S2 EP8: Sharon Stone discusses facing off with Robert Mugabe, lifting weights with Arnold Schwarzenegger, and her calamitous dating app experiences.

32:35It was all so new to me. I'd never been to a big premiere. I didn't even know what was happening. It was just crazy. I mean, I went to Total Recall in Cannes, but like, you know, that was like a party. This was like a serious film, serious business. It was all on the line. I knew that my career was either beginning or ending. There was no middle ground. I had taken such risks. It was either beginning or over. This was the last hurrah. I was 32. I put my entire, literally put my ass on the line. And that was it. And then suddenly it was just this chaos. It was just it was so overwhelming. I was kind of in shock when we went to Cannes and opened the festival.

33:22And then when I went on the carpet and people started chanting my name, not Michael's, not the movie, but me. And then Paul shoved me out on the carpet ahead of everybody else. I was just like, oh, that's when it dawned on me. Like, I didn't really get it until Cannes. It's hard to overestimate how big it was and not just in terms of box office, but the cultural impact. And as you say, it was squarely on your shoulders. And as much as that was, I'm sure, positive and involved massive stardom and success, I think it was a little more ambiguous than that in some ways. almost as though aspects of the Catherine Trammell character were projected onto you, that you were loved, but also maybe people feared you.

34:16And that must have been complicated. And that was a kind of grudgeful note to some of the publicity. And actually the film itself, I don't think the reviews were rapturous. I think some people loved it, but others didn't. No, the reviews were not good. My reviews were like, she was like a cheap Chardonnay. and stuff like that. And no one wanted to give me a millimeter of positivity. People wanted to make fun of me. The movie was a worldwide, it was the Beatles. But yet no one wanted to give me a sliver of anything. It was the strangest. Did it feel like that? Because from where I was sitting, you know, as a sort of young man in his 20s, it seemed as though you had the world at your feet.

35:07But that people thought the narrative seemed to be she's beautiful. Maybe she's too beautiful. She's powerful. Maybe she's too powerful. She takes herself quite seriously. That was sort of the narrative. And there's something cold about her that as much as we admire her, there's a part of it that we don't endorse. like there is a feminine softness that we don't see. Exactly. I don't know. I wasn't behaving like a real girl. But did you experience it like that from the inside? I was trying to hold my own self-respect and dignity against all of the jokes and attention towards my vagina. Right. We haven't mentioned that.

35:54And maybe that was subconscious. The fact that, again, for the younger audience, For a lot of people, the takeaway was that there was this shot in which you could see up your skirt. And very little was revealed. But everyone else in the world seemed to fixate on it. Well, because it was a quarter of a frame. So it was a compressed frame. It wasn't a whole frame. So people kept trying to see if they could see something. But it was ultimately a quarter of a frame. But because of that, people tried to diminish me as a person for playing this incredibly powerful, manipulative, sociopathic character and for playing it well.

36:41But because you saw this quarter of a frame up my skirt, they wanted to diminish me as a human being, me personally, the woman who played the part. And, I mean, I lost custody of my child over that. I was going to mention that. It's reported that when you were divorcing Phil Bronstein, your second husband, that you wanted, I guess, more custodial responsibility for your son, Rowan. What exactly happened? It seems extraordinary that that would have had some bearing on the decision. How was that phrased? What did the judge say? The judge said that I made sex films. The judge asked my tiny child if he knew that his mother made sex films.

37:31Wow. That's amazing. That must have been painful. I was in shock. I ended up in the Mayo Clinic with an extra heartbeat in the upper and lower chambers of my heart because I just stopped eating. I didn't even know what was happening to me. I was just so confused that I could play a part for three months and lose my child. I could be so good at playing a part in a movie that I could lose custody of my child. You had a follow-up film Sliver, which didn't do so well. And it felt like, again, there was this feeling of like, oh, yes, see, we were vindicated. You know, a million dollars at the box office is not not doing so well.

38:15I think it made like$280 million. Did it? But when you say doesn't do so well, it's because they expected me to bring home another giant smash hit. And they gave me casting approval and they gave me all these approvals. But then when it came time for me to do it, they told me it was a vanity deal and I couldn't have my approvals. And then they started to try to blame me for their mistakes. and they made terrible mistakes in the way that they hired directors and casts. Was it directed by Philip Noyce? Do I have that right? Well, when he was fully present. Uh-oh. Is he alive? Can we say that? Can we say that?

39:06I think it's not. And it was Robert Evans. He's definitely dead. Robert Evans, I think he used to like a little nose candy. A little. He called me to his office with a box of malted milk balls under his arm. He had those very low 70s, 80s couches. So I'm essentially sitting on the floor when I should have been on set. and he had the spout of the milk balls box open. And the milk balls are falling out of this malted milk ball container, rolling all over the floor. And he's running around his office in his sunglasses, explaining to me that he slept with Ava Gardner and I should sleep with Billy Baldwin.

39:52Because if I slept with Billy Baldwin, Billy Baldwin's performance would get better. And we needed Billy to get better in the movie because that was the problem. And if I could sleep with Billy, then we would have chemistry on screen. And if I would just have sex with him, then that would save the movie. And the real problem in the movie was me because I was so uptight and so not like a real actress who could just fuck him and get things back on track. And the real problem was that I was such a tight ass. and you know I'm just sitting there watching the malted milk balls roll all over the floor thinking about how he wouldn't listen to the list of actors that I suggested for the part and why you know they expect me to go from Michael Douglas to Billy Baldwin and you know I didn't have to fuck Michael Douglas Michael could come to work and just know how to like hit those marks and do that line and rehearse and show up.

40:57And now all of a sudden I'm in the I have to fuck people business. What was his agenda with the milk balls? I think he was just high and didn't even know he had them. I think he was just high out of his mind and rolling around his office. And I don't even think he knew he had them.

41:43Hi, I'm Louis Theroux, and you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now back to my conversation with Sharon Stone. I think you had a deal with Miramax at one point, did you? Yes, I had a deal with Miramax for quite some time. And did you have to deal with Harvey Weinstein? And what was your experience there like? I had to deal with Harvey all the time while I worked with Amphar for about a decade while he was there. I mean, I was with them for like 30 years, but he was there for like a decade. The AIDS Research Charity, which you've done a lot of work for. I had a long time of dealing with Harvey, and I'm really glad that he's in prison, and I think he should stay there with the rest of the people who are like him.

42:29And Harvey's a pig. Harvey is just a pig. And he's just, you're always, he's an octopus and you're just always getting one of his tentacles off you. And, you know, he's always thinks that he's the boss of all things. I would be doing these auctions for Ampar and he'd come out and, you know, put his arm around me and take the microphone and start trying to tell me that I was supposed to take the bid of one of his friends. And, you know, I'd have to unwind him off me and, you know, say like, I call the bids, Harvey, fuck off, get off the stage. And everybody think it was funny that I'd be like, fuck off, Harvey.

43:14feel off me fuck off Harvey get off the stage I call the bids I call the numbers Harvey but you know I'd come off the stage and he'd be backstage shoving me around or throwing me across the room or you know he was very violent and he was an anaconda he was disgusting pig would you have been too powerful for him to attempt to coerce you into molest yeah molest or coerce you into sex? He would say things to me like, you know, you think you're such a princess, Sharon, as I would unwind him off me. And I'd say, yeah, you know, Harvey, I think I'm the queen of France. Fuck off. But he was certainly comfortable with throwing me across a room.

44:01He was physically violent to me on more than one occasion because he was so angry at me because I wouldn't do what he wanted me to do. I know you've worked with Woody Allen a few times over the years. Yes, three times and had a spectacular, successful experience every time. No problems ever. You've got good things to say about Woody and would work with him again. Yeah, I worked with him when I was really young, worked with him on Stardust Memories, and I was on the set for weeks. I worked with him before he met Sun Yi. I worked with him and met her. I've worked with him off and on all my life and never a hint of anything inappropriate ever.

44:48I've never seen him be inappropriate. I've never seen him demonstrate a whiff of impropriety towards any woman or any young girl. I've never seen him behave in any way that wasn't completely professional and charming and funny and nice and good. You know, just while we're in this area, I mean, actually, it doesn't really relate directly. But you know, with Paul Verhoeven, he seems, you know, he's a visionary auteur director, he also made Robocop and Starship Troopers. And he had a very distinctive vision that was part art house, part big budget spectacular. And then it felt like he ran out of road in Hollywood after remade hollow man the invisible man movie but do you have any sense of like just do you think hollywood is just is it a case that just doesn't have space for people who are too independent like whoever whose artist whose vision is too distinctive how do you explain why he needed to get out yeah i think hollywood really likes people that are this is going to sound really terrible, but I often think that people, Hollywood really praises people that are almost great and loves to make big stars out of the pretty good, but people who are just kind of benign, they love the benign female, for example.

46:20And I didn't really understand this until really recently, I mean, I didn't understand at all when I was going to go to the Oscars and Francis Coppola, I was at another event and Francis put his shoulder, his hand on my shoulder. And he said, I need to talk to you. And I won the Golden Globe for Casino and I was nominated for an Oscar. And I said, oh, sure, what's going on? And he said, you're not going to win the Oscar. and I looked at him and I said I'm not and he said no and I thought I was going to cry and and he said I want you to feel like you're going to cry now I don't want you to cry in the room and that's why I'm doing this and it feels so mean right now he said but I didn't win for The Godfather.

47:15And Marty didn't win for Raging Bull. And you're not going to win for Casino. And it's because this room can't hear opera. They don't let us win because they don't want us to take over the system. This is not the level of films they want. And your performance will stand the test of time. And when you lose, Marty and I are going to be in the room and you're going to lose with us. And when you lose, we're going to be holding you when you lose. So be ready, be centered, be elegant. We're going to be with you. And I was so kicked, but he gave me enough time to process it so that when I went, I was ready.

48:08And then I took my dad and then right before they called our category, I turned to my dad and I said, dad, it's not going to be me. It's not going to be me. It's going to be Susan Sarandon. And he said, no, it's you. You're winning. And I said, dad, it's my category. They're going to cut to me when they call her name and we have to smile and pretend we're happy about it. So it's now. And he said, no. And I said, dad, it's now. And he said, no, Sharon, no. And I said, dad, right now, right now, smile right now, now. And they called the names. And he looked at me and he went, like, oh, just hate this.

48:48And I went, me too, I hate it. And he was squeezed my hand. I thought he was going to break my hand. And it's just like, you know, you have to pretend it's fantastic and it's not fantastic. And then I didn't get any good parts ever again for the rest of my entire life. And guess what? Really? Do you see it that way? I mean, I haven't dug. That can't be true, can it? I mean, really? I'm sure there were some other movies that you did that were good. No. And guess what? But I hate it. I hate it. Because it's easier to say she's cold or I don't like her or she's difficult or she's must be sick or she's too old or that she's hard to cast or we don't know what to do with her.

49:43Then what if she comes in and gives another performance and she gets nominated instead of Robert De Niro? Well, that doesn't go well. That's not what we want to have happen. You're saying post-casino there is no movie of yours that you feel proud of? Well, take a look. Well, there was a Jim Jarmusch one, wasn't there? I haven't seen it, though. Well, yeah, but did anybody notice me? Did anybody notice me in Lovelace? That was a performance you could just, like, you could sharpen your knives on. Did anybody notice that? Nope. Do you see any acknowledgement for any of this stuff? Nope. I'm the invisible actress.

50:31The muse looked fun. The Albert Brooks one. Was great. Does anybody notice it? I hate it. I could play Hamlin in the nude. I hate it. There's just nothing. What do you think? You had said earlier that you felt there was baggage to look the way you looked. I just want to revisit that one more time. Is the feeling that because of your extraordinary beauty and presence that it was what? And also that I didn't crumble when everybody wanted me to crumble and be like embarrassed or apologetic because I did a good job playing a complicated part. Like, what am I supposed to feel sorry for? Because I did my fucking job.

51:24Like, fuck off. how's your energy if you've got time and you've got if you've if you're okay with i'd love just to talk about your upbringing a little bit i hadn't really known much about this before i began reading and in particular in your book you'd grown up in western pennsylvania and and how your family story was complicated and your parents had met when they i think she was 16 he was 17 they were devoted to each other but that you that you and your three siblings maybe were left out in certain ways and obviously you know i don't think you were on the bread line but you were not part of a particularly well-off family like money didn't seem to be abundant right which probably didn't help and overshadowing it all is the fact that and again i'm going to mention this because it's in the book and you can feel free to talk or not talk about it as much as you like is your grandfather your mother's father who who you describe as as being an abuser a pedophile a pedophile okay he's a pedophile yeah and so what happened was I think that my mom I think the stress of they lived in a five kids two-bedroom house on the railroad tracks I think she was given away when she was nine to be a child servant in another house My dad was given away when he was four because they were oil drillers and the oil well blew up.

52:56So both my parents were child servants. My mother, I think, suffered from probably a bit of dissociative disorder and perhaps bipolar disorder as a result of the extreme trauma of her childhood. And when that happens, when you're so young and there's such extreme abuse, sometimes a kid will present another kid to take the abuse, to relieve themselves of the abuse, which is what the therapists think that my mother may have done. which is the part where I really for much of my life thought my mother was a criminal and I didn't see my mother as a mentally disturbed child trying to get to safety. This is much like the Epstein situation where he was paying these 12, 13, 14 year old girls to bring other girls after they had been traumatized.

54:07So either they didn't have to come back, right? They could get off the hook by sending other girls. And a lot of these girls feel terrible. As adults, they're very traumatized because they were supplying these other girls to Epstein, but they were little, little girls themselves. For much of my life, I just thought my mother was a criminal or had some kind of disorder. I was afraid of her. And I was afraid of her violence. And I was afraid of her temper. And I was afraid of her. And it made me really shy and have a tremendous amount of social anxiety. and I am very shy and do have a tremendous amount of social anxiety, which people don't understand because of the way I look.

55:00People just think that I'm arrogant and dismiss it,

55:06which is something that I play to. It helps me hide. It helps me not be, you know, have people jumping all over me and grabbing me because, of course, that's what happened to me when I got famous is that everyone wanted to touch me. And touching me all over the place was, of course, my least favorite thing to have happened to me when I got favorite. And of course, then having people interested in me sexually in the weird ways they became interested in me was, again, my least favorite thing that could have happened to me. But of course, demonstrating a malicious sexuality was something I could conjure because I was pretty mad about it.

55:57And you felt at the time, was it your suspicion that your mom might have known that something was going on, that your grandfather was doing something? my mother really shut down. My mom gained weight, got a lot of fibroid tumors. She did all of the things that in a modern society we would see as the responses of no therapy, no care, no help, no healing. As a grown older woman, I now fully see it, you know, and I got her therapy as we got older, but I didn't, of course, how could I understand this, all of her acting out when I was a teenager? I could not understand why she was the mom on the school trip who, you know, played cards and drank with the other kids.

56:54Like I couldn't understand her acting out. You know, I was just humiliated and embarrassed. And, you know, I didn't understand what my mom was going through, that my mom never had a childhood. I didn't understand that my older brother and she were more like brother and sister than mother and son. I didn't understand any of it until I got much, much older. And writing the book was so illuminating. And then when I read the book to her, then I went back and rewrote the part of the book where I really started to understand her more because she started opening up and I just hit record on my phone and recorded everything she said.

57:34And all of a sudden I was like, whoa, okay. Even still, I'm understanding things about my family and my life that I never would have understood before. You know, it's been almost 20 years ago now that I was dating a lawyer and he called me and he said, there's a guy in the office and he says, he's your cousin. And I said, fantastic. I don't even have relatives. That's so great. How is he my cousin? Well, you know, his grandmother had an affair with your grandfather. Oh, that seems very reasonable. My grandfather was nuts. Well, okay, but he's black. And I'm like, well, so like, you know, my grandfather would have had an affair with a chair, black seems so nothing like great.

58:24I have black relatives. How exciting, you know, send him over. So he came in and he was the spitting image of my older brother, but black. And I was like, well, it's clear we're related. You look just like our family. You know what I mean? You look just like us. Great. Hi, nice to know you and let's hang out and let's get to know each other. And when my mom was going to have her 90th birthday, I said, I want to tell you something. I don't know how you feel about this, but we have a cousin and this is how he came to be. And my mother said, well, I'm sure we have all kinds of relatives because my father was so promiscuous and I would love to meet him.

59:05And so he came to my mom's 90th birthday and my mother, now that she lives in a care home and has, you know, 24 seven medical care. She's very different. She's very settled out. She's lovely now. Like for the first time in my life. I have a mom. She invited me to lunch next week. I just, I can't even believe I have this mother who is trying to come to terms with me and talk to me and is like a normal human being. Well, that's, I'm sure I can, and abuse is unfortunately very common. It's an everyday thing. Oh, it's an everyday all the time thing. Yeah. And people don't even know, is this abuse?

59:50Was that abuse? What do I think about it? And sometimes I think, well, what I ended up thinking was that the abuse that my grandfather tried to do or did was maybe not even the most hurtful abuse. Sometimes abuse that happens in relationships you choose to be in is far more hurtful because it's far more insidious and intentional and not from someone who's just sick. You know, once you really look at why something happened and what it was and why someone did something and then you start putting things in perspective, you can start really looking at who did what and why. And we have to start normalizing, talking about all these things that are all too common.

1:00:39It took me so long to understand my mom, mainly because she wasn't allowed to talk about anything that happened to her. Because women had even less rights than they're trying to take away now. Can I read a relevant, this is, I don't know if this is triggering, but this is the relevant passage of your book that relates to some of what we're talking about. Our mother later said she didn't know about her father's perverse behavior toward us during our older and elementary years. She said she was bitterly sorry she hated him. He, Clarence, had beaten her mother every day of her mother's life. She loved us so much she now understood why we felt about her in all of the ways that we do.

1:01:20And there are so many ways that I feel. Nothing is a big way that I felt. Just nothing. Nothing at all. For those of us who have left this broken peace that has left us unable to mate as others seem to do, there is such comfort in solitude. There is comfort in the alone time, I guess, or it just seems less dangerous.

1:01:46Well, this is the year that I feel that I have gone beyond that. This is the year I feel that I could possibly meet somebody. I know that I'm old, but I don't believe that until you're dead, it's over. But I feel that I feel a lot now, not feel nothing. I feel that I have compassion and empathy for my mother and even a tinge of tenderness. I actually see the child that she never got to be. And I've cared for myself in all of that aloneness that I have taken. And I've taken a lot of aloneness. and I think that now I actually feel ready not to be alone.

1:03:11Hi, me again, Louis Theroux. Just to remind you, you're listening to the Louis Theroux podcast. And now, back to my conversation with Sharon Stone.

1:03:25Notwithstanding what we were saying about your movie career, I think you have a movie coming out. I don't. I mean, they actually are putting out a movie that's a 15-year-old movie I did with Andy Garcia. That's the one. It's 15 years old? That wasn't good enough to put out when we completed it. The director was a first-time director, and it didn't come together. And I'm not sure why they're putting it out now. Maybe they've re-edited it 1 ,500 times. I don't know why they're putting it out now. I've explained to my management, I think it's supply and demand, and I don't think I have enough projects.

1:04:03People want projects from me, and we don't have projects to give them. If Scorsese calls you up tomorrow and says, I'm making a movie and I'd love you to be in it, you would be there, would you? Yes. Yes. What about Basic Instinct 3? Well, I felt that the studio fell down on two. They didn't have a great script. They didn't pull it together. Directed by Michael Caton Jones. It was almost like a British movie, like it had Stan Collymore, the footballer. British footballer was in it. And David Morrissey was kind of in the Michael Douglas role. I don't even think you could say he was in the Michael Douglas role because he wasn't in the Michael Douglas role.

1:04:50He was in some other idea. and I don't know what they thought they were doing, but nobody there was making a movie. Really? It gets, I think, something like 6 % on Rotten Tomatoes. That would have been generous. But I watched a bit of it. It looked enjoyably kind of bubblegum, you know, looked kind of winningly. I don't even think that you could give it that. I think it was just a piece of shit and they deserved what they got. They got what they paid for and they did what they set out to do. And they got exactly what they deserved. It was number 16 on the 25 biggest box office bombs of all time.

1:05:37That it even made a list is a compliment.

1:05:44You've got so much detachment. I love your... I can't even tell you. Being on that set was – the set was a joke. I never saw anything – I mean I've been on D movies and I've never seen anything like that in my life. Are we legally okay with that? I think that was legally fine. We can't – we'll have to – other opinions are available. I have to say I've never seen anything like the zoo that was that set. What was – I mean, okay, we've opened up a whole other topic. I mean, to the point that I called Paramount saying I thought they should send someone to the set to wrangle everybody to be able to do their jobs because nothing was happening.

1:06:28And I couldn't believe that they were throwing money down the shitter. I never saw such an abuse of waste of a studio's money in all my life. How are we going to talk? We're trying to co-start this on a more positive note. there's so much more we could talk about i have three teenage boys well two teenagers and one nine-year-old so i can relate in some way to whatever you're feeling not so much as a mother but as a parent something we have in common i just wanted to point that out and something you said i think where they don't want to necessarily engage with you but they sort of want you there so they cannot engage with you you know they can not they can sort of actively ignore you it's like you are stapled to the couch but fuck off yes they need you as a scratching post right something to yes to kind of growl at and um and and i think that's pretty normal anyway i just throwing that in to get us out of the the heavy stuff it's very important that you're there it's very important i've stopped traveling and i used to make documentaries that took me on the road and was away for a few months a year.

1:07:40And then in the last few years, since they became, you can sort of get away with it when they're very young and even toddlers and even slightly later, but then it's almost the more they break away, they need you to be there to break away from, it seems to me. Exactly. Exactly. And sometimes I say to my 18-year-old who's just getting ready to go to college next year, I'll show him something. He's sitting in the room and he just won't even look look, he won't look. He refuses to look up. I want to show you this. No, I'm not going to lie. Can you even look? No, I don't want to see it. I don't even want to see it.

1:08:17And finally, I get so frustrated. And then I say to him, oh, this is where you're disconnecting from me so you can leave. I get it. It hurts my feelings, but this is what you're supposed to be doing. Psychologically, this is a healthy moment and I shouldn't be freaking out. Let me readjust myself so I don't have such hurt feelings. And then he'll look up from the couch and go, okay. Like I'm talking this all through out loud because I'm trying to - Right, exactly. Whatever, mom. Yeah. Thank you so much, Sharon, for joining me on this chat. I feel like I got a real insight. And for me to talk to someone whose films I've admired, but also who's like, I know you're a legend.

1:09:03I think it was Camille Paglia who said, You're the last great Hollywood star. It was along those lines. I should have had that at my fingertips. So it feels a huge privilege. And just to have a freewheeling and open-hearted conversation, even at such physical distance, is a privilege. So thank you. Thank you. I want to say I like your song. Oh, my God. I got such a kick out of that. And I'm happy to meet you, too. I didn't know where that sentence was going to end. I like your song, I will take Jiggle Jiggle. Thanks again.

1:09:55So there we have it. A conversation I never imagined myself having. Certainly not when I saw Basic Instinct back in 1992 The idea that 31 years, 32 years hence I'd be talking to the screen siren Sharon Stone And that she'd be commenting on Jiggle Jiggle My international global smash And gold record Stream it on Spotify There we go, there's some synergy for you My takeaways from that were The extraordinary self-exposure The depth of her angst the pain of not winning the Oscar, the way she was saying, I hate it, I hate it, was, you know, kind of blistering and, well, very striking, moving, and maybe true of more actors and all kinds of people, you know, who feel in different ways either under fulfilled or in some way ignored or overlooked or underappreciated.

1:11:00And the way in which she reflected on Hollywood generally, something striking, she said that Hollywood rewards something like the nearly talented or the not quite great, which you could write off, like you could unkindly say, well, that sounds like sour grapes. You know, that's a world in which the very highest echelons are people to buy, you know, people less talented than me. Like my problem was I was too good to be at the very top rank. But actually, there's something in the idea that it's a world that rewards success and thereafter tries to replicate success. Like that's my appersoe of Hollywood.

1:11:38It's like it's looking for some iteration of something it already knows and recognizes. And that if you go there, this is going to sound autobiographical and faintly embittered, but never mind. But if you go there with your own vision and something that doesn't squarely fit into the boxes that they already know and are familiar with, then it can be maybe confusing. You know, and that phrase she uses, Hollywood can't hear opera, like she, I think, attributes to Coppola, which speaks for itself. And I do think across the board, here we go, I'm ranting now, but very often the things that you do that are the most interesting, as an artist, yes, I'm calling myself one, are not rewarded.

1:12:18Like the things that are most challenging and difficult and knotty and confusing and complex. Anyway, what does this have to do with Sharon Stone? I'm sure it has something. The other thing I wanted to mention is I felt a bit bad listening back at how much shade was cast at, was thrown in the direction of Basic Instinct 2, which I haven't seen, but I feel like, you know, if Michael Caton Jones or David Morrissey or any of the others, stan collymore we're listening let me speak to you directly right now whether or not that film was a piece of shit i don't know but um we all do films and make things that we're not proud of and you know a day's work is a day's work oh this isn't doing anything and so you are welcome on the podcast any time to present your version of events.

1:13:12Consider debt an invitation. I noticed Sharon did not react to my Arnold Schwarzenegger impression. I'll pass over that without comment. I'm not offended. We spoke about the two movies she filmed in Zimbabwe. Those were King Solomon's Mines and Alan Quartermain and the Lost City of Gold, 1985 and 1986 respectively. And I did watch a little bit of one of them and it was so goofy, it was hilarious. It was very much a kind of low-rent knockoff of Indiana Jones with Richard Chamberlain from Dr. Kildare filling in for Harrison Ford, even down to the hat. regarding the contention that Sharon had lost custody of her son Rowan because of basic instinct two or had her custody restricted, we did a little digging.

1:14:10And what we found was, according to our research, the judge said that Sharon had a tendency to, quote, overreact to her son's health issues and that she put her career first and left parenting to, quote third parties uh but i can't speak to you but sharon obviously feels that there may have been ulterior motives or at least a sense in which the judge might have been influenced by the judge's perception of basic instinct and what it represented so there we have it a bona fide hollywood legend a real life screen siren is that's kind of a sexist term isn't it but maybe I'm using it ironically, which would make it okay.

1:14:50You know, I love Hollywood. Can I put it that boldly? I love the mythology around it. One of my favorite films is Sunset Boulevard. I got a very, I hope this doesn't sound disrespectful, but that sense of grandeur that infuses those old movies about Hollywood, I felt kind of coming down the wires to me when I was speaking to Sharon. So what a privilege, how exciting. I think the other thing that came across was, well, the loneliness, right? And the feeling that Sharon was looking for love and the paradox that stardom and beauty, extreme beauty might be obstacles and high intelligence and self-possession that these might all be obstacles to forming fulfilling long-term relationships.

1:15:35That's an intriguing, not to say like a, you know, I guess a saddening concept. You know, if you're out there and you're not a Hollywood star, you're not well off and being feted at film festivals around the world and the subject of fan interest, then maybe you're better off in your humble, you know, sad little existence in Normieville, right? In nowhere land. Too much? If you've been affected by the topics discussed in this episode, Spotify do have a website for information and resources. Visit spotify.com slash resources. Credits Produced by Millie Chu. The assistant producer was Mahan Al-Yaziri.

1:16:27The production manager was Francesca Bassett. And the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.

1:16:42Thank you.