Why will.i.am Says Human Creativity Will Survive AI

0:01In a world that never stands still, we're there to help you act with conviction. At HSBC, we connect the people, ideas, and capital to unlock growth, backing your ambitions at every stage. So when you're planning for the next generation, strengthening your portfolio, or expanding into new markets, we're there, bringing over 160 years of experience to help you move forward. HSBC. Opening up a world of opportunity.

0:30This episode sponsored by She's Birdie. Every woman knows that feeling, and She's Birdie knows it too. The just-in-case feeling. Just in case I hear something. Just in case someone tries the door. Just in case I need to wake up fast. It's not fear, it's awareness. And Birdie Box from She's Birdie was made for exactly that. Birdie Box is a portable travel door alarm designed by She's Birdie for hotels, dorms, Airbnbs, and anywhere you're staying away from home. It installs in seconds on the doorframe, and if the door is opened, it activates a loud siren and flashing strobe to help draw attention instantly.

1:08She's Birdie, because peace of mind should check in with you. Birdie Box by She's Birdie. Visit she'sbirdie.com. That's S-H-E-S-B-I-R-D-I-E dot com. And order your Birdie Box before your next stay away from home. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, Here's the Thing, I talked to composer Mark Shaman. It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. And director Morgan Neville. Film school teaches you all the wrong things about making documentary. What do you want to say? Documentary is all about your ear.

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2:05AI is just like the world's biggest sampler. It's sampled everything. Whether it's books, language. The machine is freaking amazing. But humans are even more amazing. We made the machine. Will.i.am, musician and technologist. You don't ever worry about, like, the amount of material being scraped. They're being AI-generated versions of yours. You can accept that. You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask, are you worried that you don't own your voice? Everybody, not just musicians, every single person needs to own their data, their essence, their likeness. You've got to use your imagination and push industries to protect people in this new realm that we're in.

2:49From Bloomberg Weekend, this is The Michelle Hussain Show. I'm Michelle Hussain. It's now more than 30 years since a group came together in Los Angeles who went on to become known all over the world as the Black Eyed Peas. For that entire time, they've had the same frontman, Will.i.am, who was raised by a single mother, and in fact it is with her that his long and deep journey into music began. because when he was 14, she bought him a boombox. And by 17, he had a record deal. Since then, he has won multiple Grammys and he's produced other artists too. But what I think is really intriguing about him, certainly compared to many others in the creative industries, is his attitude not only to technology, but to AI.

3:50Essentially, he wants to be at the forefront of that change. He's founded his own tech company, FYI.AI. He teaches a college class on AI, and he believes in the capacity and the power of these tools to assist human creativity. We met in Cannes, where he was on a European tour with the Peas, and I was curious where he would put the boundaries on AI, set the parameters, if you like, to a world which many other creatives see as a threat to their rights, image, voice, ultimately, livelihoods. So here's what happened when I sat down with Will.i.am. Thank you for taking the time. Oh, no, thank you. I know you're in the middle of your tour.

4:37You know, it's like summer vacation. But it must take quite a lot out of you, no? The travel, the... No, it's not work at all. Well, that's great to know. Is everyone happy? All right. Okay. So thank you for fitting us in. Oh, thank you. You are an incredibly busy man. And you have these parallel careers, not just music, which everyone probably knows you best for, but tech with your own company, FYI AI, and the course you're leading at Arizona State University, which is also about AI. So there's loads for us to talk about. Can I tell you first the moment that stayed with me as I was preparing for this conversation?

5:13Yeah. It was watching the video for one of your songs, I'm a Bee, and you're showing the other P's a computer. But the way you're talking about it stayed with me because you're saying this artificial intelligence, this is what's going to take the P's into 3008. Yeah. And it was hearing you say artificial intelligence 16 years ago when not many people were thinking in those terms. It's like in that video, we described an LLM. It's like you take the entire English vocabulary, you take my high notes, my low notes, and the noise, and with this artificial intelligence, you type in your lyrics, and this thing produces it, sings it.

5:53So we pretty much predicted what we now know as text to music, your Udios, your Sunos of the world, your Lyrias of the world. And thank you, Professor Patrick Winston from MIT. Rest in peace, Professor Patrick Winston used to let me sit in his class from 2006, 7, 8, 9. Whenever Black at Peace would tour Boston, I would go to sit in the MIT lab. Right. Okay. He let you in, but you were interested enough to be there. And I'm wondering what made you so aware of the future and with the next stage at all of that time? Are you particularly tuned into technology and its potential and its opportunity?

6:34I like any type of tool, whether it's a synthesizer, a keyboard, a traditional piano. I like a drum machine. But then when I got my hands on my MacBook and Pro Tools, that's when I was transfixed. That's when I was like, wow, what is this world? And that aha is what made me interested in AI. like wow if I'm typing into the computer and out comes like images or sound eventually I'm going to talk to the computer and the computer's going to talk back and it's going to in that ping pong that banter that brainstorm it's going to make exactly what I have in my mind it's kind of like magic abracadabra and when you started making music back in your teens with a boombox and I I think your mom got for you.

7:28How did it feel then? Did it feel magical in its own way? Yeah, the idea of I could record something from a radio station and then put it in a separate cassette and then loop the part that I liked and then put that in the other cassette and then get the headphones, put it in the mic, and then rap into that. That, to me, was like, wow, look. Look what I can do, Ma. She's like, boy, who taught you how to do that? I'm like, I don't know. I think I probably saw somebody do it. It's like we didn't have the internet. Yes, I did come for the internet. I was there too. So we managed. Did your mom encourage you?

8:04What was her attitude to your music? Oh, so my mom always sends me like, I'll read a text message from my mom. She wrote me this. I got to scroll up. I was like, I love you, mom. Thanks for designing me. Thanks for investing in me. Thanks for developing me. Thanks for believing in me and protecting me and loving me. You drip me up and here I am. I am your will. Not because my name is Will, but also what she willed. She's like, as I always said to you, when there's a will, there's a way. And you are Will. Will keeps finding ways and answers. Just know I still believe in you. You have many levels to go.

8:42Keep dreaming, but never stop dreaming. So my mom is always like, oh, you think you finished? You ain't finished? So my mom is like the coach on the side. So she's always pushing you on. Beyond. She's the one who taught me how to like, are you here or are you still over there? Come out of that. Be here. I guess some of that must come from the fact that she had a tough time in her life herself, right? When she was raising you, times were not easy. Yeah. When you're in a nightmare, you dream out the nightmare. The way to get out of a nightmare is you manually, vividly change the dream. And then you have to work your way backward how to materialize that awesome imagination that took you out of your worry, your conundrum, your angst.

9:36And the way to get out of that angst is sometimes it's okay to have a healthy daydream. But then how do you take that dream, reverse engineer it, and make it reality? And by 17, you had a record deal. So your dreams when you were a teenager at 17, you had a massive prize in your life, something that must have been so unusual, like, you know, your peers, your community, an incredible achievement. How did it feel? So there's this guy by the name of Stefan Gordy. Stefan Gordy's dad is Barry Gordy. And he and I went to school together. So one day I come to school, like, remember that tape deck when I used to make my little tapes?

10:15Yeah. I come to school, I'm like, yo, give this to your dad. I want to get a record deal. And he was like, I can't give my dad your demo. I was like, come on, Stefan. And so when I finally got a record deal, just two years later, I eventually signed Stefan to my label, Red Fu from LMFAO Party. Rock is in the house tonight. Anyway, so one day we were sitting at the Grammys with Stefan, his dad, Barry Gordy, and then myself. and Barry Gordy's like, I want to thank you so much for believing in my son. Sign him to your label. I'm like, yo, Barry, when we were in ninth grade, I tried to give my demo to Stefan to give to you.

10:54And I grew up with his son and then signed his son to my label. How did he react when you said that to him? Oh, he told me, yeah, Stefan told me that, you know, but we were at the Grammy, so the conversation quickly changed. But it just goes to show, like, look into your dream, go to the settings and figure out how that dream actually is operating. And then reverse engineer that. You know how you could prompt GPT or Anthropic and then out comes an image? You could prompt it. You could get the right prompt. Life is the same way. You could prompt your life. And prompting your life is not words, it's people.

11:35The way you put the words together to get the prompt, the results, it's the people you put in your life to get the results. Is this what you're pouring into the course you're teaching in Arizona State? Because I know you've said that the course is called your agentic self. The agentic self. The agentic self. And so obviously there's a link to AI in that. But I think you've said that through that course you've found where the love is. Obviously a reference to one of your most famous songs. That was a stage in my life when it was the scariest stage in my life. What do I mean by that? I was scared as all hell preparing for that stage of teaching.

12:14But then also play on word stage, that was the scariest stage in my life. Because I've never done that before. We would have rehearsals and I would like not come out. People would be like, where's Will? And I would be like, I'll be there, I'll be there. And I'll call my mom. She's like, and how many people are out there waiting? I'm like, mine's like seven people out there waiting for me. And I'm like, my heart's beating fast. I don't like when my heart beats fast because then it triggers angst. She's like, what are you so nervous about? I'm like, what's going to happen if there's a smarty pants, somebody that's an expert?

12:48Sitting in the front row. What would happen if you're at a concert and somebody is really good? Are you going to give them the mic? I'm like, yeah. You're supposed to share the stage, right? I'm like, yeah. She's like, well, that's what you do in class. And so from there, I realized that I should write my chorus like a song. I have my opening monologue, what's wrong with the world mama? People living like they ain't got no mamas. I put out the problem. And then the chorus is when I open up the class for questions on my monologue. And then the second verse is the second hour. And then we do the chorus again.

13:24And the third verse is the closing. I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder as I get older, y 'all people. if there is a song that I wrote and produced that should reflect how I teach the course, it will be Where's the Love because Where's the Love is about asking questions. And then searching for that to answer to that question. Because Where's the Love is just a question song. When humanity goes wrong, people go to that song. So I'm like, oh, shucks, I've done some version of this. So Where's the Love is how I teach the course. agent itself is telling people to ask, who are you in this new world that we're living?

14:07And how much of you are you going to give to the machine? What do you hold sacred? What do you want to do with the machine? And in this case, the machine is yours. Your data is yours. There's never been a container to put your data in up until your own personal agent. You have a house, right? You don't share it with your neighbors. You wouldn't buy a house that didn't have its own restroom. So why are you sharing your AI with everybody else? But you have one of those platforms yourself, right? FYI.ai. And your data is yours. Okay. So the protection of data is important. Yeah. We can't go into your account and be like, hey, can you go into get, we can't do that.

14:47Your data is your data. Your agent is your agent. And we believe that's like, I have my immune system. I got my digestive system. These are things that are ours. Shouldn't your AI system be just as much yours as your other systems are? But then what about AI and music? Because you're an investor in AI companies, including even one of the ones that's been in its own legal battles with some of the record labels. And so I wonder where you draw the line in that. Do you worry about the volume of music nowadays, which is totally AI generated? Yeah, not everything. I come from hip hop. And if you heard a song like Pump It,

15:35I sampled that from Dick Dale, Misery Lou. And then I wrote my song on top of that. I reinforced the drums. So for me to have like a hypercriticism on AI that samples everything, when I sampled a lot of things to make my songs, that would be hypocritical. AI is just like the world's biggest sampler. It sampled everything. Whether it's books, language, I think it's not the technology that you should be like, what's going on there? It's the business model.

16:11In a world that never stands still, we're there to help you act with conviction. At HSBC, we connect the people, ideas, and capital to unlock growth, backing your ambitions at every stage. So when you're planning for the next generation, strengthening your portfolio, or expanding into new markets, we're there, bringing over 160 years of experience to help you move forward. HSBC, opening up a world of opportunity.

16:39This episode sponsored by She's Birdie. Every woman knows that feeling, and She's Birdie knows it too. The just-in-case feeling. Just in case I hear something. Just in case someone tries the door. Just in case I need to wake up fast. It's not fear, it's awareness. And Birdie Box from She's Birdie was made for exactly that. Birdie Box is a portable travel door alarm designed by She's Birdie for hotels, dorms, Airbnbs, and anywhere you're staying away from home. It installs in seconds on the doorframe, and if the door is opened, it activates a loud siren and flashing strobe to help draw attention instantly.

17:18She's Birdie, because peace of mind should check in with you. Birdie Box by She's Birdie. Visit she'sbirdie.com. That's S-H-E-S-B-I-R-D-I-E.com. And order your Birdie Box before your next day away from home. Shop the Sherwin-Williams sale and get 30 % off Duration, Superdeck, and Woodskates products August 14th through the 24th. Whether you're refreshing your interior or exterior, we've got the colors to bring your vision to life. And with delivery, getting everything to your door is easier than ever. Shop online to have it delivered or visit your neighborhood Sherwin-Williams store. Click the banner to learn more.

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18:13When people, including colleagues of yours in the industry, other high-profile figures say AI is an assault on human creativity, you don't agree? No, not at all. Because you're boxing creativity to how an industry told you you should create. Before the record industry, what was the song? What was everybody singing in 1226? 1326? What was the village freaking melody? There would have been something. No, no, no, but what was it? I have no idea. Okay, in 1526, after the printing press, the first industry, which is publishing, 1449 came the printing press. And from there, we got our heroes like Bach and Beethoven.

18:57They were the superstars of that industry. And from 1526, 1626, 1726, 18, 400 freaking years of the printing press. No record industry. And the way that music was spread out was printing music so that conductors could conduct. And violins were sold. Violas were sold. Basilicas were built. No amplifiers, just amphitheaters. And then the record industry came. You know what people said about the record industry? What do you mean? You're going to bring the song into the house? No orchestra? We've been here before. But what came because of the record player? The record industry. And you're assuming that AI is supposed to mimic the recording.

19:38No, it's not. It's supposed to create a new industry. New types of experiences are supposed to come. Not just recordings. Recordings are for the record industry. You're supposed to use AI to dream up the new experience. It's just right now, what's the first thing they can think of? Well, let's do recordings. This is where creative is supposed to be like, oh, oh, oh, this is the new playing field? Do you mean like it's almost like a call to action for better creativity or? Okay, I don't give a f*** how awesome AI is. It cannot outpace my creativity. It's not imagining. It's a regurgitation of imaginations.

20:12So people are afraid like, oh my gosh, it's going to, it's going to, it's going to what? It's going to mimic? It's going to reproduce what's already been produced? I believe that critical thinking and like rinsing out your imagination and being purposeful are AI-proof pathways to be of service. Music will always be. And even in AI, with this onslaught of like, how much songs do AI produce every single year? Every single week, every single month, every single quarter, every single year, there's more AI music than human-made music. There's more AI on the internet. The internet, the way it used to be, is not the way it is now.

20:53There's just as many, if not more, bots online than there are people. So this means live events, Broadway theater, real performance. When I say real, I'm talking about human sweat, human rinse out is going to be the most sought after, valuable form of entertainment. At least that's what I hope. Because damn, the machine is freaking amazing. but humans are even more amazing. It's no longer going to be about good. It's going to be about values. It's going to be like, what is, what's precious? AI is great. It's fast. But human, like, sweat. We got to value that just as much. You don't ever worry about, like, the amount of material being scraped or your voice or your likeness.

21:49They're being AI-generated versions of yours. You can accept that? No, no, no. You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask, are you worried that you don't own your voice? Do you worry that there's no likeness and essence industry? You know, I have a credit card. I have a credit card. 100 years ago, this didn't exist. 50 years ago, American Express didn't exist the way it exists right now. There wasn't digits and this freaking little chip. That didn't exist. So what is the equivalent of that for my essence and likeness? So everybody, not just musicians, every single person needs to own their data, their essence, their likeness.

22:33There needs to be industries. You've got to use your imagination and push to have industries to protect people in this new realm that we're in. Here's another thing, too. One thing you said about AI music. humans need their own file. Right now, AI music and AI video shares the same MP3, MP4 file as humans. That ain't right. It takes AI seconds to make something and it's valued the same. Why is that? Why should that? Why should an MP3 that an AI made be valued the same fraction of a penny than somebody's song that took them weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and months. But how can you validate human sweat to make something?

23:25That means we need a lived experience file. Like drummers are going to drum with a freaking watch. And they're going to have biometrics that is connected to that file. That biometrics is connected to the location and time and perspiration. And so when that file is up on a DSP, it should be worth more than an MP3 file. Who's to say that an AI song is worth the same as a human song? In order to do that, human files need to be sacred to human creation. And let AI keep MP3s and waves and AIFFs. So that's an argument for better labeling. Is it like clear so that we all know what we're getting? Let AI be AI.

24:16But what if I just want to go in a studio with humans and create? Is it going to be the same file? And why should it? Why should it be the same file and why should it be worth the same? It should be worth more. Give more incentives for people to create human-made stuff. And let AI be AI. That's great. You need something that differentiates it from the other stuff. And that file, I call it the P-O-L, the proof of life file. So this song, dot P-O-L. Right now on DSPs, it's whereisthelove.wave or whereisthelove.mp3 or mp4 on YouTube. We need a whereisthelove.pol because that has human biometrics connected to it and a location and a timestamp on a ledger.

25:05And it should be worth more than just compute output. I remember when Where Is The Love came out. It was a couple of months after the Iraq War. We wrote it after 9-11. And then the song came out a couple of months after the Iraq War. You're right. And today, how do you feel about this moment when there's another war that the U.S. has been involved in in the Middle East? Have you been thinking about the song again in that context? Or when it's part of your tour and your performances today? Do you think people are putting that lens on it in 2026? You could use that for any time there's human error.

25:52It's a prescription for, like, reflection every time there's human error. We could sing Where's the Love to ourselves to make sure we're on the right path. And what do you think of when you perform it now? Do you think of then or the present moment? Oh, no, no. We think of the present. We reflect on the things that are happening in the world. It's what keeps us grounded in the work that we do in the community. My foundation is rooted in the words that we believe in and where's love. I Am Angel Foundation is rooted in that so that folks in communities that have been neglected have pathways to success.

26:31Well, finally, what gives you the most joy today? Is it making music or is it the teaching and the being part of, like, imparting everything you're passionate about to a younger generation? The thing that gives me the most joy is moments like when I ideated on the P.O.L. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, that don't exist. And we should have it. I just dreamt some up that don't exist. Like that type of stuff. And pushing my mind to like dream up the undreamt. And landing on some version of like, wait, I love that. I love creating at high speed, not regurgitating what I used to do. And is your mom going to let you keep on the tracks you're on?