A Bigger Paycheck Won't Fix Bad Money Habits

22:40Dave Ramsey:What's your home worth? No, I'm in an apartment. I live in Los Angeles. Oh, okay. So you mean you just leave your... Yeah, okay. You're not leaving a home that you own. So you have$600 ,000 saved, and you make what at your job? $60 ,000 a year. Okay. And he's retired. He's not working. He's 71, and you're 56. 71, I'm 56. Yeah, okay.

23:15Dave Ramsey:okay, what would make you comfortable in the prenup other than all or nothing? You're assuming he wants all or nothing, right?

23:27Yeah, he's just nervous because he's 71 and wants to protect. And I said, listen, I want to go. Catholic is forever. You know, when you get married in the church, we don't prepare for divorce. And I don't want to prepare for divorce because that's creating that situation and that kind of fear of walking down the aisle together. And he's worried about his investments and losing half of what he's, you know, made because he can't go back to work, right? So, you know, we both love each other fiercely.

24:09Dave Ramsey:Yeah, we don't recommend prenups except where there's extreme differences in net worth, and this is an extreme difference in a net worth. And so I don't know why it represents—I understand Catholicism, and I understand marriage is forever, and I don't have a problem with that. And I understand that you are somewhat vulnerable if you leave your job, and then he decided he wanted to put you out and keep his 2.7, and you had your 600, and you had to start over at 58 years old two years from now. That's not fair to you. But the prenup could say that you got 500 ,000, but just not half of 2.7. And also I'm leaving Los Angeles, my home, my family, my work, my whole community.

24:57Dave Ramsey:You're leaving a$60 ,000 job and an apartment in Los Angeles. So financially, you're not leaving anything.

25:08I'm sorry? Really exist up there.

25:12Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry. Say one more time. You're muffled on that. I work in the entertainment industry also, which doesn't really exist up there where he's at. Okay, that's fine. So you're giving up a$60 ,000 job. to move in with a multimillionaire and be married to him. And if you get a divorce, you would want something to start your life over with to offset that 60 ,000. And I just said, you know, the prenup could say a half a million dollars of his money goes to you. At that point, you'd have 1.1 million and looking for a job. I think you could survive. I'm not suggesting that that's going to happen. In this situation, statistically, it's much more likely that he dies than you get divorced.

26:06Dave Ramsey:Agreed? Yeah, I never see us getting divorced. Yeah, I mean, I don't see you getting divorced either. But I'm just saying, so what happens to his money when he dies, in your mind? Does he have grown kids? oh neither of us have children um yeah this is this is the prenup is just for i know i'm asking you what have the discussions been what happens to his money when he dies uh we haven't discussed that but that would be something to know it would that's much more likely to happen than divorce i'd really want to know that right right i'm sure it would go to whichever spouse is alive at the time I'm not sure.

26:49Dave Ramsey:He wants a prenup. Right. So let me just tell you. We're just being cold and calculated, not romantic, okay? Because you called and asked about this. You called Dave. We'll let Rachel do the romance, okay? I'm too old for that. But the deal is he's 71, you're 56. I'm going to give you a 90 % probability he dies before you or before you got divorced. In that case, there's a 90 % chance you should be a lot more worried about what happens to this money on death, and you haven't even discussed that. Right. I mean, we've discussed a living trust, and I guess that's where that would take effect. Yeah, but a living trust can have a different beneficiary.

27:38Dave Ramsey:does all the money come to you at death if it does that changes the discussion on the prenup a little bit but i don't to answer your question overall i don't think it's uncatholic i don't think it's lacking in commitment when the when there's an extreme difference in asset base to get a prenup If you were two 22-year-olds that were broke and he wanted a prenup for his collection of Pokemon cards, I would tell you not marry him, okay, because he's not committed to the thing. But you're not two broke 22-year-olds. The guy has$3 million almost. You got almost a million dollars. And you're two grownups, to say the least.

28:23Dave Ramsey:And so, yeah, it would be normal to get a prenup in your situation. Yeah. I don't think what he's asking for is completely unreasonable. But it would also be normal to offset your question that in the event of a divorce, you did get something substantial of his to offset what you gave up in Los Angeles. That's right. That's right. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think and it feels like 20, 30 years ago, the automatic knee jerk reaction to a prenup is, oh, gosh, I'm preparing for divorce. I'm preparing for divorce. And as we just talked about as time's going on, they're becoming more and more common. And probably out of some wisdom, maybe not all by any means, but in some situations, the wisdom minute of planning for him, because if I'm in his seat and I've built this and I'm not able to go back to work and something happens and half my net worth is gone and the thought of me having to go figure out how to continue to live my life.

29:20You know what I mean? Like there's a, that makes sense to me. Like that on his end too. But your knee jerk reaction, Nancy, of that, I hear that a lot. And I think that's fair. I felt that for a while.

29:31Dave Ramsey:But I don't think it necessarily means that. In fairness, when we came on the air 30 years ago, we told people, don't get a prenup. If you can't combine your stuff, they're not worth marrying. Forget it. And we were just hardcore about it. But the more we went along, the more we found in coaching people that the problems that happen that a prenup does away with are more to do when there's an extreme difference in net worth. So, like, I had a lady for real call up one time. Her fiancé wanted a prenup to protect his sports car. And I'm like, he loves a car more than he loves you. Don't marry him.

30:05Dave Ramsey:He's a twerp. And so he doesn't need a prenup. He needs a dog. And so, you know, that's different, right? But, you know, if you got$10 million and the other person's got zero, the other thing the prenup does is it keeps the weirdness out of the extended family. because extended family is like oh she married a multi-millionaire and here comes you know cousin george cousin eddie rolls up in the rv right and uh you know he wants to talk to the new hubby about his new plan yeah let's talk to you i want to open a pizza plan yeah i want to open a pizza place with hubby's money and and you're like all that stuff goes away because you just go i can't do anything i got a prenup and it helps you deal with extended family that's nuts and him too for that matter It keeps them from thinking you're a gold digger.

30:54Dave Ramsey:And, you know, so where there's an extreme difference, we are good with his suggestion. But I do think you make a valid point that in the event of a divorce, the very unlikely event, that you get something.

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32:28Dave Ramsey:Grant is in Miami. Hi, Grant. How are you? Hey Dave, hi Rachel, how are you guys? Little north of that in Fort Lauderdale But I am 24 years old I'm making about$150 ,000 a year I have a high yield savings account set up With about$40 ,000 in it But I'm maxing on my 401k I'm maxing on my Roth IRA as well Moved down here about 18 months ago from Arizona So buying a boat has been on our mind And I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it to take about$16 ,000 out of that$40 ,000 in my high-yield savings account and purchase a boat. Guess I'm just calling, right, trying to figure out, you know, I need someone to tell me it's a good idea.

33:11Just kind of thoughts and opinions. I believe it's okay, right? I'm going to start rebuilding that, you know, high-yield savings account, light back up. Again, I'm maxing up my 401K and my Roth IRA.

33:23Dave Ramsey:And you're debt-free except your home? No credit cards. I'm renting right now. No credit cards, no student loans, nothing. Don't tell you something, my money every month is my rent. No car payment. Okay, so you have no debt. You have no debt. Are you there? Correct. Yes, sir. Okay. Just making sure. You're saying that out loud. You have no debt. Okay. And you make$140 ,000. Yeah. Okay. And you're 28 years old, and you have$40 ,000, and you want to use 16 of that to buy a boat? 24 years old. Oh, I'm sorry. And you want 16 of that to buy a boat. Okay. Yes, sir. Well, the rule of thumb that I use and that we've taught for years, and it works pretty well, most people, Grant, make the mistake of spending money, lots of money, too high a percentage of their net worth, too high a percentage of their life on things that go down in value and then wonder why they're broke.

34:25Dave Ramsey:Now, I love boats. I've got two master crafts. I was playing on them all weekend, throwing the grandkids around on tubes mercilessly. OK, so I'm a boat guy, a lake guy. I'm with you. All right. And but boats and cars and motorcycles and lawnmowers and sea do's anything with an engine or wheels or a battery goes down in value. And if we have too much of our life tied up in things that go down in value, we're always going to be broke and wonder why. And we call that middle class. Because middle class has a car sitting out front of the house that costs almost as much as a stupid house. And then wonder why they're broke.

35:09Dave Ramsey:Okay? That's where that comes from. Rich people don't put money in things that go down in value. That's how they got rich. So all that to say, the rule we came up with was no more than half your annual income in things that have wheels, batteries, or motors. And that includes boats and cars. So what's your car worth? The 2008 4Runner, more than 10, less than 15. Okay. So you're going to spend more on a boat than you spend on your car's worth. You have$30 ,000 tied up. You make$140 ,000. It meets the guideline. baseline you're not putting too much into the boat the boat is fine but that that speech goes with it that you have to use that mentality not just go i think it's okay to buy a boat because that's what people say and you're not going to borrow money and it's not going to be more than half your annual income and stuff that has wheels and motors so you're fine to buy the boat what kind of boat are you looking at for 16 grand it's a fantastic deal it's a 188 hurricane Okay.

36:13It's ocean boats. You're a lake boat. Yeah, it is. Yeah, so I'm from Arizona, so it's a whole new ballpark for me, right? Lake boats. So saltwater, but it's a great deal. Going for$20 to$18, and I said$16, and they agreed to it. I put my heart out there. I'm a first-time boat owner. It's a single engine.

36:35Dave Ramsey:It's going to be my first time, so they agreed to$16. So you're trailering this boat with a 4Runner? No, sir. Oh, okay. I live on the marina. Oh, okay. I'll have a slip here. This is another thing which I'm worried about. I don't like monthly expenses. I don't. You're getting ready to have one. Yep, in terms of a boat slip, right, which is going to be$450 a month, which freaks me out. Yeah, good. But I tell my girlfriend, and she's like, man, you're making$150, and I don't spend anything. I tell everybody, I'd rather look at money in my account than look at a car or look at anything. Well, you're getting ready to have way more tied up in the boat than you have in the car, and you're using the car every day, and you're using the boat occasionally.

37:18Dave Ramsey:And so let me tell you what not to do with the boat. Let me tell you what not to do. This will make you throw up. Don't ever figure out how many hours you spend on the boat and divide that into what it costs you because it'll make you throw up. It'll be thousands of dollars an hour. Yeah. That's what you're going to end up spending. But that's part of owning a boat. yeah i got the mastercraft this weekend i looked down it's got 120 hours on it yeah but he said well yeah and his is a 16 000 and he said he works from home in the in the place you know he may be on his boat a lot i'm not saying that i'm just saying you know there's a whole lot of stuff in this that's giving me pause okay i'm 24 and it's the best deal on the planet uh both of those things scare me okay but i think still i think you ought to go buy the boat i think you're gonna have the experience you gotta do it it's not gonna break you i think you've overthought it too He's not 160 ,000.

38:13Dave Ramsey:Go enjoy it. Yes. Yes. You're fine. Grant, you are fine. Go enjoy it. And I think you're probably a guy that asks this many questions about something like this is probably going to be okay. It's the ones that go, I just took out a$480 boat payment for the$450 slip and I drive a$4 car. That's the ones that kill me. Okay. So yeah. And that we get those all the time too. So Grant, I think this is in the guidelines of wisdom, but in the middle of all that, we have to give you all of our speeches. Yep. Well done, Grant. Well done. David's in San Antonio. Hey, David, what's up? Hey, thanks for taking my call.

38:51Sure. I have kind of a unique situation. I'm 74 years old, never married, no kids, lived in the same house for 45 years. No debt, absolutely no debt. A couple hundred thousand in savings and a couple of luxury cars and whatnot. But my neighbor, who owns the lot next to me, says, Dave, you know, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but we want to buy your house. And you can live in the house for the rest of your life, but we're willing to come up with a cash sum and give it to you. And I said, well, let me think about it, whatever. Went to my family members, and then I realized you're the ace in the hole, okay?

39:38you know so i don't know what to do you know i know when i die i'm going to be separated from the house and my neighbor's a good neighbor you know now you you could sell it to him with a life

39:49Dave Ramsey:estate which is what he's proposing i probably wouldn't do that you're you're still probably you could live 20 years easy and 20 years from now things change a lot so uh what i would do is say tell the neighbor that for now I'm going to put in my will instructions for the house to be sold to you for market value by the executor of the estate and that then the proceeds will be distributed to my kids. I don't have any kids. I thought you said you went to your family. Oh, family members, you said. Who are you leaving your money to? My brother. I have nobody to leave my money to. You don't have a will, do you?

40:35Dave Ramsey:No, I do not. You need to get a will tomorrow, if not today. Everyone needs a will. Yeah, and in the will, you could leave instructions. The executor of the will is the one that executes the terms of the will. And when you name that person, it could be your brother. You could say, I want this money. I want this house to be sold to the next-door neighbor for market value by having an appraisal done. Market value of like today? At that time. No, at the time. At the time. Yeah, at the time. He can buy it at the time for market value. I'm not going to sell it today. Because I think they want. They want to lock in the price.

41:10Dave Ramsey:That's right. Yeah, no thank you. Well, could he, like as a gift. You could leave it to the neighbor at that price. You could do anything you want. It's your will. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you could say, put a number on it today. I want to sell for this many hundred thousand, whatever it's worth today. But I don't want to sell it because I want that house in my name still and all of that. And I can change my will later. Yeah. If something weird happens. Yeah. If the neighbor decides to go off, you know, go crazy over there or, you know, they die. What happens if the neighbor dies first? You know, I don't need the house in their kid's name and I've got a life estate.

41:50Dave Ramsey:So there's too much that can happen over those years to a non-family member situation to do a life estate. I wouldn't do a life estate, but I would do a will immediately. Yeah. Go to momandbeerlegalforms.com, David, and you can just do a state-specific will there. It's pretty simple, but your family will, your brother will thank you. Everyone will thank you. You leave a mess behind if you don't have a will. Well done, though, David. Debt-free and all.

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43:43Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Mary is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Mary. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I am really good with money. I would like to think I work for a nonprofit. I make enough money to get by, and I am fully out of debt, and I'm very careful with how I spend my money. However, I've been having some health problems, and a doctor sent me to get an MRI and did not explain to me how expensive it would be. I have a bill for$3 ,128.56.

44:31It is very far outside of my budget, obviously. And I've been trying really hard for years to save up enough money to get a decent used car, and this would set me back a lot. and this is not the first medical bill to set me back. This is just the biggest one. So I've been told to either, you know, some people are saying to get on a payment plan, but I hate being in debt, and even if I get on one, it's going to drag out for a very long time. How much do you have in savings, Mary? I have a little over$13 ,000 right now in savings.

45:05Dave Ramsey:Okay. Why did insurance not cover your MRI that your doctor requested? surprisingly that is the bill after insurance covered quite a bit and i have a decent insurance policy no you don't and you don't have a decent and you don't have a decent doctor either because an mri and you can buy an mri in the open market if you just walk in with cash for 350

45:33Dave Ramsey:and not$3 ,000 after insurance paid. MRIs are not$10 ,000. So I'm really curious why your insurance company and this MRI place have screwed this up so badly. It should be nowhere near this level of bail. Was it only an MRI? Is that all that was done? Yes, there is one MRI that was done. without dye and one that was done with dye. They were both done at the same time in the same day, and I was in and out in 40 minutes. Yeah, it's super strange. Yeah, it says typical ranges is often$100 to$1 ,000 out of pocket, depending on your deductible. We advertise for companies on local radio stations as$350.

46:19Usually without insurance, cash pay is$400 to$2 ,500. But$3 ,000 after insurance, yeah.

46:29Dave Ramsey:No, something's wrong. Okay. So the first thing I want to do is I want to call my doctor's office and be nice until I don't be nice. We're going to start with nice, but we may not end with nice because they need to call this MRI place and they need to get your insurance straightened out because they don't need to send you over there and get your head taken off and get you ripped off. Acting like they don't care because they don't care. Stinking medical people. and so um man just makes me mad so after you finish wearing everybody in this story out i want you to wear them out i want you to give them three thousand dollars worth of hell okay starting with nice but ending up with three thousand dollars worth of hell the doctor the insurance company the mri place and everybody else because this is absurd okay then if you have to come out of pocket with more than 500 bucks i'm changing doctors and I'm probably changing insurance.

47:31Dave Ramsey:And I'm never going to go back in that MRI place again and I'm going to post online how bad a ripoff they are. I'm serious. If I'm going to get screwed, I'm going to have some fun with it. Well, and also, insurance, billing, all of it is notorious of either over-parenting. Screwing up stuff. Yes, screwing up something. Yeah. And I hate to say it. I hate that we have to be such advocates for ourselves in this stuff. But call and call and have them check, and they're going to send you to this person. I mean, it's going to be a pain, Mary. But a lot of people, I mean, we find it all the time that there are so many errors and stuff.

48:06Dave Ramsey:If it takes you three hours and you save$3 ,000, you made$1 ,000 an hour. Yeah. So wear them out, girl. Have you, though, Mary? Have you called? Yes. Yeah, I've called every office. I've called the doctor. I've called the MRI place. And I've called my insurance. and they all said that it was processed correctly, it was coded correctly. If they recoded it, it would be insurance fraud. Bullcrap. My next question is do I – I agree. But do I show up in person with printed documentation and ask them to explain it to me? I'm not sure what to do next. Yeah.

48:47Dave Ramsey:It just depends on how much you want to fight it. but I'm gonna they are ripping they are ripping you off for a cash MRI they're charging you 10x what they should yeah okay and if you got two of them in 40 minutes we can count that as one we can count it as two in which case 700 bucks so I'm gonna call and tell the office administrator y 'all are screwing me and I'm getting ready to go to town on social media and wear you people out I'm going to make a hobby out of you. Have you heard of Instagram? Have you heard of Nextdoor? Yeah, but threatening them. No, I'm dead serious. Oh, it will. Yes, it will.

49:25No, I don't think it will, Mary. I'm going to have some fun with it.

49:29Dave Ramsey:If I've got to write a$3 ,000 check, I'm having some fun with it. I'm going to bust or chops. Some of us don't have the energy. I know. If you don't want to do it, write the check. So, Mary, Mary, I'm talking to you, Mary. But no, you don't put it on payments. Write the check. Write the check. Write the check. But I would, yeah, I mean, I definitely stick up for yourself. And it's just a thing going forward of like, what am I going to pay out of pocket? What is this? Let me go shop around and see what I can find, right? I mean, it's part of that. That's part of, I mean, that's how I feel with health.

49:58I mean, you got to advocate for yourself. But there is a point that the price is the price. Whether they're screwing you or not, it is what it is. And so, yeah. So you may have to just pay it, Mary.

50:06Dave Ramsey:But I'm going to let my doctor's office know, too. I no longer trust you people. Well, that and if this is going to be an ongoing thing with your medical issues, then yes, I would for sure become more informed with third party other places that can do this type of thing. Ask around, right? Just so that you have more information next time something like this comes up. Because it is scary. If someone's like, you need to go do this and this. But an MRI ordered by your primary physician should be covered by your insurance policy. I mean, if you have decent insurance. Yeah. You're buying in a back alley or something.

50:41Dave Ramsey:But, I mean, if you've got decent insurance, MRI ordered by your primary should be covered. Now, it might fall under deductible. Right. That's possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even then, and still, they overcharge. So this is a cash MRI purchase. What's the price? You know what? You could just call up anonymously and just go, hey, I'm shopping around for MRIs. Call that place and go, what do you charge if I walk in off the street for cash? and then call and tell them you're going to hand that recording over to your attorney yeah oh my god these people it's just a ripoff it's an absolute ripoff steven is in charlotte but i'm not going to get to steven because i'm heading up on a commercial all right i'm just trying to move on god because it pisses me off i know it does some of us we don't got that we used to have the healing arts and now we have the medical industry The what?

51:30We used to have the healing arts, and now we have the medical industry.

51:36Dave Ramsey:And I'm the freaking widget. Oh. I don't want to be your widget. And not everybody, not all medical, not that everyone. Not all of them. No, no, no, no. But the system is set up that way. It's a tough, yes. It's set up that way. The insurance companies are, it's a. Yep. Now the insurance, that's the. Yeah. I'll get on your conspiracy theory thing on this. Yes. Next segment. Stick around.

52:00Thank you.

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53:59Dave Ramsey:So here's a good plan on your medical.

54:09Assume that no one has your back, and that'll be a good start for you.

54:18Dave Ramsey:assuming the opposite sets you up for unexpected bills and ripoffs. So we have sat down with people to do coaching for the last 30 or 40 years that have a list of medical bills as long as your arm and they're considering bankruptcy. And as we do a full audit on the medical bills, we often find the same charge three and four and even five times. And then we remove all of those, and then we go in and we find Tylenol at$64 a pill in a hospital bill. We actually see these numbers, okay? And there are a few people out there that have a neat side hustle that all they do is audit people's medical bills for them and make a portion of what they save them because they discover the overcharges and the duplicate charges.

55:20Dave Ramsey:So don't just assume that these people have their act together. Some of it is with malice, but most of it is just unbridled incompetence. the people doing the billing are dumber than a rock. Okay, not all people. No, I'm telling you, there's no excuse for this level of incompetence. There's no excuse. And it's industry-wide. I agree. You open a medical bill, automatically assume it's wrong. But it's just like any other industry, a mechanic can screw you, or they're a great guy, right? There's a few great guys. They're not 100%, but there's so many bad. You have to be careful. There's so many bad that don't know what they're doing.

56:00Dave Ramsey:or that have malice that you cannot just assume it's all, oh, they sent the bill, I just have to pay it. No, you don't. First and foremost, you've got to audit it. Before you get to that point, you don't ever enter a procedure without understanding what your out-of-pocket liability is after insurance is paid. And if you're going to be covering an MRI, 350 is the going rate. Walk up and tell them, I'm cash out of pocket, and they'll do$350 or go to a different MRI center. There's MRI centers on every corner. They're like Baptist churches. They're everywhere. So they're not hard to find. And, you know, don't automatically assume that if your dentist tells you you need$25 ,000 worth of work, that's gospel.

56:51Okay?

56:52Dave Ramsey:It's not a biblical reference. It's a dentist. not all dentists are bad but go get a second opinion go get a third opinion go get ask the question what can i do this not 25 000 where i can still chew food and you know i figure out you know you have to learn about this stuff when you're in it or it will bankrupt you the number one cause of personal bankruptcy is medical number one cause and it's all related back to this stuff where you don't check out what you're doing and the doctor's office half but pays attention they just send you over to the same old place they've always sent you to nobody looks at it until you look up and three thousand of your thirteen thousand you had saved for a car is gone that's a lot percentage wise and it should have been 350 bucks if anybody in the whole story had paid attention ahead of time or cared enough to take care of this poor woman it's her it's your job to care for her.

57:55Dave Ramsey:And when you don't, you deserve to lose the business. And I'm going to another doctor and I'm definitely never going back in that MRI center. And I'm about to possibly change insurance over this because you're going to stink and do what the contract says. And when I come out of there with a bill that's 10 X higher than I could have paid in cash, and that's after insurance, something's wrong. Yeah. So a hundred percent chance something's wrong. And, but here's the thing folks the lesson you take from that call is you've got to preset all of this before the procedure so you know what's going on the only exception is when there's an emergency and you don't have a choice yeah that's a hard thing too sometimes something happens medically and you just got to do what you got to do to yeah and then you still got to go back through and audit it yeah because you cannot assume competency because they're not it's the i mean if any of those accounting people work for me i'd fire no okay and i know i just yes i hear you i hear you but i have friends who are nerd i have friends in that industry and there is a level of and i wouldn't say incompetence but complication if they enter this it goes to this pro i mean it's a it's a lot of stuff moving parts and do they all get it right all the time no and sometimes it's such a confusing process and then you go send it to the insurance companies who i mean it all it's all It might be confusing to you and me, but it's like their job.

59:22It is.

59:23Dave Ramsey:It's their job. So they need to learn to do their job. That's competency. Yeah, but when it gets sent to a different department, they use a different code. That's what I'm saying. That department needs to be competent. I just feel like. I'm not saying the nurse did it. I don't know who did it. But whoever ended up sending me this bill, this triple bill, somebody's an idiot. Somewhere in the chain is an idiot chain. Okay. We got it. So it's there. Okay. All right. Tammy is in Houston. Speaking of medical, she's got a medical situation. What's going on, Tammy? I would say, is your blood pressure too high?

59:58I'll protect you, Tammy.

59:59Dave Ramsey:Can you imagine how bad it would be if it was actually my bill?

1:00:06Okay, here it is. How can I pay for brain surgery if I'm broke?

1:00:11Dave Ramsey:Whoa! That's a little step. So do you have insurance? Yes. I have a little HMO plan. It's terrible, but we got it. Okay. And what type of brain surgery? Bless your heart. I'm an epileptic, and I have taken 17 different medications, and I've had four different brain surgeries, and now they're just going to go in and cut out the part of my brain that just will not stop. Wow. Oh, my gosh. have well to talk about we were just talking about on this last call have you do you know what you're going after insurance and everything do you know what is going to cost my out-of-pocket max is 17 000 17 000 and and then anything else or it's covered past that i i think so if that's the out-of-pocket max it should be 100 okay it should be 100 percent after out-of-pocket max.

1:01:13So you got 17 ,000.

1:01:14Dave Ramsey:That's not a bad HMO. That's a great one. Oh, good. If it's covering, if you have a stop loss at 17K, that's pretty stinking cool. Okay. So you got deductible plus 80, 20 to a certain point and then, wow, that's good. All right. So how old are you, hon? I'm 42. Wow. When do you think you're going to have this procedure? it's one of those as soon as possible like i said last year in 2025 i probably had 200 seizures

1:01:49Dave Ramsey:do you have any idea actually when the surgery might be scheduled

1:01:55then whenever we can figure it out so my husband lost his job about a year and a half ago and our Dave Gramsley emergency fund lasted us a whole year. Me and my husband and our four teenagers, we've been doing awesome, but we're just broke. Has he found another job? He wanted to own his own business. He's been working on that, and then he didn't earn enough, so then he went and got another job in sales. But he was taken over for a guy that was retired, and so for six months the guy got it, And then after that, all the accounts were cold. So he's trying. He's like working three different jobs, but it just is taking a while.

1:02:37Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Well, it sounds like you don't have a$17 ,000 problem. It sounds like you have a career crisis on your husband's side. Yeah. Yeah. So when he solves that, the$17 ,000 is going to naturally be solved, right? Yeah. So do you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You have the surgery whenever, and you get them to$17 as quick as you can. They'll bill you, and then you pay the bill when you can. I'm not going to tell you not to get the surgery. But, yeah, but he's got not only because of your surgery but because of your family. I mean, it's over a year now he's not had gainful employment. He needs gainful employment, meaning he gets paid, not a pipe dream.

1:03:20Yeah. And then the goal would be maybe throw$2 ,000 at this a month and get it paid off in less than a year, right, when it all happens.

1:03:27Dave Ramsey:Exactly. Oh, sorry, Tammy. Wow. We're praying for you.

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1:05:10Dave Ramsey:Stephen is in Charlotte. Hi, Stephen. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I am about$70 ,000 in debt, and I just don't know how to get out of it. What kind of debt is it? What kind of debt? Credit card debt and medical debt. How much is credit card? um i have it i have it broken down amex is 4300 and capital one is 6800

1:05:44um and then i owe on my car 25 000 um i have some of the debt enrolled in a debt consolidation program um it's been enrolled for about a year and a half um but i just i'm just not seeing anything go away. And I've got stuff that's on hold that's not anywhere. What's the medical debt? How much?

1:06:09So I don't have the whole total, but I have $1 ,800, $3 ,700, $500,$600, $4 ,000, $2 ,200, and$3 ,600. Oh, wow. Okay. How much do you make a year? Um, hardly anything. I make about$2 ,200 a month. Um, I found myself in this situation because I, I lost my job, um, January, 2024, um, because of my own stupidity. Um, I stole from my employer. So, you know, I was fired, I was arrested and everything's just gone downhill since then. Okay.

1:06:49Dave Ramsey:Wow. What were you doing? What was your job? I was working for a furniture store. Doing what? Uh, inventory management. I was making about$53 ,000 then. And then everything was fine. All my bills were paid. I had no debt. What's the nature of your medical? I had to go under anesthesia twice within a year just because I was choking. I don't even know what the condition is called. something I can't pronounce, but I had to go under anesthesia in order to not be choking anymore. And they did a surgery, obviously, while you were under, but you're saying the bill was mostly the anesthesia. Okay. Yes.

1:07:41I gotcha. What are you doing now for work? I work for a grocery store. Okay. And how many hours a week are you working? It's 40 hours. Okay. Full time. Were you convicted of a felony?

1:07:57Dave Ramsey:It was dismissed. It was dismissed? Yes. Because I did a pretrial intervention program. Okay. So it's expunged. Okay. Expunged. All right. All right. So that's not holding you back because it's not on your record anymore. It's not holding me back at all. No, correct. That's not on my record. Okay. And that took about an entire year. Yeah, I bet. So you're six months kind of out of all of that fog, really. Yeah. Yeah. And I have a license to sell real estate, and I'm with the brokerage, but it's hard. I'm a new agent, and so it's just hard. I can't make any money in it, so that's why I'm still at the grocery store.

1:08:47And I've got only$300 in savings, so I've got nothing. When all this happened, I drained my 401k and any of the savings. What is your car worth? The car worth?

1:09:02Dave Ramsey:It's a Toyota. It's probably worth$37 or$38. And you owe$25? I owe$25 on it. How are you paying that bill with all this other stuff going on? I make it work. Yeah, that car needs to be sold. Yeah, sell that car. I work, sell the car. Yeah, and buy a car for cash with a difference. For sure. You could buy an$8 ,000 car. Yeah, because how much is your payment a month? $400? $543. Yeah, so that frees that up. That changes your life. It was$7 something because it was a lease, and then the lease came due or to an end, I think just this past April. Okay, Matthew, you make$20 ,000 a year,$30 ,000 a year.

1:09:49Dave Ramsey:You don't need a$25 ,000 car debt. It's killing you. So you need to sell it and get an$8 ,000 car that you pay cash for. And then the rest of your situation is all career-oriented. And so it's a matter of lining yourself up with some kind of a career, whether it's real estate or whether it's something else. I don't care where your income goes up because you're worth twice what you're being paid in the marketplace. You have proven that in the past. And, you know, you made a mistake. You paid for it. You went through all the hell associated with it. You lost your job. And now you get a restart. And you start with that's going to be part of your story in the past.

1:10:28Dave Ramsey:But it doesn't. As a pastor friend of mine says, you're not defined by the worst thing you ever did.

1:10:37Dave Ramsey:You're not defined by the worst thing you ever did. Thank goodness none of us are. It's a part of my story. I have a scar. I have a mark. It hurt. I feel guilt. I feel some shame from it, but it's not who I am. You see the difference? I do. Yeah. And so you've got to get that part emotionally, spiritually in your rearview mirror and then go, okay, I'm 18 years old again, and the world says I can be anything I want to be. So now what do I want to be, Lord? And what's my next step? and yeah and that could be real estate i don't care but um you there's no you don't have to live in the prison of working for half of what you're worth in the marketplace because of a past mistake that's a self-made prison and i was working seven days a week i was i was valeting cars and i'm making some good money with that but i mean i was no you weren't you were valeting cars That's not a career.

1:11:41Dave Ramsey:That was a side job I had. Yeah, it was making some money to keep the wolf away. Some money. But you don't want to be that 10 years from today. So 10 years from today, who do you want to be? Now let's start taking the steps to be that, and we'll work the side hustles or whatever to get there. But if we work side hustle valet and cars while we're trying to get the real estate thing going because the real estate thing's the thing, fine. But if the real estate thing was just a thing and it's not the thing, then what is it you want to be when you grow up? You know, kind of thing, right? So we're going to send you a copy of Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

1:12:18Dave Ramsey:It's got an assessment in it. I want you to take that. I want you to sit and do some time in prayer about what you're supposed to be 10 years from now and get the car sold. Great first step. Seriously. selling the car. I'm like, that's from a financial perspective is going to relieve you so much, but also, yeah, for sure. But, um, and I think, you know, there, there is a freshness still 18 months after all of this for you, Steven, that's very, very real and very honest. But I do think the more confidence and the more wins you have out in the marketplace, the more that you're going to find this level of dignity back to, to who you are.

1:13:01And, and yeah, and if you can find that intersection with your work of what you're passionate about, what you're naturally good at and gifted at, like all of that combined, this could be seen as a completely fresh start, which is beautiful. That's the beautiful part about redemption.

1:13:17Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And grace is that you get that second chance. So we, yeah, we're cheering for you for that. Yeah. I got a friend of mine who was in the bottle for about 15 years and he just got his 15 year coin the other day. If you don't know what that is, if you're in 12-step, Alcoholics Anonymous, or any kind of a program, you get a coin for so many days, so many months, whatever. And he's been dry for 15 years. And, you know, he's extremely successful today. But he was truly at the bottom. And just virtually homeless, virtually lost his family, everything. Completely turned this all around. And changed everything.

1:14:00Dave Ramsey:It changed everything. And now he's, again, but, you know, he is not defined by what he used to do or used to be. He's defined, not defined by it. You're not defined by that unless you choose to be defined. I'm not defined by the fact that I was stupid, went deeply into debt and filed bankruptcy when I was 28 years old. I learned from it. It hurt. I don't want to do it again. I don't recommend it to anybody. But it's not who I am. It's just part of my story.

1:14:58Dave Ramsey:Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is, term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance now. And most people are surprised by how affordable term life really is, even if you're not in perfect health. Look, I understand the hesitation since most insurance companies make it more of a hassle than it needs to be. Not at Xander Insurance. They're not an insurance company.

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1:16:22Dave Ramsey:If you want to go from in debt to wealthy, in debt to incredibly generous, there is a shortest, quickest, most efficient path. We call it the Baby Steps. We have proven it with tens of millions of people to not only get people out of debt, but also into wealth, becoming Baby Steps millionaires. And the fastest way to do that is with a game plan. And the game plan is tied to an app called EveryDollar. You can download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. It's going to put you on a budget and walk you down the Ramsey plan with personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation, much like you were calling in here on the show.

1:17:03Dave Ramsey:You're going to hear the same kind of stuff. It's going to push you to do the same kinds of things for you to win. It's not there to sell you anything. We're not going to sell you on debt. We're not going to sell you on three easy payments. We're going to sell you on the opposite, and that's getting out of debt and into wealth. Every dollar. Download it for free in the App Store or Google Play. Carrie is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Carrie. How are you? Hi, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Thank you so much for taking my call, Dave. I'm sorry I get so emotional. I'm seeking guidance with my new situation as a widow.

1:17:42I'm wondering, can I buy a home elsewhere where I want to be, not where I'm at, and raise and homeschool our seven-year-old daughter as we have been, and then work maybe once a week or something to keep my skills up at my job and then have my retirement secured with what I have. Oh, Carrie, I'm so sorry. Thank you. Was it sudden? Yes. Okay. He was diagnosed on Thursday and passed away Friday.

1:18:13Dave Ramsey:Goodness. Oh, my gosh, Carrie. How old? Completely unexpected. He had just turned 53. oh my god i'm so sorry how long ago was this it was in may mid-may just the other day wow oh carrie oh i'm so sorry um okay so what's your what is the financial situation now did did he have life insurance um we had a we had a life insurance policy so there's 350 000 there okay We had saved up. We have about$30 ,000 in the bank. We had, and then I have his pension coming in and Social Security. Social Security is very minimal. I have a seven-year-old daughter. We have a seven-year-old together. But we also have a daughter, 19, from his previous marriage.

1:19:03So between my seven-year-old and I, we have about$700 in Social Security. And his pension will be about$4 ,300 a month. Okay. Everything before taxes right there.

1:19:13Dave Ramsey:And you're living in a home you don't want? I do not want to. I mean, the situation is that he had just retired. I went back to work. I'd been homeschooling my daughter for three years. I went back to work full-time doing contract work on the road, and he, as retired, took over homeschooling, and we were out doing contracts in the hope of finding a new place to settle down because I promised that I would live in Texas for 10 years and then at that point. Okay. So where do you retire? Then we would go where I want to be. Where do you want to go? I'm not sure. I honestly don't know. Possibly Utah, where I have a lot of very close and supportive family, but I don't know.

1:19:58Okay.

1:19:59Dave Ramsey:Okay. Well, that'll be the first step, right? You own the home you're in? That's one of my biggest problems. We owned the home. We paid it off years ago, but I did not have my name on it. He bought it the year before we got married. We paid it off together over five years, and then we never put it in. We didn't have a will or anything, and so now by Texas state law, the home goes 50-50 to our daughters, and I own nothing of it and only have the right to live there. And I can't do anything about it unless I want to have it completely drug through court. Oh, I'd completely drug it through court.

1:20:39Yeah, what's the home worth?

1:20:41Dave Ramsey:uh 240 yeah i'm 240 000 worth of drag it through court yeah is there a spousal there's no there's no spousal protection an attorney told me that that i would have my i would have to pay every single year to have uh for 11 years for my seven-year-old to have representation uh for her to make sure anything that happens in her best interest and that it can't be sold until she turns 18. Yeah, I think you need a new attorney. I don't know Texas law, but that answer, given the circumstances, is weird. So it doesn't mean that it's not true. It might be true. Again, I'm not an attorney, and I don't know Texas law.

1:21:26Dave Ramsey:Texas has some unusual real estate laws.

1:21:31Dave Ramsey:But I do want to most... At this point, go ahead. At this point, what? You're going to walk away from$240 ,000? No. Right. I know. It seems insane. I've basically been told I have the right to live there for life. Yeah. I know what one attorney told you. I'm telling you I'm going to get another attorney. Okay. And then with the money that I have from the life insurance, what do I do with that? Can I put that towards another house? Am I better off to invest it for my retirement? I don't have a retirement account now. Okay, are you able to live on$5 ,000 a month? I could live on it. Okay, so you have that coming in, his pension, his social, okay?

1:22:18Dave Ramsey:And if you sell the house, half of it today, half of it goes to the 19-year-old, and the other half goes with you with your 7-year-old, right? Right. So you're staying there for a while, no harm, no foul, even though you don't want to. I'm going to sit there for a minute. Can she take the 120 and put it towards the house? But you can't because it's the settlement. The child owns the money is what she's been told. Again, I'm getting – I want some other legal advice on this. I'm not accepting. I've researched on a little bit, and that seems to be the truth. Yeah. But I will seek other. It may be.

1:22:59Dave Ramsey:It may be. Okay, so let's assume that it is. Assume you're stuck with that solution, okay? then what I would do is this normally when someone passes away what we tell the remaining spouse is try to make no major decisions for a year yes if you can not do anything like that if you can just because it takes a little while especially with something this sudden Thursday to Friday diagnosis to death wow um you know it just comes at you so hard it takes a little while to just be able to breathe yeah yeah and we can hear it in your voice and I don't blame you. And so what I would do is live on$5 ,000 a month.

1:23:37Dave Ramsey:I would park the 350 and something very like a high yield savings, something very innocuous and just sit there a little bit and cry. That's all I would do. And give yourself some time to breathe. Now, when you can breathe a little better, six months minimum, probably closer to a year, we can make a decision about whether we keep the house or sell the house based on the information we gather between now and then. But in the meantime, just sit there. It's not costing anything. And a little bit of, you know, utilities or whatever, it's not a big deal. And it might be half of it be your daughters.

1:24:19Dave Ramsey:And so you do want to take care of it. Let's just sit there and get where we can breathe. And then we talk about, okay, if we sell the house and move to Utah next spring when the grass gets green in Texas, what are we going to do? Are we going to take the$350 and put it down? Are we going to invest it? And what am I going to do for my career? What were you doing? Contract. What kind of work? Lab scientist. Okay. And if you worked one or two days a week, Carrie, doing that, what extra? How much could you make? So one day a week, I figure I can make about$1 ,200 a month in Texas. Texas does not pay well at all.

1:25:03Dave Ramsey:But you don't even have to decide that today either. Okay. But, you know, so long term, we've got some career choice that we want to do, where we want to live, what we're going to do with that particular house, and what we're going to do with the$350. All right. But it's pretty easy to say, you know, if things go the way it feels like right now, you're probably going to be in Utah. You may or may not have control of some of the equity of this house. You are a cautionary tale for everyone to have a will. But I'd probably go 50-50 with the money. Put some on a house. Keep some in investments for retirement.

1:25:45Dave Ramsey:Forgot to ask how old she is, but she's got a seven-year-old. So she's got the ability to make some money. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Just take your time. Just take your time, hun. I'm sorry you're facing this. So sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, MamaBearLegalForums.com. You can have your will done in just a few minutes. Everyone needs a will.

1:26:18Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Matthew is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Matthew, what's up? Is it worth going back to school and going into debt for a job that will bring me more fulfillment if I have a financially viable path already in front of me? No. Hands down? Hands down, I wouldn't go back to school and go in debt. I might go back to school. What is it you're wanting to study? Nursing, eventually be a nurse practitioner. Okay. Why don't you just pay for it?

1:27:01Kind of expensive.

1:27:03Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I know, but just pay you could do it. What do you make now? Right now, so I have a degree in environmental science. I've been working for nonprofits for the last several years. As fulfilling as it was, it was certainly not lucrative. So I'm kind of starting over. Environmental science has things that aren't as fulfilling, but are for profit that pay double what you've been paid. Yes, sir. So I had already transitioned. I'm currently working in medicine. I'm using an EMT certification through college. Will they not pay for your nursing degree? no sir not entirely i would still especially with a master's program on top i would probably be looking at 30 or so in debt oh that's not much okay good so that means you come up with 30 cash you got this where are we going to get 30 cash and you think that that would be worth it even if i can stay the course and be making a similar amount without that debt in a similar amount of time with my current company.

1:28:10So the pay doesn't change when you become a nurse. You'll be paying what you're going to pay, but you think you would enjoy the nursing side way more long-term.

1:28:18Dave Ramsey:Right. What do you make now? About 45. You make a lot more than that as a nurse. Yes, sir. So the pay does change. So this is an entry-level position with a company, and I do see a path to increase that significantly over the next 45 years. or be looking at about four to five in school to become a nurse practitioner. Okay. And after that period, I think the pay would be possible. Okay. So number one, I'm a huge believer in education that adds opportunity that's real in the marketplace. Being a nurse is an excellent field as opportunity is everywhere. Being a nurse practitioner is right next to being an MD.

1:29:04Dave Ramsey:You can do a lot of stuff as a nurse practitioner that's in the$100 ,000 to$150 ,000 range. A lot. Okay? We work with them every day. It's a great field. Love the idea of going there. Would I pay cash for it? It's the only way I would do it. Can I get scholarships from a hospital or a medical organization that wants me to work for them and will furnish all the pay for this? Because there's always a nursing shortage. Always. And so hospital corps always are looking for nurses and always willing to help people become nurses, especially if you commit to work for them for a while. And so I'm going to investigate those kinds of things if that's where you want to end up.

1:29:48Dave Ramsey:I'm not making this decision purely on what you can make. I'm making the decision based on what you want to do with your life. And I'm making the decision based on what kind of opportunities you have. and again nursing and nurse practitioner are excellent opportunities in the marketplace and have been for decades.

1:30:13Yep. Thank you for that.

1:30:15Dave Ramsey:But pay cash. I think I had made my initial schooling decision based around what I was passionate about and where I wanted to end up and I ended up in a position that was not financially viable but I understand that the return on investment for something like nursing is very different. Yeah, that's true. But again, it's not going to be, we're not going to tell you to go into debt to do it. And I would not go into debt to do it. I'm going to find a way to work around that. And as an adult going to work as an EMT inside a hospital situation of some kind, that'll put you on the rolls and they'll start writing checks for scholarships and start writing checks for tuition.

1:30:53Dave Ramsey:And they do it all the time. And you pay, you know, and you work your way through, you know. If it takes you, if it takes you a year longer, so what? Not a big deal. But, you know, you're not a traditional student where you just get to quit life and go sign up and work 24 seven on going to school. You're not 18 years old. So this is adult time now. So the way we do this is going to be different while you earn your way all the way through it and or who you're working with or who you're working for. And also back to your other career. Keep in mind, the career field wasn't the problem. It's just you chose to work in an underpaid situation in your field because you were looking for some kind of a meaning in the nonprofit world.

1:31:40Dave Ramsey:And that may or may not be there. I don't know what you were doing. We didn't get that far into it. But that's the thing. So, yeah, yeah, we're big on education. And the other thing is this, too. When it comes to your nursing degree, nobody cares where you go to school. never one time has a nurse come in to draw my blood and I say wait wait wait where's your degree from never once never once did I talk you know have we had have I in an internet of nurse practitioners we've had them as concierge never once I don't know where the guy went to school I have no idea where he went to school my current doc I do not know where he went to school and he's my primary.

1:32:23Dave Ramsey:Do you know where yours went to school? I don't really have... I don't have one. You don't have a doctor? Okay. Good. You apparently don't need one. Terrible. That's okay. I see my OB. I do what I need to do. If I get sick, I go to the walking clinic. Do you know where your OB went to school? Sweet Dr. Martin. No, I do not. Okay. I do not. Yeah. I probably could. I should know. He's virtually a family friend. He delivered half the Rams. But, yeah, we don't we don't. None of us know where he went to school. We love him. And the camels. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but. Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

1:32:59Dave Ramsey:Oh, George camels, too. There you go. So he's he's he's around a bunch of us, but none of us know where he went to school. We just like this idea that where you go to school matters is a lie. So what you want is the least expensive school that has a reasonably good level of knowledge that they're going to transfer to you. We don't want you to be dumb when you graduate, but we also, this idea that you came from some famous school and that is some kind of an ingredient in success is the biggest lie that has ever been told about higher education. And so nothing. The only time I've ever seen that was I graduated from the University of Tennessee and I was interviewing for a job.

1:33:39Dave Ramsey:And I went in for a job interview and I went to Middle Tennessee State University for one year before I went to UT. and the guy had on a MTSU in a Middle Tennessee ring. And I was so dumb in the interview. I went, oh, you went to MTSU? I used to go there too until I upgraded and went to UT. I didn't get the job. The upgrade. Yeah, I insulted his school, so I didn't get the job. But yeah, that's when it mattered where I went to school. But other than that, I don't think nobody ever cared where I went to school. All they cared was could I help them. Do you think, though, a small percentage of the country, when you're looking in certain industries, small, small, small, 1 %?

1:34:17Dave Ramsey:Yeah, really snobbish, country club, you know, 1 % of the job shop. Well, I just think of like hedge funds, like all those, like, you know what I mean? Yeah, if you're going to go— Small, small— If you're going to get hired by a bunch of guys that went to MIT, you probably should have gone to Harvard or MIT. Right, right. Yeah, but otherwise— But for a majority of all of us. In the real world out here where the rest of us live, nobody gives a rip. Yep.

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1:35:46Dave Ramsey:buying or selling a home is a high stakes proposition we had a caller the other day his mother-in-law had sold their house for 330 000 the appraisal came in at 375 000 and apparently the real estate agent had made the mistake of pricing it too low and they'd already sold the house is under contract. She lost$45 ,000 by choosing the wrong real estate agent. Yeah, you need a pro in your corner. A mistake in the real estate business has zeros on it. That's huge. You need somebody that knows what the flip they're doing, that does a lot of transactions, high protein, high octane, baby. Ramsey trusted, we vet real estate agents to have the right level of experience to guide you step by step and avoid these expensive mistakes.

1:36:38Dave Ramsey:Connecting with a Ramsey trusted, vetted real estate agent is pretty easy and it's free. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the description. Zoe is in Seattle. Hi Zoe, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just had a question about what I'm a college student and I was wondering what my moral obligation is to paying back my mom for college debt so far and kind of while I'm in school and also like how to tell her I don't need her help anymore or I don't want her help with money anymore. Does that make sense? So did you, before you went to school and before she started paying for it, did you agree to pay it?

1:37:26Dave Ramsey:Did you have an agreement with her? I did not. Technically, I did not. She is a single mom, and so it was never in her mind to save for me growing up. And a year prior for me going to school was just kind of like saying, I'll take care of it, I'll take care of it. And then this last year, my first year of college, it seemed to be a very black male situation, and it was very much putting a loan in my face and saying, I'm doing this. I'm paying this, so you have to do this. And I kind of just want to tell her to get out of all of that and help her pay it back. Yeah. Well, okay. You ask if you have a moral obligation to repay someone that did something without your agreement.

1:38:19Dave Ramsey:If you shook hands or you looked at your mom and said, Mom, if you do this, I promise to pay you back, then you would have a moral obligation. If there was no discussion where you promised to pay her and she said, I'll take care of it, and she sent you to school, and then later on she decides she wants you to pay her back, no, you do not have a moral obligation. Okay. Is that logical to you? Yeah, that makes sense. I guess it's just when there's money kind of being tied to someone, it definitely makes it difficult. Yeah, it's different when your mom's a travel agent for guilt trips. Yeah. Yeah.

1:38:54Yeah. And you might, Zoe, you know, like depending on with the relationship and all that, you may be out of school in a few years working and deciding I'm going to just write her the check eventually. And just so that there's nothing there just from a relationship standpoint. But at that point, someone that can't relationally have the IQ to be able to be with you, right, and to be your mom, and that's still holding that over your head, even if you paid it then, it probably still wouldn't make her happy. You know what I mean? That's an odd.

1:39:26Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's a strange thing. An odd thing to put over your kid. To hang stuff on your kid's neck. So where are you in school? I'm going into my second year of college so I'm still very much in it yeah so how are you going how are you going to finish I'm going to work my way through it honestly I chose to do an in-state school that was cheaper in general and my first year was more just because of housing and all that and for my loan but this next year I'm planning on not taking out loans and paying for it myself which is also kind of a problem because she, even though she doesn't want this loan, she still, or guilt trips me about it, she still has, like, this weird want to, like, push through with me attaching my name to loans for the next few years, and I'm, like, very against it.

1:40:21Dave Ramsey:Yeah, so you're working and you make enough to eat and go to school. Yes, I do. Good for you. What are you doing? um right now well i'm going to school for marketing but i'm just a server but in seattle i make a good amount of money to live on and my school is cheap enough where i can afford it yeah boy well done so there's not many of you so there's a loan taken out whose name is the loan in it is under hers okay then it's her problem and just for just that for the first year she didn't pull like all four years or something? No, it was just the first year, and this next three years should be a lot cheaper because of the housing, and it's a quarter system around here, so it's cheaper in general, and so I'm just planning on paying in cash.

1:41:10Yeah, just tell her, say, Mom, you said you're

1:41:12Dave Ramsey:going to take care of it, so the loan is on you, and I'll pay for the rest of school, and I love you. Thanks. Is there any advice you have for me having a conversation with her? because especially right now, she's wanting me to sign a loan for the next year. Like, how does that conversation go? Yeah, don't do it, Mom. Do not go borrow any more money, Mom, because I'm not paying any of it, and you don't need the load. I got it, Mom. I'll take the last three years. Thank you. Okay. Please don't take out any more loans because you're going to have to pay them, Mom. Yeah. Is there any weird legal thing that her mom could still?

1:41:48Dave Ramsey:It's a Parent Plus loan. She could take the loan out in Parent Plus and use it herself. right fraudulently yeah but but then she's got to pay it herself so right it's all on her but don't let her don't let her use the excuse of using the loan in any way and blaming it back on you just emotionally don't do that it's not a legal problem 100 you're not liable for a parent plus under any circumstance and weirdly zoe this may say i'm i feel like i'm sounding like you i'm a little paranoid. Would you text the mom after the conversation recapping? Mom, just again, thank you so much for what you've done.

1:42:25I have the next three years going forward.

1:42:29Dave Ramsey:And the first year Parent Plus is on you because you said you had it. I don't know. Screenshot it? I'd send an email and then I wouldn't do a text. I'd send an email and then print a copy of the email off and keep it in a file. I don't know. I may do that, Zoe. It's not a legal thing, but it might come up later and go, look, mom, I told you. Look, Here's what I told you. Here's what I told you. Because her memory's weird. Yeah, exactly. I feel like that's happening right now. That's a good point, Rachel. Yeah, that's not paranoia. That's a good point because she changed the deal once. She'll change it again.

1:42:57Right. Yeah, for sure.

1:43:00Dave Ramsey:Yeah, so I'll send her a little one-page email. Again, honoring. Thank you for the help the first year. And just a reminder, you told me that you had college covered, so that first year is on you. I will take care of the next three years. please do not take out any more loans for me. I've got this covered. Thank you for what you've done for me. I love you. And just leave it at that. Something very simple. Don't try to preach a sermon at her about how she's supposed to do something. Leave all that out. I know it's in your head, but don't say it. Yeah. And Zoe, if you need a one-on-one, you know, in-person conversation, you can have that too.

1:43:35But I would just put something in writing.

1:43:37Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I just want to have it in writing in case you wanted to pull it out of the file later and say, Mom, look here, I clearly told you. Zoe, what kind of school are you going to? I'm just curious. I'm going to, you probably have not heard of it. It's Central Washington University. Okay. It's in between, yeah. Is it just like a four-year? It's a four-year school. Yeah. It's a four-year, yeah. And you're getting a degree in marketing? Marketing and entrepreneurship. Oh, you're amazing. Good for you, Zoe. You're going to do so good. So great. You're scrappy. Scrappy. If I have another second, I do have a question really quick.

1:44:10Real quick. about should I transfer because I do make more money living where I went to high school versus where I go to school college without is it going to be smart for me to transfer to do online school and make more money that way or no I think I'd stay the course where I am right now you've got

1:44:29Dave Ramsey:it lined out and you can pull it off right now if the only way you could pull it off would be online I might but I like what you're doing right now I'd stick with that for today if if something gets crossways later you can always switch over but um and keep in mind that you know you got to make sure anytime you're moving stuff back and forth that all the credits transfer and you don't have to start something over again uh and some schools match better with others than not so you want to be sure to check all that out if you're going to make a move i personally wouldn't i'd probably stay the course just because i you've got this so dialed in i don't want to mess with it

1:45:32We'll see you next time.

1:45:36Dave Ramsey:All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:46:25Dave Ramsey:Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? One financial mistake doesn't have to define the rest of your life. If you've gotten behind and gone into fault on your private student loans, Y-Refi can help you explore low fixed rate refinancing options and affordable payment plans. Go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Cassie in Idaho. I'm on baby step two and putting all extra money each month to my student loan debt. After learning about sinking funds, I started setting aside some money to save for future expenses, such as gifts, car and home repairs, property taxes, professional memberships, et cetera.

1:47:10My sinking fund is growing about$2 ,000 each month, and this is separate from my starter emergency fund. Should I continue building the sinking funds, or should I be throwing that extra money, including my sinking fund savings, towards the debt? Yeah, on Baby Step 2, there shouldn't be many sinking funds. I mean, I think it's smart to know if you have a car that's going to need a lot of repairs throughout your process of paying out debt, putting some money aside to build for that so that if it comes, you know, you're able to. But that's also what your emergency fund is there for. So no, I would not be doing that many sinking funds at this stage.

1:47:48Now, once you get past baby step three, that's when you have a little bit more of that luxury to do that kind of thing. But unless you see something looming in the future that you absolutely have to do, then I would be putting every money, all the rest towards debt.

1:48:03Dave Ramsey:Yeah, 100%. Now, for those of you who don't know, a sinking fund is just simply a savings account within your budget. And so you're saving money for, it's a miniature savings account, you're saving money for stuff. So you're not saving money for a future car purchase while you're getting out of debt. No, you're not saving money for a trip while you're getting out of debt. No, because you're getting out of debt. You pour everything on the debt wide open, scorched earth. So you should not have a lot of miniature savings accounts, hardly any, to Rachel's point, while you're getting out of debt. And again, for those of you who don't know, a sinking fund comes from actually a business term when you're doing retained earnings or you got a piece of real estate as an example.

1:48:47Dave Ramsey:For instance, if you purchase a piece of real estate and you say, well, the roof has five years of life left on this commercial building. And so you start setting aside, you know, 20 % of the cost of a roof per year so that five years from now you have enough to pay for the roof. It's a systematic savings program for repairs and replacements in a commercial building setting. That's where the phrase comes from. or if you're in a business that uses equipment and you have 10 trucks on the road that do heat and air HVAC repair, well, you systematically need to replace those trucks as they age. And so you would have a systematic thing in your business budget called a sinking fund that goes into retained earnings to do that.

1:49:37Dave Ramsey:That's where it came from. And we just pulled the terminology over and put it into every dollar. And now we've got consumers with sinking funds for Christmas. which for somebody in the real estate business is probably a little bit humorous. But anyway, that's really what it is. It's a miniature savings account for a future event. That's all it means. And it means you save up for it and pay for it, and you don't go into debt for it in the future. But right now, while you're getting out of debt in baby step two, you really shouldn't need a bunch of them. All right, Nathan is in Jefferson City, Missouri.

1:50:08Dave Ramsey:Hi, Nathan. How are you? Oh, not too bad. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. How can we help? hey so i got a question on on a truck i i don't know if i should buy a new one or if i should just fix mine okay how much well what i was gonna ask how much is it to fix the truck but what kind of truck is it how old is it it's uh 21 years old 2005 dodge cummins i i have 22 500 into this truck right now and it's going to cost me at least$7 ,500 to get it fixed. How much does it work? I'm going to be in it almost$30 ,000, like$10 ,000. Okay. What's wrong with it? The transmission just went out in it.

1:50:59Dave Ramsey:What are you using it for? I was using it to drive back and forth to work, but, I mean, now I'm just having to ride with people because I work on the road. you you work on the road yes sir i i'm a welder on the road okay so you're traveling with business yes sir and how are you how are you making your traveling with that you're riding with other people on the traveling or the company's producing your travel uh i'm i'm riding with with other people like in their own vehicles it's not like i mean yeah i'm just riding with other people to work. Would you have been doing that anyway, or would you have been driving this old truck on the road?

1:51:41I would have been driving my own truck. Okay.

1:51:44Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you guys travel and do welding. Is that what you said? Yes, sir. Okay, and normally what you would have done is just drive. Everybody drives their own car to the job site, but it's all over the place, right? Yes, sir. Okay, what do you make?

1:52:01Dave Ramsey:$1 ,900 a week. Would you say$9 ,900? $29 ,900. $29 ,900. A week. A week. Yes, sir. Okay, so you're making$150 ,000 a year. Yes, sir. Good job. Good for you. That welding thing's working out for you, brother. All right, so is the truck paid for? Yes, sir. I paid it off three years ago. Good for you. Okay. Well, a$10 ,000 truck, we don't do a$7 ,500 repair to. Okay. I would rather just sell the truck and buy a$10 ,000 truck. Okay. That I don't have to repair. If you want to do that. Do you have any money? Yeah. I mean, I got money saved up, I guess. How much? I don't know. Right now, like$10 ,000.

1:52:56Dave Ramsey:Okay, good. And what would the truck sell for as is? a couple of grand a lot of people have told me like 7 500 oh really okay so if you took the the 10 000 you saved up do you have any debt uh no sir good for you are you single uh i got a girlfriend i have two kids where's all your money going um well i don't really know honestly i mean i i've i've tried to i put a new new motor in it A couple months ago, that was$9 ,000. I paid cash for it. I have a farm. I'm buying cows. You own the farm? It was in a will. My mom passed, and it's mine now, but yeah. And you're buying cows on it? Yes, sir. Who's taking care of the cows with you on the road?

1:53:49Dave Ramsey:My dad. Okay, interesting. All right. So how much in beef do you own? What's that beef worth? In Missouri, I mean, a cow-calf pair would be like$4 ,500. Yeah, how many of them you got? I have 10. Okay, so that's like$50 ,000 worth of cattle right now. Yes, sir. Okay. Did you pay that for it, or that's what it's worth? That's what it's worth. I did not pay close to that. Most of them was what my mom had got. Okay. Answer to your question is I would take some of your money and sell the truck and put that$7 ,500 with some of your money, maybe$7 ,000, and buy about a$10 ,000 or$15 ,000 truck that's 10 times better than the one you got.

1:54:38Dave Ramsey:That's the answer to your question. But the second thing is you're making too much money to not know where it's going. And I don't want you to wake up 10 years from now and go, I made$150 ,000 for 10 years. That's$1 ,500 ,000, and I have no idea where it went. That's no way to live. So you need to know where this freaking money's going starting today. Ready, set, go. That's the grown-up part. And start investing, Nathan, if you don't have a Roth IRA. Start some stuff now. Yeah. That's going to set you up well. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, which is how we teach the stuff here, the baby steps.

1:55:16Dave Ramsey:We work you through every bit of this. Pay cash for the truck. You need an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. You need to start investing 15 % of your money into a good retirement plan. And you need to keep buying cows. It sounds like you're good at it. And you're making great money. Is that baby step 4B? Buy some cows. Buy some cows. There you go.

1:56:08We'll see you next time. Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out$87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles? Just me? Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money, so it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created EveryDollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. EveryDollar's simple, it's clear, and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to-dos, and reminders along the way.

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1:57:04Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 2.9 No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no human mind has conceived the things that God has prepared for those who love him. Catherine Hepburn said, as one goes through life, one learns that if you don't paddle your own canoe, you don't move. That'll work. Fun stuff. Hey, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. We simply can't. There's no possible way. The lines stay jammed most of the time. You can go and get an absolute Ramsey answer by using the tool Ask Ramsey. It's our AI tool that's built and trained only on Ramsey data and Ramsey input.

1:57:49Dave Ramsey:So you're going to get a pure Ramsey answer. Nothing from Reddit. Nothing from TikTok. No, it's all Ramsey. You get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here? It's almost as sarcastic as I am. It's the boomer. Almost as nice as Rachel is. So ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or click the link in the description. or on the podcast on YouTube, and it'll set you up with the AI tool, Ask Ramsey. My prayer for the future of Ask Ramsey is that you get to put in which response you get to click, which response, if it's like an app one day, you get to be like, I need a Dave response, or I want Rachel to tell me this, or I need Deloney.

1:58:30Dave Ramsey:I want Jade, I want George's nerd response. Yes, whatever it is, just to get your own little flavor. See, I always think they should have changed Siri for men into their wife's voice. For the wives to have all the answers of everything they need. The wife's voice is like, because then the men will listen, right? I'm just saying, hypothetically. All right, Susan's in Flint, Michigan. Hey, Susan, what's up? Hey, how are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Good, glad to hear it. Well, the question I have, we lost my dad back in January. so unfortunately there's been a little bit of a shift in the income mom has coming in now.

1:59:12Everybody agrees we want to keep her in the home that they've lived in for 60 plus some years. And in order to do that, they put mom on an extremely strict budget. um dad kind of spoiled her maybe spent money they they didn't have to spend um and she would just ask and get um so this is what the siblings that are managing her plan this is kind of what what they're up against um but they've done a complete u-turn and you know basically she's given a hundred dollars a week to live on um for everything and she's now in a situation where she needs to buy the pens and she needs to buy insured drinks.

2:00:03So I just, I have a different, a difference in opinion. She lives in a home that, that she could take a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of equity out of. And I wonder if they should be considering a reverse mortgage for her.

2:00:17Dave Ramsey:No. Reverse mortgages are, they're horrendous. You know, but on the other hand, a hundred dollars a week? I didn't say on the other hand. You asked me if you should do a reverse mortgage. I said no. Yeah. I wouldn't do a reverse mortgage. I saw the house before I did a reverse mortgage. Yeah. Oh, gosh. They're a nightmare. They're an absolute nightmare. The foreclosure rate on the reverse mortgages is six times the normal foreclosure rate. Okay. And I haven't, in all fairness, I haven't really researched it. Does she not have any other assets? um well they they lived their life they traveled a lot um and dad had even gone to the bank with the idea that he was getting to the point where he might need to take some some equity out of their home to finish out their life um so the answer is she has no other assets she has about thirty one thousand dollars but out of that they're having to take fifteen hundred a month to pay her bills.

2:01:20Dave Ramsey:What's her? She doesn't have Social Security coming in? Yeah, yep. She's got a total of$1 ,450 coming in. And I've not run through her entire budget. My sister manages her bills. But I guess she's got, with the amount of money that's given her and my sister who cares for her, that's a total of$250 a week. And how old is your mom? My mom is soon to be 86. In fact, back in the hospital again, she's not in the greatest health, and she's got the onset of dementia. The thought of pulling her out of her house right now. I wouldn't. I wouldn't do that. I think your sister's probably doing a pretty good job.

2:02:05Yeah. She works hard. It's challenging. Not always easy for her when you have six brothers and sisters that judge everything that you do. But, yeah, they're managing.

2:02:18Dave Ramsey:Yeah. You know, your parents didn't leave much, but they used it all up right to the end. But with, sadly, I'm so sorry about your dad, and sadly with what you're telling me about your mom, this is probably not a long-term proposition. Would you agree with that? I would agree with that. I'm sorry to say that out loud. No, no, it's reality. You know, it might be a year or two, but it's probably not five statistically. Yeah, and my thought is with that being said, why not yank a little bit of money out of her house so that, you know, and she doesn't want to spend money on herself. She wants, because there's a lot of us kids, a lot of grandkids, she wants to be able to feed them when they come over.

2:03:08And a lot of times that might be ordering a meal out because she's not capable of eating. Most children don't have any money, you and your brothers and sisters? Okay, I'm glad. I'm glad you went there, Dave, because that would be a part two of my question. Most of us are just average people. A couple of us chip in, pay for house cleaning every month because it's a pretty decent-sized house so that my sister can devote her time to mom. But long story short, I do have a brother out there that's a multimillionaire, and he has done he's done a lot in the sense that he gives generous Christmas gifts and he would be there in a minute if

2:03:52Dave Ramsey:I would just make a proposal to everybody that we try to put together a$1 ,000 a month budget between six of us or a$600 a month budget between six of us and add to that$100 and it doesn't need a lot but just a little bit to be able to get through because it doesn't sound like we're that far off and I just hate to, I'm not going to tell you to get a reverse mortgage. There's no circumstance I'm going to use it. It's a piece of crap. If you were going to do something, I'd go get a little home equity loan, you know, for 50 ,000 bucks or something. But I think you're going to regret doing that when you're just a few hundred bucks a month off.

2:04:29Dave Ramsey:And so, you know,$10 ,000 a year changes this. That's 800 bucks a month. That changes this dramatically. If everyone pitched in a hundred bucks or something yeah and that's probably what i would do and everybody doesn't have to put in the same amount and some maybe can't put in anything but just so guys i think if we could put together 500 or a thousand dollars a month mom would be great and let's just you know let's all agree on what portion of that you can put in and what portion you can put in and maybe the multi-millionaire brother will pick up the balance i don't know i would if i was in that situation um um because especially the because it's not it's not a long sadly it's not a long term proposition right right that's a sad thing to say out loud sure sure but it's yeah doing a mathematical statistical analysis and sadly we step on people's feelings when we do that but yeah but that's because a thousand bucks a month out of her 31 000 that she has lasts a little over two and a half years you know so you could take you know what i could do that Take some more money out of that.

2:05:29And then when that money's gone, then we step in.

2:05:32Dave Ramsey:Yeah. You know? Yeah. She doesn't really need. I mean, of course, if she has a medical event or something, then we got to step in and cover the$31 ,000. That's true. Yeah. Either way, it's six, one, a half dozen other. But I'm probably going to use that up and or some of it, maybe take it down to 10. Maybe make$21 ,000 the next 21 months. We'll see where we are after 21 months. but um and and not aimed at you susan because you've had the right uh tone about every bit of this as we're talking about it but aimed at everybody else um because i'm at the stage of where we've got older parents and siblings taking care of older parents and so forth and my wife and i have a rule and i recommend it to all of you the brother or the sister that's on site doing everything, you guys shut up and help them.

2:06:24Dave Ramsey:Support them. Don't bitch at them. Stand by them. That's not aimed at you, Susan. You weren't doing that. But everybody, you know, the one that's over there doing the stinking work, taking care of somebody, take care of them. That puts us our The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.