S1 EP3: Amelia Dimoldenberg on viral fame, Jiggle Jiggle and dealing with anxiety

29:48what I can do I guess is just make sure that my team is diverse that I never have all white crews that I'm doing as much as I can in terms of like giving workshops or giving advice to young people like I did have a work experience program that I'd love to bring back this summer to give access to more people and yeah just to make sure that the content of my shows continues to be great and that no one has an issue with the content you know. Very good. How comfortable are you talking about your personal life in what sense are you in a relationship no I'm just you know why I'm laughing is because I've watched so many interviews of you that you do and I also feel like when you're an interviewer yourself it's strange when people ask you questions about yourself anyway carry on you went out with H for a bit yeah but you're on record that's not you I think that's you've talked about that you talked about your chemistry yeah we got great chemistry meaning what i don't know like we go on really well people can see the chemistry between us i don't really know yeah exactly what does chemistry mean you've done chemistry together what louis so you went out for a week or so yeah for those who don't know he's a very talented rapper from manchester i believe Yeah, he is.

31:09Who's got a huge following. He's got what? A huge following. He's got a huge following, yeah. How big is his following? Louis, you're actually ridiculous. We've gone very low road. We really have. No, that was, it was very intense that period of time. It made me think, I don't really know how people date people who are in the public eye. It's so overwhelming. And then also it's like... Did you have paparazzi around? No, I've never actually been followed by paparazzi. It was just a bit of a whirlwind of a lot of attention. From? From the media. But then we were also putting it out there. So it was sort of like...

31:47So you were playing with it? Yeah. But it was all just snowballed, basically. So the relationship couldn't withstand all the scrutiny? Yeah, exactly. That's exactly why it deteriorated. It was just too much. And also, I wanted to date other people. Who? On my dating show. But you can't really interfere one with the other, can it? No, I have been in a relationship before when I had the show. But since then, I haven't been actually seriously dating anyone. Why not? Because no one asks me out. Come on. Maybe I'm just too picky. I don't know. You need to lower your standards, maybe. I think I maybe need to lower my standards.

32:27Maybe I'm reaching for the stars, literally. Don't go chasing waterfalls. Yeah. Stick to the rivers and the valleys you're used to. I'm in the mood to fall in love, for sure. I think it's going to happen for me this year. That's quite a high bar. Maybe you should just be looking for fun. Yeah, well, I'm also looking for that, but that seems even harder. Do you think guys might have an issue that I have a dating show? It really doesn't feel like a real... I hate to break it to you. They don't feel like you're on a real date. What? I know. What? It feels like you're having a bit of fun. Are you serious?

32:55Except when you did Lady Leisure and she kept inviting you back to her flat. Yes, you did. I couldn't figure that out. I didn't go. No, obviously it's not a real date. But sometimes I do think, why couldn't I meet someone? on the show. Am I crazy for thinking that? Is that really deluded of me? Not really. To me, it feels like you just meet someone in the office. Well, I think so. It's as valid a place as anywhere else. Sometimes the lines are blurred and I think it confuses me sometimes. That's why sometimes I think I should just end the show and then maybe I actually will really fall in love.

33:25I can see that. A long time ago, I had to do an episode of Weird Weekends where I went to a swingers party. I've seen that one. And I had to bring a date. And so part of the program followed me placing an ad, meeting a woman and taking her to the swingers party where I was going to swing potentially with her. And the whole thing felt quite uncomfortable. Obviously, I wasn't really going to swing as in have sex with this virtual stranger on BBC Two. Not BBC Two. I know of all the channels to do it on. Maybe Channel Four. I know I was in a relationship at the time. It all just felt very uncomfortable and I didn't enjoy it.

34:02Similarly, I did one about a brothel and I got a massage from a woman who worked there called Hayley. And I had to show it to the woman who's now my wife, you know, before it went out. I was like, well, here's me half naked being massaged with oils in the Wild Horse Resort and Spa. And my wife was very cool about it, but I didn't like it. So I think that does that relate to what we're talking about? Well, no, not really, because I'm not getting massaged like that in a spa. no but it's not far off i think it is it's a similar sort of same ballpark well no i don't know i would hate to do anything like that i am always across the table from someone and like never gets heated in any way other than when matty healy like asked to kiss me but then i just said that was a good episode i know i love that episode because he was willing to sort of raise the stakes and also he's got this interesting sort of borderline angry energy what does he say commit to the bit if it's going to be a date then you should kiss me he says I do genuinely find you quite attractive just to break the fourth wall and you say I just smoked a cigarette I can't reach it was quite I like to see you out of your comfort zone I think in general when I see prank adjacent style interviews I like it when there's this danger of the interviewer is not completely in control and that was one of those where you felt actually I think Amelia's met her match with this one.

35:31Have you ever had a moment like that when you felt out of control? Always but that's what I sort of specialize in trying to get out of my depth that's the 10 word version of how I describe my approach to documentaries. Really? Is I try to get out of my comfort zone. But are you doing that because at the end of the day you know that you're going to be in the edit? I'm doing it because I want to make a compelling TV program and I'm comfortable doing it because I know that there's a safety net of the edit. And if it doesn't work, we'll just clip it out. But if I'm interviewing someone and it's a borderline confrontational interview, like as a guy I interviewed, he was basically a lion breeder who would invite people to shoot lions on his property.

36:14in this semi-enclosed space. And I said, well, what kind of hunting is that? It's like tennis without a net. And he said, you've asked me that fucking question 15 times. I don't care about it. He said, no, I hate fucking elephants. They don't eat the shitty bush. They eat the fig bush. And then he comes up and puts his hand over the thing. And I'm thinking, A, is he going to hit me? Because he looked like he might. And I'm visibly scared if you look at the materials in the program. But mainly I'm thinking, wow, this is the good stuff. yeah you're out of your comfort zone but then it also seems like you've got someone on the edge of something it's conflict yeah it's uncomfortable i mean that's awkward which i think is perhaps not the mood that you're going for is h going to punch well h isn't a good example well i didn't know that matty would do that like that was completely of course there was and that's what i also love about the show is that i can prepare my questions but i never know what they're going to say.

37:25You're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast.

37:32This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete. I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space. As it happens, neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Ah well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing to product descriptions to sales.

38:14The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S. That's shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S.

38:39Hi, I'm Louis Theroux and you're listening to the Louis Theroux podcast. And now back to my conversation with Amelia de Moldenberg. We've got so much good stuff and I haven't really got to the main point.

38:53I mean, I suppose the main, it was not really, it was a joke. Really, it would be nice to get a little sense of where you grew up, a little bit about your parents and sort of background. I grew up opposite Edgware Road Station in north-west London. Not on the actual road because it's quite a busy road. Yeah, it's a really busy road. Six lanes of traffic. Yeah, you were actually on that road. Yeah. Quite high up. Yeah, fourth floor. And even with the double glazing, really noisy. And then also it is one of the most polluted roads in Europe. I cycle along it several times a week. And I would be walking down that road to get to school every day for my whole adolescence.

39:29So I am pretty concerned about mine. And they still had lead in the petrol in those days. Did they? No. Oh, sorry. They did in the 70s. No, I wasn't around in the 70s. My postcode is NW1, but I would say it's more central London, really. It really is. It's like really in the middle of London. No one really lives there. Yeah, no one lives there. Except diplomats. None of my... And Radio 1 DJs. Well, actually, there's lots of different people who live around there. Not many families. You just not think, oh, I want to raise my kids next to Europe's most polluted road. There are lots of people who live around Edgware Road.

40:00Well, your parents, they just like city life, I guess. Yeah, they do. It's crazy to me because I'm always like, guys, why are you still living here? And they also sometimes do complain a lot about the noise and the sirens and the building work that's always going on. And I'm like, why don't you just move? Anyway, they like it. So I grew up there with my mum, my dad and my sister. Your dad was a Labour councillor. Yeah, he is a Labour councillor. Still is. He's been a Labour councillor for over 30 years, always in the opposition and Westminster Council, never actually in charge. Then last year, Labour won in Westminster for the first time in a very, very, very long time.

40:35And it was actually the year that he was meant to retire. And everyone had bought his retirement present. My mum was really excited for him to retire with her because she was a librarian and now she's retired. Librarian in the same area? Librarian, Hammersmith and Chepesbush Library. Really? Yeah, so we spend a lot of time in libraries. Like after school, we just always go to the library. My family's massive bookworms. Oh, that's lovely. Do you read a lot? No. Why not? Well, I do, but I don't. They read like a book a week. They're like insane. I don't do that because I just have never been into reading as much as them, but they're really, really well read.

41:09And it is great because I actually kind of use them for their knowledge. So I just basically like leech off their knowledge of their books. In what situations? I don't know, like with my sister. You've got one sister? One sister, yeah. And we work very close. A year younger, I believe. She's 18 months younger, yeah. She was a year below me at school. And we're really close and we live together. and she's so well read and she's honestly one of the smartest people I've ever met like she purposefully watches University Challenge and like will answer like a lot of the questions I like the use of purposefully as opposed to accidentally sorry I meant more she watches University Challenge and purposefully answers the questions that's normal I think I don't think in my world yeah in your world that is for sure that's your world Louis Thru world yeah but I don't know I just think she's very smart and so I like to ask her opinion all the time on stuff and my parents too sometimes they'll also like let me know about certain things i don't know i just think that it's great that they read because it's important it's an important skill but they read for pleasure i think is your point sorry they read for pleasure and basically yeah my dad is still a labour councillor because they won in westminster and now he's busier than ever actually being whatever his job is i think he's in charge of the streets that's very apropos isn't it keeping the streets It's clean.

42:23He's on the road. He's on the road. He's out on the streets. You're a chicken shop date. You must know about being on the road. It means you're fully in the lifestyle. Yeah, okay. He's gangster. Well, he's gangster to a level. He's on the streets. He's gangster in terms of... Dealing. Dealing streetlights and good parking. Yeah. It's a hot commodity. We should probably talk about Jiggle Jiggle just for a second, shouldn't we? Yeah, sure. Why not? So just to get this out of the way, I don't know if you knew this. I had a viral rap track called Jiggle Jiggle. I had no idea about that. My money don't jiggle jiggle, it folds.

42:54I'd like to see you wiggle wiggle, for sure. It makes me want to dribble dribble. You know. That's as much as you're going to get. Well, we don't get the riding in the Fiat. Riding in my Fiat. You really have to see it. Six feet two with a compact. No slack. But luckily the seats go back. Got an act to relax in my mind. I'm sipping on some red, red wine. The full story is obviously when you hosted me on Chicken Shop Dates, you asked me about the rap, I did the rap. you were kind enough your team was to send over a rough cut to give us an idea of what it was going to look like and I don't think I've told you this I mean I'm not the best judge of what's funny and what's not when I'm involved right okay and certainly not for your audience I did think wow they put the rap in okay my wife looked at me was like oh tell them to take the rap out you know everyone knows that rap it's so old and I was like yeah I know what you mean but they know their audience and let's not get in the way isn't that extraordinary though because it turns out that was my route to fame and vast wealth so then what happened from my end was a few weeks after it went out everyone was happy and it was and people said oh that's really funny and then a few weeks on from that my agent got in touch and said that tiktok had been in touch their computers were blowing up because of the vast demand for the tiktok rap sensation that was Jiggle Jiggle.

44:15It had been remixed by Duke and Jones in Manchester. Two young women called Jess and Brooke in South London had done a dance and celebrities around the world, including Shakira, Snoop Dogg, Lizzo, Megan Thee Stallion, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez. She was basically one of the first adopters. And others, to name a few, were doing the dance and doing the rap or whatever. And then it was getting literally hundreds of millions and then maybe even billions of streams and views. Now, granted, it's only about 10 or 12 seconds long. It's not like watching a half hour long program. But nevertheless, it was huge.

45:01And then, as you know, we ended up doing a video for it. Jason Derulo sang on it. We drove around East London in a fiat you've made a weird sound with your lips no i'm just remembering it like was that boredom no well i have heard i do know this whole story is this for the audience a lot of people might not know about this sorry of course yeah i know they yeah i wish i could do that with my lips it was like a horse whinnying sorry no i'm not bored i'm not bored i can't do it sorry carry on i don't know i'm not going to say any more about it now no it wasn't ruin my flow i've lost my place it didn't I didn't I didn't mean to do that I've thrown guys can we stop for a second I've thrown I don't know I don't honestly you got to the end of the story I hadn't okay because there was a bit about walking past schools wait it's not weird let me finish the sentence I would walk past schools and the little children would come and would flock to me okay and say jiggle jiggle or it's Louis Theroux believe it or not eight nine ten year olds why were you walking by schools you're thinking because I have children I would drop them off at school and I live near a school and then even in America when I went on holidays this is going on for ages no it's not everyone's really enjoying this story and basically it conquered America and even in America I would get stopped it was like Beatlemania Beatlemania and people would run around chasing me down the road and you said thanks for the interview now I can't leave the house without being hounded by young people.

46:31By tweens and young teens. And I thought, oh my God, I've ruined Louis Theroux's life. Well, you definitely didn't ruin my life. The only downside is I feel I got famous to a level that I'd never experienced before based on something I don't actually do. Isn't that so crazy though, that you could never have imagined what happened? I never imagined and also never replicate. You know, it's not like they've found out that I I write poetry and everyone loves it. And I've got reams of the stuff. It's like, it's something that I don't do. I'm not a rapper and I don't write comedy viral raps. But I feel like if you...

47:06And now I feel like I want more. I've had a taste of paradise. Yeah. And I've got nothing left. Just the whole thing was just so brilliant. Like everything about it. And also just how joyful the whole thing is. Like it's just a fun song, which loads of people of all ages can dance and sing to. And I just think that's a great thing to be a part of. Briefly, because they've heard my version, I'm not sure how interested people are in your side of it, but briefly, what was your experience of being part of my rap sensation? Just that, just like I said. I just think it's so fun to be a part of something that was just so fun within its nature.

47:46How did you find out that it had become the biggest thing in the history of the world? Probably through you just banging on about it the whole time. If I'm being honest, I never could have imagined that that's how whatever relationship we have, whatever's going on, our best friendship that we have. Professional respect. Professional mutual respect. I always thought that maybe the way that I would meet you would be like at one of your book tours. You used to imagine meeting me. Yeah, that I would put my hand up in one of your book tours and be like, can you calm down? that I would put my hand up and be like, oh, I've got a question about your interview style, blah, blah, blah.

48:24But actually what really happened was... Why would you put on that voice? So you would not recognise me as I was in disguise. And actually the way that it's happened is just not what I would ever imagine that we'd actually then have a song together that we'd film a music video for where we'd be riding around in a FIA and I'd be wearing a Gucci headscarf. And now I'm here talking about it again on your own podcast. Like you can never imagine. And that's what I love. about the world you can have ambitions or you can have dreams or whatever of things but then they just don't ever happen in the way that you think that they will and they may be happening an even better way that's nice so it was an ambition to meet me on a book tour you had it all planned out no well yeah just it was an ambition of mine to meet to meet you and to talk to you yeah and now I'm really talking to you way too much and actually if anything I think we should just stop talking to each other what would you have asked me I would have asked you a very insightful brilliant question that i would have thought about long and hard and you would have been really impressed and you would have thought oh my god who's that she needs to actually never planned the actual question what and bring me on to the team and bring me on to the team oh you've also got lots of other series you do you do a cooking one we've only spoken about chicken shop day but it's significant it gets a lot of views and your other stuff gets views but not mega no the brand name is big with the chicken shop date for sure you do the cooking show cooking show that I'm probably not going to continue doing because I just think I had fun now.

49:53I don't want to move on. Been there, done that. Been there, done that. And you've done your red carpet chats. Can you hear my stomach rumbling? Are you hungry? I can't actually. Okay, fine. Are you alright? Yeah, no, I'm okay. Do you want a sandwich? No, no, I'm good. Do you want some chicken nuggets? I was just concerned that you'd hear that. Paul, is the sound alright? I don't think we can hear that rumbling. Sounds fine. Oh yeah, the red carpet stuff I've been doing, that's been great. I've actually been doing red carpet interviews for a while. The first red carpet interview I did was at the MOBO Awards over five years ago maybe and I loved it and I loved that style of interviewing people.

50:23Which is what? Off the cuff. Live in the moment nothing drags because it's just moving moving moving. And that's so my style of like wanting to just be quick and feel like there's a real energy there. I knew that that's what I wanted to do moving forward like maybe like two years ago. More red carpet stuff. Yeah because I like doing them and I thought that would be a great way for people to know that I can do more than chicken shop day and that I have a skill as an interviewer and I can be placed in numerous different situations that I can still do a great job and can get some great things out of people and I also love the challenge of the red carpet because you can have an idea of who's going to be there but you never know actually who you're going to get so it's up to you to be able to wrangle the interview with people it's up to you to make the most out of the one minute you have with someone so there's a lot of parameters that are put on the situation and you have to thrive within it and I like that the challenge you did a famous red carpet interview famous as in it went viral with Andrew Garfield yeah it was flirtatious they said you weren't you at the Oscars as well or was it Golden Globes I did the red carpet the Golden Globes and then I also did the Vanity Fair throw some big names at me Pedro Pascal he's good from The Mandalorian.

51:38From The Mandalorian, yeah. Did Pedro Pascal show any evidence of knowing who you were? I don't think so. No. No. It'd be hard to tell under that mask. Well, he wasn't wearing the mask. Oh. Yeah, you know, yeah. I thought he wasn't allowed to take it off. No, I know, I know. No, they changed his contract. That's a very in-joke for fans of The Mandalorian. If you like Star Wars jokes, email me and I'll give you some more. Great. We're nearly there. No, I'm not. Okay, fine. I'm enjoying this. We've got loads. But can I say something? I think I will say it anyway. What's striking about your journey is that you've achieved amazing success and done great work purely on your own efforts, right?

52:13You're one of these people who's come up via YouTube, the Web 2.0, without having to be at the whims of commissioners or conventional television makers. You've carved your own furrow. Does that make sense? Yeah. You're a totally self-created, albeit with your team and people around you and support, a self-created media brand and entity. and actually when I've seen your outings on TV they've always been good but it never felt like it was as good not as good but it felt like well you've already built your own ship you don't really need to do time on any other ship if that metaphor makes any sense I get what you mean minus the ship reference but I agree and I think that's something I'm also realising more and more now I think when you're starting out if you're someone like me who grew up watching a lot of linear television you're always going to have ambitions to maybe go into the more traditional worlds of media.

53:06That's why I've said yes to opportunities in that world. But you are right in that actually, I don't really need to be doing that because my audience I've already made for myself and they're on my channel or they're on the internet in the ways that I've created for myself. But I also would say that there is something to be said about being seen in more traditional media because then you broaden yourself up to a bigger audience. Do you know the average age of viewers of BBC Two? The average age of viewers of BBC Two? Probably like over 60. It's like 67 or something. No, I know what you mean. So the idea of broadening your audience, yeah, if you want to get a lot of older people, nothing wrong with that.

53:46I'm an older person myself, but you don't really need it. Yeah, I think that's something that I'm also realising now too. Actually, I've really found it difficult to be commissioned by linear places. It seems to be always a no or it's not quite right kind of thing. And that's why, essentially, I'm really glad that I have my own YouTube channel to self-publish my formats. Like with my cooking show, for example, at one point I would have loved that to be actually on television. But there was no interest. So I just thought, hang on, I've got a whole huge audience of people that are actually already engaged in what I'm doing.

54:21Why don't I just make it myself? Have they asked you to do Strictly? Maybe. They definitely have, haven't they? Are you doing it? No, I'm not doing it. What about Celebrity Bake Off? I would love to do Celebrity Bake Off. They said no. They said no? Yeah, they said no last year. They're supposed to ask you. You don't ask them. No, I asked them because I was like, I want to go on Celebrity Bake Off. And what did they say? They said no, but they said, I'm sure one day we'll be banging on the door. Shame on them. And I said, yeah, you bloody will. But I still... Maybe you don't want them. I still do want to do Celebrity Bake Off.

54:57What I really want to do is, who do you think you are? Do you? So, if anyone's listening... What would they find out? Well, I don't really know that much about my family. I think you have Jewish heritage. Yeah, exactly. My dad's Jewish. Hence the de Moldenburg? And everyone always says to me, where is de Moldenburg from? It sounds Dutch. And we don't know. We don't know. So, I want to go on who you think you are. Have you heard of Google? No, there's not many de Moldenburgs. There's, like, literally none. It's, like, me, my sister and my dad. Online? Really? If you go on Facebook, it says no de Moldenburgs.

55:25Weird. Yeah. Would you go on it? I think you should go on it. What's your mum's maiden name? Hardman. Hardman. There's loads of Hardmans. That's like a porn name. No, it's not. There literally is a porn star called Dave Hardman. Okay. Cool. I'm glad you've brought that up in connection to my mum. I think a long time ago I was asked if I wanted to do Who Do You Think You Are? and I was probably in my phase of say no to everything. I've since come out of that phase. Yeah, clearly. you should you should definitely do it why i think it's a really cool one to do it can be cringe do you think that your family are you worried that your family's boring definitely not we may have native american ancestry possibly of the menominee tribe okay that could be cool although the gene test just seemed to disprove that but we think there may be a faulty lab oh yeah definitely faulty lab yeah jeans there's no way i'm not part native american but yeah i think it is an interesting conversation about like the online world versus the broadcast world and i would kind of like to do both i feel like that's when you've really like got a good thing going when you can do both you know johnny carson in america was doing the tonight show for i don't know 40 years or something and david letterman still doing his chat show and just to put this out there what would be wrong if 40 years from now you were celebrating the 50th anniversary of chicken shop date i don't want to do that why because i don't want to be 60 years old dating 20 year old rappers you don't you're not actually dating them it's a it's a format it's real louis i don't want to be doing chicken shop date forever i've got so many other ambitions which you haven't asked me about go on then what are your other ambitions well actually i don't What is the dream scenario then?

57:15Oh, actually, I specifically didn't even want to talk about this. And now I've brought it up. Go on. About what are you going to do next? Have you got anything? No. No, no, I do. I want to write scripts. I'm writing a script. Sitcom. More of like a comedy. Yeah, a dramedy. Like Succession or White Lotus. Not really like Succession, but I love Succession. More like something like Skins. now I've done some research and you said the same thing on a podcast interview in 2018 yeah I did that's like five years ago yeah how long does it take you to write I believe so um I've been writing it for a while I think it was on the Jamie Lang podcast oh yeah no but that's not the same idea which was the same podcast where he asked you at the end to say something inspirational oh my god what did I say and you couldn't think of anything that's quite my vibe yeah and it It wasn't fake awkward, it was properly awkward.

58:10What were you meant to say that's inspirational at the end of a podcast? Well, if you can ask me, I'll tell you something. Go on, say something inspirational then. You can do anything. What you think is your weakness may be your superpower. That's my go-to if I'm asked for... You've said that before, I've seen that. Yeah. Does everything you say something you've never said before? Yeah, actually, everything I say is an original thought. You'd have to start using other languages. No, the thing with writing is that it turns out that if you want to be a writer, you actually have to write, which is so...

58:41Boring. Boring. Especially if you've already said you can't read. No, I've been thinking about ideas for a long time, for years and years. But I essentially have another day job that I do. And I find writing really hard, but I have just submitted the first draft of my script. What's it called? I'm not telling you. I'm not telling you. Why? Because it's a really good title. I don't want you to steal it. Now you've made me feel bad that I've not, because I was thinking about this. I'm like, yeah, I want to be a writer, but I don't. But it's honestly because I've been really busy doing all this other stuff that you're interviewing me about.

59:14I've been busy building my media empire and trying to find my one true love. But I'm really happy that I have finished the first draft and then I'm about to start development of another script for a film. Ooh. So now I feel like I'm making... What does that mean, I'm about to start development? That's virtually meaningless. Shut up. So you're not developing it yet, but sometime in the future you'll start. This is why I don't even want to talk about it, because essentially what I'd love to... That's like I'm thinking of suing. I'd love to talk about it when I've actually got something to show for myself.

59:51But at the moment, it's on the back burner, you know, alongside all my other things and all my other commitments, like doing this bloody podcast. Endless podcast. Maybe I should stop saying yes to these podcasts. Well, just choose selectively. What does the future look like? What do you mean the future would look like for me? Media. Media in general. I think it's just on your phone. But I did read this really interesting article yesterday in the New Statesman about the correlation between mood behaviour within girls, young girls, and using their phones. You're comparing your insides with someone else's outsides.

1:00:25Yeah. That's what they say. I doubt myself. I lack confidence. I don't look right. and then you're looking at the most amazing photoshopped imagery. Yeah, unrealistic image. Unrealistic. And I felt like that really recently, actually, when I was in LA. I was in a really bad way with my mind, actually. And I also think it's because I wasn't exercising. What, recently? Yeah, really bad, actually. About yourself? Yeah, about myself. Just loads of negative thoughts about myself. And I think it's definitely because I was on my phone too much and maybe I was alone in LA and the pressure of my job feels like more intense.

1:01:01Does it? Yeah, like the pressure to... From where though? But that's all from you, isn't it? Yeah, it's from me. You can't be cancelled. No, I'm not scared of being cancelled. The pressure to like do a good job. That's what I feel like. You know when you've had some amazing moments, like for example, the whole thing that happened with the Jiggle Jiggle, my Andrew Garfield interviews, like so many great moments I've had. To me now it feels like a pressure to like keep getting to that level. and I don't know sometimes it can feel a bit much of course but then again I think it'll be fine because I think it always works out it does work out and you've just got to keep in touch with what you enjoy about the whole experience and I think the minute it feels like you're measuring yourself against you know in terms of the work you take on you're aiming to get somewhere as opposed to taking on projects that keep you excited then you lose yourself does that make sense yeah because then you're trying to chase something and you lose touch with your creative urge yeah and that's my that's how I look well that's why I'm always trying to be doing different things and also just to make sure that I don't really do anything unless I believe in the creative behind it like I'm not going to just do something for the sake of it or for the money for that matter either so in that sense I'm always kind of enjoying what I'm doing

1:02:26You're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast, only on Spotify.

1:02:38Hi, me again, Louis Theroux. Just to remind you, you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now back to my conversation with Amelia de Moldenburg. What were you in LA for? I met with loads of different production companies. I have a big audience out in America because of Chicken Shop Date and there's a big appetite there for me and I would love to spend more time in America. You mentioned the pressure that you put on yourself and that creating some anxiety. I've also read that you said that you've always been very ambitious. When you were very young, you wanted to be the editor of Vogue.

1:03:11Yeah, I did. And you were 10 when you wrote for Newsround online. You wrote an article about the film classification system. Yeah, thrilling. Where do you think your ambition and your drive comes from? I've just always wanted to impress people. I can't tell you where exactly it's come from, but I guess maybe originally it's been to impress my parents. And maybe everything comes from that. And I've never been that great at school. I was never the star student at school. I was always very average. And I think that I always thought that I needed to excel in different areas if I wanted to make something of myself.

1:03:48that it wasn't going to be through like math, science or English. It was going to be through doing something separate. Do you suffer from anxiety? Yeah, definitely. But I really do think that I have been getting better at it recently. And I also think that for a long time, I felt like I was climbing up trying to make something of myself or trying to show that I was talented or trying to make chicken shop date something. And now I really feel like it is at a level that I'm really happy with and that a lot of my ambitions I've fulfilled. so in that sense I do feel a lot more chilled. I was going to say you could fall under a bus tomorrow.

1:04:22All right okay hopefully not. Exactly God forbid like we pray that it doesn't happen yeah but if you did you could be squashed flat by the bus your head could blow up like a watermelon okay that's enough and you would have a body of work that you'd leave behind. Yeah that's a very reassuring thought that I would be to die with. Yeah that's what I will be thinking when my head is in termini-muses. And your dad would be in charge of cleaning it up. Cleaning it up. He would. That's awful. That's horrible. Yeah, that's horrible. But kind of cool. No. Okay. Yeah, and I'm really proud of all of that work.

1:04:56Especially with Chicken Shop Day, it's a really original format that isn't like anything else. And I really feel like it's one of a kind. I'm really proud of it. Any inspirational words of advice? No, now I'm worried about my lack of being able to give inspiration because you said that time when I was in the podcast, I couldn't think of any inspiration. You can use either one about take your disability and make it your superpower. I don't like saying inspirational things because I find them so cliche and cringe. And also I think it's so different. Or maybe you've got nothing to say. No, I also think that everyone is so different.

1:05:30So one person's word of inspiration. Use my line about your disability might be your superpower. Your disability. What you think is, sorry, weakness. Weakness. But what does that mean? It means that if you're slightly awkward and you find social situations unintentionally cringe, then do a whole format about that. Or if you can't cook, do a format about not being able to cook. That's what I have been doing. I actually have been using your advice, actually, throughout my whole career to use my weakness. Or you could say that the media landscape's changed so much. You, off the back of, we haven't said this, off the back of a magazine, like a community magazine, based out of, where was it?

1:06:08Royal Oak. Royal Oak, North West London, where you were? 17. You were 17, but what were you doing there? I started when I was 16. What were you doing there? We made a magazine. We could write about whatever we wanted. Paid for by the council. Yeah, and the Prince's Trust. And the Prince's Trust. And actually, I would love to start something like that again. I think that would be so... Like the magazine? Yeah, it was such an incredible place where so many young people were able to basically create their own portfolio of work and to start something of their own separate to their studies at school that maybe they weren't enjoying or weren't excelling at for whatever reason and actually like it really paved the way for so many people to actually get a start in their careers and I think that bringing back to the previous conversation we were saying about access and privilege like stuff like that like community-based magazines where young people can come and actually create work for themselves and build their own brand for example is a way to level the playing field.

1:07:05That's my word of inspiration. That's your inspiration, yeah. My inspiration is actually there should be more funding for young people, more youth services, because I really feel like that is the way to make a difference. Open the youth centres. Are they not open anymore? Since 2010, youth services have been cut drastically. So much so. Like the youth centre that I was at doesn't exist anymore. So many of them since 2010. That's why there's so many other issues within communities and societies is because I always always think everything comes back down to supporting young people there we go

1:07:50so I hope you enjoyed that conversation it was a pleasure speaking to Amelia and chewing the chicken, if I can put it that way, and learning about how much of her work has been created painstakingly over the years. I mean, I think I already knew that, but just to see it up close, the sense of her creating her own destiny out there with her team outside of the normal citadels of culture. And it's probably a bellwether for how things are going to change and continue to change. I owe her, I think I said this, but I'll say it again, I owe her an enormous debt of gratitude for bringing me to the attention of her audience and specifically Jiggle Jiggle, which has not hundreds of millions, but I think billions of streams and views.

1:08:31That's no exaggeration. And in a certain way, changing my life. For many people, maybe even until the day I croak, I'll be mainly known, you know, if I am known as the Jiggle Jiggle guy. And I think I'm fine with that. It definitely beats being known as the guy who failed to get to the truth about Jimmy Savile. Amelia did actually send me a question as to what would you have asked if you'd had a chance to ask me a question oh yes here we go do you find the podcast format lends itself to a more revealing interview and can you get more from someone over two hours in a recording studio than following them around with a camera for weeks kind of yes I used to say when I made documentaries that the truth comes out in the car meaning you can be on location and not be getting very much but if you do a long car journey with a contributor, with a person you're interviewing.

1:09:20Just the proximity and the sense that there's nothing else to distract you meant that you would be able to explore the deepest questions and the most interesting, most intimate kind of content. And that's sort of what a podcast is, really. It's a static car journey. You can follow someone for many days and not get a whole lot of anything because you're always in motion. You're not actually getting to answer the questions that you're really interested in. Well, that was the answer. This podcast was produced by Paul Kobrak and Maan Al-Yaziri. The production manager was Francesca Bassett and the executive producer is Aaron Fellows.

1:10:00The music in this series is by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production exclusively for Spotify. Louis, can we do a picture? Yeah. Can I do a TikTok with you? Yeah. but it's not a dance don't worry about it this episode is brought to you by Shopify when I was younger I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete I was a fast runner I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space as it happens neither of those dreams came true I had to settle for being an award winning documentary maker and international celebrity ah well we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen.

1:10:44This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website, to marketing, to product descriptions, to sales. The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash louis l-o-u-i-s that's shopify.com slash louis l-o-u-i-s