Amanda Wakeley OBE

0:04Hello, Gabby here. Welcome back to The Midpoint. Today I'm joined by fashion designer turned podcaster Amanda Wakeley. Amanda launched her eponymous fashion line in 1990 and quickly became known for her signature clean glam aesthetic, which was beloved by the likes of Diana, the Princess of Wales. Her famous Chelsea store on the Fulham Road went from strength to strength, and in 2010, Amanda was awarded an OBE for her service to fashion. Well, the pandemic heralded change for lots of people, and Amanda was one of them. After three decades of success during During Covid, the company entered administration.

0:42But far from stepping back and enjoying a quieter life, Amanda has turned her attention to podcasting and launched Style DNA, which is currently in its seventh season. Now in her early 60s, Amanda is as glamorous as she's ever been. So I'm keen to discover all she's learned from midlife about fashion and beyond.

1:05Amanda Wakeley, welcome to The Midpoint. Thank you so much. It's so lovely to see you, Gabby. And you, what a glorious backdrop. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite so... I want to dive into that luxury. You're obviously somewhere in the mountains, and I'm sure it's very restorative wherever you are. Are you feeling very zen-like today? I am. I'm in Switzerland, at our home in Switzerland, and I am trying my best to write my book, which is very exciting. But I am, you know, I'm not a writer. So it's, you know, some days it's amazing. And other days, like today, it's just, it hasn't, it hasn't flowed.

1:49Is this your story you're writing? It is. Yes. It's Style DNA, which as you know, is my podcast. And I'm passionate about why we wear what we wear and the stories connected to our clothes. And so it is all about that, but with my life woven in there. Well, I hope. I mean, that's what I'm trying. I do have a meeting with my editor in a week's time. So I hope, you know, I feel like I've handed in my schoolwork because I've handed in two chapters. I do feel like I've handed in my schoolwork. You're waiting for the marks coming back and how much red pen is on those first characters. It's quite nerve-wracking, isn't it?

2:35It's a long time since I sent work in to be marked. Although, having said that, putting a collection down the catwalk is like putting your schoolwork in. Absolutely. I'm sure it's even more petrifying because it's your life, it's your work. Let's go back to post-school and your first working life, I guess, at the beginning of your working life. When you knew, I mean, it's the irony that your podcast is called Style DNA. Something in your DNA, obviously, led you into a life of style and into a life of making people look good. When did you know you had something innate? How young were you? I was quite little when I started to delve into this big wooden chest on our landing at home.

3:21And I was lucky. I had two very glamorous grandmothers, one who would travel a lot with my grandfather and they'd return from sort of exotic places like Salon, as it was known back in the day, or India, with saris and just gorgeous pieces of fabric. And my other grandmother was sort of much more country, but still very glamorous, you know, little fur tippets and all of that. So it was very early on that I became very conscious of my senses, what something felt like. And that was just innate in me. And then I started to get onto the sewing machine and start messing around with bits and bobs and tie dyeing.

4:14And, you know, as we did back in the 70s. When you were able to get to the point where you're launching your own label, which is I imagine most young designers, that's the dream, isn't it? To have something eponymous, something that that is your name is all over it. You're not working for anybody else. Did you have an innate sense of what you wanted women to look like wearing your clothes and who that woman was? Do you know, it's funny you say that. I mean, I didn't launch till 1990, but that's a long time ago in terms of how we were all approaching design, brands. You know, now you wouldn't dream of launching a brand without sort of a mission statement, brand values, you know, all of that thoroughly worked out.

4:59I just was you know a young woman who wanted to design a small collection of pieces that I loved and that I thought other people would love too and so I you know I can't sit here and say Gabby I had this vision because I didn't I just did what I loved I did what I knew I thought I was pretty unemployable so I just did it you because I I mean I certainly couldn't afford your clothes when I first started working, but I remember going into your shop that was on the borders of Fulham and Chelsea. It was on the Fulham Road, wasn't it? And there was just something innately luxurious and aspirational, but also, and my mum used to say this to me, things looked wearable and comfy.

5:46The clothes never wore the woman. They always appeared to be in control. You know, do you know what I mean by that? That they didn't look like the clothes were hurting them. I'm so glad you say that because my innate mission was I wanted women to feel the best version of themselves. I understood the power of how clothes make us feel because I'm a woman. And so I just wanted as many other women as I could dress to feel like that. And so when you look back at that kind of time in your life and what happened through your brand. It feels like you're having now maybe a second or third iteration of yourself, you know, that you've come through many different, as you point out, different ways of working in business, different ways of selling fashion.

6:33The fashion industry has changed so much. Can you believe you're still working in this industry? Do you know what? If you'd have asked me 20 years ago, if I would be starting a whole new chapter of my life, of my career at 59, I'd have said, you're having a laugh. But actually, that's exactly what I did do. And I have to say, it's been the most exciting, most challenging, and sort of phenomenally creative, happy time for me these past few years, getting a podcast off the ground, getting really into the whole social media side of things because, you know, someone else had done that previously, you know, during Amanda Wakeley fashion era.

7:21And just really taking ownership of it all has felt incredibly exciting and liberating. And there was a period of time where you weren't on that kind of day-to-day running of the business. Tell us a little bit about what was going on in your life at that point? Well, just to go back a bit, in 2012, we took on private equity and I became a minority shareholder at that point. But it allowed the business to expand and, you know, open up a beautiful flagship store in Mayfair and all the rest of it. You know, that allowed me to be more the creative vision rather than have to do the business side of things.

8:08I mean, I certainly was on the board and all the rest of it, but it gave me more time and freedom for the creative side of things. And, you know, that was all going swimmingly until COVID hit. And, you know, COVID decimated my business, as it did many. But I always say that, you know, out of bad, so often comes good. There's always a silver lining in life. And I have to say, you know, I'm not saying COVID was a silver lining, but actually being forced off the hamster wheel of Amanda Wakeley, in retrospect, was, you know, I'd done it for 30 years. I was absolutely spent. I was knackered. I was really tired to the core.

8:58And at that point in your life around then, you experienced great personal loss as well. I did. Literally within two weeks, I'd lost the business and I lost my brother two weeks later. Now, I knew both of those events were coming to a head, as it were. but you never imagine how it's going to feel when all of that happens together. You've spoken quite beautifully actually about how that sibling connection and the death of a sibling is something that perhaps we underestimate maybe in our lives, kind of how much that is going to impact us because I think people certainly would recognise that losing a child is one of the great losses for anybody to go through.

9:49And losing your parents feels like a big disconnect with your childhood. But actually, losing a sibling, especially at an age that seems very premature, and you would say that about your brother, was hugely impactful in your life. Hugely, hugely. You know, he died at my age now. and I know how much more living I've got to do, how much more life I've got to live and it saddens me so deeply that he's not here doing the same thing. But I think the sibling relation, losing a sibling is, you know, I spent some time talking to brilliant, brilliant grief counsellor, Julia Samuel. she's been on the midpoint a couple of times she's amazing just honestly anyone who's struggling with grief you know she has this book called grief works she's got an app called grief works it is work you've got to work your way through it i just found it so useful actually because charlie died in may i had a conversation with julia and we agreed to pick up in september of that year but she also said you know download the app and I must admit on those days that I found it sort of really confrontational dealing with the grief I just going on to that app and just doing a few of her little exercises was just brilliant.

11:19What were the kind of things that you would get a lot from? Whether it was journaling or you know writing down three things that you missed most about the person that had gone or it was just little things that just made the whole thing feel oh just brought him back to me in a in a very visceral way but in a way that I was processing it I'm not explaining that very well and actually it's it's it's a funny thing and it's probably like women and childbirth I haven't been there but you know you you get through it it's hugely painful and then the body and the mind has a way of actually forgetting some of that deep deep deep hurt which is which is nature at its best I think yeah but I know I all I can say it was it was hugely helpful to me and she was hugely helpful to me but I remember her saying you know first off your sibling relationships are the longest relationships you will have in your life and you sort of think oh my god I always thought that you you think that that's your parent but it's not it's your siblings and that was sort of quite instructive to me and you know sibling relationships can be complicated too you know you can be someone's wingman And as a teenager, and then they get married and you get married and you, you know, you go off and do your own things and then sort of your lives are like helix.

13:02Weave in and out. Yeah, yeah. She also pointed out to me quite correctly, because I'm one of those people that just goes on and on and on. And I'd had a bit of a string of, I was very violently mugged. And then I'd lost a very precious dog of 15 and a half years. And then my mother broke her leg during COVID. And that was all very complex. And then we got the news on Charlie. And then I was told by the private equity company that because I was the sole director in the trading company, I was going to be the one that had to put Amanda Wakeley into administration, which was quite a gulp. So it was quite a lot.

13:46You know, I had lots to process that I had, honestly. And I remember my first session with her, she just said, whoa, hang on a sec. This isn't just about Charlie. This is about this, this, this and this. Let's just unpick these layers a little bit. and and I feel really lucky that actually I had that moment of pause that I could do that. Yeah there's a lot of grief going on there isn't there because even though you feel now that the reset in your business life was the best thing that happened for you at the time we we tie up so much of our identity don't we with our professional lives and completely and that would feel somehow that you'd let some something or somebody down.

14:32I mean, it was, it was my identity, totally. You know, it was an eponymous brand. You know, if I'm brutally honest, I probably hadn't had children because I've been too busy building a business. Don't feel sorry for me. You know, I made that decision at the time. But sort of when that goes, you're suddenly, what am I, what do I stand for? And then you come out the other side of that and you think, actually, that's fantastically freeing. I've got 30 years of phenomenal experience, knowledge. I've worked in an industry that I'm passionate about, but actually it's time for a new chapter.

15:15I hope you're enjoying this episode of The Midpoint. If you are, it would be amazing if you could give us a review and subscribe it really helps i'll be back in a moment so the podcast you have some amazing guests come on and and you you kind of talk about style and influences and how important clothes and fashion are in their lives as well as other conversations that that kind of emanate from that and and i think i always feel with as i mentioned before with the style of your clothes as well. The character of the woman shines through. Is that something that, you know, now you always look so elegant and dress beautifully, but fashion is different for different people, isn't it?

15:57And it means different things. How would you describe your own personal style? It's an interesting one because I always ask my podcast guests, okay, how would you describe your style in three words? And I think, you know, when I think of my brand, it was very clean glam. And for me, I'll just add the word sportif onto that because I love my sport and a lot of what I wear has a sort of sporting influence, but it might be quite glamorous in the way, but it's sort of understated too. and in terms of the midlife woman i think we we've touched occasionally on fashion and clothing through the the last five years but it's quite it's quite an interesting area i think even if you're working out you're in good shape and you you know you feel you can still wear similar size clothing your body does change and how you feel in things that you might have worn 25 years ago.

16:58It's just not, as a woman, it's just not the same, is it? And I can't quite put my finger on it. It isn't. And I do think that the industry is slightly missing a trick. And, you know, there'll be this token older woman on the catwalk or this token older woman in an ad campaign. But actually, what we need is lots of women our age and a little bit older, a little bit younger, looking and feeling great in their clothes, but actually not necessarily looking like their grandmother or their mother. You know, I think we're into a whole new era where, you know, I dress far younger probably than I did 30 years ago, but then my mother did when she was my age.

17:44It's a whole new era. And I think, you know, I hate to use the word, the term the silver pound, but you know we've got more time more spare cash we have never looked better for longer sell to us appeal to us and I think the fashion industry is horribly horribly ageist yeah when you think I think of the designers and the clothes that I enjoy wearing and feel good and I if I was to look at their catwalks or if I was to look at their their magazine advertising there'd be nobody that looks like me wearing those clothes they would all be about you know 19 years old and weigh about four stone yeah they and and there is a fine line between that because we don't want it all to look like no you know people who are in their 60s 70s or 80s or god rest us like iris atfel who was amazing but you know not many of us are going to be wearing you know glasses that size with sort of glass and jewelry that weighs half a body yeah exactly um so i i do think i think there's a real opportunity there actually is all i'm saying yeah yeah i can i can see that when you look back to the kind of height of your fashion life and the busyness and you said that maybe even sacrificing family the the 2000s looks from a distance like great fun to work in fashion, you know, and you, the kind of, the parody side of it and absolutely fabulous and all that stuff.

19:22How close to reality is what I'm describing to the day-to-day life you experienced? Well, for me, a long way off. I think, you know, I said to someone the other day, as an entrepreneur, you are permanently in survival mode. I don't care if you're James Dyson or Jim Ratcliffe there's still an element that you built this I would be amazed if there's not a tiny bit of them that doesn't still feel like they're in survival mode because they don't want to lose what they've built up and I think I was probably guilty of keeping my head right down in the studio. I just, I loved working on the clothes, working on the next collection.

20:10When I wasn't there, I loved being in the store with my customers. I wasn't the sweetie darling out sipping Bolly half the night. And maybe it would have been a better thing to do. But there's different parts of the industry, but that was not a part. Has it changed a lot, the industry, do you think, in terms of the influx of fast fashion? And obviously, spend, I mean, a friend of mine who worked for a business alongside Netta Porter was talking about how in lockdown, the kind of evening wear and glamour side of the business just was decimated. People just weren't buying anything to go out, basically.

20:50I mean, I think and I hope and I hope this continues. I think we're just a lot more conscious of how much stuff we have. I mean, I find that Gen Z's quite interesting because they're the ones that are saying to us, you've destroyed our planet. You know, what are you doing about it? And then they're off buying from Shein instead of, you know, Vinted. Or they'll buy from Vinted, but then they'll also buy from Shein. So I do think people are a lot more conscious. I'm sure you are too. I love it when somebody says, oh my God, that's a gorgeous skirt. And I say it's 12 years old. You know, it kind of validates your purchase in the first place, doesn't it?

21:35You feel like, I bought this to last and it has lasted. And not everything's going to do that. But on what I love now, I've got a 19 year old daughter who is very lucky because all the things that I have set aside for her, she's wearing, they all fit. You know, she's even managed to get the same shoe size as me which is so rare that a mother and daughter got the same shoe size yeah and it's great stuff that's lasted and and I and I feel really I'm really privileged to kind of see it be worn again you know to see that that coat or that suit or that top you know and styled in a different way and I feel like you know that it's great adding new pieces in but actually we don't you know who's got time to be buying every day yeah absolutely I mean and the other thing is that's changed dramatically is the high street is doing an incredible job now really really sensational job you know the quality's never been better it's never been better so you don't have to spend an absolute fortune to look really good where would you send women of a midlife on the high street um it depends on your style personally i absolutely love what cause does i think they're just they do an incredible job m &s are really getting their motion i think there's still you know plenty of room there for them to up it further but i think they've they've really sort of turned that tanker around and that's you know that's something to be celebrated um the other one I love is Uniqlo.

23:13I mean, the quality is off the charts. And now they've hired the designer Claire Wake Keller. She used to be Pringle, Burberry, then Givenchy. She did Meghan's wedding dress. And she's got the most exquisite eye and taste level. And any of her pieces are just beautiful. And actually, Claudia Winkleman came on the podcast at Christmas time, and they do this embroidery service as well now. So you can have your jumpers personalised and various stores do that. And I happen to be in the one, we record this sometimes near King's Cross and there's one at the back of Coal Drops Yard and they have an embroider there.

23:55So you can take a T-shirt and have it personalised. Yeah, which is lovely for a gift, a good quality T-shirt with, you know, personalised. And this is slightly unfair to throw this on you in terms of, you know, It could be one, two or three key things that you would say to women and men, actually. But I know you dress women really fundamentally that they should be aware of in terms of midlife dressing. What would your tips be? First off, you've got to feel good in what you're wearing. It is absolutely pointless. Don't go off and be styled by someone. And, you know, you just work out who you are.

24:36Try and work out who you are. You know, do you love boho? Look, we've never had more images available to, you know, whether it's Instagram or Pinterest or whatever. Try and perhaps find a celebrity or an influencer or someone whose style you absolutely love. And if you think you're similar enough to that person, just see what they're getting right. The other thing is I'm a big fan of a wardrobe selfie, so a mirror selfie. So take a picture of yourself in something probably without your head on and look at that picture, you know, later, the following day or whatever, and just think, how do I like how that piece looks on that person?

25:23so take yourself away from it a bit and what else would i say you know shop in your wardrobe and if if it's not working get rid of it sell it give it away just you know get that sort of noise that clutter out of your wardrobe to give you more space to think what works well for you Trying on, having a trying on session is quite, you're just putting an hour or two aside. I think so. And I think those sort of short, sharp trying on sessions, half an hour or 45 minutes are far better. Don't think this weekend I'm going to reinvent my wardrobe because it won't happen and it will become overwhelming.

26:07Do it in little bite sized pieces and just try and work out, you know, three or four new looks that you absolutely love. and work out what you think you're missing. Is it a new pair of sneakers or, you know, something just to elevate what you're putting together? And on that, if you were to say, advise one thing that people should not skimp on, you know, the thing that they should spend a bit of money on and something that they, I would call it an investment. What would you advise? Tailoring. A really, really good jacket will elevate whatever you're wearing. and you can wear it with, you know, jeans and a T-shirt, and you will look so well-dressed.

26:49And it will last you a long time. So that's absolutely, you know, a great blazer or a great tux jacket will go a long way. One of the things that is always so synonymous with you, Amanda, and I'm not sure whether it's something that is slightly annoying or something you're proud of and you're happy to talk about, is, oh, Amanda, she dressed Princess Diana. And that was always, you know, she dressed as Princess Diana. That relationship that still, you know, is every time you read an article about you, she's mentioned. Is that something that you feel nostalgic and proud about? Or does it kind of, does it get a bit embarrassing and not wanting to talk?

27:29No, no, no. I feel nostalgic and proud about it. You know, it was a great privilege, great fun. And actually I was writing, you know, sort of for my book the other day. I'm thinking, you know, the one thing I regret is, you know, it was early days, but I got sort of a 500 pound check in from Whore and Co, you know, the private bank. And it was signed Charles in sort of that big, thick. Yes, yes. And of course, I was just so sort of hand to mouth with the cash. You needed the cash. Straight into the bank. And now I think, I don't even take a photocopy of it. It would have been the perfect thing for the loo.

28:11Yeah. So send it off to the bank and say, could you send me that piece of paper back, please? When you just write on it, has received or something. I know. I know. I know. But no, it was it was a real privilege and we had a lot of fun. And I did quite a lot of her off duty looks. And and that was lovely, too. Off duty looks were are as iconic as those big kind of, you know, state occasions, aren't they? I think the power of her dressing was the way she could wear jeans and leather jacket when she went to a theme park with her kids. Yeah. And then wearing those incredibly structured formal dresses with tiaras.

28:54And she pulled all of them off. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she, you know, she was a proper fashion icon. And with sort of height to carry it off beautifully. Yeah, she had. And also her background doing ballet as a child, posture and, you know, and that kind of expression style icon, I think, can be banded about too easily, can't it? And as you said, she was a proper style icon and whether it was her hair or just, you know, those iconic photo shoots she did. Do you think is there is there anybody you think who kind of matches up to that now, whether it's in Hollywood or? I think it's a very different era now.

29:39You know, when I think back, you know, when Diana resigned from public life wearing Amanda Wakeley, and I was absolutely, A, I didn't know that was going to happen and that she was going to be wearing it. And B, it was in an era that designers were not being credited, which is hard to imagine now because, you know, it's sort of every influencer, every Hollywood star, you know, and admittedly Kate has now said that she doesn't want to be, you know, she doesn't want to credit the clothes that she's wearing. But back then, that was sort of a groundbreaking time. So it's just very different now, I think.

30:22Yeah, it is. And all the social media and the internet and all the rest of it. Things go viral very quickly now. I can understand why Her Royal Highness, the Princess of Wales, has said that she doesn't want her clothes to be the thing. She wants to have influence and legacy in other areas. Do you think it's a shame for the fashion industry that she decided to? I do a little bit. I think, you know, her work is incredible. and I don't think her clothes detract from her work in any way. And if you think about it, the British fashion industry is worth, you know, whatever it is now, but 26, 28 billion pounds a year to the UK economy.

31:06So actually, she's the most phenomenal ambassador for the British fashion industry. And so I think it's a tiny bit of a shame. I understand it, but I think you can do both. Yeah, and I think people will find out anyway. They'll source the outfits, won't they, whether the palace says it or not.

31:42so you're in a period of your life now it feels like you're following lots of creative juices that are flowing in different areas you're writing for the first time obviously your your podcast as well. It feels like a really happy, successful, balanced period of your life from the outside. It feels like it. I've also started this fun YouTube channel called Friday Night Fashion, which I do with an ex-magazine editor called Joe Alvin. And so once a week, we get together and discuss, you know, trends, or we go shopping together, or and our tastes are polar opposites. And she is, you know, an Aussie with a real opinion and is not afraid to swear.

32:32And it's such fun. And for me to now sort of be really looking at what's on the high street and, you know, all across the industry rather than just focusing on designer, it's quite fun because it's sort of putting my designer eye onto, okay, so who's doing a really good job on the high street, in my opinion? You know, what does look really good value for money? And who's dressing women of a certain age better? What are the cuts like? How are they? Yeah. And the other week I invited on, I'm sure you probably know her, broadcaster, Jo Good, who is all of five foot high because I thought, do you know, it would be quite fun to have someone small talking about actually dressing for a five-foot frame.

33:25It's all very well for me to talk about, you know, I'm nearly five foot ten or whatever I am, you know, and Joe's quite tall too. But actually to have someone, instead of us opining about what you should or shouldn't wear if you're five foot or five foot three. What's the reality if you're five foot, yeah. Exactly. And that went down really well too. So that was great fun. Yeah, I met Jo when she was at Glamour and subsequently as well. She's great. And I think you two, as you say, very opposite kind of ends of the fashion spectrum in some ways. But actually meeting on the high street is a brilliant concept.

34:02So you're open to new ideas and there's a confidence there, do you think, that wasn't there maybe in your 20s and 30s? Completely. I mean, that's the strange thing. You sort of think, you know, I must have looked 100 times better, you know, 30 years ago. But actually, I feel happier in my skin now than I've ever felt. I know so much more. And actually being able to share some of that knowledge without getting up on my soapbox is really, really lovely. You know, whether it's with my niece and nephews or, you know, or doing Friday night fashion or talking on style DNA or writing opinion pieces or giving expert commentary.

34:48It's really that I love. I mean, you must feel the same with, you know, the sport world. Yeah. And being able to, you know, to kind of do, I think it's, we're in such an interesting place, aren't we, in the media, because there's so many different ways to broadcast and actually to get your message or story over, whether that is through podcasting or through YouTube channels. We had Alison Lomax, the CEO of YouTube on the podcast recently. And, you know, that's 20 years old now. And I think she was saying there are so many midlife people starting channels as well on YouTube. And in terms of the physical side of life, you're a fit woman and you've said you love sport.

35:27And Luna, the dog, I'm disappointed, hasn't made an appearance yet. But I know Luna is well walked. What does your fitness regime look like, Amanda? So it depends on where I am, but actually getting outside, being in nature, walking her is really, really important to me. And I love that getting outside first thing in the morning. I mean, if I'm in sort of in the country, I love nothing more than barefoot on the grass. It's proper. Well, I read this and the only person I've heard talk about this was Bear Grylls. Yeah. He apparently likes a barefoot walk on the grass. And there's nothing better than when it's winter and it's frosty.

36:10And you can't do it for long. But honestly, it's like an electricity bolt through your body. It's amazing. Do you like other cold things? Do you like cold water swimming? No, I really hate it.

36:28Don't go out of the bush. Oh, God. And I recently, a couple of months ago, I tore my meniscus skiing as I do. And I've been doing these sort of cryo chamber things. And literally I get in there and I march around to Coldplay. And I got out the other day and the girl said to me, next time you need to try and be a bit quieter in there because, you know, your body needs to get really, really cold. And I said, I'm absolutely breathing. um so back to my fitness I've tried to build up some doing some weights a bit I try and really mix up my exercise so if I'm near if I'm you know near the ocean or a big pool I love to get some fins on and you know really do some laps and one thing I've actually got sort of really much more religious about is I do something called flow, which I was taught by the man who has done all my rehab from two ACLs, two very badly broken ankles, et cetera, et cetera.

37:36Were the ACLs both skiing? Yeah. And the ankles were too. So I've had my fair share, but every time I've hurt myself, I've come back stronger. And I have this theory about injuries or accidents is that sometimes it's the universe just saying slow up you know you need to slow down you need this time and that's actually when when I was recovering from one of my ankles I wrote the outline for my book back in 2017 that then never I never had the time to to it forward but out of that came the podcast so you know these things happen for a reason you you maybe need to try and reset without breaking bones that would be a good it'd be really nice i mean this meniscus has been a pain in the ass but anyhow so i do think as we get older we've got to really stretch that's my point yeah so flow is stretching is it it is but it what is lovely about it is it's deep stretches moving from one to the next to the next so it's very flowing and you don't it's just very dynamic and I love it.

38:49A lot of circular movement, you know, deep into the core, deep into, you know, deep stretching. It sounds like a combination of yoga, Pilates. And ballet. Right. And how long does the routine take? Listen, I can do a quick one before going out skiing and that's sort of 20 minutes, or I can do you know a full hour of it and then the other thing I love to do is when we're in the mountains is to go um skinning so that's you know with your skis on with skins on the bottom and you're basically climbing the mountain um with your skis on and that's that's you're going up you're going the wrong way basically yeah and it's phenomenal exercise and you know it takes you back in you know into sort of the back country and you see nature and you know we've seen wolves out here we see lots of chamois sort of mountain goats and all the rest of it and you know it gives you access to those beautiful beautiful back bowls and you know the glaciers and all of that it sounds like nature both home and away is is integral to your sense of self and your your mental well-being totally totally totally and you know times sort of back in 2021 when I was in that sort of liminal space I guess and actually I had lost my last dog sort of six months prior and you know about sort of a month before the shit hit the fan in May I thought you know what I'm ready for another dog.

40:32So I found Luna and I picked her up. And that night, Charlie died. So I had this tiny little fluffy creature that was just joyful, that needed letting out in the morning, that needed boundaries, that needed a lot of love, a lot of attention. And that was an absolute sanity saver for me because, you know, you'd get out and, you know, you could wake up and not feel fabulous, as you sometimes don't. And within 10 minutes, you know, you're in the joy of nature and a puppy and just that energy of a little creature that loves you. So wherever you go in the world, is Luna alongside, pretty much? No, Luna does now have a European passport.

41:26Lucky thing. I wish I did. But so I drive her out here. But yes, it's very special having her out here. Unless you have dogs and pets, it's hard for people to kind of, they think that it's something almost slightly, you know, it's adjacent to your life. And they realize how much actually that they are very much at the heart of life, aren't they? Yeah, they're part of our family. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Often they're the glue. Yeah, I think when my kids, my kids are 19 and when they both left home last year for university and for work and things, we had a third dog. My husband bought me a standard poodle for my 50th.

42:06And so that dog Maverick is now two. And I think they were coming home to see Maverick initially. That was that was why they were coming back so regularly. So I don't mind. I'll take that Maverick can be that glue, as you say, that kind of brings everybody together. I don't necessarily recommend having three dogs however that's hard work what I I've thought about two and I realized that it you know it's I it sounds so silly but it's more than twice the space of one yeah and it's also everybody is happy to take one dog for a couple of days nobody wants three dogs so yeah you have to think about that as well I'm sure that Luna's happy to be dished out every now and again to other people but yeah think twice thank you so much Amanda for sharing so much of your journey and you know how you're flourishing and thriving in midlife now and best of luck with the book but also continued success for the podcast.

43:00Thank you so much your turn on mine next. Can't wait can't wait. Thank you.

43:11Huge thanks again to Amanda I can't wait to get my hands on her book once it's out And remember to check out her podcast, Style DNA, wherever you normally listen to them, or you can watch all episodes on YouTube. And whilst you're there, explore her Friday night fashion series with Jo Elvin. It's perfect if you're looking for style inspiration. Please leave a rating and review if you've enjoyed this episode of The Midpoint so that more Midpointers can find us. I'll be back next Wednesday. I hope you can join me then.