From the pulpit to the political arena

0:00This message comes from LexisNexis. Meet LexisNexis Protege, AI built for how legal teams and professionals work. Research, analyze, draft, and verify work you can defend. Protege is AI held to the standard of law. The midterm map is starting to take shape. Concerns about AI are impacting how people vote, and some Democratic candidates running in Republican states are emphasizing their ties to religion in interesting ways. We'll get into all of it and more in our weekly roundup.

0:32It's the NBR Politics Podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And a big welcome back to Domenico, who was away for a couple of months. It's really nice to have you back. Thank you. Yeah. Welcome back. Parental leave. So it's been it's been a nice a nice time away. Now that you might be getting just a little bit more sleep, we're going to jump right into how the midterm map is shaping up. And I want to start with the state of play here. I mean, if we're looking at an election held today in the House, how is this looking for Democrats right now?

1:04Well, if you're just looking in raw terms when it comes to the House itself, the nice thing about being away for a few months is that it's given me a bit of a bigger picture sort of view as I sort of try to take in the landscape. And not a whole lot has changed in the House. I mean, there are certainly things have tipped more in Democrats' direction. You see a handful of seats move from solid into the likely category, according to the Cook Political Report, some from likely to lean, lean to toss up, all in Democrats' direction. You're seeing a dozen or more seats doing that. But overall, the landscape hasn't tipped a lot when it comes to the House.

1:43When you look at the Cook Political Report's projection, it's only about five to 15 seats right now that they see Democrats picking up. That certainly would be enough to put Democrats over the edge to win the House and pick it up. But it's looking like a narrow majority like we've seen with Republicans. Of course, unless things change over the next month within the Republican Party, sort of not being able to stem the bleeding in many places, then it could wind up being a higher number. But still, it's not looking like it will be an overwhelming wave. And there's a few reasons for that, right? I mean, the fact is Republicans have been able to insulate themselves when it comes to redistricting quite significantly.

2:23The Democratic Party is still very unpopular. And it's just not like 2018 where a lot of those districts were in more competitive places. The districts that are competitive right now are a lot of them in Trump-1 districts. Yeah. Well, let's switch to the other chamber where like redistricting is not a factor, the Senate. Are things consistent there or are we seeing some swings as we get closer to the election? Yeah, the Senate has been a much bigger story as far as it moving more. I mean, Cook Political Report, when you analyze their data, six seats have now trended more in Democrats' favor, which is pretty significant considering only about a third of the Senate is up.

3:02Most of the seats are in the safe category. So when you have that many seats now tipping toward Democrats, you're looking remarkably at a cycle where Democrats started on the defensive. They didn't have much room to really grow. It looked like a long shot that they would take back the Senate. It's certainly within reach that Democrats could take the Senate majority. That's not to say that they're favored or that it will definitely happen. But a mix of candidates and the national environment has meant that Democrats do have a legitimate chance now of taking back the Senate. All right. So I want to take through the Senate map and I want to talk about some of these states that Democrats think might actually be in play this cycle.

3:47Domenico, why don't you walk us through that? There are multiple states that Democrats are targeting now. I mean, North Carolina, for example, is like the top one, I think, that Democrats and most Republicans feel like is headed in Democrats' direction. It's now lean Democrat, according to the Cook Political Report. Then you have states that are in this other category like Maine, Ohio, Alaska, Iowa. Those are all toss-ups now in the Cook Political Report. And we think about a state like Kansas. It had been solid Republican for a very long time and is now lean Republican. And it's really quite something that that's even on the map.

4:24You know, and you think about places like Nebraska and South Carolina that nobody was talking about that are now kind of in the periphery a little bit. You know, this is a really interesting thing, because when you think about places like Georgia, which was a big Republican target at the beginning of the cycle, that's now moved to likely Democrat from lean Democrat. So that's almost off the table for Republicans. And then they have two other targets, Michigan and New Hampshire. Both are toss ups. And if Republicans can pick off one or both of those, it certainly makes the map harder for Democrats.

4:58But the map here, as we're talking about, has certainly widened fairly considerably for Democrats over the last few months. Franco, this is not great news for Republicans, I'm guessing. And it's looking as we get closer to the election bleaker for them. I'm guessing this is why we saw President Trump holding rallies in deep red Texas and Oklahoma. Yeah, I mean, certainly when it comes to Oklahoma, I was on the trip and felt like I was basically living through the scenario that Domenico is describing right now. And basically a very, very delicate dance that Republicans are trying to have with Trump.

5:37I mean, they want to keep some distance from him because Trump is not very popular right now in many circles. But they also can't distance themselves too much or risk turning off, you know, Trump's diehard base. I mean, Oklahoma, he's telling them to pretend he's on the ballot as he does in other places. And, you know, that's clearly a very big asset for MAGA voters. But it's also a very dangerous message when it comes to Republicans. And, of course, he did stop in Texas as well. And while it has been a very, you know, red stronghold, it is, you know, there are questions about that race right now.

6:15And he went there to support Ken Paxton, the Republican candidate AG who's running against James Tallarico. And Trump praised Paxton. He said he traveled to Texas to help Paxton. But he didn't bring Paxton on the stage. There was no photo of the two together. And I think that does kind of speak to that dance that some Republicans are having. And, you know, The New York Times reported that Paxton even told donors that Trump's midterm convention may have been a drag on some of the Republican support. Well, it's always been this double edged sword when it comes to Trump for the Republican Party. You know, when he's on the ballot, he certainly fires up the right and MAGA and he's able to bring out more conservatives, which Republicans need.

7:04Right. But when Trump is the face of everything, he also is toxic for the middle. And that means independents are very turned off by him. And increasingly, we're seeing in polling and in some elections, Latinos who are a key group and a swing group still. And, you know, it's not clear which direction they will go if they will actually show up, if they will stay home. But a lot of what Trump's policies have been, whether it's the economy and prices or these harsh immigration tactics, have certainly been something that Latinos have viewed overwhelmingly as a negative and not what they thought they were buying into when Trump won a record share of Latinos in the 2024 presidential election.

7:45So these are all warning signs for Republicans and especially those swing district Republicans who aren't sure exactly how to deal with Trump when it comes to Trump being the national face of everything. Yeah. At the same time, they can't totally distance themselves from him because they need those MAGA voters. They need that support to get them over the edge. And Trump is just, as Domenico is pointing out, he's just so tied to the Republican Party. I mean, they're just connected so much at the hip. They can't entirely distance themselves. And MAGA voters are tied to Trump. They're very loyal to Trump.

8:21And if they think Trump's being dissed, they're going to respond. Here's the thing, though, that I do think we need to talk a little bit about, and that's the national environment that Trump has created because midterms are largely a referendum on the president that's in office. And right now, when it comes to an average of the polls, you look at The New York Times aggregator, for example, Trump's approval rating is at 37 percent. It's not that far off from the sort of lows of Obama and Biden who are in the kind of low 40s when it comes to pre-midterm approval ratings. But the only person who he's tied with in pre-midterm approval ratings is George W.

8:59Bush in 2006, just before the 2006 election when Iraq was spiraling into civil war. That's the same environment you've got right now for Trump. And back then in 2006, Democrats were able to take back the House, take back the Senate. And it's looking very similar to that environment, except for the fact that we have a way smaller universe of competitive to potentially competitive seats. Yeah. Looking at all this, I guess it's not so surprising to see the Senate map look the way it is. Like the Republicans also just don't have a lot to run on right now. Like the economy gets worse and worse every day.

9:35Like there's it's really a tough like just atmosphere for them, which is why I guess maybe we shouldn't be so shocked. But I am pretty shocked to see like states like Ohio, like that Senate race, look the way it does when I mean, especially when you're looking at like states that you would assume would be better for Democrats like Maine and Michigan. Again, like it's a very interesting picture. But, you know, Ohio has been a Republican stronghold for a little bit now. Like what is happening there? Well, let's look at Ohio in the big picture first. John Husted is the incumbent Republican. Most people in this country probably don't know a whole lot about John Husted, except that he's a Republican.

10:10And when you're seen as a generic Republican or a generic Democrat, you're very closely tied to the leadership of your party. So whatever Donald Trump says and does is going to be very clearly translated to John Husted. And it's something that he's going to have to depend. Now, this is a right-leaning state, as you noted. But the person he's running against, it's this weird situation where Democrat Sherrod Brown is on the ticket. And a lot of people think Sherrod Brown is the incumbent because he served for so long in the Senate. But when it comes to something like you mentioned, the economy, presidents usually get more blame and credit than they deserve for the economy.

10:47But with the war in Iran, Trump's tariffs, these were choices that led directly to increased prices on goods and energy. The economy is also increasingly bifurcated. And you're talking about the Midwest, former Rust Belt places that are dependent on domestic manufacturing and having that base being offshored or put overseas. and AI getting more attention here, there's such a backlash to artificial intelligence that Trump is now doubling down, though, on artificial intelligence, trying to rebrand it as super intelligence, calling it SI. But look, when I talked to a Democratic strategist this week, they said, you've got to lean into AI in a street fight here because the polling is clear.

11:32People are against data centers. They want more regulation. And maybe in the long term, it'll help the economy. But it's really helping right now wealthy people because their portfolios are dominated by AI companies. The stock market is continuing to increase when it comes to that because of that. But regular Americans are struggling because inflation is outpacing wages. The labor market is pretty middling. Interest rates are creeping higher. And that's making it harder to do things like borrow for houses and cars. And that's why I'm seeing Sherrod Brown try to make John Husted the face of AI data centers.

12:04Yeah. I mean, Franco, I would love for you to explain like the president's thinking here, because like, I mean, I hear from swing voters month after month and this is a huge part of their anxiety, not just, you know, what AI is going to do like to education, raising already high energy prices. It is a big source of stress for people. I wonder like how you see the administration like navigating this. Yeah, definitely high stress about the energy costs, the unwanted development. Trump is really doubling down at a time when the politics on this are really just getting harder and harder. He's promoting these data centers as big economic engines.

12:42He met this week with AI executives. And the case he's making is that America cannot afford to slow down during the AI race or they're going to get beat by China. And he argues that the data centers actually bring jobs and tax revenue. Trump often talks about these 80-20 issues and that he is usually on the side of the 80 percent issue. This is not one of them. This is such a huge political challenge for Republicans because it is another very controversial issue that Trump is basically owning right now just before the midterms. And it's because of those high electricity costs, because of the unwanted development, because of the noise and because of the very big fear that this technology is going to take people's jobs away.

13:29You know, Trump's going to do what Trump wants to do. He'd be making a lot of different decisions if he was really, really concerned about, you know, how Republicans would do in the midterms. I think, you know, he's focused on his own agenda first and foremost. All right. We're going to take a quick break. Franco, go get a cup of coffee. We'll see you in a bit. See you a bit. When we come back, the curious case of the campaigning clergy. Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. Support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day.

14:03Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. Listen at schwab.com slash Washington Wise. This message comes from Edison Electric Institute. As a new season starts, the air begins to chill, and people set their sights on holiday preparations once again. America's electric companies are working safely and responsibly behind the scenes to provide their communities with reliable energy that will keep everyone all safe, warm, and ready for the moments that matter most. America's electric companies, powering the energy of every day. Support for NPR and the following message come from Legacy Box, preserving family stories by converting home movies, film, and slides into digital files.

14:51Co-founder Adam Baselugger shares an early customer experience that left a lasting impression. We had a lady walk into our office and she had terminal cancer and she walked in with her daughter. She had a massive box of videotapes and she said, I need help. I want to share the stories before it's too late. And for young guys that had just started a business, we were like, we've got to pour our soul into this business. Learn more at LegacyBox.com slash NPR. Welcome back. And NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose is with us. Hi, Jason. Hello. All right, Jason. So you've been doing some reporting on how there's been like an increasing number of Democrats who are leaning on faith and their ties to their religion as actually part of their like campaign messaging.

15:34We know James Tallarico, obviously, very closely watched Senate race in Texas. He's a Democratic candidate. He's a seminarian. But there were other folks that you followed as well. Can you talk to us about what you heard from them about why they're running? Right. Well, there are actually five people who are either in seminary or are clergy running as Democrats. As you mentioned, Tallarico in Texas, but also Frederick Haynes, who's also in Texas, running for a house seat in the Dallas area. He's a Baptist pastor at a large congregation there. He's been there for more than 40 years. In Iowa, there are two clergy people running for two U.S.

16:11House seats there. Sarah Trongariot is a Lutheran pastor in the Des Moines area, and Lindsay James is a Presbyterian chaplain in the Dubuque area in northeast Iowa. There's also Adam Hamilton. He's running as a Democrat in Kansas for the Senate, and he's a Methodist pastor at a large congregation there. Now, each of them says they have different reasons for running in Texas. Redistricting was a big issue in Iowa. They talk a lot about opposing the Big Beautiful Bill because of what it meant to rural health care. Neither of those is actually an explicitly religious issue. But one big theme around these clergy or seminarians running as Democrats is the story of the Good Samaritan, that story from the Gospel of Luke about being a good neighbor and what it means to be a good neighbor means to help those in need.

17:00And these candidates see running for office as a way to serve their neighbors. I wonder how prominent their religion is in how they're talking about their campaign, their messages, what they want to get done. Is it at the forefront? And I guess I wonder for a Democratic audience, which is like mostly the voters are trying to get out, like how are they navigating that where, you know, Republicans are usually, you know, the sort of folks who have like more ease talking about mixing religion and politics on the stump? I'm not sure that they see their religious message explicitly as the winning message.

17:32I think they see their concerns, political representation, rural health care, economic opportunity as the winning message. But those aren't explicitly religious. In fact, these Democrats have needed to thread a needle to talk about religion because less than a third of Democrats, according to Pew Research, say religion is very important in their lives. So they've come up with ways to talk about their own faith and what inspires them and how that leads them into public life and onto certain topics without alienating a largely secular base. But you know who does say religion is important in their lives?

18:09Republicans, at more than twice the rate as Democrats. So when clergy talk about religion, there's also something of an appeal to people of faith who might be, say, willing to cross the aisle, also perhaps appealing to independence. And remember, in Texas and Iowa, where I did most of my reporting, these are in the South and the Midwest, places where religion is somewhat more central to the conversation than, say, on the East or West coasts. Domenico, I mean, how do you see this playing out for Democrats? Because secular voters, by and large, tend to be more aligned with the Democratic Party. If you're going to find a group of folks who identify as non-religious, they're not likely to be Republicans at this point.

18:49Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when you look at Pew polling on religious nuns, as they call it, and I'm not talking about the Catholic nuns, this is no religion, not affiliated. 28 % of people in 2024 said that they consider themselves a religious nun, up from 16 % two decades ago. And 62 % of those who said that religion wasn't a big part of their life were Democrats. 31 % only were Republican-leaning. So, yes, this could have some potential for appeal to independents who might lean Republican or be more moderate. And a lot of the places, as Jason is alluding to, these are red states, right? Texas, Iowa, Kansas, all places that Trump won by significant margins in the 2024 and 2016 presidential elections.

19:37So, look, when you think about that, that is it is possible. However, I'll say like in the Kansas Senate race, Hamilton has been derided about his religion and his church being a, quote, woke church by Roger Marshall, who he's running against, the incumbent senator there. So there's been this sort of push against some of these Democratic, you know, seminarians who, you know, buy Republicans to sort of dismiss their religious teaching as too liberal or too woke. But look, this is the kind of thing that has been at odds within the Democratic Party for a long time. And where Republicans have really ramped up the use of religion to say that they kind of own religion, you're seeing a little bit more where Democrats here are trying to push back and own that.

20:33But within the Democratic Party, it's a little bit of a there's a little bit of a tension point there, too, because because of how much Republicans have used it and made it a forefront issue. A lot of Democrats don't want to see a religious candidate or somebody who puts religion and their faith forward. And I think it's a really interesting debate and going to be I'm very curious to see how these races play out because of that. Yeah, I got to say, Jason, like I was a political reporter in Texas for nearly a decade and issues like abortion, like right now there's a law about, you know, posting the Ten Commandments in public schools.

21:08These are the kind of issues that tend to really inspire and mobilize Republican voters, but they really outrage Democrats. I wonder what kind of feedback you've gotten from Democratic voters as they see, you know, maybe in a different way, but religion, again, sort of playing an important role in the way like candidates campaign. Well, I found a real range. You've got the Democrats in the pews who say they're thrilled that candidates are finally talking about faith and they hear somebody talking about faith that sounds a lot like their own. But you also have people in the pews who say, I'm leery about this because of the way that Republicans have talked about the intersection of religion and politics.

21:50And then you've got this large group of Democrats for whom religion isn't important. And I would say they fall into two categories. There are the ones who say, well, I'm not religious, but it's fine if folks want to talk about that. I talk to many people in that category, especially at a lot of James Tallarico events who are like, I'm secular. I go to the gym. That's the only thing you do religiously. But I'm happy with the people who are interested in Tallarico because he's a person of faith. But then there's this other group that really do want a separation. I would call them the strict separationists who say they do not want to hear about faith stories from their candidates.

22:26They do not want to hear appeals to scripture. But they might still vote for that candidate. And probably they will vote for that candidate probably because they're Democrats and they want to vote for the Democratic nominee. And, of course, you have these clergy candidates' opponents who are also spending, as Domenico said, a lot of time questioning whether these pastors and chaplains and seminarians are really Christian or really pastors. In fact, in Iowa, Lindsay James' opponent, Joe Mitchell, calls them Pinos, pastors in name only. Of course, they are real pastors and they are real seminarians.

23:01Some of them have spent 20, 30, 40 years in ministry. They just have a different view of what the commitments of Christianity mean in public life. You know, it's funny because we all have different inspiration for our values, you know, whether that's came from our parents, our communities. And a lot of that for many people is a religious background. That doesn't necessarily mean that your religious values are going to translate exactly to policy and what you think that the Bible tells you is what you're going to then put in place as your policies. It's more of a statement of values, right? And I think for someone like Tallarico, I think it's really interesting because we're talking about the idea of separation of church and state.

23:46There's been a viral clip that I've seen going around where Tallarico is telling another representative from Texas who's a Republican who wants the Ten Commandments put into schools, why the Ten Commandments shouldn't be put into schools. And he's basing that on the Constitution and the writings of James Madison. And, you know, he seems to trip up this representative who thinks he's talking about Thomas Jefferson, for example, who wrote the Declaration of Independence. So it's not quite so clean cut as this person is religious, so they're going to use the Bible to then create policy, which is, you know, I think the fear on the left a lot of times when it comes to especially those on the right where they've heard that more explicitly, you know, particularly from Southern Baptists.

24:31You know, Domenico, in fact, James Tallarico came to prominence and I interviewed him years ago, not as a candidate for anything, but he was just talking out against Christian nationalism. He was a state legislator who was publicly speaking out against Christian nationalism. And that's how he sort of came to prominence among those of us who cover religion. And then suddenly he became the Democratic nominee and he's in seminary. So people sort of assumed he might be more interested in less separation, but he's actually quite interested in separation of church and state. Well, and if you think about why he gained as much attention as he did in speaking out against Christian nationalism, you could argue that because he's a seminarian or a pastor in training, that he had some authority in being able to talk about Scripture and being able to say, no, these are – what they're doing is bastardizing my view of the Bible and that that's a fundamentalist view that's inappropriate and shouldn't be used for public life.

25:27is arguable that, you know, somebody who is a pastor has more authority in being able to make that argument than somebody who considers themselves secular. Yeah. Yes, maybe more authority, but also just more ability to do it because they have spent their lives publicly talking about their faith in ways that many people just sort of have a private faith that they don't really talk about that much. But, you know, one thing that I found with a lot of these people, especially the Presbyterian chaplain, she said it's not just about the preaching. It's about the ministry of presence. It's about listening to people, being present with them in their most important, most difficult times, whether it's the birth of a child or the death of a parent, and that a good politician should be able to be present and listen to the people that they want to serve as their representative.

26:13I do want to talk, though, a little bit of where things might get a little trickier for them. I'm thinking on issues like abortion where, you know, the Democratic platform may not always align with certain religions. How are these Democratic candidates navigating that? Well, it depends on how your religion talks about an issue like abortion. And for these Democrats, they all come from denominations, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, that have many different points of view on abortion. And those are all sort of encompassed in a big tent. There There is no one dogmatic church teaching on the issue, on many issues, in fact, for many Protestants, especially mainline Protestants like these folks.

26:55Now, that's very different from, say, the Catholic Church, although it's important to remember that, you know, while the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is a sin, very large numbers of self-identified Catholics, roughly, I think, six in 10, according to Pew Research, do favor abortion rights. It's not always the religious shibboleth that some religious leaders want to make it out to be. Look at a Presbyterian congregation or a Lutheran congregation or a Methodist congregation. You're going to have a whole variety of views about abortion there. Similarly, these candidates in Texas and Iowa have all voted against bills in their state legislatures that restricted rights for transgender people, the bathroom bills, the youth sports bills that were passed in recent years.

27:34And their opponents have actually taken them to task for that, saying that those aren't Christian stances. But within Christianity, there is a whole host of views about trans rights from conservative to liberal and everywhere in between. And I think these candidates are demonstrating that Christianity is not one thing, but many things in America, and that no one party has the market cornered for people who call themselves Christians. All right. Well, thanks so much, Jason, for sharing your reporting with us. Happy to do it. One more break, and then it's time for Can't Let It Go. Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.

28:13Support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news and how they may affect your finances and portfolio. Host Mike Townsend and his guests explore policy initiatives for retirement savings, taxes, trade, and more. Download the latest episode and follow at schwab.com slash Washington Wise or wherever you listen. This message comes from Edison Electric Institute. Behind Friday night lights, coffee shop Saturday mornings, and every big and small moment in between, America's electric companies are hard at work, strengthening reliability, serving responsibly and innovating for tomorrow to keep communities safe, secure, and connected and provide their customers with the energy of every day.

29:06America's electric companies, powering the energy of every day. This message comes from Sattva. Have a big day coming up. Remember, tomorrow starts tonight with the restorative sleep you need to perform at your best, the kind every Sattva mattress is designed for. So whether it's a new job, a marathon, or an important presentation, Sattva helps you be the best version of you. And now save 15 % off purchases of$100 or more at sattva.com slash NPR. That's S-double-A-T-V-A dot com slash NPR. And we're back. And so is Franco. Hey, Franco. Hey there. Okay, so it's time for Can't Let It Go. This is the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise.

29:53I'm going to go first. I cannot stop thinking about this moment in a town hall. Yes, this is, I'm sorry, guys, it's more politics for you. So in Florida, my lovely home state, Byron Donald, he's the Republican nominee for governor. He held this campaign event where he took questions. And there's this exchange that happened that we're going to listen to, which went a little viral and was posted on social media. Here, take a listen. Florida does not protect grandparents' rights. if a regular parent and a regular grandparent or grandparents that they argue they don't agree the parents can cut the grandchild out of the grandparent's life and that has happened to me i have not seen my grandson since august 7th of this year and i want to know what can happen to get the fix because it's because of pettiness because i refuse to babysit because i had plans Okay.

30:52I mean, I obviously feel very bad for this woman. She's obviously going through something very emotional. But man, oh, man, do I also feel for Byron Donald. This is a tough one, man. Like, what do you do as a politician when, you know, like a town hall is really it's a great like lowercase d democratic service to have, you know, voters talk to you about, you know, what's going on in their lives. But man, oh, man, could sometimes that really take a left turn. Yeah, I definitely – so many different emotional swirls going on, but certainly understand why politicians often are kind of reluctant to have these town halls because of that.

31:32But man, I can't imagine the family dinner conversation in that family. Can you imagine? Like mom. Poor thing. Yeah, but I mean I do think that these kinds of town halls are a test of whether or not a politician is skilled to be able to handle these kinds of things, right? Right. I mean, if you can't handle a constituent of yours who's clearly going through something very difficult and meaningful in her life, then how are you going to, you know, do well at a debate on the House or Senate floor? I mean, I do think that these two things are are are not completely unrelated. And, you know, I think it's good practice for these politicians to be able to show they can feel people's pain, but also be able to, you know, push back if they need to push back and talk about what the law is or talk about what openings there could be or referring people for help.

32:22Like, you know, whatever it is. Right. I mean, it's part of showing your humanity. Yeah. I will say it's only been two months. Kind of the nuclear option to go to a town hall and ask a lawmaker to solve this for you. Anyways. OK, Franco, you're up next. What can't you let go of this week? I'm going to go back to the faith theme and a little bit of sports because we got Domenico here. My can't let it go is that Pope Leo and whether he actually sought some divine intervention to help the Chicago White Sox make it back into the playoffs. You know, Pope Leo's Chicago born, a lifelong fan of the White Sox.

33:04And he was actually asked playfully if he had anything to do with the White Sox surprise return to the playoffs. And he just smiled and said no comment. He's a big White Sox fan, no doubt about it. Remember, there's the old video of him at the 2005 World Series. all that. I'm sure he probably said a prayer or two. Why not? Probably. It's a risky prayer to make because it was just a little while ago that he really riled up some soccer fans, especially Barcelona fans, when he acknowledged that he personally roots for Real Madrid. So I will say here in the U.S., I expect Cubs fans, Chicago Cubs fans and frankly all baseball fans will give the Pope a little bit of a pass here considering it is his lifetime team.

33:57Yeah and God's got a lot going on right I mean so he may or may not have heard the call. And the White Sox could use any help they can get. Nice. Domenico what can't you let go of this week? I can't let go of probably the one thing that's more controversial than politics. Taylor Swift. Oh my gosh yeah. That is politics. What are you talking about? This is like the third album in a row people are not happy. So there's that, but I think I'm kind of more focused on the VMAs, which I actually caught this past week because I thought it was interesting. She unveiled her new gauzy video after getting the first artistic director or artist director award from the VMAs.

34:39And look, it's a really interesting video. It's got Dakota Johnson in it. It's got Colin Farrell. The thing, though, that kind of got me a little bit is what does everybody know about Taylor Swift that happened over the past year? She got married. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Married at Madison Square Garden. It's supposed to be this love story. Your English teacher married your gym teacher, blah, blah, blah. That's what she wanted to make it sound like. Right. And what is this video about? It's about another ex who she's dragging. So I don't know if I'm if I'm Travis Kelsey, I'm feeling like I'm on the clock.

35:16Like, because can Taylor Swift, my question here is, can Taylor Swift have a career that doesn't involve dragging an ex to be able to make music? I mean, apparently she had one song that was like kind of about love in a positive way, and it wasn't very well received. Yeah. You know, I think actually this is a volume problem. I think Taylor just needs to take a break. Like maybe she needs to find something to write about in her life as it is. Because I think she's just working too much. I mean, look, I one of the best albums that came out this year was, in my opinion, Phoebe Bridger's new album.

35:52She took years to make that. And Taylor is pumping out a record like every year, every other year, at least. I think like she has to go back to the hits because I don't think she has enough time to come up with new ideas. Each one of those records is blowing up. They are. Every tour is blowing up. It's fair. But also like - Travis Kelsey knew exactly what he was doing when he handed over that little friendship bracelet. He knew what he was doing. He knew the relationship he was getting into. Oh, 100%. I don't think he cares. I mean, you know, I think that that's all good. But I'm just artistically curious if she'll move on from dragging exes now that she's married at some point.

36:29Yeah. I mean, I gotta say Franco just because like, you know, we're a journalistic outfit. And I'm not a Swifty, but I do know this. He never actually got to give her the little bracelet. The story is that he wanted to, and then he got on his podcast, and he was like, I wanted to give Taylor Swift this little bracelet with my number. And she heard it, and the rest was history. So he just left it in his – he just has it in some, like, drawer or something? I'm sure he eventually gave it to her, but, yeah, interesting times. Okay, that's all for today. Our executive producer is Mithoni Maturi. Our producer is Bria Suggs.

37:01Casey Murrell edits the podcast. Special thanks to Dana Farrington. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.

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