To the Point: Divorce & Relationships

0:01Gabby's with you in just a moment, but first, here's one for you if you've ever tried to have a proper chat with your teenager. On The Teen Commandments, Sarah Cox and Claire Hamilton have been trying to have some big, important conversations with their sons, but the right time just never seems to come. Sound familiar? Plus, listeners are sharing how it really felt dropping off their kids at uni, and it's an absolute rollercoaster of emotions. search for the Teen Commandments and get it lined up to play next

0:35hello I'm Giovanna Fletcher and I'm Marco Borcella and this is Boots Off we are friends who have spent a decade together walking up mountains across deserts and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans and something happens when you're out there feet on the ground surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you. This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure, the adventures that lead to adversity, and how life can be one big adventure in itself. Listen every Thursday, just search for Boots Off.

1:11Hello and welcome to Life at the Midpoint with me, Gabby Logan. Now this is our weekly bonus episode, To The Point, where I answer some of the dilemmas and questions and topics that you want to discuss and take some of the wisdom that I have managed to glean from six years of doing the midpoint and some of the experts and experiences of guests who've come on and maybe some of my own experience as well. And we've had quite a few dilemmas about divorce. So I thought we'd get stuck into those today because when a marriage ends, the relationship doesn't always have to end. And sometimes it shouldn't end, especially if children are involved.

1:46And it's about navigating those tricky waters. And we've had two quite different issues or problems come up. So let's get on with it. And this one is from Claire. Hi, Gabby. Me and my ex-husband separated when our daughter was seven. During the breakup, he behaved appallingly. He repeatedly took our house off the market, emailed my solicitor to say he didn't think our daughter was his, so shouldn't be obliged to pay child support, sent abusive emails to my family and told my daughter I was evil. In the intervening seven years, he's calmed down considerably. He sees our daughter every other weekend, but we still don't speak.

2:19He doesn't come to the door to pick her up and we communicate only through email. The problem is my daughter started to ask why we can't be amicable like other separated parents that she knows. Honestly, it's because it was a deeply horrible marriage and the thought of having a conversation with him still makes me feel sick. But I've also been really careful not to throw him under the bus and tell her just how awful he was during the marriage and especially during the divorce. So do I suck it up and let him back into my life, be more candid with her now that she's 14 maybe, or make up another reason?

2:53Well, I think the first thing I'd say, Claire, is don't lie. Don't make up another reason because then you're going to kind of weave all sorts of problems for yourself, your daughter, and ultimately him. And you'll lose your power as well if you make something up that's not true. But I've had quite a few situations I've observed like this with friends where perhaps the person they were divorcing could have been kinder and more reasonable at certain stages. And obviously there was a reason why you split up in the first place and why they split up. And the thing that I've always admired from a friend's point of view is where they have not thrown that person under the bus to the child, because I don't think that's a healthy thing to do, to tell the child at a young age what an awful person that parent was or how badly they were treated.

3:38Because at that young age, they don't need that extra emotional and psychological responsibility. They want to be a child and they want to live their life as happily as they can. So on the one hand, it might make you feel better if you said, look, this person was really terrible to me and that's why I don't speak to him. But actually, that's not going to serve your daughter at 14 any good, I don't think. But equally, she's asked the question, hasn't she? Why can't you be more amicable? And I think you are within your rights to say, well, our relationship broke down and I'm still quite hurt by it.

4:08And I don't feel I'm ready to have that kind of relationship with your dad yet. And maybe when she's older and you can have a more honest conversation with her, she might appreciate just how bad things were. But it's great at 14, actually, that she clearly isn't aware of how horrible he was because she probably wouldn't ask that question. And the fact that, you know, he doesn't even come up to the door to drop her off. You can't have a conversation there shows that he maybe hasn't reached any kind of maturity or any sense of wanting forgiveness, really for how he treated you. So I don't think you should suck it up.

4:41I think maybe you have to put up for a while with the idea that your daughter doesn't know the full story. And friends of mine where that's happened, actually, their children now are of an age where they can see for themselves and they can make those judgments themselves without their mother having to tell them. And I think they've come to their own conclusions. So I think if your daughter is as wise as you sound, then she will come to the conclusion eventually that perhaps you were doing it not just to protect yourself, but also to protect her. But yeah, I don't think there's an easy way around this, is there?

5:13Because I'm sure inside you're desperate to just say, gosh, these are the terrible things. These are the catalogue of terrible things that your dad did. But that actually wouldn't do you any good, I think, because she could rebel against that anyway. And she could decide that for some reason she didn't want to talk to you about those things and that she felt that you should have behaved differently. So I think you just have to be as reasonable as you possibly can, which at times isn't easy. And hopefully you've got people who can be your counsel when you're feeling a bit fed up about all that.

5:42But good luck. And at 14, it's only a few more years before she has true independence and she can evaluate and make those decisions herself. And then we had another one from Anonymous. I like this one. Dear Gabby, I'm approaching 50 and I've been married to my second husband for 10 years. He's simply my favourite person and I adore him. The problem I have is many of my friends seem to hate their husbands. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. When we get together, they talk about their bad behaviour, their selfishness, and many of them seem desperately lonely. With my first marriage, I could play that game.

6:17He was an angry, petulant man, but now I find it frustrating because this is the person you spend the majority of your time with. Why are you staying if that person makes you feel like shit. But just saying, oh God, he sounds terrible. You should divorce him as soon as possible is not the answer people want. You're absolutely right. She says, I love how you and Kenny talk about each other. And I get the sense you really like each other. And I love that. How do you cope when people you know seem to loathe their spouses? I laughed when he said hate because hate is such a strong word, isn't it? And I actually think a lot of people when they're kind of bad mouthing their partners, they don't hate them.

6:49Maybe there's just some kind of mild irritations that they just want to get off their chest. And for the most part, I would say most of my friends, when they're having a moan about things that their partner's doing, it's all gentle kind of joshing and they're, you know, just doing it for laughs and saying, oh gosh, when he's done this and he's done that. And that's very different to somebody who is in a relationship where they are experiencing kind of abuse verbally or even physically or coercive behavior or something where you think they're in danger and they actually should get out of the relationship.

7:20You know, there's real extremes here, isn't there? From somebody who, like you, seems to be in a blissfully wonderful relationship and then finds it annoying where people are critical about their partners. And then obviously somebody who, and I've seen it with, you know, friends over the years where they should really get out because it's not good for them and it's not good for their children to be in that relationship. And in that case, absolutely, I think you would be not being your true friend if you didn't tell that person you were there for them and supported them and tried to help them out of a situation like that.

7:51But I do think that it's kind of our way sometimes of relieving pressure, isn't it? And just making sure that we're tolerating things that are okay by discussing things with our friends like that. If you had a friend who, for example, was saying, oh, I'm really annoyed because he comes home every night at one o 'clock in the morning drunk, I think alarm bells would start ringing, right? You start thinking, okay, that's not right. That's not healthy for him. It's not healthy for the relationship. Where is he till one o 'clock in the morning? If it was like once every few weeks, oh, he came home late and he was a bit drunk and couldn't get his key in the door and he woke the house up and that was like once in a blue moon, then that's not the end of the world, is it?

8:30I think there's a whole kind of host of reasons why people irritate other people. And some of them seem to be really benign and seem to be completely, you know, you're annoyed about that. You know, whereas other people, it feels like they put up and they tolerate with, you know, quite a lot in a relationship. So good for you that you are in such a great relationship. And I think if somebody is badmouthing their partner and they don't seem to be doing that much wrong, I think it says a lot about them in a way, doesn't it? because I wouldn't want my friends thinking, well, why are you putting up with this guy if he's so terrible?

9:03It doesn't say a lot about how you value yourself. So maybe if a friend seemed to be putting up with a lot and was getting quite annoyed about it, then maybe you should just say, look, you know, you don't seem that happy. And you've got to be careful because obviously sometimes people don't really want the truth in those situations. So you kind of have to evaluate how much they want to hear the truth. But I hope that you stay as happy and as thrilled with your relationship as it is right now. And maybe just saying to one of those friends who loathes their husband, you know, is he really that bad?

9:38Make them think about how they talk about them because it's not very nice. You wouldn't like the idea of your partner going around talking badly about you the whole time. But thank you for that because I think it's a really good question actually. And I've had friends over the years where there's been serious issues and we've helped them. And then those who just moan about the fact that their husbands fart a lot, which, you know, is obviously annoying, but one of those things, right? Of course, none of us ladies ever do that. I think also sometimes we need to look at ourselves in relationships and we're, you know, we're very, it's very easy to kind of look at the other person all the time and think that what they're doing isn't matching up to what you expect and how you want the relationship to be and to look at it through their eyes.

10:23And maybe there are things where you could just back off slightly and allow that person a bit more space at times. And I think sometimes those little things that start to irritate actually reflect more on things that maybe you're feeling are going on in your life. I've noticed that. And those kinds of conversations actually are quite easy to start and you can resolve things quite quickly, especially if they're tiny little things. So maybe that's the advice that you give your friends as well. Just bring those things up with their partner, things that they're really annoyed by and see whether or not, first of all, they're aware of them and whether or not it's something they even want to change or they're willing to change because that might tell you a lot about the state of the relationship if they turn around and say, well, actually, I like coming in at one o 'clock in the morning every night and that's me and I am going to play golf all weekend and not see the kids.

11:10That's me. Oh, and I don't feel like I should have to come to parents evening. well then you know what their priorities are thank you so much for your questions our email is hello at midpointlife.com and of course you can find us on social media at midpoint life I do love hearing from you so please get those dilemmas and questions in and I should just say as well we have a really amazing relationship episode coming up in the new year in time for valentine's day so watch out for that one that's all from me we'll see you next time at life at the midpoint

12:10Thank you. by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at Marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app. Help I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson. I'm Jordan North. And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life. William's the arbiter of etiquette. And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.