S7 EP7: Simone Ashley on kissing scenes with Jonathan Bailey, getting kicked out of drama school, and Bridgerton criticism

0:04Hello and welcome to the final episode of this series of the Louis Theroux podcast.

0:18Today I'm joined by actress and Bridgerton superstar Simone Ashley. Bridgerton is of course the Netflix mega hit the fourth season of which came out earlier this year in which Simone plays Kate Sharma, the sharp-witted older sister of the diamond of the season. That will mean something to Bridgerton fans. Her love interest, Anthony Bridgerton, is played by Jonathan Bailey, Johnny to his friends. We talk about that in the chat. And for me, this was an opportunity not just to talk to a talented young actress, but also to dig deep into a series that, to be honest with you, I'd never seen before. I'd seen little glimpses and was always a little baffled, As a historian, if I may, by what seemed to be certain, Libertizia did taken with the historical record.

1:07It's a kind of multiracial take on aristocratic England of the early 18th century. We talk about that. It's kind of politically controversial in some ways. And in other ways, I think people love it for not being overly preoccupied with those themes. Simone's first big break was a recurring role in another of Netflix's big success stories, Sex Education. We don't talk about that. Sorry, there wasn't time. Since Bridgerton, she starred in Disney's live-action adaptation of The Little Mermaid and the romantic comedy Picture This. We recorded this conversation in March this year at Spotify HQ. 2026 is due to be a big year for Simone.

1:52She released her debut EP, Songs I Wrote in New York, last week, and has started filming an A24 comedy film called Peaked, directed by Molly Gordon, who's an actress. Actoresse is my new word. It covers all the bases. From TV kitchen drama series The Bear. She will also star as Miranda Priestly's new assistant in The Devil Wears Prada 2. That's Meryl Streep. Which is in cinemas from the 1st of May. A quick warning, this conversation contains some strong language and adult themes. All that, coming up after this.

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4:20How's life? Life's good, yeah. Good. Good, busy. Busy. You okay to talk about Bridgerton for a second? Yeah, yeah. In case you didn't know, it's one of the biggest hits in the history of Netflix. Apparently, three of the seasons rank in the top 10 most streamed shows on Netflix. Wow. I watched it for the first time in preparation for this interview. Oh, wow. Did you watch the whole second season? Yes. Wow. Thank you. So I was aware as a 56, 55-year-old man, I'm not the demographic as such. Apparently 80 % of viewers are women and probably on the younger side. For people who don't know, and most people probably do know this, it's kind of Jane Austen-esque, but it's not Jane Austen.

5:13It's set during the early 19th century in an alternative London Regency era in which George III established racial equality and granted aristocratic titles, I'm reading this, to people of colour due to the African heritage of his wife. Queen Charlotte. Yeah, that is a show that's about escapism. And, you know, the first season came out during lockdown and people felt fed. It blew up the algorithm. Your romance was sort of the main storyline in season two. It was with you and the character of Lord Bridgerton played by Jonathan Bailey. And you make a great couple. Can I say that? I think a lot of people have said how good your chemistry is.

5:58Yeah, I mean, Johnny, I, you know, learnt so much from him from an acting point, obviously. Right, because he's a little older, so he will have been doing stage stuff. Totally. Oh, yeah. True thespian. He's a veteran. Mm, 100%. So I learnt so much from him, obviously, because we filmed during lockdown, so we were together for like 11 months every day, pretty much. But I think he set a great example of, I guess for a better word, the loyalty to the show. And, you know, it is a show about family and returning home and returning to the family. And just I think a lot of people follow that suit. I particularly learned a lot from that example.

6:45And yeah, now when we go back, there is that environment of coming home and feeling like we're part of a family. I'm not sure if I follow. What's the alternative to that? Isn't that quite natural to feel the loyalty? What would it be like to not be loyal? Do you know what I mean? I can only comment on what me and Johnny have done, and that is we just really make sure that our schedules can just make it work. Oh, I see. Coming back, and I think he flew between Toronto and London back and forth whilst he was filming Wicked. I thank God I've not been filming During the start of this year I've done like eight cities in one month So that would have been a bit nuts to figure out But I would have done it I would have scheduled it in Really?

7:31Yeah What struck me as well is Okay I'm going to sound like such an old fart But so there's Going through it It was interesting to see how much delayed gratification there was Slow burn There's a slow burn Yeah totally Spoiler alert If you haven't got all the way through season two Switch off now I think it's like episode Is it six or seven Where you finally have the kiss And basic Bitch that I am I'm thinking wow they've got a lot of angles on that Yeah That must have taken a while What like the steadicam shots Yeah the steadicam spinning one way There's a steadicam spinning the other way There's an up above That must be a whole morning Isn't it Yeah probably Well, the first kiss is in the church.

8:21Yeah, that's the one I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. No, it wasn't a whole morning. But yeah, it was a shot. And we were filming... Sorry to interrupt you. No, no, please. We were filming during COVID. Right. And we had to... This makes no sense at all. But I guess just for like, you know, to make production feel less anxious, we had to rinse with Corsadil. Right, Corsadil. That used to be a sponsor of the podcast. Shut up. No way. It's such a shame. They should come back. That would have been a perfect grand synergy. But there's no way that that's going to do anything. Anyway. Was that supposed to be a COVID thing, really?

8:59It was a COVID thing. So we would rinse our mouths and then they'd be like, they'd say cut, take, you know, rinse our mouths, put the mask or visor back on and then go back in. Yeah. So that was. So you're standing there with masks and then taking them off to smooch and then putting the masks back on? It was very regimented back then with the masks and the visors. I don't know if it was that regimented. I'm also watching it thinking how passionate, because nowadays people, I mean, this sounds weird. Am I going to say this? Sometimes if there's a kiss, you think, oh, are they going to French kiss, right?

9:35Right. And then is that in the script or how do you decide or would that feel anachronistic? Anachronistic? Do you know what I mean? What does anachronistic mean? It means like it would be not true to the time. Ahistorical. Oh, okay. They didn't do that in those days. Great point. I was told the lead up to that moment, ladies in that time weren't allowed to cross their legs or touch another man. So there were some scenes where I would touch his shoulder, maybe to get his attention or something, and they'd say, you can't do that. So that was really frustrating. I think Johnny and I were so lucky enough that we both had that amazing working chemistry together and we adored the characters and their story so much and really wanted to tell their love story in the best way possible.

10:24It's like you've talked about intimacy coordinators on here before. I think it is important. And I think for a kiss, would you have one? I suppose you would. Would you? I can't remember if we had it just for a kiss. I think the great thing is that we worked together on that. You and Johnny? Yeah. You know, understanding what it was that we wanted to tell in that moment. For sure. Yeah. Hell yeah. Talked a lot about Bridgerton kissing. We have actually. That took longer than I expected. That's okay. It was so interesting. When you come on to that, because that was a big break for you, I think you've been in sex education, but you hadn't been the principal of a high-profile series like that.

11:09Is that massively stressful? It must be quite intimidating. I think it's stressful in the sense, okay, there's a big workload ahead. I knew that we were basically going to be in rehearsals and filming for a year. I love it. I love doing what I do and I felt just so happy to get the job, for one, and to be offered to embark something like that. Of course. And I think I was also so naive to how big the show was that I wasn't that intimidated. Are you in the first season? No. So you were in at the deep end? The first season just came out and it was... Massive. Did you know how big it was when you started?

11:51Yeah, in the sense I knew I could... It was so visible and everyone was talking about it and I knew, you know, how big it was. I guess I just didn't... I'd never really experienced anything like that. So I, which was probably a good thing because I just didn't, even after Bridgerton for a few months, I just didn't really, I wasn't aware. I didn't know. Really? Yeah. So then season two of Bridgerton comes out and I think it's the biggest of all the seasons. That's a great opinion. Have you got a view on that? No, because I. Is that. I think every season shines in its own way. You can't say that, but I can.

12:34I think that's data-based. It's based on something. Haven't they counted the streams? You know what I'm talking about. I'm sure that they have. Would that be unseemly for you to agree with what I just said? I think as a cast member... It's a team effort. As a team member, as a family member... As a human member. As a human member, the sisterhood of Bridgerton, I really think each season It was the best Yours was the best Is that where that was going? Everyone loved it You should watch season four Yeren and Luke What's wrong with season three? Season three's great as well But season four's out now My one note for Bridgerton would be They use the word indeed too much Oh yeah?

13:19Have you noticed that? Now that you've said it That lands It's like How do we make this sound like It was from the early 18th century well it's actually early 19th century isn't it's regency what if you say indeed pass me the coffee indeed oh really oh really indeed no no yeah that's my writer's note that's all right isn't it i said in the spirit of love what's your do you have a note for them as well in case they're listening the writers um if any writers are watching um That is Louis' opinion. Indeed. Indeed. I will visit the Modiste, indeed. You're right. There's going to be memes now, videos.

14:00Indeed. They should be a drinking game. Have a drink every time they say indeed. Yeah, a drinking game. You wouldn't even last 20 minutes. Indeed. I know this, but we were disagreeing about the ton. What is the ton? The ton is like the society. It is, right? Yeah. It's not short for Bridgeton. That's just a coincidence. I think... I don't know. I think so. You don't know? You live there. I know. I know. I'm sure it's in the books somewhere as well. It's short for Bon Ton, apparently, which means like good tone or... Wow, you knew the answer. You're a bit of a poker player. Well, it's no good me answering my own questions.

14:45If only, I wouldn't need to have any guests. I'd just come on and speak to myself for an hour. Indeed. Basically, people love Bridgerton, and then there's a few who don't. There's kind of questions around the whole, the way race is handled, right? Are you aware of this? Because it sort of, it projects a much happier version onto the past, right? There's people get along. There's no real racial prejudice in it. There was a story in the New York Times from 2024, basically kind of giving the alternate view, saying it's a magical multiracial past. Have you thought about that at all? You wouldn't want that to give a false sense of actually how the past was.

15:36You know, there's this alternate version where actually increasing, especially post-2020, like, oh, we need more accountability for colonialism. And we need stately homes to have sections where they're like, actually, it was the slave trade that made this possible. So I guess there's a tension there. I'm wondering, is that something you've spent any time thinking about? About the show? Yeah, right. Like the pros and cons of that kind of fantasy. Yeah, and I think it's totally valid you raise it. It's definitely a conversation a lot of people have around the show. I think, to be specific about the show, this is a show that is about a society of characters that we meet that are incredibly nuanced and are portraying human emotion that we all experience, right?

16:23And one being love and desire. The big one being love. Love and desire. Loving is the high-water mark of living, as D.H. Lawrence said. It's just luxuriating in the intensity of that experience of young love and lust. Yeah. I mean, I love talking about love. I think it's such a shared universal language. And, you know, to be part of a show that is driven by that subject is incredible. And I think this show, you know, that it's colourful, it's fun, it's escapism. It is made to spark the imagination of the viewer, of the possibility of love and family. And I think if you want to watch something that's more fictionally accurate, maybe it's just not the right genre.

17:06It's not about anything else, I don't think. Would you agree? I think I would agree. Let me just see what the guy says who wrote the article. We can watch ourselves speak languages we did not speak in rooms where we were unlikely to have been welcome. We are included, but our actual history is erased. It's valid to have that feeling and thought totally. I don't disagree with it. I guess what I'm saying is this show has a specific purpose and perhaps to explore the purpose of something more historically accurate, there's something else that you must choose to watch. The one quote that stuck out was you've said, I don't want to play stereotypes.

17:53you just want to feel what cast where the role is comes first rather than yeah something it seems to represent yeah i mean look i'd love to do more culturally specific roles for sure but it's not all i want to do i i'm an everyday girl to a degree like i understand like my lifestyle's not fully relatable with what i do for a living but i want to make work that i can relate to things that are just more than my heritage. So good writing, a great director, a great script, great music producer, great storyline, an urgency for something to be told. Like any actor would approach something. Can we talk about your upbringing and what you were talking about?

18:40I knew you're a garlanded, or certainly loved actor. I hadn't realised there was a musical background as well. and also they've sent some music over which I enjoyed. Yeah. Tell me about it. So, yeah, I started singing when I was really young, like six, seven. Did like classical training, piano playing, and then I did musical theatre and I thought musical theatre is what I wanted to pursue as a forever career and I learnt very quickly that it wasn't what I wanted to do. This is when you were how old? Late teens? Yeah, teens, yeah. Because you'd left school at 15. Did I read that? I left home really young.

19:22How old? 15. Did you go to boarding school? No. Where did you move to? I was between LA and London for a long time. Really? Just living with family? Yeah, family, friends. Sounds like there's a story there. There is a story. Are we going to go into it? I did try acting school. I tried drama school. Right. I went to a school in West London. In Chiswick? Yeah, you know the one. I don't know, only from reading the notes. Is it a famous one? I mean, I've got it written down somewhere. It was, I guess it is. You were living in Beaconsfield at this time, were you? I went to high school in Beaconsfield, yeah.

20:03And I was always back and forth between England and California. I had family there. Did you not get along with school? I hated school. I really didn't like school. I had a really hard time at school. I mean, I went to an all-girls school for one, which is just carnage. And I was such a dreamer and I wanted this life beyond high school and beyond the town that I grew up in. That being Camberley or Beaconsfield? Both, both. Both quite nice places, I'm told. Yeah, really lovely. I did a little reading on them. Yeah, I was very privileged to grow up there. Camberley sounded nice since it's in Surrey.

20:48Beaconsfield's in Buckinghamshire. It's a kind of... I mean, that was a stretch for us. I was going to say... My parents really stretched to get us to Buckinghamshire. I googled it and this is a random fact. In 2008, it was the most expensive town in Britain. Yeah, so we could not afford it. But the schools were top-notch, like really good grammar schools around there. My brother went to, like, a really great boys' grammar school. Your dad was a pharmacist. Your mum, an accountant. I'm just chucking these little facts in just to flesh it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were reaching up a bit financially in order to establish you there.

21:30Oh, yeah, 100%. My mum worked round the clock. So it was a girls' day school. Which I failed my 11+. Paint the picture. So they moved all the way there. And my brother's obviously like a genius. Is the older brother, Sean? Yeah. Two years older? Three years. Three years older. And he's so smart and very academically strong. And they moved all the way there. And Sean obviously passed his 11 plus and got into the grammar school. And we got there and I failed. So that was pretty. That wasn't part of the plan. That was not part of the plan. But then I appealed. so I faked my way in. Well, they took another look at your exams and said, actually...

22:15I think appealing is literally when the parents go in and they beg. They literally beg. I'm surprised that works. Well, I don't know. It undermines one's faith a bit. Oh, if you're pushy enough, they will get you in. Yeah. Maybe they were able to shed more light on your winning personality and other assets. Well, I didn't really have a great personality then. I was so... I was not cool. so I don't know. You've said you were rebellious was that later? Yeah I think in the sense of I think it would have been a really safe route especially for my parents to know that I was gonna choose a career go to university get the degree practice and become something a little bit more straightforward yeah so yeah I think I was relish in the sense I made it really hard for my family in the sense I chose to do a career that can be quite expensive to to do to start in and there's no guarantee of money or success and you know there's no there's no dry land you you have tamil heritage do you feel connected to your tamil heritage um sometimes yeah do you speak tamil no do you go back have you been over there at all yeah I used to go back as a kid.

23:30I went to Mumbai a few years ago. I would love to visit India more often and I really should. Maybe I'll go back this Christmas. Presumably your parents had an option to raise you bilingual and then thought, nah. I know. My mum speaks Hindi, Tamil, Tamil. I was saying it wrong the whole time. Well, I've been so westernised as a and English obviously now and all I can speak is English. I learned more German when I had a German partner than I did being raised in an Indian family. But talk about the school and how it was a challenging environment. Did you not have great friends or was it a very, was it cliquey?

24:18So cliquey. I had friends but I just think I spent a lot of my time alone and I think it was a reflection of how unhappy I was that I was always daydreaming about what my life would be outside of all of this. And what would it have been, thinking about what, as an actor, as a musician, singer? Yeah, everything. As a star. Well, I didn't say that. But it's a daydream, you're allowed to say that. Yeah, I wanted something, I wanted a life where I was fulfilling my dreams and my passions and to have fun. and I guess I was rebellious in the sense I didn't like being told what to do. I felt like I was wasting time, which is maybe not a great example to set for any young audiences listening to this, but I found it really hard doing academics.

25:09Did you apply yourself? Did you find the studies difficult? My brother used to lock me in the house because he's a teacher. He's great at teaching kids. I'm not even joking when I say this. he would take photos of like like a forensic of the house to make sure that I didn't get up and not do my studies like so that the tv wasn't like okay it makes him sound like he's crazy but it's actually more of a reflection of how shit I was amazing that he was that invested in your academic success right quite sweet yeah he's not crazy so what were you listening to watching if you had dreams of show business success or whatever it may have been what were you connecting with culturally I grew up listening to a lot of rock um Rolling Stones The Doors Pink Floyd um reggae Bob Marley I grew up listening to yeah my dad has excellent taste in music and then we would listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber's music um and then I I did classical singing from a young age So I sang German lead, Italian.

26:18What's German lead? Singing, German singing. Oh, leader, like the German word for songs? Yeah. Okay. I thought it was like you can sing soprano, you can sing German lead, like that's a vocal range. No, yeah, it could be. Sounds like a German lead. German lead or German backup? Yeah. What about, so was it movies? Were you thinking, obviously now you're a successful actor in TV and movies, so did you have your eyes on that at all? To be an actor? Yeah. Yeah, I grew up watching Tarantino movies from quite a young age. Uma Thurman's performance in Kill Bill changed my life. As a young girl watching a woman of that kind of character, so tenacious and so physically strong, and the storyline being so simple that she just wants to get her daughter back.

27:16Kill fucking everyone on the way. Yes, she does. Female rage. And the way I'm such a Tarantino fan, the way his movies are executed and the soundtracks as well. I just was like, I just want to be a part of this form of work, this line of work. So yeah, I... Have you met Tarantino? Have you? He's retired from movie making, I believe. But don't they say that all the time and then one other one comes out? Do you think so? Do you think it's become like a flex? It's like boxers used to do that and then they'd come back, I'm going to come out of retirement, and now it almost feels like that's just something everyone does.

27:53Rappers do it. Oh, really? Jay-Z retired and then just came back. I'm thinking of retiring just purely to get a bigger payday. Tyson Fury's retiring every couple of years. I don't think that's calculated, but I think it ends up kind of being advantageous. It drives up demand. You should retire. Maybe. Just for like six months. Maybe this is us announcing it. I wonder how long you have to do it before your value, before it kind of kicks in. I haven't met Tarantino to answer your question. I'm not very connected in Hollywood. I hate to disappoint you, but my cousin Justin. Who I know. You may know.

28:26Justin Theroux, for some reason he insists on mispronouncing our name, is in Devil's Wear Prada 2 as well. Was it all right? Did it go okay with him? Yeah, I saw it for the first time on Monday. Would you give him a good review, Justin? Did you enjoy, is he a compatible confrere on the set? 100 % he is a very pivotal character and moment. But is he a nice guy? He is a wonderful guy, really lovely. Is he toxic? Is he difficult? Is he diva-ish? Is he a martinet? No, he's incredibly kind. Not that I'm leading the witness. I spoke to him five minutes before you came in the room. Oh, yeah. And said, I'm about to speak to Simone.

29:09what's the word? And he said two thumbs up. Great. I'm trying to get some beef going, but it's not really working. I've read you, I think Mindy Kaling has been important to you. Growing up, yeah. I look up to her so much and I think she's amazing. But I grew up watching her. Talk more about that though. The idea that for you as a girl, young woman growing up, it would have felt, what, that it connected you to something to see people that looked like you representation yeah though it wasn't really any I never I wasn't self-conscious about it no I I knew that I had dark skin and sometimes I was bullied for it or like it was that you know racial banter within the family like it was just a thing but like I was never in the family well in the sense it's like well you know if I got told off at school my mum would be like well make sure that you double down on this because you're the brown kid and you're easy to pick out and to remember because that's what they will refer you to which one was it oh the brown kid so that's what I mean it was just something that was so normalized in my up that was just what it was but like I it was never like oh I'm never going to achieve my dreams because I'm brown I was so beyond I didn't think that way at all.

30:32And did the school, was it a big deal or not really? Not really. There's some schools in West London that are majority Asian. Like there's certain parts of West London where there's just large Asian communities. Yeah. But it sounds like maybe your school wasn't one of those. Yeah, it was predominantly white. Yeah. But school, I always knew school was just a moment in time. It wasn't a reflection of what my reality would be out in the bigger world. At a certain point you thought, okay, I don't like being at this school. I've gone back to the earlier topic. And I want to pursue my destiny. I want to seek my fortune.