'We wanted to build a brand that was based on a collective perspective': R+Co president Dan Langer on growing a luxury haircare brand

0:28Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Modern Retail Podcast. hair care space. I'm really excited. But Dan, how are you doing? I'm good. Thanks, Cale. Thank you for having me. And hello, everyone who's listening. Well, thank you. First, let's start with who you are. So I was doing some research. You've been doing retail for quite a while now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've been at Victoria's Secret and Express and a few other companies, right? Yeah, I started my career always in fashion and beauty and really spent the last 30 years working for some of the best brands in the world. I've been very fortunate and I've been very fortunate to help build many of them.

1:06So that's my background working in fashion and beauty. Have you always been on the, or like, what was your focus on the marketing side of things, the brand building side? What would you say your forte over the last many years has been? For me, I always loved building brands. I think there's a creative element there, a real sense of pride when something is built from scratch and you see it grow and you see it develop. So for me, there's a huge, just intrinsic reward for creativity and creation. So I've been very fortunate in my career to be able to participate in that a few times as brands go from an idea to being something in the marketplace.

1:54Got it. It seems like that is the thesis behind Luxury Brands Group. Am I wrong? That you're just kind of trying to build things and have them balloon from there? Well, Luxury Brand Partners is an incredible company because it really is a group of us that have been working together for over two decades and have worked together at multiple brands and have started many brands together. So we started together at a brand called Bumble and Bumble. Then we all came back together again to start a brand called Orbe. Then we started a brand called Arnco and IGK. And LBP really is, I would say, part incubator, part operator.

2:34We love to start brands. We'd love to ideate. But then we grow those brands and we partner with artists. So each brand has a unique perspective in the category based on their, based on the artist's perspective and work with them in order to bring their dreams to fruition. Let's talk then about Arnco, which is your primary focus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the history of Arnco? How did it start? And, you know, you said you've partnered with artists to make this aesthetic, this branding. How has that all worked? Arnco is an incredible hair brand. and it started 10 years ago. We want to build a brand that was based on a collective perspective.

3:18Up until that point, most brands in the space, in the category, were based on a singular perspective, a single artist. And we thought, what if we put together the best hairdressers in the world to debate and collaborate on what products education should be? Invariably, you're going to get this incredible result because you have the best in class in any category, whether it's the best person for editorial, best person for salons, best person for education, collaborating and debating what products should be like. And that's what we embarked on doing. And that's what we did. We have a huge collective of the top hairdressers in the world that are influencing their respective fields working with us to develop products and education.

4:04And it's been an incredible 10 years. We really have built something that is embracing the culture of hairdressing and speaks to hairdressers in any part of the industry, whether it is the salon, whether it is editorial, whether it is celebrity, whether it is social media, in part because the brand is created by that community. So that's where it started and that continues to evolve. The beautiful thing about a collective, obviously, is that you can always add to it. So while we started off with a few key founders like Guerin and Howard McLaren, who were each kind of rock stars in their respective fields, over time you add to it depending on what's going on in fashion and beauty at the moment.

4:56And I'm proud to say we have a group of about 30 different hairdressers that we work with as part of that collective that really help influence everything that we do. And again, help give that perspective to the products and to the brand and to the line. So that way it's always hairdresser first. I want to go deeper into that because I think that's really fascinating. So A, how do you choose when you're going to add someone new to the collective? Is that just there's a general zeitgeisty professional out there and you think that they would be right? and then B, what is the actual participation and how does that manifest?

5:30I don't know if there's necessarily a rule of thumb to how we add to the collective. We're in this fortunate position of having been in the industry for a long time, over three decades, where we know many people in the industry and we're always having conversations and we have friendships. And so I think a lot of it is organic depending on what we're doing or who is doing things that are interesting or who has incredible ideas at that moment. So we're always in dialogue and conversations with different hairdressers, mainly because they're our friends and they're part of our own community. So I don't think there's necessarily a firm strategy on that, unless we're building a new category.

6:15So you mentioned in your opening remarks that we just launched Orange Color, which is our professional hair color line. and we wanted to build that out with the same philosophy of our heritage line, Arnco, which was involving a collective so that way every shade in the line could be best in class. So we could have the person who was expert in blondes influencing the blondes, the person who was influencing the reds be the top in the world in terms of coloring redheads, a person who is known for vivids influencing those shades and so on. So we really kind of built this incredible group of hair colorists, again, blending editorial, celebrity salon together.

7:02So we had different perspectives because at the end of the day, it has to work in the salon and behind the chair. And so that was a real treat to build that team. So when did the first inclination of Aaron Keller come about? Was it always in the pipeline? Like, we're going to expand into color, given that we work in professional salons, this is a natural extension? Or how did that come to be? It came to be because salons really are our heritage. For that entire three decades, I was telling you about, we've been heavily involved with salons and working with salons. And again, over time, they become partners, friends, confidants.

7:40And there's two parts to the salon business often, right? There's the cutting and styling, and then there's the hair color. and we want to be able to provide them with a full complement of products to help them support their business. So we've been working on hair color for a long time actually, for over five years because we want to perfect it. We want to do it in an Aronco way. Historically hair color has been kind of a secret in salons. Most customers don't know the brand of hair color that's being used on them. And as a result, we want to leverage the fact that we had a great stylist awareness, salon awareness, customer awareness to make our hair color a little bit different.

8:24One of the key tenets of it is actually being requested by end consumers. So, you know, so we started building out this hair color to be best in class, to be the highest performance, but also focus on things that were really important to hair colorists and stylists and salon owners. So when we embarked on the project, the first thing we did was we interviewed hundreds of hair colorists. We asked them point blank, what would their dream line be? And we took all of that feedback and built it into our plan for what color was. And two things that I think are interesting about this line, aside from it being the highest performance line, you know, I think that exists in the marketplace is that it is focused on stylists and consumer wellness.

9:10So all the formulas, as an example, are fragrance-free, vegan, cruelty-free, sulfate-free. So really focusing on that kind of social consciousness and wellness element of the world. And it's extremely important to salon owners and stylists. Removing one of the key allergens, as an example, for someone who's working with a product all day was something we were very proud of. The second part of that was actually focused on sustainability. And I'm super proud to say that this line is probably the most sustainable hair color line that exists, again, in the marketplace. From a packaging perspective, all of the products are using PCR, recycled aluminum, recycled papers, really kind of focused on the impact of the environment as well as to the salon.

10:05So stylists and colors are very cognizant of the amount of product they use and the amount of packaging that they use. You can imagine if you're using, if you're doing 10 heads of hair a day, you're using, you know, quite a few tubes of color. And so we really want to integrate that into the line, because it was important to us, it's important to the world. But it was also very important to one of our key constituents, which was stylists and salon owners. So those are two ways kind of that we innovated on this line. Given that you're focused so much on sort of the B2B, the stylist community, stylists have been around for a while.

10:41A lot of them have the products that they've used for years, if not decades. So how do you go about getting them to use your product, know your product, and getting that sort of scale in the salon community? It's a great question. And color is one of those things that once you've used it for a while, it's very sticky. You get to know it, you know your palate, you know how to use it. And stylists and colors tend to be extremely loyal to the hair color that they use. For us, there's a few ways that we tackle it. One is education. We have a hugely robust education program that teaches color. It's agnostic to brand.

11:24It's about technique and it's about formulation and it's about understanding kind of trend and fashion. but education is a huge part of it. I think the other part of it is actually innovating in the category. I think people are always open to innovation and things like fragrance-free and sustainability are things that are so top of mind for many of our customers that they actually will consider looking at another line. I think the third part of it is actually having it be fun. Stylists and colorists and salon owners, this is a fun industry and people like to have fun. And so I think we made something that not only worked incredibly well, but was a pleasure to use.

12:07And it was beautiful to look at and it was high design and really fit into the ethos and the aesthetic of the top salons around the country. So I think there's a few ways that we interact with salons. But I think it really focuses again on those elements. and not to mention it again, but high performance. If the product doesn't work, it's not going to be taken in by a salon. It's not going to have longevity. So that was something that we obsessed over, was making sure that it worked. And again, it really comes back to the best performing products. If the product doesn't work, it's not going to have longevity in a salon.

12:53and circling back to our discussion about the collective, a big part of that was bringing in these shade experts in their respective category and working with them to help influence those shades so that way they were perfect and they were of the moment and they were on trend and they were something that was worthy of that person. You walk down the street and you see them and you go, hey, that hair looks amazing. Where did you get it done? Going back to the collective, my next question, which is, In terms of the initial marketing at launch, how much of that is focused on the educational portion you talked about, you know, going to salon, saying we have this new product?

13:30How much of it is based on the collective talking about it with friends, but also socializing it on their platforms? What are you focusing on just to sort of make it so that you're hitting the ground running? I think our marketing is in a big part linked to salons. So our salons are really the best salons around the country. We work with the marquee locations in every single zip code. And that's where the awareness happens. You know, they've got customers coming in. They've got stylists who are best in class. And that's where the awareness comes for the most part to the end consumer because they're trying it there.

14:11They're getting exposed to it. They're seeing it. They're seeing the performance of it. They're living with it for six to eight weeks in between visits. So I think that's a huge part of our marketing. It doesn't hurt that the collective also does the top celebrities and influencers in the world. And so as a result, the general population is seeing the end result of our color. And we're tagging it and we're creating formulas around it. And we're creating how-tos around those moments. So I think it really is kind of working on both sides of the equation. Right. There is a primary awareness happens at the salon level, but there also is kind of this incredible umbrella of awareness and visibility that happens just by nature of being out there and visible in the world and not being upfront about what the color is that's being used.

15:08We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. You mentioned how sustainability is a very big part of our in color. I know, I think it was a couple of years ago, I'm just looking at some links before, you had another diffusion line, Arnco Bleu. I just wanted to ask about the overall demand that you're seeing from stylists or even their end consumers about sustainability in hair care. Is there a growing call for that, or is that just you're trying to lead the charge so that more people are aware? I think it's both. So a couple of years ago, we did launch a line called R &Co Blue, which was our couture collection of R &Co that was really focused on sustainability, performance, and design.

15:55It really was an uncompromised line where you could have everything. We liken it to an electric Rolls-Royce or an electric Bentley. You can have design, you can have performance, and you can have respect for the environment. So I think it's both. I think on one side, of course, it's becoming, I think, more prevalent in the consumer mindset. And there is a huge awareness around it. But when we were doing it, that wasn't the primary reason. The primary reason was because we believed in it. And we wanted to lead the charge. And we really pushed the envelope on Blue, where it took packaging and products to a place that hadn't been done before.

16:39Again, if you look at Blue, all of the packaging is 100 % post-consumer recycled plastics, 100 % post-consumer recycled aluminum, 100 % post-consumer recycled papers. Everything is recyclable. We have a partnership with One Tree Planted. It really was kind of a huge passion project to see how far we could push sustainability in our line and then have that create awareness in the communities that we work with. Did that plan as you wanted it to? Like after launching that, are you seeing more people call for that? Was that what led to some of the decisions you made with R in Color? I don't think it necessarily led to the decisions in R and Color, because I think we would do it even if it wasn't a commercial success.

17:28I think it's something that's innate within our own personalities. We like to have our brands reflect kind of how we run our lives and the things that we respect and how we want to leave the world for our children. And I think a big part of it was actually also kickstarting the momentum within our industry. I'll give you an example. At the time, buying recycled plastics was more expensive because there was not a supply for it. So if we can create a virtuous circle of using recycled plastics and then having the products be recyclable, then we're almost eliminating the need to create new resources and pull new things from the ground.

18:15So again, by taking the lead on it, maybe we could actually create a marketplace for these recycled plastics that suddenly would make them available to more people, bring the cost down and make them more prevalent across the entire marketplace. There's very few times that we're actually proud to be copied. You know, we don't love being copied, but this is one of those times where we're actually proud and happy if we're copied, because I think the global impact of that across not Not only our industry, but the world is far greater than our own kind of micro perspective of the world. You said earlier that, you know, when you go into a new direction or, you know, you launch a new type of product like HairColor, it's because of the collective, you know, said there's a need for that.

19:01Can you just go into, like, how often does this happen? Or, you know, do you have a product roadmap in terms of where you want to expand to? Or is it just more when there's a need, you'll begin looking into it? Again, great question, Cale. I have to think about how to answer this without divulging any trade secrets. But I think it's a combination, really. We work daily with these collective members, right? We're doing education, we're on set, we're doing shoots. and invariably we're kind of always on the forefront of what's trending or what's happening because we're doing a lot of editorial, which is happening six months before it becomes, you know, kind of the norm.

19:47So I think we have a great kind of perspective and insight into where the marketplace is going and what the needs are. So I think it's really a combination of both of those. We do have a roadmap, right? We plan out years in advance on where we think the white spaces are or where we think there may be a need for salons. So we're very much salon first. It really starts with the professional and what their needs are. Got it, got it. But the second part of it is we do listen to our customers, whether they be the collective or whether they be the salons. And so we hear live the ideas that they have or what they think is missing.

20:35And that's the beautiful thing about actually distributing directly to these salons and partnering with them directly, is that we have such a close connection and such a close relationship that the feedback doesn't stop, good or bad. And we're constantly getting calls, emails, DMs, and just have a very open community about sharing ideas and what the needs are. This might be a stupid question just because I don't know. Like, I don't know the intricacies of hair care. So apologies. But I just want to know in terms of production. You have beautiful hair for those of you who are listening to this podcast.

21:10Kale has a beautiful head of hair and has a super well-groomed beard. If I could describe him so the audience could picture what's going on right now, it would be mind-blowing. Well, thank you. You're making me blush. So here's my dumb question because of my unkempt mane. Like, what did you have to invest in, in terms of the production for hair color compared to your more hero products, you know, like shampoos, etc.? Did you have to get new chemicals, get new facilities? Like, how much did you have to expand that, I guess, scientific and production prowess? Creating color was a huge endeavor. It's a completely different brand, right?

21:48So we really have three brands under the Arnco umbrella. We have Arnco, we have Arnco Blue, and we have Arncolor. and it's a completely different process, a completely different approach to education, completely different customer, right? If you think about it, the customer is primarily salon owners and colorists. It's not really the end consumer ever buying it. They may request it, but they're not necessarily the ones who are creating the purchase or the purchase intent. So it was a completely different endeavor, and it was a large endeavor, and it was something that we really worked on to perfect over the five years.

22:28We partnered with a whole host of kind of experts and craftspeople around the world. We're creating our color in Italy, so really tapping into the best formulators in the world around colors and shading. and we invested a ton of time in terms of not only time but team and effort and process in order to bring it to life and I'm super proud of what we brought out it's very rare I think for a color brand of this magnitude to launch into the marketplace it's a fully articulated color line of permanent semis, demis, lightening systems, accessories, to really provide everything that the salon needs.

23:19So it was a big endeavor. And we're super pleased with the results. And thankfully, the salons have been loving it as well. So I think we've really created something special. That's great. I wanted to zoom out and just talk a little bit more about the overall salon business and what you're seeing if there is sort of an evolution. Like, do you find that over the last 10 years of being Arnco, has it been different ways to reach different salons? Or has it been generally the same in terms of who you're trying to talk to, who you're trying to, you know, have sell your products? I feel like with the social media influencers, different things like that, you probably have more touch points with their end consumer than you might have 10 years ago.

24:06Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd love to hear just sort of what you're seeing with those dynamics. I think the Salon Channel is an incredible group of business owners. These are all, for the most part, small business owners that have a passion for what they do, which is doing hair, providing services to their community, and building teams. And I think it's really one of the few industries that I don't necessarily think can be displaced by the internet or online. You still, for the most part, don't want your computer cutting or coloring your hair. right do you want to go to an expert and the beautiful thing about stylists is that they really are the tastemaker and the fashion influencer in many people's lives right there for most of us they're you know the coolest people that we know they know all the best restaurants all the best music they they know fashion and so they become kind of this anchor in our life, especially around our beauty and fashion regimens.

25:11So I think you'll always have people going into the salon every six to eight weeks to get their hair cut or their hair colored. Now, of course, social media has an influence on that. I don't think it's necessarily outside of the salon that we're divorced from that. I think the reality is those stylists in those salons have their own incredible followers and fan bases, and they are the micro-influencers, if you will, within their own consumer's life, right? And so social media allows them to stay in contact with their customer every day instead of just every six to eight weeks, commenting on their customer's hair, liking it, providing suggestion, sharing their work.

25:55And so I think it really is kind of an incredible way to actually extend the salon outside of the physical location into the lives of the customers 24-7. And what we've seen is actually a lot of stylists embracing social media, their creative culture that loves Instagram, TikTok, any type of visual medium, and use those mediums in order to speak to their customers. We actually created this incredible program called R &Co Love, which is our salon affiliate program that allows these great opportunities for salons and stylists to monetize their social media and their online following by allowing these opportunities for them to sell the products that they're using and are highlighting through linking, where we're doing all of the fulfillment, but they're actually capturing the retail sale for us.

26:51So again, of course, the business evolves. But I think the foundation of this business is the salon and the stylist and that connectivity to their client who is sitting in their chair and that trusted partnership and relationship between stylist and client. Yes, I was reading about the affiliate program. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that launched in 2019, right? Yeah, we launched it right at the start of COVID. Yeah. I mean, that's a time when people are at home and need to buy their products probably through social media. A, how has that evolved if it has at all? Or is it just generally the same as it was, what, three years ago?

27:30And B, it gives sort of a hint that you're at least thinking about having a focus on selling more of your products to consumers, maybe not directly because these are coming through the affiliate programs of the people at the salon. But like, is that, are you thinking more about trying to reach the end users more so? And has this helped aid that process? I think the program, of course, has evolved over the years. I think at the start of the program, it was really this incredible stopgap to supply and support the clients of salons in a time where they couldn't get to their stylists in salons, right?

28:10COVID and the pandemic was a time where people were focused on wellness and self-care, and they were using masks, and they were taking care of themselves and actually trying new things with their hair, especially in this Zoom world where it really is kind of what people are focusing on, right? You're looking from the neck up, so hair became, especially the front of your hair, much more important to the general consciousness. But it's, of course, evolved, And now I think it's actually become just entrenched as part of the retail opportunities that a salon has to support their clients in between visits.

28:48The reality is a client is coming to a salon, spending a significant amount of their disposable income on a great haircut, a great color. It's also imperative to look great in between visits. You can't just go home and the next day don't know how to recreate that look that your stylist made for you. So I think it really works together. Of course, the awareness is there. The awareness as a result of being on social media or sharing a how-to or sharing a recommendation or sharing an award winner boosts the awareness of the product outside of the salon. But again, because we're working so closely with those salons and the stylists, it really comes back to that particular business or that particular artist on how they're servicing their customers.

29:37So it's a little bit of a different approach. It really is kind of helping those couple thousand partners across the United States expand their businesses beyond the four walls. Would you ever try to focus on channels other than salons or is salons always going to be our and co's bread and butter? I think salons are really our heritage and they're our partners and we love salons. I think the reality is the customer shopping behavior has changed over the last 20 or 30 years, right? Customers tend to shop where it's convenient for them. They're not necessarily waiting for the six to eight weeks in order to visit a certain place to buy something.