444 - "Do Not Buy A House!" - DO THIS to Build REAL Wealth Instead with Ramit Sethi

27:47Yeah, it is. And it changes over time. You know, like I'm in a stage right now, like my, my parents are getting much older. They, even though they don't have debt, they did not set things up. You know what I mean? And so having to do some cleanup and it's like, it's so important to keep revisiting these conversations because you were talking about even before the camera came on, it's like where you are when you're starting your business versus when you start reaching an age where you're reevaluating and just going like, well, how do I really want to spend my time right now? And you start seeing the clock tick down in a way that you didn't really have awareness of before.

28:19And to be able to not only be really introspective and thoughtful and intentional for yourself, but to keep the person that you love the most in the world on the same page as things shift and change, man, it's so important. Okay. Let's, let's talk about something that you've always done so well is this notion, this concept of invisible scripts. And they're often what shape. They do shape our money psychology. What are some examples of invisible scripts and what steps can we take to start rewriting them? An invisible script is a belief that we hold so deeply that we don't even realize we have it.

28:59It's invisible to us. Two of the most common invisible scripts in America are, you should go to college and you should buy a house. now they might be true for some people for others not but when I raise the question hey do you need to buy a house what if you didn't people look at me like I said the sky is green and the truth is you don't need to buy a house and that's one of the pieces of my work is for the major purchases in your life you really better run the numbers in my case living in New York and LA, I've run the numbers. It makes no financial sense to buy. My wife and I rent by choice. And when people hear that, they're like, what?

29:44And really what it is in America, we deep down believe that renting is for poor people and owning is what you do when you have money. So when they hear somebody who has money, who chooses to rent, they are befuddled, perplexed. huh? What? I mean, if you don't believe me, just call up your suburban parents to just text them and say, Hey, uh, mom, Hey dad. Uh, have you ever thought of taking the bus next time you want to go to the restaurant? Just see their reaction. Trust me. It will not be a normal, uh, reaction like, Oh, I actually prefer my own single car. No, they're going to be like, Oh, the bus.

30:18Because in America, we don't want to do what we think poor people do. I love the bus. It's great. But the point is, these invisible scripts are so deep to us that we don't even realize it. And what if you were freed from the idea that you have to buy a house? I'm not saying it's a right or wrong decision. You should run the numbers and decide yourself. But what if you realize, oh my God, all this guilt and shame I feel for not owning a house. All this money I've been thinking, we need to put it into a house. And then I ask you three questions. Why? Equity. Why? Well, I don't want to pay my landlord's rent.

30:53Why? You don't say that when you go to the sushi owner's restaurant. I want to pay my sushi owner's restaurant. What? What if you actually interrogated these beliefs and started to say, is this right for me? Do I or do my children need to go to college? Maybe, maybe not. Let's explore. Do I need to work this many hours? Or when I'm sitting at home watching Netflix, why do I feel guilty all the time? Do I need to constantly be working? That's an invisible script we often have. What about for you? What are some invisible scripts? Oh God, I love this. I love this so much because I feel like a big part of my life has been trying to ask myself those questions.

31:37And what it's so cool is I feel like some of my answers are changing. Oh, tell me. And that's really exciting. So one of the invisible scripts, and I'm so frigging grateful that my, so you remember the old song, like Shakira, like my hips don't lie. I feel like my body never lies. And so one of the invisible scripts, I think specifically, and I want to ask a little bit about women too. So we'll get there was that, oh, you're supposed to have kids. And I've always known. One of the biggest in America. Yes. That it was not my path. That having like, you know, I have a 30 year old stepson. You know, I got him when he was nine and like, I love my stepson scene, but I've always known that it was not my, so that was one.

32:17I think the other one was around marriage. You know what I mean? And it was like, I love, love. I love Josh. Like he's my person. 22 years. Right. But I was like, I don't know if that script is always going to be there or if it might shift or change, which I'm so open to, but in my life, just out of observation, anything that I've truly wanted, that's felt aligned for, for me, for who this individual being is, I find myself magnetically moving towards it or going like sometimes stumbling and scraping my knees to like get it because it feels like that's for me. And the one that I will tell you that is, has been kind of more recently something that's super up and this is released to money it was probably less than 10 years ago now i got some financial news that blew my mind and i didn't believe it and it was that i didn't have to work anymore yeah and i will tell you the script is so deep about work right and must work must produce adding value yes i work correct and just all of these different things that are like, have been absorbed from culture.

33:22And it's just recently that I'm even beginning to feel comfortable with, do you know what I mean? Within myself, I don't know if any of this resonates, but it's just like, whoa, just watching my own programming starting to, to, to melt. Well, I have to say, I mean, what a fascinating topic. First of all, you have always, to me, seemed like you are very at ease with your decisions and your decisions are not like, I'm going to have red jelly beans. You made big, big decisions in your life that are quite counterintuitive for most people. And you didn't slip into it. Like I know, cause we've known each other a long time.

34:02You were very methodical, thoughtful, careful about them. And that sense of ease is what I love to see. It's like somebody who made their decision, whatever that decision was. Yes. They want to have eight kids or no kids. Yes. Cool. How'd you think about it? Oh, it's right for you. You really wanted it. Amazing. Yes. And you can just feel it. You can sense it. So I totally appreciate that. Yeah. And I just, I, but I love this notion that they're so invisible and they're so deep and just having the courage, like you said, how people will kind of rail, you know, whether it's on your podcast or social or wherever, like, what are you talking about?

34:39And it's like, can we not just be courageous enough to just investigate and to just get curious and to go, well, what would that free? And like, for me, and then I want to hear everything. It was like, I remember when they were like, okay, well, you don't have to work anymore. And I was like, but that does not compute. Like, do you know what I mean? Like does not make sense. And it's taken me a few years to thought of that. And in recent times I've really been able, and this feels like a growth edge for me, of being able to strip away my sense of like duty and I do this and I take care and I serve and I carry from like what's truly pleasurable.

35:12I think you're saying something very profound, which is sometimes in order to understand our own invisible scripts, we have to go somewhere else. And it could be physically, it could be spiritually. Sometimes that's why people go to church or temple or Goudoir and just go away from our normal routines in order to realize, oh, I'm still a good person if I'm not working all the time or whatever else. Yeah. For me, um, I think about invisible scripts that are gendered, that are cultural, uh, culturally it's, um, you need to like all education is good. You need to go to elite education. Okay. And that can be a good script.

35:53Invisible scripts can be good and bad. I, I took that one. It worked for me. I love education. I did it. You need to get a nice stable job. No, thank you. It wasn't for me. Yeah. I once got advice from somebody. If you work at Procter and Gamble for 30 years, you can retire with over a million dollars in your retirement account. I was like, that's it. That was literally, that was my first year. I was so young. What a cocky answer, but also kind of revealing. Yes, absolutely. If you're struggling to make progress on your dreams, this free tool is going to help. It's called the yearly goals map.

36:26And in just 10 minutes, you're going to get clear on your top priorities and let go of what's keeping you stuck. It's super quick. It's powerful and you can do it any time. Get it now at marieforleo.com slash yearly dash goals, or just scan the QR code on your screen right now. You know, when I grew up, um, we didn't use the word protein in my family. Like literally we didn't use that word. You know, you go out to restaurants, are like, what protein do you want? I'm like, huh? Um, we didn't talk about fitness. It wasn't part of our cultural upbringing. And that was really hard because it took me until my mid twenties to decide I want to change my fitness.

37:07And that actually was so, it was so hard because I had to unwind so many beliefs. I'm just a skinny Indian guy and on all these beliefs that are so deep. I'm not just the same as many people would say, I'm not good at math. That's why I have so much compassion because I did it myself. I think from a male perspective, I have the same invisible script that almost every man in America does, which is I'm the provider. Toxic. Toxic belief. Because first of all, nowadays there's a lot of women earning more than men. So I talk to men and women on my podcast and sometimes she's earning more than he is.

37:46And I ask him, I say, in this relationship, what is your role? He goes, I'm the provider. I go, well, obviously that's not true because she's making more than you. So if you're not the provider, who are you? And he looks stumped. This happens repeatedly. And I think that's a cultural failing where we tell men, your job is to work and provide, which is okay, but what else? What else do men do? This is why you typically see men in their forties, they start talking about things like a man cave. it's actually quite a signal to me and a dangerous one which is the more that men get older when i they they retreat they become insular they lose their friendships like you don't hear guys going on guys trips right it doesn't happen right right unless it's a bachelor party it doesn't happen right and sometimes when i ask them um what do you like to spend money on i'll ask the guy he goes well um whatever my wife likes and a happy wife happy life we've heard that i hate that phrase.

38:46I go, I didn't ask about your wife. I'll ask her in a second, but I'm asking you. And he goes, you know, whatever for the family, make sure that everybody's happy. I said, not the family, you. Many men have lost themselves by the time they're in their forties. And I could see it happening to myself too. I could see how difficult it is to maintain friendships, how difficult it is to make new friends, to even spend time together. And then I end up 10 years from now on a lazy boy recliner in a man cave. No way! So I'm fighting against that invisible script. And I urge every man to fight against that invisible script.

39:20You can provide, but you are more than just a provider. It's like expanding beyond. Yes. You know what I mean? It's blossoming outside of these kind of narrow lanes that we've been given. I'm curious. Okay. What's one money script or life script? And I know we just circled around one. Maybe that you had to break through, whether it was at the beginning of your journey, or I think more interestingly, like in the last one to three years. oh wow what a question i have a theme for my 40s oh it changed everything it changed everything let me tell you how it came about so um i was doing my netflix show and the show was coming out and i wanted to have a pr firm rep me and i didn't want the pr firms that i've worked with in the past i wanted a hollywood pr firm because i wanted to expand and there are certain things they know that others don't.

40:16So I made my list and I identified the best firms and I wrote them an email, each of them. And it was a good email. I have a show coming out on a major streaming network, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I just waited and I wait like one hour. Usually they're fast. I wait one day. I wait two, three days. Nobody, they won't contact me back. They basically don't take over the wall inquiries, even from somebody who was very credible. And I realized I was playing a different game. And I went to these agents who had tried to represent me. And I wasn't interested in having agents. Since I've been in my 20s, I've bootstrapped everything.

40:59I did it myself. I notoriously do not like middlemen. And so the agency had tried to rep me. I said, no, thanks. I went back to this agency humbled. And I said, look, I know that you don't rep me, but I need a favor. I've reached out to these five firms. None of them will reply. Can you help me get connected? And she writes back, she goes, give me 24 hours. 24 hours later, I get emails from pretty much all of them. The CEOs, hey, we'd love to hop on a call with you. And at that moment, I realized I am playing a different game. I'm not playing the same game, even at the level where I've had a New York Times bestseller.

41:39I've had all this business success, but I'm in a different level. And at that level, you need to humble yourself and you need to get help. So the theme of my 40s is to be collaborative. And that sounds kind of like, oh, just a word. No, actually I was not that collaborative for the last 20 years. I wrote my book. I built my business. It's bootstrapped. I own a hundred percent of it. Great. I did well. I'm happy. But in order to get to the next level, I need the help of people to learn things I don't know. And to even just get in the right doors. So, so I actually went back to that agency, signed with them because I was like, wow, I get, I get what you do.

42:21And I'm willing to give up a little piece of the pie in order to learn from you. That has been a huge restructuring of my brain in my forties. This is so wild. I can't wait to talk. We'll talk more, but like that has been a script that has been unwiring itself in me too. Cause again, we were coming up. It's like, yeah, I own a hundred percent of the business. I remember even like years ago, friends of me that are much older asking for business advice. And they're like, well, I could just give way. And I'm like, no. It's like a point of pride. Yes. But then it's like at a certain point, I love that.

42:55Thank you for sharing that because it's huge. And by the way, I have to say, because I know your email writing skills, you write some damn good emails. And I love that you're like, just crickets. I need some help. Let's talk now. We talked about Netflix. I want going to go here next. So when I was watching how to get rich, I was so happy. I know I texted you. I was just like sitting, I binged the whole thing. Thank you. Sitting, watching with my, um, my popcorn, which is like my favorite treat and just like, go for me. Like, and I have to say, because I know you so well, I was also really impressed with how, like, you're such a compassionate person And you're like, we're both very fiery.

43:38And I love that you are like a no bullshit person. I was like, dude, I was like, Rami pulled out some like skills that I don't even think I've ever seen you have with people because it's so vulnerable to be on camera. These folks are showing up and they're inviting you in to arguably the most intimate part of their life that's not sexual in nature and can be so embarrassing. did you do any work for yourself to like tamp down your like no like you know like the Ramit who's like a badass and who's like a truth teller yeah I did yeah tell me about that you you recognize it of course of course you you were so attuned to this so I knew um months before when it became clear this is going to happen then I really shifted into gear first of all during the negotiations um this was happening during COVID and they were taking they were like really stretching on for a long time, but I was like, take all the time you want because I need to fix my website and I'm going to get, I'm going to get an even better shape.

44:38So like no rush, no rush. So when it finally became clear, okay, this train is taken off. That's when I shifted into high gear. So there were, there are a few areas that I really wanted to dial in. And my philosophy was, um, I like to rest. I like to recuperate. I watch a lot of TV. I just sit there. I never feel guilty, but the way that I interpret that is I'm recuperating and preparing so that when the world calls me, I'm ready. And I wanted to be ready when it's recorded. That's it. That's it's there forever. So better look, sound, feel good. So one thing I did, my wife is a personal stylist.

45:19We went out and got, you know, she fully styled me. And part of it was quite complex because she, um, she had to do a lot of work. She had to identify what cities am I going to be in? Guess what? I'm going to dress differently in New York than an hour outside of Philadelphia. Yeah. I'm going to dress differently. Cause I run hot. Look at this body hair. You got to make up for it. Yeah. And, and then also I did not want to come across as some freaking, uh, ill fitting suit wearing financial advisor. That's not me. Totally. So there's that the, So she helped me with style. Fitness, I set a goal, worked with a trainer, got pretty dialed in for that.

45:57And then the big one that I wanted to work on as well was people skills. And so I've worked with a lot of people, but you have to know when to humble yourself and realize you're playing at a bigger level. We both know this. So I went to a media training firm. I've worked with them before like 10, 15 years prior. And I said, I have a show. These are the specific things I want to know. Can you give me somebody in TV? They found me a former TV producer. I went in, he had his laptop. He started giving me this presentation. And I said, Hey, I don't mean to interrupt, but I have 13 questions that I want answered.

46:39I've seen this. I know this stuff. I need this. You should have seen the look on his He closes his computer and he smiles because a teacher loves to see a student who comes ready to learn. And that it's not just about finding the best instructor, the best course. It's about you look in the mirror and ask, am I the best student? I came prepared. I was ready. So one question I had was what happens if somebody cries? Yes. What the hell am I supposed to do? I'm not. It's not intuitive for me. I know you're like this psycho. No, no, no. This is great. It's like, it's one thing if your friend cries, but it's another thing if somebody cries and there's three cameras recording in 4K.

47:16And what if I don't know them? And what if it's a woman and her husband is there? There's a lot of it. And there's a freaking dog. There's a, it's a lot of issues. I go, I'm not trying to figure this out on the fly. I want to prepare and train ahead of time. So there's some really interesting things I learned. And And I'll tell you, one of the tips I got was, Ramit, when you go to meet people in their home, when they open the door, they're wearing the best clothes they own. Their house is the cleanest it's ever been. And when you're walking through their home, just take a second and appreciate it, right?

47:50Ask them, oh, that's a really cool piece of art. Or, wow, that's like, how do you make your coffee? Now, we all know this. We know that when we go to somebody's house, maybe you take them a little gift or you ask them. We know that. But when you have a whole camera crew, audio gear, producers in the garage, you forget. You start to think, I'm just here to do my thing on camera. No. The thing that I took away that the older we get, the more I remember is just people connect with humans. They connect with people. So somebody who comes in, shakes the little kid's hand, walks around, wow, beautiful backyard and asks real questions.

48:28they're actually going to open up way more. You did it. So like I, that's why I was cheering. Cause again, your money advice, your strategies, all of that has always been next level. But when I saw, and it's not even performance is actually not even the right word, your being and your presence on the show. I was like, damn, like that. I wanted to throw my popcorn at, you know what I mean? It was all that. Okay. That means a lot for me. Well, it's the truth. Cause it was, it was, And again, you've always been amazing, but it was super, super next level. And I just, also the lesson you all, like Ramit's been doing what he's been doing for so long, so many courses, so many shows, so many YouTube videos, so many social media videos, and this notion of humbling ourselves and going like, ah, what don't I know?

49:13Where am I not practiced yet? Where, where do I need more skills and just for you to go for, okay. And this was my my question for you like did you pursue it was your was it your idea where you're like no they came to you okay so I'll tell you how Netflix came about it was COVID and um I got an email that's that said um subject line was something like interest in Netflix and it said hi you know I work at Netflix and uh do you have any representation and have you considered, you know, doing something, we'd love to talk. So first of all, this was like a true holy moment. Like I look at the screen and you, you can kind of like, the blood is only going to your eyes.

49:57Everything else goes dark. And then my next thing was, I was like, what's representation? Like, what does that even mean? I don't know this. Yeah. I'm, I'm like an internet guy. So I remember I took the email to my wife and my natural tendency is just in general to say no. Like in general, for certain things. I'm just like, nah. So I'm kind of like, oh, I forgot. I didn't believe the email. I was like, this is like some ambulance chaser producer in Hollywood. No, I looked at, I double clicked the from, and it was at netflix.com. That's when I was like, holy shit. Because the only Netflix emails I get are what's coming out new on Friday.

50:34Yes. So I took it to my wife and I was, I was kind of like, this is so crazy, but like, I probably wouldn't do that. That was my first instinct. My invisible script was almost, I'm an internet guy. I'm not a TV guy. So crazy to think about that. And her instinct was so different. She goes, oh, would you do it? I think you're ready. And looking back, what a moment where she saw more in me than even I saw in myself. And just that question is like, it unlock something in my brain. And I started thinking in my, and it just, the thoughts come fast. I go, wow, I've been doing this at the time I'd been doing my business for something like 18 years.

51:17Like I've said, I have my philosophies on money and they have been battle tested. Literally millions of people have looked at it, critiqued me, said all this crazy online, all these trolls. I go, come on, keep it coming. What do you got? Let's make my arguments better. And I, and then I know the internet I've done courses books what's next what's and how do I bring this rich life concept to more and more people and so that was how it began I got on a call with them and uh they were like they were very nice that everyone in Hollywood is so nice and of course they blow you up oh you're a visionary this and that and um they um I was like how'd you guys even hear about me.

52:00And they were like, oh, we have this person in the office and he's like giving your book to everyone. And the guy, I guess, was pretty senior. And I was like, let me stop you right there. Whatever the deal we were going to do is, the price just went up quadruple. And they laughed, but I was like, I'm not laughing. So anyway, that's how we started the deal process. And then it got to where it got to. You did such an incredible job. If you haven't seen it on Netflix, go watch it because it's fantastic. Let's talk more about the online business aspect, Cause we've both been doing this for a very long time.

52:31Like anything recent from you, how you actually run your business, like batching content, outsourcing team size. Like I know for me and in our, where my kind of soul is wanting to go is I like simplicity. I want things being really lean. Like I've done the version of, you know, 40 people and full-time and all that. And that was amazing and wonderful. And I'm just not interested anymore. So I'm just curious, anything that's working for you right now, like your stuff always is so high quality. Oh, well, it is. It's the truth. I'm not blown. I don't blow smoke up your ass. You know that. That's not how I roll.

53:10So anything that you want to share? Yeah, I think two two things are really interesting right now. The fastest growing part of our business is YouTube. And, you know, friends had told me, like, you got to get on YouTube. basically like I said my instinct is kind of to say no at first and I don't really like being first mover but I listen so they years ago they were like you got to get a podcast you got to get a podcast they told me this for years because we have similar friends yeah and I was like nah I don't have an idea and I waited patiently for about eight years and then launched the podcast and then when it launched I was like this is it like I know this is good and it was good and it took off.

53:51YouTube. Friends kept telling me YouTube, YouTube, and I just wasn't ready. And then finally I saw what was going on. I really sat down and looked at other folks. And I discovered stuff that I didn't know. People are watching it on their TVs at home. I'm like, what? I know. And then people are watching it on their phones. Again, I'm like an aging millennial. So I was like, huh? How do you do that? And they're swiping. I go, what the so i was behind the times yeah i um sat down and i decided okay this is this is the future this is where it's going how do i give myself an unfair advantage because i don't know youtube youtube i realize is its own world it has its own language and technology ecosystem constantly changing yes yes so um found uh a small team outsourced some of it some of it is in-house at this point we do two videos a week.

54:46Tuesday is the podcast, the video podcast. Thursday is the YouTube specific. Such an interesting thing. There's so many interesting things we learn from it. So our podcast tends to be 70 % women. The Thursday episodes are 70 % men. Wow. Yes. Shocking, which I kind of love. It's so different. My entire business used to be very male oriented. Yes. And I love that we have really tapped into money is not just for men or women. It's for everybody, but in different ways. Yeah. And, um, I love being able to blend those to be fluid, talk about these topics. So I think that's good. Um, areas that I have not mastered yet.

55:28TikTok, I'm like very much learning. I try it. Then I kind of like back off. I leave it for two months. Um, but it's, it's coming. Yeah, for sure. It's coming. I know that it's on my radar. I'm just, you, you, you know, when you start trying something new and you're just dabbling and it kind of goes one step forward, two steps back, that's me. But you also know when you're like, okay, I'm in, I'm going to learn Spanish, something clicks. And you're like, this is, I'm going all in. Totally. I'm not there yet, but I think you can feel it when you are. Yeah. A hundred percent. How are you? Um, like one of the things we're having a lot that I'm having a lot of fun with.

56:04And that just feels like, oh my gosh, we're at the precipice of a whole new world in terms of AI. I mean, sometimes I can go down such amazing AI rabbit holes on YouTube and I'm just like, holy Jesus. You know, like in terms of agents and all that build out has like on our team, it's interesting too, for me to witness like who is afraid of it versus like who's like super curious, you know, and just playing around with the different, cause there's obviously it's been embedded in so much of our technology for years now, but in terms of the speed of development of things like agents and the capabilities, it's just like, whoa, dude.

56:41It's astonishing. Yeah. A couple of things so that I'll share that have worked really well for us. I asked chat GPT to find every example of when somebody cried on my podcast, because I was curious. Yeah. It found them. I said, give me the timestamp and give me a one sentence description of what was happening and rank them in order of descending intensity. Oh my God, I love you for asking this question. I know. Of course, I'm like a psycho with my prompting, but it was shocking. And truthfully, it would have taken an editor like dozens of hours to find that. It found this in three minutes. So that was astonishing.

57:18And what that allows us to do is now when I'm making a point, I can quickly cut to two or three prior examples. There's nothing better than seeing it. So I'll go, So 50 % of people do not know their household income. Take a look. Boom, boom, boom. Found that in two minutes. That's one. We're starting to be able to create our own little private space and upload our stuff. So now if we're using an example, we know it's been vetted because I wrote it. Yes. That's really important. Reputation is everything. Yes. I don't want somebody going out there in some email and getting an email that says, you can make 40 % returns.

57:58It's ridiculous. I would never say that. So that's important. I want to share an example. One of my friends did this. He created his private GPT and he works with a mentor of mine, Jay Abraham, and he took all of Jay's work and uploaded it. And now he asks his Jay Abraham GPT, like he'll say, here's a transcript of my last sales call. Tell me the two things that went well, but tell me five things I can do to improve it. And in Jay's words, it will come out. So I can imagine them, you know, uploading or referencing a mentor of theirs, maybe Marie Forleo. And we've had our students say that, like I've been on like these school coaching calls.

58:36She's like, I, you know, I ask you sometimes in chat GPT. I'm like, yeah, it's like, exactly. I was like, dude, if I can provide, and I've also been playing with it so much that I'm having fun, wanting to create some things that where I'm getting such incredible responses that I want to build some custom, you know, do you know what I mean? GPTs that are like, if you were my one-on-one client, here are the kind of things I would want to know about you anyway. Wait, how do you, okay, so what's, what is the most deranged example of GPT that you use? I'll give you one while you're thinking of it. Oh, yeah.

59:06Cause you know, I got to get, so I get a lot of these trolls who write me and as you remember, I engage with every single one. I love it. Like I'll never, I'll never stop answering. So, you know, one of the things I say is, um, buying is not always the best decision. buying a house. Sometimes renting is better. This infuriates people because they think that they always accuse me of being a secret landlord. I'm like, you think that I'm going around to your house with a plunger so I can make$125 net per month. You really think Ramit Sethi wants to own two properties? No, I'm not a landlord. I own no property.

59:39So anyway, um, they, I go, you understand that, um, in every, in 100 % of the top 50 Metro cities in America, it is currently cheaper to rent than to own. Again, they think I'm lying. I'm like, look at a chart. They don't know how to look at a chart. So then I said, the only way to really drive this in again, why am I doing this? I have no idea. But I said, the only way to really drive it is to show them an exact address where if you look at the rental price and to own price, it is vastly different. For example, cities like Manhattan, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, it exhibits this. It will be like a multimillion dollar house and you can rent it for like 5k a month.

1:00:20So I had chat GPT. I said, find me these addresses within this area with this specific criteria. And it found it. I was like, I love you. This is your best friend. I know, it's my new best friend, totally. Now, if you're not as psycho as that, you're probably not gonna use it for that. But gosh, I'm seeing people use it for like relationship questions. Yes. Really powerful. How do I stay connected to my friends? Oh, I'm going out and I don't want to drink. What are some other things I can do with my friends on a weekend? So many cool examples. I was bored one night and like Joshie was away. He was working in some other city and I was about to go to my best friend Chris's house.

1:01:01And we had been like just fantasizing. This is what women do sometimes. Like, well, especially her and I were like, okay, we just want to hang out in your house out in Connecticut. And we want to like crack this vegan tomato bisque because my best friend is a vegan. I'm not a vegan. But when I'm with her, I'm like, dude, we're vegetables all the way around. And like, I'm talking to my chat GPT and I'm just having a ball. I'm in my house doing stupid shit, like listening to nineties playlists. Do you know what I mean? Like getting packing up my stuff. Cause I'm leaving the best day. And I was like, let me see if I can have chat GPT help me crack a recipe code.

1:01:33So I had taken a picture of this like farm stand tomato, vegan bisque that we had had at my place in Sag Harbor. I uploaded it. I said, can you help me reverse engineer this recipe so that when I go to Chris's tomorrow, not only was my chat asking me like, it was like, well, what are you doing right now? I'm like, okay, this is getting weird, but it was fun. It asked you that? Yes. Why is yours friendlier? I don't, mine is so friendly. That's what my friends have been asking me. They're like, how are you training your boss? Did you tell it like, you're nice. Cause I was like, don't talk to me unless I ask, like, don't even respond to me ever.

1:02:06Just get to the point. Oh, this explains so much. And so it was like, I was having a conversation. I was telling it about the playlist for me. I was like, what world am I in? And then when I asked it to help me reverse engineer a potential recipe, just based off of the ingredient list, it nailed it. When Chris and I made the recipe the next day, it wasn't perfect, but we got it. Like I would say like 90 % close to, and, and I went and re-uploaded the proof that we made it and it was, I was tripped out. So yeah, I haven't used it like from a troll business sense, but I've used it in personal ways.

1:02:46And just, and it's whole, the fact that it was making jokes, I think I was actually asking it something around, remember we were having this conversation just a few moments ago about like, I've just been kind of unwiring some of my invisible scripts around work. And it made some joke about me disappearing into the Italian countryside and told me, it was like, let's be real. That would be iconic. And I was like, my chat is funny as fuck. So anyway. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So, okay. So now you've gotten your little hit, everybody, of how Rami and I are playing differently with AI. Okay. Another question.

1:03:23What's one business or personal decision you made in the last year that dramatically leveled up your life and that you wish more people knew about it? I think I have finally embraced

1:03:38delegation. Really? Yes. Oh my God. I've always seen you as such an amazing delegator. So maybe you've hit a new level. I think so. Okay. Well, you know, I have, I'm in a CEO council with a few other CEOs and many of them run B2B businesses. They're not personalities, uh, et cetera. And the, the, it's funny, one of them said, um, I'm so jealous of a couple of you guys, including me, cause you guys really love your businesses. Like it's who you are, it's your baby. And then a lot of the, a lot of those folks were like, well, we're jealous of you. Cause you have just like a super calm systematized business.

1:04:14It's just business. Yes. And so the grass is always greener, but it got me thinking. And my business was, you know, it always goes in waves. I've had my business this year will be 21 years. And over time, it grows, shrinks, you reconfigure it, certain parts of the business grow and others die. That's normal. Yes. Everyone talks about delegate, etc. Delegate is not just give them a little bit of authority. when I say fully embrace it delegation means you own the P &L the profit and loss you make the calls um here's the numbers to hit we're going to agree on them jointly and here we're going to make a list of how I am allowed to be involved uh how I'm not like I'm not attending project management meetings and they don't want me there anyway yeah and um these are the only things you have to check with me before you do, but otherwise good luck.

1:05:17That really changed things. That really changed it. And it was uncomfortable. It took me a long time to get there because I think all of us CEOs, we, you know, especially if you're a founder CEO, you have intuition that others cannot have. Yes. You've done, you have certain, some ineffable thing that you can't put into an SOP. Also, you just know what's right. For folks like us, and we do have folks like us listening right now, when your name is the front of it and you are the front, there is a different level than when you're selling doorknobs. Like it is a hundred voice. I know this is one of the things I loved about this.

1:05:50And I was so excited because it's like, I heard your voice in every word choice. You know what I mean? And your humor. And it was just like, no. And I was like, yep, that's my roommate. Like it was just so good. And I think that it's so important. And that's such an amazing step. The other day I was proud of myself. It was a similar thing. You're way more systematic at it than I am. But, uh, one of my folks, they were like, okay, we've got like this, you know, essentially a 70 page Google doc of so many of the things I've written before, you know, for a, uh, kind of structured in a new flow. And it's like, do you want to review it?

1:06:24And like, I literally checked in, you know, it was like, no, like, do you know what I mean? I was like, that's a big deal. It's a huge deal. Cause five years ago it would have been like, yeah, Saturday night I'll be awake doing it. Correct. And I was like, you're super smart. I've literally rewritten these things a good jillion times. They're not just like some, you know, God bless chat and it's smart and it's amazing, but this is all my stuff. And then my director of ops, I'm like, I've got two smart people. You guys can check it. And it's actually better for them. Yeah. It's disempower. This is nothing new to anybody, but it's disempowering for smart people to constantly have their boss checking over everything.

1:07:04Check major strategic decisions. Yes. Checking over a freaking email copy online 16. No, there's a larger problem there, but it's almost always the founder's problem. I was just going to say, I was like, I've definitely been the biggest bottleneck. And I, and I also offered too, and I felt good about this because I know as a creator, I don't know if you have experienced this. Sometimes I do need a bounce off, meaning like I've created something new and I want someone to just like, is this nuts? Like did what I just write, is this crazy pants? Is this going to like, you know, piss off? If I showed it to you, be like, yes, Marie, piss off a bunch of people, but you know, in the right ways.

1:07:37So I offered to this particular team member, I'm like, look, if you need like legit bounce off, because this is a highly important decision and you just want to run it past somebody and you know, my instincts are good, bring it to me. But otherwise I was like, trust you, you're smart, go for it. So I love this. All right. I'm going to keep going because again, I could talk to you forever. Um, here are some questions that our audience of mostly ambitious, creative entrepreneurial humans are struggling with right now. How do I make consistent, reliable income when the online business world feels so unpredictable?

1:08:09So they're seeing declines in their launches. They're seeing so much economic shakiness, AI saturation, and wondering actually what works. Great question. okay so the the response that a lot of people want is um use this channel you should go on tiktok that's not the correct answer maybe it's tiktok maybe it's youtube there are people who make a lot more on tiktok than i make well especially because i make basically zero it's not about the channel it's about the way that you approach your business first off it is saying it's being really honest with yourself and saying, am I trying to fit this square peg in a round hole?

1:08:51Like, I came with this idea and this is the idea I need. Well, the market doesn't give a shit about your idea. Your job is to come with five, 10, 20 ideas and then listen to the market. That's first. You got to listen to them. And that the way we teach it, we talk to people on the phone, we do surveys, we email, we'll even offer free services to friends just as long as they agree you to give a testimonial, all that kind of stuff. Channel wise, you should look at what channels are growing. You know, I probably wouldn't start a blog today if I were doing it. But sometimes people like I had one student of mine who said, I don't want to do email.

1:09:30I strictly want to do Instagram. And she grew her Instagram like a lot and she did really well. Good for her. So having the ability to decide this is what I am. I'm really good on video or I prefer a podcast. Amazing. And then the final thing is you need to set some idea of an educated milestone. So for example, if I were to start a podcast, I might say within four months, I want to have this many downloads per episode. And I know that if I have that many downloads, I'll be able to roughly make this much money. If you don't know those answers, what those numbers should be, then you probably need to get educated about the podcast world.

1:10:12Now, if your number, let's just make an easy number. Let's say you wanted a thousand listeners per episode. And by the end of month two, you have five. Things are not going well. You need to radically change. You still have two months, but you need to radically change what you're doing. Do not wait till the end to fail. If you're going to fail, you better know it from a mile away. If on the other hand, you get to month two and you have 800, you're doing great. Keep going. Keep going. And you're going to hit your goal. And that means, wow, nice job. You can probably afford to keep going on. So I think we need to apply a little bit of rigor to our business ideas.

1:10:46We need to get educated. We need to talk to the market. If it's not working, we need to cut bait and move on to the next idea. There's nothing wrong with closing a bad idea because there's many more good ideas in your future? How do I, this is someone, how do I price my offers in a way that feels aligned and still sells in the market? So this is something I've seen, particularly women struggle with a lot, guilt, comparison, fear, especially because they see rising costs around them and price resistance. Who cares about other people's costs? I don't give a shit. Oh, tell it, speak it, talk to it, Rami.

1:11:19like people okay you you need to stop listening to people's pricing advice from the internet okay some some random person on instagram and they'll be like um it's so outrageous how much they're charging for their uh jacket i saw these influencers just trying to make like canvas bags and stuff oh my god that canvas bag is 90 that's outrageous um they it probably only cost them six. Do you all know that the point of business is profit maximization? The only thing that matters is can they sell it for$90? If they can sell it for$90, God bless. And in fact, you shouldn't be judging. You should be learning.

1:11:59What did they do that allowed them to sell for 90? Similarly, you can go to Home Depot. I wouldn't go there. I hate Home Depot, but any store with commodities in it. Go look at the salt in the grocery store. Why does one salt cost four times what the other does. Maybe it's a little harder to source, but what about the packaging? What we need to start understanding is if we're really honest with ourselves, whether it be the nail polish or the lotion that I use, there's cheaper lotion. So why did I buy that lotion? Yes. I bought it because maybe my mom used it when I was growing up, or maybe I've tried three and this one's the best.

1:12:34And do you think I'm sitting there looking at their freaking sourcing? oh, they actually use glycerin, therefore it must be cheaper. No, cost does not equate to price. They don't matter. The two are largely irrelevant from the consumer's perspective. So what matters is what value can you communicate? And that comes from, number one, choosing the right audience. If you choose the right audience, they have the ability and willingness to pay. That's important because if you're serving college students and you're trying to sell them luxury personal styling, they have no money, forget it. Second, is this a problem in their life?

1:13:07Do they have the willingness to pay? Is it important to them? Somebody comes to me, they go, Ramit, I'm gonna show you how to polish your wedding ring every day so it'll be shiny. I go, don't care. Not gonna pay$1, not gonna pay$1 ,000. My ring is my ring, it's good, I'm good. No matter how much you lower the price, it's not gonna make me want it. And then there's some of the ineffable elements, the elements like your brand, your website or Instagram. And this is where, by the way, you remember back in the day where everybody was copying Marie Forleo? Yes. Hey, I'm going to dance because Marie does it.

1:13:43And all those people vanished. Why did you guys do that? That was not a good strategy. What was going on was everybody just wanted to copy you because you were the most successful and you actually listened to 90s hip hop and dance. Right. That's you. Yes. It's not an act. It's actually you. finding that thing that is actually you takes a long time. I didn't used to talk like this. I had the ideas and I would talk a little bit, but finding who you is, is a lifetime journey. And that's good. That's how it should be. We don't need to copy somebody like you who is already successful in your own right.

1:14:20I wouldn't expect people to copy me. That makes no sense. But finding who you are and tapping into that, that allows you to raise your price because there's only one of you. Yes. I love that. So what do you think some smart money moves to make are right now? You know, obviously, um, we're recording this at the time of this recording. There are a lot of rollercoaster fluctuations. I remember I woke up the other day and it was really funny. I was like, what, you know, I got an email from where my money is one group. And then I got like a very similar email from another group. And I was like, Oh, just hit the fan.

1:14:54Yeah. Um, what are your thoughts for people that feel like I, you know, so much of what I'm into from a financial perspective, it's long-term, you know, I ain't touching it. And I'm like, why am I going to look like, you know, so I'm just not going to torture myself. I have better things to do with my time. Any thoughts that you want to say to the folks out there? Um, first off a lot of wisdom and what you said about not looking at your investments. Investments are for the long-term day-to-day moves are largely irrelevant. And, um, if anything, looking at them on a day-to-day basis is tempting you to do the wrong thing.

1:15:29So the wrong thing would be selling all your investments right now saying like, oh, it's going down. I'm panicking. That can cost you millions of dollars. Do not do that. I have a pretty aggressive recommendation to make right now, which is I'm recommending people build a 12 month emergency fund. Oh, I love this. Now that's a lot. That is a lot. And I want to explain why the only other time I've ever recommended a 12-month emergency fund was during COVID. So that should convey the seriousness of what I think is going on here. Most financial folks recommend three to six months. In my opinion, that's not enough.

1:16:06You have to understand that when really bad things happen in the market, then companies retrench. When companies retrench, they lay people off. They certainly have already stopped hiring. And if you get laid off, it's not just you. There's now millions of other people getting laid off. So those jobs vanish. And no matter what you were getting paid, the odds of getting paid the same amount go down. So you really need to build that emergency fund. And there's a few ways to do it. I'm not expecting anybody to do it overnight. But what I want is for you to protect yourself because when uncertainty rises, bad things happen to individuals.

1:16:45And you do not want to have your back against the wall and suddenly have to lose your house, lose your car. some people have to stop taking medications during recession. It's life or death. Some few things people can do. Number one, obviously look at your discretionary expenses right away and start to become aggressive about either trimming those down or eliminating them. If you use my conscious spending plan, just look at the fourth category and just chop it off. Put that money into savings. Some other things you can do, which are a little bit, you can extend your expenses. So let's say you're getting self-care done, some type of self-care every three months.

1:17:20Get your hair did. Yeah. Yes. Consider expanding it to four months. Yes. I hate to say this, but over the course of a year, that can be hundreds of dollars. Yeah. Put that money in savings. Then we get into some of the more complex things. If you are contributing, for example, to a low interest debt, for example, you're paying $200 extra per month on a 3 % mortgage. No way. Not anymore. That money's going into savings. There's no reason to pay low interest debt. You could even cut your contributions to a 401k down to the match and put that money in. The point is I want you to build a war chest because bad things are probably coming.

1:17:59Nobody can predict for sure. But the worst thing you want to do is to walk into financial chaos with no savings. It is too risky. I remember years ago, years and years ago, I was like writing in my journal about how my biggest financial goal at that time in my life was having six months of savings, you know, like a rainy day fund. And I remember talking with Josh about it and it felt like so absolutely out of reach, you know, and it was just like, gosh, if I could ever have six months. And I'll tell you, I'm a very financially conservative person. I know this about myself. I know I'm very risk averse.

1:18:35And I was like redoing my numbers the other day. And I'm like, I like having three years. And it might not be wise. I know there's a difference between math and emotion. But over time, I've also learned that my peace is so important to me and that I'm actually a better, I feel like I'm a better human and I'm also more effective creatively in terms of what I can generate in a joyful way if there is peace of mind. So I'm so happy that we're talking about this because I think all of us are so unique in that risk averseness and what our comfort level is, where we feel a sense of financial peace. And all of those adjustments, if anyone's like, well, wait, it's like, oh no, to build up that war chest, there's no better feeling in the world than to be able to go, you know what, if there's chaos around right now, and there is, and so much of that is largely out of our individual control in the moment, you have taken really smart steps to create a little buffer or a runway to be able to navigate.

1:19:33It's like when I go to the airport and I see people running to their flight and, you know, like move out of the way. And I'm just Zen. That's how I want to be Zen. And, and the reason for that is I can't control when the plane's going to go. I can't control if there's a longer line than I expected, but the only thing I can control is getting there early. And if I do that, probably all the rest is going to be okay. So I try to apply that same principle like you to my savings and I encourage everybody else. we don't like to think ahead. In general, in American culture, we live by the month. We don't really think about things like retirement, certainly like what is my rich life?

1:20:15How much do I need? What's a 4 % withdrawal? And you know what we hate more than that? We hate planning for something negative. So it's one thing to plan for retirement. It's another thing to plan like, oh, I got to get my molars removed 20 years from now. And you're telling me I got a plan for that? no thanks. I'll just not deal with it at all. That's how we think about an emergency fund. But trust me that when bad things happen, like when COVID happened, I felt so grateful that I had that money for my family and for me to be safe. I want the exact same for everybody. I love that. So if you could only teach someone one money principle to live by for the rest of their life, and don't feel like you have to stick with this one forever.

1:20:58This might just be what's coming up for you in this moment. What would that principle be and why? Again, it's not in stone. It's just this little moment. I like the fluidity you suggest. I think my favorite principle would be spend extravagantly on the things you love as long as you cut costs mercilessly on the things you don't. So I spend a lot of money on clothes. I love clothes. Travel. My wife and I love to travel. Even taking a guy's trip, you know, like I've been telling you how I'm fighting against the urge to be a male recluse. Yes. So I text my friends. I'm like, guys, I want to spend some quality time.

1:21:37I have an idea. Let's go to a ranch and let's go and like do what people do on a ranch. Let's go have some fun. And they were like, yes, let's do it. Boom. Use the money for things like that. On the other hand, there are things I just don't care that much about. Eating out at fancy restaurants. It's not really my thing. I've done it once in a while. I will do it, but it's not really my thing. And so having a big suburban house, it's not really my thing. Yeah. And I think it's important to know what your rich life is and what you want to spend more on and what you don't want to spend money on. And I love how everyone's is unique.

1:22:18Yours is different. Mine is different. Everyone's rich life is different. That's the point. Your rich life is yours. But I would love more people to have that vision of who they are and what they love and do not love. Anything you want to leave us with before we wrap today? Money is not a source of disagreement. It does not have to be a source of fighting and tit for tat. Money can be a source of connection, spontaneity, generosity. And that is why I wrote Money for Couples. That's why I love to see couples using money to live their rich life. Thank you so much. God, I had so many more questions, but this only requires another chat.

1:23:03Anytime, anytime. Thank you, roommate. You are fantastic. Hey, are you feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, or just drowning in busy work and still not making the money you deserve? In this brand new training, you're gonna learn three super common mistakes that can kill your productivity and tank your profits and how to stop them fast. Just go to marieforleo.com slash free class or scan the QR code on your screen right now.