S4 EP7: Sean Evans discusses his upbringing in Chicago, interview techniques, and no-go guests on ‘Hot Ones’

28:00but then that can always be kind of a challenging thing yourself or be careful what you ask for a situation you know have you ever sat down with an icon of yours and you know it can either go really really well uh and you can feel fulfilled by that or it can feel kind of flat and empty and maybe be filled with disappointment you know that kind of uh be careful what you wish for meet your idols thing so I'm always on the fence about that yeah what does a disappointing guest look like um to me i think hot ones is a show that to do it you kind of have to want to do it and i do think that every once in a while there's someone who's convinced to go on by a publicist the studio or whatever and then they kind of get into it and usually sometimes we can win those people over in real time you know like around the second or third you can see their shoulders drop when they have the same perception you have where it's like oh i thought this would be like a Brodown wing interview show, but it's kind of not.

28:56So sometimes you can get that kind of out of them, but sometimes you can't. I'm actually surprised that a clash of personality or a clash with the format doesn't happen more frequently. But every once in a while it'll happen and that'll be like, oh, it's kind of a bummer. Because I think when you do something, you have some sort of plan for how it's going to go. And if it goes as well as you have planned, then that's a thumbs up oftentimes to go better than your plan two thumbs up and then every once in a while it'll go a little worse than you planned and then you'll kind of get into the lab and figure out you know i personally i kind of always put that kind of thing on me you know i just kind of think that's more my fault than the guest wow you're such a man you've got a nice attitude and and i think that that's a big part of um of the success of the show and it's sort of what you were saying earlier, which is that in a weird way, and I've said this in relation to my documentaries, is that actually you sort of have to prioritize reality over the product.

29:56Like, in other words, number one is making sure everyone is okay. Do you know what I mean? Right. Kind of like you're treating people like human beings and not as a means to an end. And then things tend to go more smoothly, if that makes sense. I 100 % agree with that. But yes, you just you try to create a connection, a natural rhythm. And I think, too, in an interview, a sense of trust that you're trying to build and then you're doing it in this very bizarre context of it being on a TV show. And, of course, someone that you're meeting for the very first time and just trying to create this natural, genuine energy between the two of you.

30:34I think that's fundamental that you have to approach it that way first. And if it doesn't go well, it doesn't go well. Um, but shockingly, you know, uh, usually goes well. Now, as, um, a bit like hot ones, as the podcast goes on, the questions get spicier. Did I mention that? No, but I like it. I just, I just made that up. Would you book Trump? Uh, you know, I'm not that enthusiastic about a political candidate. And the reason for that is because, you know, it's not really the best format for a politician in that you are naturally rooting for the guests to get through the wings, you know, and it is a show that I think celebrates more than it scrutinizes.

31:21and it kind of almost has to be that way because if you know you're closing the walls in on the guest in like sort of a capital j sense and then you're like all right now on to the bomb beyond insanity you know like to keep a guest engaged in that i think there has to be like a certain sort of uh going up this mountain together thing that i think the audience also feels uh so in that way the format I think does detract from the gravitas that I think is required of interviewing an official, a presidential candidate, a sitting president, a former president or whatever. That said, the views would be crazy.

32:02They'd be off the charts. Yeah. Again, this question, we're going up the Scoville scale. You ready? Yes. I'm right here with you. I think you pulled one episode, right? Maybe there's more, but the one I'm aware of is Mario Batali. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he was subject to allegations of, I guess, serious sexual misconduct. But there are a couple still on there. Russell Brand is one. Yeah, yeah. Another one is Shia LaBeouf, I believe. Yeah. What is behind the decision-making process when you decide who stays up, who comes down, who you can book, and so forth? Well, generally speaking, I think once you put something up, you put something up.

32:44And I think it's sort of an unfair responsibility to think that like a like a talk show is somehow like responsible for someone all the way through with what they do. And I personally don't really like the idea of, OK, we're just going to completely erase somebody. We're going to take all the movies off of Netflix. We're going to take all the music off of Spotify and just pretend that none of this stuff ever existed before. Just in general, I think that that requires more. And should talk shows be the judge, jury and executioner in that sort of case? I do sometimes like think that, you know, you can have these conversations, but I don't know.

33:24There has to be some sort of specific policy. I don't think you can just in the moment be like, oh, well, like this person was in the news this week. You have to take that thing down. With the Mario Batali episode in particular, I think that it was one of those where we put it up and then that stuff all hit like within hours or like a day of the upload. And there were some other things that kind of led to us taking down that episode. permanently. But generally speaking, I think it's just it's a little dubious to like go and wipe your history and try to make some sort of pristine back catalog. I mean, even with you, I know, didn't they take down your like Rogan episode or something like that?

34:11Yeah. How did you know that? I did. Well, because I'm a fan of yours, Lou, but I know they did that. But it's like, I don't know. Some of these things just seem kind of arbitrary. And by the way, I don't think they I mean, I think I said this because I was on Theo Von's podcast and they took down my first Rogan episode, but I'm convinced it was because it was too boring. Maybe that, yeah. Although that seems weird that they would do that, but there was just nothing in that, you know, when you think of the full gamut of what Joe Rogan's podcasts were like, I don't know. I just can't believe there was anything that spicy in that conversation.

34:47Yeah, I don't know. But that's what I get worried about is like drawing those particular lines and then actioning on it and then I don't know like what does it even do or whatever you know like oh we're just gonna take all the movies off take all the music off pretend like no interviews ever happened you know in that way maybe there are these conversations that you can have but I do think you have to have some sort of specific policies set in place if you're gonna make those kinds of actions so I don't know that's the way that I look at it it's like if we put something out, I'd feel I'd feel weirder about like whitewashing history than I would about just leaving it up.

35:23What about the artist formerly known as Kanye? We've never shot with him. He seems impossible to put into a format. Like, I don't know how you could do like, all right, now we eat the first wing. Here's a question. Here's an answer. Now we eat the second wing question answer. Now we eat the third wing. And Kanye is somebody who, as an artist, probably has more mileage in my headphones than any other musician ever. Right. Fellow Chicago native. Right. Right. And when you were coming up, you know, as a young man, that would have been the soundtrack, I'm sure. For sure. College dropout. I remember, you know, when I was in college and it came out.

36:03So that way, he seems so impossible in that respect that I don't know if I'd be excited for that kind of opportunity. It'd be a tricky one.

36:41So one of the things that came up in the research was There's this Bloomberg story that says, quote, the future of the show is uncertain. Basically, they're saying that BuzzFeed has been trying to sell First We Feast, which is the parent company, above Hot Ones. I mean, one of the discoveries in researching this was that you are – how do I put this? I guess you're not like an owner of Hot Ones. It's not like Amelia de Moldenburg and Chicken Shop Date that you were in a sense brought on as a presenter slash writer host. And I don't want to put it bluntly, but in theory, they could fire you, right?

37:16100%. Replace you. And it's even been reported that, I don't know, like that you were, I don't know, in a couple of interviews, I picked up that there was an aspect of your relationship to the brand that felt not tenuous, but not wholly satisfactory in your eyes. Yeah, I mean, there's been challenging aspects of this throughout. And I guess the context that I can put it in is, you know, my entire career, the whole digital media industry has been kind of a bloodbath. You know, like I've described it as feeling like that final scene in Fight Club where all of the skyscrapers are falling down around you and the ground is always shaking under your feet, too.

37:54You know, and you just feel like it's only a matter of time before the floor gives out on you. And that's kind of been my whole experience my entire career. You know, like I came in after the peak and after all the dreams were sold on this kind of industry. And then now I'm here at its current state. But I think those pressures have made us resourceful, have made us do the most with the least. And I think have been a source of strength overall. Like I think that that I wouldn't change anything about being this rose that's grown in concrete or. Yeah, like this wouldn't be the first time, you know.

38:32Like, I've probably been threatened to lose the seat countless times, like, over this whole journey, which can be taxing. But I think the thing that I've always prioritized. Seriously? Unpack that. What does that mean, you've been threatened to lose the seat countless times? Oh, I think, like, every negotiation or, like, any new thing, it's just, you know, you can always hear that kind of like, oh, well, you know, you've been doing this for a long time. Be a shame if someone else did it. You know, like, there's always that. Who do you report to? me i'm kind of an island at this point you know what i mean but you'll just kind of hear things like through an agent or whatever um so i think but i think also too that's just like entertainment you know like if you have a show like yeah it's different now that people can kind of boutique become their own media companies but in a way you're straddling you're straddling two things here because obviously you've got the mr beasts of this world right who completely he's a self-created entity unless he's absolutely cancelled off of youtube well in which case you go to rumble But he is, in effect, unfireable.

39:33And I think a lot of people would look at you and think, hey, Sean's the same kind of deal. But it turns out it's not quite the case. There's this overhang of this relationship you had when you were coming up and you were hired onto the program when you were working at Complex, right? And so you own the brand in the eyes of the public. But behind the scenes, it's not quite that simple, right? No, and sometimes I look back and think about ways that I could have exercised leverage a little bit differently. But the problem is when you have that kind of pressure on you, the thing that's always been my North Star through all of this is just always feeding the show.

40:10And I stay true to that North Star, which has always pulled me through and saved me through these whole things, which is you can't stop a hit. Like as long as people like and watch this show, then I don't think you can stop it. It doesn't it's not in anyone's best interest, especially now in this day and age where it's so hard to have something that breaks through the idea that an industry could just purge hot ones just because or whatever. It doesn't make any sense to me. So overall, I think that there's a way for this to just work out well for everyone, set up hot ones for a fruitful future.

40:45And that's kind of what I'm focused on now, just episode to episode. And I think as long as you take care of each episode, each season, then it'll be fine on the other end of this. So that's kind of my mindset now. And one day I'll look like a dummy for having this thought process. But it's worked out for me for the last decade. If you went off with your partner in crime, Chris Schoenberg, right, and set up a – is he there with you? Yeah, he's literally to my right. and you said you started a youtube uh chat show called spicy wings right and they ate uh 11 wings you know what i mean you could in theory do that but you'd be starting with a subscriber base of zero and you'd have to rebuild from the ground yeah and that's the whole thing is just everything that we've put into building this and all that sweat equity and all of that you know i think just on the other side of this this is a unique time where it feels like something has to break But overall, I think it'll be fine.

41:43You know, we just had one of our biggest seasons ever, maybe our biggest season. When you said you, did you just say this is a unique time when something has to break? Did you just say that? Well, yeah, I mean, I just think that the challenges and the industry and whatnot, like it's just harder for things to stay exactly like this. I think that everybody thinks that, you know, like on both sides of it. I think like the media company, I think. In what sense? I mean, I don't know. like there's a lot of money owed you know so i think there's like a way in which it's it's challenged to keep us and you mean because buzzfeed the parent company buzzfeed is 100 million in debt right right right so uh and and hot ones is a big success and it makes 30 million a year according to this piece anyway largely from brand and licensing deals there's like sources and whatnot and all kind of spinoff stuff do you get a piece of that merchandise Nice.

42:35Yeah. Yeah. Nobody should cry for me in this whole thing. I mean, on this on that side of thing, obviously, you lose your job like this stuff that you built for, obviously, you know, but that stuff. Let it keep me up at night, like doesn't have to keep anyone else up. My life is good. Vivek Ramaswamy owns 8.9 percent of BuzzFeed. Did you know that? You know what? I read interesting updates in the in the paper all the time. He might be a good guest. He might be the new host. He might be the new host. But you feel happy. That's why I can't be. Are you happy? Yeah, I'm happy doing the show. I think this season has been my, like, this season, no joke.

43:22I get it. Basically, a bit like me, you just think, I want to make good shows. Just give me the next thing. I want to research this. And as long as you keep delivering great content, nothing much can go wrong. But what I will say is that there's people, there are obviously a lot of people who would be making a lot of money off the work that you're doing. And it would be a shame if you didn't enjoy, you know, your just desserts in terms of all of that. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, these are the conversations that happen. And I think the situation, I guess what's frustrating to me is it seems so transparent and obvious.

44:00but whatever processes like this they can be slow and ups and downs and kind of a roller coaster and everybody's uh playing a game you know it can seem like and then uh you'll just but but that's exactly how i feel is i just want to make good things you know what i mean so i don't get so bogged down by the other stuff to me uh i'm not really craving attention or fame or even money really like the the high that i get is just off of making a good interview and then delivering it to the world and catching the reaction that that gets like that's the drug that's the priority that's above all else for me and i've never had that side of it threatened really or like not in like a serious way i guess i used to take those like sort of it'd be a shame if someone else hosted kind of things seriously um has anyone ever actually said that it would be a shame if someone else hosted yeah yeah i didn't i didn't i didn't make up that quote really yeah who said that uh i that's not only one person but um but i think that was a situation are you gonna eat the wing are you gonna eat this wing yeah i was like i was like here's a here's a shitty contract you have 24 hours to sign this otherwise you know we're putting someone else that kind of thing you know, is happen.

45:22This is the bit where I enjoy you eating the spicy wing. It's a metaphor. I appreciate you kind of, I get it, man. It's hard. It reminds me a little bit, I mean, I worked for 20 years at the BBC with no ownership of my programs. I would get a residual whatever percentage. So I didn't feel badly. In fact, I was grateful for that. And as long as I was making the shows with a sense of security because I didn't have to worry about running a company or any of that stuff. And I was basically, I quite enjoyed being, as it were, a factory worker at the BBC, like alongside everyone else working from contract to contract.

45:57And then five years ago, I started my own company. And, you know, there's pluses and minuses, but your compensation is better. And then there's a little less security. But you do have the pleasure of knowing that, you know, you're the sort of master of your own destiny. Yeah, I think, yeah, it's just, you know, you fix one corner of the carpet, you can kind of mess up the other corner a little bit. So as long as I never had to compromise creatively or compromise in terms of vision, and I could just do the show, like that was all, you know, kind of enough for me. And then, you know, even like in a contract negotiation, what I would sometimes do is just have a thing that made me happy, you know, like write it down before so you don't get into this thing.

46:36And then once those needs were met, you know, I didn't feel the need to like continue to fight or whatever. I think through all of that, you get a unique insight onto how this whole poker game works and where you're going to kind of sit in it. So even though, you know, the pieces that are out and what's being written about it could sound like I should, you know, be in like a stressful situation. Like I said, I've already gotten so much out of it and I think it'll work out just like it has in the past. You said, I'll say that it's the best interview show, but it's because there's so many bad interview shows by comparison we look fucking excellent that was in 2019 i said that yeah oh um so i think when we first started doing the show there really weren't that many good interview shows especially on the internet um and now i think there are a lot of them i think the podcast revolution and all of that has kind of crowded the space and and now you get when I'm watching interviews, there's just so much more I can sink my teeth into now than the landscape when we first started the show.

47:46So I might have said that, but I'll walk that back a little bit now, just because I think there are so many good ones now. For sure. I'm going to say one other thing, and this is totally out of sequence, but you were very kind when I was on the show by giving, I mean, I'm sure to all your guests, you do this, gave me a kind of a box of all the hot sources and I went away and I finished all of them with the exception of what seemed to me the hottest one, the bomb, the most problematic one. But what happened was I smashed it on the ground. I don't know how. I just accidentally knocked off the table.

48:17So I started clearing it up with paper towels and I was scooping it up, scooping it up. But can you guess what happened? You, at the end of your cleanup, touched your face or you went to the restroom. is it one way or another there was a cross-contamination issue that you experienced quite but not close enough basically my hands started glowing and i hadn't really realized like i should have been wearing latex gloves 100 no exaggeration i would say for 24 hours minimum it felt like they were kind of glowing and i went to bed and i was like i had to keep them under the pillow because they were so hot and uncomfortable.

48:58Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I didn't touch my wiener or why that didn't cross contaminate. Well, good thing it didn't. Why? What happens when you do that? It's like bear macing yourself in your underwear or something, you know, like any cross contamination mistake that you can make. I've made over the years and I always tell people be careful around the eyes. You know, there's this natural inclination to want to wipe your eyes when you're on the show because your face starts to sweat. But you really should not do that because you can end up, you know, swiping an eyeball. And we've had guests that have had to do the last couple of wings kind of like this before.

49:32And I always say that I'm always on top of that. But the number one worst thing you can do is just not thoroughly wash your hands afterwards, use the restroom, and then you've got a real problem. Tell me about it. I mean, is your energy okay? Yeah, I'm doing good. I'm here with you. You're killing it, by the way. Don't touch your eyes. You grew up in Chicago, which, you know, like for the British public, they know New York, they know L.A. Those are the two kind of the poles, the twin poles of American culture. And Chicago is a less known terrain. And yet, in a sense, it's the more quintessential American city, arguably, being in the Midwest, in the heartland.

50:14And also, correct me if I'm wrong, did you grow up in Evanston or you were born in Evanston? Born in Evanston and then grew up in the northwest suburb of Crystal Lake, Illinois. And Evanston, I believe, is home to some John Hughes films. So in a sense, in film form, it crystallizes an aspect of the American high school experience. Yes. Which for certainly people of my generation, movies like Sixteen Candles and Pretty in Pink and so forth. Breakfast Club. It was so primal and so important. and I mean I sense that you that yours was a happy upbringing you've spoken glowingly of your uh upbringing like for me as a podcast interviewer that's a challenge because if I can hang my hat on some piece of trauma it's really helpful and nothing in the research nothing is hoved into view like no major instances of um I'm trying not to trivialize like serious personal you know serious issues but feel free to volunteer something well you're right in that it was uh idyllic um in those john hughes movies you know i i do feel like i lived a quintessential sort of 90s kid experience you know like playing baseball playing football right now around on a bike with my friends you know like living in a neighborhood where every single house had kids and they were all within like a three to four year window of each other and everyone's running around in each other's yards and the, uh, the games and the prom and the, you know, like all of those experiences, uh, that I look back on and be like, I'm, you know, happy I grew up that way.

51:53But there, I did have, you know, um, uh, my mother had, uh, cancer, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which was always a storm cloud growing up and, and passed away, uh, when I was a teenager, when I was 15 or 16 years old. Yeah. Okay, I did not know that. What was her line of work? So she worked for the antitrust division of the U.S. government. So I think like a paralegal breaking up monopolies and stuff. She'd be going for Google big time. Yeah. She'd be kicking their butt. Who are they going for at the moment? Is it Bill Gates? I think they're going for Google, aren't they? Yeah, it sounds like the antitrust division of the federal government's pretty busy these days.

52:37They're certainly a lot more busy than it used to be. But I do have like just sort of strange memories of growing up and like remembering a time where, you know, she'd have to like watch confidential surveillance video of something. And there was this summer that she was working on a big case and my dad would just be like taking me and my brother to like the batting cages during the day and then a movie in the afternoon and then going out for dinner. And I remember that, like those sorts of experiences when my mom was working on a big case, I remember it just turned into like a fun vacation with me, my brother and my dad.

53:09Like those are the kinds of memories I have from that. Your dad was a judge. So you had quite a high powered pair of parents right there. Yeah, they were. And, you know, when I interview a lot of creative people, there's a sense like, oh, I was at odds with the world. I didn't fit in. I was an incel. I hid in my books. But I don't know if that was the case for you. No, I mean, the ways in which my childhood kind of formed is my dad was a Letterman obsessive. And he would tape all of the episodes all week. And then on weekends, he'd binge them. And watching Letterman with my dad was kind of a fun, early core memory experience that I had.

53:45And I remember, like, during the monologue, the crowd would be laughing. I'd always have my dad explain the joke to me. You know, I'd be like, why are people laughing? What is this? This must have been in the early 90s, I guess, like 1990, 1991, 1992. So I remember watching that kind of thing and being inspired by it, you know, like seeing the lights, camera action of it all. And then also the way that this guy in New York could have this direct connection to my dad in Chicago and then saw the impact that just entertainment could have on a person. So that was my earliest memory of that. And then I did become obsessed kind of a talk radio.

54:22There was like the local radio shows around me. There was the show Loveline, a call in sort of like sex advice thing with Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla that I'd listen to every night. And then, of course, the late night shows, Howard Stern. I would just have the episodes and listen to him at recess and stuff. So like that time in my life, that was like later on, like high school, college era. I'd start doing that. Stern in a way like he's not as well known in the UK, but in a sense, the quintessential shock jock but but that doesn't quite do justice to his intelligence and his sense you know his sense of humor it felt like it was right at the edge and sometimes over the edge of kind of acceptable but you kind of forgave it because he felt somehow like he was your guy it's hard to really explain i think part of it was having robin quivers as his sidekick so she had this sort of great relationship with a black woman who was there kind of reigning him in or just providing some sort of counter narrative you know what i mean that was part of the dynamic that i think made it okay and then i think too like the biggest draw for me early on though is actually like the prank calls i think that it was like and when i first started listening to it was almost like the show was almost connective tissue between prank calls for me uh and then ended up kind of just falling in love with the show and the way that it uh knocked down all the walls and kind of turned itself inside out and presented it to the audience that way so like and that way i remember being like, well, I've never heard anything like this.

55:50And I'd always be curious, you know, how various news and pop culture events filtered through the brain of Howard and how he'd distill it to his audience. And so those were the sort of the icons that kind of gave me the sense of purpose and confidence that, you know, to pursue a broadcast journalism degree and to think that maybe one day I could be on TV. One of the quotes was that in high school, you could sit at any of the tables in the cafeteria, which I thought was quite a telling metaphor. It doesn't quite, I don't know if it's set up in quite the same way in the UK, whether there's the same level of, I mean, what were the different tables?

56:29What did they represent? You know, I think that like, you know, athletes would hang out together. I think like theater kids would hang out together. I think nerds would hang out together. I don't think it's that dissimilar from the John Hughes construction of the high school experience. That's not that far off from my lived experience. And yeah, I had close friend groups and people that I'd hang out with all the time. But I do think that I was able to switch codes and bounce around from group to group, which is in a way kind of what I'm doing now. You know, it's just you meet so many different big personalities and finding a way to connect with them in some way, especially because they're all varied and have all different kinds of backgrounds or whatever.

57:15And then to just try to connect an input into their thinking and find a rhythm in the way that you're connecting with one another on a show is not that dissimilar from navigating the politics of a high school lunchroom. I want to ask this delicately, and you can leave it on the table if you like. Did you enjoy a lot of female attention? Yeah, it was fine. Yeah, yeah. Like, not like Prom King or like, not like the Freddie Prinze Jr. version of that teen high school flick. Like, never that. But no complaints. I think I was in like a sort of B, a letter grade B kind of category that whole time. I do remember like an eighth grade or maybe seventh grade.

58:03Did you just grade yourself on your sexual attractiveness? Yeah, like at that time. But I do remember when I was in seventh grade, I'd have like a cut long hair and then it would be kind of like parted down the middle and never had any kind of attention in that way. And then I do remember like in one weekend getting a 98 degrees haircut and my jawline kind of coming in like on the same weekend and then going to school and getting like giggles behind me and stuff like that. And like, oh, things are kind of changing. So I do remember that kind of moment. But yeah, like overall, yeah, like had a girlfriend in high school and did prom and all of those things.

58:41Like, yeah, I've never really thought about it because I don't think I've been asked the question to reflect on that. But it was it was all fine. It was all fine. If you didn't think about it, that suggests it wasn't an issue. It's a bit like being tall. Like you don't go around thinking I'm tall. I'm going to abandon that metaphor or that analogy. uh you went from geek to chad like just with it that was yeah and it was kind of short it was kind of short lived i think i went back down to geek you know it was just one week like in one weekend i was off to the races but i wasn't really built to deal with that like i don't think i was i don't think i necessarily was expressing the kind of confidence that went with like the package at that time so then once people saw that kind of disconnect i think it faded off but uh but But overall, yeah, like I had no.

59:26Yeah, like that was all that was all fine. You know, I'm aware you mentioned that your mom had died when you were 15, 15 or 16 years old. I think I was a junior in high school. Can you is there anything you'd like to say about that time? Yeah. I mean, challenging time, obviously. And anyone who's dealt with cancer in the family knows how you go through this dark time and then it goes away. and then it feels like brighter days are ahead and now you're in a good place and then it comes back and then you know the chemotherapy and you see somebody in the house um suffering uh the way that they are and it's your mom you know like all of that stuff um looking back was a lot to deal with you know and in some ways it's not like it's like a sore subject or anything you know like it happened a long time ago and is just part of my experience and do think about her and wonder what she'd think of this whole kind of crazy life that I'm living now sometimes.

1:00:22But yeah, it was definitely a paradigm shifting moment in my life as it is for a lot of people. But it's something that pretty much all of us go through. 15 year olds can be tearaways. I speak as a father of three boys, 18, 16 and nine. Was your relationship with your mom in a good place around that time and leading up to it. You know, it was, but there are like, and this is, you do think about these little things. You know, I remember the very last conversation we ever had was her wondering what college I was going to go to. You know, and to me, I didn't think of it anything more than like my mom nagging me about where I'm going to go to school.

1:01:04But then she passed away within like 48 hours of that. And now that I look back on it, it's like she knew that that was going to happen. So she was trying to get out of me where I'm going to college because she like really wanted that information before she went. And then you think about that now and it snaps into focus and you can feel regret. Like, why did I handle that like that? You know, of course, the answer is like I was 15 and that just seemed like one of the million times my mom's like, well, what are you going to do this summer? Like, where are you going to Scott? You know, like it just felt like one of those conversations.

1:01:34So but no, it was it was in a good place other than just the natural kind of way in which all relationships with like teenagers and their parents is imperfect. Are you okay talking about this? Yeah, yeah, I'm fine talking about it. I'm curious how long it was from diagnosis to her death. And if you remember the moment when they had the conversation with you that this was happening. I only remember it and it just being part of my life, my whole life. You know, there'd be times where she'd be going through chemo treatments or whatever and like dropping me off for literally games when I was like 10 or 11 years old.

1:02:11You know, like I remember those kinds of things. And it's something that started for her when she was in high school. You know, like doctors never thought that she'd have kids and things like that. So it was a battle that she'd been facing since, you know, she was 15 or 16 years old all the way through the end of her life. And that's I remember my whole life being like, this is a good time. Feels like things are going to get better. And then this is a bad time, you know. Um, so I remember being one of those things, but the concern being a little bit different and just sort of the storm cloud over the house being a little bit different.

1:02:42I don't remember the actual kind of conversation, but I do remember there was, uh, you know, like a hospice situation. I think they, they set up a bed in the living room. Uh, one of my best friends, mom was a nurse. And so she came in and was kind of helping out with all of that. And then I remember like kind of on the morning of like when she'd passed, like just knowing when I like walk downstairs and like the eeriness of like the quiet house and kind of the look on the nurse's face. And then, you know, me just kind of like not saying a word to anybody and going back upstairs. Like that's kind of what I remember about that morning.

1:03:20And then also I just remember the support, you know, like there are so many people from my life that came to the house that day that dropped off food with well wishes. You know, like I did feel in that moment feelings of support and then also feeling like I needed to be that, too, for other people. You know, I have a younger brother who's younger, you know, like 15, 16 years old. That's not a great time to lose somebody. But think about that, like 13, 14, you know, feeling like I need to be like a strong big brother in that situation. Also for like what my dad was going through, you know, like trying to give him the grace to not have to be the strong one in this case, which, of course, he just did anyway.

1:03:58So those are kinds of the memories I have that swirl around that particular time in my life. Wow. Do you subscribe to a faith? Is that part of your life? I mean, I'm agnostic. I think the part—it's harder for me to believe that this is all for no reason than it is for some reason. You know, like that side of it is harder for me to wrap my head around, that this is just for nothing. but I don't have a jersey. I'm not on a team necessarily. It's weird when you have kids and you're trying to explain death to them and as either someone who's not an observant Christian or whatever, there's a temptation to sort of say, well, they've gone somewhere special.

1:04:44They're in the sky. They're with the angels when you don't really believe that and then at the same time to say, well, they're dead and you're never going to see them again and that's pretty much the end of the story. feels quite harsh, right? Nevertheless, that's the truthful answer. So that's the one I give. The inevitable, the one that we face. Oh, my God. I want to ask a couple more questions. I don't want to take the piss and kind of eat up tons of time. I feel like your journey in some ways was a bit similar to mine in as much as you came out of a kind of journalistic training and didn't really see yourself as being someone on TV or someone having a profile necessarily.

1:05:28And yet you became the guy who was up for stuff, like you were willing to have a crack at something, right? And there was a time when I guess you'd been hired by Complex, this sort of streetwear company, and there were gigs that would come along for sort of like, I'm going to do this for a day, right? And you were the guy, I'll do it. Can you talk a bit about that? Yeah. So, I mean, that was kind of the paper line existence. You know, I think it was one of those situations where it's like, well, I don't necessarily see myself in a particular mold on TV or whatever, but I am curious about people, you know, and I think that that's been the number one thing that's fueled this whole wave that we're on.

1:06:06So I'm like, OK, what would it be like to eat the rocks diet for a day and do the rocks training regimen, you know, like and just walk a mile in someone else's shoes and see how it plays out. these are all so long ago but i do remember i think the rock one was my first like big video you know before hot ones but also to it it did kind of bleed into hot ones in a way because even you know just trying to eat the carolina reaper that's just basically uh jump and see what happens you know just uh edge close to danger and see how it all plays out what can you tell me about the rocks diet can you remember anything about his diet all i remember is that It's nonstop.

1:06:46And then it would be like it's a lot of cod and brown rice. Yeah. And then it gets served to you on a plate that basically weighs as much as a Range Rover tire. And then it's like once you eat that, the next one is kind of coming. You know what I mean? So you're never out from under that thing. And then you're just you're eating so much that it's uncomfortable. You're training so much that it's uncomfortable. So that's what I remember most is how dense and flavorless it kind of all was. And then basically someone, well, I guess, was it Chris, Chris Schoenberg, who talent spotted you or like he had the idea or what was the genesis of Hot Ones?

1:07:24So he was running First We Feast, hey, buddy. And that was Foodblog. And in 2015, you know, like every media company became a YouTube channel. So he had to launch a show. He had this idea. We had a good sort of like water cooler office relationship that we had going. And he was looking for a host. And I think his pitch email was like, you know, we could have Sean Evans host, you know, because I think, you know, he needed an affordable and motivated human body to shove into the show to make it work. But I think he also had the he's like, or if that doesn't work out, I could host. I remember. And when he approached me for the idea, it just seems so smart and like just such a such a Cupid's arrow into my brain.

1:08:11And I recognized the potential that it had immediately and it being a totally singular and unique format. And we shot a pilot and that was almost 10 years ago. We just haven't stopped shooting them since. And the rest is history. And actually, strikingly, the first one's only five minutes. It's with Tony Yeo. And it's not one of the best, but it's a serviceable episode. Yeah, a pilot. It's a kind of a pilot because it's only six minutes. It's, you know, we're going to go back to one spicy wing. It isn't really that spicy, but, you know, obviously the report is that BuzzFeed is struggling to sell hot ones for$70 million.

1:08:50Like that's the headline, struggling. I resent that because that sounds like it's not a hot brand, and it is. But there's presumably a scenario where you and Chris go out and raise equity and kind of buy it, and then you're your own bosses, and Vivek Ramaswamy can go take a hike, right? And presumably you've talked about that. Yeah, I mean, candidly, that's kind of an ideal outcome is to, you know, kind of take back this thing that we created together. And so, I mean, we'll see what happens. There's just a lot of different things that can happen with stuff like this. And in some ways it's a new experience, but in some ways it's very familiar to the things that I've had to navigate in the past.

1:09:36So I think ultimately Hot Ones will find a way, as it always has, through being this little engine that could show. And that's where I land on it. And it is something that I have a lot of endurance for going forward. You know, like I don't have the burnout feelings. Like I said, I feel comfortable in the captain's chair and I wouldn't trade it with anyone. So hopefully with all those things combined, it'll just get us through a challenging time and set us up to do it for another 10 years. That's my hope. And I think that'll happen.

1:10:25OK, welcome back. I hope you enjoyed that. It was fun talking to Sean. What a lovely man. Can I editorialise like that? They're all lovely, my guests. And Sean especially. Since we spoke, it's been reported that an investment group, including Sean and his co-creator Chris, purchased Hot Ones from BuzzFeed for$82.5 million. I guess that wasn't all his pocket jingle. Like they had backers, I'm assuming. and good you know that's great I had the sense talking to him that he wanted to be the captain of his own destiny and this will presumably enable him to do that by the way I've now watched my episode of Hot Ones it has two million views I slightly wish it was more than that it's a solid episode and I think there's some laughs And I've even watched it, and you might be able to see on YouTube my reaction video.

1:11:23That's how YouTube-friendly I am now. I'm actually doing reaction videos, reacting to myself. That's what they do on the internet now. During the chat, Sean said the benchmark for a surprisingly low-performing episode was 3 million, which is a million more than mine got. What the hell? What do we do with that? We say there's more work to do. there's people out there who haven't heard the good news about the Jesus Christ of documentary making that's a blasphemous reference we also spoke about Chili Klaus who featured in a video with Sean eating a Carolina Reaper chili it's such a beautiful video they look like it's like someone's thrown a hand grenade into a house and you see their head is the house right, it's a metaphor, and you just see them imploding visually.

1:12:17His real name is Klaus Pilgaard, although he also performs music under the name Klaus Wunderhitz. There's another good video where he forces an orchestra to eat chilies and then try to perform, which we'll link to in the show notes. We mentioned the Mario Batali case. His Hot Ones episode was taken down in 2017 after four women accused him of sexual misconduct. Batali was charged with indecent assault and battery in 2019, but cleared of both charges in 2022. I think that might be about it, except for credits. The producer was Millie Chu. Chew, that's relevant, right? Because you chew food, hot ones.

1:12:58The assistant producer was Amelia Gill. Gill, that doesn't work. Gill's fish. The production manager was Francesca Bassett and the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Chicken Wings.

1:13:17The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. Oliveira Oil. I'll stop now. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.