Sarah Jossel

0:00Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and this episode is sponsored by Experian Boost. Summer glow-up? Check. Credit glow-up? Even better. Boost your credit scores instantly by getting credit for bills you're already paying. Your phone, utilities, rent, and insurance. I wish dating kind of worked like that. Connect your bank account, add those on-time payments to your Experian credit file, and your FICO score updates right away. You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points.

0:39See App Store or Experian.com for details. Results will vary. Not all payments are boost eligible. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use Experian credit files. And not all lenders use scores impacted by Experian Boost. See Experian.com for details.

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2:10Hello and welcome to The Midpoint. My guest today is someone who is much loved and trusted in the beauty industry. Sarah Jostle has been a must-read in the Sunday Times style section for over a decade. A straight-talking woman on This Morning, and she has thrived on social media, where she gives absolutely brilliant advice, a go-to for so many women and men when it comes to product and treatment recommendations. Her book, The Diary of a Beauty Editor, is out very soon, so it seems like a perfect time to tap into her expertise. And you have been sending in the most brilliant questions. Let's go meet Sarah.

2:44Sarah Jossel, welcome to The Midpoint. Thank you for having me. Very exciting day I meet you on because today is book day. The Diary of a Beauty Editor is officially out today so I've only seen it in pdf form I am mortified that you haven't actually had a copy so I'm going to send you a copy straight after this but yes I've had a typical me day where I was so excited I went off to the bookshops I've been able to see it yet do you know it's that like Instagram versus reality moment where it all looks so glossy but the book hasn't arrived in any of the bookshops so we'll get there though but congratulations because I know you say this in the forward I think it is that it's taken a while to get off the ground this book only five years Yes.

3:24And it prompted a few questions when I was reading the first few chapters. You're quite kind of almost apologetic, first of all, about the you say, look, being a beauty editor is really important. It's not apologetic. That's the wrong word. You're kind of explaining why beauty is important. And I think that's important to establish now as well. How big an industry beauty is. It's not fickle. It's not shallow. It's worth a lot of money to this country. Of course. So beauty is a business. We talk a lot about the incredible work that the British Beauty Council do. So, you know, they are campaigning at Number 10 all the time about whether it is looking at the cosmetic treatments world and how we can be far more careful with what's going on there.

4:00It's the high street, you know, how we contribute to the high street. There is just so much business in beauty and yet it is still massively looked at as just a silly little frivolous world by so many people, men and women. And so that is something that I really wanted to kick the book off with, to just say, yes, I'm a beauty editor. and it's this sort of phrase that I used to always say, which was, I'm a beauty editor, but I did study politics at university. Like, I always thought I really needed to say that. And I was talking to another friend who said she used to say, I'm a journalist, but, you know, not a real one because it's beauty.

4:36And it's so sad that we feel that that's obviously how we've always felt. But I would say after 16 years, I am now so proud. A motor journalist wouldn't do that. No, that's exactly what I said. I referenced a journalist called Hannah Betts who said she got given this, well, she got offered this beauty column. And she said that her colleagues who are sports journalists, you know, wine journalists, car journalists, all was at career suicide. Don't do it. You will not be taken seriously anymore. And she said, you are literally writing about wine and cars and you're saying that beauty is nonsense.

5:14You know, they're all, they all play its part. Absolutely. They are all valid. And as you know, it is so important to people that they, you know, it's not about necessarily having treatments and plastic surgery and treatments, whatever. It's about presenting your best self. And for some people, that's having a hair blow dry. For some people, it's making sure that they're contoured, you know, to the max in the mornings. It's just about what makes you feel good. Each and every one of us have such a different relationship with our reflections and we all are after different things. And that's what I try and say in the book.

5:48This is not about looking pretty for society. This is not about, you know, looking great for anyone else. It's just how you feel when you look in the mirror. And 90 percent of us do this with our hair. And what I'm doing right now is fluffing it in front of as much of our faces as we possibly can because we don't like what we see. And we've been told from a very young age, that's not important. Grades are important. What we do in society is important, but what we look like is not important. And I am here to change that, Gabby. We all know that's nonsense as well, don't we? Because people will, whether they do it subliminally or they do it very overtly, they will decide something about you the minute they look at you.

6:27And whether it's because they've seen your fingernails are well kept, they might decide that you look after yourself. they might decide that you've got dirty fingernails, therefore you don't care about yourself. So it could be so much about you. Yeah, and it's tiny micro things that we're all taking in all the time. Exactly. Right, and I think we need to get on with the questions because, Sarah Jossel, I have never had a response. I love how you say my name. I've just been telling Gabby, I love your voice so much. You need to present Desert Island Discs. That is the show for you with that voice.

6:56Okay, the campaign starts here. Lauren, you're wonderful, but you do need a break at some point in your life and when you are, I'll be ready. And you've had an incredible response from our listeners. They love you and they've sent in a wide range of questions. So I really need to get on with them. Okay. I think you'll be able to answer many of these. So I'm turning into an agony aunt for you today. And I've spoken to a couple of makeup artists in the build-up to speaking to you who you know and you've contacted over the years regarding products. And they all say what they love about your recommendations is that it's not just you on your own at home going, oh, I like this mascara.

7:30Yeah. You contact other people within the industry and you want to know how it's working for them and how long they've been using it. And so, you know, your opinions are incredibly well-researched. So here we go. There's a wide range of stuff. Showtime. And a lot of it does pertain to this period of life, obviously. We haven't got too many teenagers emailing. Funny that, for the midpoint, yes. So I could give the weird Instagram handles, but I don't think I will, actually. But Lelwise44 says... Well, I think you just did. We have called her out. Oh, yeah, let's see. What are the best treatments for pigmentation, which is caused by hormones?

8:06Pigmentation actually often occurs to women first time during pregnancy, doesn't it? That's when they sometimes get those weird brown kind of marks that start. Yes. So that would often be melasma, which most famously will come up on your upper lip or on your forehead. Basically areas also that catch the sun. So I really am going to we've started on a hard one, Gabby, because pigmentation is one of those subjects that I could tell you everything that you could do and ultimately it's still going to come back. So pigmentation never goes away for good. So what you're doing with pigmentation is you're maintaining it for as long as you possibly can and keeping it at bay.

8:41So that's the main thing. So any product you're buying that says gets rid of pigmentation, it can't because once you've got pigmentation, that's your skin. And the second you go back in the sun, it's very likely it's going to come back. So the number one thing you can do with pigmentation, and this is a very boring answer, is SPF. SPF is going to help protect it from not getting worse. A hat is actually before SPF. If you are someone who doesn't wear a hat when you are on holiday in broad sunlight, then your pigmentation is going to come back. So we're talking Joan Collins wide brimmed hat. That's number one.

9:18Number two is SPF. Number three, you're looking at a product. I always say something like these skin rocks I want to say it's anti-pigmentation hyperpigmentation correct me if I'm wrong on screen or somewhere but that is an excellent product for tackling pigmentation and when I say that it's going to help lighten it but you want to be using that through the winter to help lighten it it's not going to take it away completely okay that's excellent advice Quite a lot of these questions sum up what Fran424 says. I don't want, it just shows you how long Instagram's been going, the names have got quite so ridiculous, hasn't it?

9:57Although that could be her birth name. I don't want Botox or fillers. What are the best two products? I love it when I can keep you down to a very distinct answer. Distinctive even. One of the best two products to keep me looking youthful. Right. So the first thing to say is there is no such thing as Botox in a bottle. So any product that is promising you Botox in a bottle, ban them, unfollow them, write to them and say, Sarah Dossel said this is nonsense. That's my first request. In terms of treatment, so what should we say in clinic or at home? Well, I think products, it sounds like something you can buy off the shelf.

10:34Fine. Okay, so I'll quickly just say, because if you're saying I don't want Botox or Phyllis, but I'm interested in something, Skin Boosters is the world to look into. if you're in clinic. Is that okay? Skin boosters? No. No, so skin boosters are injectables, but they are not going to plump your face or freeze your face. They are working on the collagen underneath your skin to help with the texture of your skin and what it looks like. So skin boosters are things like Julaine, polynucleotides, and they're a really, really interesting time for them because what they're not doing is they're not changing your face.

11:04They're helping the texture and essentially what your skin looks like rather than distorting your face shape in any way. So skin boosters are really interesting. It's what a lot of news presenters and celebrities are doing because no one would know. You just look fresher. And I do think we're in that. Is this the one that sometimes is called Salmon Spur? Yes, that's polynucleotide. So it sounds worse than it is in that sense. In terms of products, retinoids. So you will probably have heard of them as retinol. Like, you know, you should use retinol. And I was like, how or what? but that would be the number one step proven any consultant dermatologist who I talk a lot about in the book they are the fairy godmothers of the skincare world they have studied the science of skin for decades they will tell you after SPF retinoids is the number one step for improving your texture fine lines pigmentation acne prone etc and for that the number one you could ever use if you want to look at toleration is a prescription retinoid called tretinoin so i'm gonna say that right as your your number one so you have to get a prescription so that is that is if you're if you're going for like i want this to be the most hard-working level of it but if you're like i'm not gonna go and get a prescription now then i would look at a brand like medicate m-e-d-i-k than the number eight.

12:32They have a range called Crystal Retinol and it starts at number one, that is the gentlest and you can work your way up, I think to number 10 now. And that is the product that I would work into your routine. And may I just say, before you tell me it doesn't work, please use it for at least a month. Right, okay. For instant gratification, if you are thinking, I've got a big event, I want fresh skin and you look in the mirror and you're thinking, my makeup's not sitting that well on my skin, it's a bit dull, it's a bit textured, it's a bit dry, then you want to use an AHA. So that's an alpha hydroxy acid.

13:04And I would do something like the Dr. Dennis Gross peel pads, which are so easy. You just swipe them over your face and it's just going to give you that glow like that. What brilliant trio of advice there. Different levels. Sometimes I think of you, is this face of, Sarah, this is too complicated. No, it's three entry levels almost there, isn't there? From kind of like a slightly more expensive and long-term thing to something you can literally go into a shop right now and just take off the shelf. And I like that. Okay. Okay. So, can you, and there's a lot of questions pertaining to this. Mrs Beaumont says, can you recommend a simple regime for menopausal skin?

13:45Now, this opens up a bit of a can of worms for me because I get quite agitated when I see products describing themselves as middle-aged kind of products. Menosherum. Yes, because I don't know what that really means because surely everybody's skin in midlife is going to be different depending on what they've been doing for the previous 40 years to their skin. I say this in capitals in the books, that menopause is not a skin type. It's a time of your life. It's a phase. So my best friend is going through early menopause because she's on medication post-breast cancer at 30-something. Someone will not have any symptoms till 50-something.

14:23So there is no perfect skincare regime for someone going through menopause. So Mrs Beaumont is not going to get the answer that she wants. What I needed to know from Mrs Beaumont is what are her skin symptoms, essentially, from going through menopause? Is she finding that she's getting, you know, more flush red cheeks or dry skin or suddenly she's getting acne for the first time in her life? Completely different things happen to people. all of those because there's another question that actually talks about middle-aged spots and i wondered whether that was because of obviously it is because of changing hormones often but sometimes when you're topically and or however else you're applying your hrt that is then distorting your hormones so often this is to do with fluctuating hormones right it's all to do with with hormones and lifestyle and you know emotional what you're going through etc all of that affects your skin gut health is a huge one i mean i gut health is through your life though so as in i probably isn't something that will massively change when you when you hit menopause but i would say so let's go through them so if it is acne you suddenly you've never had acne before or the last time you had it was a teenager and suddenly you you're faced with it again so the first thing you want to do is look at your skincare regime what oils are you using in it because oils are the number one problem for acne-prone skin.

15:45So have you been having a lovely life with your face oil, doing gua shas and massage, and suddenly you're getting all these red angry spots? Cut the oils. Go to an oil-free cleanser, oil-free moisturiser, and watch what happens to your skin. So the key word that I always say to people when you're suddenly getting flare-ups is research non-comedogenic. That means non-pore clogging. That's your foundation could be clogging your pores. Your skincare could be clogging your pores. There is a whole world of non-comedogenic skincare and makeup. Non-comedogenic? Yes, it means non-pore clogging. Wow. So it will say that on the product?

16:24Lots of them say it on the product. Lots of them will say oil-free. But really now, you can type it into Google, give me a non-comedogenic cleanser, non-comedogenic moisturiser, and it will give you a full comprehensive list. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So we've got the spots sorted out. And then would you say to that person who's messaged about spots, treat them in the same way they would have done as a teenager. Are there certain products that are better for later life spots than there are for... No, it's all the same. You know, I think people try and market them into different categories. Maybe you don't want to put a Hayley and Justin Bieber Road sticker on your face when you're slightly older.

17:05They're fun, though. They do work. But you could easily say, you know, say you've got a big meeting and you've suddenly seen a huge spot there and you want to put a spot patch on. There are so many invisible ones now, CeraVe, La Roche-Posay. They all do those clear hydrochloric patches, which essentially calms them, stops you picking them, and they're just really helpful. But the ingredient that if you really want to be like, right, I've got the spot, it needs to go, it's called benzoyl peroxide, and you can get that over the counter. It's something a lot of teenagers will know all about, but you're going to pop that on the spot before bed, and it is going to take down.

17:42That's different to popping the spot before bed. Yes, don't pop the spot. Ideally, I do teach you how to pop the spot if you are someone who is going to pop the spot, whether I tell you to do it or not to do it. But no, you're going to pop that on before bed and it's going to calm inflammation, help clear out the bacteria, etc. And then salicylic acid is your friend. Sorry, there's lots of different things. But what I say with this is you don't need it all. Listen to the advice, research yourself and pick the step that you feel speaks to you the most. So then the dry skin that comes, that was a symptom that I definitely noticed when I first realised that my body and my face was changing.

18:19Actually, it was body skin rather than face skin almost at first. Do you need anything different in midlife for your dry skin? So I think it's looking at your skincare regime and thinking, I've always loved that foam cleanser. Move to a cream cleanser or move to a cleansing oil. So I mentioned Medicaid. They do an incredible, I think it's called lipid cleansing oil. but it just feels like you know like silk on your skin it's so delectable which is which is a mad thing to say for a cleanser but it just you know it will really hydrate the skin while cleansing the skin have you always used say a lotion like i've always used the cerave lotion and facial moisturizing lotion but if suddenly my skin was very dry i would turn to the drunk elephant i think it's called the proteini cream which is much richer It's packed with ceramides and glycerin.

19:10And it's got ingredients in there that's going to really amp up the dehydration and the dryness in my skin. So amp it up. Like if suddenly you're faced with dryness and your moisturizer isn't cutting it, go up one. Look for the rich moisturizer, you know, in that way. Okay. Amp it all up. You mentioned redness. And there is a question actually from somebody about rosacea. So I think that is that the same thing? Not necessarily. So rosacea, a very, very common symptom is redness, probably the most common. The reason why I'm very careful with telling people what products to use is often the best thing you can do with rosacea is use a lot less than you're using.

19:51You're probably panicked and upset about the flushed skin and you're using too many products. So strip it all back. Go very, very, very gentle. What I always say, look at brands like La Roche-Posay. Look at brands that are quite literally made for sensitive skin. so that is La Roche-Posay that can often be CeraVe things that are fragrance free is your number one tip you would be surprised how much skincare has fragrance in it and when you've got rosacea prone skin something like I'm going to stick with La Roche-Posay go there because they are absolutely made for sensitive allergy prone skin and that is essentially what is happening your skin is flushed it is allergy prone and it is red so you want to calm it all down Aven is another brilliant brand for rosacea.

20:38They're the kind of more medical looking products. I'm afraid because rosacea in that sense does fall under that category. I think people forget, you know, they think, oh, skincare is all lovely. Skincare isn't trend led and it isn't. I know it looks it and I know Instagram and social media makes you feel that way. But actually, this is the kind of stuff you want to, rather than spending your money on lovely packaging, spend your money on a consultant dermatologist appointment who will say to you, use this, use that. You actually do need prescription. And I talk a lot about prescription strength because it sounds far away from what you're going to use, but actually it could be the step you're missing in your skincare regime.

21:15And it's probably worth me saying now in the whole world of rosacea and redness, azelaic acid. So that is the name. Have you heard of azelaic acid? Okay. So everyone's heard of hyaluronic acid for hydration or AHAs for exfoliation. But azelaic acid is the most unsung hero skincare ingredient for redness, for post acne marks, for uneven skin tone. It is so excellent. And you would find that in products like Dr. Sam's Flawless Brightly Serum. Dr. Sam is an incredible dermatologist who started in clinic, was always seeing people. She is the woman who I actually say is responsible for helping me with my skin journey.

21:56So I've had acne prone skin my whole life and people meet me now and they're like, are you sure? I'm one of those. I will show you a picture after this podcast riddled with spots. And she said to me, we need to switch off the acne and we're going to do that with azelaic acid. So brilliant for that. Brilliant for post acne marks as well. You know, when you get those little marks that you want to fade. Also, two recommendations. Clara, K-L-I-R-A. So that was started by a woman called Dr. Emma Craythorne. and with her you get to do a online consultation with a top dermatologist you will say to her i'm struggling with rosacea nothing is working and she will make you a product based on your needs and it gets sent to you so now what's happening is we're democratizing that whole dermatology world because not everyone can afford to go and see a dermatologist so now you could go to a company like clearer and another one is called skin and me so you would sign up you would say i'm struggling with redness i'm struggling with acne i'm struck i hate my uh pigmentation and fine lines and they will help create the serum step for you to use every day wow um so many advances it's incredible so many um annie says um and now we're kind of getting into slightly more the treatment area and thoughts on microneedles i hear such mixed have you had it yes and what do you think i i definitely see a massive difference yeah when i you know i usually tend to do it more in winter time because of the redness and exactly it gets a little bit if it's hot it's not comfortable is it for a couple of days no micro needling is brilliant i think people have to have realistic expectations so you have to have it more than once sometimes wouldn't have it if you've got very sensitive skin if you've got eczema prone skin if you're about to go in the sun wouldn't have it too close to an event but generally it is brilliant for helping with the collagen helping with the glow so all in all i would say yes but please don't cut corners with where you go because what i do notice is suddenly you'll go to the hairdressers and they'll say oh you know we we started we've got the skin pen and we can do that for you downstairs afterwards it should never be that those sorts of treatments you need to go to a reputable practitioner who you who have seen peer-to-peer reviews you know that everything is hygienic i know it sounds obvious but you would be surprised how easy it is to go oh i saw that person do that on social media i want to do that too go to go ask people who you know love treatments where did you go what was your you know what was the downtime know what you're getting into before you do something like microneedling i said we're getting into treatments but actually there's an area that keeps cropping up um so we've got um linda has asked this question linda briceland she's 72 and she says She's just beginning to see Winkley's skin on her neck, which, I mean, lucky Linda at 72 because I'm seeing it at 53.

24:46And there's a few others who are talking about neck and neck cream. Yes. Is there such a thing as neck cream? Surely that's just a cream that's from somewhere else. I know. I always really want to help the brands out. I don't want to help them, but I always feel bad for the brands because they try so hard with this. I would always say start your face routine from the nipples up. That's the best way to think about it. No matter where your nipples are. Wherever your nipples are, start there and work the way up. Because skin is skin. And yes, you know, this also affects the eye area. People always say about eye creams, do you really need an eye cream?

25:25Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. And this episode is sponsored by Experian Boost. Summer glow up, check. Credit glow up, even better. Boost your credit scores instantly by getting credit for bills you're already paying. Your phone, utilities, rent, and insurance. I wish dating kind of worked like that. Connect your bank account, add those on-time payments to your Experian credit file, and your FICO score updates right away. You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points.

26:05See App Store or Experian.com for details. Results will vary. Not all payments are boost eligible. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use Experian credit files, and not all lenders use scores impacted by Experian boost. See Experian.com for details.

26:27Yes, the skin on the neck and the skin around the eyes are slightly different. But if you are time poor, if you are on a budget, if you are thinking, I want to, you know, just get the best products in the right areas, it's also the same to the back of your hands. Use all the same products. So that would be a cleanser, that would be a serum and that would be an SPF and a moisturizer if needed. Those four steps, you're doing it on your face anywhere just do it on the neck so so amazing neck sarah jostle well thank you i'm turning 40 in two weeks so so you're getting ready for the big day i'm getting ready yeah well you're looking great um so we've got the neck covered we've got teenage yes i would say just very quickly on the neck in terms of treatments um because people always ask me about this you can do great things with tightening with lasers around the neck area um so i would say radio frequency lasers um some Some people can do Botox to do, yeah, almost like the vertical lines that people might have Botox in it, in the neck.

27:28But again, it goes back to where it was. So unless you're going to be able to do it regularly, it's quite an expensive route to start if you're going to need to stop. What you could do is say it's before a big birthday or something like that. You could do it as a one-off. But just know treatments like Botox, they're not helping what's going on behind the scenes. It's just almost like a mask and the mask will drop. Sorry, that sounds quite depressing. So Claudia Mahoney said... Claudia, we love you. Claudia and I worked together at Glamour magazine. You certainly did. And she loves you. And she sent about three different messages for you.

28:03But this is the one I've picked out. She said, as we head to our 50s, am I right to use Hourglass or should I be looking at heavier foundation coverage? I mean, I still love my tinted moisturiser by Laura Mercier as my day-to-day go-to kind of foundation. What's your take on whether we're going heavier, we should be going lighter? Yeah, so this is a bit similar to another question that you asked me in the sense of it's not really by your age because we've all got different skin types through life. So it's hard for me to say at 50 use this because you've all got different concerns. But I know Claudia and I know her, she's got gorgeous skin.

28:42I would say the main thing is obviously as we get older, and we have fine lines, or we might have slightly crepeier skin or slightly drier skin, firstly, think about what you're doing underneath your foundation. That is step number one. Because if your skin is dry underneath, it doesn't really matter what foundation you use. It is going to look dry and cakey. Number two, as we get older, I would say, don't use your foundation to conceal. It's the biggest mistake people make. They put it all over trying to conceal that little mark of pigmentation or that red spot. Use a tinted moisturizer. So, for example, one that I think is brilliant at the moment is the Milk Tinted Hydrogel Tinted Moisturizer or something like that.

29:27It's blue. Milk is the brand Milk Makeup. It is so dewy and light and creamy, but it covers. so I would say use something like that and then go in with a concealer stick like the hourglass foundation stick exactly where it's needed if Claudia is using her hourglass foundation stick everywhere and she looks great I do remind people you don't have to change I think because they're seeing me talk about products all the time me and everyone else I'm not taking full blame for that but you know because they're seeing that they think I need to update if it's working stick with what you're doing. That is great advice.

30:05You're right. There's that feeling of pressure that oh gosh I'm approaching a landmark age should I be doing things differently? Well you look great. You look great. But there are so many incredible tinted moisturisers out there now to play around with. Bare Minerals is a great brand. They've just brought out this foundation stick. If you're time poor and you're just doing it on the go or you're about to start filming here today Gabby you could take something like that and just put it on exactly where it's needed. Pat, pat, pat. Buff, buff, buff and you're done. There's an amazing concealer as you were talking about concealers there that disappeared off the market and I hate it when this happens with products a roadie old one that all the makeup artists that I work with love Was it the banana?

30:40It was the one that was in the little compact and it was hard it was like so as opposed to a liquidy one Yes and I had two and I left my makeup purse on the back seat of a cab I know and both were in the makeup purse and that was it Gone I went on eBay I went everywhere thinking there must be an end of line but when a product is so beloved by the industry Why do they disappear? It happens all the time. And I wish I knew sometimes there's a few things that could be happening in the background. They could be updating the formulas. They could be seeing that it's not selling as well as something else.

31:13So they're going to merge it into something if it's within a bigger brand. So what you'll sometimes, and by that, I mean one of the big houses. So a lot of the time people don't know that L 'Oreal owns YSL, Giorgio Armani, L 'Oreal Paris, Maybelline, Garnier. It's all under one roof who owns it. So they might think, right, well, that's gone. That whole brand is gone, for example. So let's bring that one hero product into an Armani. Right. So there is a lot of that going on as well. But that does not help you on your mission. You'd have to really know about the industry to know where that product's going, wouldn't you?

31:46Oh, yeah. So it's, yeah, it's a matter of kind of. But if you want your replacement, the Dior Forever Foundation stick is basically that. It's a stick, but it's solid and you can take it and just whack it on anywhere. And it's a bit like a Photoshop for the face. There's a video of me doing it on my Instagram in the car to which someone replied saying, why do you always have to do your makeup in the car? And I was like, because I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old and where else would you like me to do my makeup? But you'll see in this video, it photoshops the face in quite an incredible way.

32:17We refer to a lot of brands that are quite pricey at one end of the spectrum. We've also done some kind of in the middle. There are good products. You can go into Boots and you can find some really good products to put into your makeup bag, I think, aren't there? Absolutely. So give us a couple of those hero products for you that are at the lower end of the market. For sure. So I've got a section in the book called the High Street Hit List. And I basically say that that was one of the harder sections to do because you're actually spoilt for choice now. So that edit is really, really hard. So Maybelline mascaras, I would probably choose them over anything expensive to this day.

32:55Makeup brushes. There are so many expensive makeup brushes out there. And I would still pick a brand called Morphe, M-O-R-P-H-E. They are the most stunning quality. They work so well. They just blend everything. And most of them are around the£10 mark, which is brilliant. I love Revolution, which is in Superdrug. Again, you would just never, ever know that price point. Rimmel, eyeliners, probably some of the best out there. Lipsticks. Again, really hard, I think, because longevity is hard. When you're looking at high street lipsticks, they tend to look great, but then they tend to start gathering around the sides, except Kiko.

33:37K-I-K-O. The Smart Fusion range is the one I always rave about. So if you love neutral nudes, Smart Fusion have the most brilliant lipsticks. Do you still use or would you use lip coat to keep a lipstick on? I mean, I don't use it because I think lipsticks in today's market last exceptionally well. But India Knight, who I do, who also writes for Sunday Time Style, we did a talk the other night and somebody asked, you know, where's Lip Coat? Lip Coat's still there. Yeah. And it's still doing its thing and people still love it. It's my mum and my mum used to use Lip Coat. Yeah, no, people still absolutely love it.

34:15But now with technology today, there's just lipsticks last. Amen, hallelujah. They don't all end up on your glass. Yeah, exactly. People talk about night creams. HFK82 says, what is the best night cream? What is a night cream? So this is something I upset a lot of brands with, especially in the book, because I don't use a night cream. You can use the same moisturiser in the morning and the evening. As long as it hasn't got SPF, they should be absolutely fine to use day and night. The only thing that separates a night cream from other creams is it definitely won't have SPF in it because you're going to sleep in it.

34:55And the only other thing you might consider is if your night cream is very rich, you might find it doesn't sit that well under makeup and you might want to use something lighter. But otherwise, you do not need a separate day and night cream. It's quite an old-fashioned marketing concept that brands still have because people still want a night cream, but you don't need it. And also, I think back to my granny, they didn't really have a morning regime did they? I know. So what they put on at night remember astral and things like that? Yes of course. That would be the night cream and then in the morning it would be a wash and go wouldn't it?

35:32Totally I mean I read my comments every Sunday in my column and there is always one person who's like you can just use ponds cream and leave it there or just use soap and water and I always say to people if you're happy with your skin and that's working for you you use soap and water but how great that in today's world if you have if you have got pigmentation or you are dealing with acne you can now treat it you can now yeah you don't need to spend fortunes you know trying to get the answer and you don't need to guess that's what i always say my book is there to help people not guess growing up for a lot of women it would be firming cream youth in a jar lifting cream and no one knew what the ingredients were but this this generation we call it skin intellectuals and i quite like that now you'll say well what's in it that's going to firm and what's in it that's going to lift and now we'll say well that's vitamin c and that's your retinoid and that's tranexamic acid and you now understand those words to know what's actually working in your skincare and it's not a filtered lovely world of adverts going use me you know there's more science behind it and ingredients there people have a thirst for that I think as well.

36:43A few questions have come through about LEDs and those masks. Do you use one of them? My husband bought me one at Christmas. In fact, my husband's Christmas kind of bounty for me this year was suspiciously anti-age, anti-aging. I don't like that expression. You don't like that expression, I know, but you know those kinds of... I mean, I get why it exists. Yeah. I always say that. And I have had red light therapy in facials, right? So I was kind of... I did use it quite religiously in the first few months of the year and I've done a bit of psychosomatic. I felt my skin was really good. We've been moving around the place at the moment and I've not been using it.

37:17Do they work? Should I keep using it? I think you are pretty much the same as the rest of the nation. You use it a bit in the beginning and then it falls out of your routine. So number one, I would say, on behalf of all skin experts, never choose a mask over your skincare products because there is a lot of that. It's like, well, I'm using this now. Still cleanse, still treat, still moisturize, still SPF. This is very much nice to have. So an LED mask, there will often be different colours. You'll see red, you'll see blue. Blue is my favourite of them all, and that is for acne-prone skin. And that really works?

37:53When I say it really works, you still have to be careful with that because it can, it can work, and it can help with inflammation and redness with an acne-prone skin. But you are still better off using skincare. So here's the thing with an LED mask. If you are someone that's going to use it every day, it's going to commit to 15 minutes, not one minute. If you have bought a mask that is very close to the skin, because there are so many out there that are almost hard, and they're here, and they're not even getting to your skin. Mine's rubbery, and it sits right on the skin. Yeah, it's quite literally sitting on the skin.

38:30If you know you are going to be that person who is consistent, and consistent is quite... Three times a week? literally the theme throughout my book i would go in more like four to five times a week and you're willing to be patient enough you know that's two months a month two months three months to see any difference then i say go for it and use it but if like me you've forgotten to put your invisalign in for like you know you you wear that just about here and there or you never check like expiration dates of products and you're rubbish at doing a cardo or your shop or whatever it is then It might not be for you.

39:07It might not be for you. That's my thing. And also remember, when you do your red light in facials, they are using a far higher strength red light than what they can legally put in your at-home LED mask. So what is the best on the market? I would say there is a brand called Zed Skin, and the woman behind it is Dr. Ifeoma Ejikemi, and she's made it. She's got an incredible clinic where she's known for her face peels, her in-clinic face peels. I really trust her and she has brought out an LED mask and I would say that is probably the best. But we're talking hundreds of pounds. They're not cheap.

39:43And if you are spending under£100, it's not going to have a strong enough light. Yeah, if you're not going to be using it as well as regularly as you say, then really it probably is something that you'd be better off having some good facials. You're way better off doing facials and skincare. And then research brands like Current Body and Shark Beauty. Okay, I think mine's Current Body. There you go. There are more questions and there are more areas we could go into, but our time is just about up. But I think it's fair to say, Sarah, that you can read your book and get even more information and everything we've covered pretty much is within the book as well, isn't it?

40:19A lot of those questions are answered within the book. Yeah, so the whole premise of the book is there is skin, makeup, hair, fake tan, hair removal, fragrance, cosmetic treatments. And I very much know that most people I meet apologise before they ask me. I'm so sorry to ask, but they're so embarrassed to ask about beauty that I hope this answers all your questions. And I talk to teenagers. I talk to new mums. I talk to women going through menopause. I talk to men with receding hairline. No, you haven't done men because somebody asked me, what's Kenny, my husband's, beauty routine? Do you know what he swears by?

40:51Beef tallow. He loves a bit of beef tallow on his skin. And Bear Grylls. Bear Grylls and I had a real head-to-head on this. He was like, SPF is terrible and we should all just be using beef tallow. Oh, he uses SPF as well. Yeah, beef tallow is a real movement. and it's a very particular type of person. I mean, if you're happy to stink of... Oh no, he's got a fragrance one. Has he got a fragrance one? Yeah, he doesn't smell of beef. Well, a lot, but you'd be surprised. It is now a movement where it's like just slap on. They like smelling of the beef. I don't know if they like it. They just believe it's excellent for the skin.

41:20I'm going to do a bit more research in this world of beef tallow because it is a movement and I know it's there. But men can use what women use and that's the truth. He uses all my products. Yeah, men's skin and women's skin are completely the same. the only difference would be facial hair and not the odd chin hair you might be dealing with ingrown hairs and things like that I feel like you need to come back maybe when you've sold a million copies of the book you'll pop up and we could do another area because honestly it has been such a popular shout out I had so many brilliant questions and you are so loved so thank you for writing the book I think it's going to be one of those books that people have on their shelves and they can pass it through the generations and everybody can use it as a reference over the years.

42:04You know, like when we were growing up, there was a cookery book. I've forgotten what it's called now. And it was before everybody had millions of cookery books. And it was like the Nigella, the original Nigella book. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's going to be that kind of book. Well, I can only pray and hope that that is the future of the book. So, yes, and I'll just say very quickly, because there will be people listening to this, that anyone who has recently gone through a cancer diagnosis, that is the person who comes to me the most, which I hate, and I wish it wasn't like that. And they are so apologetic to say they wish they didn't care about their brows or their hair loss.

42:37But that is the thing that they are struggling with. And can I help them? There is a whole section of that in the book as well. So anyone who is going through that, buy this book for them. And I hope that they find it useful. They sure will, as will everybody else who comes to you for advice and wisdom. Thank you so much, Sarah Jossel, for coming on. Thank you, Gabby Logan.

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