Mariga & Wanyama Exclusive: Pochettino’s Special Talent, Fatherly José & Eto’o Africa’s GOAT

23:24So I think that's it was our biggest platform for us. now I think a couple of years ago Kenyans we don't move to Sweden so even we're professional we had a lot of professional out there before and now we have the numbers are reduced so I think we have to do something and maybe as a federation we have to do partnerships you know this partnership for example we've been at we've been with the president Hussein in Marseille and we've talked to Marseille they want to host our national team. They want to give us facilities for our national teams to train there. So those partnerships, I think with those partnerships, then things will grow very fast.

24:08Do you think African...

24:13John Obi Mikel:We've seen how the Europeans, again, I don't like to compare, but how they invest in youth, in the academies, in the kids growing up, providing the best facilities, the best pitch for them to grow up and play. Do you think we're doing enough investing in the youth, in African youth academies to be able to nurture and bring out those fantastic young talents that we have? For me, I think we're not doing enough. Some countries in Africa, they're doing well, you know, West Africans, you know, North Africans. I've been in Morocco Academy. You can see the structure. I can say in Kenya, we have a couple of academies, but we are not in that the big level.

25:00So I think with the youth we have to do more. I think in Kenya, speaking about Kenya in Kenya we are not doing very very well compared to other countries. I think it's time now to wake up and start supporting the youth. I'm even the chairman of the youth committee. We have to start nurturing these talents when they are still young. You have to invest in them. We have to invest a lot in them. And we have academy, even my brother, me and my brother, we are finishing our academy in Busia. So we have to get a lot of, you know, youth coming to play in these academies. And I think the sad thing in Africa is pay to play.

25:44You know, now it's pay to play. You go to, you put your son in academy, you have to pay. If you don't pay, then they don't train. And now it's like business. And if it's business, there's no nurturing of players. you have to nurture these players if they pay you have to make them feel that you know even the parents feel that yeah my my kid day by day is growing is you know it's improving but this uh thing is this uh pay to play doesn't work because you pay i have maybe one academy it has a thousand kids then i have four five coaches how can five six coaches you know coach a thousand kids so Take the kids, they enjoy, they play, go out.

26:26You don't show them how to be a professional, how to eat, how to tackle a game. Then it's a big challenge and it's very sad this moment. I want to open up to the floor. We've got questions from our fans in tonight, McDonald. We're going to do that in a couple of minutes. We're building up to Chelsea, West Ham. I'm going to put you on the spot here, McDonald. Who is your English team? Who do you support? And be honest. Man City.

26:59The team that you almost played for. Yeah. You know, before I went abroad. I thought you were going to say Tottenham. Your brother played for Tottenham. Yeah. He's going to be upset. I used to support Arsenal. Okay. Because of Patrick Vieira. Because I liked the way he was manning the midfield. Yeah. When he moved to Inter. Then I. You changed. I changed, yeah. Then my move, then I started supporting Man City because of my move. Then, yeah, then I didn't go to Man City. Then I just say, I'll just support them. A few words about our crowd sponsors.

27:37John Obi Mikel:Betwinner is your reliable partner in the world of sports betting. Enjoy placing bets on any sports event with great odds and maximum convenience. Visit betwinner.com now. One man, he loves this guy. I love this guy. He played in your position, McDonald, Moises Kasedo. For me, there is no other player in world football that does what he does. I think he's top. How much are you a fan of Moises? For me, yeah, he's a great player. He's, you know, he's doing great. And yeah, for me, I've not followed him a lot. I've seen a couple of games, but yeah, he's a good player. He's a very, I mean, you love him, John.

28:18No, no, no,

28:18John Obi Mikel:I don't think he's better than both of us, though. tell you what you two in the middle of the park you two looking no no Moist listen Moist is a fantastic player I mean what he does for the club is just brilliant absolute brilliant you know not just breaking up plays and doing the dirty work I think something he's done this season as well is you know he's taking it to the next level I think you can see he's trying to be a sort of a a rotary kind of player now he wants to score goals he wants to create chances not just being the dirty guy who does the dirty Back in the day when we played, you know, they just want us to sit there and just be the guy who break up play.

28:56John Obi Mikel:Now they give them a bit more freedom to go forward and score goals as well. So it's a bit different now in that position. And I think Moise is doing it amazingly well, of course. But if you look at it, yeah, I can always say for me, Rodri is the best in that position. Obviously, he's been injured now for a very long time. He's coming back. He needs time to get back to, you know, get up to speed. but McDonald John's talked a lot about Steven Gerrard as being the best that he came up against he had everything who's the best Gerrard who's the best midfielder that you played against against against I'd say Iniesta I'd say Iniesta very fantastic you know it's just the vision the touch you know the passes you know short passes long passes no it's very very fantastic player.

29:47John Obi Mikel:You can never get close to him. Oh, yeah. That Barcelona trio of Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, for me, I don't think you're ever going to see the midfield trio that play the way they did. They will dominate you. They will pass you to death. You know, they pass you around until you start having a... Like, they are that good. So for me, they're fantastic. I don't think you will ever have that trio. You know, Iniesta, the way he glides with the ball. Xavi with his vision. Yeah. And Busquets never loses the ball, you know, he's not strong, he's not physical, but he's just so good. And they, you know, they're fantastic.

30:22John Obi Mikel:So for me, Dostoevsky, they were just absolutely, absolutely brilliant. And your best teammate, who is the teammate, McDonald, that you just said, wow, he is the best? The best. The best teammate, I think I'll say Eto 'o, Snyder, Milito. Milito, I was going to say. Yeah, yeah. There was even Stankovic, Thiago Mota, you know, they're great, great players, you know, and the captain. Yeah, so we had them. Javier Zanetti. Fantastic team. Zanetti, you know, yeah. Samuel Cordoba. It was a great team. It was a very, very good team. Fantastic team. It was an incredible team. Right. It was Atari, yeah?

31:06Too good. Right, I want to open up. Let's get a microphone out to you guys. this is an opportunity for you guys to ask a question. So, have we got questions out there for Mikel and for McDonald? What steps are you guys taking towards nurturing the under-18s talent in the country and then maybe sending them to better leagues and better teams abroad? Good question, Milton. And, you know, as a federation, we have a program that is called TDS. TDS is the only youth program whereby we do tournaments from under 13, under 15 and under 17. So we finished it a month ago. We've closed it. It's a tournament that every year it has a span of six, seven months.

32:01It's like a tournament. So that's why even we nurture, you know, We do, you know, for the national team, under 15 national team and under 17. That's why we bring scouts so that we can feed the under 17 and under 15 national team. So we have that program and it's everywhere in Kenya, in every constituency, in every county, sorry. In every county, they play and we select the best kids and we take them to the national team. So to Milton's point, I know we touched on it earlier, McDonald, it's about how do we then take those youngsters and how do we get them into European academies, back to maybe Scandinavia, into Belgium?

32:50That's the big... Yeah, you know, now we, you know, I can't compare ourselves with, you know, West African countries whereby they have agents there. You know, agents are right there every time they see a new kid in the wood. They just pick him. Now, for us, we have to be seen in our under-15 national teams and under-17s. Even me, myself, I was scouted in our under-17 national team. So I think now we are trying to do partnership whereby, for example, we did in with marseille whereby we'll be taking our kids our under 13 and under 15 and under 17 to do the tournaments there in marseille in italy in sweden in uh norway when we get our best kids going to participate in these uh tournaments then there'll be agents there to scout them so that's the option now we have because we don't have you know agents coming to kenya at this moment.

33:47So the message, become an agent Milton. There's money to be made if you become an agent. Right, next question. So my question, my first question is back in 2006, 2005, the time you signed for Chelsea. Do you think you could have made the better decision which is signing for Manchester United, which is the biggest team in the world? Do you have just one question or you have two questions? Okay, my other question is for Marika. Okay. Shout out to you and everything you're doing for the football in Kenya. Chan was an amazing... We saw what you guys can do for Kenyan football. So we are hoping that you'll continue doing the amazing work.

34:28And a friend of mine here has told me to ask you to when you're picking teams, you see the way they were talking about Senegal, picking younger players and stuff like that. If you can pick even 17-year-old, there's so many talented kids out there. Yeah. Thank you for that. But I also want to know if you could have signed for Manchester United.

34:47John Obi Mikel:right come on John well listen it's 2006 it's a long time I I was in a very very good position I was in the best position any 17 year old could be when you have one of the two biggest clubs in the Premier League in England fighting over you and want to sign you so for me I knew I was in a win-win situation which wherever I go it was a win-win for me but I just decided to go to Chelsea obviously because I looked at Manchester United, I thought, okay, they've won everything. They've won the Premier League, the Champions League. They've done it all. And as a young player from Africa, from Nigeria, I wanted to go somewhere where I can create a bit of my own history.

35:30John Obi Mikel:To be the first to win this, to win that. And I saw a young up-and-coming manager, you know, arrogant manager who came in the Premier League and said, he's the special one. And he started winning the Premier League. So I thought, let me go there. And of course, with the best owner that's ever been in the Premier League, Roman Abramovich, I thought this is the best place for me to go and improve and get better as a young player. So I made the decision to go to Chelsea. And of course, we created the history. We created the first club in London to win the Premier League. And of course, the rest was history.

36:01John Obi Mikel:I was lucky enough to win about 11 to 12 trophies with the club. And so it was a fantastic decision. No regrets. But of course, Manchester United is still a huge, huge club. Very good answer. Very good answer. Talking about under 17, you know, playing in a national team. We had a couple of friendly matches a month ago and I can tell you that we had six under 20 players in that team. We didn't call the professional players, we called only local players and they played in the friendly match. So the coach is trying even to see different, you know, categories of players. so that you can see more and more players that can represent us in the 2027 AFCON.

36:51John Obi Mikel:It's very important to have a mixture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, two more questions from the fans. Two more questions. Here we go, question. Hello, I'm Colin Salacia, the current coach for Chelsea Kenya Viga branch. I understand in Kenya we have branches. So I'm the coach for Viga branch. And I have now a question for Mariga. One, I know as we are preparing for AFKON, I understand Kenya, we have so many players who are either born outside the country, either in Europe or in the U.S. or in the Asian continent. What are you doing as a federation? Because I understand, like you can see, for example, someone like Aaron Wan-Bissaka, who decided to choose to go back to indigenous country in Congo to play for them during the previous AFKON.

37:40what are you doing as a federation to help us because i understand we have so many kenyans who are like we know we had origi who was playing for liverpool the other day he's a kenyan as you came to the office of course we had so much expectations for you what is your federation doing about bringing such players to come and help us as you know we understand this thing also need experience apart from just having our local best players and then another thing another question is about what is your plan as a federation about under 12, under 13, under 15, all the way to the senior team? Because I understand you're only now depending on school games during the second year for you to get to the under 15, mostly under 16.

38:22As a federation, what's the plan? At least you have a league for those junior players. Thank you. Good questions. First of all, we don't depend on, you know, school games. I said earlier we have TDS tournaments, whereby we have under 15s, under 13s, and under 17. So we have another set of tournaments apart from school games. So we have that TDS tournament sponsored by FIFA. So we do it annually. And what I can say about the players playing abroad. We've recruited them. We've seen them. And I think we have a list of 15 players. Good players that they are doing well in their club. They have never played for Kenya.

39:04Really? Foreign players? Good players. In England, in France, in second division, you know. And, you know, even playing in third division in even Scandinavian countries, it's not a very bad, you know, it's not a very bad level. Yeah. You can come and you can do good things, good things for our country, for the national team. So we have like 15, 16 players. We are going with Coach Benny in mid-February. We'll be going to France, England, and we're going to the Scandinavian countries to just tell them how you feel, how players feel when the coach comes and talk to them one-on-one. So that's what we want.

39:46We talk to them one-on-one and we invite them here. We have a tournament in March. It will be I think a five-nation tournament. We'll be playing in Rwanda. So we want those players to be here so that they can participate in that tournament. Okay, good questions. Right, final question, make it a good one.

40:36Right now in Kenya, many teams in women league are falling out because of financial support. What are you employing in your mechanism just to make sure that you retain these teams in their league and give them support enough for them also to sign like Chelsea women? Thank you. I'll start this one because then I hope you finish with Chelsea. Yeah, you know, Women League is not well supported. Now it's better because we had some sponsors coming in and trying to support women's football. And I can tell you that in Kenyan women's football we are doing great. Two years ago we had under 17 participating in World Cup, under 17 national women's team.

41:21and now we have Wafcon. It will be playing in March. Wafcon, when we have a Kenyan team, we have qualified for Wafcon. And I think we have to support them fully because they are doing good. They are representing our country well. So I think what we need to do is just to get more sponsors out there and they support the league. Because sponsorship for women is different from sponsorship for men. for men's league. So we have to talk to sponsors and we make the league for women great again.

41:59John Obi Mikel:Just following up on what you said, I know how women's football is massively, rapidly growing. It's getting better year in, year out. It's getting better. You see the clubs in Europe, Chelsea, they buy in place. Now we have a player, a female player for the first time, just signed a contract for$2 million. For me, that's huge. It just tells you you how much the league is growing. I've got two daughters. I've got two kids, two daughters. One of them absolutely loves playing football. The other one doesn't. She's so good in football. I think it's important to always grow the female football. In Nigeria, I think we're doing, we're not obviously in Nigeria.

42:38John Obi Mikel:We have a very good team, female football, but I just think again, they're not getting the support, the sponsorship that they need. Again, it comes down to the management that we have if we have the right management people they can go to brands knock on the door and say listen can you sponsor our female football because it's growing you need somebody that's played the game that can go and these brands will listen to them and i'm sure that's what you're doing when you go and you knock on the door and you talk to those brands they will listen to you because you played the game and you know the game so i hope you continue to do the good things that you're doing i can see from your the way you you're speaking that you want to see kenyan football get back to where it should be so massive congratulations to that and i hope you continue to do well and for my uh obviously chelsea where can i start with the chelsea coaches we've always been the clubs that suck managers

43:35John Obi Mikel:if you are not winning we suck you that's what we do and that's why we've been successful roman Abramovich, if you're winning, if you're winning, fine. If you're not winning, we sack you. But with these current owners, I don't know the objective, where they're going, because they keep sacking managers. We're not winning anything. They keep sacking managers. They're buying young players. The team needs a little bit of experience. That's what we need. And I think every Chelsea fan here can agree with that. We have way too many young players. We just need a couple of experienced players that I think we can be better.

44:10John Obi Mikel:We will start competing to win the league. So, I hope we give Liam Rossini some time because I think he will do well. I was a big fan of Enzo Moresca. I liked him. I didn't like the fact that they sacked him because I think I can see where he was going with the team. So, I was disappointed when they sacked him. But we need to support Liam. I think he's a good young manager. He's a black manager. We need to give him the opportunity to do well. So, I hope he stays in the team for a very long time and we can see what he, at least one or two seasons, and see what he can build with this Chelsea team.

44:43And are you sticking, John? They need a goalkeeper, a defender. Oh, don't talk to me about a goalkeeper. And another striker. Yes, exactly. Goalkeeper, defender, striker.

44:55John Obi Mikel:We need a top, top goalkeeper. Every Chelsea fan here knows, listen, Sanchez, he's done well this season, but Margot will tell you, if you want to win titles, right? I say it all the time, strikers will win you games. The goalkeepers and the defence will win you titles. Yes. Please give it up for a special guest. Magana, do you have any last message you want to send to them? Do you have any last message you want to send to the Kenyan fans? Yeah. I can just add the Chelsea. You can speak in Kenyan. If you want to, it's OK, Chelsea fans, I can.

45:37Speaking Swahili is what he understands. I have to ask Chelsea, Arsenal, Manu, all of them from Kenya. We will come back to support the team from Kenya. That's right. That's right. So...

45:57We will come home and support the team from home. But we will come back to Chelsea. to try support to see what you're saying to me. Kavisa. McDonald, thank you so much.

46:09John Obi Mikel:Thank you. Bet winner, your bets, your wins. Without further ado, let's welcome a man who played for Celtic, Southampton, Tottenham, in a spell in Montreal as well. 64 caps for Kenya. It's the one and only Victor Wanyama. Victor Wanyama. How are you, my friend? I'm good, I'm good. What do you make of the current Spurs team? I think at the moment things are not going well. A lot of new players, also new manager in, trying to find his way of playing. And it's a bit difficult. You know, the games they are a lot now, the Champions League, the League, the Cup. So I think it will take time. This season it will be very difficult, but I guess we can still finish strong.

47:02John Obi Mikel:You think so? You believe that this new team, this new Spurs team, can be able to find their way? Like, you know, when you played in Spurs, you know, the team you had under Mauricio Pochettino, right? You know, that spirit that you have, you know, you guys were so good going forward. The type of football that the Spurs fans want to see. Tell us Victor, what's Mauricio Pochettino like? You had him at Southampton, he signed you at Tottenham, he's been Chelsea manager as well. What makes Poch a very special manager? I think Poch is special. Poch is special, you know, the way he talks to players, the way he handles the players and also his trainings.

47:46Everything is special. His trainings, they crazy. We were training like some people they were vomiting on the on the on the pitch. No way. It was tough. It was tough. It was really tough. The session they were really hard.

47:59John Obi Mikel:Do you have any do you have any special uh story that you would tell us about Pochettino? Has he been tough on you one day? Like is there any dressing room story you would tell us about Pochettino? No for me it was it was it was good with me but it was good with everyone so Pochettino was like he's a good guy you know, always giving the players, you know, a hand on their shoulder and, you know, tapping them. But his assistant was the hard one, you know. So when things go bad, the assistant was really bad and people used to be scared of the assistant more than the manager. So Pochettino was the nice guy and he sent his assistant to give you guys the hair dryer.

48:41The assistant was coming and he was firing everyone, you know, he was getting angry at giving everyone the hair dryer. And then Pochettino will come and say, don't worry, next time. And that's what makes him also special. It makes you, after they beat you up, it makes you feel again important and ready to go again.

49:01John Obi Mikel:But do you think maybe that's the reason why you guys couldn't get over the line? Because he was a nice guy. Everybody say that Pochettino is a good guy, he's a good manager. But we just think he's a bit too nice. sometimes you need your manager to give you guys a little bit of the hair dryer treatment like Mourinho does. That makes you guys, brings the best out of you and wants you to win. The winning mentality comes in. We just feel like Poch is a little bit too nice. Do you think maybe that's why you guys didn't get to win any trophy with him? I think that wasn't an issue. I think we had a good team but just to get over the line sometimes you know the games that we were losing was they were not the games to lose, you know.

49:49I don't know how to put it, but, you know, we were doing well at home, but the games like in Sunderland going away, dropping points in these games, it was difficult to, you know, to recover from these games. So when you drop points and then your rivals are winning, then the pressure gets in the team and it becomes difficult. But all in all, like I can say, you know, So we tried, we gave everything, but it just didn't turn out to our day. Can I ask Victor, obviously, Scottish, I remember you at Celtic. Where were you at your happiest? Celtic, Southampton, Tottenham, Canada with Montreal. Where were you at your most?

50:38I guess, where did you feel that you produced your best football? I would say in all three clubs, because all four clubs made me feel special. Celtic as well is a special club. Celtic is a special club, you know. I have to say that, you know, the fans are incredible. And there I felt like I was at home and they gave me everything. And they made me also who I am today. So Celtic was special.

51:07John Obi Mikel:If I just going to go back to Spurs again, I want to talk about one man. the man that run the football club for so many years daniel levy now he left the football club what was your dealings with daniel levy how did you see him how he ran the football club because a lot of people were saying daniel levy was so stingy he was not paying a lot of players a lot salary and he was not buying the top top players he doesn't want to spend money to take spurs to the next level. Do you believe that's true? Do you believe that the criticism that he got was fair? I would say I don't think the criticism that he received was fair because you know at our time we were always up there you know performing well and trying to compete for everything but also the players have to want to come you know and that can be the issue you know the The price nowadays is crazy as well.

52:06So, Levy being the guy he is, you know, the business guy. He doesn't like to spend money. He's not going to buy, he's not going to pay 100 million for one player. But credit to him also. The players that he was bringing in, they were really good. And they, you know, with the price tag that they came in with, they were really performing. I want to ask, of course, John had Frank Lampard at Chelsea. Spurs at Dele Alli he burnt right for a very short period of time how good though was Dele Alli tell us a story Victor just about how good he was Dele Alli was special Dele Alli was special talent and he was the guy sometimes to go to you know from nothing the game can have just nothing and he will he'll just come up with something and he wins you the game.

53:03But also, you know, the football, also the people you're around with, and also if they're not giving you the peace of mind and you're not in a good state of mind, it's difficult to perform. And I really feel for him. I still believe Dele Alli could do the job still at this time. He just needs to get somebody who can, you know, give him a hug and look after him and get him back to his best again.

53:31John Obi Mikel:Yeah. You know, when I hear the stories about Dele Alli, it's a sort of a sad story because we know how good he was. And he is and he can be. Obviously, he's going through so much. You know who Dele Alli reminds me of? Morgan Rodgers that plays for Aston Villa right now. Same kind of play. Morgan Rodgers, when you see him play, it reminds me of Dele Alli. the way they glide when they run past players is just absolutely fantastic to watch both of them. So for me, Morgan Rogers is that guy that reminds me of Dele Alli. Just let's go back to now. Let's go to the national team of Kenya. You guys will host, obviously, your brother is the vice president now of the Kenyan Federation national team.

54:20John Obi Mikel:And we've just had him now. He's told us about his vision and where he wants to take the Kenyan national football team to. Do you see you will be hosting the Nations Cup in two years? What is the expectation that you have for the Kenyan national team for the next AFCON? We did host the Chan here. and the chan nobody expected the team to the local players to perform the way they did and you know that means also with the fans at home here you know anything can happen because I believe the boys did really well and if you just add a little bit of quality from the local best players and make them you know train well they can do something in front of our fans.

55:15I think they can beat anyone. Just good preparation and the spirit they showed during the chan. If they showed the same spirit and also, you know, get the support they got during the chan, I think we could be a problem. Victor, John asked this question of your brother. I want to ask you this question. Who, in your opinion, is the best African player of all time? For me, it's tough. We have a lot of African dreads. To be honest, we have a lot of African dreads. The likes of Eto 'o, Drogba, Yahya. Everybody says Eto 'o and Drogba. Mo Salah is also in that conversation. Yes, more Salah, Sadio Mane.

56:09I would say from what I've seen, Eto has done a lot. So I'll always go with Eto. But even though I know the respect for other players they deserve is big. Because they have done well for Africa.

56:27John Obi Mikel:So going back to that, because I always want to know how we can grow African football, how we can develop our own, our young players, our youth, to make sure that they get to the level that they can get to in terms of playing in the Premier League, in the Italian League, playing in Europe. What, in your opinion, do you think can be done, in your own opinion, can be done to see our youth, our academy, get better and produce the next Victor Wanyama, the next Jonube Mikkel, the next Didier Drogba, Samuel Eto 'o? What more can we do? I think it's just investing in infrastructure, giving the youth the chance, focusing on our grassroots football and making sure we have well-established leagues for the youngsters.

57:20Trying to produce more academies, support the academies. And like that, I think we could make a lot of really good players that can go far and, you know, represent the country in European big stage.

57:36John Obi Mikel:Talk about academy. I think you and your brother, you guys have, is there something you guys are doing with academy here in Kenya? Do you want to tell the Kenyan people what you guys, you and your brother are doing? Yeah, we have been building an academy in the outskirts of Nairobi and the place called Busia. And it's been really tough because the standard we want to put is like, I would say, the one-class academy. So it took us a lot of time. Now we are on the pitches and we are trying to do everything right. So very soon it will be up and running. Oh, wow. That's amazing. You're trying to give back to the community, which is so nice because you are from this country.

58:23John Obi Mikel:You've played in Europe. You're well established. And now you're coming back home to give back to your people. Exactly. You know, we didn't get the opportunity that we are trying to give right now. So it's always important to give back like this, you know, give the young players, you know, the same training that the European young players are getting. And like that, when they grow up to be good, good players and get the opportunity to go abroad, like they won't be surprised. They'll be up to speed when it comes to them getting the chance to go on the pitch and play. Is Victor Wayama still active?

59:07I'm just thinking now, maybe soon I'll stop because I had an injury and it really bothered me. So maybe soon I'll be coming to stop. And last one Victor, who's better, you or your brother? I'll say my brother is better because only one thing. He brought the Champions League home and I didn't. So I'll give it to him. You're giving me that. Where's your gentleman? Victor Wanyama. Victor, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much.

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