Ade Adepitan MBE

0:04Hello and welcome back to The Midpoint. Today I'm chatting with Ade Adepita. Now you might know him as someone who seems all smiles when he's on the telly, but his early life definitely wasn't all smiles. Far from it. He contracted polio as a baby, which left him paralysed on his left side. And then when he was three, his family uprooted from Lagos, Nigeria and moved to London. And that's where he was first introduced to wheelchair basketball. He says sport became his freedom and he took it all the way to the very highest levels. He represented Team GB in the 2000 and 2004 Paralympic Games, where he won a bronze medal.

0:38And then Addy turned his talents to telly and presented a wide variety of programmes over the years, including the hard-hitting documentary he's recently been on, Whites Only, Addy's Extremist Adventure. I actually presented the Invictus Games with him a few years ago. And a few months ago, he took on a different role altogether as Chancellor of Birmingham City University. When you meet Addy, you realise there's actually nothing he probably can't do if he sets his mind to it. And in midlife, he's navigating parenthood. Adi and his wife, Linda, just welcomed their second child into the world. In fact, we were due to record the midpoint on the morning that Zayla, his new baby daughter, decided to make her entrance, which I think is the best excuse I've ever had for delaying the recording of the midpoint.

1:20I'm sure this chat with Adi is going to be worth the wait. Let's meet him.

1:29adia depotam welcome to the midpoint um i just said in your introduction that you had to delay the recording of this because of the best excuse of all time and i loved i got the message saying had he's really sorry but his baby's coming i was like wow that's an amazing excuse how is she yeah out of all the excuses I could have come out with I was thinking well Gabby will understand this one I think she'll get this one she's she's great it was just one of those mad ones where you're told with the um the second one is it that it comes late or anyway we we weren't expecting the baby to come early and it just happened so quickly it was very funny because I'd been in researching my chat with you.

2:17I knew Linda was having a second baby. You guys are having a second baby and I couldn't find this baby. And I was thinking, surely he's not arranged to do this close to the birth. I was thinking that to myself, I always kept this birth silent as you know, nobody knows about this baby. So there you are, father of two now. But you know, when you tip over 50, life changes, right? And you've got a baby keeping you up in the night. How are the energy levels? Yeah, this is, it's a really good question, actually. And I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment because, so we've got a four-year-old, which, you know, Ebola, and you kind of forget what it was like because there's a four-year gap and you forget the sleepless nights, the nappy changes, the feeds in the middle of the night, all of that sort of stuff.

3:02They're trying to burp the baby. And you just kind of think, oh, yeah, we'll be able to do it. We've done it before. It's great. And then when it happens again, you're like, oh, my days, this is this is just madness, this sleep deprivation. And then the fact that I'm still playing basketball for my club team. So I'm still training regularly. We have basketball games. The best times for me to get my basketball court, which I train on doing my personal sessions, is like seven o 'clock in the morning. so I have to be up at 6am after being up sort of three times a night. So yeah, I'm in that sort of, I'm sort of a little bit hysterical, wired, mad, that sort of type of place.

3:49Yeah, because you kind of left the whole settling down, having a baby a little bit later, didn't you? And a lot of people listening to this podcast will be thinking of things like empty nests. And we talk on this podcast about how you adapt to life without your kids when they've left home. Was that a conscious thing? Did you feel like there was a lot you wanted to do before you became a dad? Or was it just that never was the right person at the right time? Yeah, I think all of the above. It just made me think when you said that I'm probably going to be like 100 by the time the kids leave the house.

4:22It's going to be nuts. They're here forever. Get rid of them. um yeah I think look so I had the burning ambition of you know wanting to to compete at the Paralympics win medals be successful so the early part of my years was really dominated by sport I it's funny I was listening to one of your earlier podcasts with Dame Kelly Holmes who's a good friend of mine um and there was a lot of things that I connected with in in what she's saying and you said as well in terms of that real single-minded approach that you have when you're an athlete it's so hard to have the bandwidth especially when you're young to be able to combine relationships everyday life with trying to win and trying to be the best and at the time you don't realize but you're really selfish I and you kind of have to be to be that successful I mean, maybe if I was to do it again now as an older person, I kind of have the emotional skill to be able to deal with that.

5:30But back then, to have a relationship and to try and be a successful basketball player. And there was a kind of sort of fracture between myself and my family, my parents, and also trying to forge a career. It was just too much. But there was also the combination. I'm sure if I'd met the right person, if I'd met Linda at that time. And you also all have, you both have to be in the right place in your lives. You know, you could meet the right person at the wrong time. And a lot of things have to happen to make it work. And I guess a man has the luxury, don't they? You can find that person a bit later.

6:13I think women tend to get a little bit more, if they really want kids, they get a bit more panicked, don't they? Although there are other ways to have, you know, to have babies and it doesn't necessarily mean you, you know, you have to be in that traditional relationship. But I think it tends to be a bit more accelerated earlier on, doesn't it, for women? And I guess with athletes as well. I mean, there's more female athletes now coming back to competition after having babies. But back in the kind of early 2000s, when you were at the peak of your powers, you wouldn't have seen many women coming back, would you, from having babies?

6:42No, I think the only one I can remember was, what was the Irish middle distance runner? Sonia O'Sullivan. I was going to say Sonia O'Sullivan. I'm sure she had a baby and then she came back and she was actually even better. Some of the longer distance went like, because obviously Paula did as well, didn't she? But there tends to be kind of, you think about traditional Olympic sports away from athletics and swimming and, you know, gymnastics. You never really see women having babies and coming back in those sports. No, it's rare. But yeah, and I do feel, I don't know what the right word is. As a man, you feel a little bit like, oh, God, we're quite privileged in the fact that you can wait a little bit longer.

7:26You know, and I have friends, female friends who are athletes, but also who have, they really value their careers. And they have that ticking clock as well. And you kind of feel for them, you know, and there's so much pressure from society. I felt pressure, but in a different way. As a man, you know, potentially you can have children later in life. But I did also feel pressure that I needed to be in a relationship. I felt lonely. There was definitely a lot of, you know, I felt like that. When did that start to kick in? When did you start to feel lonely? Because I guess when you're so busy with, as you described it, all your training and your goal setting, you haven't got room to almost think about the fact that you might be on your own.

8:08When did it kind of kick in that you thought, hang on, it's just me? I had a couple of crap relationships where I was told I was a little bit of a selfish kid and that I'm going to end up older. I got told some home truths and I kind of like thought, oh, yeah, kind of. Yeah, maybe this needs to be more to my life than just basketball and traveling around the world and doing my own thing. and you get to sort of like your early to mid 30s. And I don't know what it is. I don't know whether you felt this, but you kind of think, right, something real, something has to happen now. I have to start becoming properly responsible, you know, have a house and have something set up for my future.

8:55I can't continue doing what I'm doing forever. You know, I'm getting older. I could get an injury. I could get cut from the team. I need some more longevity I need stability you in your early years you crave not instability but you crave spontaneity you you love to be able to just that that you have that power of like I can do anything whenever I want I can get on a plane fly here I can do this job I can do that but then as life moves on you start to worry about that um spontaneity and and and you start to crave a little bit more familiarity and and that you know that maybe that sort of nesting type of thing and I was like god am I going to be lonely am I going to be this old lonely dude who's only got basketball and and and his work for his life and and I was doing so many really amazing and exciting things and I just thought I'd love to share that with someone I want to find someone that I can do these things together with you know I was getting on holiday amazing holidays on my own you know I went to the Caribbean on my own it was great for a while but he's like yes yeah it'd be nice if I did this with someone else as well so I started to have that longing I think when you start to feel like that that's when that person probably makes themselves known to you if you're kind of you know without sounding too woo-woo I feel like if you're if you're running through with a different kind of energy in life the person that you need to be with probably wouldn't come anywhere near you because they they don't want to have to fight all that kind of spontaneity do they so they don't want to change you either i think that's really important isn't it in relationship yeah yeah but you know the other thing that um really worried me and i started to think about it as more as like i definitely want to have children um but i also you know with all the research all the knowledge you have you kind of realize and you start hearing that older parents one there's that generation gap and i had that generation gap with my parents and that was a real struggle yeah my parents were in their 40s when i was growing up and then they were in their like 50s when i was a teenager and you have that real clash trying to understand each other i didn't want to be that parent trying to deal with that different generation but then you also hear as you get older as a father, your sperm might not be as good.

11:23You know, there's more issues that could potentially happen when you're having children. And I think when you have a disability, I sometimes feel really weird saying this, but my biggest fear is to have a child or was to have a child with a disability because I knew how hard it was for me. Right. And I was just like, I don't want my children i know like the world has changed so much and people are more open-minded and there are things in society that make society a little bit more um easier to navigate if you have a disability but i just know how it still is really really difficult and i just was like i don't want my children to go through what i want through you know and sometimes people celebrate my resilience and say, you know, you've done so well and it's made you the person that's made you.

12:17But I'm like, I spent, I wasted a lot of time overcoming obstacles. You know, I think that whole idea that we have in society of like how brilliant someone is for coming from nowhere and dealing with all of these challenges that society throws in front of you. And we sort of praise them and all of that. And that's great. But to me, I look at it also as that was wasted time. I could have been that time that I was fighting, I could have been using that time to becoming better as an athlete. Do you think though that the fighting that you did and others of your generation maybe have made it easier for kids born now with disability to access those things?

13:00So actually you have done such incredible work for the next generation. absolutely i i do i think you know tanny gray thompson myself david weir ellie simmons you know all of these paralympians that have become successful and also people outside of paralympic sport with disabilities who've who've done amazing things that i've met along the way have opened doors and made things easier but still we can't kid ourselves life if you have a disability is still challenging. I know I follow Tani on social media and she regularly doesn't, she posts about getting to a train station and not being able to get off the train or because they haven't got a ramp or somebody can't get her on the train, you know, and she gets stuck in places and it's, it's disgusting really, isn't it?

13:51Yeah. You know, I kind of think that I don't want to go into that whole, I always end up feeling like I'm, I've become the whinging disabled guy when I start saying things like this. But, you know, sometimes you hear, I remember when it was a couple of months ago, it was mid last year when we had all the tube strikes. And whenever we have like a strike with some sort of public transport or something going on in our social system and everyone starts complaining. And I'm kind of thinking, you know what, if you're a disabled person, it's like the world is on strike for you every day. the reality is every day it feels like the world is on strike for you and what you just kind of do is you push it to one side and you just you just deal with it it's just like one of those things you know just like women have um certain challenges that they have to deal with in this patriarchal society that you just accept you you don't want it to be that way and you want to fight for change but you know at the moment this is where it's at and it might take a while to change that and that's how I see it with disability and that's why I really like I just I didn't want my child I want my children to have the best chance in life.

15:20So you've got two children. You've got a gorgeous wife who you met kind of by accident as the best kind of romance star. You were at an event and she was there and you just connected. There was this moment. She's quite a bit younger than you, isn't she? And you were kind of nervous at first about the age gap. But does that show itself at all in terms of anything in energy or your likes and dislikes? she's far more mature than i like so much more sensible and i am way more intelligent than i am all of that stuff what i really enjoyed i i feel like i do have a young energy anyway and i like the fact that she was i always said she had she had this incredible aura and you sometimes feel with people when you meet them you know you just it's not to get woo woo like you said before but there is this unwritten thing that you can just feel in the air and you and you just think yeah this person is good for me this person works you know we work together we're where our chemicals are bonding in the right way um and we complement each other and and help each other but you know it was a journey it wasn't always you know you've got the initial beige attraction your gaga and the attraction and all of that physical emotional and stuff like that that honeymoon period and then there's a period where you you have to work and when once you get through that then it becomes absolutely amazing and and to to found her was was incredible for me but you're right when i found out how old she was because we i didn't know how old she was she was when we um when we met at the national television awards and i realized she was quite a bit younger than me i was like oh my days this is um whoa this is quite scary but actually as we we didn't really become a proper couple for probably a year and a half we just spoke we just chatting got to know her yeah really got to know each other.

17:27I was, I'd left wheelchair basketball at that time and I'd started playing wheelchair tennis and I was on the wheelchair tennis tour. So I was traveling around the world and it was, um, what was the, the, the way we all connected before, uh, Zoom? What's the old one that we used to use? It's not, not like a FaceTime call. Skype, Skype. Oh, wow. Gosh, that's a real blast from the past. Yeah. And it made a funny little noise when it was dialing up, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, wherever I was in the world, you know, we Skype each other for hours, just beyond Skype, just chatting. And it was great.

18:05We just learned about each other. And just it was it was a nice, slow, easy progression. And I kind of just started to think, you know, a lot of the worries that I was having and we're having was to do with the sort of things that pressures that society puts on you. You know, like society kind of says you should be, like, obviously it has to be legal, but like society says, oh, if someone's more than five or six years age gap, then everyone starts talking about it. And maybe it was less difficult for me as a man, because if it was the other way around, if it was a woman dating a guy who was far younger, there would be even more stigma.

18:49um I I I totally acknowledge that but I kind of thought well it was all about us connecting and and I realized straight away that you know we had something special and I wanted to be uh with Linda for the rest of my life so I was like well we met when she was like 19 um just turning 20 and I was like I'm gonna wait till she's 25 because I'm if we're still together when she's 25 then I'll pop the question and I also realized that you change a lot in your 20s you know who you are at 19 20 it could be completely different to who you are at 25 and I'm like she might hate me when she's 25 we might just like not get on and stuff so let's let's see but then things got accelerated because Linda's dad had cancer and we knew he didn't have long and I really wanted him to know that you know I was going to marry her and that she was going to be safe with me and I think one of the things that I'm still really proud of is when I called Sid up and phoned him and said I'd like to ask for your daughter's hand in marriage I asked you for your daughter's hand in marriage and you know he was just so emotional and just just so so happy and and I think that was another thing that played a massive part is how accepting her family were of me yeah because i think like what you've just alluded to there about the challenges of a child with disabilities also somebody whose daughter is marrying a man who has disabilities like what how does you know how will that affect her life how will she you know how will she what she have to kind of do to look after him or how will you know how will that complicate their relationship you would have those concerns, wouldn't you, if you were a parent of a non-disabled person?

20:38And that's not prejudice. I think it's just like you alluded to earlier, it's wanting your kids to kind of have a kind of straightforward experience. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. We had a really amazing experience, actually, when I met Linda's parents. I was really worried. Her parents were coming down um to go to a wedding in um kent and uh she told them that they could sort of stay at my place and then i'd give them a lift and take them to kent so i was meeting them for the first time um it was only about a year and a half into our or two years into our relationship and i remember picking them up and we went to to the wedding and then there was sort of like I think there was about six or seven hours between their flight and we had to kill time.

21:30I lived not far from the airport, so they stayed at mine. And I was thinking, what do I do to entertain them? And I had an Xbox and I had SingStar and Lips. And Linda's a singer. And I was like, oh, yeah, let's put on some cheesy 80s, like do a karaoke sort of thing. and she was so, she covered her face. She was like, this is the most cringy thing I had. And like within the first day of meeting her parents, we're singing Culture Club, Come a Chameleon, with Linda just hiding in the corner and straight. And we're really bonded. It was such a mad, funny experience. That is a really good tip, I think, for anybody introducing the parents.

22:18I've never heard of that before. We'll put a bit of karaoke on, see how that kind of levels everything out for everybody. But do you know what was really, what sort of made me just think, oh, this is going to be amazing. And I'm really going to get on with her parents as well, was just how sweet her parents were after that. Because, you know, they then invited me up to Edinburgh to stay. And when they did, Linda said to me, because their house wasn't that accessible. And he said, Dad has spent all week and he's been sweating building this ramp. He's been building this ramp in the shed. He wants to send some pictures to see whether it's right.

22:54And he was so desperate to make sure that everything was perfect for when I came. That must have felt really lovely for you. That must be really heartwarming when somebody thinks like that. oh he was like he was apparently he was like looking in um around to buy the right one trying to do tweaks and all of that and constantly and he was so nervous that it wasn't right and i remember when i got there and i pushed up it and it was a little bit wobbly but i i sort of didn't want to say that and i went up it like it was like it was fine like it was perfect i just saw in his eyes how pleased and how happy he was and he was that and he breathed this sigh of relief that I was able to get up on the ramp.

23:39And I was like, yeah, this is really nice. You know, they're so accepted. You have alluded already to challenges you had with your father and the relationship there. And there was a long time where you were not speaking to each other. How, because there'll be people listening to this who might be experiencing the same thing within their own families, or it might be a really close friend they've become estranged from. And they want to repair or move on. How did you deal with that coming together again? It was really difficult. It was really difficult. Were you 17 when the relationship broke down?

24:17Yeah, well, it was on its way to breaking down probably before that. So from the moment I discovered wheelchair basketball, you know, what's quite complex, my parents, I was born in Nigeria. my parents brought me over from Nigeria when I was three years old because I contracted polio but I think the roots of our difficulty came about from the fact that my parents desperately wanted me to have a better life and they knew that having a disability and growing up in Lagos Nigeria in the 70s was going to be almost impossible but I've also got an older sister who has Down syndrome. And my parents had certainly had two children in the early 70s in Lagos, Nigeria with disabilities with special needs.

25:07And they wanted to do their best to help us. And the initial choice was get us out of Nigeria, but they couldn't afford to get us both over to the UK. And they had this agonizing decision of choosing between the two of us. And they chose me initially with the idea of bringing my sister over once they had enough money and they managed to get a house that was okay for all of us. And mainly they chose me because my needs were physical and my mum said because she saw me crawling around the ground in Nigeria, she just felt that I wasn't going to survive because of my physical disability. But it was really horrible.

25:50And when we came to the UK, this burden hung over our family. the fact that I was the chosen one. So as the chosen one, I couldn't fail. I wasn't allowed to fail. I had this weight from the age of four, five years old, knowing that I had to succeed because sacrifices had been made in order to make my life better. Was that made overtly clear to you? Or was it just there kind of as an idea that you all knew it? Or would your father say to you, you're not doing enough or you're not achieving enough? Do you know what? I don't want to do my parents a disservice because they're amazing, amazing people.

26:34But yeah, they did. They did tell me. I mean, mainly out of desperation when they thought I was straying in the wrong direction. They thought this would be a way of kickstarting and getting me back on track. But it kind of really, it stung me. As hard as a teenager to deal with. Yeah, it stung me. It stung me. and it made me and then when I discovered wheelchair basketball so the next complication was I used to walk on calipers and my parents that they took pride in the fact that even though I had a disability that I was trying walking on calipers showed that I was trying it's you know they were hugely religious you know both Christians and work ethic was something that was drummed into them and someone trying to walk however difficult it was and it was really difficult I would come home from school um after days at school yeah it was like a mile walk to school playing sports walking around up and down the stairs for classes and I would come home exhausted physically exhausted the calipel would like sometimes break and cut into my leg and I'd have all these wounds and my back would be in agony but that sort of hard work and toil was what they felt gave me respect and when I discovered wheelchair basketball when I started to want to use a wheelchair it kind of broke their heart because they thought I was giving up I was giving up on trying to be a normal everyday human being who was who would walk around and I don't hate them for that I just know that's the way they were brought up you know and there was a massive stigma in society of people who used wheelchairs back then you know in Africa but also in the UK you know if you're in a wheelchair people saw you as uh less intelligent as more of a burden you know there was stuff that they felt you couldn't do in the 80s and and and and it was an overt sign that you were different whereas kind of if I'm trying to walk I'm I'm I'm almost like a non-disabled person um so all of these things these really complex issues will come into a head and for me when I discovered wheelchair basketball it set me free it suddenly given me something that I was good at I mean I was always good at sport even able-bodied sport because I was great hand eye coordination good communicator you know physically strong all of that stuff so sport came quite naturally to me but then when I found a sport that I could play on a level playing field with people it just took my life to another to another level but then my parents I remember when I got my first wheelchair Frank Bruno helped raise money for me to get my first wheelchair and children in need put some money towards it as well.

29:34And I remember bringing it home and my dad seeing it and being absolutely disgusted with it. And he threw it out the house. And my neighbours, who I was good friends with, we lived in this council house and all our houses were really quite close together and the fences in our back gardens were quite low. You could literally step over it. And my neighbour, I gave him my wheelchair. He was a little bit younger than me. and he lifted it over the back of our garden fence and I hid it under some tarpaulin and kept it as a secret and I would sneak off and play basketball and I sort of gradually sort of started to realize that the only way that I was going to make it as a wheelchair basketball player and achieve what I wanted to achieve my dream of being a Paralympian was to make a separation from my parents and i did this was sort of like i realized this at about 13 14 i didn't know how i was going to do this but i was like i'm going to have to find a way and when it really came to a head i funnily enough i it was something completely different from wheelchair basketball it was power lifting i at the time when you're sort of in your early teens in paralympic sport back in the days they encouraged you to try every sport rather than specialize and so i did a bit swimming in a bit of athletics wheelchair basketball was my favorite thing but I had a natural ability for power lifting I was really strong I was pretty skinny and my power to weight ratio was great and I broke the British junior record when I was 15 and became British record holder and they selected me for the British team to go to the world junior championships in Miami and my dad said I couldn't go.

31:19He said I had to focus on my mock exams and prepare for my GCSEs. And at that point, I was like, this is it. We've got to find a way out. And a friend of mine told me, he said, you know what, what you could do is you could write a letter to your council, to your local council, forge your dad's signature, write a letter from your father saying that you can't no longer live together and he said because you're disabled you'll be able to get I know it's kind of wrong but he said because you're disabled you'll be able to get a flat they'll put you up on the list and so I did it and it took about six no about nine months and so when I just turned 17 I got offered a flat um some people would help me get into wheelchair basketball they'd given me 10 driving lessons and I managed to get a car from mobility.

32:10And one day I just left and moved into this flat and was on my own, lived on income support, 38 quid a week. Did it feel like an immediate release? Did you feel it was the right decision straight away? Yeah, I kind of did, but I also felt a real heavy heart. I felt a heavy heart because I knew it was going to break my mum's heart I knew my dad even though he was really proud and wouldn't say so I knew he would be really distraught and I knew my my brothers and sisters they needed my support as well you know I've always felt like along with my father my parents I felt like a leader in the family you know I from the age of like seven or eight I I had a key to the house and I would come home and I'd bring my brothers and sisters home and cook and stuff like that so I always felt a responsibility for my family and when I did this I felt I was letting them down a bit but it steeled me and made me more determined and I was like I have to succeed and I was like I need to succeed and there's a time period that I need to get successful in so I can help them you know I said me being successful the way I sort of justified it in my head is if I become successful if I'm able to make some money, get a career, I can then go back and help my parents and help my brothers and sisters.

33:35And all of this pain and all of this heartache we can put to one side because I've been able to find a way to help them. So yeah, that was kind of my justification, but it was tough. I didn't know how to live on my own. I didn't know how to cook. I didn't know how to manage my money. Do you know the most foolish thing I did, Cami? I still remember this. 1992 Barcelona Olympics. I was so desperate to see Linford Christie win the 100 metres. And I didn't have a TV. I couldn't afford a TV. Not on 38 quid a week. So I went to Grundig, I think it was called, and rented a TV. You failed to rent TVs, didn't you?

34:20I rented the biggest TV I could get. 30 quid a week it cost me to rent. So I had eight quid left to survive on just so I could watch Linford Christie win the 100 metres. And I remember one time, like I watched 100 metres. He won it. I was like, yes, amazing. And then the power went out because I had the electric metre key to put power in and all the power went out. And I had to sit in darkness in the evening until I could get money off of a friend to like put back. Well, we've got a similar Linford Christy, well, not similar, but I have a Linford Christy 92 story because I was at the Olympics, not competing.

35:02That was the Olympics I'd hoped I would compete at, but I just kind of finished. My back was buggered and my sister's boyfriend was the British gymnastics captain. So we went and stayed in the flat of a woman I'd met on my gap year. I was teaching at a school in Ballum, teaching gymnastics. A woman there had a friend in Barcelona. She said, she'll put you up. You can stay on her floor because we had no money. And we were staying at this woman's flat. we had some tickets for the women's basketball, which Terry, the gymnastics captain, had got us from, you know, the Olympians get tickets and Paralympians get tickets.

35:32They trade them. And I found this American guy outside of the Monjuic Stadium with some tickets for that night's session. And he didn't want to go. And I said, I've got basketball tickets. And he thought I had the men's dream team, you know, the dream team of 92. So I said, I've got, and we swapped. And before he could tell that he got women's tickets, I literally legged it into the stadium because I was now going to watch Linford Christie win 100 metres. So to this day, I feel ever so slightly guilty that that guy thought he was getting like the hot ticket of the whole Olympics, which was the dream team basketball.

36:04But, you know, he wins and he loses some, right? The women's team were good. They played some good basketball. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, you know, I'm absolutely for promoting women's sport, but I definitely know that's not what he thought he was getting. So I think listening to your incredible story story of how you got yourself into a position where you could do these things you wanted to do. I think it's probably easier for people now to understand how you continue to push boundaries because of what you went through then means that when you get on a plane and fly across the world and make a documentary about extreme racism, which would for a lot of people feel really foreboding and difficult and challenging for you, those things now must seem like opportunities and ways of telling more stories.

36:50Yeah, you're right. I think my perception of what's difficult and what's not is probably slightly different to everybody else's because my boundaries have been pushed from a young age quite far. And it is, I look at these, I love challenges. I kind of feel like I've become addicted in some way to challenging myself. And I think it's really important that you do that because when it's a challenge that is of your choice so you know I talked a little bit about the challenges that we face as when we have a disability those are not challenges that are our choice and and so those are the kind of challenges that I have an issue with but when it's a challenge a place that you put yourself in you know from for instance yourself with your gymnastics career and even your tv career pushing yourself sometimes to do things that you where you surprise yourself you get a real rush and a buzz and a feeling of empowerment out of that and once you once you've had it once you're you're addicted you keep wanting to do it and you keep thinking where can I go to next and you learn a lot about yourself you find out who the real you is in those moments because great thing about sport and the great thing about challenging yourself is you are naked emotionally You can't hide.

38:14You know, you have to really surrender yourself to the challenge if you want to really succeed in it. You know, you have to be open to the fact that this might not work out or you might be you have to be open to to really having your weaknesses exposed. But all of those things you find actually make you stronger. But it's really scary. It's really scary at first. And I think a lot of people who don't live our lives, who don't naturally get those opportunities to challenge themselves, may not understand it. But actually, it's probably something that we've always done as a human race. And you can still, even if you're not doing things like you are, which are very extreme in terms of how you push yourself, you can still do things every day that make you feel a bit uncomfortable.

39:02The thought of them make you feel uncomfortable. And I was listening to something the other day that was talking about a certain part of the brain. I can't remember the name of it now, but it's not a part of the brain I'd heard about. That every time you do something that you don't really want to do, that part of the brain develops. And they looked at people kind of who died and given their brains up for, you know, research. And basically, or they could scan them. Older people who'd lived these really full lives, this part of their brain was really developed because they had done lots of things they didn't want to do.

39:32And it's that kind of old adage, isn't it? about sitting on the comfy seat and how it's actually, it genuinely does change your pathways in your brain when you're challenging yourself, which to your point means that you keep wanting to do it then, don't you? Because your brain is actually changing through that process. That's really fascinating because I didn't know about that, actually, Gabby. I mean, I kind of think, you know, when I pass away, they'll probably donate my brain to science fiction rather than science because of the kind of madness that I think and the way my brain goes. But it is true.

40:06And you make a really good point about every, not everyday people, but just everyone finding their little challenges. And they don't have to be spectacular. You don't have to be climbing up a volcano or winning an Olympic or Paralympic medal for it to be a worthy challenge. You know, and I talk a lot. I talk a lot about it on my social media platforms. I think what I look at called a winner day. where I feel like it's important that all of us find something small that we can succeed at every day and I feel that's how I actually got to where I got to you know was finding small wins every day and what I was really lucky with is I found a vehicle that gave me an abundance of winter days and that's sport you know i i was able to do some sport can it gives you an ability to quantify your challenges every day you know i can go on a basketball court shoot uh 100 shots or 400 shots make 300 shots today and then tomorrow do the exactly the same thing and make 301 shots and i know i've succeeded and sport and i found that early for a lot of people it takes them a long time for them to find that vehicle that can give them a win a day and I really say to people search for that it's there it's in all of us we just don't understand how to use it or where it's at and that win a day could be something really simple like you know I'm going to try and get a bit more sleep this week you know I'm going to try and eat a little bit healthier this week one of the things I really tried to do you know towards the latter stages of my my mum's life was you know i tried to make sure i spoke to my mum more often spent more time with my mum you know that was my winner day you fight there are simple simple winner days picking that phone up and making that phone call yeah that person that you keep saying i must call that person even that is so satisfying afterwards isn't it when you put the phone down you think well that wasn't hard yes why did i put that off I hope you're enjoying this episode of The Midpoint if you are it would be amazing if you could give us a review and subscribe it really helps I'll be back in a moment

42:31You said there about making up time with your mum how did you rekindle a relationship eventually with your parents? It was sport sport always brings us together doesn't it? so so like um during my time away I I signed the professional contracts to play basketball in Spain moved to Spain for a couple of years and then when I came back from Spain I came back because I wanted to get into the national team and our national team coach said he wasn't going to select any players who were based abroad so I came back to the UK and um with the purpose of getting in the team after sort of like 10 years of really trying to get into the team and being cut so many times I finally get selected for the Sydney Paralympics team in 2000 and at that point I was sort of starting to make inroads talking to my parents a little bit again and my mum bought me a mobile phone because I went home to see them because my brother said look they've just moved to this place you should really come over and when my mum saw me she gave me a hug she bought me a mobile phone because she was like desperate to make sure that I stayed so that you could call her yeah yeah and so I got this mobile phone and then I said to him look yeah I know we've just started seeing each other again but I'm going to be going away for a while and I didn't tell them that I was going away for the Paralympics and preparing because I just thought they wouldn't be interested and I went away for the Sydney Paralympics and opening ceremony I'm pushing out with Team GB around the Sydney Olympic Stadium.

44:08I remember I had a good friend of mine, Steve Kane, by my side. And suddenly my phone starts ringing. I was like, what's the phone ring? I look at the phone and it says, Mum. And I'm like, do I answer this? And I was like, all right, I'll just answer it. I'm actually going around the Olympic Stadium. Maybe I'll answer it. So I answer it and my mum's like, you're in Australia? And I'm like, what are you doing in Australia? And I'm like, I'm here for the Paralympics. She's like, I know I can't see you on the TV. And I'm like, yeah, I'm competing in the Paralympics. She's like, yeah, I'm competing in the Paralympics.

44:43Ah! And she was just, like, totally blown away. And this was the first time. Yeah, and the BBC, for the first time, showed a bit more Paralympic sport. And I remember Claire Borden interviewing me and my parents seeing me on TV playing the sport. And I think they got it for the first time. it really clicked and when I came home suddenly I became a little bit more of a known name in the UK and got taxi home went to see my parents I was absolutely shattered and my dad came out the house tears running down his eyes and he gave me this big massive hug because we'd lost the bronze medal match and I was totally broken hearted um that we we had we hadn't won a medal and my dad gave me this big hug and he brought me in and one of my um dad's friends was in the house who was a really strict guy and they always used to give it give it to me over the years that the fact that I was wasting my life playing wheelchair basketball and that I didn't go to university to study and then suddenly they brought out this new newspaper and it was a new recorder and it had me and the new recorder and it says new star goes to paralympics and my dad stayed set and looks at him his friend proudly and he goes I always knew he would be successful I told you I always knew

46:05that is such a good story it's just so brilliant and 10 years of all heartbreak just suddenly went out the window from that one line and it was almost like we just reset the clock and started again wow wow so really i guess the lesson from your kind of engagement re-engagement with them is time time just to kind of everybody to recalibrate and obviously you had the you had the rather powerful tool of a Paralympic experience for them to tap into. But it is about time and maturity, I'm sure, because you look back and you've always kind of known, I suppose, that the 17 year old you had to do it, but begrudgingly did it.

46:46And now that you have kids, can you kind of imagine that scenario happening in your life? Do you know what, Gabby? I am absolutely petrified at what my children can be like, because if they're anything like I am, I was sorry when I was growing up i'm in for a real hard time it's gonna be like my son is already i mean bonner is oh my god he is super creative really stubborn very intelligent and he has got like he i can see he's got that passion and if he locks onto something and has an idea he wants to to be something or somewhere then he's going to go for it and i'm really happy to support him and support zayla in that as well um but i know it's going to be a roller coaster ride because as much as i talk about this and make it sound like it was this fairy tale story and i was this wondrous guy who was trying to achieve his dreams and go to paralympics i was a pain in the butt I was properly I was hard I was a hard person I reckon you know deep down you know I'm good kind you know wanted to to do the right thing but I was also really cocky I was really just but that's a defense mechanism isn't it yeah yeah I was I was very defensive and I was brought up in the East End of London, where I was the only disabled kid in my school.

48:22I was one of maybe four or five non-white kids in my school. So you had to have, you had to have something about you to survive in those times. Now, I saw a lot of violence. Yeah, there was a lot of really dark times. And in order to survive, there was this defense mechanism, there was this hardness, and it took a long time for me to soften as a person because of all of that so I know in all that and then my children's lives are going to be completely different because I grew up as a working class kid they're middle class you know there's no doubt about it you know I listen to the way my son talks I'm like oh my god come on babe but it is what it is but there are going to definitely he's going to challenge us.

49:12They are both going to be really challenged. You will rise to the challenge, but I don't think you'd want it any other way, Adi. I think you want to be challenged and by the sounds of it, the energy that he's got is definitely going to keep you on your toes and definitely going to keep you young in spirit for a lot longer than most of us whose kids are at kind of the other end of the spectrum. So I think you've done it the right way around for you and that's the most important thing, isn't it? I think you've got to the place that you needed to be. yeah I think people got to remember there's not a one-size-fits-all you know all of us are different and you've got to find what works for you find your tribe find your passion you know find find your winner day you know you're not you're never going to get there all at once you know trying to I I knew I was not going to become well I learned that I wasn't going to become a Paralympic champion overnight or Paralympic medalist overnight it was going to take small things that were going to build my self-esteem, build my resilience each and every day.

50:13Find that. And, you know, yeah, life becomes a lot more easier and you feel a lot more fulfilled. Thank you so much. That's such a wise way for us to end our lovely chat. And I feel we've only, I can't believe an hour has thrown by because we've just scratched the surface of so many things I wanted to talk to you about, but you've been so giving as always. So I really appreciate that adding and anybody who wants to know a bit more about win a day should just go to your social media i think thank you gabby thank you and i i love that story that linford christie story man i'm gonna keep that that is hilarious yeah i was i was very fortunate to see that and i was surrounded by americans by the way who did not think linford was going to win so that was even more satisfying in that stadium that night um i will see you soon no doubt take care and good luck with your beautiful babies and and the sleep and the challenges thank you so much gabby take care

51:11what a guy adi is i always love chatting to him and i'm so glad we've got him on the midpoint today i wish him every success in his tenure as chancellor of birmingham city university and more importantly as a new dad of two because that is fairly exhausting share Ade's episode far and wide with all your family and friends whatever path in life they tread I'm sure they're going to find his approach to life truly inspiring and as usual I'll be back next Wednesday with more musings on the midpoint until then take care