S5 EP7: Danny Dyer describes battling addiction, UFO obsessions, and tackling Shakespeare

24:44Yeah, absolutely. You're fair game with them. And I think that you sort of trying to understand them and looking at them from the microscope is very different from me, who can walk on there. And, of course, some people, you know, didn't like me. Why would they? Some people don't trust cameras. You know, of course, I'm on this journalistic thing, which, again, it's almost me, you know, talking about them in a way like they are subjects, which again is a bit off-putting for people. I get it, but at least I speak in a certain way. And I'd made films about violence and stuff like that, whereas you represent something different.

25:15So I could understand that they could maybe, not bully you, but tease you a bit, take the piss a bit. Bullying I can take, like in a weird way. Masculinity thing. Go on. Just that's what I'm saying. In the sense of, do they see you as a masculine man? And what's the answer? Can they imagine you have a fag hanging out of your mouth, you know, sort of swearing and, you know, just generally doing anything slightly naughty, you know what I mean? Would you be friends with the old Bill? Probably. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can imagine you have a dinner party. You might know a DC. Yeah. You know, nothing wrong with that.

25:48Loose talk. They would look at it as, especially if you're surrounded by loads of them. I went to Appleby. Did you go to Appleby? No. Yeah, that was the big one. We bailed on it after three nights. It was mainly because Paddy was also filming with the Channel 4 crew at the same time but hadn't told us and we couldn't really. You can't do a documentary. It was like he had two wives, you know, and he was like, we were turning up on one day saying, all right, Paddy, how's it going? And then he said, oh, I can't film tomorrow. We're like, oh, why not? He said, I'm a bit busy. And then it would turn out Channel 4 was there filming something else.

26:14Exactly, because he also went on to do Big Brother after Maya thing. He's the big one Big Brother. And he won it. So, and again, I think the travelling community frowned upon that because obviously, like I said, they don't really want to parade around on the television talking about their lives too much because it's a very much secret society. I find it fascinating. And I will say this, you know, I love my Traveller fans. You know, I do now and again have Travellers come up to me and they're all Paddy's cousin, by the way. Of course. And shake me in and, you know, want to have a photo with me and stuff.

26:43And, you know, I love them. I get a lot of love for it, you know, and I thought it might have gone the other way slightly. For the doc, for the work that came out. Yeah, it may be. And also just me all of a sudden becoming like what you do, being a journalist on a journalistic sort of crusade, you know, that never sat right with me. I did it purely to get an ass. And I do think it came and backfired on me and still does slightly in a sense of, you know, there's still a lot of people that just don't think I'm the worst actor ever, you know. They just don't, he just plays himself, I think is the most common one that I get.

27:18But, you know, the fact that, you know, some people can call me a good actor, they just find it laughable. And I think it stems from, Listen, you can't please everyone. Of course you can't. And maybe there are people out there that think I'm rubbish, but I think it stems from that stuff and me, you know. The quote you gave in The Guardian was, if there's one thing I regret about my career, it's that I didn't let my acting do the talking. Well, yeah, I think if you've got the luxury of, and there's a lot of actors out there that do press but don't. They drone on about nothing. And the less you give away about your life, the more exciting you are on screen as an actor, aren't you?

27:53So, you know, if you've spoke as openly as I have and, you know, I've got a certain way with words, tone of phrase, and then you see me do it on a show, acting, then the people that supposedly know everything about acting would look at me and go, well, it's his plan himself. But again, I also think that actors play their self. Like, you bring a character to life, but your toolbox is you. you know your traumas and and and the most interesting parts about you is what you use to be a good actor i've always been from the theory that just because you can do accents doesn't make you a chameleon you know what i mean most actors do do the same thing if you watch them closely enough you know what i mean yeah very rare actors that the daniel day lewis is um say maybe killian murphy's a real chameleons they they never really do the same thing i mean i I said it at the BAFTA.

28:50It was about Ryan Sampson. That was a good speech, but I'm glad we're back at the BAFTA. Because the other thing is, you won your BAFTA, you went up, you nailed the speech. Thank you. I didn't think I did say it. I thought I completely fucked it up. What makes you say that? Well, because I was so emotional and I don't... You didn't start crying. No, but I didn't know I was going to... Did you cry? No, I caught my breath a couple of times. You said, I want to pay tribute to Ryan Sampson, co-star and creator of The Thing. You said, the best thing that ever came out of Rotherham. Then you said, which isn't saying a lot.

29:16Which is fair. Which was a good joke. Did you have that one in your back pocket? Yeah, I had a few about him, actually, but I couldn't get it out. I thought start with a joke. So I went up there and obviously this time, you know, it's such a moment. It's such a moment. I looked at my two daughters, who were so stunning, and they were crying and I thought, oh, OK. So my opening line was, oh, best comedy performance. It's because my acting was so bad, it was funny. That got too much of a laugh. and I thought, OK, I've got them there. But then I thought, no, be grown up. Don't swear, you know, because I know people's going to expect you, and I know it's a classy event.

29:54You dropped three F-bombs, I think. Yeah, they cut round it lovely, by the way. I don't know how they did that. You said fuck three times. I know I did. Then each one got a laugh. It was only when I was choked. I went, fuck me, I'm choked. And I was. And they got a laugh. And then I sort of had to breathe, and then I wanted to thank people, because I've not really done that over the years. I've won awards before, and you probably should thank people. So I wanted to thank Hayley Sterling, who was the producer on this, the Oracle, just an amazing human being. And of course, the other actors in this show, Mr.

30:22Big Stuff, which is such a clever show. It's a really good show. And I thought, it was Ryan that wrote this for me. He gave me this gift. Did he have you in mind when he wrote it? Yeah, he said to me, his story is this, we met on Plebs a long time ago. Plebs is a sitcom. Set in the Roman times, a bit like the Inbetweeners set in the Roman times. And I remember doing this, I was on it for a week and I remember seeing this actor and he played Grumio with this bowl haircut. But again, a bit method, just unbelievable what he was doing, the choices he was making. I was like, wow, who's this kid? And he was sort of alluding to, oh, you know what, I might have an idea for me and you, you know, and all this sort of stuff.

30:55Anyway, I've only seen him for 10 years, but he went away and wrote this thing for me and him. By this time I was in EastEnders, and so he wrote this script about two brothers, you know, two estranged brothers that are going to come back together, two different sides of masculinity, one being really sensitive, one being alpha. And he wrote it for me, and then he went to his agent, and his agent said, you do know he's in EastEnders and he'll never be able to do this. And so he was so deflated. He hadn't even considered that. And so, anyway, he... If you're in EastEnders, you can't do anything? No, of course you can't, absolutely not.

31:25It takes up your whole life. You haven't got time. So there's no rules against it. Yeah, but it also goes into the whole working for the BBC thing, doesn't it? If you're working for the BBC, then, you know, it's publicly funded money. So you can't be seen to be going off and earning money elsewhere, which is why you're not allowed to... I think it's slightly changing. You know, you're not allowed to go off and do adverts and brand deals. and, you know, especially when you're in EastEnders because, you know, you... Then it's like the character on the show is endorsing a kind of fear or something.

31:51Yeah, I suppose it depends if the show made you famous or not and then you're only really known for that character that maybe they might have more issues with it. But there was no way in the world they would... And especially with Mr Big Stuff, although it's a funny show, it's quite controversial. Anyway, he went out after he was told it's not going to happen because Danny's in EastEnders. He had a bit of a bender. He went to a petrol garage in the morning, and then he saw on the newsstand, Dyer leaves EastEnders. So he went, this is a sign. This is meant to happen. So, and again, I hadn't spoke to him in a long time.

32:27And I was not aware of this. This wasn't one of the decisions why I left or anything like that. It was just about, you know, me going, do you know what, I want to see if there's anything else out there for me. You know what I mean? So I just run my contract down. But so I didn't know this was bubbling away in the background. And so then, anyway, he got a new energy for it and sent it to me, and I read it, and I was like, wow, this is incredible. Can we get it made? I said, listen, I'm up for it. I'm so up for this. He's an actor, right? He hadn't written anything before. No, I think he'd wrote a couple of short films and stuff, but, you know, he's a little gay guy from Rotherham who's always been obsessed with masculinity, and so that's why he wrote it.

33:03And so it's something that he... And he always had me in mind. He said if I couldn't have played the role, he wouldn't have done it. So, you know, he got it made. And it was my first real chance to be in something funny. Your other joke was, you said, Ryan does something different with each role, not something that can be said about myself. Yeah, yeah. One of the greatest actors this country's ever produced. Never done the same thing twice, which is not something I can say. Again, too much of a big laugh. Got a big laugh. Have you ever played... What's the furthest you've got from kind of, you know, that sort of Danny Dye persona in a role?

33:41Have you done posh in a role? I did one film a long time ago. It was only a small part. But I think probably why my life has gone a bit crazy at the moment is Rivals. I think that it's not about being posh. It's about physicality and showing something completely different. Sensitive. Yeah, but a powerful man. He's a working class guy made good, though, isn't he? He's powerful. You know, he's got a brilliant brain. You know, he's brought technology to the country. That's how brilliant he is. He speaks Japanese, you know, but he's also got a real vulnerability about him and a soft side. So, you know, it was about me just showing a different side that I knew I was capable of but people taking a risk.

34:23You know, I'm working with some titans in this show. David Tennant and Aidan Turner. Yeah. Victoria Smurphy. I've got to say, Alex Hassel who plays Rupert Campbell Black is I'm so surprised he didn't get acknowledged more for what he'd done. He had the hardest role. Rupert Campbell Black. He's the lady killer, isn't he? Rupert Campbell Black. He's the ultimate man in Jilly Cooper's world. The most beautiful colours. First episode, he's having sex with a woman in a... On a Concord. In a Concord. It's all based on the Jilly Cooper novel. It's a bonk buster. Yeah, yeah, you can call it. That's what they called it back in the day.

34:58Back in the day. It's a nice slice of life, though, isn't it, of that era? Yeah. It takes the 80s. The 80s are back. Thatcher. It's very Tory heavy. Yeah. Sort of, is it Chilton set? Rutscher. Rutscher. Rutscher. It's fictional. Fictional. It's a fictional county. Cotswolds, really, where she lives. Cotswolds. And, you know, she... Riding horses, playing tennis naked. A lot of animals, a lot of dogs running around. A lot of harrots. They turn up at a dinner party and one bloke goes and has sex with a woman in another room while the dinner party's going on. Yes, absolutely. What the hell? But I don't think it was being apologetic about the 80s, and I think that's why people appreciated it, but it's also...

35:32I haven't got far enough into it. Do you end up having some sort of an affair? Maybe that's a spoiler. Well, no, it's already out, isn't it? So they'll know. Do you get your kids off? How bonky do you get? At the end, I had a result with that, really, because my characters sort of, what they managed to do with my character, Freddie and Lizzie, was everyone's having an affair, left, right and centre, mostly for power, using sex for power. And there's two characters that are married to awful people, but have morals. and so they're trying to do the right thing and stay in their marriages but they're so drawn to each other and they resist, resist, resist until the very last step when they just think, why are we resisting this?

36:13You know, there's a complete connection. We don't say much to each other through the series. It's a lot of looks. It's a lot of what is unsaid and a lot of people were saying never before have they rooted for an affair more than on this show. Wow. And so we pulled it out of the bag.

36:53Let's talk about you... Well, you know what, before we move on, UFOs, because that's the other overlap. I failed at my Paddy Doherty but you made Danny Dyer I believe in UFOs I made a UFOs documentary How did you get on with it? I don't as such identify as a believer So you honestly think that our planet we're the only things that exist? Well we can't know that but I don't know that it would be weird if there wasn't another planet somewhere but the question is are they visiting isn't it? Are they actually coming and mixing it up with us? Yeah, are they more technologically advanced that they can do that?

37:36That they, A, can do it, and B, that the people who are saying that they're having experiences... I would say yes. I think, why not? Have you had a contact? I know in your documentary you see some lights. I'm not trying to belittle that. No, but that was actual UFOs, because what is a UFO? An identified flying object. So it wasn't aeroplanes, so it was an orb going through the sky, so then that's a UFO. So whatever you want to make of that, that's the fact. Now, I know that because I went to Mount Adams in Colorado and there's a mount in there that's well known for UFOs flying in and out of it, which again sounds fucking ridiculous.

38:10But actually, you know, when they got their laptops out and showed the flight paths and all that, these are not aeroplanes and you see it. I met that guy, Stan Romanek, who I found really fascinating. He's the guy who said he'd been taken up on a UFO and had been chipped, I think. He has been abducted since he was a child. What, regularly? Regularly, randomly. You'd think that would be easy to check, wouldn't you? But then, yeah, they found that thing under his skin, which is from this world, this planet. He shows you a picture of it. But then you said... And again, you've got a smirk on your face.

38:43No, because in the documentary, then you said, but then he did ask us for£50 ,000 to show his footage. He's trying to monetise it. I get that. Yeah, I'm only laughing because you... No, I know, I get it. At the time, I was fuming because I wanted to, you know, show a lot of the stuff that he showed me. But if you think about it, look, listen, I've reached the truth. I was talking shite. There's no two... But I think if he is telling the truth, no one would believe you anyway. That's the thing. So, you know, imagine if this stuff was happening to you and no one believes you. He said a lot about the men in black people following him around and telling him to shut his mouth and...

39:18Secret US agency personnel? Yeah. I mean, you know, the classic, really, isn't it? We don't talk, it's Area 51, we don't talk about it. Yeah, no, you can't fly over there. If you get caught walking through there, you will be shot. You know why? So, you know, there's something in it. You know, some of the stories he told me, I think the first story he told me, which was about when he was sitting on a swing and this woman came up to him with huge eyes and she just leant in and her lips didn't move and she said, you're a very special child, you know that. He's sort of a little story, it's like, again, you're laughing at me, Lou.

39:47But I like, I love the idea of someone actually, if it has happened, talking about it. Yeah. Look, listen, some of the footage that he showed me with, you know, the alien coming in his kitchen and stuff, I've said this before, it did look a bit like the late, great Paul Daniels. The one I saw was there's a video and it's behind a screen door and then a kind of sorcery-ed classic. Yeah, so the lights go. Yeah, that's right. So the lights go. It looked like a child wearing a Halloween mask. Well, yes. Didn't it? but then what do we know about what aliens look like? No, fair enough. Maybe that's the shape of it, but, yeah, I get it.

40:28I understand why it's laughable. There was another one, which I thought wasn't a mask, was when it comes in, it gets in, and he's sort of screaming and that, and he's sort of in the living room, and then you see the long fingers come round the door, and it pulls its head round. I mean, you're in bits here. I was like, well, again, either this is the truth and he's showing me footage, or it's shite. And he's lying to me. There's no in-between. And, you know, I think it's 50-50. You know what? Why not? You know, there's stranger things going on on this planet at the moment. Yeah, it's a bit of fun.

41:09Can we talk a bit about, we should talk about something, well, not that that's not serious, but something equally serious or even more serious. In terms of growing up, Can we talk a bit about growing up? And, you know, Custom House, East London, you've described it as, you know, loving, but in some ways it was a hardscrabble, working-class upbringing, right? Yeah. You discovered at one point, you know, you had this loving mum, your dad was in and out, your parents split up. It turned out he had another family, is that right? Yes, yes, he did, yeah, that's right. Yeah, he had an affair and, you know, he tried to basically run two families at the same time.

41:47I don't know what he was thinking, but the stress of that, of course. And we found out when I was nine, so he sort of had a kid with my mum and someone else around the same time. Right. So it was a revelation to all of us. Was he married to your mum? Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, this is stuff that sort of stays with you, I think, when you don't quite know what to do with it. And when I think the male role model leaves your life at a young age, for boys and girls, to be fair, You know, it leaves this void. I lost the plot for quite a while after he left. How present was your dad? He was flitting in and out, really, when he first left, because obviously he left under extreme circumstances and then had to go and make a go of it with this other family, which was a disaster as well.

42:34Did he have many kids? Also, you know what it was? It was the idea of knowing that I've got two siblings and never met them. You know, that was weird for me. Did you meet them later? I did. I wanted to. My brother didn't. He wasn't interested. But I demanded it, you know. How did that go? You know, it was odd, because obviously I was still the oldest sibling out of all of them, and, you know, walking to a strange house with two sisters. How old were you then? Nine, ten. Right. Did you become family? Well, I tried. Because then you've got two half-sisters then, is that right? Yeah, yeah, who I love dearly now, you know.

43:11But you can imagine how difficult it is to try and get your head around that as a child, you know. Is your dad still alive? Yes, he is, yeah. How's he doing? He's one of my best mates in the world now. I love him dearly. You know, he's cracking on. He's 70 this year. Now he's a grandfather, a great-grandfather. He's a great-grandfather. He's trying to... Quite a young one. Yeah, no, listen, he's really trying now. I think his upbringing was very difficult and he didn't quite know how to be a dad himself. And, you know, he just really struggled with it and affection and all them things. He was a provider for sure and he grafted hard.

43:47Painter and decorator? Painter and decorator, yeah. What he grappled with, do you think? What was going on in his background that made him... Because you've talked about his emotional withholding quality, but then he'd have a few drinks and become more affectionate. Yeah, he would. I preferred him drunk. I know that's not the case for many people that have alcohol issues within their family. It's like when they have a drink, they turn into a nightmare, whereas he became softer, gentler. So it brought out a better side to him. He would actually forget by the next day, of course, and then you'd fall into a rhythm with him when he was pissed and then, God forbid, you try and give him a cuddle the next day because it would be weird.

44:24Really? I think he was brought up by a very strict father in the 50s and the 60s. Very different world, wasn't it? It was. You know, like that generation that were brought up and our government said, if you're gay, you're going to go to prison. That's right. So when you're brought up with that, you're talking about our government, yeah? the people that you pay tax for that protect you and tell you these are the laws, this is how you should live your life. So, you know, when you're brought up in that environment and the way the media portray, you know, especially back in the day, you know, black people, people of colour, you know, these scum sort of newspapers, the way they, you know, you're going to create racist people, aren't you?

45:06You create racism. If you've got the narrative, you're being fed. Of course it's changed now. you'd like to think slightly. Not much, though. It's a little bit more low-key for me, but there's still elements of racism and classism within the media, for sure. Do you think in the tabloids? Especially the red tops. Oh, come on. Are you not a fan of the Sun? Who is? You know, I love Liverpool. You can't buy that fucking newspaper in Liverpool. Yeah. God forbid you get seen walking down. They made a stand. They did. Like most of us should, really, because they're kingmakers. You know what I mean? We all know that.

45:37You know, they get people in power. They fancy how they like. You get in bed with them, they will get you in government. If they don't... Who, the son? The son, especially. It's still owned by Murdoch, isn't it? Yeah, well, that's right. He controls most of our media, doesn't he? And why is he still alive? I mean, what's he jacking himself up with, Luke? You know, this guy's still shuffling around, fucking making these huge decisions. And, you know, it's heavy stuff. And I don't think it's acknowledged enough. Do you play the game with them a bit? Do you have to? No, not in any way, shape or form, and never will do.

46:09I am who I am. I absolutely take responsibility for some of the stories that will come out about me, for sure. A lot of it's bollocks. I'm complete tabloid fodder. Even me speaking to you today, I know this is going to end up in some sort of clickbait material. My publicist is probably sitting out there now, you know, shaking. The bit with the UFO. I wish it was about that, you know, but there'll be nothing positive. They're always looking for salacious shite, aren't they? So, you know, I'm just an actor, really, just trying to feed his kids like everybody else and have a nice life. That's it.

46:37But you were saying that you've got state-sanctioned homophobia, laws against being a homosexual activity. Yeah, that generation. They're still around. There's still an element of that in the air. There's still a generation of that, people still alive. You can't blame them for thinking a certain way when the people that govern us told us that's how you should be thinking. So, you know, some of these ways, I don't blame him for it, you know? But you were saying, so then your dad left, and then you said you'd lost the plot a bit. Is that the term you use? What do you mean by that? I needed counselling.

47:11As a child or a young man? Yeah, because I became really angry and lost and I wanted answers of why my dad did what he did and why he wasn't around anymore because as much as he wasn't tactile and somebody that was very good at being a parent, I loved him dearly and I looked up to him. He was an alpha male and he was in a very alpha world, do you know what I mean? And I'd spend a lot of time with him up the pub. I can't find him at the booger if he was there or, you know, we'd go watch West Ham. He introduced me to West Ham, so now and again we'd have a father's day out. But, you know, all of a sudden he's gone and you're nine.

47:46And you're like, why? And, you know, you take it out on your mum and people around you in school. I was being a twat and fighting and, you know, just completely lost. And so they organised some counselling for me. I think what it was, so when I was nine, I mean, 86 was it, you know not a lot of parents split up even in the 80s they stuck together like there was a mentality even if you hated your partner you stayed together you know you blank each other probably sleep in separate beds you drag your kids up and then maybe if you're brave enough make a decision later in life that you will leave but yeah it just i looked around at me mates and all of their parents were still together and i couldn't understand why mine couldn't do it and your brain's developing, you're struggling and there ain't no answers, is there?

48:37Well, the answer, we know what it is, is that my dad, you know, he fucked it. You know, he had an affair, he got caught out and so he had to leave. But, you know, it really did affect me and I think that... It's when I sort of discovered drama as well and I liked doing drama for some reason even though that was sort of seen as being, you know, homosexual somewhat. But I loved getting lost in pretending to be other people. How did you get into it? Was it at school? It's school, isn't it? It's a lesson in school. School productions. When I went to secondary school, you know, from... What kind of thing was it?

49:11Well, you would have a drama lesson all of a sudden. You didn't really have it in primary school. Yeah. And it's like, oh, well, this is good. You know, I like this hour. I hate maths. I hate geography. I hate, you know, English. Boring. But this lesson, you can go in and you do improvising and, you know, most of the kids felt really uncomfortable and they hated it. I loved it. It was the one class I could excel at. Don't know why. Did you immediately realise that you had something? Like, how quickly did you notice that maybe you had an ability at drama? Never thought that I could ever take it on as a career.

49:45I just felt that, you know... You just liked doing it? It came naturally to me. So how did it become... Nothing else came naturally. How did it become a career? Like, at what point... Because you were doing child acting. Well, I was from a single-parent family and my teacher in school, Mrs Flynn, Jane Flynn, and she was always on me about, listen, you've got to think about this as a career. And you come from East London, there's no avenues. It's got worse now, unfortunately. Working class kids, what chance do they stand? And I knew I would never be able to get into drama school because I didn't have the funding for it and all that sort of stuff.

50:16And she said to me, look, listen, there's a place called WAC, which is a place in Chalk Farm for working class kids. It's not there anymore, I don't think. It's gone. I can't remember what it stands for. It's W-A-C. She'd look it up. And because I was from a single-parent family, I could go for free. Really? That was on a Sunday. Now, I've spoke about this in interviews years ago, and people think I used to go to, and I called it a Sunday school. So people think I was a church girl. That wasn't what it was. I used to just have to get to Chalk Farm, 13 years of age. Quite a long way from the custom house.

50:50Yeah, well, very far. Yeah. And I never really had the money for the train and stuff. I'd just have to bunk the fares and stuff and just get there. Sunday was a lot easier, actually, because sometimes the barriers would be open at Chalk Farm. And I used to get on on the overground at Custom House where there wasn't barriers, so that helped me. And then I would change at Hackney and then jump on the tube. But it was great because I was with like-minded kids who wanted to be actors, whereas when you're doing it in school, it's a lesson that most people don't want to do. So all of a sudden it really brought something out of me.

51:22And I went for a few months, loved it. my favourite day of the week, and then we did a workshop in front of some agents, Charlotte Kelly, her name was, I haven't seen her in years, and she came up to me after and said, I want to represent you, I've got an audition for you tomorrow on the Monday, literally the next day, for Prime Suspect 3, and that's when it started for me, and I didn't even understand what she was talking about, about representing me, I don't know what agents were, but I quite understand what she meant, and she signed me up, and I went for that audition, and Doreen Jones, who's dead now.

51:58She was an amazing, lovely lady. I went and found this door in Wardour Street, got in there. I'd learnt my lines because I found learning lines quite easy. And I played a sex worker. Did you? Yeah, a young sex worker. What sort of... It was Prime Suspect 3, so it was a very controversial one. It was a TV detective series with Helen Mirren. Helen Mirren. Yeah. You had Peter Capaldi in it, played like a drag queen. You had Tom Bell in it back in the day. You played a young sex worker, what kind of catering to men? A homeless kid. Right. And the storyline was about a young sex worker that had been murdered.

52:33Really? So it was 93. Quite a heavy subject. It was really heavy. It was about paedophilia within the police force higher up in the ranks. Really? So it was one that hasn't been repeated a lot. You know, it's an incredible series, Prime Suspect, and Helen Mirren in a pump. And it was such a buzz. It was, I can't explain how I felt. I was like, I loved showing off. And also my dad was my chaperone. My mum obviously had two siblings, so she couldn't come to Manchester with me. So my dad got that privilege. And he came, he got 50 quid a day, he was over the moon. And I got to show off in front of my dad, you know, and he loved it and he felt part of it.

53:09And we was all in the bar, we stayed in the V &A hotel and, you know, it was the days when you could smoke inside and that, and so first time I had a cigarette in front of my dad, I thought, I've earned it now. Consider I'm getting you 50 quid a day, you've had a touch, don't mum when I pull a fucking Benson out. And we would sit up in the bar with, you know, Helen Mirren and Robbie Coltrane was filming Cracker at the same time. He came in and it was like I could see my dad's face being surrounded by famous people and, you know, just this joy. Wow. But it was always like, oh, OK, I love this. How long can I do it for?

53:43You know, that's the key. And you had the feeling of being good at it. Like, did you have technique that you relied on? I don't want to be really prosaic, but to what extent? I mean, it's instinct. It's you read it and you musically in your head go, oh, I can see the beats of this. I understand what's important and what words are really important. So you naturally sort of go, oh, OK, how do I make this interesting? How do I make people want to watch me and listen to what I'm saying? And then the beauty of having a director is that they come in and then tweak you and go, oh, how about this, which is the complete opposite of what my instinct was saying.

54:17I go, I never thought of that. I mean, this isn't my world at all. but they're not supposed to give you line reads, are they? That's considered a faux pas. What do you mean? Oh, say it that way. Oh, no. That's considered undermining? No, they'll give you an emotion. They'll say like bigger, smaller? Maybe smaller, bigger, quicker. That's another one. Speed, pace. Really? And it just makes you, you know, you play it differently with pace. Sometimes you want to take your time more, especially if you've got to cry and find emotion, and you need that time to find it. And hopefully the words are good enough to make you cry if you're really into it and you believe it.

54:55The words, it's the belief of the words or you'd be thinking of something to connect with the emotion. And the situation. Really. You know? And I think I did some really, you know, talking about EastEnders, I did some really good work in EastEnders. I'm really proud of it and the people that I've worked with there. And, you know, I learned a lot from that job and about the speed. and I've just done a film, Louis, where I'm the only one in it. It's called Three Quick Breaths. And I read it. It's 90 pages, just me in an office on the phone. And I read it and it's like an episode of The Twilight Zone.

55:31This guy just has the worst day ever, right? It never cuts away from me. And I read it and I thought, this is amazing. Can I be fucked to do it? Can I do it? Because it's so hard. but it was my experience for me standards that got me through it like learning we shot it in 10 days in Dublin and I had to learn 15 pages a day 12, 15 pages a day so no one to react off I've had an earpiece and you know I just thought can I achieve it in a way going back to Shakespeare maybe this was my Hamlet maybe this was my maybe that narcissist in me thought can I be the only one in a film and they sent it to me the other day I watched it and I'm really proud of it.

56:15I think it comes out next year. But it's definitely an achievement. And I mean, it drove me insane at the end. I couldn't wait to finish it. I didn't see any of Dublin. I would learn my dialogue, 15 pages, go to sleep, wake up in the morning, go to the studio, one set, one room, do it, rap, back. Symbolically, I had my script in a folder and I would rip out the next 15 pages, throw the folder away, sit there, I'd have one pint of Guinness, and I would bam, bam, bam, learn it, drill it, drill it, drill it. This is what actors need to remember, there's no excuses for not knowing your lines, because you need to drill it.

56:56You need to feel like this dialogue is possessing you. It doesn't matter what time you fall asleep, as long as you can open your eyes and recite any line from any point, then you can go out work and enjoy yourself. The ones that don't know their lines, are either really old, and you've got to make exceptions, I just can't be bothered. You don't put your homework in, then you're going to struggle the next day and you're going to hold everything up. You're going to be embarrassed. You're going to feel awkward. Do your homework. It's boring. It's so boring, Learning Lines. And it's irritating. And then does it disappear quite quick?

57:27Can you still recall monologues from movies? No. For me, it's retain, delete, retain, delete. Really? Especially on a show like EastEnders, your brain can't retain that much, so you need to expel it as quickly as you possibly can so that you're ready for the next scene. I mean, you sort of talked about EastEnders in terms of technique, but career-wise, what did it do for you? Saved my career. Absolutely. No-one would hire me. And Dominic Treadwell Collins, who then went on to put me in Rivals, he took a chance on me. Was he the director? No. He was the producer. Producer. Serious producer. They change him every two years.

58:01Why did your career need saving? I'd made so many bad films and bad decisions. My drug-taking was bad. Stop it. Yeah, I was in a mad place in my life. I'd almost fucked it all up. I'd had a good run. I'd made some films, Football Factory, the business. I was on a hire. But I didn't quite know how to deal with it. I'd made some bad decisions. I said yes to stuff I shouldn't have, you know. Were the drugs a solution to the problem or were they the problem? Do you know what I mean? I was just trying to have fun, in a sense, if that's what you do. And it is fun at the beginning, taking drugs. But then when it starts to take over your life and you can't manage your life anymore and you've got children and you're spending all your money on just getting off your head all the time.

58:45It's just... And you want to be. You have a moment of clarity and then you go, what were you doing? But also you sound like you had the stamina to work on a serious... Yeah, but that was my downfall as well, the good capacity for them. I know plenty of lightweights, they were a bit spewy and they just want to go to bed. Wish I had a bit of that about me. And that way I wouldn't have took so many because I couldn't have functioned. so I could function while being off my head. Did you have a sort of drug of choice, as they say?

59:17I did love anything that took me really high and then I would obviously need something to calm me the fuck down, so sort of diazepam and Valium as well. To take you back down? Yeah, it's very dangerous for your heart. Yeah, I was going to say, how's your health? Well, I have check-ups. You look good. I do have a pair of tits and a belly, So does that help? I don't see any tips. A couple of chins. Not at all. Losing my hair. No. That's my health, though. You look good. I have regular check-ups for jobs, you know. Do you work out? No. No, absolutely not. I fast in the day just to keep the weight off.

59:53I feel like if you fast, it's good for your body as well. I mean, ideally, I want to build up to not eating anything on a Monday. Stop it. Just liquids. Really? So your body can start to, it starts to eat itself and heal itself. It's a thing. I just do struggle. Monday's a shite anyway, ain't they? So, you know, you've got to look forward to your dinner on a Monday. But I do fast during the day until the afternoon. You've got to drink plenty of water while you're doing it. And it does work because I think it's the brown fat and the white fat. White fat turns to brown fat and then you piss it out, basically.

1:00:32Which is better than standing in a gym with loads of, you know, people on steroids. What about, are you sober now? Like, are you kind of... No, I've found a thing, and I know there's a lot of recovering addicts out there that will be saying it's impossible to do what I've done. Nick Love being one of them, I'm an exception to the rule. Well, Nick Love is completely on the wagon. He's been 38 years now. 38? He was on Harry Room when he was 17, and he went to rehab, came straight out of rehab, went into film school. But he's obsessed with it still, hedonism and all that, and he writes about it, and he writes for my auto-ego in a way.

1:01:03or his or his ego. So I've managed to... I can drink now. Did you tie one on after the BAFTAs? It was a Sunday night, so it was tricky. Again, when you're at the BAFTAs, you've been to these things. Especially if you win one, everyone wants to have a photo of you and pull you about. It's not relaxing. No, but I was on a high anyway. So it was entirely up to my daughters what they wanted to do. This is what we were going to do. If I would have lost, which I thought we were going to get straight in the car, I was going to get them at McDonald's on the way home. That was the key. But actually, I won.

1:01:36So we stayed and had a bit of dinner. And then I left at about a quarter to 11. Yeah, me too. But there was an after party. Yeah, I didn't fancy all that. No, no. And I had to drive to Bristol the next day. So, you know, it was... And also, I didn't want to taint the night. You stay at these things for too long and you get more and more pissed and you do something or say something where you ruin it all. You're still capable of getting a little bit messy from time to time. It's always in you. It's always in you. It's about recognising it now. I never recognised it before. On Desert Island Discs, you talk about not being able to put your trousers on or take them off?

1:02:09On a moment of clarity, where I had been on it all night, after the NTAs it was. National Television Awards. I think I'd won. And that's always on like a Tuesday or something. And I had to go to work. There was the other thing about with EastEnders, you know, they go, yeah, come celebrate NTAs, but you are up at seven in the morning. So anyway, I'd just overdone it again and I just could not work out how to get my jeans on. Which part of it? I was just sitting on my ensuite toilet trying to work out what leg goes in what. I don't know why. I'm sure I've had many of them moments over the years of me being completely off my head, but that one really resonated with me and it was more because I looked up, my wife was just watching me and she looked shattered and she looked ill.

1:02:57and of course, you know, the drug taking and the madness that comes with it, you're destroying yourself and your body and you're slowly killing yourself, but you're also, you're really upsetting the people around you. And that was, I just looked at it, even through this moment of, it was off my head, but it was just, everything seemed to just sort of go, what the fuck are you doing to people around you that love you? And it was that moment, and I could hear Artie, my son who's now 11, he must have been three, he was running around downstairs and i think i'd got rid of the last straggler out of my house it would well it would have been about half six quarter seven what in the morning yeah so you've been yeah well that's got work so i had a car picking me up to take me to work um and and it was just this moment i thought you're gonna die you're gonna you're gonna kill yourself you're not happy you're spanking all your money on drugs you're destroying everything around you.

1:03:52It's weird that moment because I went straight to work that day and I was a bit off my head and I did say, listen, I need help. I can't do this anymore. I need help. I don't know what it is. But I need to, this is a crossroads in my life where I need a gear change and I need it now because I'm going to survive this year. And so, you know, I want to give a shout out to Louisa Bradshaw White who played my sister, Tina, who really came to the front for me, more than anybody else. Well, put an arm around you and said... Well, she'd always said that she thinks I've got an issue and problem. No-one else would say that to me.

1:04:30People, I don't know, people don't want to busy their self in your life either, whatever I'm represented. Big statement to say to someone you've got a problem. Yeah, but I had that from Nick a lot, who obviously, you know, had been in recovery and he could see signs in me, and of course, you know, I'd be like, oh, whatever. It's only when you actually realise you have to... You have to really have a moment yourself that you should never go into recovery for other people. It should be doing it for you to be a better person. But she had always, whenever you're ready, just let me know. That was always her vibe with me.

1:05:03And then I was ready. I wonder if she'd been through something or had... She has. You know, she's had issues, like a lot of people have, really. And a lot of people in my life, you know, I've seen a lot of people go through some quite heavy stuff and always thought, oh, fucking hell, that's quite heavy. God, glad I'm not that bad. It turns out I was. It just took me a longer route to get there. It's about taking ownership and all that wave of destruction you've left behind you. Hopefully you can make amends to people and just be a better person. Try and be around for as long as you can. But when you came out, presumably in rehab, they say, no, you've got to quit it like this.

1:05:39It doesn't work. No half measures. Do they not say that? Yeah, no, that's the theory. If you do the 12 steps, of course, absolutely. and I think that is the case. For me, I had other issues. I needed a lot of therapy about why I was doing what I was doing and I spoke about this recently, about abandonment issues and stuff like that and role models leaving me and me wanting to press the fuck it button and fame really fucking my head up. So I got some answers that I needed. I did live by it. I tried the 12 steps. A lot of admin for me. It works for people. It saves people's lives and I know living proof of that.

1:06:16it's almost like it's a spiritual awakening where you hand over your life to a higher power and say, I can't manage it, so I'm going to hand it over to whatever you want it to be and I'm going to trust the steps. Did you do that? I did it for a bit, yeah. You said Harold Pinter might be your higher power. He is my higher power. I do feel that he is definitely something, being someone that was... I quite like the spiritual aspect. I'm not a religious person, but I like the idea of someone watching over you and just sort of dragging you by the fucking collar now and again through certain moments.

1:06:57Why him? I just think that we had a mad bond. He was somebody who came into me as a bit of a father figure for a period of time and spoke to me in a way like no one else had the bollocks to. Really? And got me. And, yeah, it's weird. And then I fucked up again. And, listen, this man... Do you mean the New York incident? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been well rehearsed. You talked about it, but basically you did a play with him in New York. I let him down. You discovered crap in New York. Yeah, I did, yeah. I'd never been to America. And froze up on stage. And all of a sudden I'm on Broadway, you know, and I got involved in shit I probably shouldn't have.

1:07:35Well, I shouldn't have. the arrogance of me thinking I can puff on a, you know, crack pipe and then walk straight on a stage and do pinto. It's just ridiculous, you know, but I learnt the hard way with that. Were you curious to try it or were you trying to manage some anxiety issues? I just loved getting off my head. That's the truth. And the thing about when you do a play, theatre, such a mad existence, you don't quite know what to do with yourself all day. You're flitting around. You don't want to eat too early or too late. You know, you've got to get into town for a certain time and then you hit your call and then, you know, you build up to do the show and then you do it.

1:08:09Even when you're knacking the adrenaline that's running through your body and then the show closes, say, half nine, ten o 'clock and your adrenaline's still going. So what do you do with yourself? Do you know what I mean? It's like this high because, you know, ideally you'd like to do the play and a lot of actors do that. They've got a technique of calming down, go home, have a cup of tea, go to bed, it all starts again. It's a cycle. And I suppose when you've been doing it for as long as we've done that play, I knew it back to front. I thought I could get away with it. Which play was it? It was called Celebration.

1:08:38It was the last play he wrote. Was it? It was all set in a restaurant like the Ivy. He was sort of taking the piss out of the Ivy and the bollocks that comes with the people that frequent it. And I played the waiter and it's a brilliant piece of work. It cuts between two tables and I sort of link it together by bringing food out every night. It was a wonderful piece of work and it was really an ensemble piece and I let everybody down. I've never, I've still, I've still not over it. Let them down how? Well, when you dry on stage, and it does happen, by the way, people dry. Yeah. It's a hard gig.

1:09:16You're not just letting yourself down, you're letting all them down, aren't you? They know their lines, they're sweet, they're on it, and then you don't know your lines, so you leave them in a situation where, you know, because they was all looking at me, fuming, going, go on then, prick. I think they knew I'd been out. So they're sort of going, well, you've got yourself in this mess, and I didn't know what to do, I was going to walk off. And then Andy De La Torre, who was at the table that I interjected in, said, oh, I bet your grandfather knew C.S. Lewis, something like that. What prompted you?

1:09:44Yeah, and then I went, oh, yes, yeah, he did. And then, of course, my repetition of doing it so much, I said it and done it, hated every second of it. All of a sudden, I hated acting, hated myself. It was such a powerful moment for me that I never really recovered from it because I never used to get nervous before any play I'd ever done. I was always well drilled and I loved it and loved showing off. And then when it went really badly wrong for me, any play I've done since, I've shat myself every night because I know the feeling of when it goes wrong. Of course, I look after myself now and I'm not in my dressing room with a pipe banging out of my mouth, so very different to now.

1:10:25But it's still there, that feeling of vulnerability and the blood rushing from my feet to my head, I always remember it, of going, oh, my God, everyone's waiting for me to speak. And just sort of shrinking into myself, which as an actor, once your confidence has gone, you're done. Do you think the audience could tell? No. Really? Well, the great thing about Pinter is he's known for pausing, isn't he? That's it. So, no, no-one knew. Only me and the cast, and, of course, Harold, who sort of put his arm around me and made me feel worse because he was sort of being passive-aggressive with me. Really?

1:11:01What did he do? Well, he just sort of said, if ever there's an ensemble piece, Danny, it's this. You do need to get to bed. And I was like, oh, he knows. Because I went straight through. I remember coming back from wherever I was. It was in Soho. I remember sucking on a pipe and looking at the clock and it was quarter to two in the afternoon. Thinking, shit, I've got to be on stage at six. On a crack pipe, do you mean? Yeah, and then got back to the hotel because we were all staying in the same hotel praying. I didn't bump into Harold in the fucking reception. Just get to your room and hopefully you can fall asleep.

1:11:35It would have been quarter to two in the morning. In the afternoon. Oh, stop it. Yeah. Oh, God, no, that's an early night. Really? Quarter to two in the afternoon, you were on the pipe? I'd been on it all night, yeah. I'd finished the play. On your own? We'd done it. No, I was with other people. Should we draw a veil over that part of it? Well, you know. Who would have been just local characters? No, no, no, I knew people out there. So it was... What, expats or you'd found a little crew that... Other actors and stuff. Really? But, you know, you live and learn through these experiences and I had to take full responsibility for it and I, you know, punished myself.

1:12:14You know, there's a lot of people that would have gone missing. I did have an understudy. It's almost worse if you do that and the way the other actors hate you more for using an understudy, you know. So I just thought, no, no, you've got yourself in this mess. You knew that you were in trouble when you arrived. But I thought, do you know what? You've done it enough. Yes, you're wired. But you can do it. You know, you're bulletproof. And it turns out I weren't. And it's stuck with me ever since, you know. So, you know, I'm due theatre again when I've got time. And I do want to get back on the horse.

1:12:51I've done a couple of stuff. I did the Dunwaiter in 2019 with Martin Freeman. That was a two-hander. Was it? Yeah, it was amazing. That's a great Pinter play. That's about the two men... I would say to anyone out there that doesn't know about Pinter, read The Dumbwaiter first, and then you'll go, oh, I quite like this, and then you can start getting into The Caretaker and all the other stuff that you do. Caretaker, I did that one at school. Birthday Party's another one. Birthday Party. I mean, The Room's a great one as well. The dialogue's incredible. It's so conversational, which is what dialogue should be.

1:13:17Yeah. And it sort of really rolled off my tongue quite easily, his dialogue. Yeah. Really clever, his work. It's like when you do one of his plays professionally and you put it on in the West End, the audiences are so different because there's always this humour running through it, but there's also an element of dread. And some audiences cling on to the humour and they're laughing and they're rolling around. The same play, by the way. You know, you've got to wait. They're laughing so much for your next line. And then other nights, just silence. Same dialogue, playing it the same, but they cling on to the dread and the undertone instead of...

1:13:58And it's quite off-putting. That's what's made him so clever to me and such a genius. You know, I would love to have got into more fear, I think. There's no money in it, though, Louis, I'm going to be honest. It's weird, that, because you bare your soul on a stage every night. You put your bollocks off. It's the hardest thing for any actor to do. I don't care who you are. But you don't get no money. What about Hollywood? Yeah.

1:14:27Well, I don't know. I did go over there years ago and did the whole classic, you know, I'm the next big thing. And I just couldn't be bothered. You did a bunch of meetings? Yeah. Got an agent, manager, lawyer you've got to get. That's right. But they wanted me to live there for six months and I had, you know, small children. and I hated the fact that they wanted me to speak American all the time, which is what you're meant to do out there. Everyone thought I was Australian. Did they? So I was constantly just having to... Were you supposed to take meetings and speak American? Yeah, they encouraged you to.

1:15:03Could you do that? No. Yeah, you could. I couldn't be bothered. Can I be bothered? How desperate do you want to be? I mean, I understand that's where the work is and that's the ultimate, but can I be bothered to go and live out there on my own, talking American all the time to everybody, pretending I'm someone else. Nah, can I be fucked? So anyway, the other way... Can you do a good American accent? Well, American's not the hardest to do. My name's Danny Dyer. My name's Danny Dyer, and I'm here with Louis Farouk and his podcast. Yeah, of course, American's not hard, but it's doing it all the time.

1:15:41Anyway, we've got to wrap this up, then, we. We've got to wrap this up, yeah. Thank you for that, Danny. I really appreciate it.

1:15:58welcome back how are you doing i hope you enjoyed that that was a lot of fun having danny in the house um a little bit chastening at times to be reminded of oh how do we put it well we compared our documentary making techniques and danny wasn't shy about letting me know that I'd be limited, right, in some respects. He said I'd be fair game on a traveller site, and he couldn't imagine me having a fag hanging out or swearing, and that I'd be tight with the old bill, go to a dinner party with some DCs. I don't think he quite got my number. I mean, I plead guilty to being leading a kind of ivory tower existence, swanking around show business parties.

1:16:51I'm not that tight with the old bill. Would I, what do they say? Thing like a canary. Would I snitch? Would I drop a dime on, that's the American expression any would-be malefactors would I try to shop am I a dobber? I don't think so well but am I? actually maybe I am if someone's getting up to no good you do call the police don't you? is that dobbing? perhaps I am a dobber but I wouldn't dob on like if I was making a documentary I don't think you're making a film then it's different, different rules Um He'd eat you like a Yorkie bar Still working on that accent That was Paddy Doherty If you've been affected by the topics discussed in this episode Spotify do have a website for information and resources Visit spotify.com slash resources I think that's it except for credits The producer was Millie Chu The assistant producer was Artemis Irvin The production manager was Francesca Bassett and the executive producer was Aaron Fellows.

1:18:03The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.