Behind HubSpot’s Creator Network w/ Alanah Joseph

0:00You know, we really want to encourage community, right? And that goes back to creating meaningful business relationships that add value. And part of that is creating a community of creators that all have their own specific niche and are all adding a specific value, but together comprise an incredible business network.

0:27Hey, Alana, welcome to the show. How are you? I'm great. Thank you for having me. Excited for this conversation. Absolutely. Today is going to be very meta because we're going to talk about podcasts, you know, podcasts. I'm pretty sure that it's not the first time for you. But I think it is for me, maybe we kind of covered in the past, but not with someone that is, you know, expert 100 % on the topic. So I'm very excited that maybe I'm going to, you know, most probably going to learn something about, you know, like podcasting that I don't know since I've been doing quite a few episodes of the podcast myself.

0:57Before we get started with that, why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? We use this thing called the map. Basically, it's the mission, the achievements, and the purpose. So we would like to start with what you aim to achieve with your work. Achievements meaning anything that you are very proud of, notable milestones in your life or career. And the last one is the purpose. So why do you do what you do? So my mission as the head of creator partnerships at HubSpot is to grow the reach and demand of HubSpot by engaging best-in-class creators. That is the mission of our team and, of course, my mission.

1:33Personally, you know, I love working with creatives, so anything that I can do to support creators is something that is going to motivate me and just keep me really excited. In terms of accomplishments, we have built such an amazing, sophisticated program at HubSpot. I think in terms of working in the B2B industry, we are certainly a frontrunner in terms of our creator program. We've grown it since 2021 till now to be incredibly just sophisticated and successful. We work with podcasters, YouTubers, newsletter creators, social creators, so LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. And yeah, we've done a lot in the space.

2:15I actually didn't really realize how incredible my, well, I've always known how incredible my team is, but how much we have grown as a program until probably recently. I think we always have blinders on and we're just growing and innovating and building things so quickly and always thinking about growing and scaling. It's only been since recently that I've kind of reflected on all that we've felt and I'm really proud of that. So our purpose is to really engage creators in a meaningful way, right? So I think, yes, we are a brand, we are an advertiser, but at the end of the day, we want to build meaningful relationships with creators that are mutually beneficial and that creators, you know, find value in.

3:01And so our purpose as a team is to figure out, one, how can we support the business, grow the reach and demand of HubSpot, but also how can we be valuable to creators and think about partnerships outside of, you know, just monetary transactions? How can we support them growing and how can we support, you know, their goals? You know, it makes sense, right? Because many times it's not just about demonetization. It is an important component, right? But it's also how do you grow? How do you do it in a stable way? How do you get from having a passive audience to an active community, right? So I'm pretty sure that you can see a few things happening in that.

3:43And I wanted to ask you, how did it change your work? What was the evolution of your work in the Creative Partnership at HubSpot specifically? Have you seen big changes in the past years? Have you seen smaller changes? I'm very curious to see from your point of view what was the evolution there. Yeah. One thing I love about the creator economy is that it changes so fast. And it's a really exciting thing to be a part of because if you are someone that, you know, professionally you self-identify as a builder, you like building things, creating things, etc., this is a great industry to be in because you have to be innovative in order to keep up with the fast pace of the creator economy.

4:27So a lot has changed. A lot has changed since 2021. When we first started the podcast network, it was like pandemic, you know, everyone was listening to podcasts or it was really a time when the industry was really booming. And not to say that it isn't now, it certainly is, but a lot of people were discovering podcasts for the first time. And so what we saw, we really capitalized on that. And I think a long time ago, there was a stat that the average person listens to about six or seven podcasts. And so what we were trying to do at that time is to get at least each person to listen to three or four of ours.

5:06That was a really exciting time. But since then, we found other platforms that are growing and that we want to be a part of. I think the platform to watch right now in terms of the B2B industry is going to be LinkedIn. You know, a few years ago, maybe five years ago, I don't know. It all feels like a blur, to be honest. But when I used to think of LinkedIn, I used to think of a place where you put your resume and you get a job. And that's not necessarily the case anymore. You know, LinkedIn has really become a place for content creation and they launch new features all the time to encourage creators to make more content on the platform.

5:47And from a consumer standpoint, it's definitely become a place for education around your profession. Who do you follow and how can you become a better professional by, you know, having these what I call, you know, on-demand business mentors. And you can find a lot of that on LinkedIn. So I think we're seeing a lot of growth there and we're really excited to be a part of that growth. And, you know, circling back on the podcast network, right? Yeah, first of all, it's funny when you say, you know, right, you know, many people, right, find out about podcasting in 2021, right? When Feedback or SES, right, have been there for ages.

6:23I still remember, right, in the Web 2.0, basically, people are recording. Maybe the technology was not there, right? It was MP3s basically uploaded on the internet and then distributed through feed, RSS. And after that, everyone kind of opened a podcast during that period. A few people made it like really work on longevity of the episodes and others instead they recorded one episode and, you know, was it like that? So now I think that there is a database outside there of a few millions, right? Of podcasts. Some of them very successful, some that were kind of an experiment. How do you find those podcasts that you want to include in your network?

7:00What are the criteria, the factors that you look into to be like, this is going to be the next podcast that we want to include in the network? Yeah, there's a few things. One, when we listen to shows and we're always going to listen for production value, right? We want to ensure that our partners have high production and that they're making a great show editorially, you know, from a technical standpoint, all of those things. So that's like your first checkmark. Yeah. The second is the host. So is the host personable? Is it someone that you trust? Is it someone that, you know, for us, we're an advertiser, so we want to make sure that the audience really trusts and respects and admires the host.

7:47And we can see that through engagement with the podcast. And we can see that, yeah, like through their social profiles, et cetera. And then I guess the third would be audience alignment, right? So how does this show provide value to the people that we are trying to target specifically? So at HubSpot, we're looking, you know, we work with shows that cover marketing, sales, entrepreneurship, leadership, tech and AI. And so when we look at those categories and when we're looking at shows through the lens of those categories, we want to have a really good understanding of that audience and also that that host is really adding value to that category in a way that maybe other shows are not.

8:34And how big is it now, the network currently? The network currently, I think we have over 20 shows. We have quite a large network. We have our podcast network in of itself. Think of it as kind of a Netflix approach, right? So we have owned shows like My First Million, Marketing Against the Grain. And then we have creator shows that we love working with that also are a part of that network. So the network itself is pretty large. Amazing. Yeah, I've been, you know, listening for, you know, for a quite good time for my first million. It's I think I always find it very helpful, you know, especially for entrepreneurs like me, right?

9:13About talking the do's and don'ts and ins and outs of business. Definitely a good show there. Do these different shows help each other in any way? Like do they kind of add, let's say, in the description of the episode A, you can also check out this other one that can be relatable for you. What is the help and the sort of mutual, you know, like any beneficial, like, you know, mutually about podcast there? Yeah. So one thing about our network is, you know, we really want to encourage community. Right. And that goes back to creating meaningful business relationships that add value. And part of that is creating a community of creators that all have their own specific niche and are all adding a specific value.

9:57but together comprise an incredible business network. And so what we can do, because we focus so much on sourcing and really bringing in best-in-class creators, is that when you listen to any HubSpot podcast network show, you're going to hear two advertisements. You're going to hear one for HubSpot for our CRM, and then you're also going to hear an advertisement for another show in the network. And this was pretty unique to us when we started in 2021. we didn't start with, you know, 30 day flights. You know, we partnered with creators for two years. And so during that two years, we were able to promote their show and really help their show grow.

10:41And so that's one key component about the podcast network is that when you join, we are running ads for your show on other shows in the network. And then you are running ads for other shows in the network. So it really creates community in that way and allows us to have a growth strategy that leverages that community. And, you know, still on the topic about, you know, growing a podcast, it's not easy, right? It's one of those things that might be for many people, you know, challenging. And I talk with many people, creators, entrepreneurs, marketers, and they said that, you know, the production, of course, is very important.

11:21But one of the challenges for many people that I talk to is, again, how do you grow it? How do you bring it in front of people, right? We all know that sometimes still podcasting has this discoverability type of issue, right? Because unless you really have maybe an existing audience. So if you're not part of a network yet, right? So where you help each other out, what are some of the other tips in your opinion that someone that is either just get started or someone that feels stuck, right? And being stagnant with maybe their audience. they cannot get to the next level in terms of listenerships.

11:52What are some of the maybe the tips and tricks, strategy, tactics that can take action today already to get to the next level? I remember answering this question, I think it was a couple years ago, at Podcast Movement. And I think that this is something that, you know, everyone kind of wants to know, what are the growth tactics and how can I get there? You know, not dependent on I'm already a large show, maybe you're just starting out. So I would say networking is always a great way to go about it. It's specifically networking with other podcasters. So finding people that have complementary values to your show.

12:31So maybe, you know, you run an influencer marketing show. Maybe you're on a different marketing show where they're talking about other kinds of marketing tactics and you're talking about specifically influencer marketing. And what that will allow you to do is you will have the entire episode to really dive deep into your value proposition. So why should someone listen to your show? The value in that is that, yes, you can run advertisements for your show and have 30 to 60 seconds. But why do that when you can talk on a show for 25, 30 minutes and really talk about your purpose, your achievements, like all the things, why you do what you do.

13:12That's really what's going to bring people to your show and also create a space for them to start trusting you by getting to know you. So I would say being a guest on other shows is a really great tactic that doesn't require a lot of money, if any. All it requires is for you to network and, you know, become friends with other podcasters. There's also a benefit there because for so many creators that we work with, they work from home. They're kind of our solopreneurs for, you know, the beginning of their business. And so when you have a network of other creators, whether they're podcasters, they write a newsletter or maybe they're a YouTube creator, you can brainstorm and problem solve with them in a way that can be really beneficial.

14:01And so what we've found is because we have about 60 creators that are assigned to HubSpot, we've created communities where people can say, you know, I'm stuck. You know, these are my marketing tactics. These are the things that I've done. This has worked really well for me and this hasn't worked well for me. And people can weigh in. Oh, I tried that. You know, I tried that last summer and, you know, it did OK for me. but when I pivoted and did this, this really helped me. I think that we find that that's incredibly valuable. So I would say leveraging other creators or leveraging your relationships with other creators is a great way to grow your show without having thousands of dollars in ad budget.

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15:24Of course, it makes sense, right? Many times, as you said, an exchange, right, of kind of shout outs, it doesn't cost anything, right? If you are aligned on the fact that the audience is kind of the same in terms of size and, you know, either industry or niche, right, it's an easy one to do. What are the mistakes that you're noticing the most when it comes to podcasting, either on the technical side or on the approach, right? Is there anything that you've been noticing like over and over that you like recommend not to do to either people that want to start with podcasting or maybe people that, again, have been doing already, but for some reason, something is wrong there?

16:00In terms of mistakes, I don't know if I would call this a mistake, but I do think that having a regular cadence is important when you're starting off so people can start building your show into their habits. For me, I listen to podcasts in the morning. I listen to podcasts when I'm getting my nails done. I just have these certain moments in my schedule that are for listening to podcasts. And there are certain shows that I know what days they launch new episodes. And so I like work them into my schedule. I know that that's not not everyone can produce an episode a week. That's just not realistic for everyone.

16:44But I think it should be a goal or something to think about rather than like a seasonal approach. But I think it's just something to think about in terms of cadence. It also allows for an advertiser like us to really partner with you on a long term basis because we know that you're producing an episode a week. It's really easy to build a partnership based off of that cadence. So I don't think it's a mistake if you don't, just to be clear. I just think that there are benefits to having a regular cadence. I think it also, you know, of course, for the advertiser, but for the creator, you know, themselves, because they think that you're going to approach it in a very business, you know, oriented way where it's a job.

17:31It's something that I want to take it seriously. If I do it with a cadence, I know that is going to, I think it also kind of force you, right, to go out, right? If you don't have that sort of calendar with you, you could be like, ah, you know, whatever, I can postpone this. And then what happened is that, again, you see a lot of podcasts with three episodes. And that's about it, right? And then a kind of ghost town happening there. And so in addition to podcasting, you also mentioned newsletters, right? So we all know that in the past years, they became again a thing, right? So again, similar to podcasts, if you think about it, right?

18:02That was a thing and then kind of disappeared. And then now it's big again. newsletter did the same, right? They were big, then people didn't want to receive emails anymore. And now they were big, like, you know, they got popular again. Why do you think that now B2B creators are starting to take off so much again? You mentioned before LinkedIn that it changed from only resume type of thing to networking, content creation and so on. Are there any other factors, you think, that happened in the past years that, again, helped like this, like kickstarting the B2B creators, you know, like Arena? Yeah, for specifically newsletters, I think that because the creator economy is changing so fast, people are mindful about the fact that changes to an algorithm can deeply affect their revenue, can affect their ability to distribute their content.

18:54And so I think that we're seeing a lot of people really invest in newsletters so that they can own their audience. And I would say that that's really important in today's creator economy is to own an audience and to have those emails. Those emails are important. They are valuable and they translate into very real dollars. And so I think that that's from the creator side, why we are seeing people really take their newsletter very seriously and are trying to build up their newsletter. And I think for the consumer side, it's nice to have in-depth content in a written form and people will follow their favorite creators onto pretty much any platform.

19:35So I can definitely understand why newsletters specifically are doing well. I also think that there's always news, right? So when we think about, you know, we work with a lot of tech and AI creators and AI news comes out every day. So I think that people want to be at the forefront of AI, understand how to use it, understand what's being launched. And newsletters are a great way for you to kind of stay ahead of the game in terms of AI innovation. So that's what I would say specifically about newsletters, but in terms of other changes or what was the question was? You know, like just understanding a bit more why now, right?

20:18Like if you notice anything, you know, again, in addition to, you know, LinkedIn pushing, right? More content and, you know, again, newsletter. Yeah, they're like, you know, HubSpot and other, right? You know, platformers, how they're offering that. But that has been there forever type of thing, right? So, you know, I was like wondering if you notice anything else, maybe either in society or in the creative economy itself, that kind of kickstarted everything, right? because now it's getting very popular in terms of like, you know, B2B creators. So we're just like curious, maybe if you work into these, like, you know, on a day-to-day type of, you know, operation, if you notice anything else that maybe the rest of the people don't see.

20:56I don't know if this is something that people don't see, but I would say I think of our creators as on-demand business mentors, which I shared with you earlier. And we're in a interesting economy right now where people are really thinking about their jobs, They're thinking about their professions. And so having easy access to people that are going to give you a competitive advantage is incredibly impactful right now. So it would make sense why B2B or specifically business creators, tech and AI creators are doing really well now and I foresee will do very well moving forward. People want the information and the value that they are giving.

21:41And so I think that we're going to see more B2B creators have incredibly large audiences and offer those things that are going to help, you know, marketer. If you're a marketer right now, of course, you're probably following a couple of CMOs or marketers on LinkedIn. You might be following, you know, two or three marketing newsletters. And these are the kinds of things that you need to do to have a competitive advantage in your space. And so I think that that kind of answers like a why now question is like looking beyond just like the creator economy and just looking at the economy as a whole and how important, you know, it is to build your resume and be, you know, top of your field.

22:30So that's one thing that I would say would back why business creators are growing and why we're going to, you know, see them grow throughout 2025 and on. Makes absolutely sense. And the last thing that I wanted to cover, you already mentioned at the beginning, there is monetization, right? I know that is subjective. Some people want to go with brand deals. Some others, they prefer a sort of like, you know, CPM model. Some others. Do you have any recommendation for people that want to level up their monetization strategy? Like, is there something that would you recommend to people listening today?

23:01Yeah, I love having this conversation and thinking about how to consult people on brand partnerships, because clearly that's what I do and I love doing it. So here are some things that I would say for creators. One, if you are interested in doing brand partnerships and you're kind of like, who should I start with? I think you should start with the brands that you use. You know, let me look at your the tech that you use to create your content. And if you're a woman, what's in your purse? If anyone what's in your backpack, what can't you live without? Those are the brands that you should go after first, because you're going to be able to do really good ads.

23:43Like you are going to be able and also you're not sacrificing the trust that you have with your audience. every day brand partnership. You're saying, hey, I use this every day. I find it incredibly useful. I think you will too. And you would probably already recommend it to your audience because you love the product. We find that quite a bit with some of our creators that actually use HubSpot to run their business, right? And so when they do ads, they can go in depth into why our product it's incredibly beneficial to them growing and scaling their business. So that's the first step I would just say is like look at what's around you and go after brands that are already a part of your life.

24:28In terms of the monetization piece, I would also say there's, you know, getting your foot in the door. Actually, before we even go there, you find the brands that you really want to work with. Then you create a really good media kit. A media kit is so important for brands, not just because it shows like you can design something really nice, but it understands, it shows us that you understand your audience. You know who's listening to your show. You know where they are located. You may know their ages. You have maybe some other qualitative data. This is where also newsletters comes into play because you can send out surveys and newsletters and get some real time data from your audience that you can offer to those brands.

25:16So say, for example, this is probably a really bad example, but I'm staring at my water bottle right now and it's a great one. And if I'm like, okay, I use this water bottle every day and, you know, I want to work with this brand. Then when I share this, you know, maybe I want to ask my audience, what water bottle brands do you buy and list the brand that I'm interested in to see if other people in my audience already are using it and how often maybe they drink from their water bottle or do they take their water bottle everywhere with them? And when you're able to bring that like unique data, right, there's the stuff that's on your back end, right?

25:55Like the number of listeners you have, where they're located and in the globe, you know, around the world, their ages. But when you can go deeper and say, these are the things that my audience really values. These are, if you're in the business space, these are the professions that they have. This is where they are in their professions. So am I, you know, I'm mainly talking to C-suite executives or I'm mainly talking to people who are just starting their careers, all of that information is incredibly important to a brand. And it really shows that you're taking your content very seriously. And you also take your audience seriously, that you value them and that you know a lot about them.

26:36And for us, one of those clues is when creators say that they have like community events or offline events, where they're having one-on-one conversations with people that follow them, they're getting insights and getting really deep into how their audience members think and why, you know, they're listening to their show. So I would say like that's the second step is figure out the brands, create a media kit with some unique, incredible data that you gathered from your audience. And then third is to think about like what type of creator partnership business model works best for you. I always think it's great to go for brand partnerships that are going to give you longevity and that are going to, you know, guarantee revenue over a course of months, right?