S3 EP2: Headie One discusses his smash hit ‘Know Better’, security concerns, and the truth about his stage name

29:44I did a little reading up on it. Bear with me. You ready for some research? Yeah. Ready? I'm ready. Often referred to simply as the farm, an area of Tottenham in North London. Basically, an experiment in high-density social housing loosely based on Corbusian ideas, the architect Le Corbusier, dominated by concrete towers connected by walkways, the controversial streets in the sky built in the late 60s using cheap but fire-vulnerable prefab concrete panels. In 1985, in a book published called Utopia on Trial by Alice Coleman, the area acquired a reputation as one of the worst places to live in the United Kingdom, a perception that was exacerbated when serious rioting erupted later that year.

30:32But I think you've got like a kind of more nuanced take on it, like aspects of it were idyllic like there were parks there you had a community there so it was a bit of both was it? Yeah obviously dating back to the 80s I wasn't born yet so I wouldn't really have experienced it to that level because what happened was they kind of changed the estate quite a lot over time where like how they speak about all the roads and the air and all of that I think due to like the high level of crime and that kind of stuff on the riots, they actually knocked all of those links down. So I think back then it used to be a situation where every single tower block, you could travel through the whole estate, through the deck floor, without actually putting your feet on the actual ground.

31:21Yeah, it was like contended that there were nooks and crannies and unsupervised or discreet, quiet areas, corners where mischief could take place. Definitely. so at the point where I was obviously born and I started growing up it was a lot more like like toned down in terms of like yeah a lot of things had been put into place already for things to already start changing but it was still like had a very similar feel like very um a close knit community even like a lot of negative things would happen. On a new album you've got to track memories you say one of my earliest memories was bloodshed you see on the ends all the crazy things you see through a window.

32:07Yeah. You grew up on a household where everybody hates the back bread. What is the back bread? The back bread is like a slang that we use for, you know when you get a loaf of bread and it's like the last, the bread that goes on the edge. The heel I call that. Yeah. So it's not bread on both sides, like one side is kind of like closed off. And it's less desirable. Yeah. Because it's not as soft. Yeah. So that was a thing, was it? Like everybody hates the back bread. Yeah, everybody hated the back bread. If you got the back bread as a slack, you'd be pissed off. You fight for the last slice like we Kimbo, a reference to the backyard brawler Kimbo Slice.

32:44Yeah. Fight for the last slice. Is there a double meaning there that I'm missing? Or are you literally just talking about bread? Yeah, let's talk about the bread, literally.

32:55Wintertime talks to primary school. We took the slip road, had to climb five flights of stairs because the lift broke. Hard trying to fix a broken home This home bin broke Do you want to say anything about any of that? Yeah, just like, speaking about the realities To be honest, like, broken home I didn't grow up with my mum, innit? She died when you were... Like three years old Yeah, Edna Yeah, so I spent a lot of time Growing up with a single parent and my sister And like, I had aunties and what not, and cousins So I'm not sure what terminology they use for it, but my dad used to call it a broken home.

33:34Yeah, that's where I kind of got the term from. So, yeah. You know, it's hard because obviously I've listened to the new album and the other albums and I've sort of studied the lyrics and there's this paradox in rap music in general that certain things have to be spoken of carefully, right? And at the same time, the lyrics are like breadcrumbs. Does that make sense? There's a trail that if you follow it, you can actually sort of figure out basically what's been going on and there's actually a lot of intimacy and self-revelation in your lyrics um one of the things you talk about is uh maybe feeling unloved by your step-mom yeah yeah is there anything you want to say about that um is this one of those ones to be honest really obviously like you know like um it's hard for like a obviously especially like a male parent to like bring up children in the house it's usually not that dynamic and it's usually like the other way around as people would be more familiar with in my knowledge so obviously I had a step mum when I was I think when I was finishing primary school and she wasn't like the greatest of people to be honest so I had a lot of negative experiences in the household with them and also at the time my older sister had left left the house because of her falling out of her as well.

34:56So I had to experience loads of those negative experiences with just... Just on your own. Just with me. Obviously my dad at the time spends a lot of time working. What was his job? He used to drive, be a driver at the time. Driver for what? Cabs or lorries? Yeah, cabs, yeah. So yeah, that was that. I felt like I had a lot of resilience from a very young age. So it was just something that I just dealt with at the time. I didn't really have the most massive of effects, but it still wasn't that. Well, it's hard, isn't it? I can't find the lyric, but there's one where you talk about, you'll know what it is, where you say she wouldn't give you food or you had to ask her for food.

35:37Yeah. What's the lyric? I can't remember it, to be honest. Come on, don't make me find it. Seriously? I think I remember, I definitely remember speaking about that. How old were you when she entered the picture? I must have been, like, maybe between nine and eleven. Was she of Ghanaian heritage as well? Yeah, yeah, she came from... She came actually from Ghana. Right. Yeah. So she's culturally maybe a tiny bit different. Different, yeah. You know, in our culture... I've got the line, you ready? Yeah, yeah. My step-ma was a bitch. She used to make me beg her to feed me. Yeah. Told my pops that I hate her so deeply.

36:15Deep down he knew I didn't mean it. that's a very, like, strong lyric. Yeah, very strong lyric. But it's the truth, though. She used to make me beg her to feed me. Yeah. Because, you know, and this is actually quite funny for people that are, like, from Ghana. So in Africa, yeah, people, like, use, phrase their sentences differently, innit? So it's, like, in England, you know, like, if I wanted to ask you for something, I'd say, oh, can you pass me that pen, please? And then that's, like, very normal over here. but she would be trying to correct me and say like oh like you have to say please first innit so seriously yeah so like please you have to say please can you pass you defend you know what I'm saying and this is this would be over the food if you know what I'm trying to say so and that's not our culture and obviously because I was like quite intelligent and quite like a quite like firm as a child I would be like trying to like have the discussion like oh you know like over here like We actually say please, it's normal to say please last.

37:16You had a sense of self-possession and you wanted to make it clear that actually you hadn't necessarily made a mistake, that she was perhaps not au fait with the local customs and protocols. Yeah, because obviously that conversation is now happening and it's almost like it's coming across like a challenge on what she's saying, then there'll be like a standstill on the food, basically, which kind of gives the vibe that you want me to basically beg you for the food. to be honest. Yeah. It's not really that great. Is she still in the picture? Nah, long gone out of the picture now. Where is she now?

37:54She just disappeared one day. Come on. I'm being serious. She walked off? Yeah, I just came... I think I was just doing whatever I was doing, going to school or whatnot. And I just came home one day and then my dad was just like, oh, yeah, she's not going to be coming back. I don't know what happened. Hope she's OK. Yeah, I hope she's cool. I don't know what happened, though. It's proper random, isn't it? That's quite odd. How old were you? I think I would have been in year six. So about 11? Yeah, 11. So she wasn't around that long? No, probably maximum two to three years. And then after that, you were there, just you and your dad?

38:31Just me and my dad. But after that, I was actually taken to Ghana. Right, I read about this. Yeah. For about 18 months. Yeah. so I had an older sister and she was like at that time coming to the end of secondary school I was coming to the end of primary school and it was kind of like very like I don't know the best word to use like very energetic kids if you know what I'm going to say in terms of vivacious maybe a bit naughty naughty would be the best word to use so I can imagine obviously as a single parent it would have been a lot of like pressure so we just got like taken to Ghana on holiday We were told we were going on a holiday.

39:10Did you go with your father? Yeah. Yeah, the three of you. Me, my dad, my sister, and one of my female cousins, my little cousins. And then they just pulled a fuss on us. Go on. Yeah, just said, oh, yeah, go on a holiday. And then the guys were there. Obviously, you know, when you're young, you don't really have control of your passport or whatnot. So they just told us, oh, yeah, you're going to be staying there for a bit. On the last day, they were like, actually, you know, I said this is a holiday. well, it's actually, you're not going back. Literally. Wow. In Accra? In Accra, yeah. So they enrolled you in school over there?

39:49Yeah. Must have been quite a change of scene. How did you adapt? I didn't really adapt, to be honest. I just had to just get with it. I wasn't happy about staying there at all. I was proper upset. for, like, the first few weeks, maybe months. But then after a while, I just got in a groove of, like, just being there and learning how to just handle myself there. And your sister was there as well, and your dad stayed in Ghana as well? No, my dad came... He scarpered. So who were you living with, or was it a boarding school? I was staying with my grandma. Really? Yeah, my grandparents, yeah. What did you miss?

40:34I missed literally everything, because one day I was just, like, in England, doing like what I'm used to. I had all my friends and all of a sudden I just got on a holiday and then bam. And now you have to make new friends and not only just new friends but new friends which are different, have different approaches culturally. But I think it was like a very character building experience at such a young age, definitely. How did your mum die, if I may ask? I don't even know, you know. Really? Yeah, I don't really know. I've never really been told. You haven't been curious to ask? No. My sister, like, I had a brief conversation with my sister because she was a bit older when it happened and she, like, told me a few details, but I just, I can't really remember.

41:20I didn't really, like, hold on to it if you know what I'm going to say. But, no, the story that I was told was that we just went to a party. Obviously, I was a baby at the time. Went to a party and then she just, like, just collapsed or something and she got home. Really? Yeah. Just, like, very sudden. and unexpected. Do you have a sense of who she was? Do you have memories of her or not really? Nah, not really. I have very vague ones, but no, no. But she's obviously... There's some sense of her that's important to you. No, definitely. Do you have a picture of who she was in terms of having talked to other people about her, talked to your dad about her?

41:58What's your perception of... What does she sort of represent to you at this point? I just know that it's different, isn't it? I know like every like route that I've had to take has had to be different based on what happened back then so it's something that just like is in my mind kind of everyday just like how things could have been if things was like different you know what I'm saying but yeah I see it as a positive thing at the same time yeah it's that good motivation

42:49Shall we talk about how it was that you began getting into trouble? I'm sorry to be so basic, but you were obviously intelligent. I imagine you did quite well at school, did you? I actually don't know how well I've done. I forgot, like, my results and that. But when I speak to my dad a few days ago, he said I got quite a decent amount of GCs. You don't really remember? Nah. Jeez. Did you go to school, like, in terms of... You were fairly regular with your attendance? Yeah. The only thing I really had an issue with, really, was, like, punctuality. Right. Yeah. I noticed, by the way. Not to make a big deal out of it.

43:27But you would get there in the end? Yeah, in the end, yeah. I made it to year 11 as well. Year 11? You caught your first case when you were 17? 17, yeah. Actual case, case, yeah. Can you say anything about that? Just, like, just young days, getting caught up and stuff. A lot of stuff escalate quickly, like, over the time without you realising, to be honest. Especially at such a young age. You go to school and things are happening. And also, I have a nephew as well. It's crazy because, like, when my parent, My dad used to tell me certain things when I was 13 and 12. He always used to tell me, we're just hanging around, this is how trouble happens.

44:10When you're just roaming around with no purpose, this is when trouble comes and that kind of stuff. I would just think, he's just cramping my style. Now that I have a nephew, he's a similar kind of age and I've had loads of experiences. I've had so much negative experiences based on me not following the advice I was giving to me, I can kind of like see it from a different viewpoint. It's crazy because growing up in a place that we grew up in, that was like the normal, that's like the culture. There's not really, when it's like summer holidays or when it's like a weekend, all everyone does do is hang around.

44:47Nowadays, in more modern time, when like parents are being more enthusiastic and doing different things, parents are like taking their kids to like, to football or to like ballet classes or like tennis, like horse riding. But obviously the place that we kind of come from is not really like, that is very selected for you. Like it takes a lot of effort to be able to rise above and do those kind of things to occupy a child's mind, if you know what I'm trying to say. So the state that I grew up in is just a very hanging around culture, playing football in the park, hanging around till late. Everyone's parents know each other.

45:23So there's kind of like a bit of trust in the environment, and even though it is dangerous, if not just to say, it's like, at least like, we can kind of see kind of thing and yeah, like I didn't really see, do anything other than hang around and go to school until like, I became a teenager. So obviously that came with like a lot of, learning a lot of things very early, seeing a lot of things very early, just yeah, very early. I mean, you can talk as little or as much about any of this as you want, right? And I respect the fact that this was the occasion for a lot of grief, prison time, personal risk.

46:06Lives were lost along the way. But nevertheless, obviously I've put a picture together based on my understanding. It's been contended that you got involved with County Lines drug dealing. I don't know if it was at 17 or later. and I think in the lyrics it sounds as though you're going up to Scotland, I guess, to deal. If any of that were the case, how much can you say about how someone gets involved in that? Is that just a sort of inertia? You drift into it because the elders are involved and they sort of feel like you can be helpful? I feel like everyone's experiences would be very different, to be honest, but I feel like in my personal experience I've never been one that likes to sit around and not do anything obviously like I'm a very proactive kind of person so obviously that can have lead to positive things and also lead to negative things at the same time so where it's like obviously we've grown up in this kind of environment and obviously our parents are doing our best but there's still like a lot of like things that feel like it's fallen short obviously as you get into like you get into a particular age and you feel like you can like do some things for yourself kind of thing and just like just like the brain just starts to like wonder and like come up with ideas and like of ways of like doing things so I actually was like from when I was in year seven I used to like sell um sweets in school I used to go to Morrison's yeah me and my group of friends and we would actually, like, just, like, hijack the whole shelf, yeah, and then go to school and I would make, like...

47:50Hijack it as in, you'd pay for it? No. You'd just nick it? Yeah, just nick it at the age of, like, 13. Couldn't they stop you? Nah. Why not? I just was good at doing it. You did it on the down low or was it more of a kind of ram raid? No, just, like, on the down low. Really? Yeah, but it's just, like, that's just, like, the naughty things kids, like, would do, like, when they're 12 and 13. that's like kind of an example of what I mean by like trying to make things a bit more comfortable for myself um at that young age and then like I'm saying that can kind of like be a positive thing obviously when it's innocent you're stealing some chocolates and sweets like you can get in trouble but it's not that big a deal but obviously things just like I'm saying the mind only finds ways to amplify things and yeah I think that's what just happened naturally with me to to be honest, I just got kind of carried away very early.

48:42Right. But when I'm looking back, I do wish, like, I had the knowledge, even though, like, I feel like things have changed quite a lot nowadays and it feels like there's much with social media and the internet, there's much more opportunities to invest your energy into, like, other things which you can be very vigorous with and ambitious with and, like, have a positive outcome very young. So I do wish I had the opportunity to explore that more, if you know what I'm trying to say. But at that time, it didn't really feel like that was really an option. I didn't really feel that there was much options.

49:20We didn't really know much other than the stuff that we actually knew at that time. Yeah, I get the sense that it was a circumscribed life and that you've talked about broad-order farmers being so self-contained that, you know, it was, you were a teenager before, you kind of went down to Oxford Street or kind of fully experienced the idea that there was a whole city on your doorstep that you could go out into. No. The first time I went to Oxford Street was when I was in college. Really? I think, yeah. I never went to Oxford Street before I finished second day school. Really? And when you went to college, what were you studying?

49:57I tried to study triple science. Actually, sorry, I went to Oxford Street from year nine. But it didn't end very positively. Go on. Yeah. It was just like naughty stuff again. You were trying to nick more sweets? Yeah. Jackets and stuff like that. Was it? Yeah. That's the first time I got like in trouble. Did they catch you? Yeah. And what did they do? Just like... Flapped on the wrist? Yeah, told off and all that kind of stuff. The case when you were 17, you got... Did you get sent away for that? No. I had a very unique situation where I was one of six co-defendants and everyone else that was in the situation with me got quite lengthy sentences and whatnot.

50:42And I got a hung jury. And, yeah, they just decided not to proceed. They said that they felt like they were satisfied. So, yeah, my dad always says to me that that was less more like a blessing, to be honest, and a bit of luck. queer. If you'd rather not say, I'm really conscious of being respectful of not kind of overdoing kind of a negative narrative, but there's a lot in your lyrics about in the music about prison. Prison was obviously formative in some respects. A time when you felt, I think, abandoned, right? Yeah. That your friends didn't come see you as much as you thought maybe they would.

51:21Yeah. Like when you first were sent away, can you see what it was for? So obviously the first time when I went away was for that trial that I said I had and obviously it ended up being able to walk away from that. But then after that it was just more like... So you were on remand for that? Yeah. So you didn't get a sentence? No, it was like a whole big fallout that had happened and a lot of people got dragged in. That's why there were so many different co-defendants. But that's the kind of silly things that happen when you're hanging around. You couldn't get dragged in on the roads and stuff that just get out of control and are very unnecessary, yeah.

52:02To do with the politics of the area? Yeah. So it was definitely an eye-opener. I learnt quite a lot. Where were you on remand? In Feltham. In Feltham. Which is Young Offenders. Yeah, a Young Offenders institution, yeah. So notwithstanding that, there was a few more cases, right? Can you say what the second one was? The second one was just more like for drug offences, that kind of stuff. And, yeah, everything going forward from there was a lot more stuff to do with that, to be honest. To do with what being in the lifestyle sort of... Yeah. ..as a hustler, can I call it that? Yeah. You talk about being, like, basically caught between two worlds, caught between being in a student, you're doing, like, Monday to whatever, Thursday at college, and then hopping on a train at Euston.

52:56Yeah. Which lyric am I thinking of? I think you're speaking of a lyric from Martin Sofa. Yes, that's from Martin Sofa, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got the lyric. It's a double life and I'm working two shifts. Monday I'm trying to be a college boy. Friday on a north-west train from Euston. Yeah, I fucked up my attendance. I put two and a blue with magic. That lyric, I don't know what that means. It's just all of that kind of terminology. It's people who know, know. Yeah, a little hustling terminology. I made it assemble like the Avengers. Pa always said, I'm useless. Is that your dad? Yeah. Meaning?

53:34My dad's a very honest and open person. Which is good, up to a point. Yeah, so I had a point when I'm doing negative things and all that kind of stuff, and he felt like he's tried to keep things under control. But obviously I reached a stage where I've never been disrespectful, or, like, a person that actually doesn't listen. But when I say, like, my enthusiasm was kind of, like, outweighing, like, everything else at the time. So he would just be open and honest and just, like, say I'm stupid or say, like, you're an idiot. You're going to end up here, you're going to end up there. He was worried for you, I imagine.

54:11Yeah. And what would he say? Everything. Like, literally every sort of, like, insult that you could think of. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I reached a point where it wouldn't even hit home, to be honest. I was so wrapped in what I was doing. I wouldn't even say that was stubbornness because I felt like I was really clued up for my age and things that was going on, but I just felt like I was just too determined on the path that I was on. It just takes me, basically. But you'd sent away, or this is before you were sent away? This is before. I'd been sent away before, but this is before, like, I had to go through, like, a lot of negative experiences and whatnot.

54:55But that's what the kids don't really know, and that's what I like to express through my music, because I say the same thing to my nephew as well. I say, like, a lot of my friends now that I speak to, like, every day that might not have had, like, the luxury of having, like, a complete U-turn or, like, being able to, like, find a way to navigate out of that kind of negative environment, but at the age when I was getting into it, it would have been the complete opposite. Everyone's enthusiastic and trying to get into it. So when I like to do my music, I feel like that's where I like to be as open and honest as possible because I like to speak my experiences but not in a way to glamorise it, but in a way to let people know, OK, I've done this but it had to get like this before.

55:44And I'm lucky that it's got like this, if you know what I'm trying to say. 100%. Can I say one more thing on this and then we'll move on. Yeah. Is that all right? That's cool. A 28-year-old Keith Dubé. Keith Dubé's like a... I guess he works with at-risk youth. You know, there's one narrative that suggests that drill music is obviously almost like journalism. It's describing what's going on and also it's a way out. It's a way out of the streets. It's a way of making money and changing your life around. And his comment was, that's a weak argument. The majority of drill is war cries. It's guys bragging about what they've done.

56:18they're not looking back on past crimes there's no growth they're talking about a shooting that happened last week he was asked well do drill artists are they still actively involved in crime 100 % because drill doesn't pay they're going to make a lot more money selling drugs than making drill I mean do you think without commenting to you specifically do you think there's anything in that that it's the idea that it's actually celebratory and war crimes no I feel like that's probably depending on what environment that he's in right now and how things are going for him as an individual. Like I said, things can always be looked at in a full circle.

56:52But also, let's say, for example, even if it was a war cry, a war cry and people are celebrating the negative things that are happening, without the draw music or the style of music, these negative things would be happening anyway. so all I feel that the music is doing is providing a pathway for people to escape and as as as many people as possible to attempt even give them like a chance to escape and that's what's happened like if you look at like all these different areas around London like council estates nowadays there's there's artists that whatever kind of music that they do whether they do rap music or drum music it's just like another field of people like changing their life and they can change someone else's life and and give people more of his motivation to change their life like people think music is only about the the actual art of rapping but people are becoming like businessmen like people are people are becoming managers yeah and then building their portfolio to manage other artists away from away from draw music or the war cries that he's speaking about So I feel like it's like a very, that's a very like narrow way of thinking that because if the drum music didn't exist, these positive changes in terms of what I'm talking about wouldn't be happening.

58:23Like we would have to find another way for it to happen. so I just feel like why not speak about what's going on in these environments that would be gone anyway and then have an avenue to motivate people have an avenue to to elevate people and give people opportunities like me for example I have I have two managers I have friends that also started doing music and they have managers and then they have people that they then influence are now to do music and they have managers and that's what, almost 16, 17, 18 people from a council estate that are thinking in a more positive way or making and earning a living and can help their families in a positive way and maybe someone can open a business or someone can do, like, I feel like it's making a big, it's doing more positive than negative, 100%.

59:14Are you making a good living? I'd like to believe so. Decent, yeah. Should we make it real for the people? I don't know. How much a year would you say? I don't know. It's a bit vulgar to talk about that kind of thing, isn't it? What about your chain? Should we talk about that for a second? Can we see it more clearly? It says one. It seems obligatory in interviews with you that we have to say that the name Hedy came from the shape of your head being like a 50p piece. Yeah, apparently. I don't know. Do you think that's really true? Nah. I feel like that's what it's like online, but that's not actually how the name came about, no.

1:00:01What would it have been then? So the name came about because I had an older cousin. He's very playful. So when I was young, especially when I was a bit smaller, I had quite a big head in it for my age, and he would just call me Hedy in the house. And he was trying to wind you up, but maybe in an affectionate way? Yeah, just like, you know, like, just siblings. Yeah, like ginger or specks. They used to call me glasses or specks. Oh, in the house? Yeah, well, yeah, people in the area, sure. Yeah, so just like, obviously he would call me that and my sister would start calling me that all the time.

1:00:36And then after a while, then, like, family, friends, then it just, like, spreads out into the community and then it just stuck with me. How much would that chain be worth? Because it's got a lot of diamonds on it. Yeah, it's quite expensive.

1:00:54That expensive. Should we put a number on it? I don't know. I don't know if you should, to be honest, but... It's probably more than 100 ,000. Potentially. In the streets they call, like, what, a thousand, is it a band? A bag. A bag, a band. It's probably more than 100 bags. Yeah, probably. Might be 200 bags. I really had to kind of go deep into the slang. You know, thank God for Genius, right, the website, because actually you can just look up the song and figure out what it means. Otherwise, I'd be lost. Dinger? Dinger, yeah. What's a dinger? It's basically like a rubbish car. Yeah. Like a car that's cheap.

1:01:46Yeah, like a rust bucket. Because it's not a whip. In other words. Yeah.

1:01:54Corn. Corn. It could be used in quite a few different ways. I think we both know what it means. It could be used in quite a few different ways. But, well, if you're popping corn, it's a bullet, isn't it? Not really. Isn't it? Because corn, like, for example, if I say, oh, you're holding corn, and let's say we're in a room full of people when, like, someone keeps running jokes on you or, like, keeps taking the mick out of you. I say, oh, you're holding a corner. He's, like, calling you. Really? Yeah. Niz? That's like the era where I grew up. Do you know the derivation of that one, where that comes from?

1:02:35Just made up. It's because I think N17 looks a bit like... That's why I was told. Niz written down. There's no way. Isn't it? That's why I was told. I've never heard of that one before. Really? That's a new one to me, yeah. Oh, jeez. Fuck. Well, I don't think I've used that term before, though. That's not really my term that I was using. No. Yeah. I don't think you've used it. Yeah, that's, um... I think that's... I've heard other rappers say it before. That's just, like, oral sex. There you go. I never knew that one. Serious? Yeah. How's your energy? Are you all right, by the way? I'm great. OK, good.

1:03:12So this is a line that jumped out. The street's going to miss me. This is off the new album. The street's going to miss me. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. It's just me and you, so buckle up. We've got the whole world to conquer. Do you have a special someone in your life? Yeah. She likes when you make arrangements on a Friday. So you've really been listening to the song then? Yeah. I could relate to that. You don't want to be too passive. As a man, you've got to be... She's like, well, do something special. Like, I've got dinner reservations. You know, the whole evening's planned. It gets a bit hard though Because you know when I get wrapped up with work and travelling and all that kind of stuff Sometimes I don't really, I just want to come home and chill I don't really want to like Be out eating and all that kind of stuff What do you like to do for fun?

1:03:58I don't really have fun you know I need to start having more fun Seriously? Yeah But what do you do to relax with her? Just a few holidays Travel quite a lot actually When you're spending quality time Let's say in the UK What does that look like? Nothing. Nothing? Yeah. It's a bit, like, hard to, you know, have quality time in the UK. I mean, honest. Really? Because of your history? Not fully, because obviously there's, like, I can go, like, out there. Like, there's loads of places that I go where people never really expect me to be, but... Yeah, go somewhere, like, really just bougie, like...

1:04:38Yeah, by, like, a lake or something. Chiswick or something. I wouldn't go to Chiswick. Why not? It's not really, like, bougie enough. Really? What's super bougie then? Notting Hill? Kensington? Nah, it's all too sweet for me. Mayfair, Park Lane? You mean like an out-of-town spa, country club scenario? That sounds a little bit more like my kind of style. Out-of-town country club, a lake somewhere, like a small village. Really? Yeah, just like, that's what I find peaceful. Because everything else is always hectic. Like, when I go to work, it's hectic 24-7. so I wouldn't want to have a day off and then be in May 15th.

1:05:16Why would it be hectic at work? If you're just recording, it wouldn't be that hectic, would it? Because when we're recording, we're recording in the city and we're thinking about security protocols and we're thinking about everything else day to day. Even when it comes to travelling as well, there's still security protocols as well. I'm just trying to get full measure of this. For you to go out, just now, if you wanted to go for a walk around, And, you know, we're in central London right now, not far from Trafalgar Square. You'd think twice before just going for a walk? Yeah. Oh, I could just go for the walk, but I have to understand that, OK, obviously I've got quite expensive jewelry, number one.

1:05:56And at the same time, people probably want to take some pictures because of, like, they might be fans of the music or whatnot. So is the slack. And that could escalate. It could. It could just be annoying. It's not peaceful. It's just like, if you want to go for a walk, you want it to be a peaceful walk, doesn't it? Do you, you have a, when you said expensive jewellery, we talked about the chain. Is there a watch as well? Yeah, I got a watch as well. Is that rose gold? Yeah, rose gold. What do you think of that watch? I like it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's black plastic. Serious. You could get that for about, I think it's 14 pounds, maybe.

1:06:33It's a classic, though. It's very classic. And if you lose it, you can buy another one. Yeah, literally. Right Straight like It's not even You don't even It's not even annoying Yeah Really Well you have to reset the time That's annoying It's not that annoying Really Um Are you tight with other rappers Um From the UK scene Um Does it work like that Or do you tend to keep to yourselves I keep to myself quite a bit Obviously I know Stormzy a little bit Yeah Um But you wouldn't say to Stormzy Come over and we can play Scrabble or something. Nah. It doesn't really work like that. I don't know. I actually don't really know if it works like that to be honest because there's never something that I've...

1:07:17That's not your style. There's never something that I've like attempted to do to be honest. But you know the thing with me here is like I have like I feel like I have like trust issues in terms of like not in terms of like people but I just like I've had loads of situations in the past where like I've felt let down by people who felt betrayed and like I don't and I feel like when you're building that close relationships with people you're almost giving them that power to be able to betray you or make you feel betrayed again so I like to like even though like I can like appreciate relationships and like like friendships and everything I don't I don't really like to get too deep into that kind of stuff because I can't really control other people's actions and what other people do.

1:08:04But what do you think that is, what's that rooted in? Is it the feelings of like the family growing up or is it to do with going away and not and feeling abandoned? you're just a bit of everything when I was young obviously all the family stuff when I went away I've had situations where I felt let down and that kind of stuff and I feel like when you really have expectations of friendships and expectations of people that's giving them a leverage to let you down if you're going to say so I just feel like I put myself in a place where I just can't be surprised by anything yeah that's hard well and with the level of success you have you can't always trust people's motivations that's the other part of it yeah i try not to think too deep into it though not day to day like so i don't let it affect my day or anything because i feel like that's how people like could almost borderline like start to overthink and yeah get into like a bad space mentally so at the start of my career i used to think about like that kind of stuff a lot more like about trusting people like especially with like my work that i do and whatnot but now i just like i just free flow it but i just like to maintain that like distance a little bit to make sure that i could never feel let down basically um before we wrap up so what does the next so you're busy at the moment what doing mainly recording i've started recording again already you know for a new album no not for a new album just in general i had i don't really have like the best experience like even though I had a great time recording the last album I didn't have the best experience pushing it out why not with like with the record label and that kind of stuff what label is it it came out in Columbia right Columbia Records did you not feel they pushed it enough

1:09:59I felt like they pushed it but I felt like they didn't push it in the direction which I felt like I needed to push to make the best out of the album because you know like when you're working with like a major label and like you have a vision and they're very strong on their opinions and what they feel like the vision should be and like they have like the full control in terms of where they push the backing so that was very frustrating I'm sure so will you leave the label? I don't know I don't know I'm just like obviously right now I'm just like it's all the ball's ringing in my court do what I want to do but I'm just like Are you out of contract?

1:10:41Yeah, I'm out of contract now. So you could go where you want. Yeah. You could go independent. What do you think I should do? Oh, man, I think you should follow your heart. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But I do think in this era, albums are much less important than they were, and it's more about consistency of output and tracks landing and having impact rather than a single album. I think the album charts are slightly meaningless. Yeah, that's been the conversation that we've been having as well over the past couple of days with the people in question. It's weird, man. These kind of things fluctuate, innit?

1:11:19It's like, that could be the situation this year and then all of a sudden next year. All of a sudden next year, it's a completely different situation. So that's the music industry. Do you worry about, like, you know, as someone who's graduated from their old situation into a new one, but how do you connect with people in a world where people have been listening to you for games, you know, game spitting or lyrics about the streets. Like, what do you, what do you, how do you speak about what's on your heart in a way that speaks to people now? It's just about, like, it's about being true to yourself.

1:11:53Like, obviously, I know, like, what happens in my life personally and then, like, my way and my views and things are changing. Like I'm saying, I have a nephew now and I understand, like, the situations people might be coming up in a bit differently to, like, a bit differently to where I did before. So it was just about navigating that and just being true to myself as the journey continues. Being true about... But you were also talking about granular detail about your life, right? You're big on detail. You know, like we said, like a documentary maker. Yeah. So what are you documenting at this point?

1:12:24That's my aim, like I was saying before, is to be a lot more positive. I want to speak about... Even when I speak to my managers, that's what we've been discussing. It's like when I was making the album, because I was doing a lot of reflecting and whatnot, it almost felt like the first half of the album in the beginning was very depressing in some sort of way. But it's like, things can get frustrating in a different kind of way. Like, look what we just spoke about in terms of the record label and that. Like, we're eating better food. We're using nicer skin products. Yeah. So you could do an album about food and skin products?

1:13:01Yeah. And, like, we're travelling to better places and we're experiencing, we're driving different vehicles, we're experiencing loads of different kind of things. So I feel like these are the kind of stuff that I can touch on more. But also at the same time still remember where I come from and still touch on those important topics which people in those kind of environments would appreciate. It's about finding the sweet spot in the middle. Yeah, and maybe also the lives of the people who either fell along the way or incarcerated or in different ways who need to be remembered. Dude, I've taken so much of your time.

1:13:38What are we? We're at 10 to 3. I've probably taken the piss a bit. So thank you for bearing with the process. I really appreciate it. Do you feel OK? I feel happy. I'm fine. I have fun. And I'm really conscious of not overdoing the whole road narrative, but at the same time, it's just there. It has to sort of be dealt with. Yeah, it's kind of hard to bypass it, to be honest. Yeah. I really appreciate your willingness to dig into some of that. Yeah, man. It's cool, man. Is that OK? Yeah, it's cool.

1:14:24Hi, it's me again, Louis Theroux, back on my own this time. I hope you enjoyed that. I did. It's always a thrill talking to rappers because I'm a fan of rap. And it's sort of like I get to be inside the genre, you know, as opposed to just listening and kind of getting insights into it. And just to say, in case it's not obvious, like I'm a fan of his music. Hedy is a really talented... I hope it came across like he's a brilliant rapper, like rhythmically, thematically. It's real-life music, obviously, but his use of cadences, rhymes, rhythmic schemes is really exceptional. Yes, this is me, 54-year-old white man Louis Theroux, doing a blurb for Hedy One's raps.

1:15:09I don't think he needs that. Also, there's not that many interviews with Hedy One out there, so for him to talk openly about stuff that's kind of high risk or certainly like involves emotional exposure and maybe even some security exposure or it just feels personal right um that's not taken for granted i appreciated that um louis what would you get on a chain uh millie the producer has written i'm not a cheney cheney kind of guy i'm not that blingy I think you know that. I've also got a weird thing about metal jewellery. I don't like it on me. I don't love it on other people, but I live in a world where I don't get to make the rules.

1:15:53I know that's kind of a weird thing to say, and we can maybe unpack that on another occasion. If I had to have a metal chain, I suppose I'd... Would it be... If I want to... Ha-ha, I'd get King Louis on it or Louis T. Maybe I should get three-time BAFTA award-winning TV maker. That's the tumbleweed going by. Credits. The producer was Millie Chu. The assistant producer was Amelia Gill. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. The executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The presenter was... Shh, shh. I can't incriminate myself. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.

1:16:45Thank you.