S2 EP3: PinkPantheress discusses stage fright, being ‘outed’ by the tabloids, and her icks

0:02Hello, Louis Theroux here. Welcome to my Spotify podcast called The Adam Buxton Podcast.

0:30who goes by Pink Pantheress, who has another name, the one she was given at birth, which I'm not going to reveal, because that's part of her mystique. She is 22 years old, not just a singer as such, but also a viral hit maker. And if you're at all online, even if you don't know who she is, you've probably heard her songs. And I hope that becomes clearer in the conversation because her singing style is very distinctive. copyright issues prevent me from singing part of her song now. Poise-a-lia. Can I say that? That's fine. Poise-a-lia. That was too much. Anyway, she shot to fame in less than a year, around the time of COVID and lockdown, writing these tiny little songs, these fragments that seemed almost perfectly designed for TikTok in the short attention span.

1:22in addition though there's anxiety-based lyrics there's a depth to the emotional vibe of the songs and so she's very much tapped into the generational mood with her lyrics and voice and samples some statistics as of 20th of october 2023 on spotify alone 2.3 billion streams that's 55 million streams per track sometimes i think when you give spotify or streaming data. It just sounds like billions and billions, billions and billions. Anyway, it's a lot. By any metric, you know, they are extraordinarily big numbers. Numbles, which is a tech term that we use in the tech industry. A numble, it's a lot like a number, but it's not exactly the same.

2:09I haven't looked at my numbers. I'm afraid to. She's previously been very private, which is part of what makes this interview pretty special. It was recorded in person in London in the Spotify HQ. She arrived with her signature handbag under her arm and the first few minutes you can feel the atmosphere is a little bit awkward. There was a faintly tense, tenses maybe overstayed, but definitely there wasn't much eye contact. And I was thinking, this might be a difficult interview, which I love. And then it all kind of just got going and and felt like a terrific kind of free-flowing conversation.

2:50But maybe I'm spoiling the journey if I tell you too much. Warnings, strong language, adult themes, and a high-pitched chipmunk-like voice. That's mine, not Pink's. All that and much, much more coming up.

3:25Hello. Nice to meet you. How do you do? Nice to meet you. How's it going? Real good, thanks. Take a seat. Oh, OK. OK. Sorry about the delay. Arnold Schwarzenegger was in here. Yeah, I heard. On another podcast. Yep. Thought it was this one. Wasn't mine. Next time. Another time. How are you doing? Good, thank you. How are you? I'm fine. Is your name Lewis? Some people say Lewis. I go by Louis. Louis, yeah, okay. The French spelling. Yes. And the French pronunciation. Okay. I appreciate you coming by. I think you've been quite busy, haven't you? Well, I've just announced my album, so I'm just doing stuff for that, yeah.

4:05You've just announced your album. Do you want to come in, guys? Louis, can you just talk closer to the mic? Closer to the mic. Guys, you should just, you know what, if you want to say anything, pop in, because I'm not going to look at my phone and the WhatsApps, I don't think. They're like, oh, if you need anything, we'll pop it on a WhatsApp. Yeah, no. It's just, I want to stay stuck. Do IRL. I want to just stay in the room. Yeah, I get that. I think you're a bit like me. You don't like to be over-attached to the phone. No, not really. No, I just do my bag. You try and stay in real life. In real life, yes, I do.

4:36What's your attitude to social media generally? It's a necessity for me, but if I had it my way, I wouldn't be on it. At all? No, I would be on it like maybe, I'm only on it as much as I really want to. Sometimes for this period, because of the album, I've had to go on it a bit more. Yeah. And it does scare me. Like, I'm not going to lie. Like, I can't, I have to get someone else to post my stuff. Why? I just have bad anxiety surrounding posting stuff. Because of what you might come back? No, just because I just don't know what it, I genuinely don't know. I just have an issue pressing the button that says post.

5:13Really? Which is ironic in a way because you blew up on TikTok. Yes. And that's practically... All about posting. Yeah. See, that for me was like, you're going to laugh, but that was survival instincts. That was like, I need to make a career out of music. So I did what I had to do. I still do it. I just have to get someone else to post the video these days. That's the difference. Do you get anxiety generally? Surrounding very specific and niche things. Do you? Um, yes. Okay. You just turned the tables on me. I wasn't expecting that. Oh, no, I just wondered this because I just, um, I feel like when you ask people that question, they always say yes.

5:56But when I ask them about what, they kind of don't know what to say. I'm not going to ask you about what. Feel free. Okay, about what then? Just probably the most typical things, which is sometimes social engagements. Like, I have that thing of like, if you're going to a party, you're invited to a party and before going, You know you're going to go, but a little part of you is thinking, I really don't want to go. Because you don't know how the night's going to go. I don't know if it's even that rational. I think it's just some sense of being required to summon some sort of resources, whether it's conversation, self-presentation, and then you go and it usually goes fine.

6:34But I sometimes drink my way through it. But do people expect you to be a good talker because of your job? I would say they probably do, yeah. yeah people expect me to be and do you think you are a good talker i think i can be but i think that people are either happily surprised or they're a bit like oh she's a bit weird do you think so what makes you think i don't know but because i'll talk to someone and i'll think i sound very normal and everything and then people will tell me afterwards that i seemed uncomfortable or awkward but i don't really recognize at the time you don't feel awkward i don't really because i'm not because this is just how i when it comes to new people this is just how i talk or act but some people just think i'm uncomfortable but i actually don't know but this is how it's been from since school time so so we started by saying i was saying talk well actually before that was gonna say you're how busy are you you said you got your album uh heaven knows yes about to drop yep which is technically your first album but actually you released a mixtape called to hell with it in which was sort of like an album I mean I don't know why they didn't call it an album well I chose to call it a mixtape because an album was actually quite a full name right yeah well I just thought to myself it was an 18 minute long mixtape yeah with 10 tracks 10 tracks so I just thought no there's no way this can be an album it's so short which is fair enough how long is the album?

8:00I actually don't know I think it's about half an hour yeah I think it's half an hour actually I was going to say that too I think it's half an hour And you're going on tour in February Yeah And you're coming off three years of meteoric ascent Yeah Right, would you agree with that? I don't know about meteoric How would you call it? Well, I don't know I think when I see someone have a meteoric ascent It's way more obvious that it's a meteoric ascent I think mine has been another sort of ascent Maybe like a very good hiker ascent Right. Not meteoric. I wanted it to be at this pace. Maybe like a rambler climbing a Munro in Scotland.

8:44Yes. And steadily hiking up the terrain. And I think that's maybe a more apt metaphor because it describes the effort involved, which I'm sure has been considerable. That being said, though, it's been a steady and sort of positive, I don't want to say relentless, it sounds a bit weird, but it's been a steady, forward-focused ascent. and it started in 2021. Well, late 2020, wasn't it? Isn't that when the one that's like, the Michael Jackson sample one came out? You're good researchers, yeah, I was. Researchers? What are you talking about? I researched that, I think. You think I didn't do any research?

9:22No, I think you're equally as busy as I am, so I don't know. But either way, if it was you or your team, I'm really amazed that you know that. It was, it was on Christmas Day. Christmas Day, that's what my researcher told me. Great. I did, I've done research as well. Come clean. But it was never actually released because the Michael Jackson estate didn't clear the sample. And that's where I can't mention any more. Wow, that got tense fast. That's where I can't mention any more. And I'm glad you said that, not me. I can't mention them. It's fine. We can just ramble on. I love a pregnant pause. Yes.

10:04But then you had two tracks that went mega viral Yes Pain and Break It Off Break It Off That's not the one I was thinking of What's the stalker-ish one? Just for me Just for me Was Break It Off more viral then? I actually I'm going to have to make a stab and guess That Just For Me Went more viral But it is not as revered as Break It Off Right Yes that's my guess I don't know anything about numbers and I don't like being told so if you know anything then don't tell me about your numbers no don't tell me don't tell me don't tell me I'm not going to tell you but I know everything about your numbers yeah but I can't no but no don't because that is where I've realised every person that I know as soon as they find out every bit of metadata about anything they have that's when it becomes obsessive you are concerned that you would become obsessive about the numbers well yeah I think just anyone okay so it's like it's like knowing how much is in your bank account and then being nervous about spending it's like you know what I mean it's like I remember when I first started off as a musician I was obsessed with everything I was like every bit of metadata I could know I needed to know and then I got obsessive over it and so I'm just because I know my habits I just know that if I know now it'll be the same thing what do you mean by metadata so like stuff like how many followers do I have or how many people are looking at my posts so that's what really freaks me out how many people are able to look at my posts like which platform any platform and so for example if a video of me goes viral in any sort of way I freak out because I'm like oh and I need to know what everyone's saying and stuff because I'm just obsessed over it so I just that's why I stay off of online really yes that's the sound of sorry pink's nails yeah in case you're wondering it is a strange thing that in this day and age you can have a metric of success in inverted commas that's scientific and calibrated down to the absolute tiniest figure right yeah and actually what do you do with that because you didn't create the music thinking well maybe you did but you want some sort of success but you didn't create it knowing that information you know and you created it out of an instinct for what would connect with people right Yeah, well, I mean, obviously I'm only making music because I actually just enjoy making it.

12:29And I think it's because I enjoy making it. And it's also because I actually just enjoy experimenting and seeing what people will like. Just like I like making music that I feel like people have to think about. Like the Stalker-ish song, it's like I wrote it, but I was like, will people catch on to what I'm actually singing about? Or will the song go viral and people think that the song's like a cute song and actually it's not, you know? Yeah, that's the one that was sampled by Central Sea. Yes, exactly. So this thing about making people think, there was a quote that I liked, which was from an article in the New York Times, where they said, the key juxtaposition in her music is how the lightly detached sweetness in her tone masks the sweaty anxiety of her words.

13:14Sweaty? Oh, sweaty. Yeah, sure. Does that resonate with you? Anxiety in my words. Well, funnily enough, we started by talking about anxiety. Okay, sure. And there's darkness in the lyrics. The lyrics are often about anxiety to do with, is someone going to call? Do I look good enough for you? Are you thinking about me? It's all in a monologue, but sung in quite a sing-song girly voice. I'm sure lots of adjectives have been used to describe your very distinctive vocal timbre. Is there an adjective you prefer? Chipmunk version? I mean, I don't know. I think it depends. And sometimes when I listen to it, actually, and I'm not trying to be self-deprecating.

13:55I don't want that to become my brand because I am so confident in many ways. But sometimes when I listen to it, there's quite an annoying twang to it now because it is so high. And because my hearing isn't as good as it used to be, I feel like now it hits certain frequencies, which I don't really like anymore. But I still love my voice. I think it's nice and unique. Angelic and slinky. Maybe. Did you come up with that? That was when it came top of the Sound of 2022 BBC poll. It described your voice as... Angelica and Slinky. Angelica and Slinky, yeah. Who wouldn't want to be told that? It's nice.

14:30You mentioned your hearing going? Yes. You've lost 80 % of the hearing in one of your ears, in your right ear. How come? Because of the microphone. Going too near to a speaker. Really? And it causes a horrible, like... The feedback. Feedback, yeah. And it was so loud it literally... it so no damage your hearing decreased yeah so at first it was just a really annoying ringing and i thought it was going to be fine but it happened on the day and ever since that day even on the day it happened i was trying to find i i got like some weird ear drops and i thought that was going to help i thought it was going to be fine in the coming weeks i just kept going down to the point now where it's weird because i can't hear a lot of like high stuff i can't really but But I can make out people.

15:16It just sounds like bass. It sounds like if somebody took your voice and removed all the high end and it was just bass. Just in that ear. Bassy, yeah. But your left ear is normal. Oh, yeah. Wow, that's quite a lot to deal with. No, it's not. Really? It's fine. I can see how it has to work bass. So I think you're going to say no to this, but I'm going to say it anyway. There's some people who have a broad cross-section of listenership, young and old and in between, but I imagine there might be a few of the older ones who either don't know your music or know it but don't know that they know it. Yes.

15:52So can you sing a little bit of one of your songs? We can. No, you don't know? Do you know how they go? Of course. We could sing one of the newer ones. I'm glad you said that. Well, only if you know something. thing i can always teach you to i don't like putting people on the spot and i just know i've done that asking you to join me you wouldn't come to be comfortable singing on your own i think people would rather hear from you yeah but i would actually rather i actually have never heard you sing do you sing is there an effect on your voice on your recordings yes there is but i can sing you can reproduce it i can sing it like pretty to the to the oh god take a look inside your heart is there any room for me?

16:34Are we doing a duet? Then it's over to you. Oh my god. I won't have to hold my breath till you get down on one. Knee, knee. Because you only want to hold me when I'm looking good enough. Did you ever film me? Would you ever picture us? Every time I pull my hair, well it's only out of fear that you'll find me ugly and one They'll disappear because What's the point of crying? It was never even love Oh jeez Did you ever, did you ever want me I'm better in falsetto Did you ever want me Was I ever good enough The boys are You've got to do that bit Liar You've got to say Leah You know I'm saying liar I know but don't you Liar I sing it as You don't sing it as Leah The boys are Leah You should do the rap.

17:28Can you do the rap, please? Doesn't see ya. Is it on there? I only know I haven't learned the rap. I like how she goes, she does a funny thing. Da-da-da. Da-da-da. Do you know what that means? Uh, da-da-da. You know what someone's da-da-da is? Can you do the rap? Um, he say that I'm good enough, grabbing my da-da-da, thinking about things that I shouldn't have. That's a great rhyme, da-da-da and shouldn't have. But you don't know what a da-da-da is? Um, it's either her bum or her front bum. Yeah, okay. what is it i'll leave that to you come on no it's it's it's her it's her derriere yes as you would say in french derriere yes do you speak french i'm doing it on duolingo let's stay focused um i think if i wanted to zoom out for a second because we started by talking about tiktok and a little bit about anxiety so what happened was you started out posting stuff on soundcloud then on TikTok you then translated that into kind of global chart success and you're in the midst of I suppose a kind of a transitionary period where you're sort of coming out of the bedroom figuratively and kind of taking the main stage yes yeah I guess as every artist has to do yeah but in your case it's a little different because a lot of artists would come up through either talent shows or you know x factor or doing local you know doing the mickey mouse club on disney or you know like this but basically forms of supplying their trade in a way that involves getting up in front of the public a lot in the real world setting yes which you haven't done quite so much no not really so i guess the question is how are you finding that transition so I've been performing since 2021 when I had my first live shows but yeah it's true and I think there's a large conversation at the moment especially around artists going from the bedroom and to the stage and some artists not being ready and some artists not being developed enough and I definitely understand the argument especially as someone who in the UK we are so known for stuff like the Brit School and you know having artists rise up through performing in pubs and you know we have Adele, we have Amy Winehouse, we have everyone, George Smith, we've got these great singers and it's very talent-based over here I feel like over in America there's more likelihood of like virality because of just how big the place is and so basically when it comes to someone like me I felt a lot of pressure being from here and realizing okay cool my talent isn't necessarily in singing or performing i'm not like quote-unquote the strongest thing i don't have these powerhouse vocals at all as a performer i've never been drawn to like the spotlight i'm not really too interested on going on stage you actually made like an ick face when you said performer well yeah because i just feel like even watching clips sometimes myself i'm like oh god you know i feel like i'm getting better and i i do want to get better because i i do get inspired a lot about seeing other performers and thinking god they look amazing i don't want to dance but I definitely want to be able to go up and show people a good time.

20:37For me as an artist, I feel like I've had to deal with people knowing I'm not good at performing. I've had to deal with people telling me how I could do better, taking those comments and learning from them. If you suddenly started having the job that you love, my favourite part of my job is writing and pushing music and experimenting with music. That's my favourite part. My favourite part isn't performing. And somebody's telling you, OK, you can't only like your favourite sector, which is writing. You also have to do stuff you hate, which is being in front of cameras, being recorded, telling people information about yourself and performing.

21:10I can't pick and choose. I mean, I can pick and choose. I could have said, oh, I'm not doing live performances ever. But then I wouldn't have grown this big. I've had to do stuff which I didn't want to do. And I've had to basically just take it in my stride. I didn't want to be photographed ever. Really? No, I wanted to be anonymous for my whole crew. But then I realised I could only get so big if I do that. So, yeah, I broke three from those shackles and I'm better for it, but, you know, scary. Well, you started out, as you say, anonymous. And in fact, for a while, there was this mystique around who you were and you didn't reveal your real name.

21:44No. And you didn't do interviews. I think what was the sort of the level of revelation as it went on? First of all, you released a picture of yourself, did you? Oh, yeah, a selfie. Because prior to that, people weren't sure what race you were. That's funny. No, they didn't. they thought I was they thought I was white I think people thought you were white and so was that weird or not of course it was because my first song the song we the one we can't speak about because it's based on an unauthorized Michael Jackson sample I say the n-word I say on the song I say the n-word so people were dming me thinking I was white and they were going oh my god you are disgusting you said the n-word how dare you you know you're not black and I was like wait but because it was I was like half like do I tell them do I have to prove that I am but then I was just like I am black and then once people found out what I look like they were like oh my god that's crazy I think people are still shocked to this day I think people are still when they find out they're like oh my god but that's what I mean Louis about the whole powerhouse folk I feel like people just aren't used to have hearing a black person sound or have voice like mine or yeah so people thought you were white then you released a picture then And gradually, well, in fact, you were outed in a way, weren't you?

22:59By the Daily Mail. Yeah, on Sunday, if you want to be exact. Yeah, but who reads that, you know? But honestly... Only millions of people. I don't know anything about newspaper politics or what newspaper is more left. I had no idea what that... So I used to read the Daily Mail because my mum used to read the Daily Mail. It's a right-wing paper. Yeah, well, yeah, I know that now. But as a 16-year-old, I thought it was just where I got my information. And it was only until I read the comments back in the day where I realised oh blimey like these people are they're psychos flipping heck yeah flipping hell flipping hell yeah yeah and then I read the comments because that's a self-selecting like you've got to be you don't I don't think you have to be right wing and racist to read the mail on Sunday no but if you're so involved that you're going to write comments yeah well writing comments you're in the inner circle yeah you're you're you're full on Gucci gang there's there's no saving you once you are starting to type in the comment section that's what i that's what i realized and so i realized the people in this these comments and then basically cool yes i got outed and then i was like okay well what could they have said and it was because i think you'd won the bbc sound of music 2022 yes so yeah that's why it was on there and i reached that level of fame and accomplishment where a mainstream tabloid took notice and said let's unmask um they unmask everyone they did an article unmasking banksy i believe i actually was they would unmask father christmas himself if they thought it would sell papers and the comments would still be about his weight or something like that foreigner coming over here dropping his presence down the chimney yeah leaving his trash around what's his agenda what's his agenda go back to lapland yeah you know so yeah i remember actually like having a call with the journalist.

24:51Right. And I think... But they called you up. How did they get your number? No, they put their number in the email because they sent it to... They sent an email to my dad asking for a photo of me and my dad was like... And I crone the woman, the journalist, and I was just like... I was just like, why? And the thing around my name isn't anything... I've always said this. It's not because I'm like, oh, I don't want people. It's just because I genuinely feel that the name is so precious to each individual. Do you know what I mean? Do you still prefer your name not being put out there? Well, yes, but it's because your name is so, for me anyway, it's such an important part of who you are.

25:26But yeah, so I didn't want my name to be put out there. And it was weird because even though they knew nothing about me, everyone was being mean to me in the comments accent. Were they? What were they saying? They just said I was no, actually one of them did say I was no Amy Winehouse because they posted my song and they were like, oh, she's not quite Amy. They were just saying my voice was annoying and high and that they didn't get the music and they thought I was crap. and they said that, I think one of them even said, I looked bad, like, over my face. And I think some of my fan pages came to my defence and they started calling everyone losers, you're idiots, you're mean.

25:57But the article itself, this is when I realised, this is when I realised about the right-wing agenda. They mentioned my race almost instantly. And on top of that, they also mentioned... In the article? Yes. And they also mentioned something about the price of my house in Canterbury, where I'm from. which was wrong but it was just so bizarre I just was like £500 ,000 they said No but that's not even true They said£500 ,000 townhouse in Canterbury Townhouse! You should see it I did think £500 ,000 I did reading it I was like £500 ,000 in Canterbury That probably buys a lot Yeah no No chance No chance So that annoyed me because I was like the information is just factually wrong I wrote down the headline because the headline was funny It was like unmasked and I was like I'm based off of the internet like I Unmasked!

26:48Exclamation mark New 20 year old TikTok pop sensation called Pink Pantheress is the quote posh daughter of a statistics professor and a civil servant Factually wrong but either way my point was like well what I don't understand what they were trying to like prove that posh Went to selective and high achieving Barren Court Grammar School But what what does that like 500 ,000 pound townhouse in Canterbury. But you know, it tells you a lot about the mail on Sunday, which is that they are obsessed with people being privately educated, posh, having expensive houses. I guess my question is, you know, given that you'd spent the previous year avoiding excessive exposure and deliberately maintaining a level of mystique, how did that feel, the sort of the being quote unquote unmasked?

27:37Unmasked. Well, listen, I didn't care because at the end of the day, I see culture in two different forms. I believe there is household name fame and there is internet fame. And the reason why I laughed at that was because I believe I hail from the internet. And therefore, I don't expect people who read that tabloid or really people that are walking outside down the street. Those are the same people that will listen to rap of today and think that it's not an art form because they're just mumbling into like these are the same people that don't view like rap as a real genre of music you know and this is another thing about hailing from the internet and why I believe you know Gen Z are like I just think we're open to more things that we haven't seen before people haven't heard a girl with a chipmunk voice sing about anxiety so that's what I provide and I feel like people over here don't really want to see it that's why they comment stuff and that's why there's articles and I can't stress enough with false facts which are emphasizing things like the fact that I'm biracial or emphasizing the fact that I have any type of identity which isn't straight British it's yeah that's my thing that's all I'm gonna say there's two forms of culture internet-based non-internet-based I hail from this side so there's no point for people that aren't internet-based getting involved that's how I actually feel that was very well expressed what do you mean when you say you hail from the internet i hail from internet i hail from the internet i hail from the internet you're just saying it well you said it earlier no i am well you said it earlier you said you know i haven't done these um pub appearances these live shows i haven't done these talent shows i haven't been on national television to discover me you technically unless you're hearing word of mouth have had to be online and that's kind of still true no not as much actually because I'm branching out I'm happy to branch out I want to cover more spaces than just online but initially back then it was very much online hence why they said TikTok sensation by the way TikTok sensation it's interesting to reflect you started on SoundCloud but then TikTok yeah I was completely because completely ticked yeah because I didn't have a label backing or I don't know anyone to do with anyone in music so I the only thing I had to do was I just had to find a way TikTok I knew was the way people were getting their music seen and I saw people do it I was like okay it's cool is it true that you almost tactically and strategically yeah it's tactically gamed the algorithm I don't think I gained I think I just paid notice to what worked how did you do that same way if you if one were to go hunting and they wanted to catch a deer and they would check the parameters of how they should catch a deer.

30:28I essentially did that with what time should I post. You've gone with a hunting metaphor. I didn't know what to go for. Was that unexpected? Yeah, I didn't really know what to go for. Lost the vegans. No, I would never personally hunt deer. I'm just playing Red Dead Redemption 2, so I've been doing it a lot in the game. Never in real life. I mean, what I read was that you followed a thousand different accounts an hour per hour. Yeah, on SoundCloud. On SoundCloud? Yeah. When I told you I was determined, I was like, no, I'm going to make this work. So my thing was, do you remember on Instagram back in the day?

30:59Oh, I don't know if you will. Follow for follow. Shout out, shout out. Do you know what that is? I think I can figure it out. Follow for follow. Follow for follow. Speaks for itself. And you'd message or you'd comment. So I was a teenager doing this. I was not an adult. I'm just going to let that be known. I was a teenager. So I was like 17. And I would just be so bored at home. I did have a great social life. Not, you know, let me make that clear too. but I did choose to leave events early just to go home and like spend hours on SoundCloud because people blew up on SoundCloud and I just I was like I want to blow up too like I want to get my music heard so I would actually just follow for follow so basically you started getting followers that way but then on TikTok how do you sort of figure out what's going to work on TikTok um so the voice that I sing with I've been using since before I've been singing with my this is I mean this is my singing voice but I just felt like I don't know I feel like I just posted it and then people liked it and then I was reading comments and I was trying to figure out oh what is it about this that people like so much because I thought it was good music I didn't think it was going to be I didn't think people are going to like it that much so I was very intrigued as to what it was because people said well I've never heard this before people were even commenting things like what genre is this and I was like okay so it must mean that they want more of this type of stuff and you know what music and I'm sure you know this music is more than just music making music is business.

32:20I've always noticed that the best musicians are musicians that have done the best, someone like, for example, Drake, are people that pick up on what is trending or what could trend, and they pick up on it early so that they can be the ones people are listening to. I wanted to be ahead of the curve because it is business like it is. Do you like Drake? I love him. I hear a little bit of Drake in you. Yes. Well, yeah, I honestly have been listening to Drake for the long, yeah. In the new album, some of the melody lines. Oh my God, that's amazing that you say that because sometimes when I write a song, I'm like, like, what would Drake do?

32:52Because I love his melodies. He doesn't do like classical melody styles. He's got his own... Very much his own melody style. Very distinctive. Sometimes, I'm going to say this and it might annoy me. Sometimes they're barely melodies. Like he's just sort of doing a Drake thing. The only he can do maybe. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? That's part of the charm of it all.

33:18so he works in is that a melody? yeah but it is do you know which one I was doing?

33:26yeah yeah yeah because he sings in what do you call them? in octaves but it's not it's fifths or something they're not octaves they're fifths aren't they yeah and I did not Drake influence I do that too and I notice I hear that in you right and he does it too his melodies are so good to me I always thought to myself what is it about his melodies I like and I realised it's because of those jumps that he does in his melodies and yeah

34:20Hi! Too loud. Hi, I'm Louis Theroux and you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now, back to my conversation with Pink Pantheress.

34:34Would you have been doing all of this without the pandemic? because it was December 2020 when that first track launched was absolutely in the middle of pandemic lockdown whatever lockdown that was it was the worst it was that Christmas where Christmas was cancelled remember and then January February all the deaths were surging and your music was coming out you were saying that you feel like there's this expectation that now you're going to translate that online internet success into something less virtual it sounded it as though you were like people say you know oh now you've got to do shows and now you've got to and and that's not really in your comfort zone and maybe not even certainly didn't used to be part of your ambition yeah who's telling you that who's saying that you should be doing those things um i'd say it was um me myself and i it's not anyone from the label anyone from well i feel like people do encourage i honestly you know what it is i try to do things very off kilter but sometimes I do play by the book and the book says we should care about charts we should care about these uh accolades and when people tell me the importance of the book I go okay fair enough like I do actually care like the BBC sound of 2022 I was like okay I do really care about this when beforehand I might have been like oh I really care but now I'm like I do I really care about this kind of stuff so live performance is one of those things where I see other people do it my inspirations my influences and I go yeah I do want to be as impressive as they are who are you thinking of specifically so many people I mean Hayley Williams oh exactly exactly perfect person I saw her on stage and that was when I was like oh god like she looks like a like a boss lead singer of Paramore and also a solo artist yes she is because I was preparing for this interview and I knew how important Hayley Williams was I'm worried I looked up some Hayley Williams and Paramount.