S4 EP4: Leon Edwards on rubbing shoulders with Andrew Tate, the time Donald Trump saw him fight, and how MMA saved his life

29:16And that's what he did. But within that attraction of the masses, he's also trying to spill what he's trying to say to his group of fans and people, you know? So he hadn't been accused of the serious stuff that he's been accused of, no? Are we going to say anything about that? Was it friendly? Did you like his vibe? He was a normal guy. We had dinner. Was Tristan his brother then? Yeah, both. They always rolled together. Any others? He was a few girls with him. Talk about fighting. He used to do kickboxing as well. Yeah, to quite a high standard. Yeah, from what I believe in. Talk about just life and that was it.

29:55One of the separate ways. You didn't get any squiffy vibes? You didn't feel like... No, no, no, definitely not. It seemed all on the other side. Just a normal... Like going on with my mates. Just a normal night out. Okay. In Dubai. That's not going to make any clickbait. What else are we going to do? So the most recent one, the loss, Malal Mohamed. Yeah. You were saying it was five in the morning. One of the contentions is you were tired because of the time, because it was so early. Yeah. Is that true? Not physically tired, mentally. it's like you know when you wake up at like 5 in the morning to get up to go like run or train or whatever you feel you don't feel your best that's how I felt I felt like I was up at 5am to go train yeah yes that's what happens what's your view of the fight I mean the fight was it went 5 rounds yeah he kept taking you down yeah and it was said that he was punching faster that you some said that you looked a little slow yeah I felt it yeah I felt it I don't know I can't explain it to this day like what it was just felt like um could even like lean up to it I suppose like a sleep specialist to say oh what what's the best way to adjust my body because normally from my whole 32 years 33 years I've been getting up at like going to bed at like 11 o 'clock like a normal sleep schedule you know but this time I had to like completely switch my body from performing at high intensity at like 2 or 3 in the morning and sleeping in the day so it was just like a bit weird so I spoke to him and he said if you don't get a good night's sleep it slows your reaction time down a lot you know and yeah I felt it and that's what it was did you see Dana White's comments afterwards a little bit what one where he was saying well obviously it wasn't a barnstormer yeah I mean hmm you know it was what it was like he was sort of basically he seemed to be saying it was a boring fight.

31:58Yeah, it was a boring fight. For me, it was a fucking boring fight. And you were in the ring. Yeah, it was just like, I don't know why they did it. They did it before at 5 a.m. when Bisping fought in Manchester. And I don't get why they did it. Because realistically, to build a sport in Europe or over here, it should be on prime time for the UK fans to enjoy it, to build a sport up more. Not many people wait up to watch 5am cards. It wasn't in Vegas. Not many people do it. Can I record it? I record it and watch it in the morning. I don't really stay up no more to watch them. Were there people in the crowd?

32:38Yeah, it was sold out. Tens of thousands or whatever. Yeah, like 20... Must have been weird. 4 or 4 in the morning. Everyone comes out and it's like daylight the next morning. So strange. If it's not a rude question, How much did you get paid for the fight with Bilal Mohamed? In the mills. Do you get less if you don't win? Is there a win bonus? Not on my contract, but when I first started out in UFC, yeah. Half a pass. But I got to a level where now my money's my money, you know. The money's the money. Yeah, it's the same. Like one of the contentions about UFC, and I don't, I hope this isn't too controversial.

33:21You can dodge it if you want. Like one of the ideas that has been put about is that, oh, well, they've got such a strong hold on the sport that actually they can pay fighters more or less what they like and especially those that are coming up, right? Do you think there's anything in that? I mean, there's about what? There's about 500 fighters under contract, right? There probably is something within it, you know, but like I said, in boxing, if not signed under Eddie and Frank Warren, you find a white collar boxing shows anyway to get to a level where you can make your money right I feel like the UFC is pretty similar When you first started out what were you getting paid for those first couple of UFC fights?

34:02For my first fight it was like 12 and 12 or 15 and 15 something like that like 30k For each or there was 15 per fight and then you got all the fees like you've got to pay your coaches and managers and whatnot, support personnel. So you can't really make a living. No, but at the time I was only like 20 years old. So to get like, I fought three times a year. So let's say I made like for the year, 150 grand. At 20 years old, I was paying all your fucking fees and everything else. At the time it was the right money. At the time. At the time it felt okay. At the time it was okay, you know, because I was young, I was excited to be there.

34:42I was I was happy to work my way up to get to where I'm at now you know I think there's some ex-fighters who are suing UFC is that right yeah what's that all about for similar the same thing when I play in the market you know and they say like there's back pay to all these fighters that fought between whatever it was yeah 2010 and something yeah when the first UFC first started off I think yeah and to the tune of like I think one point something billion yeah I don't know what's going on that case at the moment. I really looked into it, really, so I don't know. But you feel well, you feel well paid?

35:21He does, you know, like, you always want more money. Like, everyone does. Would you make most of your money from fighting or from sponsorships and deals? Both, both, I feel. It's not the one or the other? No, no, I feel just both. I was fighting, you get paid more for fighting, but my sponsorships is also good, good money, you know?

36:04Okay. I think we should talk about... I mean, we've touched on this, but kind of coming up and you know you've got this extraordinary origin story to do with being born in Jamaica and then um well better that it should come from you really like basically what was your situation um I was born in Kingston Jamaica um my mom had me she was about 15 years old 16 years old um my dad at the time was involved in in gangs and um He became one of the leaders in my, we call it lanes, which is basically like streets. They called him the general? General, yeah. Or just general? General, yeah. So growing up as a child, I've always known this, like my daddy was.

36:58How was it explained to you? It wasn't explained to me. It's just what it was in the area, the way they treated him, the way they treated me, the way they talk of him, that's what it was. And at the time, when you're young, you kind of take pride in it. You know, my daddy's who he is and you kind of like walk with that, that in you, you know, and yeah, we sadly got murdered when I was 13, you know. But first, the first thing that happens is he moves to the UK, right? Yeah, so he immigrated to the UK. Had your parents split at that point? Yeah, yeah, there was split at that point and he immigrated to the UK on his own got remarried in the UK and then he brought over me my mom and my brother Fabian which competes now in a mixed martial arts as well he's your younger brother younger brother yeah Fabian um so he brought us brother by the same mother same mother same father um brought us to Birmingham um and then yeah we've been in Birmingham ever since was he living in London In London?

38:02Yeah, in Croydon. In London. Yeah, yeah. So he, that was... But even though your parents had separated, he brought your mum over. Yeah, which is... How does that work? I don't know. I don't know how to explain to his wife that I'm bringing my ex-girlfriend to another... Was he still making visits? Was he still... Yeah, he was still involved in my life. And in her life? It wasn't like she was one of his significant others. That was probably his first love. And he came to the UK for a better opportunity. And he thought, I can't leave my family. Most men would, you know, if I was leaving my family in Jamaica and have a new family in the UK.

38:39But he thought, I ain't doing that. I have my family in the UK. And also bring my family from Jamaica and give me the opportunity to achieve something, you know. And he was still involved in, you know, stuff he wasn't supposed to be, right? Yeah, 100%, definitely, definitely. Which means what? Like, was it, I mean, forgive me if this is intrusive and if you can't talk about it, obviously I respect that. Like, he was dealing drugs? Drugs, guns, I can do a lot. Yeah, he was involved, you know. Like I said, I grew up knowing this. You know, this is just like, is what it is. You know what I mean? Was he in your life much?

39:15Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Up to the point where he died, yeah. Coming over to the UK from Jamaica, was that a big change? Yeah, it was freezing. We came in the winter. It was cold. I remember seeing Lots of white people And I thought That's mad You know I was like 9 years old Obviously he had Like a different language He spoke patois Yeah So he had like Broken English And when he went to school He just like You get fighting in school Because all the kids Just kind of like Pick on you Because he spoke Patois Yeah Really Can you still speak patois A little bit A little bit If I speak the Jamaican I can We've talked like By myself It's hard But if I go like The Jamaican person I can do it Therefore I'm not going to speak patois Let's go I would love to throw some

40:05Yeah I listen to a bit of reggae so I'm on the verge but I don't think I'm going to do it I don't think I'm going to do it guys It'd be too cringe You said your dad got Killed right Yeah Can you remember where you were When you heard the news At the time we were living in Aston in Birmingham In like a two-bedroom house. It was like two, three in the morning. My mum got a phone call. I was in my room, my brother. I was through the walls to hear her crying. There's never good news at like two in the morning. They just came in and told us what happened. I've read that you said that at the time it was oddly unemotional, that you feel it was maybe not as shocking as you might think it would be.

41:01Is that right? Yeah. That was shocking because you've got to think I grew up around this like every day. I've seen, when I was young, I've seen a lot of people die, you know what I mean? From gang violence and from being on street stuff, you know. I've seen a lot. In front of you? Not in front of me, but I've known a lot of people that have been killed by the gun or by stabbing or something. In Jamaica? In Jamaica. So when I was young in Jamaica, the beef was basically garrisons versus garrisons basically so this gang versus that gang and they literally like rose apart from each other so that's where I I've seen a lot you know not just me the whole community this is normal it wasn't because your dad was doing what he was doing no because even he's doing what he's doing but so is the other gang as well they're trying to kill them they're trying to kill them so just like this is what it is.

41:56It's an accepted part of life. Yeah, for life. And that was the norm. You know, when it's time for... But it goes for like seasons. One, it goes for that part where like, there's that war's going on. Then there's seasons where there's nothing going on. You just have a child who can enjoy your life. And then there's seasons where there's like active war going on. And that environment breeds that kind of thing. you know just there's not many poverty ridden area where there's no crime you know because if you can't feed your family and your your kids and you see your kids starving and you have to do something you know and there's no opportunities there's no signing on to get money there's no government help there's nothing you like see if you go get it or that's it you know so growing up like this you kind of like it's weird because i got a little boy now that's like 11 years old and I couldn't imagine him even like knowing that, you know, but I was around it all, you know.

43:00So when he did get murdered, I was upset obviously because he died, but I don't know, it's hard to explain it. It's one of the things that you kind of like, you normalise stuff like that, you know, and it's mad, it's crazy, you know. Then so when you come to Birmingham, it's pretty different, but nevertheless there's obviously still issues, there's things going on. You've spoken a little bit about getting slightly involved. I don't know how you would put it, but there was a time when you might have been at risk of following the path that your dad had been on. Yeah, definitely. I think once my dad died when I was 13 years old, I kind of went down that same similar path, you know, getting involved in gangs and drugs and stuff like that, you know.

43:51Yeah. With friends in the area? Friends in the area where I grew up, friends in school. At the time in Birmingham, there's like a big, there's like two massive gangs, like Johnny's and Burger Bars. There's like these two big gangs. The Burger Boys, did you say? And the Johnson's. And the Johnson's crew. At the time back in the day. Those are two gangs. Are they black gangs, white gangs? Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All black and... And were you affiliated with the Johnson's or the Burger Boys? I weren't affiliated as much with them. John says, because my school, where I went to in Aston, was where it started.

44:25So obviously, he was around it. When he was leaving school, they'd all be outside school, hanging out and robbing kids and stuff like that. They were teenagers or older men? You got like... Or everything. Yeah, everything. Right. So you were saying how you kind of got slightly beguiled into it. Yeah, going down the wrong path. Your dad had died, is that what you said? And then what happened? I think I was kind of like blaming the world for what happened to my dad and I was going on a similar path before I was getting involved in stuff like that. Similar stuff that he was getting involved in. Age 13, 14, 15?

45:0215, 16. 16. Yeah, yeah. I got involved in mixed martial arts at 17. So yeah, so I feel about from 13 to about 18, I would say, you know, he's kind of on the wrong path. Yeah. Did you get arrested? Been arrested, not been to jail. Yeah. Been arrested like carrying knives and stuff like that, but I've never been to like prison.

45:26Right. I mean, because actually like fighting is fighting, but a knife is obviously next level. Yeah, 100%. I feel like not like carrying knives, it's our insecurity, right? It's like, you don't know how to protect yourself with just your hands, you know? So I feel like most kids that do it, to do out of fear. Like someone else is carrying a knife, I need to carry one. Or if a fight breaks out and he's got a knife, I haven't, I'm fucked. You know what I mean? So it all depends on the individual, the reason why to do it. But I think most of it is our insecurity. That's it. Were you known, leaving the knife to one side, were you known as a good fighter?

46:09Yeah, yeah. At what point did you realise, actually, maybe I've got something? I'm from school, you know. I've always, I'm the one that always, I'm the friend that like, if you're next to me, you're in a fight because you know I won't leave you, you know. So I had the name Rocky from school. Your fight name was Rocky? From school, yeah, yeah. And then it translated into MMA, you know. Crazy, yeah. Would you ever go looking for a fight? Like a recreational fight, you know, like a fight for fun? A good straightener. Nothing for fun. A straightener? We call it a straightener. Go on. That's interesting.

46:48That's what it is. A good straightener. A good old straightener. Sometimes. Meet you after school for a straightener? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Am I the only one who doesn't know about this? Why was it called a straightener? Just a straightener. Just one-on-one. You versus me. One-on-one. No weapons. Just hands. And just in a field, in a park. And go out. Yeah. I'd never had a straightener. never too old to start. I'm ready for a straightener for the over 50s. And then would you, what would you, like you would have rounds or you just go at it? No, it'd be like, it was something that sets it off. Can you remember any reasons why you would have had a straightener?

47:31I don't know. It could be anything. Or a postcode over. Could be over a postcode. Yeah, or a postcode. The whole thing about postcodes is so weird. Yeah, it is stupid. It's weird because It's literally just a way for people to deliver post You know what I mean You know what I mean And then it's become like something that you would kill and die for Yeah which is fucking That is so messed up And it's weird because And it's just not even like It's like NW6 till I die Yeah Dude that is just NW6 You know what I mean Like growing up now Like with a wider view in the world It is weird But at the time I truly believed it Like you truly What was your postcode?

48:10I grew up at Edithton, so it's like B23. Did that mean something, B23? Yeah, because it's like your area, right? Which is weird because my mum... Have you got a tattoo of B23? No, I'm not committed to it. Not to tattoo it on my skin. But at the time though, when you're living in it, like you actually believe what you're saying to yourself. What happens if you move? Then do you switch allegiances to the new postcode? Nah, no, no, no. Your friends are your friends then... You're a friend of a till you die. So it's just you happen to be residing in the wrong postcode, undercover, doing a deep cover.

48:47Looking back now, it's fucking crazy. But when you're younger, with a young mentality, and your friends are doing the same thing, and that's your environment. I think you're more likely to be a protector of your environment. It's the same as Jamaica, you know? There's people that have died over, they probably don't know the reason why it started, and they've died over it, you know, and so, yeah. So when you, in terms of getting out of the lifestyle, insofar as you were in it, right, how did you kind of, was there a moment, was it going to the gym or what was the sequence of events that led you to sort of straighten up and fly right?

49:26The gym, I've been going to the gym, you know. One day, I got arrested one day and then there was a gym getting built in the area. When I got arrested, my mum was like crying. Was that for the knife? That arrest? Yeah, one of them, yeah, yeah. How many times were you arrested? A few times. Always for a knife? Knife or fighting. Really? I'm going to ask you a question. Yeah. You don't have to answer it. No, I didn't. No. What? You said, do I stab somebody? How did you know I was going to ask that? Because that's all the questions leading after that. No.

50:02Would you say if you did? Yeah.

50:10that must be a load off your mind in a way like you have to carry that yeah 100 100 definitely have you ever badly hurt someone um i've been in situations you know um yeah i've been in situations not sure if that's an answer

50:31you've been in situations like i said this is the environment you grew up in and your limited mentality on life. I don't mean to sound, it sounds all weighted in the moment. I don't mean to sound like you've... I've been in situations, you know. Where you've had to hurt someone quite badly. Protect myself. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a free mind. Good, you've got a clear conscience. Clear conscience. So you would say you got arrested, then you said we were going to get to the gym. Your mum was crying. So yeah, there was a gym getting built in my area, in Addison, called UTC, Ultimate Training Centre.

51:04And she was like, oh, you should try this out. Like, try out. You want to do kickboxing, let's go try this gym out. Went up there and inquired about membership. It was£60 a month. At the time, I knew she couldn't afford£60 a month. And I also pay for the house and for the kids. And yeah, somehow she did it. She paid because she felt... To save her son's life, right? To save her son's life. Just the way the path you're going down. She could see it happening. Yeah, as an adult, now if my son getting involved in something I'm able to see it because I've got years of experience you didn't have any convictions though right you'd only been arrested yeah yeah never nothing went to trial or no no I've been to court and stuff but I've never I've always beat the charge beat the case yeah yeah yeah so I feel like for her she's just thinking out like what more can I do you know like to get my son to fix up because at the time when I was getting in trouble so was my brother you know he was also falling down the same same path path as me you know he's like copying his big brother to um be involved and you got to think when as an immigrant when you when you're a single parent household your mom has to work um when she works there's a lot of time for you to go out go out because you're at home by yourself you know you weren't at that time it wasn't to do with dealing like you weren't like on the on the career part it wasn't like at the start of like oh well maybe we can sell a bit of product yeah in the local area um no not at that stage no we got we got to that stage but no i'm at the time like so young 14 13 14 15 but then later on it became more like because they didn't want you want money you want you need a bit of money you get a hook up you want clothes you want track suits you want trainers you want you know i mean um and then as you do what you can do to provide, you know, to help your mom out as well.

52:58Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So then you got, your own record is described, you say, I can't get the quote exactly right, but it's along the lines of that UFC became your dad or MMA became your dad? Not my dad. You became like a father figure in a way? It became a positive reinforcement in my life, you know. I feel like when I got into mixed martial arts, the the voice that I'd probably give to a son that I'd give to my son I was getting that from mixed martial arts Was there a specific trainer? I think there's one guy that stands out more than others which is his name was Mark he was the owner of the gym at the time he was he was the one that like saying to me like you're good you can do you can do it you know and at one point he was paid to like take me around the world like to Vegas to watch UFC and other places that, when I was young, I think, Out of his own money, he took you to Vegas.

53:59Out of his own money, yeah. Because of the promise that he saw in you? Yeah, yeah. Had you started fighting at that point? I was, but I was like an amateur, you know, but you could tell from how good I was doing in amateurs, how good I am, you know. Was that your first time in the US? First ever time in the US, yeah. That must have been quite an eye opener. Yeah, it was crazy. It was mad. I mean, Vegas is weird enough, even if you've lived in America, let alone, you know, coming from Birmingham. Yeah, I know. It's coming from Jamaica, then going to Birmingham, going to Vegas. You're just like a...

54:36It's like Oz. Yeah, yeah. It's like... It blows your mind. It's like, wow. It's like the capital of the American subconscious, I sometimes think. You know, all of those appetites, you know, money, sex, You know, whatever that fighting, entertainment impulses. All in Vegas. It's all there, you know, with those extraordinary buildings, pyramids and skyscrapers. Was it a UFC fight that you saw, did you say? Yeah, one of my teammates is Vaughn Lee. He was fighting in San Jose. So we flew to Vegas to train or something. And then from Vegas, we drove to San Jose. That's quite a long drive. A long, long drive.

55:16So that was your first exposure to American culture and to a live UFC event. And then did you get this, you got the taste for it or you already had the taste for it? My first ever UFC event was in Birmingham. Really? So the UFC came to Birmingham back in the day. I was like 18, probably 19. I remember just going there and I was like on the nosebleeds like far. I was going there thinking I'd love to like to do it. You know, I'd love to like achieve it. and yeah, I came to the Wonderworld. So that was the big life-changing thing. How's your energy, by the way? Are we all right for time? You doing okay, Leon?

55:56Yeah, I'm good. I'm going to have a sip of water. Nah, it's all right. See you. I feel like we're covered. We're covered a lot of ground. Oh, God. Are you all right? What's so funny? It's not that funny. You got very dry humour, but I don't think you're being funny. Yeah, no, I'm sometimes. But that makes it funny. Yeah, I try to. I do my best. Donald Trump. We've done Trump. Who's the greatest, present company excluded, who's the best UFC fighter of all time? For me, I'll say Jon Jones. Jon Jones. He's fighting this weekend. My second best is Arsene Silva. Who's the worst of all time? Bilal. Bilal.

56:41Wow, trash talking. It was weird how he said, oh, I'm not. He said of you, he wasn't championed very long, so I don't need to fight him again. Did you see him say that? No. Yeah, Bilal said that. He disrespected you. He did. I'm stoking the beef. I'm going to set you on him. Yeah, let me get a go. Let you lose. Yeah, he's not all that. You want another piece of him or not really? Yeah, 100%. I'd love to run it back. Why wouldn't they just let you fight him again? No more time. Do you think it's not like boxing where they give you a rematch? No, no, no. But I'll literally run it back again, like next year.

57:16Where are you in the rankings? Number, so one. You think if I worked as hard as you, I'd be as good as you? You? Probably not. This guy. No, I think I was kind of joking, because I'm a 54-year-old man with a big nose. They say a big nose is a liability in Congress. Yeah, you get broken quite easily. Chris Eubank told me that. It'd be easier to break. Like the straight nose is like, snap straight away, you know? Steady on. That sounded like a threat. You sounded like a... Did you just threaten me? Steady on. Yeah, you just threatened me. You'd snap my nose like a twig. Not me. I'm saying it's easier.

57:55No, someone would. Yeah, yeah. You work hard. I think there's more to it than that, though. There's some physical endowments, though, aren't there? Like speed, agility, strength. I don't know. Are you conscious of having a physical skill set? I think naturally I'm like a great athlete anyway. You know, like in school is to play football, basketball, athletics, travelling. To quite a high standard. Yeah, running, sprinting. Football, all in school. Yeah. Yeah. But you were basically pretty good in all the categories. Yeah, in all sports. I've always been athletic. Do you train when you're not building up to a fight?

58:29Just like, did you train today? I'm going to train when I get back tonight, yeah. What will you do? Tonight I'm just going to do a run. Run and just lift. then tomorrow with some weights yeah what can you bench I don't really bench as much it's more just like I can bench no you can't what can you bench wait steady what did you what can you bench you said no you can't I heard you I said I can bench you've never had a fight before in your life is it I've never had a fight never no what can you push what are you benching benching what do you think I don't know what is benching is benching is it when you lie down and you push things up like that.

59:11It's chest, isn't it? I realise I'm not an athlete. No, it's fine. It's okay. I think, I actually think, but I don't think training is just for athletes. I think everyone should train. Do I sound defensive? How many push-ups do you think you could do? Within just... Within? Like, before maxing out? I don't know. Well, you've never got that far. Like a thousand? Nah, now a thousand. Without stopping? Yeah, without stopping. Probably like a, I don't know. 100, 100 or something? What? That's a lot. I think I could do 30. Go on. Do you want me to? Go on. You cannot do 30 press-ups. But it wouldn't be on time.

59:46You'd be able to see it. You cannot do 30 press-ups. You think I can't? You cannot do 30 press-ups, no. Really? I'm not doubting you, but can you do 30? Can you see me if I do it? You're not doing 30. Nah. I said 20. Yeah, it's cycles. That's his legs, though. Go, let's go. Chest to mat. One. Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, ten more. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Let's go.

1:00:43I give it a

1:00:47that was so easy you're getting it over that was so easy

1:01:07OK, so here I am, back in my normal home, the beautiful Spotify studios. What did you think? Impressed? What was striking listening to it was how low Leon's estimate was for what he thought I could do. Did he say he thought I might manage 10? So that was obviously satisfying, doing 35, and that's a PB, incidentally. I think in the moment of adrenaline and wanting to show off, I got some kind of super strength in it. It powered me into an extra five. So if you said 35 push-ups, then mark your card correct. For those keeping LTP bingo cards, mark Andrew Tate and Trump. I don't know if Trump's actually one of the entries on the card, is it?

1:01:56And Woody Allen. I did mention Woody Allen even though it went nowhere there's me being glib about serious things which is kind of my brand a quick clarification I mentioned that some ex-UFC fighters are suing the UFC for having a monopoly over the MMA market at the time of recording a settlement of$375 million is subject to court approval we'll include a link in the show notes for more information about that MMA deaths were mentioned There have been at least seven fighters killed in the ring or cage during MMA events since 2019, and another nine more have reportedly died at unsanctioned cage fighting cards at the same time.

1:02:39I think that's it. Credits. The producer was Millie Chu. The assistant producer was Amelia Gill. The production manager was Francesca Bassett, and the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify. You