Looking Back At The Logan Family

0:07Hello and welcome to The Midpoint. This episode is all about family. Well, one particular family. my family, the Logans, my husband Kenny and our 20-year-old twins Lois and Ruben. And I've actually really loved having them on The Midpoint. They were very enthusiastic. Kenny first came on to talk about his cancer and then Ruben and Lois asked why they hadn't been on. And we thought actually it was a very good idea to talk about midlife parenting of teenagers. And it seems the listeners to The Midpoint have really loved it too, especially my mum. And these conversations are some of the most personal I've shared on the podcast.

0:43The funny ones, the tender ones, the ones where we've had to be really honest about life's challenges. And you hear some of our most honest, funny and occasionally awkward conversations as we've tackled everything from illness, intimacy, dyslexia and Ruben and Lois leaving home to embarrassing Christmas costumes and much more. I wanted to start with Kenny who joined me for one of the most important episodes I think I've ever done on The Midpoint. talking about probably the hardest thing he's been through and that we've been through as a family. He joined me on the midpoint to mark the anniversary of his prostectomy.

1:16It was a big moment for us as a couple and one we knew we needed to speak about openly. And I'm so proud of Kenny for not shying away from speaking about the reality of what this has meant for him as a man and for us as a couple. But there's something intrinsically linked to masculinity and what it means to be a man with regard to the prostate because of the ramifications of removing a prostate, which can cause problems with erectile function. And I think that is why people were very surprised about you talking about it. And since the podcast dropped, of course, you do get people kind of obviously come up and they ask you how you are.

1:54Your immediate reaction is to always talk about erectile function. Not quite. Because a lot of times you're there with my mates and they're going, all right, how's it all down there? I was like, oh, it's fine now. But that is, I think, every conversation I've had with a man, when they talk about three ways you can do the brachytherapy or the radiotherapy, and when they get down to taking it out, it goes, what's your sex life like? That's the first thing they ask. Does it come back? How quick does it come back? You know, that is, because a man, you know, a man is used to waking up in the morning with some, sometimes, you know, being a bit aroused, and that doesn't happen anymore.

2:34So that doesn't happen anymore when you get older anyway. But I suppose men, you know, they feel quite masculine about knowing that they can get an erection. So if that doesn't happen, I think they can feel a bit of confidence. While you were building back, let's say, on that front. Back to the big time. It did, I think, affect your sense of identity, I would say, especially kind of in the autumn and in wintertime. It did affect your sense of who you were and maybe it was a whole midlife thing going on at the same time but you didn't seem yourself for quite a few months. Yeah I think you definitely you know I think the weird thing about what I had and what other people had because there's no symptoms and I'm a year on now I feel exactly the same now as I did before I went in for the operation so it's weird going for an operation getting something taken out of you that could kill you and have no it's not like you've had a sore knee and it's bothered you for 10 years but you did feel different in the time post operation so if you're saying that you feel the same today as you did the day before you went to the operation then that's progress because you weren't jolly Kenny for the whole of that period although you were positive you did have doubts you have your minutes you have your doubts and you maybe don't share all your doubts because sometimes keep these things yourself and you don't feel vulnerable and I know you and I speak a lot about stuff and we do speak a lot and sometimes I'd say to you look I just need time I just need some space or whatever else I need because I was scared of you are moving into part of your life where it's a bit different like when you get to 50 things start to happen right prostate you're getting checks you're getting blood checks I went for the chrystal the other day I'm going to go for a bowel check.

4:19You went for what the other day? Cholesterol check. Oh cholesterol Jesus say that I mean that's almost better than your mother say cholesterol again? Cholesterol. You didn't say that, you said cholesterol. Cholesterol. Cholesterol is too many deep fried mass bars. I've not had a deep fried mass bar. Pizza. So, man at 50, you feel good, you're feeling really positive, I'm 50, I feel great, but then all these things pop in, aches and pains and you're not as strong as you were before, you know, all these little things. You've got an alpha son. You've got an alpha son who's bigger than you when he was 12.

4:51So, going forward, I definitely look at my health differently. I want to go into the local GP and get my test done. I think about it more. Where a year ago, I didn't think about it at all. So I definitely think about my health more. I'm thinking, you know, when you're eating and is that good for you? Is that bad for you? I'm not being too anal on that, but I mean, definitely. You've cut down a bit of what you eat, I think. Yeah, I definitely don't eat as much because I know that old dad bod's coming along. That's what Ruben says to me. Dad, you've got a dad bod. I was like, how dare you say that to me?

5:22has mortified. Dad boys, dad boys, dad bods. Do you want to speak properly? Dad bods were quite trendy a few years ago. Well, they're not trendy now. Now, what I really love about that chat is how honest Kenny was prepared to be. For so many men, the first question is about sex. And yet it's often the last thing that people really want to talk about openly. But these conversations matter because they chip away at the stigma. Prostate cancer is so common and yet so many men don't seek help early enough. and if Kenny sharing his experience helps one person feel less alone or prompts them to get checked then it makes it all worthwhile and we heard from so many people after that episode telling us that they had done just that and many of them had found something and hearing Kenny talk so openly about masculinity health and vulnerability got me thinking about how these themes run through different stages of life and sometimes those challenges aren't physical at all but emotional A while back, my son Ruben, who was 17 at the time, sat down with me to talk about his experience of anxiety and how he learned to manage it.

6:26And I was really proud of the way he approached that conversation and how honest he was prepared to be. Speaking of down and mental health issues, let's talk a little bit about that because you, about a year and a half ago, you said to me, told me that you were feeling anxious and you had anxiety and you wanted a bit of help with that. let's talk a little bit about that because i'm recognizing that you had anxiety i think comes from actually reading a lot about it and understanding you know what you're supposed to feel like and how you feel how did you know it was something more than just a bad mood that day because um my girlfriend at the time had noticed it quite a lot and then she was like you may as well you know go and see someone there's no harm in it you know so i thought i'd just see what you were to say and think what did anxiety feel like i would just i i can't describe it perfectly but I'd say my chest was like quite tight for no reason or no apparent reason.

7:19And I just was like, and I just felt a bit like worried about things that I shouldn't be. And it would build up in my head. And I sort of realized that wasn't normal when it was happening a fair bit, you know, not all the time, but I mean, it wasn't a bad case, but I just thought I may as well get that, you know, have a look at that. Maybe talk to someone about it. There's no point, you know, not talking to someone about it. And now that you generally don't feel, I know your heart. I'm sorry. I wasn't aware there's top to go out there. No, I'm not. now that you don't feel like that you know if you feel that coming on now what are the things that you do to help yourself i just think go for a run maybe go in the gym you know gym helps me a lot with it and at the time i think i just was an emotion i think it was more could have been hormones having a bit of effect to it as well you know and i just feel like at the time i was struggling with things because i just i don't can't tell you what helps with it i just think staying positive is something quite easy to do if you just it's a mindset switch not necessarily a long change i think you've just got to look at the world in a different outlook you know and and just but you've done that quite successfully i think a lot of people listening is that when i failed my theory test for the second time um half past now by the way um but when i failed after five attempts four one of my feathers sleeps so technically three but i remember saying mum was fuming you were no come on she was not happy she was like it cost 60 quid every go which is no no which is fair enough okay i'll give her that but i just said at least i'm happy do you know i mean you know what i mean at least i'm at least i'm happy myself i'm in a great mood and happy what would you want more than your child to be happy so it was hard for to come back from that one yeah it was hard to come back from that i was no the reason i was so annoyed on that second the reason i was so annoyed on that second one was because i knew you hadn't revised for it and i thought there's no point just keep entering these theory tests if you're not actually going to do the revision for it yeah and then the third one fell asleep so yeah um and by the way you did fail a fourth one and then you did it five times um yes but going back to clarifying going back to if you do me a chore later i might take that out the podcast um going back to how you deal with that because i think this is really important because communication is key and i think you've been really you've always been somebody that has a very um much worn his heart on his sleeve and if you don't feel great you talk about it right yeah which is a really brilliant attribute to be able to do that and i think that helps you and a lot of teenage boys don't they're not quite sure how to have those those conversations so what would you say to them if they were you know 13 14 and feeling like they should talk i think it's i think what you gotta appreciate that maybe you don't realize is that you know you were very often since i was born since i could talk since i remember thing we were always we'd always talk about things nothing we've ever really kept in whereas that's not the same in all families it's different there's different dynamics and it might be harder to talk about things so but if you can't talk to your family i suggest going to someone talks about you know it's your school you know and anyway there's always a way that you can talk to someone whether it's online there's help help places but i just feel like if you're feeling down it's consistent you're worried about it just talk to someone there's no harm in it you're not gonna get told off for it you know i find that really moving to listen back to because so many young men bottle up their feelings unsure how to speak about them and what ruben shows is that opening up whether to family, a friend or a professional can make all the difference.

10:31And as his mum, I'm grateful he's always been willing to talk. It reminds me that mental health isn't just a conversation for one generation. It's something we all need to keep normalising at every age. Of course, not all our conversations are so serious and we definitely go in for some gentle and sometimes not so gentle teasing. My other twin, Lois, Ruben's sister, of course, joined Kenny and me for a festive special And as usual, it descended into embarrassment, for me mainly. And laughter pretty quickly after that. But Christmas Eve obviously didn't used to, you weren't allowed to stay up late.

11:06You had to go to bed so that we could sort out all the presents. And that was when we then got into this habit of doing the adults' presents the night before. There might be some Santa listeners out there, so don't ruin it. Well, sometimes... I don't know if they're at the midpoint. Hopefully they're not at the midpoint. You never know. We'll put a warning. Well, yeah, warning. but if you are at the midpoint and you still believe in Santa, you might have to take a look at yourself. So we used to have you guys in bed and then we'd all have a nice time with the adults downstairs and then you said when you no longer bought into certain things about Christmas, you said, can we stay up and watch you open your presents?

11:38The first time we did that, I felt so cool. Even though we didn't open our presents, I just felt like... You weren't there though the year... Were you there? No, you still... She's been there every year, Gabs. No, she wasn't actually physically in the room the year that I dressed up for Christmas Eve. No. Oh, my God. But I do remember seeing pictures of it. Can I just tell you, so my mum, my mum was there, just my mum. And my dad as well. And your dad, Gabby comes down in the shortest Santa Claus outfit. Well, it was in Ann Summers' outfit. And you know how awkward it is when she's walking towards you trying to stretch it down, right?

12:11And she sits down in my mum's face. Well, that's lovely. Well, that's interesting outfit you've got on, Gabby. I'm going, Gavs, you need to... I can see your pants. No, you couldn't. You could. It was so revealing. It was so revealing. It wasn't. It was awkward. It wasn't. I'll tell you what was awkward, buying it from Ann Summers in Westfield. But why did you buy it? I just wanted a Mrs. Claus outfit. You've gone to Claire's accessories or something. I quite fancied Mrs. Claus on stage. I was thinking, ho, ho, ho. That was put in my dressing up box, that dress. Oh, don't see that. I can't see that.

12:46It was. It was just a little Santa Claus dress. But it was put my dressing gown box. So then that Christmas was the one where... Too short for lowest at ten. My mum bought my dad, they've been divorced for about ten years at this point, and she bought him a unicycle. Do you remember? I thought she'd... No, she bought dad a unicycle. You said your dad. Oh, yeah, she bought you a unicycle. She swapped the... Because Christy and Gabby's mum used to buy me a dressing gown every year. So I had medium, large, extra large. And the year... She used to buy them for birthdays as well. Yeah, birthdays. And I said to her, do you think we can maybe just take it easy in the dressing gowns?

13:18So she bought my unicycle instead. Still got her, actually. I mean, she really did. She's got a flat tie. She veered away from the dressing gowns quite severely. Yeah, but then your dad got the dressing gowns. Now, I just want to reiterate, you couldn't see my pants. It was a fairly regular Mrs Claus dress. They have a habit of exaggerating. I know it's a bit early to say this, but since Reuben and Lois have both pretty much moved out this year, more on that later, I'm looking forward to seeing them both at Christmas even more this year. It's always a bit chaotic, and we may have some slightly odd traditions.

13:50Phantom wine, anyone? But it is the one time of year we're all together for at least a couple of days. And maybe the Mrs. Claus outfit might come out again. Another very different but also incredibly important and vulnerable conversation with Kenny was around his experience of having dyslexia. This is an experience that shaped his school days, his sense of self as a child and the way he still sees himself today. This was such a powerful conversation because it's about more than struggling with reading. It's about confidence, resilience and finding your way in a world that doesn't always accommodate differences.

14:21It is Dyslexia Awareness Week and I think it's easy to forget sometimes if you don't have somebody in your life with dyslexia or you don't know much about it, what an impact it can have or not even forget, you just don't realise what an impact it can have on people and I think it's something that is much more understood now. I went to school with a girl called Fenula, and I remember in sixth form, her getting some extra time with her exams because she had dyslexia. And that was the first time, I think, I'd really heard about dyslexia. She had always had a few kind of processing issues, maybe at school, but she was really clever and she went on to have a fantastic career.

14:59But I suppose we didn't really know what it was, you know. And then when I met you, of course... Neither did I. When I met you, it was one of the first things you wanted to tell me about. You actually found out about it more than, I didn't really want to tell you. It's interesting now, just chatting, how I feel now. Because when I was 21, I wouldn't speak about it because I was so embarrassed about it. But I still feel nervous because like when I was a little boy, I used to get tied up my stomach. I was scared. And even now sitting here, even though it's the most comfortable environment with somebody I love, I still feel that emotion in my stomach, which probably never leaves you.

15:34so you do feel quite not in a nice way, in a nervous way thinking, I don't like going back here and I remember when I wrote my book I had to stop talking about it because I didn't want to go back to my childhood, where now I'm a lot more comfortable talking about it, I know how important it is for children to hear me speak but also for adults to understand if they are dyslexic or if their children are, how you should be trying to help them and ways of making it easier for them and trying to understand what it is, I mean I genuinely thought I'd get antibiotics and it was cleared in 10 days, but it didn't quite work.

16:05Well, you didn't even know at school. No, it's interesting. You have periods of your life, there's two people I remember really well growing up from school days, certainly from my high school days, because that's when I really started to panic. And when I was younger, I didn't panic too much because, oh, it'll come, it'll come. So you saved me panic when you were in primary school. Let's go back there to start with. Yeah, I used to weave myself. Well, there was no diagnosis. No diagnosis. I just thought it was a little bit slower than everybody else. And then you become that, you're a thick kid.

16:36He's a thick kid, he can't read. And then they make fun out of you. And then they go, oh, let's get Kenny to read. Oh, that'll be funny. So then your self-esteem starts to get affected. And I think I was lucky having good cousins, family around me. Not that my mum and dad knew I was dyslexic. But they were like, oh, you'll be fine, you'll be fine. And I left the school to go to another school. But when I went to high school, I really panicked. because I knew that I was going into environment where I was 11, 18-year-olds. It was a big jump and they were looking at me totally differently. So I was in remedial class.

17:09You know, I used to sit with kids. Did you give up on yourself? I used to go into school every day thinking, I'm going to do it today, I'm going to do it today. But as I said, get back to the two teachers that gave me self-esteem was a guy called Norrie Berner, who was my PE teacher. At high school. At high school. And a lady called Deirdre Wilson. and Deirdre Wilson was the first person to say, I think you're dyslexic. And I was about 15, just turning 16. By that time, I was well checked out. I just thought, I've got to get through this. I could see I had something, I was bright. You know, I remember selling logs to farmers and neighbours to try and make money because that was the entrepreneurial spirit coming out.

17:46I mean, I started making quite good money when I was 14, like£100 a week. I was thinking, now we're talking. You know, so my head had already gone into thinking, how am I going to, you know, as a farmer so how can I do things different in the farm? So I was already thinking that school was over for me. I just had to get through these two years. So you hadn't read a book at all? No, well I did read a book with, I used to pick up books I used to try and pick up words like the, then, and Nobody did phonics with you? No, no, no. Well, I don't think You didn't teach phonics really then, did you? No, but the problem is when you're dyslexic you don't process very well.

18:21So they're telling you loads and loads of stuff and you're trying to just concentrate, sitting still. And you just got overloaded. You see, nothing actually goes into you. And actually, I think what happened for me was I wanted to learn, but it just wouldn't stick in my head. What did letters look like to you? I'd pick out words in the letter that wasn't a word. So I'd say there was them, I'd pick up me. You know what I mean? A bit backward. I'd pick out words like that, for example. I would pick it up, I would see thanks and go, and you know what I mean so I couldn't you wouldn't see the start of it and you jumped to the end so then you started to try and pick up what can you see in the world so we're looking at it back and forward and also sometimes it's just a line you know just a line of what letters your eyes are not seeing the gaps So it was extraordinarily tiring Exhausting Exhausting and very emotional you know I had oh god I had three months of just off school struggled hated it teachers saying he's lazy, he's not this, he's not that I don't blame the teachers I tend to blame I don't blame MD actually because the system wasn't ready for people like me but I did get quite emotional not emotional but I got stomachache for like three months I had from the stomachache I was told that I was lazy had nothing wrong with them getting back to school so I probably had a bit of depression my mum and dad was a farmer, I was happy outside obviously and I was a rugby player as a kid we played all sports, rugby, football, cricket not cricket not cricket if you've seen me play cricket recently I'm terrible so I was going through a lot of things by myself and that's what was hard I think when I talk about it now I don't get emotional I don't get emotional talking about it but you go back to that feeling it is lonely ever since I met Kenny this has been a really honest and open conversation that we've had.

20:18And I've always admired his determination and the strategies he built to navigate life with dyslexia. And it is so encouraging to see how far awareness has come. But hearing him reflect on the impact it had on his school days is a reminder of why we need to keep that progress going. Now, another huge milestone in our family life has been Reuben and Lois's 20th birthday. For me, as a mother, it meant I was now the parent of two bona fide grown-ups, which felt kind of surreal. Watching them grow into independent, funny, thoughtful adults has been the greatest privilege of my life. So for the first time, Lois and Ruben came on the podcast together.

20:54It was a real treat to capture them at that turning point, reflecting on what it means to leave the teenage years behind, their relationship with each other, with me and Kenny and with home. And also, can I thank you both for coming on on your 20th birthday? Scary, scary, scary words. It is actually what a present for me to give you. an hour of my time. Wow. We were supposed to do this a few days ago, but Ruben's schedule changed. Very busy. And so we've moved it to today. But you did kind of celebrate your birthday yesterday while England's women were winning the Euros and I was out in Basel.

21:33You had a little soiree. Viewing party, we call it. A viewing party, yeah. Yeah, so I kind of arrived back from Basel in the early hours. well I say early hours I got a very early plane home and walked in to find guys in the house I hadn't seen before you know they were pretty scared of mum I tell you what they all ran up to my room and said Gabby's here Gabby's here what do we do some leftovers from the party had stayed over which was good fun and then they all stayed to watch you open your birthday cards and presents which I always find yeah but I find that it's hilarious watching I enjoyed it much more with them there oh that's nice it was much more fun because they commentate on every present They do commentate on every present.

22:12Yeah. It was a nice experience, wasn't it? You've got very funny friends. I enjoyed their company. So here we are, 20, no longer a teenager. Lois, first of all, what does that mean to you? Oh, God. Like a sense of impending doom, maybe, kind of comes onto my shoulders. It's quite scary. I just don't feel like, I don't know, I don't like it, really. Why? It just feels a bit too grown up. It sounds very mature. yeah I don't because I remember like when I was younger and I used to kind of look at 20 year that's old that's old that's really old I just say you know you're on a podcast called the midpoint yeah I know you're kidding people in midlife would kill to be 20 well actually that's not true don't necessarily think they would kill to be 20 they're enjoying themselves they are enjoying themselves yeah I think it's well they they know that you know the best is yet to come your 20s are an interesting place to be I think if you listen to the midpoint you've accepted the fact you're middle age you know you're pretty much adapted to that so i don't think that's an issue no i don't i think you're absolutely right reuben gosh so why i think being 20 though also opens up a lot of doors of opportunity so in what sense well you know you're older you're i'm going to be kind of graduating from uni in a couple of years and you're moving you know on to new new challenges reuben i think you know we're not kids anymore we're kind of moving into adult life I'm not willing to accept that fact I think that's because Lois has got an innate sense of maturity and Ruben is a more learned behaviour what's quite ironic we spoke about this just on the table with us when you were in town there is the fact that we are you know the argument of nature versus nurture is a great example as me and you of it being nature because we were brought up the exact same at the same time by these same parents and we're so different exactly I think that's a good example but then I I saw a psychologist talking about this and saying ah but and he was talking about siblings more than twins but even though you think you're doing things the same much harsher on me I'm glad you've realised that now people are different and the way you treat their peccadillos and their differences what's a peccadillo?

24:18you know kind of quirks quirks of personality is sometimes subliminally you're doing things differently right so you might for example reward a certain behaviour for a girl that you then chastise for a boy. Even if you think you're doing things totally, you're not being sexist, you're, yeah. Speaking of which, do you remember when I got the term gender fluid confused? Yeah, that was... That was a fun stay from school for a few weeks. That's more of an issue for Reuben than it did for me ever. I did an interview and I was talking about your toys and I meant... No, it was clothes. It was, you asked the question, would, you know, you force your son or girl to wear girl or boy clothes and you...

24:55Yeah, but what I meant was you can wear... You were trying to be really kind of... Really smart. she's to be really smart like saying the word peccadillo you know what I mean like trying to peccadillo trying to overdo it with a conversation no no no I didn't mean gender fluid and poor Ruben Stacey well you got an article that said I was bringing you up to be gender fluid which is strange to see when you're 12 years old but yeah unknowing that you're gender fluid well I also didn't say that in the article but that's the you know immediate like I had an embarrassing thing the other day didn't I where a video got kind of on my I was scrolling and the girl was talking about a massage in London and I didn't realise that she was talking about something sexual.

25:34This is becoming a theme with you. I think you need to just sort of stay off Instagram for a while. I don't think you might understand how it works. Anyway, let's go back to maturity and innate sense of kind of maturity, which Lois, I think we'll both agree, has probably got. Perhaps. I'll tell you how this is defined to me. This morning, I'm waiting for my luggage coming off the carousel at 7.15 this morning in the airport and I rang to wish Lois a happy birthday and asked her to go and get Dad up and she went, not yet, I'm just cleaning the kitchen floor because you had a party yesterday. You were out for the count, asleep upstairs and Lois thought ahead and thought, Mum won't want to come home to a really dirty kitchen after a party, so she was cleaning it up.

26:19I thought I'd cleaned it the night before, I think that's the difference there. But you hadn't, Reuben. and you weren't in the right mindset to know if the kitchen was clean or put it that way. From the point of view that I saw it, it was very clean. So anyway, very faded vision. You now, as Lois pointed out there, are going to move even further away from home. You've signed for Sailshark. You're moving to Manchester, which as you discovered on your journey up there to go and watch them play at the end of the season is a long way from where our family home is. So this is going to be a big, I think, Lois, if you probably agree, this is going to be the biggest change that you've experienced, I would say.

26:53yeah I'm not Lois I'm moving up and moving out of the world you know um I don't live at home anymore like Lois does but um don't bite Lois don't bite Lois it's good for her it's good for her you know someone needs to be closer to the nest but um you've just signed a house so you've got somewhere to live yes yeah which is nice which you're worried about for a bit there and uh and you you're going to be moving up in a few weeks time and it's not just a nip home Manchester no it's it's going to be good good I'm looking forward to being away um I think I've probably grown out of my house a little bit in the sense of the parents need me gone so I think that should be interesting We don't need you gone.

27:28Yes they do I think that's become apparent. I think that's harsh Yeah we don't need you gone. Well I can't tell you what I can't wait is to go to bed when you've got nothing on tomorrow and actually sleep until you wake up as opposed to mum just coming in at a random hour usually early and waking me up in my own room because you feel like it and I can't wait for that to subside Usually it's about three hours after I got up and I always feel like Or you need to walk with dogs or something I don't have a dog. Exactly. Bang. I was quite glad we had to record that in separate rooms just because of technical difficulties as we recorded it at home, because I'm not sure it wouldn't have descended into something physical.

28:01But they do love each other, really. And it blows my mind that I've been a mum for two decades now. What struck me most in that chat we had was their very different ways of looking at adulthood. Lois's sense of responsibility and embracing that maturity versus Ruben's determination to hold on to freedom for a little bit longer. And finally, Kenny and I talked about the next chapter for us as parents, preparing for the so-called empty nest. It was a mix of practical frustrations, nostalgia, and also hope for what this next stage might bring. The rules of the house, though, and how the dynamic has changed, okay, I was expecting a bit more than we've had in terms of...

28:38Hasn't... Well, I was hoping by now that the kids would be doing more of their own washing, you know, coming... Yeah, but that's where they come home, isn't it? And more of their... Reuben cooks amazing food but for himself I'll come in from work and there'll be this incredible smell it's a bombsite and he'll have made some amazing meal and I said do you not think to like text the family WhatsApp group and see if anybody else wants some food so I kind of like I'm wanting a bit more maturity Kenny there's still only 19 Gabs what were you doing at 19? that's the thing we were doing loads at 19 yeah you did well you hadn't left home yet at 19 but you'd done a lot of adult stuff I was perfect for Scotland I hate to tell you I was off to Australia I'd gone I'd left home I was very independent at 19 so I suppose we are comparing them to us but one of my friends, Claudia, said a friend of hers said to her because I was moaning about all the shoes at the back door the other day and she said one of the wisest things she'd heard from an older friend was you'll miss the shoes when they're not there I'm going to start crying and that worries me because that means I'll be getting a bollock at all the time because obviously if all the trainers are at the back door that means that there aren't kids kicking off trainers and also it's nice when Ruben brings mates and Lois brings friends I was about to say the different sizes of trainers yeah different sizes yeah when there's when there's when there's some size 10 Air Force ones I know that Ruben's got mates home because all of his are size 13 like boats and so if I see some smaller Air Force ones I think oh we've got guests today yeah the other thing with Lois is because she's at home quite a lot anyway with her horse and stuff she's always at the house so she's not like Ruben will be here and go and come back so and she they are totally different social creatures Ruben he cannot be on his own for more than an hour or so he's got constantly got somebody to meet or go to the cinema with or where she's outside she's quite happy to be their own yeah yeah yeah she's very much self-sufficient self-sufficient but so you're going to miss i don't know i think about it too honestly i definitely when ruben left i was really upset because he because we'd done so much traveling to games and doing stuff and then all that was that disappeared so for me having two days a week with him and like us taking him to Coventry and all the different training grounds for the last five or six years, that just stopped but they still got to see but Lois has been quite, you know, she'll come in, she'll do the dish, she'll do things round the house, not that Ruben won't without a bit of persuasion but you'll miss a lot of these little things that you don't see how you get on today, what you're doing is company so, and it'll be weird when we are sort of on their own That would be very strange having such a quiet, which everybody craves you crave it through and I've got a lot of friends who've still got younger kids and they crave that solitude and quietness and then when it comes and hits you in the face it's quite but you've also got to look positive right and think this is an opportunity for you know you and I as a couple right because we've been you know you come together at the start and everything's great you have children you sort of move children become your main thing you and I have taken up more golf we'll do more things together we've also I'm also looking forward to me finishing your stories but you not interrupting me I'm looking forward to that I'll be about 95 when that stops so the point is I think you've got to as a couple you've got to think about right this is an exciting time for them you've got to don't burden them we're going oh I'm going to miss you I'm going to miss you you've got to let them know that this is your time to go and express yourself and really enjoy it I was with Lois this morning in the early morning to get into somewhere with a horse and she was she's genuinely really excited about it she's and this is the funny thing right I'm thinking about Ruben you've got to go to the dentist and he's got a club, a doctor, dentist, everything's there.

32:10You've got to go and speak to him. Lois is on the NHS booking herself into a dentist. A practice in the town where she's going to. No, the doctors getting herself registered because it's going to be mayhem, Dad, because people just start, I'm thinking, oh my God, this is so different. She's so organised. She's so organised. It's so like me, it's unbelievable. She's already got her, she needs a car at uni to go off to be able to ride. So she's already got her car permit sorted out. She's got her doctors registered. Yeah, she's so organised. And she's already telling me. She's probably done a meal plan for her first week.

32:37And I said, what do you think about clubs? And she goes, well, I'm thinking about the golf because that could be good for me in the future because she likes the golf. So I just love it. I love, so she's going to be... She's going to love it. She's going to love it. And Ruben's obviously in a different, you know, he's going to do online Open University. So let's talk about you then, because I feel... I feel great, Gabs. A bit like... At the moment. A bit like with Ruben. You are going to, because you have been really instrumental in getting the horses around, right? And moving... I'm a favourite parent, yeah.

33:06I provide different things so we have different different kind of relationships and do different things together but we do spread it around yeah like we're in and out of each other well I'm going to Paris to work towards the end of the month she's going to come with me for a couple of days before she goes and I went to the Olympics so that was a great day yeah so it was good but we could have we all did something together we did play golf together the other week we did the four of us four of us which was really enjoyable really lovely yeah so just on you and how you're going to fill those hours?

33:35Well, play more golf, play more golf, work a bit harder, prune my garden more. And yours. That was a joke, that was a joke, don't put that in. Well, you've been spending more time in the gym. Yeah, I've trained a bit more, only because Ruben says I'm getting saggy boobs. And then last night, he slapped me and went, ooh, where have they come from? Yeah, I'm enjoying my training. By the way, his slap cheese makes it sound like you've got a very violent relationship. Hit my chest. Yeah. And he went, oh, where have those bad boys come from? So anyway, that was fun. I mean, don't know what that was fun about.

34:13So I'm doing a bit more training. I'm playing a bit more golf on, you know, I'm enjoying. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm good. Yeah. I think you've got to, you've got, I think they're going off to do something new and you've got to say, right, you can't just go, oh my God, I'm really missing my children. this is your time to sort of re-stimulate what you need to do and what you need to feel good about because I want to be around for the next 45 years I hear so many people talking about empty nest and I think it is one of those things that when you're in the midst of it you notice it more but I'm not sure my parents talked about that when we were leaving home and like so many families we're learning how to let go while still being there for our kids and as Kenny said it's not just about missing them it's also about rediscovering who we are as a couple Those conversations reminded me that family life is never static.

35:00Just when you think you've worked it all out, a new stage begins. But if there's one thing I've learned, it's that laughter, honesty and a lot of patience go a long way. So that's the Logans, at least in podcast form. These clips show, for me, the highs and lows, the humour and the heart and the way we all try to model through it together. I hope they've given you a glimpse, not just of my family, but maybe the themes that we all face. Love, loss, resilience, change and connection. Thanks, as always, for listening and for letting me share a little more of my world with you.

35:56Thank you.