Holly Tucker MBE

0:04Hi, Gabby here. Welcome back to The Midpoint. Today Holly Tucker is joining me in my podcast den. Holly is a bold and bright small business champion and entrepreneur who is on a mission to show the creativity and colour of the UK's small business community. She also spends a lot of her time inspiring other makers and entrepreneurs, particularly women, in fact. She's credited for creating a nation of mumpreneurs, mothers who could grow their craft businesses whilst juggling motherhood, just like she did. Holly was ahead of her time when she launched Not on the High Street in 2006, connecting small independents with the wider world online.

0:39Not only did it support thousands of businesses, but it generated more than a billion pounds for the UK economy. She truly believes that running a business is the secret to living the good life. So let's find out more about what that looks like at The Midpoint.

0:58Holly, it's so lovely to have you on The Midpoint. I feel like we've been trying to get this together for a while. A while, but I'm so, so happy, so happy to be here. I feel like we need to explain our respective kind of journeys into this podcast I don't mean you're through the last hour of my lives because you very kindly come to the studio at my home because I thought oh I know where you live and it's not that far yeah perfect then you hit on the motorway a calamitous yes closing of the junction yes absolutely completely and I did want to tell everyone did they know where I was going and then I turn up in my studio and all the equipment has died from yesterday and so we're doing this on a very lo-fi iPad this is it's going to be special then I feel transparency is best yeah absolutely and not brush my hair or anything but we're we're here we're here ready you know it's kind of how we've got to women of the midlife that you just have to deal with these things you do yeah this will come up I guess in your story as well when we go back to how not on the high street came about and and your working life but actually one of the things I think you were doing an article about your life and money or something and you went back to being a 14 year old working in a pub and your dad waiting outside for you to finish your shift which I just thought so many parents of teenagers will resonate with that they want their kids to work but there's that you've got to almost work for them to work haven't you because it's so hard for kids these days to get jobs but how important do you think it was that you had that work ethic instilled in you at an early age um I was actually reflecting my son is 20 now and he has a fantastic work ethic and I think it is just one of those things that is a life skill that it doesn't matter what happens to him what happens at university anything the fact that he knows that he has to graft to make it and I think that word graft you know it's we talk about different generations and how they're feeling about work and all of those sorts of things but I certainly grafted and I worked hard and I hustled and I wanted to go far quickly always was in a hurry my nickname Tolly Hurricane so that sort of dad you know want to get a job get a job I don't know how I found it in the in the classified maybe back in the day in the Wokingham times there was a pub needing cleaning and and he was so generous with his Saturday morning first thing to sit in the pub car park and allow me to clean and then come back you know and then he'd take me home how would you get there how would I get there and and and the same that you know with with my son it's just been this thing where if you work hard and you pull yourself into progressing just moving forward actually um and being able to have your own agency and being able to make some decisions at a young age, you know, I always remember that that working basically meant I earned money.

3:59And if I earned money, it meant I could have choices. And if I could have choices, then I could maybe live a life a little bit less ordinary to other people. And so that's always interested me is almost being able to move forward with opportunity or with curiosity. And I've always said that to my son, that, you know, if you keep turning up, keep showing up keep going taking that opportunity say yes to something be generous great things will happen and it will be an interesting life don't worry about qualifications or anything like that and it is going to be a bit dull at times doing certain jobs that's an absolute given and I look back at the myriad of different things I did especially in my gap year and before that when I was at school and would they be my dream jobs no but would I have changed anything absolutely not because all those experiences as you say kind of give you something that you take on to the next role and the next purposeful thing that you do I always remember a boss I had at Sky when I was banging on his door asking to present more live sports saying you know even this job is sometimes like a tightrope walker doesn't kind of turn up for work every day thinking it's the most thrilling job in the world yes yes sometimes you just got to keep doing the shifts and I think there's something in that that maybe our young people sometimes are projected images on social media that everything looks so exciting and it's so high high tech and everything's so kind of fast-paced and that's not the reality or the overnight success which is something i talk a lot about because i think especially through instagram and social media you can believe that what you're seeing sort of happen to the lucky few um and and actually it's like you know every overnight success I know has taken one to two decades of the most pain and the most, the journey less traveled and things that have nearly broken them.

5:52And that's the overnight success that you see. And I think it's about that consistency of showing up. I was thinking about it the other day. And it was, again, the Monday, you know, you have to just keep plodding along, keep showing that energy, working hard, moving those little bits forward. Cumulatively, you know, when you actually do every day, do that little something, it actually amounts to a huge amount. And so I think that that's always what I've sort of had as a spirit, is that I'm okay to put the marigolds on. We laugh because at Holly & Co., my new business, we have in the terms and conditions called the marigold clause, which is basically don't anyone get too big for your boots I don't we all put the marigolds on we're all prepared to get right stuck in um and do the little bits that are required and together that will see monumental shifts and and so far it's proven to be right so going back to your first kind of gig your first professional job outside of school when you went into the world of work did you have a direction or a you know somewhere that you really wanted to go or was it a matter of taking a job that sounded okay I mean I had a direction I wanted I was in a hurry that was why this holly hurricane thing has stuck with me is that I was in a hurry to be out there and doing life I was really excited by that did you know you're an entrepreneur no no because I didn't know what that word what did you know we act like this word was something that we used to use I mean I think Richard Branson was the only entrepreneur back in, you know, back in the day.

7:33And so certainly I didn't know what that meant. When we went to go and get the first loan for Not On The High Street, my bank manager didn't know what an entrepreneur was. So an entrepreneur is a new term. Was I always concocting ideas? And did I have a little notebook that I would put in all those ideas? Yes. And I think I probably was 12 when I started that, but I didn't understand what that actually meant. But I was in a hurry, as in my friends, when I was about 15 years old, I got a work placement in an advertising agency and I would work each summer, so 15, 16, 17. So I did three consecutive summers in the same agency.

8:11And then on the day of my A-level results, my mum drove me to go for an interview for the junior, junior, junior account manager or maybe T-girl. I don't know what it was in those days. and actually I got a job on the day of my A-level results and then she drove me back to go and get my A-level results that afternoon but I'd already gone and got a job and so I was in a sort of a place where I wanted to taste life and I think I've always been like that so I started my I was 17 when I started working. So you get into the world of work but your entrepreneurial spirit whether or not you knew it at the time was clearly there or there was something of a risk taker in you because you could see opportunities or not wanting to live maybe I didn't necessarily want to conform but I wasn't a rebel so I wasn't do you know what I mean I wanted to carve a new path I was really interested in the things that weren't explored or and I mean at the time when I was working in advertising I mean I was just basically being brought up by women in the office who were coming out of the 80s.

9:21I mean, I was having a right old time there. These were in the days where you would have a bottle of wine at lunchtime and people would go back to the office and you smoked in the office. I mean, God, it was a different era. But I was brought up by this group of amazing women in my workplace. And then I went on to Condé Nast and worked in magazines and I worked in a first.com business. And so, yeah, it was tasting all these different things, but I was always within those positions trying to pave my path and do things differently. I was always, if my bosses looked back, they would say, I would come in and redo things or reimagine how something could be done.

10:07And I was pretty young. and then you you you had your the craft fair that you did at chiswick yes and that was the first kind of iteration almost of the idea that this you could get people together who sell things on a different way of looking at retail yeah so you know had my career so to speak then had a few bumps in the road personally um brain tumor divorce got married very very young got divorced very young and actually at that point in time it was definitely one of the times I broke and the speed that I had been traveling at you know if I look back now you know that was a big on the I was on the brakes and things were falling apart at that point and then that was when I went back to the fact that actually if I had not gone into the world of advertising I was going to go and do a degree in art and my portfolio was good enough and so creativity had always been part of me so that's when I just decided to start making and creating things um I wanted to sell it at an event there wasn't an event I thought because I build things differently I go well I'm going to create the event so I can sell my products at it that didn't seem alien to me it just felt very very practical so I built the first Chiswick Christmas fair we had 200 stalls I had one of them and then from that that electricity that I witnessed you know was basically the birthplace after doing a few years of this and was the birthplace of hang on a minute you know the town hall roof is a really archaic way of selling things but actually look at all these amazing small businesses and look at the woman walking through she really loves that I've curated all of these products together and there's this thing called the internet and so it was a perfect storm it was a perfect storm three four starbucks on shizik high road the the all the small businesses being kicked out so we almost could be seen as a virtual high street you know and I can't still quite believe it but amazon and ebay were the only marketplaces in the world so not in the high street was the third etsy came after us and here was myself and my business partner sophie two women who loved to shop through small businesses loved to find something unusual couldn't saw what was happening to high street thought you know one and one equals two we use this thing called the internet and then everyone can just shop from small businesses how brilliant and so you become a tech business as well so so which we didn't you know that was the furthest thing from our mind We were going to just use this thing called the internet, failing to think, oh, yeah, now we're going to have to become tech entrepreneurs.

12:57Whoops a daisy. What a learning curve. What a learning curve that was. Yeah. And there was a point, as a lot of entrepreneurs will kind of resonate with, where you're on the edge and this brilliant idea, things are going well. But actually, if we don't get some money in and we don't get some investment, this might all just fall like a house of cards. yeah how how does the mindset of somebody like you who can take those risks and have that vision do you think change or is is different to somebody who perhaps at that point panics and goes okay that was nice but now I'm going to go back to the steady job what what is what is it in you that believes that this thing I got it I got a I think at the time you know that that notion of doing something differently for I was now an adult it was our company and we were doing something different wow okay so hang on a minute this is everything I had dreamt about I actually had because I still remained Holly I was with my partner of now 23 years and I'd had my son and he was three months old when we started Not On High Street so I wouldn't necessarily advise that but there is never a good time but at that point you know then you have the entrepreneurial journey and I'm on it with my new business, Holly & Co.

14:10right now. I wish it was different. But I look back now, 20 years later, and I think, yes, you were a woman in a tech world. You were an entrepreneur. We know the statistics. Only two pence of every pound goes to female entrepreneurs in this country from venture capital. And there we were trying to tell people that we weren't just women who had a hobby. and remember you know um this is not when we used to call ourselves entrepreneurs this isn't this was in 2006 we'd just come out the dialogue modem right so this is a different period of time and so there I was trying to convince men that we are not two blonde women with a craft business and we're going to put it on the internet right or we would hear that my wife does all the shopping all this sort of thing and I didn't even have the lingo there to say you know this is not this site isn't for you so that's great or any or the confidence and you know I was 27 28 years old and so yes we had the tried and tested entrepreneurial journey which is that basically you're a thousand miles an hour you're running out of money at all points in time and horribly the moments where things start to work you're with the least money or the most jeopardy And then where it really matters is then what you do just at that point in time.

15:33And we didn't give up. It was something I think is a quality as a woman I still hold today, which is actually my business was a child to me. You know, it was everything to me. My son was born, but this was my second child. I only had one child. I was helping a huge amount of people. It was more than just a business. It was changing, changing people's lives. So how could I give up on that? Because I couldn't make it work. That's an excuse. I have to make it work. And so when you have that on your shoulders, I think, you know, it's, it's, it really drives you. and the rest of their sales history in terms of the success of them on the high street but your passion for small businesses and your passion for women in business is clearly something that runs through all of your business ideas and right up to Holly and Co yeah you know I was I was looking I'm going to turn 48 this week so it's 20 years I've been doing this my husband's like seriously how can you be so and I'm like this is who I am and this is what I want to do if I get to craft a life where my entire existence helps people helps small businesses so the underdogs think David and Goliath you know that I can see the talent in someone but they just need to have maybe some advice or help or a community or camaraderie or money or all those sorts of things then let me be that person to help I know what I know I'm the only woman to build two marketplaces I have a lot of experience and so I don't really have the choice now in terms of my path this is my path and I'd like it to be etched in some way on my gravestone you know that's what I will contribute and along the way it's going to seeing as all my businesses are about 97 % women be it the small businesses that sell on the platform or the customers or my team there is so much work to be done for us women um again let that be my legacy then let me try and help as many women as I can with the experience and as I said I'm a very different person as I was 28 to 48 and I will be at 68 which I'll still be doing the same thing at 68 and that's there's quite a lot of comfort in that when you find your place on in the world even you just saying that that makes me smile because actually you are in that position in your life where you can say that I think a 28 year old would feel slightly imposterous they might say it but not quite believe it and I can tell you absolutely with all the experience you have totally have yeah maybe at 28 you don't have the battle scars you don't have the wisdom you you don't have you know I'm lucky enough to now look back and have the stories and have the interactions that I know that it has changed people's lives at the start you just hope it will after 20 years and you've kept in contact and the community is your family you can hear what's happened you've you've seen um you know you've seen our entire lives actually of the people that I'm close with so it is a it's a very very humble spot to be in And, you know, talking to you, this moment, turning 48, I think, OK, it's all led to this point.

19:05I hope you're enjoying this episode of The Midpoint. If you are, it would be amazing if you could give us a review and subscribe. It really helps. I'll be back in a moment.

19:18So what does Holly & Co do differently to what you did at Not On The High Street? Well, on the face of it, this is the thing, you know, some people say, don't do the same thing again, because, you know, people will judge you on the last. I look back now and I feel that I had some unfinished business in this area. There's lots of things when you're 28 and start something and then you're really 40. I was 47 when I started Wally & Co. I was like, okay, there are some changes I want to make. You know, I'm very, very, so it's a marketplace still. but you could liken it to the liberty of small business it is highly curated and I again I before you were in the tech arms race and maybe it was all about bringing everybody onto a platform now I'm like no it's not about everyone it's about a group of what I would call the best of small businesses in the Britain I champion all small businesses but I can't serve everybody so I'm more confident in how I'm articulating what we're doing we're going to once we build the foundations of the marketplace I hope this year I'm going to have some really interesting things to launch which is that this is just the beginning so this time I'm using my platform and my retail emporium not just to sell products to incredible people and help small businesses So I want to try and I think business has the power to change society.

20:48And I think retail does, actually. And I think there's so long that we've been saying that, you know, women do the shopping, you know, women do the shopping, hide your shoebox, you know, she's been at it again, you know, those sorts of things. what about if we reframed our thinking and thought women build villages around families they the way that they do that is by remembering things we're incredibly thoughtful and through that they buy gifts and things for their home and it's a love language what if we actually looked at what we do within our when we vote with our money you know edwina dunn who created the tesco club card and that sort of technology says the female pound goes round so i actually think there's something really interesting in unpacking actually retail and women if I have 97 % of female customers shopping with 97 % female small businesses that's a very powerful pound going around and so I think that retail really needs a spark it needs some feminine energy and it needs to you know go back to its roots and so I'm really excited that once the heavy lifting of building a new marketplace which is not so easy um is done that will be the platform to really try and shape society and in terms of that's an online platform as you just described there in terms of the the bricks and mortar of the high street and you live in an area that has got a thriving high street um um but they're rare aren't they those high streets and i'm sure as somebody who is immersed in retail you also want to see those places plundering because of quality of life and community Absolutely.

22:26I mean, it's so important. Every single year we have something, we're in year eight, I think, of something called Color Friday. It's a campaign. So again, I'm looking at my business, not just as selling items between people, it's actually, we campaign. So every March and around International Women's Day, we have Female Founder Month. when it comes to Black Friday. On the same day, we have Colour Friday, where we ask people to vote with their money for the kind of world that they want to live in. Now, if you want to live in, and I've just driven through your beautiful town, if you want to live in a town where you have independence and you want to have your child come off a bus from school and be able to go and sit in a coffee shop or maybe, you know, go and know your butchers or have that interaction, then best that we support it.

23:14Because if we're asleep at the wheel, all independent high streets will die and and that is something that should be on us to do and so i think again the business's power can be not just getting you to buy more but believing in something and getting a community of people to come along with you and so that's what we try and do we try and campaign for um our independent high streets and and with with governments and councils is that something i mean to a point you know again i'm 48 now i mean 10 years ago i might have been excited by that you know it's it's just unfortunately i'm in a hurry i know that every day counts so i cannot wait i cannot wait for years and years different governments you know we have a different pm every two seconds i cannot wait for everybody but what we know is that you and i believe in an independent high street and there's many women like us and there's many families who care about it and there's many families that care about supporting small so i sort of try and limit my sort of reliance on anyone else it kind of goes back to what you said earlier on about the small steps about your even your own career in terms of just keeping moving forwards and actually keeping the dialogue open with people just reminding people it might cost you a pound extra on this high street but think that the pound that you're spending extra what it actually brings the value of your family's life absolutely it's huge i'm obsessed with you know when i see a unit closing on our high street i've got ears to the ground people around telling you what's coming and they tell me fine that's okay yeah because because yeah closes i need to know something's coming yeah i don't i don't want these places shutting absolutely or unfortunately turned into facts or vaping shops or whatever you know i think all of our i mean in another life i'd be a townscape planner yeah i mean i love the whole thing of how you thank goodness you're asking you You know, because we need different varieties in town.

25:08We need different things to do. We need all these things, but we don't have town cheerleaders. Everything is separated out. The council doesn't have the money or some of them don't care enough. So it's left to the individuals. And so I think that that is the point, is we must recognise, and certainly as women, we know 90s, I think it's 90 % of the, 80 % of the disposable income in any household is spent by women. That is a huge sum of money. Now, for your household, my household, now collect all the women's money. Think about what that actually signifies. So we have the power to keep an independent high street alive.

25:47We have the power to support female founders. We have the power to support B Corps or businesses that give to society or charity. It's quite powerful, but we're led to slightly believe that we're not powerful. We're inconsequential in the bigger scheme. And we're not. we can actually vote with our money and make the change so the energy and the passion is clearly as as vibrant as it has ever been but there's a reality and almost like a kind of you're quite sanguine about the fact that actually i'm not going to go down that route anymore that doesn't work i've you i'm sure you've been courted by politicians many times over the years i just you know i i realize that in my day the power i have is with the community and my team and myself to make changes and that every time I've relied on others, we have never gone as fast as I've wanted.

26:40I've always dreamt that something would happen and it just doesn't happen. And I counted up on my 40th birthday because I like efficiency and I believe that the time that we have is so precious. It's the asset that we can sweat and we can make the changes like you're saying that we can do. And on my 40th birthday, I wanted to work out how many days left I had on the planet and so I worked out I had you know there's 29 ,000 days roughly I just quickly did it before breakfast just to have that merry thought when I went downstairs and I realized I had 14 ,000 days left on the planet and I found that so motivating and now I've worked it out and I have 11 ,500 days.

27:21When's your end game? It's just a rough you know I'm obviously not an expert biology yeah 80 no it's like 80 ish I think it's roughly right okay so you know so there could be a few more years in there but roughly until 80 you could probably be really active exactly that's what I'm thinking at 80 I want to retire I respect myself and just sit there and so I realized 11 and a half thousand days crikey okay best I get on with things you know every single day I can literally change the course and direction of what we're doing. And I think that is what I try and instill to other women, other entrepreneurs, other founders, that basically we have all the power that we need.

28:05We just have to have the confidence.

28:23you mentioned a health issue that you had in your in your 20s in a brain tumor how much do you think that refocused you in terms of your mortality or were you too young I was too young I think I was too young I think that it helped me pivot away from you know my relationship it helped me be with the man who I am with today and we got married during lockdown and we have our amazing son and we have a beautiful marriage I don't think I looked at mortality I think I look at mortality now every single day without that health scare because I actually use it as a driving force I really do think about the gravestone I really do think about the legacy I do think I laugh that maybe when I come in when I'm when I when I get into the coffin I won't get into obviously someone will maybe put me in there but I'm going to go up to it and say I think there's a great business in death you know I think someone should do not in the funeral home or something or something like that but um you know that that's I use I use that end to always be there so that things that feel unsurmountable and you know I'm climbing Everest right now with Holly and Co things are not as rosy certainly when it comes to money raising and everything like that the the same statistics I had 20 years ago I have today and so when I'm dealing with these same issues that this allows me to have the mindset that I can overcome them that this is my destiny it is my path it's going to be the end as much as it is today and so then I know well then somehow I'm going to work it out and in terms of what that's done to make you look at the way you live your life and health and well-being have you become in the last decade or so much more focused on that than you ever were I think so I think I think that many people do and it was locked down for me that was the moment that I'd never I don't know about you so I'd never stopped so I was 17 when I started work and I'd never stopped one second since then so when we went home I didn't know what the hell was happening because I noticed the season.

30:34I noticed, you know, life and things like that. And I started walking and I'd never really walked before or I'd not walked the dogs before and I'd not all these things. And it was a real moment. And from that moment, so now five years, I am by far the healthiest. I am by far the more grounded. I'm healthier in my mind and my body. And that's now become something that I'm less scared of it's quite easy when you're so busy and and fast to just say there isn't enough time for it whereas now it is an energy pack for me and I've now realized that I can do it and I'm I'm confident in it so confident in it I mean I I can run for instance this is a big achievement for Holly to be able to run but those are the things that have changed in the last five years and is that a journey your husband is on with you in terms of yeah yeah absolutely I mean he's 17 years my senior actually so and he is you know everyone looks great yeah he's yeah I know that's yes I know he's got the Irish blood and all this sort of stuff so yeah everyone says we're the same age and I'm like I'll point out that we're not um but he's very very fit and healthy and has that lifestyle as well so um it's a really really good combination when my son went to university and we were empty nesting which I know you appreciate that feeling we actually changed the playroom this room that we used to have everyone in into a gym because I knew that we were going to need to fill our lives spaces and actually that was the best thing we ever did because now we work out we work out together we work out every day and actually it's been a fantastic thing for our relationship and our health as well and and in terms of the empty nest how else have you filled that as a couple or have you just worked even harder you've got I was thinking this I was thinking is she gonna I think that um there is a reality and I think that's really important that people maybe think oh you know second time round it's easy you know I'm working six in the morning to 11 at night many many many many days and and and that's what it takes by the way that's not you know I'm good at what I do and it takes this and it takes a whole team to do that to even get to the point that we're in and we're in jeopardy as well so there is no sort of making this better but I love what I do I live a 360 life as in I don't have work life I have a full one life where things life and play and everything work all blend into one and I think that that has been fantastic with the same period of time my son leaves because then actually uh there's been more time to be able to give that and that has been fantastic as well because i think when i speak to women and we look at small businesses and growing them i've seen businesses get people through cancer through grief through empty nesting through sickness through happiness you know i do i'm not just obsessed about business i think business and creating your own dream and realizing it is a key to happiness it's a very practical key to women working as well that you can go and do the pick school but it's the purposefulness isn't it yeah absolutely yeah yeah and if you were a very you know or are a devoted parent and you you know you're really invested in your child's life there is a sense that a bit of your purpose has shifted you'll always be there you'll always have them calling you up and asking you advice and things but i think it's really important to recognize how big that purpose is and how important that is for your mental and physical well-being absolutely and the empty nesting it is real you know my my husband who was um the primary carer so to speak he was the one that did the school run and things like that um and it happens to anyone all of us but certainly that primary carer that routine of doing school drop-offs having all the activity all the noise i mean that's organizational organization but just the noise in the house it goes quiet and that was that felt sad so it's important to maybe try and think about it pre as well we built the gym we now work out does he use the gym when he comes back from university yeah exactly it's still a playroom um just yeah different we have you know now our conversation is who runs the fastest kilometer but it's it the whole point is that you can you can fill it but it is a real thing but it's an amazing thing as well I mean of course and seeing your children go off and flourish and enjoy their life is the aim isn't it that is the aim we have to remember that's the aim and then it's time for you to reclaim you and that's maybe what I've been able to do these two years in now is be able to build Holly and Co be able to not necessarily feel that whole guilt you know there's no mum or mother's guilt now going on whereas I missed his first steps so it's really different now and it feels good and and I think that's okay to say and actually I think it's uh 50 or 60 percent of all our small businesses on Holly and Co are over 40 years old so actually I do believe that there's this period of time this midlife where we just blossom and we should want to blossom we should think that this is the new beginning and things like empty nesting is that that crossroads that these things can happen yeah I think it's I'm gonna say the guilt whether or not you think you've got it sorted and you you've told yourself that it's fine this is what you know it takes a village to bring a child up and yeah yeah all these great people are involved in helping it's it does kind of niggle away somewhere doesn't it and actually when you can say like I was doing something in London late last night and I said to my husband I was recording early this morning I'm going to stay overnight in London which is only about an hour away but it just meant I had two hours more sleep because yes you know so much of juggle is sleep deprivation yes and actually looking after yourself I'm doing that job the next job better because you've had more sleep I don't feel guilty about that you know and I would never have done that when the kids were at home because I would want to be up in the morning with them and doing all of that so yeah it's just those little things I recognize these beats in my life and it's good to recognize them I think because it's it's the treat no it's the little bit it's the little reward you're like crikey I've got two more hours sleep I just didn't have to do the school run hallelujah these small things that you you know for 20 years but as you say it doesn't mean that you know tomorrow night or the night after there'll be a moment where the house is too quiet you know even even down to things like washing machines you know going on all the time and you know yes the amount of food the fridge just just having a few items in it you know oh yeah or shopping each day because there's no real need to have a full fridge you know whereas when my son comes home there is a need for a full fridge you know it's it's eating hourly but you must be incredibly proud of you mentioned his work ethic at the beginning there yes he has clearly watched observed and learned so much from you and as a powerful woman as well I think for a young man to go up into the world yeah seeing that it's been an amazing thing I remember when he was five he said to my mother that he'd like to start a business and and she said well that's great Harriet you know wonderful and he said but I can't she said why well I'm not a woman now that was you know at five and now at 20 he is so respectful and so aware it's what he's been brought up on as he ate his breakfast this was in the air so So entrepreneurism, and I always say that to anyone starting a business, do not fear working and bringing your family in.

38:24It's actually everything they're not going to learn at school. It's incredibly important in this day and age with jobs changing because of technology, that that thing that we talked about right at the beginning, that grafting, that spirit is given to your child. And so it feels really good to witness that, you know, I always thought I was going to mess him up. Right. Because, of course, you know, if you work that hard as a woman, you're juggling, you're the main care, you know, all those sorts of things. You definitely think something's going to give. And I thought it was going to be him. And it's really testament, I think, to how guilt can be such a wasted emotion.

39:01If you love your child, you give them quality time, you get them involved in what you're doing. You're always honest and open, have those deep connections with them. then I think it's actually tonic for them to be around a working woman who's striving and living in purpose and your husband before he kind of took over the primary care he was in the police wasn't he yeah does he have kind of uh you know official cheerleader role with you in terms of knowing how to just keep you going is he well does he know where the well he's we're a bit like a half glass full half glass empty type of couple and I think that that is good because if I was with potentially if we have the same sort of attitude I might be like a rocket at all points in time so this is a good thing he's a reality checker he's a reality checker and he is the best he does everything for for me that I can't do which is give me a beauty you know a home love he's an amazing chef he's brought up our son cared for him he's the most amazing dad he's allowed me to do what I've needed to do knowing that Harry was good and he was in the best care and and and and actually that my work at some point I was going to be you know fed and and cuddled and and and you know all those sorts of things and so we have a great a partnership actually in that very different to his old world but that's what he wanted and so and now we're in that point where he's gone Harry and we're looking at the next 20 years.

40:35Does he know you don't plan to slow down till you're 18 and the 17 year age gap it's an interesting time because you i don't know about you but you come back and you have to reconnect don't you after the children and and actually we realize our ages are different and i'm doing it again and he's definitely not wanting to do it all again um and so we're going to find what our compromises are for the next 20 years um and so we're quite excited and it's going to mean that i'm going to have to slow down the parts but that's good because otherwise I just run away. I just, I'm a thousand miles an hour.

41:11You're only 48 this week. So have you started to have any perimenopausal symptoms at all? Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, I'm fully in. I would say that I'm, you know, that started about, during lockdown, I would say, was sort of when I, maybe because I was slowing down, I was recognising it more. You were listening to your body. I was able to listen on that dog walk can actually think hang on a minute what's going on and then um and then started to see a hormone doctor which I advocate so much to all my girlfriends um just even if you don't know where you're at to register get a baseline then have it monitored so that you can just if you decide to do HRT that you can prop yourself up during that um that that period of time which is certainly what I'm doing.

42:02And it had changed my life. You know, I'm not on all HRT, but where I need it, I'm taking HRT and it has just changed my life completely. So, and it's helped me sleep and I need to sleep. And it's been able to allow me to just not fall into the moods that I was falling into or the fatigue that I was experiencing, so many things. And along those lines, it's actually made me just be more mindful of my body so from having breast scans to knowing my vitamin d levels were low to my i'm just more aware that you know there are so many symptoms and thankfully most women don't experience all symptoms but some of them are so insidious and kind of low level that you just don't necessarily associate with menopause and menopause completely i feel that But it's been amazing to really maybe listen to my body because now I know the charts show me that literally my hormones are changing.

43:03And then I've gone and topped those up with other blood tests and different tests. So I monitor those at the same time. So then now I'm really conscious about that and I'm conscious about what I need to take. So I take my vitamins at night. I take my things in the morning and all of those sorts of things. And that's quietened the noise of hypochondria and just thinking that something's wrong. Something will go wrong. I deserve something to go wrong. I'm so fast and I'm not looking after myself. Whereas actually, if I go, no, tick, tick, tick, I've ticked these things off. If something happens, that's going to be unlucky.

43:38But actually, get on with your day now. And I think that we can, as we age, the guilt could easily, the parental guilt, could literally fall into another fear, which is getting older and we just start that cycle again so i think it is but yeah symptoms my my skin hurts um which i never thought was a symptom but when you go to dr google um it is a symptom just just my arm was it excessive dryness or just like no just just nerves just absolute nerves and so is that does is that the kind of thing that would lead to some similar kind of thing to restless legs is that yeah i think it is exactly that and then it would be something else for someone else you know so so I think it's that it feels good and again potentially when you're at that stage of life where the empty net maybe maybe mother nature did it this way you know so the children fly and then everything else lies and then you can now look after yourself going through it because before you had the school run yeah and it is you know we have obviously women and men on the podcast of varying ages who started their families at different ages and often you know if you speak to somebody who's had their children a bit later into their early 40s you know obviously those symptoms can be coming when the child is just going to school and so you know most obviously the average age for starting a family I think is still about 31 32 so it would come inside yes yeah yeah but there will be women listening to this who have started their families later and don't have that time and so it's really important for those women I think a couple of the doctors who've been on the podcast have said you know a lot of women just don't think kids perimenopause because they only gave birth six years ago you know so they don't think of themselves yeah and so yes i can see that yeah so i think it's as we change the way we start families and we change you know societies just you know there's so many different ways of having a family so i think it's the conversation being out there is important for everybody to recognize because you know you might have a six-year-old and a four-year-old at school and not think for one second yeah that the way you're feeling has anything yeah i think it's just the most it's the most fantastic thing that has happened through yourself and others raising this awareness around menopause you know I now have open conversations with my son and with my husband never was that in my husband's era was it you know my my mum never spoke about menopause ever his mum certainly didn't and then my son who you know will understand what goes on in terms of young women but to be able for me to explain to him what's happening wow that's a hot generations of young folk will be brought up to understand that menopause is a real real thing um and it's it's it's fantastic and and before potentially as my age it was like an excuse or it was something and for those women also to disappear out of the workplace sometimes because they couldn't cope with those symptoms they're experiencing and you know we both know that is a drop-off area isn't it absolutely it's a drop-off and they've got all that experience and potentially that's heartbreaking that time that's coming it's heartbreaking this is where we need women in the workforce this age this wisdom this experience we we've got incredible women that should be leading the world leading organizations or leading departments or or just leading in their lives and actually then you see this drop-off or potentially in business, you see a drop off, which is confidence, which is starting a business.

47:07And then it gets to that bit where you could take it to the next level. And they don't. And I think we have to realise that the world is so much better with us in it in as powerful positions as we can get ourselves into. Because what we then do to those coming up or coming through or to an organisation with our feminine powers in business and the way we look at things, which is different to the way a man looks at things is just so important and certainly I think you know let's just look at the world today I think it might be a better place. Yeah I think also the thing that is perhaps often not recognized as well is the menopause and that period of life can give you such a freedom because stuff that you might have been anxious about as a 30 year old or in your late 20s just you just don't care anymore so you you've actually got more time to devote to those businesses and those people you work with and actually you're probably a better colleague because yes yes your energy can be focused you don't sweat the small stuff you let things just you know you just let things go so many things that you you it's why doing holly and co now again um second time around i do not worry about the the little bits and i help my team who have not done it before understand this is not something that we should worry about it feels bad right now but just don't worry about it we're going to move on let's get let's let's keep our eye on the moon we've got the anchor there you know let's let's keep going and i think that that's the the the power of a woman you know when she she's coming into this age it's it's just a thing of beauty well that was a thing of beauty that chat with you i really love that you're so inspiring what a moment to be sitting with you even though whatever motorway and everything and power decided to but to sit with you honestly is being such an honor i'm sure that you will inspire so many people the young women who listen to this podcast who might need that sense of belief and purpose and power and and those who are perhaps shifting their ideas in midlife as well a lot of my friends i see who've had big careers have got ideas and they don't know whether it's time to do it and i'm always kind of yeah do it now do it now you're the youngest you will ever be right in this point in time.

49:19Thank you. That's wisdom, I think. Thank you so much. Thank you.

49:29Well, spending time with Holly is an absolute elixir. What an incredible woman. And if you want to learn more from her, grab a copy of her book, Do What You Love, Love What You Do, or follow her on Instagram at Holly Tucker. What a great thing to live your life by doing what you love. there's also a big back catalogue of holly's podcast conversations of inspiration which you might like to dip into too hit follow or subscribe if you're new to the midpoint and i will be back next wednesday i hope you can join me then