Alison Lomax

0:04Hello and welcome to The Midpoint with me, Gabby Logan. My guest today is someone truly at the forefront of it all, Alison Lomax, the Managing Director of YouTube UK and Ireland. Alison has been a key figure in driving YouTube's success, leading everything from strategic initiatives to building partnerships that have transformed the way people experience content. Alison has spent her career at the intersection of technology and creativity, both in the public sector, where she worked for government departments, including MI5, and the Foreign Office in advertising agencies and then joining Google in 2011, where she led various commercial and creative teams.

0:41But it's not just about the work, which I am keen to dive into. I think like a lot of midlife people, we kind of grown up in the last 15, 20 years with things like YouTube, but I don't actually really know how it works. I'm keen to hear about Alison's personal journey too, though, and the realities of balancing family life with a very busy, successful career. So here she is.

1:06Alison, welcome to The Midpoint. Thank you. It's fantastic to be here. Well, I'm very excited to have you here because we are here to celebrate the fact that as CEO of YouTube, you're celebrating your 20th birthday and we'll discuss all that. And we'll discuss a little bit about how it's impacted all of our lives, especially people who listen to this podcast, because actually we didn't grow up with it. And our kids are growing up with YouTube and social media and all those things. But also navigating a career like you've had, I think, is really interesting. and the juggle is always really interesting to not just women, but men of a certain age.

1:37Exactly, there's lots there, lots to talk about. Lots to talk about. But let's go back to the beginning. How do you end up being CEO of YouTube? Where does it all start? It's a great question because when I was at school, when I was at university, YouTube and Google didn't exist. We're always saying this to our kids, aren't we? The jobs you have might not exist. You are the personification. I didn't have this grand plan at all. And I think looking back on my career, actually what I did was I took a massive risk So I went into what was digital media in the late 90s, which then was actually CD-ROMs.

2:09It was intranet. So I worked in the civil service. I worked on intranets for MI5. I worked with the foreign office. But it was very different to what it is now because it was the dial-up modem. You know, you had to plug it in. So what were you doing? What was your role? Well, so we were advising government departments on how they could think about how to get communications across with CD-ROMs and, as I said, sort of internal communications like internet. So it was really, really basic. But what I saw was I saw that there was going to be, you know, a huge opportunity and huge positive change that would come from digital media.

2:39So I stuck with his career, which nobody knew what I was doing before, I would say for probably the first decade. But I loved it. And were you quite a lone wolf? Very much. I mean, yeah, it was very, you know, there were only a few of us who kind of worked in that industry. And actually, I remember the first rep coming along from Google and my boss at the time saying, that's never going to last. She's obviously a multimillionaire retired. And I think he left the industry quite quickly after that. But I went from the civil service to working in digital advertising agencies. And it was at the time when it was the dot-com boom.

3:11So suddenly, I don't even remember sort of the early 2000s, everything was about the internet, you know, sell whatever you could, you know, sort of, you know, have your dot-com for your name, for your family, you know, it was this frenzy. And that was fascinating because I was part of the dot-com boom. But then the bust also happened quite soon afterwards. So at the time I was working for an agency, there were 25 people. It went up to 100 six months later and back down to 25 six months after that. And I think for me, that was brilliant for my career in terms of sort of understanding the challenges that businesses can face and also building resilience.

3:45So I was fortunate that I kept my job, but it made me realize very early on that, you know, business is volatile. And also that, you know, things can happen which are out of your control. It's not personal. But I think that built real resilience in me from a young age. And so I carried along the digital path. I worked in advertising agencies. And then I went to Google 13 years ago. And so I was at Google for 11 years before joining YouTube two years ago in this role. By that point, you were sure this Google's going to be all right. This Google's fine. Exactly. Whatever my... Exactly. He was wrong.

4:15And this is actually... This is a great place to be. And I think what I've loved in my career is embracing that change, the cusp of positive change. And, you know, from the early dot-com boom days to, you know, first selling apps on the Internet to commercial websites to all the different changes that's happened. And at the beginning of your career, was it quite a male-dominated space? Because tech at that point, like 25, 30 years ago, feels like somewhere that wouldn't have been very female-dominated. It was then, yes. And I think it's been incredible to see the changes that have happened since then.

4:47You know, it's very different. And certainly the leadership team that I sit on is mixed. You know, it's 50-50. So there's been a lot of change and it's been amazing to be part of that change from within Google. And so, you know, I've certainly my time, my 11 years at Google, I was fortunate enough to be one of the first women to reach certain leadership positions. And so I've loved the role that I've played and been able to support other women who are, you know, who are building their careers as well. And I've really benefited from my male sponsors. I think that's really important. I think for certainly when I reflect back on pivotal moments in my career, it was certainly male managers who really pushed me.

5:27You know, I was very comfortable in my comfort zone, enjoying a role. I remember actually in my early 40s, I'd been at Google for three years. I loved my job. And he said to me, I think you should apply for this role in the UK leadership team. I thought, why on earth would I want to do that? You know, my job at the moment is fabulous. And, you know, he really saw potential in me and he pushed me outside of my comfort zone. I think you need those people who are really going to challenge you and really be your cheerleaders. Was it always going to be a corporate life for you? When you were little, when you were younger at home, did you have a mum who was a working professional woman?

5:59So my environment that I grew up in was very traditional in terms of the men were all, I'm saying men, multiple men, multiple fathers, all my fathers. All the role models. Exactly. My father and all of our friends were breadwinners. You know, the men were the breadwinners. Yet there was this group of fantastic, smart and feisty women, you know, and they didn't have the opportunities that we do now. And so I remember once being asked at school, what do you want to be? And I said, career woman. I didn't know what it meant. I don't know where it came from. I've no idea where it came from. Had you watched Working Girl or something?

6:32I think that's what exactly it was. It was literally, it was that. and I reflect back on my life and someone said to me recently, did you always want to be a leader? And I reflect back on my life and I definitely gravitated to leadership roles and my mum was reminding me the other day that when I was at nursery, I was an angel. I wanted Angel Gabriel's role. You know, I wanted that halo. You know, that halo was bigger than mine and I was, you know, busy galvanising the angels and I took leadership roles in, you know, in sports. Were you captains of sports teams? Yes, exactly. And also a sort of galvanising role with my friends.

7:05I've got a fantastic group of school friends. And we've been on holiday together every year since we were 17. And we've got a joint bank account. So I organise finances,£20 direct debit every month. And that means that when it gets to the end of the year, we've got our slush fund that we can go away with. And I'd also say I love leadership roles. I really enjoy it. I get a huge amount of energy from it. But that's not always been fashionable for a woman to say that. And there is still, I think, a language around female leaders that is different to men. And when I say fashionable, I mean, you know, that's probably the wrong word.

7:36It was almost women who were leaders too soon were kind of frowned upon because they had the traits that, you know, were seen as aggressive or confrontational, whereas a man would not be called that. And back when you started showing your leadership chops, did you ever feel any kind of pushback from society? Yes, I think that's a really fair challenge. I did. And I think it took me time to understand and work out what was my leadership style. because I didn't want to manifest being a leader and, you know, in the male kind of guys. Exactly. And I think, you know, someone like Sheryl Sandberg, you know, when I look back to Lean In, the book that came out, when was that?

8:13Probably the 90s. She was probably the first person that I was aware of who was really talking about women in the workplace and women as leaders. And, you know, it was quite controversial. She talked about Lean In because in some ways what she was saying was like, lean in sort of behave like a man but actually what i took from that was that i needed to think about how i wanted to show up in the workplace that was authentic to me and so you know the leaders who i respect most are people like serena viegman you know she what she does brilliantly is she's high performance she's very clear about she's high performance but she marries that with this emotional connection and really understanding you know her players and building that psychological safety and so over time i've really thought about what's my leadership style and actually some of the best feedback that I ever had was someone in my team and this was probably about 10 years ago who said you your leadership style favors extroverts and so you know I'm quite fast-paced you know in a meeting brainstorm what are we going to do you know quite excitable and and he was absolutely right it did yeah I had this incredible wealth of introverted talent who felt that they couldn't contribute in the same way that they would want to because of the way that I led and So simple things like I changed how I led meetings.

9:27I sent an agenda beforehand. I was very clear about the questions that I asked, that I was going to ask, and so they would be prepared for it. And going through that process, I read a book called Quiet by Susan Cain, which I don't know if you've ever read it, but it is fantastic. I read it in researching you, that this was a book that you really put a lot of weight into. And I got to the end of the first chapter and I thought, goodness, my husband, who I've been with for 20 years, is an introvert. And all of those years, we're going to a party and I'm saying, honey don't forget to sparkle he is thinking who's the one person i can talk to all night so it was a really fascinating experience because it made me i think a better leader but tell us what the premise of quiet is so in a world of extroverts uh shouty loud extroverts introverts are being drowned out and so it's about creating space to ensure that often the best ideas the more thoughtful ideas the detail comes from introverts and so it's just ensuring that you're getting that representation of views.

10:26Yeah, that was quite pivotal in terms of how I changed my leadership style. My leadership style, exactly, which became very authentic to me. Without changing, yeah, because authenticity is a word you've mentioned a few times, what's made you successful, obviously, is that energy and drive, but it's creating space for others, which I think everybody can learn from, whether they're leading a huge company or their family. Exactly, that's very true. And I think also as a leader, you realise that the more that you work, you realise your job is to inspire teams. It's not to have the answers. You know, people in my team have much better answers than I would have myself in certain areas.

11:00And so therefore, it's about creating the best environment for that. And building a team that you mentioned, Serena Wiegman, that is made for all kinds of personalities, all kinds of different characters, but the responsibility ultimately, like it does on Serena, fits with you. Exactly. Because you've created that team. Exactly. So which part of the process is the most enjoyable for you? Is it building that team, getting it together? or is it creating new projects? I mean, I've always got a huge amount of energy from building teams and actually a lot of the jobs that I've done have been building new teams.

11:31And so finding those dynamics and ensuring that those relationships and those partnerships work and working on new projects. I enjoy working sort of above and beyond the status quo. Yeah. And yeah, just seeing those, stimulating those thoughts. So if you didn't grow up in a household where you had that kind of alpha female role model, how did you know how to navigate the juggle? And, you know, you have children and you've talked about your husband. How did that process? Who was your role model there? Yeah, it's a great question. And I think my role models are my friends who have navigated it at the same time.

12:11Because as a generation, my age, so I'm 51, I think a similar age. Yeah, 51, exactly. So it wasn't necessarily I could see those role models who had done it beforehand. And so it was doing it with friends who were also, you know, going through trying to have a career and establishing their career and also wanting to have a family as well. So I've got two daughters. I've got a 19-year-old and a 15-year-old. And I actually, when my eldest daughter was young, I worked flexibly. and I actually worked flexibly for 15 years, which meant that I worked combinations of three days to four and a half days and actually went full time when they were both at secondary school.

12:49So that was something that I did. I wanted to make sure that I could be at the school gate and I could be part of their school life, but at the same time working. Did it feel like a risk in terms of your corporate trajectory? I didn't ever see it as that. Yeah. And people said that to me, you know, but you're working less time than your male colleagues or anyone else. But I didn't see it as that. I didn't. But I didn't ever see it like that. And so my husband is a film producer. He works freelance. And actually, that world is very extreme. So you're either on a shoot, you know, he was away for eight months once in Thailand, or he's around.

13:24And actually, when he's around, he could be around for six months. And so actually, he spent more time, I would say, with the girls when they were younger at the school gates than I did, because he had those stretches of time. Chunks of time. and I think what has worked very well is that you know we're a team we've both supported each other's careers and they've accelerated at different times what you don't want is the acceleration at the same time but the reality is is that and I think it frustrates me deeply when leaders sort of talk about you know portray it as it's really easy it's not you know there are times when you don't get it right and you need to admit that and and make adjustments you you know, whether it's my schedule or my husband's schedule and change things.

14:05And that's OK. And actually, there was one time. So after Covid, my husband was filming. He was away for about seven months and I felt quite burnt out after Covid. And I actually had a sabbatical for a year. I had a year out because both of my daughters had important school years. And I felt like that would be a really good opportunity for I really wanted to spend time with him and be there at those critical points. But also to recharge. I recognised that actually I needed to recharge. and it was interesting because when I came back from that sabbatical, this role became available and it was my North, like this was the goal.

14:37I've got a personal development plan and YouTube MD was at the top of the list. But I feel having come back from that year, I had the energy and I was sort of ready to go and, you know, really. Yeah, I mean, that's a very opportune moment for you to take time out. Not everybody, you know, can do that. And that's true, exactly. And I was very fortunate financially I was able to. Because you're right, it's not able. Yeah, and I think what struck me recently, I've been chatting to a few women who I work with in various ways around the industry, and one of them was talking about wanting to keep her kind of hand in the role that she has, but she's got two small boys.

15:15And I said, look, if I could give you any advice, just try and keep a little bit of work going. Because, you know, when they go to school, you will find more time opens up. And then, you know, she loves what she does, but she also wants to be a mum. And I just thought, gosh, it's like 20 years since I first started on this journey. And actually, we're in the same position. Nothing's really changed because women are the primary carers predominantly, aren't they? And even if you're not the primary carer, you're the primary CEO of your household. I've known very few households where the man makes all those kinds of macro decisions about just how the household is run.

15:47Women still seem to carry the burden of the household. So I would say actually we are 50-50. My husband is a much better cook than me and he's much more creative. and so all of as the kids are growing up all the painting and all the craft he would do all of that and so and because he's had those big chunks away when he's been around then he has you know he takes on that you know running the house completely Do you think that women perhaps need to step back and let their partners do that then? I think it's so personal isn't it? It so depends on you know your relationship and also what your strengths are I suppose what we're trying to get to is a position where we have parity in those kinds of you know I mean, we were discussing this on the podcast recently.

16:29Obviously, it was International Women's Day not so long ago. And 2158 is the year when apparently we're going to get gender parity in pay, right? It's five generations away. So to get to that situation, other things need to start to feel more equitable, don't they, around our lives? And I think actually what can really make a difference is shared parental leave. So it's when it happens at the beginning. And so it's that understanding from day one of, you know, looking after a baby, responsibility. And so I definitely see that in the next generation in the workplace. That's interesting because a lot of men, especially at my husband's age, go, oh, you're getting time off to look after your baby.

17:04But actually, it's about more than just changing the baby's nappy, isn't it? Exactly. And I think there was a real stigma. Even 10 years ago, I remember the first person in my team, a man who said that he wanted to take shared parental leave. and he was given feedback from someone else that he wasn't ambitious. He was demonstrating he wasn't ambitious. So I think that has changed radically in the last 10 years, which is brilliant because it all starts at the beginning, doesn't it? Yeah, and I'm not saying that, like, in our house, we're quite traditional in things that we, you know, I would say Kenny's outside, I'm inside.

17:37Do you know what I mean? In terms of, yeah, anything that's going on outside the front door in terms of, you know, he's really into the land and fixing things. And I definitely wouldn't have the career that I've got and be able to do the things I do without his support. But it's in a slightly kind of different way. But I still feel like when it comes down to kind of, you know, driving things like where holidays are going to be or, you know, all those kinds of things. You would organise that. The organiser, yeah. And the one that draws up the blackboard on the Sunday night when they're at school.

18:04Who's doing what. Yeah, who's doing what, who's where, the logistical operations. Yeah, all those things, which are the bread and butter and the backbone, I think. Yeah, exactly. A two-parent working household. Exactly, exactly. And I think as your kids get older as well, they give you feedback. I remember my daughter once gave me constructive feedback on parenting, which was great, actually. What was the particular area she thought you could improve? I think she felt I'd gone from 0 to 100 in terms of, you know, just sort of, you've done what? Oh, right. And there could have been more of a conversation in between.

18:34But actually, it was good. But as your kids get older, it's much easier in that way. and that, you know, it's much more of a dialogue and, you know, you hear from them what's working, what isn't and actually the things that you think matters to them don't as much is something that you haven't realised matters and they have less problems for bigger problems. Absolutely. And it's the pressure we put on ourselves, isn't it, to try and kind of get everything nailed and you're just not going to get everything nailed. There's always going to be times when the balls are dropped along the way. But I will say, mine being both 19 now, it is lovely when you get to that stage where you can start to kind of enjoy your career in a different way again.

19:08Oh, exactly. Because you're kind of in that moment now. Yes, and you have a bit more time, don't you? Which is amazing.

19:18I hope you're enjoying this episode of The Midpoint. If you are, it would be amazing if you could give us a review and subscribe. It really helps. I'll be back in a moment.

19:31So let's talk about YouTube, because you said that was the Holy Grail almost. It was the job you really wanted. what was it about YouTube in particular that you felt was so exciting? And first of all actually, what is YouTube? How would you describe YouTube to somebody who's just landed from another planet? Well it's a phenomenon isn't it? And I think there is only one YouTube. It's not a platform that has existed before because it's the biggest video archive in the world and it's content that is creator content, it's broadcast content, it's partner content, we have fantastic sports content from Sky Sports and BBC and ITV.

20:08It's music. And so it is, yeah, it is a phenomenon. And what's incredible is to think in 20 years, 20 years ago the first video was uploaded, sort of grainy 15-second bit of content, that now you have every different format. So you've got lots of long-form content. We have a lot of video podcasts actually now. Podcasts are huge as well as live. We have some live sports. Women's Super League is a great example of where they use YouTube to reach other audiences. Obviously, fantastic deals with BBC and Sky Sports, but actually the matches that aren't on there are on YouTube, which is a great way of growing their audiences of their games.

20:49And how does your model differ when it comes to sport, for example? Obviously, BBC or IT would pay for rights, Sky would pay for rights. For sports that are trying to grow, sitting on your platform is an attractive proposition to that. Exactly. It's a distribution platform. and so anyone can create a channel, anyone with a passion, with a mobile phone, wherever you live in this country or any other country, you can build your channel and build a business and so for any sports club, it's simply a case of setting up a channel, it's uploading content, you can obviously post some live stuff if it's not related to rights.

21:27We have channel membership where you can show exclusive content so you could charge a bit for that but everything else is free so it's a fantastic way to build an audience. Or an advertising. And then you earn from the advertising model, obviously. So we have a programme called the YouTube Partner Programme whereby when you hit certain thresholds, you can monetise the content. And so if you were a content creator, you'd get 55 % of the advertising revenue and YouTube would get 45 % of it. And so it then becomes a really good revenue channel as well and you can start selling merchandise and caps and whatever it is.

21:57So there are different revenue streams that can be bought at the back of it too. And is it truly global? Are there corners of the world where YouTube isn't? It is truly global. And that's what's phenomenal about it. Because on average for a UK creator, over 85 % of the audience is actually outside of the UK. And so what you can do is you can build a global brand, you know, very, very easily. And I think what's fascinating I hear from creators is that sometimes they can be really surprised by they've got huge interest from Indonesia or Korea or, you know, know a country that they wouldn't have naturally marketed to as well so it is it's truly global and what we you know what you're seeing now with much better translation tools and you know auto dubbing is actually the ability then to translate into different languages so you could upload your content in english and translate it into different languages too which is you know and build those connections in other markets so obviously there's a lot of positivity with youtube and and there are you know and there's a lot of positivity with lots of social media platforms but we're speaking in a week where everybody's talking about adolescence yes the netflix show gareth southgate gave his dimblebee lecture last night and i think a lot of the things he spoke to are around the disenchantment and the disenfranchised kind of particularly male youth in this country and we know that a lot of the some of the recent kind of horrific cases we've heard about violence against women in particular a lot of these characters are using the internet and whether that's platforms like youtube to fuel their anger and their hate how do you police your platform to make sure that the content isn't driving I mean the first thing I'd say to that is it is our number one priority, child safety absolutely number one priority to make sure that the content on the platform is safe.

23:41We have really robust community guidelines so we have policies around hate speech, misogyny etc and therefore any of that content would be removed Are they robust enough for you? They are. So I feel very confident about the community policies that we have in place for YouTube. And we also really focus on age-appropriate experiences at different stages for children. So, for example, we've got YouTube Kids, which is a walled garden environment. So that means that, you know, the content within that is very curated, specifically for those age groups. We have supervised experiences as well. So that means for tweens and teens that parents can see what the content their children are watching too.

24:24And we have an independent youth advisory board. So they are independent of YouTube. So they guide us on different policies. And our policies are always changing. You know, we're always looking at things that we can do better. So one of the recommendations that they had was take a break guidelines, a reminder of bedtime. So things to prompt people to stop watching content and to think about their own digital well-being. So it is, you know, across all the different areas, we care very deeply about ensuring that the content is appropriate and that we've got the right processes and policies in place.

24:58Because it's clearly a problem in society. Phone addiction and people living their lives kind of just scrolling through content is something you just need to walk around here. look around and people are kind of lost in that kind of you know and it might not all be stuff that's leading them into thoughts that aren't healthy some of it might just be quite benign stuff but there is a section of society that is being shown and is kind of seeing things which which aren't good for them and you know as a as a parent of 19 year olds obviously have navigated social media over the last six years or so i just wouldn't want to be starting that journey right now with kids of 9, 10 or 11.

25:37And I think your point about a parent is a really important one because we take our responsibility as a platform very seriously, but also as a parent, I know my role. What was your role? How did you navigate it with your kids? So having very honest conversations about content that they are watching, about social media that they are on, about flagging things that they were concerned about, you know. And so I think the more that you can just keep a really open dialogue and that your children will come to you if there's anything they're well. worried about a time limit we didn't no we didn't we didn't ever have a time limit but we as they've got older we've really encouraged them to self-regulate and so that they that they will look at they will look at their screen time now and they will look at how long they've been on for and you know whether it was too long on tuesday and you know spending less time on wednesday but that's certainly as they get older they're able to do that much and do they are they quite they do they do yes they're much more they're they are they're really conscious of it now Do you think it's a conversation that their peers are having?

26:33They are having it with each other, with their own groups. They're mindful of the way they feel when they're consuming too much. Too much of it, exactly. And certainly from a YouTube perspective, obviously mobile is one way that people watch YouTube and we have a short format, but actually our fastest growing platform is the TV. So people are watching much more longer form content and so it's becoming much more of that sort of, you know, that living room experience, you know, this sort of... Shared experience. The shared experience as well. Do you think, and on that basis, can you see a swing back to that kind of communal TV water cooler moment?

27:13Because I think while the success of Netflix and lots of other platforms has given us this massive choice, you know, you can watch anything you like about anything you like, it's taken away those moments, those kind of 15 million people watching the same drama and discussing it the next day. It happens actually mainly through sport, doesn't it? Live sport is the moment that you get that. Can you see a time when we will want to kind of go back to that slightly more nourishing experience? Well, interesting. I mean, I know a lot of younger people actually listen to music, watch music on YouTube and the TV and use it as a speaker.

27:45Right. So that's a lovely communal way that younger groups are sort of using on YouTube. And certainly as a family, we do exactly that. We watch the Women's Super League on YouTube as a family together. and we watch linear TV as well but I think it is providing more of that opportunity for those, as you say, the communal family moments. We hear these anecdotes, don't we, about kind of the bosses of Silicon Valley banning phones for their kids, not allowed to have, you know, giving their kids analogue phones because they know the harm that the content is doing and in terms of concentration and everything else.

28:18Do you guys get together, you big tech bosses, and kind of, you know... Discuss it. Yeah. No. No, and I think I've heard in one of your podcasts that your kids got smartphones when they were 13, didn't they? My kids got smartphones slightly earlier when they went to secondary school. And as I said, our strategy for parenting has always been about the conversations and about ensuring that we're really aware about the content that they're watching and the social media platforms that they're using. It does feel, though, Alison, doesn't it, that there are some parents who just, you know, for whatever reason, just aren't aware, you know, that their child being kind of in their bedroom for three or four hours, and it was said in the adolescence script, wasn't it, that we thought he was safe because he's indoors.

29:01And actually, you know, as the kind of saying goes, you're inviting 5 ,000 other people into your bedroom, you know, kind of because you're on your phone or you're on your device when you're a 12, 13-year-old boy. And it does feel that even though if you're really invested in the conversation, you'll read a lot about it, you'll hear a lot about it, you'll chat about it, there's a lot of people that are still perhaps a bit naive to it when it comes to the parenting. Quite possibly, quite possibly. But obviously the Online Safety Act has been enforced now. We didn't wait until the Online Safety Act.

29:27Do you think that will change things? It's positive. There are implications. So I think it is positive. We will always want to be, as I mentioned, our policies are always evolving because we want to always ensure that we are on the front foot here and we're doing everything that we can to make sure you achieve a safe environment. Would you ban phones from schools? Personally, so my daughter at the moment, she has a system where they hand the phone in, which I think works very well. So it's a pouch, I can't remember what it's called, it's got some snappy name. Yeah, I know what you mean. And I think that works well.

30:10But actually, flipping to positive thinking about schools, one of the feedback that we get from teachers is how positive YouTube is for learning. and certainly what I have seen and having gone through GCSEs and A-levels is there are some brilliant creators like free science lessons I don't know if you ever used any of the creators to support the supplements and the learning for exams But they can be on a big screen, can't they? Yes, exactly and I think particularly for neurodiverse kids who might learn in a different way actually video is a great way of enhancing the science lessons or English or whatever else And reaching kids in areas of the world where they might not have access to the kind of education that is an enormous benefit, isn't it?

30:49Yes, exactly. And also kids, you know, there's obviously in America, there's a lot of homeschooled kids, way more than here, but that was something that seemed to be taking off a little bit post-COVID, didn't it? Kids being homeschooled. Yes, so that's a real positive.

31:21So the day-to-day life of the boss of YouTube, I imagine, is not all glamour, but it is one of those jobs that I imagine you get to do some very exciting things because you mentioned already you've got a great passion for women's football, for women's sport, and you've been heavily involved in that. Do you bring your passions to the table quite often in terms of the direction of travel for YouTube? So YouTube, the brilliant thing about YouTube is it's sort of democratised content creation. and so ultimately the creators are deciding what's the content that's going to be on YouTube and so in terms of me directing, you know, where are we going to sort of lead?

31:55It's not like we don't commission content and I think that's what's incredible about YouTube and how different the model is, is that there are no gatekeepers. If you've got an idea and a passion, you can create a channel. I mean, what I will say is, and what I've loved in my job, is I've been able to, like my eldest daughter's actually really into music. So she learned to play the piano on YouTube. it's a bit of an embarrassing story actually I need to find out who she followed do you want to learn? yes, well I've been on and off for the last 50 years oh really? 50 years? well I started when about four I will share it afterwards but she wanted piano lessons, she did a lot of other stuff and so we said no and then so she taught us how she played Bohemian Rhapsody to the entire school, the headmaster took us to one side, suggested maybe she should have piano lessons and she's now going on to study music at university Oh my gosh, she's one of your greatest adverts.

32:44It was, it was. And so what it's meant, I suppose going back to your original question, is that in my role I've been able to provide opportunities for her to have access to music, you know, to artists, to, you know, there's fantastic music content that we have on YouTube and events that we do around music as well. And I'm really passionate about sport and entertainment. I don't know if you went to the Sidemen charity match, did you hear about that? I did hear about it, yeah. Sidemen versus YouTube All-Stars. Yeah, I think we were saying we could have Six Nations games. It was, it was, exactly.

33:12I mean, that was phenomenal. I mean, I think that just shows, that's a real example of how YouTube was sort of, you know. And so Sideman was one of a group of, one of the original kind of YouTube as well. Yes, eight friends. Yeah, my son's kind of a fan of those guys. Of them, exactly. So eight friends set up a YouTube channel, you know, probably 10 years ago now, just over 10 years ago now. And so they have this Sideman versus YouTube All Stars charity match, which they raised 4.8 million for charity, which is phenomenal. Sold at Wembley in two hours. So there were 90 ,000 people in Wembley and two and a half million people watching it live and something like, I mean, goodness knows, 30 million views since then.

33:46I mean, it was huge. But what was brilliant was it felt like a real moment where, you know, YouTube was at the epicentre of culture. You know, it was a real buzz that weekend, wasn't it? And it felt like this fusion of sport and entertainment. Yeah, there's a real democracy about it all, isn't there? Yes, exactly, exactly. I always say to kids who, I assume they're kids, younger people who message me on social media about how to get into my job and my role. You know, you've got so many opportunities to broadcast yourself without waiting for a BBC or an ITV or a Sky to come along and offer you a job.

34:17And then that might be the end game. But you have a chance to create your own. Exactly. Exactly. Which is fantastic. You know, certainly didn't when I started. Yeah. And I think also the difference is that, you know, probably when you started, a lot of the jobs were based within the M25. And obviously on YouTube, it means that, you know, talent anywhere. You know, you have to travel. You can be in your room. You can, you know, you can create from anywhere. So I think that democratisation of access is great in terms of just overall opportunity. No, it's fair. Now, we've established we're the same age, 51.

34:48And so obviously this podcast occasionally veers into kind of the physical changes and the emotional changes that happen to women during the menopause. Is that something as a business that because you're going through that stage of life that you've become more aware of? Have you seen the content change? Because certainly the conversation is a lot wider, isn't it, about menopause in society? Yes, and I have to say one of the things that really struck me starting this job, I was so surprised by the community of health creators. There are so many incredible health creators who are GPs, surgeons, you know, lots of different jobs, medical jobs, who are also YouTubers.

35:22And they've created their channels so they can reach more audiences and they can scale the job that they do, you know, limited to the amount of patients as well. And a number of those really focus on the menopause. There's one called Dr. Nigga. I don't know if you've ever come up with her. Yes, yeah, yeah. She's been on the... She is fabulous. And a number of them sort of, you know, talk about the menopause. And so that has been, that's a great channel for them to, obviously, to reach more people. And it's something that, you know, it's only since Davina's documentary that anyone even started talking about the menopause.

35:54I mean, it's phenomenal, isn't it? If you look back and think, that was probably only five years ago. And now there is so much more healthy conversation around it. Yeah. So as a business, do you have any... I'm always asked this when I kind of go and speak to companies or I speak to individuals. They ask about kind of policies for businesses. And I don't work in that environment. You know, I don't work in that kind of one corporate environment every day. So as a corporation, does YouTube have a policy for menopause? So we have signed up to the menopause. There's a government. Exactly. The menopause manifesto.

36:26And so we are part of that. And we run lots of different events and we have lots of speakers who come in to talk about it. Because you don't want to lose that talent. No, exactly. And that's what you do, which is the one thing that I find so cruel about it all. Just when women are kind of really hitting their stride and their family might have grown up, that they feel they can't be in a front-facing, big corporate role. Exactly. And it has such a different impact on people, doesn't it? I mean, for some people, they really can't work. So, yeah, it's something that we are much more mindful as an organisation and talk about.

36:56Just talking about it is the first point. and so for you it's not it's not something that has been a big kind of barrier to getting back to work because I imagine that year off that you took so I in terms of the menopause it's all sort of bound up really in the fabulous 50 so I was well I was 50 you know 18 months ago and I talked about this fabulous 50 and how it's going to be an incredible year and I found a lump in my breast and so I suddenly it was not part of the plan at all and I found out I had breast cancer and went through six months of chemotherapy. So I've just come off the back of that.

37:32Obviously, what that does is it brings on your menopause. So that's a double whammy. It's a double whammy, exactly. Dealing with that and running YouTube. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it was an incredibly, incredibly hard year. I had a month off for the operation, the original operation. And then I decided I wanted to continue working during chemotherapy. That was my choice. No one was making me work. I think people really worried about this awful American corporation that was making me work. And that wasn't the case at all. I chose to work. I had manageable symptoms. You get energy from your work.

38:02And I loved my job. I absolutely loved my job. And it gave me structure and purpose and normality as well. And I think, you know, I definitely realised that I've got lots of great friends at work. I've been in the business for the company for 13 years and also within the industry. I know a lot of people. And so I got a huge amount of strength from them and also my team who were unbelievable and incredibly supportive. So I made that decision to carry on working. Are you feeling good now? Everything's good? Yeah, it's good. And so now it's just a case of rebuilding. So I think about this year as emotional and physical rebuilding.

38:34I'm someone who I'm an optimist, you know, I love life. And I'm very excited to be out and about again. And so I need to make sure I almost need to put the brakes on myself. I need to make sure that I don't try to do too much. Because my body has been through a lot and I need to give myself time to actually rebuild. You've always enjoyed sport. Has it changed anything about the way you're kind of living your life or doing anything different? It's changed everything. Yeah, it really, really has. And I think in terms of diet. So I had a really sweet tooth. You know, I loved sugar. And so just trying to cut that out more.

39:08I've read lots of books. I went to this incredible nutritional workshop at a charity called Future Dreams. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. They're a breast cancer charity actually based in Kings Cross. So they have in-person events and then also virtual events too. And I did a brilliant nutritional workshop there, which was fantastic at ensuring that I now understand the rainbow diet and everything that I can eat and everything I can't eat, drink much less alcohol, you know, much more conscious of everything around diet. And also, yeah, health, just sort of fitness. I used to play tennis.

39:39Now I go to the gym once a week, focusing on strength and muscle. I've started Reforma Pilates. and I have to say I did see a video of you doing reformed pilates and you looked incredibly good at it. I fell off the bed the first time. Well, it's just practice, you know. Is it? Yeah, it's just practice. You've just got to kind of build up. But yeah, I love it. I love all pilates. But definitely the last five years it's become, I'd say, the foundation for everything else because I still want to be able to do all the other sports and weights and everything and that just keeps your body. It's incredible, isn't it?

40:08I mean, I hardly ever see a physio, you know. Really? And I think that's probably the reason why. Yeah, so I'm only two months in and now I've stopped falling off, which is great. But I've really loved doing that. And so I'm, yeah, much more, and I do, you know, yoga once a day, I did 12 minutes of yoga. So I've really rethought my life. I thought I was healthy. I didn't think I was healthy. Well, it's just a reset, isn't it, sometimes? It's a reset. You get reminded as well of your own mortality, don't you? You do, yeah. And it was, yeah, and I definitely didn't expect it. Both of my parents actually had cancer.

40:41My dad died when I was quite young, and my mum's got Hodgkin's lymphoma. And so I expected to get cancer at some stage, but I didn't expect to get it when I was 50. And breast cancer isn't my family either. And so it was, yeah, it definitely was a huge shock. But just try and take what positive I can from it in terms of, yeah, resetting. And also just real gratitude, gratitude for being able to be out and about again and, you know, go to sports events and do all the things that I love doing and spending more time with friends and family. And how were your girls? Were they okay with you? They were amazing.

41:14They're incredibly strong. My poor eldest daughter, she was going through A-levels. So she was going through her practical, music practicals and all her exams. And, you know, it's really difficult, really, really difficult. The month that I was off was May. So I spent May testing her on flashcards. I was there before every exam on the sofa with the flashcards. And so, you know, there was something lovely about that. But no, they're great. they're incredibly they're resilient I mean it gives them gratitude as well I think you know take for granted you you realize actually I caught it early and and that's with breast cancer and so now you know I say to everyone check your boobs you know it's about it's about catching it early yeah and was that only through you checking yes I'd had private mammograms before and I was due my 50 you get a free mammogram obviously when you're 50 and I was just waiting for mine when I found it myself so just say to everyone just you can never be too careful if you're at all worried to go to the doctor.

42:11So this seems like the dream job and you're now into a period of your life, you know, everything you articulated there where you can really enjoy it. Is there anything else? And is the glass ceiling kind of, you know, has it been smashed completely, do you feel? Are you, is there anything that you really want to get your teeth into, either outside of YouTube, in the corporate world, or just in terms of the things you're passionate about? So, I mean, I, yeah, I feel like with my job, I've got so much runway, You know, there is so much more that I can do. I'm really excited about, we've actually just commissioned a consultation.

42:42We've gone out to all the creators in the UK and say, what do you want to supercharge? What do you need to supercharge your business? What's holding you back? Because all of these, they're small businesses. And so we've got the results of that coming back soon. And I'm really excited about what that means, what it means at YouTube, what we can do differently, what we can do with other platforms, the industry, and also what we could take to government, say to the government, you've got this whole creator economy. You know, creative industries in the UK have always been brilliant. You know, we've always had such incredible soft power.

43:10And this is the next generation of that creative economy coming through. And so I'm really excited about that and where that might lead and being able to sort of, yeah, supercharge all these creators. So for midlife people listening to this or, you know, anybody kind of over the age of probably 40 that thinks, oh, could I be a creator? You know, give them inspiration. Absolutely. In fact, I was at an event last week, an International Women's Day event with the automotive sector, and I was with this fantastic founder, this brilliant woman, Ginny Buckley, and she set up a YouTube channel, Electrifying.

43:44So it's all about electric cars. I think I used to follow her on X, actually. I did, too. So she's got this brilliant YouTube business. I'm saying used to, I still probably do. You still do. I didn't stop following her for any reason. Don't follow Ginny. Please carry on. And she set it on when she was 50. so there is and that's what I love about you know YouTube is it's all ages you know all genders or you know it's and when I think about some really successful podcast creators on YouTube there is Robbie Lyle who's AFTV Gary Neville his brother is one of my bosses at BBC Sport Robbie Lyle oh really his brother Stephen is the head of football and then Gary Neville you think about the overlap the success that they've had there so the overlap first broadcast on YouTube so it's huge exactly it's a YouTube it's a YouTube podcast and podcasts are growing hugely.

44:32We've got over a billion viewers of podcasts. We need to take the midpoint to the... I think, I mean, I was going to pitch it. I was waiting. I think you kind of have by kind of default there, just stealth-like. Yeah, video podcasts are huge and the overlap is a great example. Yeah. And they've built an audience. That's incredible, yeah. And a global audience. Yeah, well, they've just gone to the US, haven't they, recently as well to do a kind of second launch almost. Exactly, exactly. So it's never too late. There's no stopping Gary Neville. If you've met him, I'm sure he's been on the midpoint.

45:06Yeah, he's got a lot of energy and a lot of passions. He's brilliant. So yeah, I would absolutely say it's never too late. Whatever the idea you have, do it. Excellent. Well, you are somebody, I think, who says, you know, you say one thing, you do that thing as well. You're not somebody who's just saying it and not doing it. So I think that's great words of wisdom and inspiration from your story as well. Thank you so much for joining us. Best of luck with everything going forward. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's been brilliant.

45:37A huge thanks to Alison for being so honest and open and sharing a lot about the tech world and her journey in it and how she balances that and her personal life, which has had its own challenges in the last few years. This episode was produced by Spiritland Creative. I'll be back next Wednesday and I hope you can join me for more of the same then. Bye for now. Thank you.