for you but obviously it was a pleasure to share that and it's a pleasure to see you today and to catch up so thank you very much ladies and gentlemen formula and world champion jensen button thank you

44:06Damien. Jake. So I sort of feel I know more about Jenson Button than I did from the four years I spent following him in every race. I think for a lot of our guests sometimes, I think parenthood can have that effect on them because you're starting to think about what you're going to hand down to your own children after it. So yeah, I hadn't considered that, but maybe that was an impact in the way that he did come towards the interview. And did you like what he had to say? yeah I loved it I loved again I loved the idea of challenging preconceptions that we have so when he told the story about Flavio Beatore labeling him as a playboy and then when he spoke about how hurtful that was because of how hard he was working and how disciplined his lifestyle was again it was just a good reminder that sometimes we need to look beyond the cover of a book rather than just making sweeping easy judgments yeah and I think the other thing is it's another reminder of how being a high level professional sports person is so exposing and and that is a real challenge for some people and he readily said on the podcast didn't he you know I didn't have the talent that other people had but I managed to work really hard and I think that's the sort of thing that you can't say publicly when you're in the midst of a title battle or you're competing at the very top again it's only with that benefit of hindsight you can step back and give yourself the credit for the work that you did do but you know he's a world champion baby i love this one so uh i'll see you soon top man thanks damien so interesting isn't it so you've got a 12 year old in the back of his dad's car on a long drive home from scotland hearing those words i don't think he's got it and then suddenly fast forward to brazil 2009 the same two people a hotel bar maybe a pint that Jensen shouldn't have been drinking.

45:55He looks at his dad and says, I'm going to win the world championship tomorrow. And I think that tells us everything we need to know about high performance. It's about the gap from the struggle and the challenge and the setbacks and the disappointment all the way through to the success. It's that gap that really interests us. And it interested us with Jensen, you know, the bad weekends that sat with him for days, the headlines he couldn't stop reading, the help he thought he was too much of a man to need. And I remember so many questions about Jenson Button. Is he committed? He's got the talent.

46:26Has he got the desire? And then suddenly you sit here and you hear a guy who has this golden rule that it's going to be hard, bloody hard, and learning to get over failure is what makes you a champion. I think it's so powerful. And listen, if this one has landed with you, please send it to someone who maybe is in a slightly tough season of their own. Don't forget, you can also enjoy high-performance racing for all of our deep Formula 1 insights and conversations with myself, Rob Smedley, Anot Mar-Safnauer, and of course, we've got a really big back catalogue of amazing Formula One conversations and actually got some big guests from the F1 world coming your way over the next couple of months as the season winds down.

47:02So why not hit subscribe right now and get all of those first. Thank you so much for listening. Stay humble, curious and empathetic and we'll see you next time.

47:50We'll see you next time. Less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. Thank you so much for enjoying today's episode of High Performance. Just a reminder, you can also sign up for our ad-free service at Apple, Spotify, or on the High Performance website.