Matt Hampson

0:04Hello and welcome to The Midpoint. Today's episode is a bit different and perhaps a sobering one. We've all heard or used the expression, you never know what's going to happen tomorrow. You never know what tomorrow is going to bring. Well, my guest today woke up one morning as a healthy, promising England under 21 rugby union player and went to bed as someone who would never walk or breathe unaided again. It was a cold March evening in 2005 when Matt Hampson found himself unable to move at the bottom of a pile of bodies as a scrum collapsed in a routine training session. In that moment, his life changed forever and the lives of those around him.

0:41After 18 months in hospital, he began learning to live again as a tetraplegic, meaning he can't move from the neck down. He'd never reach his sporting potential or live the life of a top rugby player that he was hoping for. Well, a lot happened in the time since then and today, and it didn't take long for Matt to start thinking of others. raising money for Spinal Research UK and eventually raising enough to build a dedicated physical rehabilitation centre for sufferers of serious injuries through sports accidents. The Get Busy Living Centre officially opened in 2018. His campaigning and fundraising didn't stop there.

1:20Accommodation for families who are affected by injuries have been added to the centre and he even finds time to coach rugby from his specially adapted mobility chair at his old school. His incredible work has led him to being honoured with an OBE. He's a quite remarkable human and I'd love you to meet him.

1:41Matt Hampson, welcome to The Midpoint. How are you today? Yeah, I'm all good. Not bad at all, thank you. And it's been a while since I've seen you, actually. You look very, very well indeed. Sun-tissed almost. Yeah, you look very healthy. Yeah, I'm doing okay. Good to have you on. One of the things that struck me in just reminding myself of the details of your story and where you've come from is that it is 20 years since your accident, which time flies, doesn't it? Does it feel like that to you, though, in the situation you're in? Can you believe that almost you have lived as much life before as after?

2:27Yeah, in one way, it's actually quite surreal. I think this injury sort of hits you in waves where you're living your life the best you can in this situation. And then it dawns on you, actually, did this actually happen to me? I can't believe this actually happened to me. And then, yeah, 20 years on. And I don't get that feeling as much. But when I initially had my accident, that was the feeling for quite a long time. How are you in thinking back and reliving? Is it something you try not to do? No, I always do. I try and share my story as much as possible. trying to raise as much awareness as possible of injuries in sports and the DMI Foundation, really.

3:28And we know how important the foundation is and what great work it does. We'll get into that. But going back to what we were talking about, kind of that period of time, how quickly or how long did it take for you to get to a position after the accident where you wanted to start getting busy living? yeah I think we I always say that it's trying to be at peace with your injury and trying to yeah trying to understand the reason behind why why I got injured and there was a lot of soul searching and a lot of why me why me in this situation and then actually it could have happened to anyone so yeah there's first and foremost There's a lot of that.

4:19And then, yeah, it's just adjusting to life in this situation and trying to take the positives out of it, I suppose. Something that was something to me quite negative, really, in a lot of ways initially. Hugely negative because you were just at the start of something. You didn't even have a career to look back on and what you could have achieved. And, you know, when I read your award winning biography, which was written by Paul Kimmage, wasn't it? Yeah. Engage. It's a brilliant book and anybody who hasn't read it should do just as a piece of literature and as a piece of emotional reading. You know, after they hear you today, I'm sure they'll want to.

5:02And that had kind of fantasy parts of that book, didn't it? The kind of fantasy parts of a life that you hadn't lived yet. Yeah. And that as a young man must have been the initial kind of your initial reckoning of what was going on must have been forefront of your mind. Like what could I have done? What could I have achieved in this career? Yeah, pretty much so. I think I was pretty one-dimensional as you are as a young sportsperson growing up. You're solely focused on that and you've dedicated your life to that. That's all you ever want to do, to play for Leicester Tigers and play for England.

5:47You're solely focused on that. and that gets taken away from you and then it's trying to redefine yourself I suppose and trying to find a reason for why this happened and trying to understand why this didn't happen I think that was probably the hardest thing for me that I hadn't hit the hit the heights of what I wanted to what I wanted to achieve and what my life goal was and then yeah obviously yeah moving on from that is trying to yeah trying to find trying to piece your life back together and trying to find a reason for why this had happened and people do that in life at various times but they don't necessarily do that combined with living a life that physically was going to be so difficult so people sometimes you know they lose a job or they might even have to I spoke to a netballer the other day who can't play again she's a high performance because of a heart condition but she doesn't have to learn how to live a life as a disabled person you know and you were living so so you had these double whammies what was it a case of prioritizing one above the other or was it happening kind of alongside each other the the emotional and also the physical reality of your new life yeah i suppose yeah the yeah the emotion and physical reality.

7:13I mean, it was the emotional side probably the most difficult because when you're a young person, there's lots of questions that bring through your mind. You know, will I ever be able to be in a relationship? Will anybody ever want to be with me? Will my friends stay with me? will I be able to find something fulfilling and something that gives me that gets up to really to live life, I suppose. And when you're in hospital, you're very much institutionalised. 17 months you're in hospital. Yeah, in St. Vanderbilt, 17 months in St. Vanderbilt. And how's life going to look, what's life going to look like in this situation?

8:08how I'm all going to feel, people looking at me differently, treating me differently in a wheelchair. So there's so many complex feelings that are really, really difficult to sort of come to terms with and be a piece of advice and feeling happy about yourself again. and also the constant self-scrutiny of being a professional athlete, which is very, very unhealthy and a professional athlete, which is really, really difficult because ultimately when you're in a wheelchair and when you're paralysed from the night down, there's no fix for it. There's nothing you can do about it. You know, when you're a young sports person, you can go into a gym, lift weights, get stronger.

9:06You can go out, you can go to the treadmill or go to the row machine and improve your cardiovascular strength. But when you're paralyzed, there's no fixing it. And that's really, really difficult. Because every time, as you say, you had a solution. So and actually, there's kind of an institutionalized nature to being a rugby player. Everybody tells you, you know, when you've got to be somewhere, what time this is, you know, your day is structured out for you. As you say, a lot of reviewing of things that you've done, you know, whether it was, you know, back in your day, probably not so much on your phone, but you'd have had to watch tapes and you'd have been told, you know, but you're given feedback all the time.

9:49And then you go into this, as you say, institution of a hospital. And so coming out of that must have been a really strange feeling into a life that didn't have all those things around you and all those timetables. And yet you probably found a different kind of framework, I imagine. So how did that transition feel? Yeah, I was trying to be fairly structured, you know. and in the morning it takes me three to four hours to get up in the morning and that has to be very structured. The way I do things to keep me healthy, to keep me living. Tell us a bit about that, what happens in those hours. Yeah, so it's basically doing like my morning routine will consist of doing long bowels, consists of washing, consists of chest physio as well and that's what ultimately keeps me living.

10:53So I suppose from my sporting background in a way that helped because I'm very much, I'm very disciplined with that and I know that I have to be disciplined to keep me healthy, keep me living and yeah, to keep, yeah. You don't get a day off that one though, do you? You don't get Sundays off seven days a week. No, seven days a week. It's quite weird actually. one of my best mates Matt Cornwell he saw me I had chest physio the other day for the first time and he said oh that that actually takes a lot takes a lot of discipline to do that and I've never looked at it that way and I suppose it does so yeah it's it's tough and it is monotonous and but I just know that it's a means to an end and that the end is to keep me healthy and it gave me fun with it really.

11:50So in terms of that emotional process over those 17 months, how low did you get in terms of seeing any kind of light at the end of the tunnel? And how did you get out of those slumps? Because I know that's something that you really focus and help people with now. I was very fortunate in that environment to have a lot of support from my friends and family. I had to get a diary to pull people in to come and see me because I had so much support, which was amazing. And there'd be other people who'd had their accidents in all different circumstances. And for them, I found it really difficult seeing them not have a visitor from one week to the next.

12:40and I was inundated with people coming and seeing me and I was very, very fortunate to have that support. So I personally felt in a relatively privileged situation in that way. And did that make you feel almost that you had to do it for them because you had so much support that you couldn't let them down? Yeah, absolutely. I think so. I knew that I had a voice. I knew that I had a profile that I could make a change and be able to help people in this situation. I suppose it's really, really difficult because there's so many different feelings when you're in that environment of the unknown and so many questions that are really through your mind.

13:31And the unknown is really scary in that situation. and what's life going to look like in this situation? How can you go home and then start living life again and try to piece it back together and try to find a way, I suppose, and find something that's fulfilling a purpose once again because my life is solely focused on being a rugby player. How are your family dealing with it? I'm sure to you they were very supportive, but I'm sure you found out kind of behind their presence with you, they must have themselves had to come to terms with a life that they weren't expecting and a person that they had thought they'd known was going to be somebody different because of the physical and also emotional needs that you would have.

14:26I think I see that a lot more now because I'm closer to the age when I had my accident. And so I sort of understand it from how they must have been feeling, how helpless they must have been feeling. I think as a parent, it's both difficult to come to terms with your loved one being injured. I speak to a lot of parents coming to the centre now and I can understand them. I can sort of resonate with and the way they must have been feeling, I suppose. The way my parents must have been so helpless. I think my mum's very much a fixer and a doer. My dad, he was very focused on wanting to find a cure and that probably didn't really help me that much because he kept on bringing newspaper articles in about cures for spinal injuries.

15:35And for me, that wasn't what I needed at all. And I found that really difficult because there was no way of fixing this. And have all those learnings helped you with the centre? And when you have new people who've come in fresh from their accidents and the process they're about to go through in terms of how you help and support families? Yeah, definitely. I think my experience, I can definitely mentor people and help them and say to them that it will get better. It will improve. You've just got to trust us and we'll help you every step of the way. and I think people coming to the centre, the biggest obstacle initially is to accept that you need that help and coming to the centre is really, really important for them because we're not just about constantly looking at physical rehab, we're looking at the full package really, the psychological rehab as well, but also the mentoring, the friendships, the team and the community that we've created at the foundation, which is so, so special.

16:53And it's a very, very simple formula, which works so, so well and takes a lot of influence from rugby, really, in that way. In terms of a team and everybody knowing their roles. Yeah. How many people can be there at any one time? How many clients? We support 70 people, 70 regulars a week. We've held some of the 300 beneficiaries now. Wow. Which is pretty special really. Because you focus I think on sports injuries, are they mainly younger people? Yeah, many younger people, although I'm getting older, so the crowd's a kid for coming to the centre. Yeah, the age bracket's getting high, really. And that's just why I can still go to the centre.

17:49But yeah, many young people. I think that's an England shirt I can just see behind you. Yes. And you said you drew parallels with the team ethos of your centre with rugby. Did you ever fall out of love with rugby? Did you ever resent rugby afterwards? No, I don't think I've resented it. I say that rugby gives me more now than what it did before my accident and the fact that people don't support me, still turn out for me. It's incredible. You come to a rugby dinner that we have every February in London and it's amazing. and it's just growing each year and it allows us to carry on doing the work that we do at the foundation.

18:39And the players that turn up for the foundation is incredible. And we still feel very lucky and privileged to be supported so well and so loved. And I've never, ever resent a rugby because of that. And the people that will turn out for me John Loma and Martin Johnson came and saw me in hospital which is pretty surreal really I imagine Martin in particular was probably one of your childhood heroes yeah absolutely I played it I trained him at Tigers so it was incredible to have that support and you've been coaching as well, you coached at Oakham School yeah so you still wanted to be in that environment, in the thick of that environment.

19:33Yeah, I still love the sport. I still, I'm going to go to the Tigers this week, actually, to see the boys and go and say hello and introduce myself and tell them about my story and what Leicester means to me and what Leicester Tigers means to me. And I still feel that rugby's a very, very special sport and it's yeah we sort of look after our own really which is incredible really In terms of the safety and what happened to you that day, do you think the sport is any different to them? Could that accident just as freakishly happen tomorrow? No, I'd say especially in the scrum I think scrum improves a hell of a lot the the way they do the scrums, the way the scrums performed, the way it's refereed and the way it's sort of overlooked.

20:34It's not safer than what it was when I was playing. Do you think it took something as tragic and catastrophic as what has happened to you to make people realise as well that those changes had to happen? Yeah, perhaps. Perhaps, yeah. maybe this is the reason why it did happen. I look back on scrums when I was playing, it's completely different now compared to what it was. And the training is so different, Matt, isn't it? Kenny always says about contacts at half an hour now, the guys are in full contact in training. It was every day back in the day. And as a parent of a young rugby player and as someone who is around parents of young rugby players and rugby players, I think it's important that that message gets through, doesn't it?

21:27That the sport is so much safer than it was because all the attributes of the sport that mean you are still loved and supported by rugby are also still there. And that incredible ethos is still there. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think the values of rugby is still there, which is so, so important. but I yeah I think rugby as a whole is still an incredible sport and it's still kept its identity but also it's a little a lot safer and it's I'm not only so really And this podcast Midpoint is for those kind of people who are approaching the middle of life and changes are happening and you know you're over 40 now so you're well into this period it starts at 38 apparently officially um so yeah so you're middle-aged whether you like it or not um are there are there are there different physical challenges for you as you get older in terms of what's happening to your body um yeah so i think now i i know that i need to look after myself i'm probably not as um yeah loose as what i was before i suppose um so yeah i know my limitations now i know how to sort of look after my body.

22:49I know that, you know, diet is really important for me. I know, yeah, drinking plenty is really important for me. I drink a hell of a lot of water throughout the day, which keeps me healthy. And I know what I need to do to keep my body in good shape, really. And you talked a lot in the kind of years afterwards about how your future would be different. You've referred to it today as well. And I guess the family that you thought you might have looks quite different because there is family around you and there is community around you, but it's different to the one that the 20-year-old Matt thought he might have.

23:30Yeah, I think everybody looks at other people's lives and envy that and almost their life could be like somebody else's life. and now I try to actually understand that everybody's got a lot going on in their own lives and it's not always straightforward and I recognise that now and I suppose I don't envy that as much because I do lead a good life, I enjoy my life I've got really good people around me that love and care about me and yeah, life's pretty good really and you make the best of this situation really, I suppose. And my life completely took a different turn. But I don't know if I'd actually known life without being in this situation now.

24:29I guess the period from 20 to 30, those periods that must have been quite challenging for you to deal with when your peers were starting to settle down or have children and all those things that it's hard, isn't it? Because, you know, it feels like, you know, why that must have, again, evoked those feelings of, well, what would I have been like, you know, as a father at this stage? And who was around to kind of counsel you on that? And how did your friends, I think this is important for people listening who might be in a similar situation, or they have friends who are in a similar situation to you how do who were the best people at making you feel good about where you were and how did they do that in those times well certainly the optimistic people i suppose it's like i said my mum's she always tries to find uh she's always pretty optimistic my dad's quite negative in the way he is yeah he's a negative northerner he's from from north but my mum's very uh yeah she She always tries to be optimistic as possible.

25:35So when those friends were having families and things, was it better that they just embraced you and said, you know, because I think people are sometimes nervous, aren't they? It's like, oh, should we let Matt know? Or should we bring him in on this? How is he going to feel about this? Did you get a sense of that, that they didn't quite know? Yeah, definitely. I'm a godfather to quite a few kids. So, yeah, I suppose I don't have any bitterness or resentment. I've got my brother who's got two girls and I've got my sister who's got three boys. There's enough grandchildren? Yeah, well, there's enough nids and nephews to me.

26:18But your parents, though, there's a lot of kids going on. There's a lot of kids going on, yeah. Did you never have any bitterness? and no i i think the hardest i i think when i came home from hospital and i i had this phone conversation not my dad did he put this big tv up on the wall and i watched i can't remember the game um but i watched some of my colleagues and friends singing the national anthem. And I think I remember James Haskell quite vividly because I was a teammate of James Haskell's. And I just cried my eyes out because it just, yeah, it just brought up so many emotions. And yeah, I just remember watching them on TV.

27:14And I felt there was a mixed feeling of, I didn't feel envious or proud or just emotional about the whole thing. It really brought up a lot of emotions for me and that was tough. Was that the first time you'd really allowed yourself to feel that kind of emotion? Because you were so busy focusing on getting out of hospital almost over the months before. Yeah, I did a lot of soul searching. It's a night when you're on your own and you're in a hospital ward and you're in your... I was in a side room and when the lights go out and you feel like you're on your own and you're in your own head, that's the hard times.

28:03That's when you really struggle. They're the really dark times. And I suppose I'd love different emotions on that type. which I find really difficult to deal with. But I spoke to a lot of people who were injured as well. They had their injuries probably 20 years ago who were outpatients at Stramanderville who came to see me. And, yeah, I spoke to them about life and how life would look for them. And then I suppose, yeah, you do get home. you go home and then it's piecing it back together, really. And building incredible things as you've done with the Matt Hampson Foundation and the Centre for the Rehabilitation of mainly people who've gone through serious sports injuries, that must be something that brings enormous pride and joy to you to be able to turn those experiences into something so positive.

29:04Do you feel like you'll ever kind of stop in that regard? Will there ever be a time when you're not crusading and raising money? I don't think I can because I think it's within my sort of DNA, really, which our CEO, Tommy, he wants this. Sometimes it's important just to sit back and look at what we've achieved and what we've done and I struggle to do that. I'm always looking forward. I think that's my coping mechanism. I have to be busy. I have to look at the next step. I have to, yeah, see some sort of progression. and I feel like I knew that way in my life. I feel like I'm quite a driven person in that way, which is not always great.

29:51Sometimes it's good to sort of sit back and just look at what we've achieved. I think it's good to be busy. Without being busy. Do you know what, Ghani? You're probably exactly the same. If you stopped tomorrow, I don't know. How would you fail? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think, well, and that saying, if you want something done, ask a busy person, I think is so right. Because if for some reason I've got a day without much structure in it, I don't get as much done. If I've got 10 things to do, I get them done. You know, and I, listen, if anybody's listening, that doesn't mean I can take on more jobs.

30:25But I, you know, I love that kind of feeling of juggling everything and getting that satisfaction, I think, of getting through all those things. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so in terms of finding the joy in life, I think, you know, it's when you're around people, you talk about your mum and dad being quite different in their outlooks in life. And, you know, we all know people who are a little bit more glass half empty than glass half full. Where do you get your simple daily joys from? Are you one of those people that's quite good at having gratitude for the day and finding something in the day that you can say thanks for?

30:58Yeah, I suppose. I'm bored in my bedroom. because I'm really dyslexic, so I forget absolutely. I'm a nightmare. My brain is just in wide differently to so many people and I'm all over the shop. So I need to write things down to help us out of a tick list. And if I get those things done, my tick list, and then I feel like I've achieved something, I feel like it's a good day. You can go to bed feeling satisfied. Yeah. How is sleep? How long would you sleep for on average of an evening? I sleep pretty well. Probably seven to eight hours a night, which is not bad. It's pretty good. Yeah. So your kind of morning routine, as you've described, is pretty full on to get you into the day.

31:54And you have to rely, obviously, on others to help you do that. How was that, having to learn to rely on people? It's difficult. You get taught very early on in hospital to be verbally independent. So to do that, it's very difficult. It's a skill to do that and try and get the best from people. So you're kind of managing them in a way. Yeah, managing them. And you feel like you're micromanaging all the time, all the time. And people bring different emotions as well, and they bring their own lives and their own trials and tribulations to my life as well, which is fine. You know, I don't mind that.

32:43But sometimes it does get a bit overwhelming. You just want to shut yourself away. I'm very much involved with that process in the morning. I have to be involved with it because it just helps the whole process go a lot quicker. Yeah. Yeah, and it's learning. Like I said, that routine is very, very important to me and I know that's what keeps me healthy.

33:12I live half a day, essentially, in my life. So that morning routine, I've done that, I've parked that, and then I'm up in my chair and then I can start living life. That's how I look at it. But I'm living half a life. That's how I look at it as well. Yeah. Matt, you continue to be an inspiration to so many people and a source of wisdom for people who've been through something that is life-changing and to keep that positivity and that attitude of moving forwards all the time is just so commendable. Thank you so much for sharing that and everything that you've got planned. And I'm sure there are more great plans as well for the centre.

34:00So good luck with it all. And thank you so much for coming on The Midpoint. No, it's so amazing.