To the Point: Parenting "Am I getting it wrong?"

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0:37Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. Hello and welcome to Life at the Midpoint with me, Gabby Logan.

1:13This is our bonus episode to the point. This is the episode where we try to take a topic or a subject matter which is vexing you, bothering you, something that you've sent in a dilemma about or maybe a problem that you hope we're going to be able to solve for you. Something that I might have learned from one of the many guests I've had over the last six years and this week we're talking parenting. Now first thing to say is parenting I think is a continuum when it comes to learning and a journey that never really ends. You think you've cracked it at various points but you never have. You can talk to your mates, you try and go back on your own experience of being a child and having parents or somebody who is your carer and looks after you and maybe wanted to do the exact same thing or maybe the complete opposite.

1:59Either way, I think we never really feel we are always getting it right. And there are certain points I've certainly experienced as a parent where I look back and think, oh, I wish I'd done that a little bit differently. It might have had a better outcome for my kids and we're quite hard on ourselves. But it affects all of us, doesn't it? Whether we have£2.50 in the bank or maybe£75 billion. That's relevant because I'm going to play you a clip in now from the episode that we did with Melinda French Gates. And we talked about parenting as somebody who obviously has the resources of the world at their fingertips and probably could solve lots of problems by just dipping into the bank account.

2:35But you can't, can you? It's about time and it's about effort and it's about communication. Money doesn't solve those problems. So have a little listen to Melinda Gates when I asked her how she navigated parenting as a billionaire. You mentioned your children growing up, how you would try to not let them run away with the wealth that your family had in terms of thinking they could have whatever they wanted. Parenting is tough, right? Wherever you are on the socioeconomic scale, how did you keep them motivated and have their own dreams and passions and desires? Because so much of that that comes from kids getting on is about their own journey because they want to do either better than their parents or they want something that their parents couldn't afford for them or they want a better life.

3:25They were never going to have a better life than the one that you gave them. So how did you stop them being spoiled brats? Look, I did not get everything right. And I think, you know, parenting is a journey. I learned a lot along the way. But I did believe that kids do best when they have values, when they have values and morals. And I talked with them about that a lot, about how they treated other kids. I talked to them a lot about my expectations that if another child in school was being bullied, their job was to step up, to stand up for that kid and to find others. And if not, find an adult, right?

4:09So I'm just using one example. I talked to them a lot about values. They had an allowance. So they didn't just get to buy the new pair of jeans or the new sneakers that were the hottest and greatest thing that some sports person had just put out. They had to wait. They had an allowance. They could earn money. And they also had the ability to put it on their Christmas list. Maybe their grandparents might give it to them or an aunt or an uncle, or maybe I would, or, you know, my former husband would. So I wanted them to learn the value of money. And then most importantly, as you said, I believed self-esteem was built by learning what you're good at.

4:52And as I said to them when they were young, you know, whatever you choose to be, you choose to be a poet, you choose to be a doctor, you choose to do some other career. I want you to find that over time inside yourself because you will feel better about yourself having worked, having worked towards something. And so we tried to imbue that as parents by also both working hard, even though there was great means, right? We weren't just resting on our laurels in either case. I think it was a really interesting answer Melinda gave us there. And she has lived the life she talks because obviously her philanthropy, the foundation, the work she's doing, she's certainly not somebody who just sits back and enjoys her cash.

5:35She wants to give out to the rest of the world. And that's hard work, traveling the world, looking at all these projects and areas that she feels she can make a difference. So she leads by example for her kids, clearly. And when you look at what her children are doing now, you know, one of them is training to be a doctor, one is in academia. They clearly have followed their passions and they've gone into areas that involve a lot of hard work. So she is definitely, I think, cracking it as a billionaire parent in terms of having kids who pursued their passions. I'm not quite sure that when you know your parents have got billions in the bank that you realise, actually, I know they can come in and support me if something terrible happens.

6:17And that must be a lovely feeling of security for any child. But if she did make them put their Christmas lists to their grandparents and to her and her ex-husband and actually have to wait for things, I think that was really important because that deferred gratification in anything, working hard and knowing there's a goal and working towards something counts just as much with those material things as it does with those life lessons. So I was massively impressed by Melinda generally. But on that, I think she she's obviously done a very good job, although she says, you know, everybody makes mistakes.

6:50So I asked you on Instagram for your parenting mottos that you live by and had some fantastic responses. Joe said you learn more from what you get wrong than what you get right. And I think that is so true. And I think you also, if you have a partner you live with or a husband or wife that you live with, with your children, I think having those discussions and acknowledging that you might not have got something right is really, really important. Kenny and I always tried to do those conversations away from the kids, especially when they were little, because it would undermine the other parent. I think if you had those conversations in front of the child, well, I wouldn't have done that.

7:25Well, I and then the kids don't trust you at all. But I think being honest and thinking I shouldn't have brought that up at that point. maybe there was time to wait before I said this and gave that feedback. Usually it was to do with things like feedback and when it was to do with their sport or school or something that they had maybe got wrong and trying to let them come to a conclusion about it before you jump straight in with the answer. But I definitely have learned a lot from the times that I've got things wrong in parenting. Kate says, be interested and interesting. So be inquiring and show an interest in others.

7:59I think that's her motto to her kids. And it's a brilliant one, I think. If you go into a room and you can find something interesting about somebody in the room, you will be more interesting because you're asking questions. And I think that kids who show inquisitiveness, I think they just have a happier time anyway. They just have a better time because they're learning and they're able to get something from people. And I think when you have a generation that have been brought up on devices and phones and screens, whether you're policing that at home, they've got it at school, they've got it in their kind of social lives.

8:32It's so easy to just go in within yourself and actually to look outside and to ask questions is something that I think is invaluable for kids. So Kate, I'm with you on that one. Sarah says, follow through on consequences for kids' actions. This is where we are totally aligned, Sarah, because there's no good, you know, it's no good saying to your child, this will happen if you, you know, if you continue to do that and then you don't do it because they actually really need those boundaries and those kind of knowing where the line is in the sand, I think is so important to kids and having that kind of, if they want to step over the boundary, then fine, but you are going to lose your phone or you are going to have some kind of grounding or whatever you decide your punishment is.

9:15I think not following through with consequences can lead to actually kind of really wobbly sense of what's right and wrong and how do I fit into this now? Because everything I do, do I get away with? And it's hard. And it leads on to actually this one from an anonymous saying, stop treating your kids as your mate. They will thank you for being their best friend. And I remember Kenny will always say when he was about, well, Ruben was about 11 and starting to push the boundaries. And Kenny found that quite challenging and said, I just want to be his friend. And I said, you will be his friend if you continue to put the boundaries in.

9:51If you just let him get away with stuff, then the respect that you want between each other is going to be much harder to create. And he will say now that he's glad that he went through those kind of tough years because they have such a great relationship now. It's deferred gratification again, isn't it? It's that feeling that this is going to be a bit tough for a while here, but actually further down the line, we're going to have a much better relationship. And all I can say is observing that with Reuben. Poor Reuben gets it in the neck a bit here because Lois wasn't quite a boundary pusher in that same sense.

10:21And she would say that and he would definitely say that he was the boundary pusher and the one that was testing us, I think, a little bit more in that respect. And now I think the trust and the openness and the honesty that we both have with him, but particularly Kenny, because there is something of that challenge for, I think, a guy with that kind of alphaness in a relationship with a son, especially when your son is six foot six at the age of 14, and the physicality that they have. I think that does create a whole different sense of the kind of power struggle and shift in the relationship. So I definitely agree with that.

10:57That is a hard one, but I think it's an important one. And Jen says, life begins at the edge of your comfort zone. I say this on repeat to my kids. And there's lots of different ways of saying this, isn't there? I think it's that whole thing of staying in the comfy chair or pushing yourself beyond what you think you're capable of. And all those things build that resilience that we talk about constantly when it comes to mental health and children and how do you build resilience it feels like such an an intangible thing and people can't quite quantify what that means and I think it is going through those tough things whether it's doing a cross-country race you don't want to do or spending an extra half an hour on your homework because you did it a little bit sloppily at the start or maybe joining a club at school that you don't really know anybody in you might make some new friends you might do something that you find a little bit uncomfortable you find a little bit challenging, but at the end of it, you'll feel massively rewarded.

11:51I think making your children stick to those things or encouraging them to stick to those things is really, really important because actually, you know, going to that club, you've said you're signing up for 12 weeks. We're going to, we're going to stick to this for 12 weeks. And, you know, it's easy to just go, well, actually it means I don't have to drop them off and I don't have to pick them up, but actually I think it's really important for them to keep going on those things. And, and I definitely am all for that. Ruben would have called it harsh parenting at the time, but I think now looks back and realises what those episodes and what those kind of experiences did in terms of character and helping you know that you can actually push through something.

12:30And we've had a couple of very good ones from Claudia. You're only ever as happy as your unhappiest child, which is absolutely the case. Honestly, I've kind of said this to myself so many times. You think you've got everything's okay, the balance is right, oh, then something happens and one of them has had a disappointment or something's not quite right or they're feeling a little bit isolated at school or they might feel disappointed because they haven't got into a team and, you know, it can kind of feel like a catastrophe for them at the time and that obviously, you know, you can't help but feel emotionally connected with their disappointments and, you know, I think you learn to just get a bit more balance in the situation and not take on board all their disappointments quite so personally, but it is so true.

13:14And her other one is boredom is good. And I'm, I'm all for that. It breeds imagination, she says. And I always remember what Catelyn Moran said about why this country produces so many amazing artists and musicians and, you know, for a small island. And she puts it down to childhoods where it was raining, you couldn't go outside and you were just very bored. And you had to just imagine a story or do something creative. Like, you know, for us, when we were kids, it was always that kind of, you know, five of us together coming up with some imaginary kind of world that we were living in, or believe it or not, we had an old television in our kind of Wendy shed, we used to call it, the shed in the garden, and it didn't work, this TV, but we used to pretend that we were all members of the children's TV show Tiz was, and this was our Why Don't You gang, and we used to create this TV show, bizarrely, because I ended up doing that, But it was all about imagination.

14:07Three hours spent outside doing completely crazy things. And that's what kids should be doing. And that's what often I feel so sad for kids who spend so much time on devices that they're not doing. So boredom is good because you have to go and create and you have to go and create your own fun. So I am so with you on that, Claudia. And I love it when I hear a child say they're bored. I'm such a parenting masochist.

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15:10Right, we have a couple of dilemmas. Let's crack on with these. This is from Rachel. Hi, Gabby. My children are now 16 and 19, and I've recently started to wonder whether I've got the balance of parenting completely wrong. When they were younger, I worked long hours, was often rushing between work commitments, school activities and everything else that comes with family life. I told myself I was doing it for them, but now I worry about the things I missed. I see other parents who seem to have endless patience, who are incredibly involved in their children's lives and who appear to have got everything right.

15:38Really? You see these people? I often think that I should have spent more time playing with them, listening to them and worrying less about the house being tidy or getting dinner on the table. My children seem happy and we have good relationships, but I can't shake the feeling that I could have done better. Is parental guilt something we ever get over. And if you were in this position, how would you try and make up for the things we didn't get right and the things we feel we got wrong? First of all, I obviously have that little aside to you because other people's lives can often feel or look like they're really perfect.

16:11And so often that's not what's going on behind the scenes. We know that it's the kind of whole Instagram paradox, isn't it? So I think you did the best that you could do at the time. And By your own account here, you were rushing back to school activities, between work, working long hours, and you were doing the very best you could for your family. You got to the school activities and it seems that you regret not spending more time playing with them. And that's something that is so hard because you can't go back on your hands and knees and do building blocks right now. But you can still play with them.

16:45You can still do stuff that they want to do and meet them on their level and find out the kind of things that, you know, they still want to do with you. Now that is not going to be hanging out with their mates in the park at the weekend. That's not what they want you to do, but there will be things that they're up for doing with you. And it might be going to see a movie. It might be just partaking in something physical with them. They might be into going for a park run and walking home afterwards where you have conversations that you don't have during the week. I saw this brilliant meme the other day, which said, when my mum behaves well, I let her into my private life.

17:21And I thought that was so funny because I can really resonate with that, that you can hear those conversations coming sometimes and think, I've done something right today because I'm hearing a lot more than normal. And not so much now because they're 21, but definitely through those kind of 14, 15 years where it feels much harder to get the information. So I think you've done a really amazing job. But I do agree with you. I'm the same about keeping the house tidy because I kind of look back and think, oh, did we spend too much tidying up? did we spend did I spend too much time worrying about all the shoes at the back door my friend said to me once that actually um she'd heard that when you come home and there aren't shoes at the back door it kind of hits you in the solar plexus because that's when you realize they've all moved out they've flown the nest and they've gone I'm going to get a bit teary thinking about that sometimes I put imaginary shoes no I don't um but I think that feeling of like oh actually the reason the shoes are here is because they're all here they're all at home and they want to be at home.

18:17So the one thing I think I wish I'd done a bit less was try and keep the house tidy and worry about, you know, the dishwasher not being emptied. But, you know, you can't have too many regrets because actually you were doing the best that you thought you could do at the time. And actually, I think you can make up for it in certain ways because you'll have learned now the things that maybe when you have grandchildren, that you'll just be on your hands and knees playing with them all the time. And that's what people say about having grandchildren, I think. And we are in this age group where that might be coming down the track for some people listening that actually you get to do all the amazing stuff and you don't have to worry about the mess and you don't have to worry about them being handed back with dirt all over their clothes because you've just had a great time with them.

18:58So thank you for that and thank you for getting me a bit teary. This one is from Mark. My wife and I have two children in their 20s who've both left home but I feel we're having very different experiences of this stage of parenting. I'm happy to let them get on with their lives, make their own mistakes and learn to stand on their own two feet. My wife, on the other hand, is constantly checking in, worrying about them and jumping in whenever they have a problem. Recently, our son got himself into a bit of financial trouble. My wife immediately offered to bail him out. I felt we should let him take responsibility for his decisions.

19:28But this caused a huge argument between us. She thinks I'm being cold and unsupportive. I think we're in danger of making life too easy for them. I love our children as much as she does, but I sometimes feel we're not allowing them to become independent adults. How do you find the balance between supporting your children and letting them make their own mistakes? And is it ever possible to stop worrying about your children? There's a lot there. I don't think it's ever possible to stop worrying about your children. There you go. That's that one. Worrying though takes different forms, doesn't it?

19:57Caring, being there, listening, not always jumping in with the answer. Lois said to me the other day something, she'd rung me about something that was bothering her. And it was to do with someone she lives with in a house at university. And I came in playing devil's advocate. I put my feet in the shoes of the person she was kind of having a bit of a moan about. And she said, why have you got to do that? I don't need you to do that. Why don't you just listen to me and say, I'm right. And it's okay. And I thought, yeah, that's, that's where parenting shifts, doesn't it? We don't always have to come up with the solution to the problem, I could have just gone, yeah, that is annoying.

20:37And I think sometimes I need to do that a bit more and just allow them to vent on a problem and let them work it out. And I wasn't trying to work it out, but I was trying to let her see the other side, which, you know, maybe she didn't need to right then. She just wanted a bit of a moan. But I think it's different when it comes to financial things, because I feel like our generation feels that we were very, very fortunate to grow up in a period of time in history where we got cheap to almost free mortgages. We were back in the day being given our deposit as well as the mortgage. We have a completely different experience of money, a completely different experience of society and what's going on in the world.

21:15So I think that that is a massive factor in our feeling of slight guilt, actually, that our kids are not growing up in that world. And we realise that we might have to help them get on the property ladder. We might have to help them get the deposit for their first flat that they're renting. So I think those things are more practical than actually wanting to bail them out. But I totally understand what you're saying about your kids learning. I think they do need to learn through their experiences. And when the kids got their first cars and they might have had a bump, we wanted to jump in and sort it out.

21:47Well, at the moment, Ruben's driving around with a bump on his car that he's had for about three months now, and I'm not jumping in. It's going to have to sort it out. It's going to have to find the garage and he's going to have to sort out how to pay for it through his insurance, because at some point they've got to do those practical things and pick up the phone and ring an insurance company or go online and sort it out. So as annoying as it is, and I'm finding it very hard not to get involved, I'm trying really hard just to release some of those things and slowly kind of drip feed real life into their kind of world.

22:19And they have to kind of deal with those problems and issues. But it is tough and it is challenging when you know you can jump in and sort something out and save them a lot of anxiety and effort. But what's the fun in that? So yeah, you're not going to stop worrying about your kids. That's the end of that. And I hope you and your wife don't have any more big arguments about it, because I think you both want the same thing, which is for your children to be happy. And that is really the root of it all, isn't it? So good Good luck, Mark. Thank you for your question. And thank you everyone for sending in your thoughts and your ideas and especially those kind of parenting mantras.

22:55They were brilliant. And we'd love to hear from you if you've got anything else to say about this period of the midlife. If you want to do another episode on parenting in a different area, please get in touch with us. Hello at midpointlife.com or you can find us on social media. Please do go there at Midpoint Life. I really do love hearing from you, but that's what we've time for this week. So I'll see you again next time on Life at the Midpoint. Have a great week.

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