S7 EP3: Lulu discusses alcoholism, marrying a Bee Gee, and David Bowie’s thighs

29:17Because you went back to work. Because I was a working mother. I was a working mother, and I'm an obsessive, compulsive person. I am a workaholic. I have all these... I have good tendencies, but also I have negative tendencies that have had to have been looked at. and I've tried to work on them and sort of make them less extreme. You think you're OCD for real or just sort of anecdotally? I've not been diagnosed but I can tell. Go on. I can tell. Give me an example. Well, if I come into a room and there's pictures all over and they're all skew-whiff, I will straighten them. I can be, you know, really bossy and controlling if I want something done in a certain way and life challenges you.

30:01So I've learnt from my mistakes, you know, from the difficulties and from the hardship. You know, like everybody, we learn as we get older. We talked a little bit about alcohol. I know you've been open recently about struggles you had. I know you've been sober since 2013, is that? I haven't had a drink since 2013. You say, though, that you were disciplined in your drinking. Yeah, nobody ever knew. You said, I was as disciplined about my addiction as I was about my work. Mm-hmm. You say, I turned up and delivered throughout the years when I was drinking. Well, that's the explanation. In other words, you were able to compartmentalise it.

30:36I was a high-functioning alcoholic for many years. So you were drinking sort of between six in the... Were you able to kind of... I was drinking when I wasn't working. But you were working all the time. I'd go home and drink. And then you'd get home and drink, and then weekends, would you start earlier if you weren't... Weekends don't... Weekends don't mean anything to me. In show business, that's meaningless. In the music business, you work. Would you ever drink in the morning? No, I never did that. That's how disciplined I was. So you'd start maybe at lunch or in the afternoon if you weren't working?

31:07Most of the time it was evening. Do you mind talking about this? Not at all. What was your drink of choice? At the end I think I liked white wine, champagne I liked, but, yeah, white wine was kind of a regular thing. And would you... I'm trying to get a picture of it because actually it may be... You know, it's not like there's an exact definition of what constitutes abuse, right? Like how much is too much? When do you know that you've got a problem, right? Well said. So you would keep drinking and then what would happen? You just keep going or at a certain point you would turn in? I think the point was that in view I wouldn't be a drinker.

31:45So I would sort of get home and I'd open a bottle and I'd start. I mean, that could go on. I don't... And finish a bottle? I could... Oh, yes, I could finish a bottle. Two? I probably could, but, you know, I never would count because after a bottle, I don't think you remember. You know, I had such shame about being an alcoholic because I watched my father and, you know, I noticed that that was his demise, you know, the drinking. In what way? Well, because he would fight with my mother and he would say things and she would say things and they would, it would, it was disturbing. but the other side of my father was a loving, funny, great singer, you know, a man with a big heart.

32:33So I did not want to be like, I never want to be like my father. What happened? I turned into my father's daughter. You know, I was a drinker. So I would do it secretly because I had so much shame. That shame burns you, burns you deep. It's a horrible thing to walk around carrying secret secrets. It doesn't sound like it affected your personal relationships, though, in the way that... I think it must have affected everything. Of course. My sister at one point said to me, she thought, I thought I'd lost you. I knew there was a problem. I didn't know what it was. And then she found out. We mentioned Jimi Hendrix.

33:13That performance is amazing. It's quite an eye-opener. and I watched it just before this conversation, to see how almost avant-garde and free-spirited he was. He was. And that whole band, Mitch Mitchell on the drums, is it? Bashing them to bits. And he's doing Hey Joe and then they go into a cream track. It's completely wild and carnivalesque. There's a picture of you, maybe in one of your books or somewhere online, of you hanging out with Jimi Hendrix. Did you get to know him quite well? I wasn't his best friend. But you know what my feeling is? that Jimmy wasn't a complicated guy because when you met him, he was actually a southern gentleman.

33:53Right. And pleasant, you know, relatable, easy. And I always got along with him. It was lovely. And he apologised after the thing on TV which... Because they overran. Is that what happened? It was live in it. Well, they went, what happened at the BBC, darling, is that they decided to ban him. They thought we'd teach him a lesson. made him more popular. For what? Doing what he did for being a naughty boy. And playing the wrong song. Yeah, and going over his time. Right. And he said, Lou, I don't hope this didn't affect you, because they had got a big backlash from it. He and the band, Jimmy and the experience.

34:36Yeah, they banned them. The BBC, they wouldn't play him on the radio, they wouldn't put him on any television shows. But I think it made him more popular than ever. And it's probably the most watched piece of any show I've ever done. I mean, all over the world, people come to me and say, Lulu, we saw you. It's so sweet. So God bless him. Zooming out for a second, musically, there's this sort of sense of, are you pop? Are you rock? Are you R &B? Right? I think that's been an issue, actually. And you haven't always known. Exactly. And you see, there's a bit where you're talking about Nina Simone and Jimi Hendrix.

35:12You say they were unapologetically authentic. Themselves. They were pushing boundaries. And not trying to please anybody. I'm a bit of a people pleaser. I felt more and more hemmed in, too scared to go against the force of the people above me. The trouble is, though, it's impossible to be authentic when you don't truly know who you are yet.

35:34I would still go by that. And I think it's from being a child and having to change who you are, the name, the style of singing, the way I spoke, and my personality, holding back, you know, and not just being raw. Fear. I have fear. You know what it is? I feel emotion coming up when I'm about to say this. I want to be loved. I don't want people to dislike me. I want people to love me. So I became a people pleaser very early on in life, and I wanted to stop the violence and the noise and all that stuff as a child. So I would do as much work, iron my father's shirts, do housework for my mother, appease them in as many ways, look after my siblings.

36:36when I went to work, I'm a pop singer all of a sudden. I've got success and I've got to gather more success because I had nothing to lose at the start, but once you become successful, then you've got to analyze it, strategizing, all of that stuff. I was a business. So I had to run it like a business and I had to behave in a certain way. So there was a part of myself that sort of got pushed down and I became more polished doing Saturday night television. But when I sing, I'm not so much polished, although I should be at this point in the game. And actually, I'll tell you another thing. I never spoke when I sang when I was younger.

37:14Now I have dialogue because I have a story. You're talking to the audience. I have a story. I've had a life. And I know that the people in the audience, I have stuff that I can relate to with them. And a lot of it is through the music. So it's kind of magical in a way. And that's another reason why I have to get up on stage. My aim, my modus operandi, is for everyone to walk out and say, I didn't think it was going to be that good. That was great. Wasn't that great? I feel better now. And you've taken your shoes off at the door and you've pulled your trousers up and you're sitting with your legs crossed.

37:51You're having a good night. That's my job. And that I think I can do. So I hope to continue doing that until I drop. because I get from it, the audience get from it. It's a win-win situation. Shall we touch on David Bowie? Not. Your version of The Man Who Sold The World is the one that actually brought that song to fame. I hadn't realised. People know his version as well. Of course they do. If they're big Bowie fans. Yours was a hit first, right? Yeah, I don't know if he put his out as a single. We should say that you had a relationship. That's not... I had a brief relationship with David. I had a fling, exactly.

38:33You talk about his thighs. Well, that... Not his size. His thighs. Come on, people. I'm glad you clarified that. I think you don't have to have had an intimate relationship with David Bowie to know he had the best thighs. He and Naomi Campbell. Well, we could see his thighs because... He was always showing them off. He was always in tights, wasn't he? Oh, no, he wasn't in tights. He never wore tights. Well, he did occasionally, but he would often come on like he had a swimwear. You put it on and you go, Jesus, look at that. What was so special about them? They're very strong thighs. Was he a stutter or you have to be a...

39:10He was a stutter. He was a stutter. Did you winch him? I winched him. You did more than winch him, I think. You were drunk. One thing led to another. The great part is it was after you... I can't say, you know, when you say drunk, I mean, sometimes you think of something falling all over the place, right? I would like to clarify my inebriation. I had been drinking but constantly elated with the conversation we were having, which went on for the whole bloody night. About what? Talked about, oh, we talked about everything. At Buddhism, we talked about music, people we like, songs we like, singers, music, instruments, who's the best guitar, all that.

39:51The things that we were interested in. And we were actually very much on the same page about a lot of things. The famous thing that, yeah, he said to me that night was, I'm going to make a fucking hit record with you. He said, first of all, though, he prefaced that with, the record companies don't know what to do with you. They don't know what to do. They don't get you. They don't get your voice either. I'm going to make a fucking hit record with you. He thought I was caught stuff, you know, and I was absolutely blown away by that because my brother and I were mad about the album Hunky Dory. This would be what year?

40:35It was 70-something. It must have been 75 because you would have not been in a relationship. No, my relationship with Morris was over. Your marriage with Morris Gibb had broken up, so you were free. It was all perfectly respectable. You were a free woman. I haven't seen John Frieda, though. Oh, were you? I was, yeah. You were in a relationship with John? Yeah, I was. Does John know that? Brand new. Does John know that? that you had a fling with David Bowie. Well, if he didn't, he knows now. No, he knew. Did you have a hall pass for Bowie? No, no, he knew and it was an issue. It was quite painful.

41:10It was at the Hotel Lobby in Sheffield, I've written now. Yeah. The best concert you'd ever seen. I couldn't believe how... There was a party afterwards. He invited me to the show, then afterwards he said, come to the party, everyone was upstairs, the piano was there, everybody was sitting. It was a real party, the kind of party that I was used to as a child. Angie, his wife, knew, but she didn't seem to mind. I don't even remember her being there. I'm sure she wasn't in the room. No, she wasn't in the room, but the point with them was that they had a very open marriage. Yeah. Can I read something, what you wrote?

41:47Actually, it's perfectly innocent. Something what I wrote? Yeah, something what you wrote. He had a reputation for being very sexually adventurous, and I'm sure that's true, but with me he stayed within fairly normal territory. That's all I'm going to say. What's fairly? Don't ask me to explain. Don't be ridiculous. Can't you tell that I would never go into details like that? In fact, can I even remember? That's another question. If you'd had sex with David Bowie, you'd hope you'd remember. Or indeed with Lulu. I'm sure he remembered every moment of it. All I remember about the thing was that it was like a lot of my life, to be honest with you, Louis.

42:20It was all a blur and pretty fantastic. and surprising and... If I just think of a person, a 14 or 15-year-old, doing what I did, getting the successes that I had, meeting the people that I worked with, marrying a Bee Ge, you know, it sounds phantasmagorical. And, you know, the Sidney Poitier film and the boom-bang-a-bang, you know, let's not even go there. It's so hard to... We're going to finish Bowie. So basically that became a number three hit, your version. That was after the Boom Bang A Bang. It was after Boom Bang A Bang. We're jumping around. I do jump around. I'm sorry. Lulu in 1969 won the Eurovision Song Contest representing the UK with her song Boom Bang A Bang.

43:15Not one of your best songs. Your vocal performance is non-paree. You're such a schmoozer. I think you yourself would admit it's not. It was a simple sort of nursery rhyme. And the chorus is, my heart goes boom, bang, bang. It's a perfectly constructed song, let me tell you. But it's quite simplistic. Yes. It's not soulful. It's not gospel. It's not rock and roll. It's pure pop. And it was directed at a lot of people who don't speak English. Right. that would be Eurovision for you? I mean, I've analysed this up the wazoo, believe me. Why, why, why? And it's quite obvious when you think about it.

44:00What have you analysed? Why did that one win? There were a lot of songs. In fact, there were four winners. There were four winners that year, joint winners. You see, it's a bit political, let's face it. Are they allowed to have four winners? No, no, they've never had four winners since. That really threw them. What was going on? What was political? Well, you know, we'd won quite a few times and it was like, forget about it, you're not going to win again. The UK. Plus the pressure was on you because you were an established artist and Eurovision was more catered to newcomers, right? So it must have been odd.

44:33For you to go in there as Lulu and not win, it would have been suboptimal, right? I don't think it would have ruined my career, but you fear that it will. You fear it. But it's not like being an unknown where, you know, the only way is up. Let me tell you why I did it. because the head of the BBC said to my manager, she's doing a series, now we want her to do the Eurovision Song Contest in it. She has to sing six songs, new songs, one every week for six weeks. The British public will choose the song. She will take it through to the finals in Madrid. Was it Madrid? So it's the song, but you are, you know, you're the one who carries it.

45:14You contain it. You deliver it. You perform it. so you have to pull your weight. It's like a 50-50 thing, the song and the performance. And what it did for the television series, and he told us, your ratings will go up. They were doing well but they went through the roof because the British public were fascinated and they had to take part in it. And if it wins it will, you know, make you more known throughout all of Europe if you're not. So there was a lot of things that were It was a good gamble So there you are I was at the mercy I was at the mercy of the BBC But it didn't do me any harm But as I said before I probably did Saturday night TV for too long If I'm thinking I neglected my music That's where I maybe didn't judge very well But a lot of people said to me too You should have lived in America Why did you not go there when you were so huge over there Well, simple.

46:17My manager had children. They were all at the Lycée Francaise. She couldn't take them out. Her husband wasn't going to go there. I wasn't going to go without her. By my lonesome? A teenager? No. Oh, listen, we can take this out if you want. I have to ask. So early 70s, you're on TV. I made two programs about Jimmy Savile. Did you ever hear rumors? Did you ever run into him? Of course I'd run into him. He was everywhere. but I never had a, he never, no issue. He was weird. There was no doubt about it. I mean, I couldn't believe how he was so successful. I used to think, how is this man so successful?

46:55He's ridiculous. Well, I thought he was ridiculous. He had a big personality. I would never voice, listen, I would never have said that then. Why not? Oh, my God. No, I had to, I was taught very early on. I had to think about what I was going to say before I said it. And my mother used to always tell me to be secretive. So I am very outspoken But I have been trained To within an inch of my life To be careful Because he was the big man on campus Yeah, he was a big man, he was one of But he was always around He certainly had nothing to do with me I was a child What was I going to do If I said I didn't like him They were going to I never got I mean, I was never confronted You never went on You never went on Jim will fix it I don't mean as a child I may have done I can't remember But I, listen Marion Massey was by my side Always I'm sure you understand why I'm so grateful to her and why I really, because I could have been a girl who was drawn in or dragged into, although I've got a feeling that I had kind of, because of my childhood, as I mentioned to you, if you come from a dysfunctional childhood, you become very alert.

48:03Right, observant. Why? Because you're reading signals the whole time. You put it better than I did, yes.

48:23This episode is brought to you by Moneybox, the award-winning saving and investing app trusted by over one and a half million people. Do you remember your school days? I do. All the things you learned that turned out not to be that useful. I spent years learning Latin. I can still decline many verbs. Actually, you conjugate verbs. You decline nouns. Puella, pualam. I could go on. Anyway, in case the only thing you remember from school are random facts and information that's never proved helpful in the least, here's today's lesson from our friends at Moneybox. The end of the tax year is coming up and now is the time to get your finances in shape.

49:02That was me working out my finances. Every adult in the UK has a tax-free ISA allowance each year. of£20 ,000. But any unused allowance doesn't roll over, so if you don't use it by the 5th of April, you'll lose it. If you want to take advantage of brilliant interest rates this year, check out Moneybox. You can earn a market-leading interest rate with a Moneybox cash ISA. Customers rate Moneybox excellent on Trustpilot, and opening a cash ISA takes just a few minutes. So if you've been putting off sorting out your savings, now's the time. Open a Moneybox cash ISA in the app or at moneyboxapp.com.

49:42ISA and tax rules apply. Market leading based on moneyfactscompare.co.uk. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete. I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make it to the Olympics or be blasted off into space. As it happens, neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Ah well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever.

50:23It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing to product descriptions to sales. The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S. That's shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S.

51:03Let's talk Bee Gees just for a second. Oh, let's, please, let's talk Bee Gees. One of my favourite, favourite subjects. Really? I love them. That music is simply divine. You pop up and there's a great, I recommend it, documentary made by Frank Marshall. You're there paying tribute to Morris, who is your husband. And for people out there in Radioland, it's maybe easier to say, everyone knows there were three Bee Gees plus Andy, the little brother. Barry was the one with the big hair and a beard. Barry looked like a movie star. Yes, of a very 70s sort, sort of medallion man archetype. Even before, yeah.

51:47Earl Flynn he looked like. Robin, he had so long hair, long wavy hair. He was the younger brother and his twin was Morris. It's sometimes said that Barry... Morris was losing his hair. He was losing his hair. Yeah, but he had a beautiful face. Nice-looking young man at the time. Beautiful face and a big heart. Robin and Barry, the two main vocalists, did you know that Robin and Barry apparently, they would feud and sometimes would only communicate through Morris. Morris was like the calm centre. Yes, he was the middleman, always the middleman. And I think he felt undervalued a lot and not as talented as them either.

52:28So he would be a little more careful. They wouldn't be as careful about what they said to each other. And they were brothers. I mean, do you have brothers? I do, yeah. Did you ever fight with them? Of course. That's part of the job. Exactly. So that's what would happen with the Bee Gees a lot. But, you know, you take away all the stuff around the periphery. What are they known for? where is their heart and soul in music and some of the best music we've ever heard that will live forever. The dance period, I mean, it would lift you up. You just couldn't sit still. Saturday Night Fever. All of that.

53:07No, no, no. You know what? God, Barry, don't hear this. He will be ashamed. No, I think he'd be proud to know that we were paying tribute. I mean, the music. But then, of course, before the dance fever, there was... Well, they did. To love somebody. I get goosebumps. I've got goosebumps. Even just thinking about it and singing those words. That was my mother's favourite. They were born in the Isle of Man, in Douglas. Yeah. Yeah, they were. That's a random fact. I actually... But then grew up in Australia. But I call them Mancunians. I always think of them as being... Because their parents were from Manchester.

53:45They lived in Manchester for, I don't know what the period was. And no matter where they went, they are those Mancunian boys, as take that R. Right. There's the link who you had a number one hit with. That was an interesting, yeah. Interesting parallel. Mm-hmm. You were married from 69 to 75 to Morris. Were you both drinking a lot? Is that what was going on? I would definitely join. You were very young. Yeah, we were very young. And Morris really... You were 21 when you married, 20 or 21. So I was actually going out with him when I was 19. Really? And he would have been about the same age. He was a year and a half, 18 months younger than me, I think.

54:22The quote was, most evenings we were surrounded by so many people that Mo, that's what you called him, and I didn't have to relate to each other. It wasn't a marriage, it was party planning. That's not my writing. Those are not my words, but whoever the writer was, because terrible I can't remember. Your ghost writer. Right, right. More common than you might think, for me to talk to someone about their book and they say, I haven't read that. No, I read it. I read it. You read it? You wrote it? That comes from the first one. Yeah, that comes from the first one because the more recent one I slightly remember more about that.

54:58But yes, I think that's quite a good explanation from someone about observing my marriage. I did fall in love with Morris. I did fall in love with him. We fell for each other. But we were young. Barry said immediately we shouldn't get married. My brother Billy said, you're marrying him? But no kids involved. You know, that's not... Getting separated, divorced... No, it was painful. Painful when you're someone like myself who... I think painful for both. I don't think anyone gets away with it. Painful, I mean, of course I can imagine it was painful. Yeah, separation, I find... Because you really wanted to make it work.

55:37I did, and I felt very responsible for him. I've sort of felt like his mother in a way. I wouldn't have said that then. Why? I'm very maternal. Right. I was oldest of four kids. My parents were pretty dysfunctional. I kind of took a lot of responsibility on them. And I became very controlling because I felt my life was out of control. If I didn't take care of things, I think that's how I went on in life. So with Morris, I felt I should have known. I should have known. I sort of blamed myself. You should have known what? I should have known that we shouldn't have really got married. I should have been able to see it.

56:18It sounded like you tried hard to make it work. But we should have probably. In the 60s, people lived with each other. Why didn't I just live with him and not get married? But where I come from, if you want to have sex with somebody, you marry them. Really? Well, it's not just sex, but I had a sort of relationship, beginning relationship with him. We had a lot in common. We were uneducated. And you know what? We were lonely. Why were you lonely? I think being on the road from a child, from 15, a teenager, it's a lonely life being on the road and you have to manage it. And I think one hopes a lot of the time, I'm thinking of other people too here, but talking about myself, I wanted some sort of stability.

57:06A woman always wants to have a home. So, you know, and he seemed like a good candidate in a moment of madness And to be honest with you, we didn't really give it a lot of thought No It was all about feelings Was it weird then when Saturday Night Fever became one of the biggest albums of all time And I had split from Morris And you'd split from him Yes And then looking on, what did that feel like? I was blown away like everybody else with the music Yes First and foremost Amazing music Absolutely But, of course, I don't know what... I think I had mixed feelings about it. I don't know what. I was nothing but happy for them.

57:44It didn't preoccupy you particularly. It probably did. But remember exactly, I was thrilled for them and I loved their music just like everybody else did and still do. Were Barry and Robin the main songwriters? Maybe you could say that, but I wouldn't like to split them up like that. I would say, except that Barry was... He had a man. First of all, he was the eldest, and he felt responsible for the other two. He was usually in the middle, wasn't he? His presence in the middle of those two little, it was like, you know, you get an engagement ring, the old-fashioned engagement ring. There's a stone in the middle, and there's two little diamonds on each side.

58:23That was kind of like how I look at it. Separately, they were talented, but together, it was something you can't even describe. You can't explain it away. It's difficult to. I remember walking into a studio I talk about this on stage actually Because I've allowed myself to do BG songs Have you? Over the past say 10 years I never did before Do you do A Woman in Love? No That's the one that they wrote for Barbara Streisand I am a woman in love Yeah I was just thinking about how many great songs they wrote for other people So many Chain Reaction for Diana Ross Oh my God And I never really had the confidence to ask them to do that with me.

59:13And yet I knew that they thought I was really talented. Do you mean after you split from Morris? No, while I was with him. Really? Why I couldn't do that. My brother-in-law's family, I just, I never could ask for myself. You feel like that was a missed opportunity? Now I do. Oh, yes. Are you kidding me? to have made an album with the VGs. Oh, my God, why wouldn't that be amazing today? Because you look back at everything they've done, it was brilliant. And I love them, you know. Amazing that it was very touching when you did an audience with Lulu, would be early 2000s, I think, an ITV show. Incredible array of stars paying tribute.

59:52You sing. People in the audience are celebrities. They ask questions. Sting is there singing with you. Yeah. Ronan Keating sings. Elton John pops up and then Morris comes out. And I thought, wow, I found that rather lovely, actually. You did. Yeah, and I wondered whether that was a big deal. And given that he was your ex-husband, not to mention, not much more than a year later, he died.

1:00:24Again, lucky. Because when my director suggested Morris, I went, that's so cheesy, I said, because it was obvious to me that people, I was using Morris, I felt, to ask him, using him because I'd been married to him. People would be like, fascinated, what's going to happen, what's going to happen, what's going to happen? And if I'm 100 % honest, Morris carried a candle for me for a long time. And I felt awkward about using that. Because if he would have divorced me and hated me, I would just say, well, I can't ask him. He doesn't like me. Why would I ask him? I sort of knew in my heart that he would probably jump.

1:01:16And he did. But Morris was a very sweet guy, though. And I didn't want to use him, but I was using him. You know what? now I'm glad because it touched people's hearts. They saw a vulnerable side in him and I and in our relationship. It was also a chance for me to honor Morris by himself without his brothers. And now I'm so glad I got to do that. I mean, even his wife Yvonne said to Linda, Yvonne Gibb said to Linda Gibb, Barry's wife, it was a good thing. It was a good thing. It kind of closed the circle. You know, sometimes you don't, in ending a relationship, you don't say all that you wanted to say or you don't explain yourself or there's confusion or there's misunderstandings.

1:02:04It seemed to close the circle. He was very pleased because he always felt the lesser of the three and him being on the show by himself with me gave him respect. It was respectful and also, I suppose, I can't speak for him. But that's how I saw it eventually. Because I eventually said, OK, OK, OK, I'll phone him. I feel awkward about it and I probably didn't. How was it when you called him? Oh, so easy. Hey, Morris, hey, you know. Had you spoken to him much? Off and on, yeah, off and on. In a friendly way? But not regularly. I mean, like the present husband I speak to every day. The present ex-husband.

1:02:47I was going to say, that didn't come up in your research. search and nobody knew you got married again but i called him he just said when do you want me what time of course i'll be there just so generous um you it's lovely that you mentioned you're on good terms with your more recent ex john frieda yeah hair stylist and well hair care product magnate as well yeah um i've only got your account to go by there were things in that the way that That relationship ended that sounded really painful. Oh. The way, some of the things he said to you, similarly... And when brought back up to him today, he goes, oh, I was such an idiot.

1:03:28Did he say that? Yeah. But I do it too. Don't you do it? Like, you bring up something that I'm supposed to have said or that I did say, and I go, I can't believe I said that. Yeah, yeah. And did you say it? I think I did. What an idiot. I think I did. You know, we're not always our best selves. And that Morris, I think it's an open, not even secret, it's openly acknowledged now that he had a fling with Barbara Windsor while he was with you. I think he's got a son he might have had. It might have happened when we were married. I just found out someone showed me something with a guy and I can't remember the year he impregnated this girl after a one-night stand and he has a son who has had his genes taken.

1:04:06It's proven he's 100 % Morris. While he was with you? I didn't do the math because it wasn't that important. Why isn't it important? Today, c 'est la vie. C 'est la vie. So what's your secret? How do you keep a positive attitude on things that others might regard as betrayals or more painful? Oh, I've worked on that. Really? I've worked on it, yeah. Because I think I used to take myself way too seriously. I know you're surprised at that, but it's true. I think, yes. And it's painful when you take yourself too seriously or when you see the world black and white. Because it isn't. There are many grey areas.

1:04:45And I've learned through trial and tribulation. You know, I've had unbelievable highs, but I've also had a lot of lows, which most people have in their life, for God's sake. I'm no different to anybody else in that respect. So I've looked at it. I've wanted to know why. I'm always curious. And I think that's probably helped me to survive all the ups and the downs in my life. Of the work you've done, what are you most proud of? That I can still do it is maybe what I'm pleased about. Right. Longevity, staying power. That I can still do it because I love it. You have a big date at the Albert Hall coming up, I saw.

1:05:27Yes, I have. So I started Lulu's Mental Health Trust when I wrote the book because it became very clear that myself, I shouldn't talk about my family, but I can generalise. We've all had issues. So I have a trust. the Albert Hall gig which is the 1st of June myself with guests not announced yet just to make it more enticing they're great guests fabulous guests all the money from the profits goes to the charity and I think it's about time I'm a bit late getting out the gate and so I'm full steam ahead with that that's that feels good feels good

1:06:22is a wide vibrato, a narrow vibrato. That was so narrow it was barely there. So you don't just listen and enjoy these podcasts, you learn. You learn about music, musicology, and personality psychology, sociology. I'm just saying words, biology. The Bee Gees doc I mentioned. I've already shouted this out in the chat. How can you mend a broken heart directed by Frank Marshall from 2020? It's well worth a watch. I don't know where I saw it. It might have been on Apple. You can get everything on Amazon. See, I'm not playing favourites with the big platforms. Barry Gibb, if you're out there, and I know you are, consider this an invitation to come on the show.

1:07:06The Bee Gees are amazing. But enough about the Bee Gees. What about Lulu? What a great guest. Her willingness to play ball and roll with my sometimes overly direct. Maybe not. Maybe like winningly candid conversational strategies was appreciated. Winching a starter. I know. Apologies for the Scottish accent. You're thinking that was Scotland? It was a specific region of Scotland where you've never been, so you don't know. different places have different phrases for snogging which we snogging being a English or maybe British do they say snogging in Ireland we've got comments on now don't we we switch on our comments let us know to our Irish fans do you say snogging or more likely would you say shifting are shifting and snogging the same thing and winching in America they say making out that's kind of boring did you make out or they call it first bass second bass third bass I'm not going to describe the other basses calm down getting to know I'm not singing that wasn't a thing that was a getting to know you can't get me for fees on that I wasn't singing can we get away with that when um Lulu started to sing a song getting to know you and then I thought I want to join in, my mind went to what else is from that musical, and then I thought, I wouldn't climb every mountain because I thought it was Sound of Music, but of course it isn't, and you're thinking, no, it's Mary Poppins.

1:08:40It isn't. It's from The King and I. Three of the most famous musicals of all time, and they're all about governesses slash nannies. Is that weird? Is that weird? That's me impersonating myself. A little bit. Why is that such a big thing? Some more information. Did I say that Olivia Newton-John burned out her vocal cords by singing too raucously and rawly? That turns out to be not true. She never had problems with her vocal cords. In fact, the internet tells me that she maintained the same exquisite dulcet tones right to the end of her life. Maria Callas, I said, and worn out her vocal cords. Bing!

1:09:27Correct. Rapid decline in vocal quality beginning in the late 50s due to possibly weight loss, extreme and rapid weight loss, overuse and demanding rolls, medical conditions, emotional and physical strain. Who has the most wide vibrato? Whose vibrato? Don't call it a vibrato. That sounds weird. Apparently, someone called Eileen Farrelly. And then it goes on to say Pavarotti had a very nice vibrato. I'll stop doing that. Vibrato. And so did Freddie Mercury. But get this. I found this interesting. This is Louis just reading things from the internet. Apparently, Freddie Mercury's was so good, it may even have been better than Pavarotti's.

1:10:15Similar, if not more technical mastery from Mercury. So deal with that, Luciano. if you've got a particularly wide vibrato please let us know in the comments and get in touch you don't like that I have to moderate all of those just a reminder that it would be great if you could follow the show on Spotify or wherever you listen it helps people find it allegedly that's it for this week oh apart from the credits the producer was Millie Chu the researcher was Mark Morne the production manager was Francesca Bassett. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. The executive producer was Aaron Fellows.

1:10:57This is a Mindhouse Studios production for Spotify.

1:11:06This episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I was younger, I always wanted to be either an astronaut or an athlete. I was a fast runner. I thought maybe I could make get to the Olympics or be blasted off into space. As it happens, neither of those dreams came true. I had to settle for being an award-winning documentary maker and international celebrity. Ah well, we've all had big dreams and it's never too late to make them happen. This is your sign to stop holding back and go for it, especially if your dream is to run a business, because Shopify is making it easier than ever. It's there to support you every step of the way, from designing your website to marketing to product descriptions to sales.

1:11:48The list goes on and on. So give it a shot. Turn those dreams into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S. That's shopify.com slash louis. L-O-U-I-S.