S2 EP1: Paul Mescal discusses the impact of Hollywood fame, dealing with paparazzi, and how acting is the love of his life

31:02Yeah, it's all sideways on. It's not blocked for a camera. I won't say it looked amazing because I didn't watch enough to... It was a school production. Yeah. We were children, so it probably wasn't amazing and you should refrain from judging it as a serious part of my career. That's fair. Formative, but very unserious. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, moving on. Thank you. So then that was that you got the bug. Got the bug. Continued playing sport. I had an amazing set of coaches that like I always feel like it's important to mention that like we probably assume that those two worlds don't connect like the world of sport and the world of theatre but my coaches were incredibly accommodating and understood that it was something that I wasn't sure that I wanted to like study it or do it but it was the only thing that kind of was able to compete with my desire to play sport and then at some points it just overtook.

32:04Did it overtake or was, because it's also been written that you had a fairly serious accident or there was an injury? No, it broke my jaw, yeah. During a match? I kind of played football on the sly. So when you go to drama school, the teachers all say, can't play any contact sport because your body's got to be all like flowy and soft bodies is the phrase. Is that the term? which I hated because I'm incredibly inflexible. So for first and second year, I was like playing football without letting anybody know. And then at the end of second year during the summer, I was like, I'm going to stop playing football at the end of this year, go into third year and not play for fear of getting injured.

32:45We should say you were studying at drama school in Dublin. In the Lear Academy in Dublin. And then going into final year, I had a match on the Saturday, starting rehearsals for the first play and final year on the Monday. And you're playing at quite a high level, the Gaelic football? So I played for my county, which is like, the way it works is you represent your club, and if you're selected from that, you represent your county, and I played for my county. Are you paid for that? No, no, it's an amateur sport. It's amateur. Oh, is it? So it's our national sport, but it's an amateur. Is it? It's fantastic.

33:14It's a lot like our Premier League. I can't watch it. I can't watch the Premier League. Really? I can't abide it. Because you're thinking about how much money they're earning? It's nothing to do with the money. I just don't like I feel like there's an like an ego involved that it's just so just there's something dirty about it to me and I'm going to get attacked but it's just how I I'm privileged to be here at the moment I got cancelled by the English football fans I don't think there's a huge amount of crossover between people there's no skill involved there's definite skill the thing there's no the thing that I like about the thing that I don't like about it is that it's like there's such talented individuals that have probably grew up with this innate desire to play football.

33:58And it starts with a passion. And I feel like it's just kind of corrupted and like twisted. Like it goes back to the kind of existing in your own bubble that I think that it's important for an actor to avoid. And I think the same thing is like footballers could like do with a healthy dose of like reality. You can't take yourself that seriously. Well, you know you're an actor, right? I know. but I don't I don't think that I take myself that seriously not you but as a profession absolutely you act as going like it's ridiculous when I go out there it's like going to war oh but that's a ridiculous and every day my my I don't just expose my body I expose my soul yeah that's a classic yeah I love that wait till if we ever do this in 10 years time that's exactly what I'm gonna do yeah man it's just if I can reach you you'll be in a mansion I'll be in a mansion performing Reiki wouldn't that be great on your own penis

34:54I don't even know what that really means I don't know if you can do that I hope that you can't do that but I think I get it the thing is at the risk of stating the obvious many footballers come from extremely poor backgrounds it's more so to do with the industry of football that I can't abide it's like all of these individuals are coming from a lower socioeconomic background that suddenly are being told to like batter their bodies and like forego kind of brain damage in an attempt to kind of climb the social ladder. It's like there's something innately, I think, evil about the... It's actually my issue is I just don't really enjoy watching soccer, but I don't like the industry in which it's...

35:36And I'm not a huge fan of like the Hollywood industry either. I don't think they're particularly healthy and they're innately capitalistic. Well, look, I want to talk about... I know we're on our way to, we're in this massive detour without having reached the moment of your injury, which we're going to get to. But on the subject of Hollywood, I'm speaking to you in depth for the first time. What I get from you is like sensitivity, sort of a sense of thoughtfulness and the fact that you don't want to be swamped in kind of bullshit about this and that, right? And nevertheless, Hollywood, fairly or unfairly, is characterized as being sort of the world capital of...

36:17Absolutely. whatever that is. So I just wonder, what's been your exposure to Hollywood and that side of the business? I lived in LA for a second, but I didn't. How long? Probably about four or five months. Okay. And then... Whereabouts? Like out by Highland Park. Highland Park. Pasadena. Pasadena. Very far from. Right, Pasadena is barely LA. It's not, no, very much like on the outskirts. So I've actually spent very little time in West Hollywood, which I have friends there and enjoy being there, but I don't. The least amount of time that I can spend there, the better for my soul. Talk more about that.

36:58I feel like it's an unfamiliar place to me. It's not a place that I know. I don't know what the rules are. The rules are you're successful and everything else flows from that. Flows from that. Yeah. Yeah, but it's to do with... It's the most hierarchical place on earth. But it's also a place that like, as you said, it's paradoxical. It's actually, there's a wealth of creativity that exists there. But the foundations of the city feel like paper thin. And I'm always curious. I think you have to be born and raised there to understand your way of navigating it. And that's not to say like, I'm not naive enough to assume that like, I'm going to be able to like, wash my hands of that place.

37:41It's not going to work like that. but if I'm, say, doing a press trip there, I will try and condense it to the least amount of time possible. I'd rather get in and out of there in three days and fly and do the long-haul flight than have the comfort of being there. So when I try to imagine what you... When you had a huge hit with After Sun and Normal People and you're suddenly the hottest ticket of young actors, one of them tipped for huge stardom, right? Which you still are, by the way, but we're going back before that yeah we're going back three years when it first happened because the moment when it first happened it's like okay we've got a new guy well I missed I missed all of the Hollywood journey with that because it was COVID we did that saved me a little bit right because I experienced the kind of ascent with stabilisers on it was like I can't leave the house you do a day of interviews and then you close your laptop and you're in your living room where were you living at the time?

38:37I was in Clapton at the time Hackney area Hackney area quite hipster I mean does that surprise you and I also fell out of love with London immediately at that time at that time I was like this is why because it was Covid all my the friends that I'd moved over with were also Irish and they as I was moving over were like I'm not doing Covid here I'm moving back and I didn't want to like burden my family with taking over the living room all day talking about myself and acting for 12 hours and during Covid the house just wasn't big enough to like absorb that and then that's when the whole public facing paparazzi finding out where you live, which I still don't know how they figure that out.

39:17They found out where you lived, did they? Yeah. Little bastards. How soon after normal people dropped? Days. Days. So they had an inside man, maybe. Yeah, and when I find that person, that was a gesture for this. The thing is, you just did the noise and you didn't do the gesture. Yeah, I just did the noise because I was doing it for the folks of Podcastland. Yeah. So you come out the door and you see a little guy with a... See a little guy. Hiding in the bushes. Like, I can tell you, like... You felt Fury. Oh. Or he was called Fury. Both. No, no. In A's. Fury and everybody's like, don't do anything.

39:56But there's something... Seriously. I just want to, like... Sean Penn on his ass. Yeah. Or do you remember the, like, famous... Is it the video of, like, Woody Harrelson coming out of LAX when he sees the person with the... And he just goes... Fires the camera off the guy. I think that's fantastic. But it gets you a bad reputation, believe it or not. And I understand that. I understand that, but the fantasy is real. So what did you do? I stayed inside more. Really? There's the trick of the trade that I was told was wear the same clothes twice so that the photograph is worth less. Because what you can do, I think, is retain a publicist, take the photos on your own time, and sell them.

40:39you seem like that kind of person imagine and I'm convinced that I thought that like I think there's people out there that call the paparazzi on themselves you don't think they definitely do yeah who does that do you think? Cillian Murphy exactly it was exactly yeah no but that was so that was that was London time and then went away and filmed for a year basically and made some work and then what were you filming then? I went and filmed The Lost Daughter and Carmen and God's Creatures. Yes. And then I filmed after so. And so that was like 2020 into 2021. And then I spent time in LA, but that was before anything had come out.

41:22So I wasn't, I didn't move to LA with a kind of like, I'm going to go over here and press. I've only had one ever work meeting in LA and it was for Gladiator. Really? Yeah. What I'm getting is that that moment, I know it's three years ago, we're going to move on. But that moment when you realize, oh, shit, this is not just a hit. It's a mega hit. And I am the biggest thing that ever hit Hollywood. Right? No, that's what was going on in my brain. And you must have been, you know, in certain respects, exciting. As you said, like, now I've got at least a few years grace in which I could do a bunch of flops.

41:58Right? Yeah, exactly. And then you're thinking, that's breathing space. Are you also thinking, I mean, it must be, is it terrifying as well? and also was there not a moment where your team they're saying lockdown's over now Paul you need to come out and do some meetings I want you to press the flesh meet all these people no I'm not good in a general meeting really I know that about myself like I'm not if there's nothing to talk about do actors not do that anyway or do they it's just like it's a personality thing some people are good at general meetings I know that I'm much better in a meeting if there's a script to read I truly don't have the confidence to go in there and feel like I can wow somebody with just a chat over coffee you can wow someone I can't you can wow them with your eyes closed it just kind of makes my back go up a little bit I think I'd love to try and wow people with like work or or my friend like in that capacity or your body my body that's the that's the main aim speaking of Hollywood BS did you enjoy the Oscars?

43:00I would have thought that was almost like the epicentre of all of it but that is the but it's to do with work like the fact that I was nominated for an Oscar for a film that typically should never have been in that conversation is something that I have a tremendous amount of pride for. Your nomination was for Best Leading Man and is that the name? Best Leading Actor. Best Male Actor. Best Lead Performance. You were the one nominated and you lost to Brendan Fraser. I did. That fucker. But just getting in a fat suit. That's not acting. Don't you go down that road with me. Don't you start. I'm just saying what we're both thinking.

43:44Nope. That was a great time though. Like getting to meet, no, seriously, getting to like go from like event to event with like Colin Farrell and Bill Nighy. Is that who you were hanging with? Yeah, predominantly. And kind of the Banshees of Inishir and crew. Right. Yeah. The Irish like to just stick together. Yeah. Martin McDonagh. Yeah. Was he there? Yeah, he's a friend of mine. He's an immense human being. Very talented. Very, very talented, yeah. Were you disappointed to... You don't lose, I wanted to say that. No. To lose the Oscar because you lost it. I did. I lost it. And there's no prize for second place.

44:21Exactly. We know that. No, I mean... Like they say, the nomination is the victory, but it definitely was the victory at that point. I think it can be a bit of a poison chalice if you're ever wearing it and you're very like a young actress like how do you follow that up I think that's the difficult thing with winning in general it's like you're put on this pedestal and I don't know it just definitely was a sea change moment for me I get that reminds me of when I won my first BAFTA how many BAFTAs have you won? Only three only three? Stop they're TV BAFTAs they're not the real thing how dare you I want a TV bath tonight yeah like I said

45:30Hi, I'm Louis Theroux and you're listening to the Louis Theroux podcast. And now, back to my conversation with Paul Mescal. Just kidding, Paul Mescal.

45:45So we were on a long detour and then we were going to talk about your injury. Yes. So, on the Saturday before starting on the Monday, this is my final game. We were playing in the club championship at this point. playing against a team called Moorfield in a county quarterfinal. I went out to reach for a ball out in front of me and got clobbered across this side and broke my jaw. Played on because the physio said that it's... I actually can't remember. What were you thinking when I just said that? About the person's name.

46:25oh yeah so did they stretch you off no so basically the physio came on and was like you're alright you played on why didn't you come off because if somebody tells you it's okay you don't want to believe that you have a broken jaw I was relieved I was like I'm in a bit of bother here but the thing I'm grateful for is that I didn't get another slap on it because when I went to get x-ray obviously it was broken and the doctor was like if you'd got another slap on it would have shattered. Then I went into rehearsals on the Monday and had to... Seriously? Literally rehearsed with my teeth. I wasn't wired shut, but I couldn't obviously open my mouth.

47:04But that was the learning. That was like, okay, these two things that I love don't coexist. Like the world of sport and the world of acting don't live side by side. Unfortunately. So we should... Well, we should talk for a minute about all of us strangers, shouldn't we? although it's the kind of film where you can't talk about it that much because it would spoil it and i think part of what felt special when i was watching it was not quite knowing where it was going or even what genre it was in but it's a love story it's a it's a love story both a familial love story and a romantic love story um and i think it's fair to say the central idea in the film is that Adam, Andrew Scott's character, is in the process of being able to revisit his parents who died when he was 12 in a car crash.

47:50I wouldn't even say that. Well, no, because everybody in the trailer can see the Claire Foy and Jamie Bell are in it, Louis, so it's obvious. How many times have you gone in to see a film and you haven't seen the trailer? Quite a lot. Really? Yeah, I think so. I love trailers. First of all, so many films nowadays you watch at home on some platform or other. so the idea of I might go to the cinema well I'm just going to stick to my guns on this I wouldn't even have said that because I was thinking when I was watching who are they the first time he meets his see I'm doing it now his dad I'm going to say it because you've spoiled it already I was like oh is he picking a guy up yeah it's wonderful it's so exciting and then you're like what is this what's happening and then you're trying to figure everything out don't say anymore what were you going to say about it I just want people to see it in the theatre.

48:42I think it's important that it's so easy to wait for things to come onto a streaming platform. And I'm really not that guy. It's like, you have to. But I think with this, I'd urge people to go into a room because I think my experience of seeing people watch it in the theatre, it can be and has been a very cathartic experience for people seeing it. I think it's a film that examines the idea of love through two very tortured souls that I think the message of the film is quite hopeful that if these two people are capable of giving the kind of amazing gift that love is to each other, then I think it's worth watching.

49:20I feel like you're always asked about sex scenes. Yeah, and I've talked about it so much. It is a bit boring. I like talking about it, but everybody's got to have read about it or considered it. In this quote, because normal people had a lot of sex scenes that were very powerfully done. And this has a few sex scenes that are really well done. Between you and Andrew Scott. Yeah. I think they're important. I think, I was talking to somebody in an interview yesterday where Gen Z people were, they did a survey where they were asked about sex in media and sex in films and they were much more inclined to want to see platonic friendship on screens, which I think is an interesting comment.

50:01But, and I don't necessarily agree with that. I think platonic friendship is absolutely important, but I think sex in life and in film is one of the great human experiences. And when it's done correctly, as I think it's done in both normal people and all of us strangers, it can really give you an insight into human behaviour that we see all the time in kind of like standardised dialogue scenes. And I think in all of the strangers in particular, it gives us a real insight into how repressed Adam has become and how out of touch with his own sexuality he has become. Is that the Andrew Scott? Andrew Scott's character, yeah.

50:36He struggles through it. Yeah, he hasn't been having sex for a while. No, yeah. We were talking about you being in the public eye and not wanting to become jaded or feel inhibited. Nevertheless, I think you're quite careful about what you put out there regarding your private life. Yeah. But I'm just curious about having said that you want to be open, And what is informing the decision to be more private on that stuff? Because some things have to stay, belong to you. And that will forever belong to me. And I just won't, simply just won't talk about it. Because it's important. Privacy is kind of the only thing that you can retain.

51:21It's the only thing that you have control over. Because people can say whatever they want. There's a contradiction there, though. Of course. Because actually, if you say, why should I be embarrassed about being drunk? It's not embarrassment. It's definitely not embarrassment. I don't mean about this. Well, you say what you were going to say. No, it's just that. There's certain things that are no-gos for me. But also, I'm entitled to decide what I want to share. That's something I've learned. I can make the rules up for me. And they can change. I could get to the point where I'm like, actually, I'm sick of people in general.

51:51And I will go more kind of glass casey. so I guess that's what I was you know having said that you've you want to be obviously real and you're out there you have a few drinks in the pub they get some pictures of you like there's no shame attached to that no but it's altogether likely though not nice that you might be in the pub having a few drinks with someone that's yeah very dear to you and that um what that then looks like but you sort of answered that like basically there may come a time I'm sure there have been times when you've had to retreat or put barriers up yeah but those rules aren't necessarily fixed like i'd like to jump into something that's like heavier but like sometimes it's dictated to about who the if the subject is just me i find it easier to be open but if there's other people involved i feel an obligation to protect both me and other people but also with my mom for example being sick me going through cancer yeah she's got multiple myeloma which is a form of blood cancer.

52:51So the rules with what I feel comfortable talking about and sharing are dependent on the people that I love who are involved, you know? Yeah.

53:31Hi, me again, Louis Theroux. Just to remind you, you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now, back to my conversation with Paul Meskell.

53:44We've got 12 more minutes. What do you want to talk about? What about this Richard Linklater film you're in? Yeah. That's also one that like, not to be obtuse, but it's like one that will benefit from the least... Is that another one we don't want to talk about? It is kind of one that we don't want to talk about because I think the benefit of that is, or the kind of artistic endeavour of that is that it spans 20 years and essentially I'm at the infancy of that project. But people who don't know, Richard Linklater, a legendary American director who made his first... Have you seen his first film, Slacker?

54:17Oh, it's amazing. Which for me was a big film because it was that, it was 1991 or two and it defined an era. I feel like he has his finger on the pulse of the genre of the film that he's making in a way that I think is, I know it sounds like a basic thing, but it's a really difficult thing for directors. I've seen it many times, but on the plane on the way back from LA, I watched Before Sunrise again. Which is phenomenal and part of a trilogy. Part of a trilogy. All with Ethan Hawke and... and Julie Delpy Julie Delpy the last one is After Midnight which might have been my favourite one yeah well that argument scene is one of the greatest argument scenes put to film incredible and also Dazed and Confused which was a big film at the time Boyhood and Boyhood which is most relevant that's the most relevant in terms of the style it was filmed over 12 years I think yeah like once a year they'd get together so you have the real ageing process of all the actors and the thing with Merrily that is like just common knowledge is that it is film adaptation of the Stephen Sondheim musical that is pre-existing material.

55:22Yes, which itself was based on a play written in the 20s. Yeah. And I don't know about the play, but the musical's sort of told in reverse. It serves as a warning to the kind of world of Hollywood that we were talking about. It starts with a kind of pure friendship of artistic endeavour and ends with, I think, a warning of how success can be corrupting if you don't. But isn't it the other way around? Doesn't it start with he's successful as an older man? But successful and unhappy. Yeah. And then it's told in reverse, so he becomes more happy as he gets younger and less successful. Is that about right?

55:59I think it's a warning. That's a great segue into you in the future as super successful, like a less happy, less angry Russell Crowe, if you like. Potentially. looking back at you now look at you all how depressing would that be though I'm actually afraid of that go on about like being corrupted by it all because nobody has any intention of becoming angry and jaded I don't think and imprisoned in the gold cage is that the right yeah I think like actors generally speaking can be like incredibly painful people but they actually are like I love actors I think that they are like have this capacity like this childlike imagination that i think is incredibly intoxicating and i i do want to express that like it is my favorite thing in the world is the job that i get to do i adore it which part the acting acting i love it i just find it so addictive it is like the like truly the great love of my life it's obviously family and like relationships and friends like but it's the thing that competes with everything even time with family it's like i can fold into that so easily and i just adore it what do you love about it so much the fact that it never you're never going to reach a point it's endless it's like the bar to which you believe is the top the minute you get near it just starts flying away and just the the feeling of like when you're shooting a scene and it's written beautifully and you're working with great actors and the director is fantastic it feels like play you feel like a child and you're getting to express these kind of like intense emotional experiences but you're in a safe place to do it i hopefully don't have to really go to those places in my real life all that much and i think that acting has a therapeutic impact as a result i do things that one person goes through in their life maybe once or twice i might have to do two or three times a year depending on the projects that i select and I think that adds up you know but aren't you always inside there somewhere pulling the levers of course and sort of pretending like I don't believe in that school of acting that is about like you lose yourself if you're doing your job naturally but it can't be a pursuit of pain because that's it's innately self-serving it's about your experience it's about I'm going to torture myself so much and bring this raw kind of intensity to the screen and i don't a i don't think it's sustainable b i don't think it's all that interesting but i think the thing that i enjoy about it is the fact that if you're playing you're still feeling all of those things but it's more sustainable you can have feeling the emotions yeah do you lose yourself so yeah sometimes like in and that's good i love it because you kind of like you're still conscious like I remember most of it and then other times I'm like you see the finished film and you're like I have no recollection of I said it to Andrew in this film I was like I have no memory of looking at you like that do you know and that's the satisfying thing I'm like whoa I remember the scene I remember saying I remember feeling certain things but when you see something that looks like an accurate representation of life or the human condition.

59:27Like when I was like, we look like we're in love. It's such a privilege to get to play that. Like love is the, I think the greatest feeling that any human ever, ever gets to experience. And to get to play that, like I'll consciously have to be pulled away from that in my career. I know because I love it. I love that theme. I love it in life. I love being in that territory. Why will you have to be pulled away from it? So people don't get bored of me. Right. You mean that theme of deep love, deep love, So that you have a more complete kind of palette of doing different things. Yeah, and I think acting is one of those disciplines that, say if you're like a painter or you're a poet, you can have a distinct style.

1:00:06Like if you're like Monet or you're Van Gogh, you have a distinct calling card or a signature style. And I kind of wish audiences were more tolerant towards letting an actor exhaust the kind of creative impulse that they have rather than go like, oh, they've done two. It's such a basic response. It's like, you've made two films that have made me cry. Please, God, let Paul be happy in something. It's like, I'm making these choices consciously because that's where I feel like I'm out of my life and they're the things that I want to express. And I think there's a parasocial element to it from an audience that doesn't exist in the art world or the world of literature.

1:00:47What do you mean, what is that parasocial? An audience feels like they know the characters that I play, they innately tie to me. Right. And they're like, please, God, let Paul be happy. I'm like, I'm fine. So when you, your thing was like, so you look ahead with fear, the idea of being 53 years old, let's say. That's the beginning of that fear for me. And then it's like, what am I going to do when my body stops working? What am I going to do if my memory goes and I can't remember lines? so you're not worried about becoming too successful the statistical chances of that happening are kind of like low too successful being like it's incapacitating well like who's too successful in your mind well you were the one who said you were worrying about something and maybe or forgive me if i'm mischaracterizing that but i think it's the sense that if you look forward your world is going to be so strange yeah it's all but it's already Pretty strange.

1:01:41Do you not think? Or like strange from the outside. I guess, but you're going to be worth tens of millions of... You know what I mean? If you're not already, are you already? I can tell you now I'm not worth that. But you will be. But that is all... Who can we compare? Who's the trajectory that you look at and you think that'll do? It's not to do with that. It's not the trajectory that I'm aiming for. It's like quality of work. It's like somebody like... But those two things oftentimes go hand in hand. It's like, look at somebody like Cillian Murphy. He's done it so elegantly. He has a distinct sense of self.

1:02:18His work is phenomenal. And I imagine he's doing all right. You're going to be way bigger. I disagree strongly. Take that bit out.

1:02:31Are you happy now?

1:02:35Yeah. I'm getting there. No, I'm fine. No, come on. I'm getting there. I'm like getting there. What's the problem? Just like a lot has changed. Really? Yeah. Lots going on. Lots going on. But also, I'm really happy with where my career is at at the moment. But I do need to work towards a greater balance in my life so that I can... Like there's only so many times you can go to the well creatively if you're not dipping back into real life. And I haven't struck that balance now for... What is real life for you? Real life, like not on set. I can't believe we got with like two minutes to go. We got to the fact that you're not that...

1:03:16Well, happy. I actually am, all right. But like, I don't think I generally have a happy disposition. Do you know? It's like, I wouldn't say that... Can I... I feel like... Can I say anything you want? I don't know if you have the happiest disposition. Me? Yeah. You barely know me. I know but that's why I'm going off Would you define yourself as a happy person I think that's what I'm getting at with that I'm fine That's what I mean I mean that in essence It's not a loaded thing like I'm not doing well I'm not doing great but I'm not doing bad I'm fine Do you still see a therapist? Yeah How often?

1:03:53I just lied about that actually You don't see one? I've stopped seeing her for a little while How many lies have you told in this interview? I feel like that's indicative that I haven't told a lot I don't So I am going to go back and find a new therapist. Yeah. We wrapped it up. That was it. That was our wrap up. We wrapped. Great. Thanks, bud. Oh my God. That was great. I really enjoyed that. Did you? I'm glad to hear that. No, I really did. I've never talked for that length of time. Thank you, man. Ever in my life. Well. Thanks, bud. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. I haven't told my mum I'm doing it, so she's going to lose.

1:04:51hi i'm back so i think you'll agree that was a great chat and um and in in a way the fact that at the end, we sort of seem to reach this next level is maybe all to the good because I actually feel like Paul, well, I'm going to blow my own trumpet and say, I think he enjoyed the chat. And that the fact that it was mainly in a major key, in a lighter mode was part of what made it enjoyable. And that if Paul is, you know, in any way, if there are things he's dealing with, How could you not be, you know, in a sense, you know, with everything that he's got on his mind, like with the level of success he's achieved, the level of scrutiny he's having to experience.

1:05:37And in a way, to an extent, like you can, by participating in a conversation about that too much, by revealing too much about what's on your mind and on your heart, you can get into a feedback loop. You know, who needs clickbait headlines saying, Paul Mescar, my private agony, you know? Does that make sense? In other words, I feel as though he said exactly what he wanted to say. And he's figuring out to some extent as he goes, what the boundaries are and how much he wants to put out there. And he's learned from bitter experience that there are literally, at times, people in the bushes taking pictures and intruding on his privacy.

1:06:24And that, you know, I think he talked about his fury. I actually watched some things that didn't come up in the chat. Obviously, After Sun, but also God's Creatures, which was also really good. and the incredible, possibly his finest work, Sausage Advert. It was funny listening to it back. I think I was kind of, it was kind of embarrassing. And once or twice, I think I thought it was being pretty funny. And then listening to it back, I was aware that I was close to the line. With the Brendan Fraser joke, what did I call him? I think I said that fucker, he got an Oscar just for wearing a fat suit.

1:07:08That was obviously, you know, I didn't love The Whale, the movie, but I did think he was really good in it. So, Brendan, if you're listening, you know, it was a joke. When I called you a fucker, I clearly didn't, I didn't mean it. I know you've got a good sense of humor and I loved Journey to the Center of the Earth. It's family viewing of the highest caliber. What was he? Oh, and making fun of or appearing to, because I don't think I was making fun of it, but running the risk of seeming to make fun of um paul's sort of transformational kind of eye-opening starring role in the phantom of the opera which clearly meant so much to him it was a change in his destiny it was the moment the stars aligned and then you watch it on youtube and and obviously it's not you know a professional production and i mentioned that and then it looked like i was anyway i think i didn't mean to be i you know listening back it was it felt like oh am i i'm over explaining it.

1:08:08It was fine. Also, at the risk of stating the obvious, I don't actually think Cillian Murphy's the kind of person who calls the paparazzi so they get pictures of him. In fact, that's the source of the humor in the joke is that he doesn't seem like that kind of person. What the future holds, we don't know whether it will involve Paul performing Reiki on his own penis or what that even means. It's too early to tell. I tried performing Reiki on my penis last night and it wasn't as much fun as you might think. I actually didn't feel anything.

1:08:47Anyway, what a lovely man and I hope our paths cross again if I'm up Clapton Way or wherever, just in the A-list celebrity circus that we inhabit. Just a reminder that you can listen to these episodes weekly wherever you get your podcasts. So we're not just on Spotify anymore. Isn't that exciting? I think that's it. Oh, yes. Credits. Produced by Millie Chu. The assistant producer was Man Al-Yaziri. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. And the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.