Building a Sustainable Future in Influencer Marketing w/ Tiffany Hardin (Gild Creative Group)

0:00I think brands can do a better job of working with creators and creating more of a safe space for them by truly being intentional about their lead.

0:14Hey, Tiffany, welcome to the show. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm excited to be here. Thank you. Thank you for joining me. Always curious to hear stories about people that went from one career to something totally different. And I think that is part of your story, right? So we're going to talk about it later today. But what I usually do, it is that it's just to know about yourself a bit more, right? For people listening today. And we have this thing called the map. Basically, it is divided in three sections, right? So the mission, what do you aim to achieve with, of course, your work, the achievements, anything that you're really proud of could be in your career, could be in your life, and the purpose.

0:56So in addition to why, sorry, the what do you aim to achieve is also the why do you do what you do. My name is Tiffany Harden, and I am the owner of Guild Creative Group and represent both founder CEO of both of those companies. Guild Creative Group, we're an influencer marketing company, really a creative agency that services brands to help them grow closer relationships with their consumer or their community and represent our mission there is to be the most useful global network for creators to realize sustainability in their careers. using operations. So in terms of things I'm most proud of, accomplishments, I think one, running a company for multiple years is an accomplishment.

1:42It takes a certain level of resilience and tenacity and a little crazy to be able to run an agency and to also continue this work in what really is the Wild West. So for me, it's being a part of different lists, but really, I think the main thing I'm most proud of is being able to cut checks to diverse talent upwards of like, I think we have, we've cut at least like over a million, I want to say closer to$2 million in checks to talent that may not have otherwise received it. And I think in terms of my purpose across both of my companies, the sort of line, the thread that is being woven within both of them comes down to, I think, this, which is I believe that when we use our social and creative capital, we can change the wealth outcomes for ourselves and our communities.

2:31and that only benefits everyone. And I get really excited about using my own social and creative capital to be able to do that in the world. Amazing. So, but also like, you know, you also come from a different, you know, before starting your own company, right? You were coming from, what was that? Strategic partnership. Is that correct? Were you in that world before? Yeah, so my career started in the music business. I was in talent management. So I worked in New York City for a hip hop talent management company called Violator and literally straight from college and into the into the fire, you know, and to date myself a bit.

3:10This is when you would have to when you're in New York, you had to go out on the street and put your hand up if you wanted to hail a cab, you know, like so this is pre Uber days. So this was like a time where there was no influencer marketing business. When I left talent management, I went into work in marketing and I didn't really know too much about the advertising business. But what I learned very quickly was that the most successful advertisers and marketers were ones that were leveraging culture and cultural passion points and interest as gateways to help sell whatever service product or idea that their client was looking to launch.

3:52And so when I was at the advertising agency, I was like, you know, why don't we use this BMXer to create this social video? Why don't we use different people that were cultural experts and influencers to participate in this work? And that was really the onset of influencer marketing. And that's how I really started to move from like just sponsorship opportunities with brands and properties to working with talent and bringing them partnership deals. Because I was at the agency, I was able to say like, oh, wait, I can do this for multiple entities, not just this one. So that's really how I started my career in influencer marketing.

4:32And what are some of the trends that they are noticing lately? Is there anything that is happening that you think people should really focus on these days? Are you noticing anything changing drastically in the influencer marketing industry? Well, I think the biggest part of what's happening right now is obviously AI, engineering AI is a useful tool to support the creator, of course, but also it's an interesting creator tool, right? So outside of its efficiency and productivity, it's an area where it's another expression of art. And I think in any type of true creator mediums, they look to do is figure out like, how can I leverage this to express myself and express an idea or express whatever.

5:16And that's what's been interesting is seeing how that plays a part in creator. There's both pros and cons to that, especially when we start thinking about ownership. And there's a great there's a talent right now who took like fun songs like of today and made them sound like old low town hits. Right. So like there there's, you know, like BBL Jersey, for instance, it's he remixed that to sound like a doo-wop song. There's different things like that that are fun and interesting and kind of are culturally relevant that are trends that are happening. But I think from an industry perspective, even having B2B creators, you know, I think just the term is being more expansive and figuring out, OK, who are we looking to comment and lead in terms of thought leadership in these areas?

6:04So I think that's a trend for B2B creators to make their mark and use their IP to generate wealth for themselves with brands as well. So it's not just folks that are like, well, I'll say like shucking and jiving on the Internet. You know, it's opening itself up to way more. And I think overall, just the trend of creators paying way more attention to their sustainability and how they can make a career out of this work and what tools and what practices are they leveraging. And that's where represent the tech startup that I'm building is coming into play because the white space that I've noticed is that there are a bunch of brands and agencies that are catering to advertisers and those with the big money bags, the publishers, the media companies, but they're not creating tools and systems and resources for creators who these brands are relying on to spread messages.

7:00So how do we fill that gap? And it's not just the management companies. It's some of these creators, they can't afford to have a management company or an agent. So how can they participate in the upside of a almost trillion dollar business, you know, without being a huge agency or a huge brand? And so it's kind of like a triple down effect when I start thinking about that. How sustainability can play a role in the trend for creators as we grow the business. Because that's really what it's about growing this industry. So you said, you know, resources, right? What could be some of the either resources or, you know, even, again, you know, practical, right?

7:39Business, you know, tips and creative skills that someone that is approaching now, you know, they are maybe creators that they want to get to the next level. So you said that it's something that you have to learn, right? Are there any specific things that you think are very important and crucial for content creators out there that they should learn from day one in order to navigate this world and do a good job and be, you know, in terms of both monetization and also like as a personal branding type of like, you know, building up and so on? So is there anything specific that comes to your mind when it comes to that?

8:10There's three things. One is I think it's important that you envision Cast. And what I mean by that is what are you doing this for? How do you see yourself? What's the highest version of this for you? Because your vision for this will determine your strategy, right? So start with your vision. Like, what do I see for myself? The second thing I would say practically is your operations. Like this is the, this is a thing that as a creative person, I used to run away from myself, which was how do I get done the things that I need to get done and who's helping me with that? And what do I know about my process?

8:50And so that could be hiring a virtual assistant to support your calendar, support, you know, the project management of the activities that you have to do, even the deals that you receive. Yeah, sometimes that's inbound, but when you get to a certain level, but as you're growing, you got to go out there and pitch yourself, right? So how are you keeping track of who's the right person to pitch, your relationships, things like that? That's important. And you can do that with a VA. This is where AI can come in handy for you to create templates, things like that. And then the second or the third thing would be finance.

9:26There's a point in time where as a 12 % of creators is, I think it's 12 % of creators make at least a hundred K. That's not a lot of people that make that, but like at least a hundred K and up, meaning most creators, like 73 % of creators are part-time. So most of them, I want to say like 25 % of them are making at least$50 ,000 a year. And if you're of the top percent of creators that are making a hundred K more in a year, that also means you have income that the IRS, you're in the USA, the IRS will come for your money because the company that paid you told the IRS they paid you. So the IRS is wondering, well, I'm going to tax you.

10:05So you have to be able to keep track of how you're getting paid, what you're using that money for, and are there tax benefits that you can be taking advantage of because essentially you're a small business, you know, you're a small business. And as a small business, you should, and potentially if you're creating a high vision for yourself, you're going to be operating a sophisticated business and that needs marketing and finance support. So I would say, find yourself a bookkeeper at a CPA that's helping you save money for your taxes, swirling that away for your quarterly tax payments. But also as you're creating, if you're hiring a videographer, if you're hiring someone to post for you or whatever, you're paying those people out and you wanna make sure you're getting the benefit of the doubt there and making sure you have an entity formation that supports you in that.

10:56So it's not the sexy stuff. It's not the sexy stuff, but it is the stuff that's going to save you time. It's going to save you a lot of heartache later. And it's going to remind you that you're, as a creator, building something that has a strong foundation where you're not sitting there going through old emails and receipts, trying to figure out where you put the money. You know, so those are the three things. Cast your vision, create an operational structure, get help, and then get financial support. Is your brand ready to amplify its reach? Well, the influencer marketing factory is here for you.

11:33We are a global influencer marketing agency helping brands ignite their growth. From influencer identification to campaign strategy, handling legalities and agreements, to managing shipping and logistics, we got you all covered. We work with hundreds of brands across different verticals, from Fortune 500 companies to direct-to-consumer brands. And we don't just stop there. With detailed ROI analysis, we help brands like yours measure success, transforming impressions into conversions. You can find us at theinfluencermarketingfactory.com or just searching the Influencer Marketing Factory on Google.

12:09Amazing tips. I do agree it's not the sexiest right things to talk about and that's boring you know for someone that is very creative but you have to know about that you have to if you especially if you have a long-term vision about yourself as a content creator you absolutely want to remove yourself from some of these tasks give it to someone else yes it could cost a bit more right so margins might be a bit thinner but that means that you can focus more on your creative process You can work on what you like instead of hating your day because, oh, I have to do the taxes. I have to look at those emails, I have to do spreadsheets and so on.

12:46Oh, yeah, because it's going to get done eventually and you're going to hate it and you put it off because you hate it. I know, exactly. So, yeah, for everyone listening, again, it's something that you have to start not only considering. You have to start doing that from today already. Let's still on the on the let's say on the financial side, right? One of the topics that of course, you know, we all see especially on social media. It's also, you know, pay disparities, right? There has been a big concerns about it. So also wondering like how do you advise influencers when you know when it comes to negotiate?

13:18Because negotiating are like, you know, campaigns. It's between a hard skill and a soft skill, right? Hard skill on numbers, soft skill on the communication and interpersonal sort of skills. How do you help influencers? How do you advise them when it comes to negotiate their prices? I've been doing this work for the better part of 15 years, negotiating with brands, negotiating with creators. Because I also run an agency where I ask creators to participate in brand campaigns. So sometimes they have a manager, sometimes they don't. I also coach creatives. So one of the things that I tell them is get all the facts.

13:54You have to get all the facts and then make informed decisions based on not just the price, but also what is it going to cost you to accomplish the activity that the company wants you to do? And is there a fringe benefit of being with and engaging in that practice? So for instance, I have a bag of chips sitting next to me, right? So like if that company, the Good Crisp company, if they were like, hey, we want you to do this post for us, that might be very transactional for me. I'd be like, that's what it is. Call it a day. There might be another company that I'm really interested in and that's been on my list.

14:33and they're like, maybe they are paying me less, but I get to have more engagements with them. I get to request more from them. Maybe if it's, okay, pay me less, but pay me quickly. Or pay me less, but I want to be able to have another meeting with you to talk about my ideas and what I want to do and what I want to achieve. So if there's more fringe benefit and opportunity to build relationship, take advantage of that. Sometimes to your point about interpersonal communication, the negotiation starts with how you make somebody feel on either side of that fit. Well, if I was really intentional about, you know, I really want to work with this person, but I couldn't figure out how to negotiate with them or made them feel like their interests are being protected, then we're not going to have a deal.

15:27If I'm able to be in a position where I and say, hey, look, like, I know this is really important to you, but this is what's important to us. And so we need to figure out how we can meet in the middle and what we can both give on and take the time to figure those things out versus having such a hard boundary or a hard line. Have boundaries, but like have a if you have a hard line, you're not really interested in negotiation. It's my way or the highway. And that's how you quickly can turn someone off and then just never have the relationship again. And it's okay to say no. Like, this is really awesome.

16:01You know, whatever your reasons are, it's okay to say no, but have a confident no and have a confident yes. Don't say yes. And then have so much resentment for that. Yes. Be clear about it. I think that's what builds relationship. And I think if I can give folks a piece of advice around negotiation, it's know what your boundaries are, know what the minimum, your basement price and what you're, you know, there's never a, I mean, the max price is going to be out the roof, right? But like know what your basement price says, and know what as as people ask for usage and, you know, other things from the contract, how that gets higher and higher and higher.

16:37And if they want to negotiate you down, be prepared to say, Okay, I'm happy to do this price, but this is what it means for that price. So being able to be smart enough or wise enough to understand your contracts, and what is more effort and more lift from you versus like what the give get is. I think there's always going to be room for a value exchange. You just have to be really clear about what matters to you. These are great tips for influencers, especially when it comes to, you know, setting up floor price and understanding, again, it's not just about the money, sometimes it's about the values.

17:12So there are so many things to look at. Great tips. What about the brand side? I already said a couple of things, But is there anything when you think about, you know, oh, if, you know, when that brand approached us in that way, we didn't like it for that reason. You said that brand when approached us, not just, you know, that offer, but they also explain us in this way that therefore we like them more. Like, are there any tips that you would give to brands when they approach influencers? So, you know, to see both sides. I love that question. I think brands can do a better job of working with creators and creating more of a safe space for them by truly being intentional about their needs.

17:51Like they'll say, oh, I like this creator for how they show up on their page. But when it's time for them to do the work for the brand, you're like, OK, but do it this way. It's like, OK, yeah, I can also know it's not going to perform because I'm the expert on how I perform on my page. So the brand has to be super clear about what their goals are. And if their goal is just to, I know brands that are like, I just want to have some funny videos out in the world, or they're like, I really need to get these app downloads. And so we're going to work with influencers. You know, you have to be really clear with your KPI and also recognize that this business is top of funnel marketing work.

18:31So as a marketer, as a brand marketer, sometimes people forget that when you're working with influencers, this is top of funnel brand awareness. and even for those that are in D2C, working with D2C brands where they want their consumer download, they want the sale for their shoes with the code that they let the influencers use, that's all well and good. That's for folks that are coming down the funnel. It is the marketer's job to make sure that they've set up systems around that influencer work so that they are helping to bring those customers down the funnel And I think that's the part of this business that brands tend to forget.

19:11So I would encourage brands to remember, you're still the marketer. You're still the marketer. They are amplifying an idea, an experience, an opportunity for their consumers, but it is up to the marketer. And that means that social media team, it has to be on point. The folks that are operating those UTM links, making sure like those clicks mean something. So the creator has done their job. You got to do it. So in my mind's eye, I think a tip for the brands is to remember where does influencers play a role in our activity, in our marketing activity? and does that KPI, whatever it is, is it isolated KPI or is it something that plays a bigger part in the larger marketing picture?

20:02And in this particular industry, there are a lot of folks who are in influencer marketing, but they're really just at the surface level of it. And so they're not looking at all the interdependencies across departments as to what can make something successful. And I think when you're doing something, and there's things that can be done that are like, oh, this is fun, this is cool, whatever. But then there are other brand launches that have interdependent opportunities where you could look at a solid marketing plan for a project or campaign and say, when we work with these influencers, that created a swell of attention that we were able to grab.

20:43But like our social media team saw that they were able to comment, do a direct DM so that people were clicking links and doing whatever so there are things that there are ways that people can be collaborative to make sure you know some of these campaigns do really well but for a lot of people they're they're not thinking about the the full 360 picture they're just thinking about this isolated piece of it so and if you're thinking that way that's all you're going to get so it's not going to have a lot of rooted energy it's just going to be it's going to fall it's going to flash and then fall flat yeah no I do agree we've seen that happening right like a big you know a peak and then decreasing rapidly if you as you correctly said if you don't think it as part of a 360 approach especially these days right where I said at the time we went from a nice to have like in France it was a nice to have to a must have therefore you should think about like what is is it going to be a part of something bigger if so yes how do we implement things and also like that appreciate when you say about you know certain brands coming to you and be like oh we love your content but then when it comes to the campaign, they give you a script, they give you something to basically just repeat.

21:49And customers and users are not stupid, right? They're not dumb. They will see through that and be like, you know what, this is not your typical content, therefore it's not going to work. I think that's part of it also educating clients and understanding why you should trust the creator because they know what works for their audience, right? And sometimes they know social media better than many, you know, marketers working for brands out there. But to start wrapping, you know, the episode, I would love to hear just, you know, a couple of minutes left. What do you think is the future of the influencer market?

22:23I know, big question. I know, like, oh boy. No, you know, the future of influencer marketing is really interesting because it just got started. Like, we're just, we're just getting here. And the things that I've been seeing has been people really leaning into sort of owned and operated community and having tribes. And I think that anytime, anywhere, any place, no matter what you call it, anytime you're able to serve universal need, like belonging, there's going to be opportunity to make some coins there. And I think that what creators, especially those who have sort of come up through this, like I started this work when I was in my twenties and I am in my thirties now.

23:13So like those of us who are, who have evolved in our life stages, we can see that there's legs to, to this that go much deeper than any social media platform. So I think the future of influencer marketing for the creator is going to be how well they are committing themselves to not only their creative craft, but like their business and how well they're able to say, okay, this is something that I own. I'll always have a sales funnel. I don't have to always rely on brands. I can create my own IP and put it out into the world. People will buy it. So I think that's one area. And then I think for the industry, I think the industry, there's always a new crop of new creators.

24:00Like there's like artists and musicians, right? So the industry is always going to pay people to help them communicate an idea for a product or whatever to service that culture or that community. There will always be a new coffee bean, a new chip, a new shoe, a new whatever. And there's always going going to be someone that says that works better for me than that at this time. And I'm going to tell my friends. So I think there's always going to be a really healthy industry for influencer marketing. I think the future of it is going to be how well can brands bring more humanity into the creator relationship that they have?

24:45Because the more advertisers and brands treat creators like their billboards, the less creators are going to care as well. And that means that the creative aspect of it will dwindle because it's going into F you pay me mode versus, oh, I love this. Let's collaborate on this. This means something to me. And I think we were hitting a peak where it's like, I know my worth and I need to get paid what I need to get paid. And marketers, we're the ones that set the tone, you know, and now we need to kind of figure out how we can backtrack a bit and like make sure that we're treating creators, not like a billboard on the street, but as creative collaborators that can help us grow our businesses.

25:38Totally. No, very, very good point. I do agree a hundred percent. especially for the future of this economy that is going well. But yes, we have to adjust a couple of things if we want to continue growing in the organic, nice way instead of like getting, again, peak and then destroy, you know, type of thing. But yeah, I wanted to thank you, Tiffany, for joining me today. This was great. Thank you for all your knowledge that you shared with us. And yeah, I just like to be an amazing guest today. Thank you so much. This was fantastic. I was looking forward to having this conversation with you. I love talking about this industry.

26:14It matters so much to me. Like I said, my purpose has been to make sure we're using our social and creative capital to bring positive outcomes in this world. And, you know, you being able to create this podcast and to share knowledge with more people, it does exactly that. So we're operating in alignment right now. Yes. Love it. Again, thank you so much, Tiffany. This was the Influence Factor by the Influencer Marketing Factory and I'll see you next week.