A Proven Plan Beats A Quick Fix Every Time

12:21George Kamel:Okay, so it's definitely, we can expect an increase. Yes. Okay, that's what I was thinking, and that's kind of what I was looking for, and as I've been walking my wife through this and kind of saying like, hey, this is what our budget looks like, and this is how much money we've got. We've already stopped their retirement, so I'm bringing in about$1 ,000 a little extra a month, and then I just started doing Dolanash on the side. Cool. How much debt have you got? We've got about$31 ,000. There's about$5 ,000 in credit card debt. I can have that paid off very easily by the end of the year. And then part of this question also was that I have$26 ,000 on our siding on our house.

13:00George Kamel:Like right when we got in, there was a contractor door-to-door person who was like, hey, we can do your siding, your windows. And I was like, well, there's a couple holes in the siding. It probably hasn't been replaced in the last 20 years, so sure, let's do that. So I actually wasn't sure if that would qualify as debt that would be paid off in step two or if we should.

13:19Dave Ramsey:What's your household income?

13:23George Kamel:I'm making for my janitorial job about$64 ,000. I'll bring up about$4 ,000 a month. just recently since I stopped all the extra payments and stuff. Good for you. About$4 ,000 a month. I'd love to see you plow through it.

13:40Dave Ramsey:The way we decide if something is real estate debt or if it's baby step two is if the second mortgage, in this case the siding loan, is more than half your annual income. This is right close, so it's kind of on the bubble. So as far as I'm concerned, you could throw it either direction, but I'd prefer, if I were you, to be clear of it. as soon as possible. I mean, you can clear debt at what,$2 ,000 a month?

14:08George Kamel:We haven't. We just kind of started messing around with the every-dollar budget. I've got the free version. We're just kind of dinking around. And I'm thinking that it can probably be closer to$1 ,000, maybe$1 ,200. I don't think we can clear the$2 ,000. Okay. But we might be able to. You're getting started.

14:27Dave Ramsey:I want to aim that way. and if you don't clear it before you sell the house, that's fine. If you want to sell the house, you want to move up in-house, that's what you're telling me. Are you sure you can afford that?

14:40George Kamel:Well, actually, my wife is wanting to move down to Oregon, so that's another conversation that we're trying to have right now. That's a completely different twist on what we were talking about.

14:50Dave Ramsey:So are the houses going to be more expensive, the same, or less?

14:55George Kamel:We would probably go down because right now I think our mortgage, we got a 30-year first-time homebuyers thing. We got PMI.

15:02Dave Ramsey:If you're going down in mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from doing it immediately.

15:09George Kamel:Okay. You mean there's nothing stopping you from selling the house?

15:13Dave Ramsey:Yeah, and moving to Oregon. Okay. If you're going down in.

15:17George Kamel:I don't know if I would be able to make the same.

15:18Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry?

15:20George Kamel:You wouldn't make the same in a janitorial job over there? Yeah. So I work as a government contractor.

15:26Dave Ramsey:So the thing that's stopping you is you have to find a job in Oregon. That's the thing that's stopping you. Okay, so if you had that lined up, so I'm going to start looking for that and make her dreams come true because it also is congruent with, you know, clearing all these debts because the siding will be paid when you sell the house. You pay off the other thing by Christmas. And so it might be spring you have found the job and you put the house on the market and make your move in the spring, so maybe six months.

15:58George Kamel:All right. That's a lot faster than I was expecting.

16:01Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, it all has to do with you having housing that is the same or less price and you having a job.

16:06George Kamel:And you'll have, you know, the fees or associated closing costs, realtor fees, plus you're going to pay down the debt. So you won't have as much to put down on the next as you might think. So that might be another piece of the puzzle to solve. That might mean we're going to delay this for six months or a year. It's not going to happen tomorrow.

16:21Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And the other thing is, right now I hear you very excited about doing this stuff, and I'm excited that you're excited. She's at home fighting the bear with four kids. She ain't excited right now. Yeah. It's been growing on her a little bit, and I think she's been asking to have a budget date for a while. Yeah, so talk about where this takes us before you talk about how we get there. Talk about why before you talk about how. Talk about why until she finally says, I agree with why. Now, how do we do that? And then we start talking about what the sacrifices look like to get to the winning, to go across the finishing line.

17:02George Kamel:It's a dream day. So we get the why and then we go, okay, what must be true now? Let's reverse engineer it to figure out how we get there. Well, I need a job making this much.

17:10Dave Ramsey:Yeah. But I mean, I do stuff like he's doing. And that is, I find something and I get on it and I go down the rabbit hole and I binge. You know, I'm going to learn everything. there's no about it and then uh i've got 73 000 hours invested in this subject sunk cost and my wife has 73 minutes and then i expect her to not to understand what i'm saying and why i'm excited and so i have to go all the way back to the beginning and say why i got excited about this and then talk about what it means but oftentimes if you get excited and you start coming you go honey i got this great plan we're gonna sell your car that doesn't work okay

17:48George Kamel:that doesn't work at all coming in a little little strong there coming in hot coming in hot

17:52Dave Ramsey:yeah so yeah that that's a problem so jordan thank you for being a new listener hang on we will set you up with the every dollar premium version so you and your wife can accomplish these goals it sounds like you will do it uh again it's got to do with a career move as much as anything here and start working on it yeah you know you can find something there's no reason you can't get a good job in today's world it's it's very doable what are your parameters dave for when

18:16George Kamel:someone should sell a house in order to pay off debt?

18:20Dave Ramsey:If they like the house, almost never. Because unless the house is like a 50 % of your take-home pay or something, you can't afford it.

18:30George Kamel:So if the mortgage is far too much and there's no end in sight.

18:32Dave Ramsey:If the mortgage is reasonable and they like the house, usually the house is not the problem. I would prefer to plow through the debt. Now, if you're facing bankruptcy because you got so much debt and the sale of the house clears up all that debt and you don't have to file bankruptcy, Well, obviously, you're going to do that. Or if you hate the house. In her case, she hates the house. She's trapped in a small house with four kids homeschooling. And she wants out of Dodge. Oh, add to that, she wants to go to Oregon. Ah, so there's a whole other thing. Family and all that, the draw with the kids and get back to grandma.

19:02Dave Ramsey:All that kind of stuff. So that's all tied in. So this house is not something they want, or at least she wants, anyway. way he's willing to sit there for a minute uh if it means if it's the best way but the best there's no reason to stay in this house yeah they don't like it and they're ready to move to another state and everything else and so um yeah it's not a bad thing it's part of a bigger plan you're doing it

19:28George Kamel:for the right reasons not just well because part of it is we see people just sell the house but then no behavior change happens exactly just to get out of jail free card exactly and even if you

19:37Dave Ramsey:If you wanted to sell the house and it has that effect, that's dangerous. Because you need to build the muscles and the calluses. Because those bad decisions can come back. I'll never go back into debt. Yeah. I'll never go. You've got to be pissed about this stuff or you'll go back in debt because it's too prevalent. It's too pervasive. Everybody thinks you're weird when you're debt free because you're not broke anymore like they are.

20:09We'll be right back.

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22:08Dave Ramsey:James is in Atlantic City. Hi, James. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

22:16George Kamel:So I have recently moved to Atlantic City, maybe about seven months ago. I came from a small town, had no casinos, had no access to gambling where I was from. uh and since then i have picked up a pretty nasty habit of going to casinos um in the past couple of months i would say less than two months maybe six weeks or so i've lost about 45 to 55 thousand dollars of my money basically everything that i have um it started small started with little bets 25 here and there uh going out with some of my new friends that i met in town and then all of a sudden before i know it i was going out alone uh bets went up to 100 bucks a night and then 500 bucks a night and the next thing you know i'm going in two three four five thousand dollars a night and uh over the course of maybe a week and a half i really lost a big chunk and i tried to chase it and then over the past maybe three weeks or so i've lost everything james i'm

23:11Dave Ramsey:sorry how old are you honey uh just turned 25 pretty scary to be this out of control isn't it

23:18George Kamel:yep uh what's what's really kind of scary for me too is i don't i don't drink i don't smoke i don't do anything at all. I live a fully sober life. I don't do anything else. I've never had an addiction to anything, never used nicotine, nothing. So first real addiction I think I've ever felt. Yeah.

23:37Dave Ramsey:Well, you're feeling one. There's no question. I mean, you have all the symptoms anyway of somebody who's in the throes of that. You mean you're watching yourself almost an out of body experience do life destroying things and still do them anyway. That's the sign of an addict, right? Yep.

23:56George Kamel:And what's, what's really crazy to me is it's, it's like I black out whenever I go. I don't even, it just feels like I'm not even myself. And then the second I leave the casinos, it feels like I'm kind of back and I realized what I did.

24:09Dave Ramsey:Are you, are you working?

24:11George Kamel:Yeah, I am.

24:12Dave Ramsey:What do you earn? Sure. About 120 a year. Doing what? I own a business. Okay, good, Good. All right. Well, if I woke up in your shoes is how we answer questions on this show. George and I are not a PhD in counseling like Dr. John Deloney, who's on with us from time to time. But sadly, for 30 years, I've dealt with addicts and because 100 percent of addicts eventually have financial trouble. And so I'm afraid I've gotten to know something about this the hard way just by working with a lot of folks struggling with this. Um, so from the, that's the basis I'm answering the question on. So I'm not telling you I'm a clinical expert.

24:56Dave Ramsey:I'm not, I'm just a practical expert because I've dealt with so many people in your situation. So if I woke up in your shoes, what would I do? Um, I, I would do, uh, three things immediately as soon as you hang up the phone. Okay. One, I would find gamblers anonymous in your area and contact them. GA it's alcoholics anonymous for gamblers, 12 step program. And they have probably one of the better results of helping people with this than anybody out there. Number two, I would find a coach or a counselor, a therapist in the area that you can meet with one-on-one. And you make enough money to afford to meet with someone one-on-one.

25:38Dave Ramsey:And you need to start meeting with them immediately. You are in crisis. They got to give you language for the way your brain is functioning. so you can learn how both of those places will help you with that so you can learn how to navigate your way away from this. Okay. Now, you moved to Atlantic City to open this business?

26:01George Kamel:No. I've been there for here and there with him and kind of been out there. And then I guess you could say yes, technically. But I didn't move there to open it specifically.

26:12Dave Ramsey:It just kind of happened that way. Okay. What is your business?

26:15George Kamel:It is electronics.

26:18Dave Ramsey:What's that mean? So selling, fixing phones, computers, basically anything. If you don't have success doing those two things, and the third one I'm going to tell you is find a good church in your area and start developing relationships with good men that are not hanging out in casinos. Okay? If those three things together, Gambler's Anonymous, a therapist, and a good church, and revitalizing or causing for the first time your spiritual awakening inside of you. That's going to be part of your healing process. If you can't get those three things together to work, you have to move away from the casinos.

27:02Dave Ramsey:I live in Nashville. There's not any here.

27:05George Kamel:A big problem I've been really having recently is life has just become not fun anymore. or like daily things, or I don't get the level of excitement that I need from anything.

27:16Dave Ramsey:Well, it's a false narrative because what happens is that anytime you're in an addictive feedback loop, the addict's mind says the only fun thing is when I'm doing the addiction. And so everything else is boring.

27:34George Kamel:You're chasing that high, and so you always need the newer, better, crazier high, and that's what happened in your situation. So you're going to need to replace those habits with other things that are healthier. Do you have any hobbies currently? Not anymore. I mean, I used to be into sports and back where I was from, I had a lot of friends. But since I've moved up here, I don't really know many people.

27:54Dave Ramsey:You've got to rebuild a friend group intentionally as a part of this healing that is not going to casinos. Because you do become who you hang around with. You notice that, right? Definitely. And then they push me. I mean, the friends I go with, they bet big money. So it kind of pushes me to, you know. Yeah, you feel like a wimp when you're dropping 10 and they're dropping 100. Yep. Or they're dropping 100 and you're dropping, or they're dropping 1 ,000 and you're dropping 100, whatever it is. But, yeah, you feel like a wimp. And the opposite is true. I'm the biggest wimp of all, if that's the case, because I can walk through those places and watch other people lose money all day long.

28:33Dave Ramsey:It doesn't bother me a bit. But I don't feel pressured at all to join the parade of bodies created by these things. And, you know, I'll throw out one other piece of information. James, will you do those three things for me to take care of James?

28:48George Kamel:Yes. And something I've already done as well is Atlantic City has a government-funded, trying to think of a way to phrase this, kind of like a GA almost.

28:58Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Yeah, and I don't know anything about the inner workings of that or if it's successful, but I'm always suspect when the fox says to the hen house, here's how you fix it. You know, it's funded by the gambling people. I mean, I'm not saying it's nefarious. I don't think it is. I think it's well-meaning, but it's also a reaction to they had to do something because the PR around the number of lives they're destroying is pretty incredible. And so they had to say, well, if you have a gambling problem, dial 1-800-I've-got-a-gambling problem. And they put that after all the FanDuel ads now. After FanDuel made about$80 billion a minute off of people just like you.

29:42Dave Ramsey:And so it just pisses me off. But, yeah, that's not a bad move, but it can't be your only move.

29:50George Kamel:Yeah, and then on top of that, there might need to be some guardrails around your bank accounts and your finances to stop you from doing something rash and spending a lot of money. That might mean putting limits on your bank account so you can't spend over a certain amount. Or if you have a trusted friend that can keep you accountable, that's going to really help with this just to remove. Right now, you need more friction stopping you from doing the thing. So as much friction as we can add, removing apps, stopping you. I know there's some apps out there that can help with that as well as I was looking this up.

30:19George Kamel:Gamban, BetBlocker, there's all kinds of things out there that can help. But which one are you actually going to stick with and do? That's the question.

30:25Dave Ramsey:At the bottom line is, what's, man, Estriday, Scarcity Loop. Oh, yeah. Read Scarcity Loop by Michael Estriday. And it's a good book. It's worth reading. And any of you that are just interested in this subject, it's a full unpacking of how the feedback loop works in the brain on several different things.

30:54George Kamel:Scarcity Brain, Michael Easter? Scarcity Brain, thank you.

30:57Dave Ramsey:I called him yesterday. Sorry, Michael. God, mighty. Yeah, Michael Easter. Thank you. I know him, and he's been here and been on the show, been on stage with us, and I should have known his name. I apologize, Michael. Yeah, he's brilliant. My brain couldn't. Scarcity Brain. But it talks about this idea that we chase what we think is scarce, and the gambling addict is the primary thing that he gets into in this book, and it's a very interesting read.

31:26George Kamel:The good news is, Mike, James is young enough that he's going to recover from this, and it'll just be a giant stupid tax. Hopefully, he looks back on.

31:33Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Yeah. I lost$50 in one night when I was 21 playing a hand of poker. I didn't know how to play. The last time I played. Wow. That was 45 years ago. That's the hot stuff once. My addiction lasted one night.

31:46George Kamel:Short-lived.

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33:24Dave Ramsey:If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free EveryDollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month, and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. George, when's your next one?

33:38George Kamel:I think I've got one next week or week after that, and we've got Jade and Rachel up in the meantime.

33:44Dave Ramsey:All right. Depending on when baby comes. That's right.

33:46George Kamel:I'm on Baby Watch.

33:47Dave Ramsey:There we go. So we depend on that. They may have to fill in for you. So we're going to show you how to stick to a budget. And typically people find thousands of dollars, around$10 ,000 worth of margin using every dollar. So you can get out of debt, start building wealth. And you can ask us any question during the live Q &A. And it's really lively. You're going to enjoy it. Sign up for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. Stacey's in Texas. Hi, Stacey. How are you?

34:15George Kamel:Good. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call.

34:18Dave Ramsey:Sure. What's up?

34:20George Kamel:I have a question about what to do about my car. I am desperate need to get rid of it. The car payment is astronomical, and the interest rate is astronomical. And I'm trying to decide if I can do like a voluntary repossession. That would be on my credit because I'm about$20 ,000 upside down.

34:43Dave Ramsey:Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into this one?

34:47George Kamel:Yes.

34:48Dave Ramsey:Okay. Because typically a car won't lose that much unless it's a huge expensive car. So, okay, what kind of car is it?

34:59George Kamel:It's a Hyundai Palisade 2024.

35:01Dave Ramsey:Oh, geez. Okay.

35:03George Kamel:I know.

35:04Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And what do you owe on it?

35:09George Kamel:$57.

35:11Dave Ramsey:$57. $57?

35:12George Kamel:$5 ,700.

35:13Dave Ramsey:And you think it's worth$37 ,000?

35:16George Kamel:Yes, if that.

35:17Dave Ramsey:Why?

35:18George Kamel:More like$34 ,500.

35:19Dave Ramsey:Why?

35:21George Kamel:Because I've had it appraised, I guess you could say, at different places to see what I could get for it.

35:27Dave Ramsey:So you went to dealers and asked them what they would give you for it?

35:31George Kamel:Basically, yeah. Well, I also went to different car lots.

35:35Dave Ramsey:That's a wholesale, okay? That means they're going to buy it at a price that they can make money on it. And so that tells me that if you look this up on Kelly Blue Book, kbb.com, and look at private sale, if you were to sell it to an individual, that price is between wholesale and retail. It's between what a dealer will ask for it versus what a dealer will give for it. Okay?

35:58George Kamel:Yeah.

35:59Dave Ramsey:So my guess is... I did look that up.

36:00George Kamel:It was about$42.

36:02Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's more. Yeah. And I'm thinking maybe like$43 or$45 is what I was getting ready to say. So I'm making that up, but just based on the percentages of what it usually is.

36:10George Kamel:I'm seeing 41, 44 on here just looking them up at what they're actually selling for in the market right now, used.

36:16Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Okay, so that leaves you more like, so if you got 44 or 43 for it, that leaves you more like$13 ,000 in the haul. Yeah. And what is your interest rate?

36:28George Kamel:8%.

36:29Dave Ramsey:8%, okay.

36:31George Kamel:I know, it's so bad.

36:32Dave Ramsey:Okay, and so do you have any money?

36:37George Kamel:Not really. What's not really mean? Not really.

36:39Dave Ramsey:Well, what's that?

36:40George Kamel:Not really means.

36:41Dave Ramsey:It means you have something you don't want to tell me about. What is it?

36:44George Kamel:No, I mean, I have all kinds of debt. I have all kinds of debt, and I have other, you know, I have credit card debt. I have student loan debt.

36:52Dave Ramsey:How much other debt do you have?

36:55George Kamel:About$70 ,000. I have$10 ,000 in credit cards,$60 ,000 in student loan debt. Okay.

37:01Dave Ramsey:And another$10 ,000 in something else?

37:04George Kamel:Yeah, and on negative equity loans. Well, it's more like an unsecured loan.

37:09Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. And what do you make a year?

37:13George Kamel:$60 ,000.

37:14Dave Ramsey:Okay. And you don't have any money, literally?

37:17George Kamel:Well, I mean, I have like$2 ,000.

37:20Dave Ramsey:Okay, that's what I was asking. I was hoping you had something. Okay, good.

37:24George Kamel:Yeah.

37:25Dave Ramsey:And apparently the language you're using, you're single?

37:30George Kamel:Actually, I am married, but my husband, his finances are not with mine. Okay.

37:39Dave Ramsey:And thus we have part of the problem. Yeah. So does he have any money?

37:45George Kamel:He has lots of money. Okay. He has all kinds of money. He makes$15 ,000 a month. Okay.

37:51Dave Ramsey:Then we don't have a money problem. We have a marriage problem.

37:55George Kamel:Correct.

37:56Dave Ramsey:Okay. So that's how we're going to solve the car problem. We're going to solve the core problem that caused the car problem. The car problem is a symptom. It's not the problem. The credit card debts and the other loans are a symptom. You're trying to act like you have a rich roommate instead of a husband. He's trying to act like he has a poor roommate instead of a wife. Right. While you go out here trying to exist and run around doing things that are killing you, he makes plenty of money to have bought a car. This is ridiculous.

38:28George Kamel:Is his name on any of the debts? no because he he had had an affair and he left for a year so that's why i'm in so much debt because he left and he didn't pay for anything while he was gone so i had to get a car and i didn't have any credit at the time to speak of so i just got and that's why my interest rate was so high and so i just was it's kind of like desperate measures and so when he came back you had another

38:55Dave Ramsey:car at the time you just upgraded during the time he was gone yeah because my other car was breaking

39:01George Kamel:down and so was your heart yeah um yeah yeah so he came back you let him come back tell me about

39:12Dave Ramsey:so how's the overall relationship thing are y 'all seeing a therapist or how you working through

39:18George Kamel:it's very it's a very shallow relationship if i try to talk to him about money he says it's my problem. And I tried to ask him about the car and he's like, you got yourself into it. You have to get yourself out of it. So there's really no forward progress on any of that.

39:37Dave Ramsey:You guys need to be seeing a therapist and you guys need to be moving towards healing or towards ending this. And then you figure out what you're going to do from this point forward. Because this, this is, all of this is the backdrop for some really sad, bad decisions on your part. Because you were desperate, you were scared, you were heartbroken, you weren't thinking clearly, and a car dealer ate your lunch. Right. And so that's the back. But the backdrop is that you're actually better than the person who went in there and let that happen. But you were at a weakest moment. Yeah. So we've got to get rid of the weakest moments, and that's him.

40:19Dave Ramsey:So either this marriage starts healing or he's going away.

40:23George Kamel:Yes. Yeah, that's where we're at.

40:27Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

40:27George Kamel:But, yeah, and I just don't know, because my card payment is so high, and I just don't, I want so badly to get out of debt, and I just cannot.

40:34Dave Ramsey:I don't want to get out of debt bad enough to do a deal with the devil. So he's either coming to the table, we're going to combine our finances, and we're going to dream about living a life together, and that includes him cleaning up the mess that he's partly caused.

40:48George Kamel:And he'll have to clean up eventually. I mean, whether it's through a divorce or otherwise, this is going to become his problem. How long have you all been married? Twelve years.

40:57Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Well, I think he's going to discover the Texas law is going to give you some of his$15 ,000 a month. It's called alimony.

41:06George Kamel:Yes.

41:08Dave Ramsey:So he's getting ready to learn some things about how things work if this doesn't get fixed. so there's a lot of reason here to fix it for some reason he came back so he there's some part of him that wants this to go to get better but part of it getting better is a holistic healing of your overall relationship and then that fixes your car problem um if that doesn't happen then um you know then then you've got a car problem that we don't know what to do with i will talk about the other parts of it, but I don't want you to, I don't want you to 2 % of this call is your car. 98 % is your marriage. Okay.

41:47George Kamel:Okay.

41:48Dave Ramsey:And that, that makes your life good 10 years from today, not your car for being fixed problem. Okay. So that, that, I want you to love, I want you to hear me loving you that way. Okay. So the, um, if you're upside down, you've got three choices. One is pay it down. Two is borrow the difference and sell it from your credit union or from a credit card. And I would rather you have$13 ,000 in debt than$57 ,000 in debt. Right. And get a hoopty to drive for a while. And yeah, if it breaks down, fix it. Shut up. Okay. Yeah. That's probably what's going to happen. The second thing that can happen is you just earn enough by working like a crazy person to pay it down and get it under control so you can get it sold.

42:32Dave Ramsey:And the third thing is a voluntary repo. Don't do that for two reasons. One is that it trashes your credit. I'm not all about you building your credit, but it trashes it. And two is you lose control of what they sell it for, and they're going to sue you for the difference. So they're going to sell that car for$30 ,000 and come after you for$30 ,000 worth of deficit with repo fees and everything on there. Instead, you could be$13 ,000 in the haul. So a voluntary repo is a really bad plan. I wouldn't voluntary repo ever. I would just make them take it if they're going to take it.

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44:43Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, George Camel is my co-host. Courtney is in New York. Hi, Courtney. How are you?

44:52George Kamel:Hi, good afternoon. I'm well. How are you doing?

44:55Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

44:57George Kamel:So my question today is regarding what is the best way to pay down on my debts? Really, they seem big. They seem huge. They seem like it's nothing that I'm ever going to be able to pay down in my life. The debts that I have and my husband combined, I have my own student loan debt. which is around$200 ,000. We have a house together, which is also around$200 ,000 left that we owe. And I also have a car payment that sits at$22 ,000. And like I said, it just seems...

45:33Dave Ramsey:And who's the doctor or the lawyer?

45:36George Kamel:I'm actually an athletic trainer, and my husband is a mechanic.

45:40Dave Ramsey:You're an athletic trainer, a personal trainer.

45:45George Kamel:No, not quite. A little bit different, but more like a physical therapist that works with...

45:51Dave Ramsey:Sports teams.

45:52George Kamel:Sports teams, yep. Okay. Emergency care, emergency response.

45:56Dave Ramsey:And you paid$200 ,000 for that degree?

46:00George Kamel:Yes, I did. It's crazy. And what do you earn? I earn$76 ,000 a year before investments and taxes.

46:13Dave Ramsey:Before investments come out.

46:15George Kamel:Yes.

46:16Dave Ramsey:Okay. And your husband makes what as a mechanic?

46:20George Kamel:As a mechanic. Yep. He makes around$66 ,000 a year. Okay.

46:25Dave Ramsey:All right. And so we're dealing with$140 ,000 worth of income.

46:34Dave Ramsey:And$200 ,000 house,$22 ,000 car.

46:37George Kamel:You said he has debt, too? He doesn't. The only debt he has really is the house that we have together. Okay. He has no other consumer debt.

46:44Dave Ramsey:So your only debt is a car, student loans, and your mortgage?

46:47George Kamel:Yes, sir.

46:48Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. And what part of New York are you in? I've just got New York on my screen.

46:53George Kamel:Yeah, I'm actually north of Syracuse.

46:56Dave Ramsey:Okay. Okay. Cool. All right. Thank God you didn't tell me Manhattan. Okay. Nope. So good. So you've got a good income. Right. And so do you have opportunity to do some side hustles using your degree, your field, like personal training and other things?

47:19George Kamel:Absolutely.

47:20Dave Ramsey:Okay. How much can you add to your income if you turn that up?

47:25George Kamel:If I were to, I mean, at one point right out of college, I was doing an extra 20 hours a week and I could bring in an extra$1 ,500, if not a little bit more.

47:35Dave Ramsey:Yeah, okay. So you could bring in$1 ,500 a week.

47:39George Kamel:Yes.

47:40Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Okay. All right. Which is$6 ,000 a month, which is almost what you make now.

47:46George Kamel:Right. So doubling my income.

47:48Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And your husband obviously can do some side stuff.

47:51George Kamel:Absolutely.

47:52Dave Ramsey:How many kids do you have? We don't.

47:55George Kamel:We have a dog.

47:56Dave Ramsey:Okay. Great.

47:57George Kamel:Okay.

47:58Dave Ramsey:Bad news for the dog. Nobody's going to be home for a while. leave some food and toys out so the the bad news is you've got this hole the bad the good news is you're trying to shovel it with a shovel half the size that you've owned you have another shovel the same size in the closet and so you're gonna both of you have the ability to double your household income for a short period of time and use that to clean the mess up i mean if we start throwing$100 ,000 a year at debt, I think your debt's going to go away, don't you?

48:35George Kamel:Yes.

48:36Dave Ramsey:And that just means that for the next two years, you're going to work all the time, and you'll be debt-free.

48:44George Kamel:Right. It doesn't seem that simple, but I guess it is. It is.

48:50Dave Ramsey:There's another part to it, and that part is living on a written budget, a detailed plan that helps you execute tactically the concept of living on nothing, making a big extra pile of money, and throwing everything in the house after we buy some food, some basic food. We're not eating out. We ain't got time to eat out. We're working all the time. And we're not going on vacation. We ain't got time to go on vacation. We're working all the time until we get this mess cleaned up. You've been out of college, what, five years? Yep. Yeah, good guess, Dave, like you've done this before. And so I don't want you to go another five years and still be sitting here because you didn't address this.

49:31George Kamel:Right.

49:32Dave Ramsey:I want you to get after it. Like in your world, your world, the good news about your world is you have been formally trained in systems and processes that create transformation. Right. And that's what I'm giving you. so you your brain already functions the way we teach and one of the things you know if you have an athlete come in or a dough boy come in with a dad bod off the street you you you know that the best thing you can do is to shock the system not to try to do this gradually over 10 years right and that's what i'm giving you shock the system and get it over with rip the band-aid off don't pull it off one hair at a time.

50:25Yeah.

50:26George Kamel:And that means all guns are pointed to the debt, which means no investing. We're going to pause all the investments.

50:31Dave Ramsey:Stop all investments. Stop all anything. A hundred percent focus like your freaking life depends on it on this debt. And that's the formula that we have seen transform people's lives when they buy into that. And the weird thing is the more progress you start making, the more excited you get, the more hopeful you are. much like if you were coaching someone and they started dropping weight and they started seeing their bench press go up they started seeing their endurance on the treadmill go up they started seeing the results of their hard work then they lean in even harder you know the kind i'm talking about same thing same thing's going to happen to you but it comes from a singular focus you can't sort of kinda do it you tried that for five years right and i think that's where like my we my My husband and I have been really talking about it recently, and his thought on it, I'm with you on the approach of ripping a bandaid off, taking care of it, and getting rid of it.

51:29George Kamel:I think the way his thought process is that we'll be in debt forever, and we're doing okay.

51:35Dave Ramsey:Yeah, he's wrong on both counts. You're not doing okay, and you're not going to be in debt forever. I'm not going to let you. It's silly. Don't live like that. Life's too short. That's a hopeless, that's a fatalistic, hopeless thing. I'll always be fat, so I'm going to keep eating donuts. Right. It's the same thing. Of course you're always going to be fat because you keep eating donuts. Jeez, come on. You know, this is me talking to me now. A little self-counseling here. But, yeah, that's it. I said that's great quickly. That's how it works, though. The parallels in your world to our world, because personal finance is 80 % behavior.

52:14Dave Ramsey:It's 20 % head knowledge. So hope, which is the opposite of your husband's statements, he probably has more hope than his negative statements, but hope is one of the equations in transformation because we have to change behaviors. We don't change behaviors unless we think that they're going to result in a positive result. That's intelligence. So you would never go do the hard work if you didn't think it was going to work. The difference is I'm 100 % sure what I'm telling you to do will work if you guys will go do it guns a-blazing.

52:47George Kamel:The simple part is the math. I mean, you throw$6 ,000 a month of the debt, it's gone in 37 months. That's the math of it. The hard part is gone to work. Throw$10 ,000 at it, it's gone in 24 months. Exactly. So that would be the game plan. Let's get out of debt in two years instead of, well, I guess we'll just always have a payment in our life. That's no way to live.

53:03Dave Ramsey:Come on. Let's set Eeyore out in the backyard and let him graze. If Eeyore is your spirit animal, people. you got trouble.

53:27Dave Ramsey:If you want to win with money, you got to make good choices. And that includes where you shop for groceries, which is why I'm excited about Aldi. You'll find everything you need at Aldi From the same high-quality meat and seafood you find behind the butcher counter to fresh, organic fruits and vegetables delivered to stores daily, Aldi proves low prices don't mean low quality. No gimmicks, no membership fees, just real savings. Listen, a family of four can save nearly$4 ,000 a year shopping at Aldi. That's real money back in your pocket. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi. for the lowest prices of any national grocery chain.

54:12Dave Ramsey:Find a store near you today at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S.

54:19George Kamel:Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

54:43Dave Ramsey:Dave is in Long Island. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the show. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

54:52George Kamel:All right. So right now, I'm considering taking money out of my 401k to pay off my total debt. Right now I have a total of$35 ,020 in total debt, and it's really the credit card that I have that's killing me. It's a 27.8 % APR on it, which is ridiculous.

55:17Dave Ramsey:What is the 35? Give me the breakdown on the 35 ,000 debt. Okay.

55:22George Kamel:I have$13 ,323 owed to the federal government from taxes. I have$13 ,250 owed to Chase. That's the credit card. I have$4 ,909 owed to my car, and then I have an additional$1 ,138 owed to another TD credit card.

55:47Dave Ramsey:Okay, and what do you make, sir?

55:50George Kamel:I make, my household income is$205 ,000. Wow.

55:56Dave Ramsey:That's a great income. Why do you owe taxes?

56:00George Kamel:So when my wife and I were, my wife and I have been married for nine years, went through a really rough patch, so probably like two to three years. At some point we were separated and we were just not on the same page. We used to be really, really intense about our budget meetings and would meet every day. We actually paid, we actually were a graduate from FPU.

56:22Dave Ramsey:Honey, why do you owe taxes?

56:25George Kamel:Oh, because I changed my tax to being single on my taxes. And then when I tried to change it back, you don't have a formal HR department. So I was making changes, but there was a glitch in the system that kept reverting back to a single state.

56:46Dave Ramsey:So it was not being enough withheld. How long have you owed the IRS?

56:53George Kamel:Like a year and a half.

56:55Dave Ramsey:That interest rate makes a credit card look cheap.

56:59George Kamel:Yeah.

57:00Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. The great news is you make$205 ,000.

57:09George Kamel:So you can clean this up real quickly on your own, but you're telling us you want to go borrow more money to pay off the other debt at the tune of 30-40 % interest, which is effectively what you're doing from robbing the 401k early. Oh, I don't think I'm... They were saying that the interest rate was only like 5%. Oh, you're talking about borrowing on your 401k, not cash. Yeah, borrowing.

57:33Dave Ramsey:Okay, borrowing on it. So you're going to try to borrow your way out of debt, and you make$205 ,000. Dude, why don't you just get on a budget and cut it and pay off$35 ,000 in like eight months? i make two hundred thousand dollars so the thing is i'm like talking to my wife and she still wants

57:52George Kamel:to keep like putting money aside for our daughter and then her life insurance is also pretty very high she has um a uh pre-existing condition that we didn't find out until we were until she was giving birth so her life insurance is like around two hundred dollars a month and then you know the rent we pay is like is our three thousand and fifty a month okay you're not doing math well

58:13Dave Ramsey:you make two hundred and five thousand and you said she pays two hundred dollars for life insurance as if that was a problem that's two thousand four hundred that's one percent of your income that is not the problem honey the problem is you guys are not on a plan you're not working together and you're spending like you're in freaking Congress. You've got to stop all investments temporarily, and that includes saving for the kids temporarily. And I want you to clean this up in under a year. You make$205 ,000.

58:52That's true.

58:53George Kamel:Yeah, you're absolutely right.

58:55Dave Ramsey:Let me help you. $205 ,000 minus$35 ,000 is$170 ,000.

59:04Dave Ramsey:yeah you still got a hundred and seventy thousand minus taxes to live on cry me a river

59:14Dave Ramsey:seriously clean this mess up quit trying to find a hack the hack is in your mirror dude you fix the guy in your mirror and that woman standing beside him and the two of us are working together because we want to get out of debt so we can build an emergency fund so we can build our retirement so we can save for our kids and we can become wealthy and change our family tree. Now we got something to live for. It's time to get dialed in and focused. Y 'all just been disorganized and lazy and distracted by the rough patch that you went through. Now it's time to get on the game, man. And the good news is, is that you called the right people that loved you enough to tell you the truth.

59:51George Kamel:And the math on this is real simple when you make this kind of money. I mean, if you guys are bringing home$11 ,000 or$12 ,000, could you throw$4 ,300 a month of the debt? Because that's eight months. All the debt's gone. You can still live on, you know, seven, eight grand. $3 ,000 a month is 12 months, and you're done, man. So I think you can do this even sooner. But you and your wife got to get on the same page, get on a written budget, and go, all right, spit shake. We're going to make this work. We're only going to cover the necessary expenses. Every other dollar is going to go towards this debt, and I would start with that IRS debt.

1:00:20Dave Ramsey:For a short period of time. Start with the IRS and then list the rest of the debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one. And let me help you with this. The interest rate on$13 ,000 worth of credit cards when you pay it off in eight or nine months is irrelevant. The amount of math on that, the actual dollars that math creates is irrelevant. It's not the problem. If you're going to keep the credit card for 15 years, a 27 % interest rate is a problem. But we're going to keep it for 15 minutes. You need to cut them all up. A TV credit card?

1:00:54Dave Ramsey:Come on. Or is that, I don't know, TD? Maybe TD Bank? Maybe that was it. I couldn't hear it. Oh, I thought he bought something off the television.

1:01:02George Kamel:Oh, gosh. I hope not.

1:01:04Dave Ramsey:Yeah, like shopping channel.

1:01:06George Kamel:People still doing that?

1:01:07Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's what I thought. But yeah. Maybe I misunderstand. I can't. But anyway, the great news is you have a small amount of debt in ratio to your income, and You can clean this up really quickly once you guys decide that that's what you want to do. If you want to work a different plan, you called the wrong place because we're going to get you out of debt so that you can build wealth, so that you can change your family tree and be outrageously generous. You live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. Stephen's in Wisconsin. Hey, Stephen, what's up?

1:01:42George Kamel:Hey, Dave. I've got to hear from you. How are you doing today, sir?

1:01:45Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. Or how can we help?

1:01:47George Kamel:You made my day, sir. You made my day. So I'm not sure if I'm being too intense or if I'm just being intentional. I'm trying to pay off my mortgage, but I have a burgeoning tax problem. 53 years old, I'm 41 months away from paying from us, my wife and I, my partner and I, paying off our mortgage. But when we do, that$800 ,000 TSP that I have right now is going to keep growing. And I don't want to eat a huge tax bill when it comes to retirement. and I don't want to pass this burden on to my kids. I think I know the answer, and I know people call to get a swift kick in their pants. Don't worry, Dave, I've got thick britches.

1:02:25George Kamel:If I need this quick... You're done great.

1:02:27Dave Ramsey:How much is in your TSP?

1:02:30George Kamel:$800 ,000.

1:02:31Dave Ramsey:Oh, you said that. I'm sorry. My God, son. You're a millionaire. Way to go.

1:02:35George Kamel:We also have 1.33 total in retirement, so$800 ,000 is TSP. The rest is all lost.

1:02:43Dave Ramsey:Okay. So$800 is TSP,$500 is in other retirement?

1:02:48George Kamel:Correct, sir. Yes, sir.

1:02:49Dave Ramsey:Man, way to go, dude. How old are you?

1:02:52George Kamel:53, sir.

1:02:53Dave Ramsey:Oh, again, you said that. I'm sorry. My God. This is great. Well done. Very well done. A 53-year-old multimillionaire. What's the house worth?

1:03:02George Kamel:So the house is worth, we owe$349 ,410.97.

1:03:09Dave Ramsey:And you and your wife are in agreement on the level of intensity to pay that off in 41 months. Is that what you're saying?

1:03:16George Kamel:Correct, we are. She's my partner.

1:03:18Dave Ramsey:What is making you think you're too intense?

1:03:24George Kamel:I see that$800 ,000. I don't think we're ever going to touch that if we don't have to. We're going to live well. I mean, we make$310 ,000 a year. A bunch of that is my military pension. What makes you think you're paying off your house too intensely? just because i'm giving up one to the other and i don't want to step over dollars to pick up nickels and i feel like you've stopped adding to the 800 i have yes sir okay no i would not do

1:03:54Dave Ramsey:that i would continue to put 15 of my income away in retirement and baby step four while we're working on baby step six and if it takes 49 months to pay off the house instead of 41 whoopty doopty and still add to it.

1:04:31George Kamel:This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. These days it feels like there is so much trendy advice related to everything mental health and wellness, but how do you know what actually works for you? I'm just going to be honest with you. There is a ton of nonsense out there. Noise, noise, noise. And all the noise on the internet can lead to information overload. So it can be a struggle to know what's legitimate and what things you should actually do to improve your life. Here's the truth. Using trusted resources and talking to a live therapist can help you break through the noise, all this scrolling madness with personalized, real recommendations.

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1:06:15Dave Ramsey:Buying or selling a home is a big deal. There's a lot of drama out there right now. And you can cut through the drama. You know how you cut through drama and trauma? Dr. John Deloney says it all the time. When you're in the middle of drama and trauma, use facts. Facts are your friends. If you want facts on what's really going on in the real estate world, not what your broke brother-in-law's opinion was because he believes in socialism and he learned from his college professor, but instead you want to know what's really going on in the real estate world, just go to our website. We'll show you. RamseySolutions.com slash marketer.

1:06:47Dave Ramsey:You can click the link in the show notes. And the actual interest rates that are being charged are out there. The actual volume of homes that are listed is out there. And the actual median price and the changes in median price of house prices are there. The actual facts are that today we've got 1 ,102 ,787 houses on the market in America. That's the actual number of listings today. To put that in perspective, which is the only way that number has any value, it's the largest inventory of homes for sale since 2019 prior to COVID-19. Hmm, more houses for sale. Oh, wait. More people are looking at houses at any time since 2019.

1:07:34Dave Ramsey:There are more buyers than there are inventory. Anytime there's more buyers for something than there is something for sale, it causes prices to go up, not down. And we've seen prices hold steady and slightly increase in the last 12 months. So we're not seeing a housing bubble. We're not seeing a correction that some of you predicted. and I told you four years ago, three years ago, two years ago, and one year ago, there wasn't going to be one. It's the slowest crash of all time. And I can do it.

1:08:03George Kamel:It's been six years.

1:08:06Dave Ramsey:When is it coming?

1:08:07George Kamel:There's a crash already if you're going to do it.

1:08:09Dave Ramsey:It's a slow-mo crash. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. If you keep predicting the other world long enough, eventually you'll be right, but that's not good economics. Okay. So I change my prediction every year. Yeah. No matter what. Economists and weather forecasters, the only people that can be wrong all the time and still keep their jobs. So, yeah, there we go. So if you want to learn more about the facts, RamseySolutions.com or click the link in the show notes. We've got the U.S. Housing Market Trends facts, the data for you to look at, and that will help you make better decisions. Kate's in Delaware.

1:08:40Dave Ramsey:Hey, Kate, how are you?

1:08:43George Kamel:Good afternoon, gentlemen. How are you both?

1:08:45Dave Ramsey:Better than we deserve. How can we help?

1:08:50George Kamel:I will give you a bit of background. My husband and I have been married for 53 years. He's 79. I'm 74. He has just within the last five months been designated as 100 % disabled veteran from his time served in Vietnam. Wow. Yeah. So he is receiving now a, our monthly income normally is$56.86 combined, our retirement income. He is now going to be receiving, well, is receiving now$5 ,300.

1:09:34Dave Ramsey:More. That's a month. So now you've got$10 ,000 a month to work with. Correct. $11 ,000. There we go. Yeah, wow.

1:09:43George Kamel:Pretty much, yes. Wow.

1:09:45Dave Ramsey:How's he doing?

1:09:46George Kamel:What a blessing. Well, he has Parkinson's, he has coronary artery disease, and he has severe dementia.

1:09:54Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry, honey.

1:09:55George Kamel:I have been designated his medicary, and I am designated as his primary care provider. And it's all good. Yeah. It's just a different season in our life, and we are trying desperately to handle it with dignity and grace and most of all, humor.

1:10:19Dave Ramsey:Oh, I hear you. And so how can we best help you? What I want to know, Dave, is how do I best put into savings this VA money that's coming into us?

1:10:37George Kamel:Because it will have to be used for his long-term care eventually. But I need it to be in something that is giving me more than just my stupid savings account, which it's in now. so that I can have immediate access to.

1:10:56Dave Ramsey:Do you guys have debt?

1:11:00George Kamel:I have worked our debt down to a little less than$8 ,000, which is two credit cards.

1:11:07Dave Ramsey:Wonderful. Okay, first thing we're going to do is pay those off. The second thing we're going to do is build an emergency fund. Do you have any savings?

1:11:17George Kamel:I have$23 ,000 in savings.

1:11:21Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right.

1:11:23George Kamel:So do I take, and that is what I've been putting in from his$5 ,000 he's getting.

1:11:30Dave Ramsey:Yeah, okay. I want you to take some of that money and pay off the$8 ,000 as soon as you can, okay? Not the$23 ,000, maybe the$23 ,000, I don't care. But in the next couple months, use these checks to pay off the$8 ,000 for me, okay? Now you don't have any credit cards and you cut them up, okay? Now you just build the savings up as high as you can build it.

1:11:54George Kamel:What kind of vehicle should I have it in?

1:11:57Dave Ramsey:Probably a high-yield savings account. And do you guys have a mortgage?

1:12:07George Kamel:We do. Our mortgage is about$230. Our house is worth$850.

1:12:17Dave Ramsey:Okay.

1:12:18George Kamel:So we do still have a mortgage. Our monthly mortgage is$19.40.

1:12:23Dave Ramsey:Is there any life insurance that has been added with this military package that he just received?

1:12:33George Kamel:Interesting you should ask. I just checked into that yesterday. They are offering him a whole life.

1:12:43Dave Ramsey:No. A past.

1:12:44George Kamel:At a pretty steep monthly.

1:12:48Dave Ramsey:No, I think we'll pass.

1:12:48George Kamel:And I've listened to you long enough to know that that's not where to go.

1:12:52Dave Ramsey:It's not the military that's offering that. It's a company that milks the military that's offering that. But what I was asking is they're not furnishing him any kind of federal program with a disability that includes life insurance that they pay for. That is correct. Okay. I was afraid of that. Okay. All right. So we've got two goals. Okay. Goal number one is we're piling up cash in a high-yield savings account to take care of him and his care. And I want you to keep that in home as long as you can by hiring people to help you in the house using some of this money. That's going to be your least expensive route and your highest quality of care route because you can be the advocate and manage the situation.

1:13:38Dave Ramsey:But don't be afraid to use some of the money to hire somebody to help you, okay? Okay.

1:13:43George Kamel:That's exactly what the money is for.

1:13:45Dave Ramsey:Good. Perfect. And then our second goal is you're going to outlive him. That's statistical. And so then how are we going to set you up later and get rid of this mortgage? And that's our second goal. Okay.

1:14:03George Kamel:And how do I do that?

1:14:05Dave Ramsey:There's not any magic wands on this, but I just want to be thinking towards those things because the best thing I can do is get rid of that mortgage long-term. Short-term, I'm more concerned about you taking care of him and you and using your$11 ,000 a month because you guys don't spend anywhere near$11 ,000 to live on.

1:14:25George Kamel:Our monthly expenses, excluding groceries and gas, is$4 ,800.

1:14:33Dave Ramsey:Okay. Well, with groceries and gas, you can make it on your first number and your second number has been going in the bank. That's what you're telling me. Yep. Yeah. Okay.

1:14:42George Kamel:Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:14:43Dave Ramsey:Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to set you up with a Ramsey coach that's been trained by us as our gift. No, no cost. Okay. So that somebody can walk with you because you need somebody in your corner. You have been an amazing 53 year wife and he served his country and they waited till he was 79 to bless him with a disability that was deserved probably 20 years ago. And so we're going to take care of y 'all, okay, as best we can. Again, Kate, we don't have any magic wands, but we're going to set you up with a Ramsey coach to do what I can't do in this setting, which is continue to stay with you and make sure that you're cared for and you got all the answers and do the very best we can with this extra money now.

1:15:32Dave Ramsey:Wow. Thank you. Thank you for being who you are, Miss Kate.

1:16:13Dave Ramsey:Today's Ramsey Show question is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you've been turned down for refinancing your defaulted private student loans, you're not alone and you're not out of luck. Y-Refi exists to give people like you another shot. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states.

1:16:35George Kamel:Today's question comes from Adam in New Jersey. Dave frequently mentions that teaching is one of the top occupations of those who achieve millionaire status. I have three children in high school, and I want to present teaching as an option for them. My question is, how do they become millionaires on a teacher's salary? Great question. So he's referring to our millionaire study we did of over 10 ,000 millionaires, And we ranked the careers. And the first one was engineer, followed by accountant, followed by teacher. So it was the third career in there.

1:17:07Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Followed by business executive, followed by lawyer. MDs didn't make the top five. They were number six, just as a thing. So the answer is interesting, Adam. you're falling for the classic belief that income creates wealth. More, that the only way you become wealthy is have a huge income. And as we studied, George told you, over 10 ,000 millionaires, one-third of them, 33%, never made over$100 ,000. So the secret to becoming a millionaire is apparently not just having a larger income. Now, it doesn't hurt to have a larger income. It's not a bad thing, but it's not the only way to get there because one-third of America's millionaires did not become millionaires because of a high income.

1:18:06Dave Ramsey:And that apparently is the teacher answer, right? So what does work? What does work is time and consistency. $100 a month,$100 invested from age 25 to age 65 at the S &P 500, which is the average of the stock market, rates is$1 ,176 ,000.

1:18:40Dave Ramsey:$100 per month from age 25 to age 65. So the secret there is they didn't miss a stinking month for 40 freaking years. And$100 makes you a millionaire. So the answer is not the amount. The answer is the consistency, the steadiness, the predictability, the discipline, the stick with it. And time and consistency, not dollar amount, are the primary indicator. So if you want to be a teacher and you want to start saving at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. You want to be whatever and making under$100 ,000 a year and you want to be a millionaire starting at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there.

1:19:31Dave Ramsey:But these teachers did not start then. Most of these teachers started teaching straight out of college, and they immediately signed up for their retirement programs and started putting money in every month, and it was more than$100, even back then. And they're teaching freaking seventh grade social studies, and they put money in every single month, and they have a 30-year career, and it's more than$100, and they've got more than a million dollars in there. Oh, and by the way, they got married, and their husband or wife was doing the same thing. So it's not about, you know, we always hear these people like, you're crazy.

1:20:07Dave Ramsey:That's impossible. Teachers can't. You can't make it out of teachers. I listen. You can get mad about it, but it's data. We didn't make these freaking numbers up. It's not a philosophical argument, you idiot. It's a math thing. You argue with math, you end up looking stupid. And so these people wailing and gnashing of teeth on TikTok that somehow we need to tax the billionaires. What you need to do is get off your own little butt and get out of your mother's basement. That's what you need to do. And then you can go be somebody, honey. That's the difference. And so this is how teachers do it. Steady time and consistency.

1:20:48Dave Ramsey:And it's magical. You know, the first time I saw that, I was like 21. I was 20, 21 years old. When you saw a compound growth? When I saw that you could have$1 ,176 ,000 at$100 a month from age 25. And I was 21. Wow. And I thought, I got four years on this. I can do this. I can do this. You know what I did? I didn't do it. It sounded cool. Instead, I went and tried to get rich in real estate and flipping houses before there's cable TV to tell you how. And I went broke trying to get rich quick because I was too stupid to do time and consistency. But the thing that we did discover, Adam, and I think I always – because I was a little bit shocked too.

1:21:25Dave Ramsey:When we got the data in, we had several aha moments from the data on this research that we did not see coming. and one of them was teacher is in the top three. Didn't see that coming. I would not have predicted that. So you got engineer, accountant, teacher, business executive, lawyer. We could not figure out what was driving. And MD is not there. They're number six, medical doctor is number six. Now medical doctors get there generally because they out-earn their stupidity. They're not generally good with money, stereotypically, okay? There's plenty of them that are good with money, but a lot of docs are just straight-up stupid with money.

1:22:06Dave Ramsey:It's not unusual at all. But the other five categories, what we did finally figure out as we sat and brainstormed through, what in the world is happening here? What do they all share in common? They're all process people. There's one way to build a bridge, if you're an engineer, that it doesn't fall down. There's a set of mathematical calculations that span that beam that keep the building from falling in. If you put that size beam up, it doesn't fall. You put that size beam up, it does fall. Engineering is not art. It is science. You have to follow the process or people die. You have to follow the process or the building falls down, the bridge falls down.

1:22:47Dave Ramsey:Okay? Accounting. There's not an artistic element to accounting. There's generally accepted accounting principles. You either follow them or you're wrong. It's called gap. Okay? In the accounting world. GAP, Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. You either do accounting properly or you get the wrong answer. It's a math thing. It's a process. So find the rules and follow the rules if you're an engineer. Find the rules and follow the rules, process-driven people, if you are an accountant. If you're a teacher, you have a lesson plan. There's a process. You lay out exactly how we're going to handle this classroom.

1:23:23Dave Ramsey:We don't make it up as we go. Mrs. Doubtfire is not your teacher, okay? That's not how this works. Teachers are process people. Now, some of you think they're otherwise, and they're loving, and they're kind, and they are. The good ones are those things. But they're also driving toward an end result of you actually getting an A on the exam because you freaking learned something while you sat in their classroom. That's what teachers do. They drive a process. They're project-driven, and the kid is the project. Okay? Guess what? If you're a business executive, same thing. Business acumen demands certain principles be followed.

1:23:58Dave Ramsey:If you're a lawyer, try going before the judge and making up things in the law. The judge will throw you out, maybe put you in jail for contempt. They will sit you down, counselor, right? There's one way to be in front of a judge. There's one way to do litigation. Follow the law. Follow the system. It's a process. And so you submit yourselves in all five of these career paths. You submit yourself to a proven set of truths. The law of gravity is this. If you jump off a building, you hit the sidewalk. And guess what? Personal finance is the same thing. You're either going to live on less than you make or you're going to be broke.

1:24:40Dave Ramsey:You're either going to live on a plan called a budget or you're going to be broke. You're either going to invest money or you're going to be broke. There's really no options here. And the more you stay out of debt mathematically, the more money you've got to invest. The steadier you invest, the more money you're going to have over the longer period of time. Period. It's a process. The stuff we teach is very, the baby steps. We don't let you violate the baby steps. Why? It's just like accounting. You don't violate it. It's a process. Follow it. It works. It's called common sense in our world. We call it a lot of different things.

1:25:13Dave Ramsey:We laugh about it around here. But that's the reason these teachers do so well is they're process people.

1:25:19George Kamel:And they're not trying to flex either. They're not trying to impress anyone. They're trying to survive running a chaotic classroom. So it's that simple. You make 50 grand, invest 15 % of that. That's$625 a month. You'll have$4 million from 25 to 65. And that's if you never get a raise.

1:25:33Dave Ramsey:And so if you're half wrong, they only got$2 million. And never got a raise because it's a mean old school board. And people don't love teachers. And it's horrible out there in society. We pay athletes more than we pay teachers. Oh, my God! But keep investing.

1:25:59Dave Ramsey:Many of you listen to The Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth. And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:26:58Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, number one best-selling author. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Nick is with us in California. Hi, Nick. How are you?

1:27:08George Kamel:Good. How are you?

1:27:09Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

1:27:12George Kamel:Oh, so I've been listening to a lot of your stuff. I went to part of a course at a church for about 10 years ago. I finally started out toward the goal of working the baby steps here. And hurdle number one arose, which was my wife didn't really want to participate in that. And so I've been doing it somewhat alone. and I've worked Baby Step 1 and 2 and started into Baby Step 3. And each time I get my emergency fund built up, crisis ensues, and a lot of the crisis really isn't crisis at all by definition. It's self-inflicted because one of us isn't on board.

1:28:02Dave Ramsey:Okay. That makes sense.

1:28:04George Kamel:So we have 11 kids. four are grown and out of the house nine dogs, seven cats and a tortoise most of those were kind of brought in against my will by my wife and my kids but here we are

1:28:21Dave Ramsey:how many dogs? nine dogs with eleven kids and a tortoise and seven cats? and seven cats, yeah

1:28:30George Kamel:what circle of hell have you created? how do they even coexist? That's right.

1:28:39Dave Ramsey:What is your house smelling? The only one that's got a chance is the tortoise.

1:28:43George Kamel:Right. Because it sleeps for six months out of the year. I mean, that one has the easy life. Is this real?

1:28:51Dave Ramsey:Are you punking us?

1:28:53George Kamel:No, no, this is real. So your wife started a petting zoo just for the family. Everyone's got their own animal. That's good. Everybody's got two. Yeah, plus we have some alternates, absolutely. And you have 11 children, children, like humans? Uh, human beings. Yeah. Okay. Four are grown in and out of the house. So we're down to seven in the house now.

1:29:13Dave Ramsey:Seven, nine, seven, and one. I got you. Okay. Yep. Yep. So how can we help today?

1:29:21George Kamel:So recently two of my dogs were incarcerated for biting a neighbor dog and, um, yeah, I know. And, uh, you know, I, my knee jerk reaction was to surrender the dogs, uh, which is an awful outcome because they're, are probably going to be euthanized. And it's not because I don't love them. It's because in the end of the day, I knew this was going to be an expensive endeavor. We are now to where we know what that endeavor looks like, and it's about$4 ,500.

1:29:55Dave Ramsey:So the dogs are in a pound because they bit the neighbor dog, and they want$4 ,500 to get them out? Is this bail?

1:30:04George Kamel:Kind of. So about$2 ,000 of it is fees, but they also want this very elaborate housing situation with concrete and attachments and roofs and all of this stuff. So that part of the endeavor would be about$2 ,500 of those dollars.

1:30:26Dave Ramsey:Or they will not release the dogs out on parole if you don't build them a proper home to suit the dictates of the county in California. Correct.

1:30:37George Kamel:So you're going to get them out of prison to create your own prison in your backyard for them to live in. Ironically. This doesn't sound like a good life either way. No. And is there a chance they'll buy it again?

1:30:50Dave Ramsey:Oh, yeah.

1:30:51George Kamel:Wouldn't you?

1:30:53Dave Ramsey:if you were in that situation?

1:30:56George Kamel:I mean, I want to go bite the neighbor's dog myself now at this point. Man, I would move if I was your neighbor. I don't know if I could live next to a petting zoo. That's a lot of barking. Yeah, and the problem is that at this point, they don't have to bite the neighbor's dog. All they have to do is get out, and they're gone. So you're wondering, do you have$4 ,500? Yes, I do. And you're wondering, should I spend this to solve this problem because I would hate to see them potentially get euthanized?

1:31:29Dave Ramsey:Yes. It's sad that the dogs are caught in the whirlwind hurricane that is your all's lives. And so, as you said, that you all have created. and so um the thing is i don't mind spending money on something if um especially my dogs i love dogs uh if i create a sustainable situation okay and if i'm not if i'm not kidding myself in other words so i mean there's a thousand percent chance that these dogs are going to have a problem again, no matter what you do, and that they're going to be taken away. This is not a sustainable environment. Do you agree? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so you're throwing good money after bad at that point.

1:32:23Dave Ramsey:But what you do owe those dogs is to create a better environment. You and your wife have to be more responsible about how you're handling all these decisions. and um that's just it's not fair to the animals it's not fair to your kids it's not fair to the neighbors um i mean you've created an environment here that's not that's not manageable it's so the chaos with the numbers you gave us we can joke and say the tortoise is the only one's got a chance but it's the tortoise is the only one's got a chance and so um yeah this is not a um a healthy situation and i think the local authorities are telling you that in so many words uh with their with their mandate to you it sounds very bureaucratic and it sounds like they've overstepped uh bounds but it is california so it wouldn't be shocking or anything for them to be out of control with regulations shock but um you know So there are, I got to tell you, there's people in rural settings all across America right now listening to this, shaking their head, going, puppy ain't going to make it.

1:33:35Dave Ramsey:That's what they're saying. Because no matter what you do with puppy here, puppy's in a problem. And puppy's going to cause a problem. And so it's, you know, it's your all's job to maintain control over these situations and you haven't because you've created an untenable situation. Man, I'm sorry.

1:33:52George Kamel:Yeah, it's also a big liability. I mean, if that dog bit a human, well, there's a lawsuit on your hands that could crush you guys. It's heartbreaking.

1:34:00Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Man. Yeah. And, well, I mean, yeah, it's real. Yeah. So I don't know what to tell you, Nick. I think the sad thing is that this whole thing is so bizarre and so out of control that the dogs being in the pound is a minor thing compared to all the rest of the things you guys got to deal with. That's just, man, I'm sorry. Sorry for the dogs, but they were put in a situation they couldn't win.

1:34:30George Kamel:Yeah.

1:34:31Dave Ramsey:And they were put there by you guys because you allowed it and your wife encouraged it. And you guys ought to fix that. You really should. It's not fair to the humans involved. It's not fair to the animals that are involved. And so, yeah, what to do with particular puppies, I don't know. Maybe get some clarity on what the next steps would be. Maybe you can find someone to adopt them and take them out to an area where they can thrive.

1:34:57George Kamel:If they're rehomed on a farm somewhere where they're not going to hurt anybody.

1:35:00Dave Ramsey:Exactly. And where they're not put in a situation where they feel like they have to hurt somebody. That changes everything.

1:35:06George Kamel:Man.

1:35:07Dave Ramsey:So, wow.

1:35:07George Kamel:Those dogs gotta be on edge.

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1:36:37Dave Ramsey:Kelly is with us in Canada. Hi, Kelly. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, George.

1:36:43George Kamel:Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, I want to know the best way. I've had my head buried in the sand for a number of years. I want to know the best way to raise devised trust with my wife after a gambling addiction and recombine our finances after a number of years.

1:37:03Dave Ramsey:How long have you been clean?

1:37:05George Kamel:About six and a half years.

1:37:34done that is there some other thing you're doing that's giving her causing her to be insecure so

1:37:41George Kamel:um i think for the most part it's just me just not knowing how to approach this i just kind of started listening to your podcast uh got your youtube channel all that stuff and binge watching it and i just like i've become scared and i i just i i think she i think it's more about how to initiate this and what's the best way? Like, do we just start combining our fines now, just go into it head on, or do we just do that slowly?

1:38:14Dave Ramsey:So let me ask you this. I think I'm hearing you say, maybe I'm not, maybe I'm, if I'm reading between the lines incorrectly, tell me, because I'm not positive, okay? Okay. It sounds like that you may still be dealing with shame from six and a half years ago. there's a little bit of that yes okay that's fair a little bit would be fair um i deal with a little bit of shame from having lost everything and filed bankruptcy in 1988 um okay so that's you know that's real it's back there but the further in the rearview mirror it is the smaller it is agreed agreed and that's you know so i don't um have the same hesitation 30 years later that i did three days after filing bankruptcy discussing something and expecting my wife to trust me and just trust my judgment i'm an idiot but trust my judgment right you know and that that's where we started and then now from there we've become we went through a phase where a lot of america was listening to me, but she wasn't.

1:39:24Dave Ramsey:And then we finally, she caught up, you know, but that happens to everybody. But, but yeah, that's, that, and that's, that's just fair is what I'm saying. When you make a mistake, I think I'm thinking of atomic habits that James Clear wrote, and he talks a lot in there about forming habits. And the way you change a habit is not a forced discipline, gritting your teeth and white knuckling it. It's changing your identity by saying, I am not a gambling addict. I'm a person who used to gamble six and a half years ago and doesn't anymore. I used to be irresponsible with money. I'm not a person that's irresponsible with money anymore.

1:40:03Dave Ramsey:I used to be a person that was overweight and ate outrageous amounts of volumes of food. And now I'm not a person that does that anymore. I'm a person, I'm a fit person now. Now I'm a person who eats reasonable amounts of food. Now I'm a person who's responsible with money. And you change your vernacular around it, which kind of is a shame dealing with mechanism. I thought that was really interesting. I filtered that through my own experience with the shame of filing bankruptcy. And so that helped me. So anyway, all that to say, a good way to approach a relational conversation of any kind, whether it's at work or your spouse or your kids, is if something's awkward or feels weird, just say, this is awkward.

1:40:46Dave Ramsey:And it feels weird. I still feel, honey, I still feel a little bit of shame from six and a half years ago. I may be more worried about me than you are at this point, but I'm also learning all this stuff about how important it is that we combine finances. And I don't even know how to ask you to trust in this situation, but I think we ought to talk about it because it's weird for me to say it out loud. And it makes my stomach hurt to have this conversation. And if you said that, she's probably going to go, I'm not worried about it. Let's do it. Or she's going to tell you the truth and tell you what's going on.

1:41:20George Kamel:And maybe say, hey, can you help me brainstorm some ideas of things we could do, some next steps we could take that would help us get back to a place where we do have unity with our finances?

1:41:30Dave Ramsey:Yeah. I would not recommend if it was six and a half days ago, not six and a half years ago, that she do combine finances with you. I'd recommend that she manage all the household finances and keep your hands off of money until you've proven that you've broken a gambling addiction.

1:41:45George Kamel:That's exactly what she did. We did start off with combined finances, and she had to manage them all.

1:41:53Dave Ramsey:Yeah, that's the way you handle an addiction if you're going to stay together. It's the only way that works. But now I really think six and a half years, from a practical standpoint, I'm not a counselor, but I'm fine with you combining finances wholesale. If you've really been dry and you're really responsible in other areas of your life, and the fruit of your life, your behaviors make a statement about where your character is, and then I think you should do it. Now, if you want a way to edge into it, a way to do it is keep everything exactly the way it is, but just start doing a budget together.

1:42:28Dave Ramsey:And every dollar has an assignment, and you can assign the separate accounts, and let's do that for 90 days, and then we're going to combine the accounts if that works.

1:42:39George Kamel:Okay.

1:42:39Dave Ramsey:And that's a way to ease into it. I don't know that you need to do that, though, unless she's resistant.

1:42:46George Kamel:No, it's more about me, I think. What has the latest conversation been like with her around this, or has there been nothing for six years? No, the latest conversation is, okay, like through all the turmoil, we actually separated for about a year. We got back together due to financial reasons. We couldn't really afford two separate positions. And then just recently I just said, hey, do we want to do this for the rest of our lives or do we actually want to separate? And we actually started talking about staying together for the rest of our lives. And the finances weren't part of that. So in terms of the finances, though, it's more about, okay, we just kind of handle our own things separately, but we're not doing, like, proper budgeting, in my opinion.

1:43:41Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you're losing some synergies, and you're losing some of the oomph forward that you could get were you to completely combine them. So I think it's worth talking about and probably worth doing, and I'm going to recommend you guys just walk head on into it. But I get that there's a tender place. There's scars. And, you know, again, it was a little different scenario, but we lost everything. The water got cut off. The electricity got cut off. There's babies in the house. She would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, that's where we were. And so, you know, so when we do anything with money that makes her, that triggers those old wounds, I can see the shape of her eyes change.

1:44:29Dave Ramsey:I start to see that terror look, that like two tours in Vietnam look come back over her kind of type of thing. And it ain't good. And so I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We just went somewhere we don't need to go. Let's push pause right here and let's talk this back through again. And let's just wait a minute. We don't have to do anything. And by the way, you understand that there's 83 times that amount of money over here in this other account. So calm down. It's like, okay, okay, okay. I can breathe again. Had a little panic attack there. Let's look at the facts for a second. But that's normal.

1:45:00Dave Ramsey:I mean, if he did anything that looked like a gambling action, it would activate all that pain in her.

1:45:08George Kamel:So any kind of scheme he comes up with, whether it's, I'm going to do this real estate thing over here.

1:45:13Dave Ramsey:If it sounds like he's playing blackjack, if it sounds like he's throwing the slots, if it sounds like he's playing craps in the way he's handling his vernacular, he's not doing that, by the way. Everything he said to us was real sober. He had sobriety language all over him. It was really good. But, yeah, that's what you're facing, guys, when you want to rebuild trust. By the way, great book on trust. You're trying to rebuild trust. A lot of relationships working on that for different reasons. Henry Cloud's book called Trust. How to Regain Trust, How to Build Trust, How to Reclaim Trust, all of those kinds of things.

1:45:49Dave Ramsey:And it's an excellent, excellent book on that.

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1:47:03Dave Ramsey:Well, it's here. I'm amazed at how I shouldn't be amazed it's it's always one of the prettiest products that we do one of the best looking products we do the 2026 Ramsey Gold Planner is here and uh this thing is it's we always kind of just turn the creatives loose and let them play in the sandbox and they do an incredible job building this thing out it sells out every year we only print 10 or 15 ,000 of them and they sell out really really quickly um it's an expensive item usually our stuff is you know twenty dollar books or so thirty dollar books or something this is like a fifty dollar item but we do the pre-sale on it starting right now the 2026 gold planner 35.97 for a limited time after labor day it's going to go up so if you want it now now this thing consists of each month starts with a devotional from either Rachel Cruz, Jade Walshaw, or John Deloney.

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1:48:09Dave Ramsey:That's right. And you're kind of wordy that way. Yeah. All right. So then each month has a two-page thing that's open to the month, and then after that, each week has two pages. And you go through the week, and then you start a new month with a new devotional, and it helps you track every single thing in your daily goals. It is extremely well designed. This is many, many years we've been doing this thing, and it continues to be a huge seller. So if you have an interest, we'd love to have you. Again, go ahead and grab your pre-sale before Labor Day because they're going to go way up. It is an expensive product for us to produce, as you can imagine.

1:48:44Dave Ramsey:It's a beast, and it's not only gorgeous, but there's a lot to it. So the Ramsey Gold Planner for 2026 on sale until Labor Day,$35.97. Devin, click the link in the description or go to RamseySolutions.com slash store. Devin is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Devin. How are you?

1:49:04George Kamel:I'm well. I'm well. Thank you. Good. How can I help? So I have a kind of unique question here. I work for a company and I've had a lot of success and, you know, making a good income. but I want your opinion on what I should do about a vehicle. So they are offering, or they offered me a vehicle that I essentially have to rent from them. It's$300 a month that they take of my paycheck. So I'm wondering, should I go along with that and essentially lease this vehicle into perpetuity, or should I buy a vehicle?

1:49:47Dave Ramsey:You need the vehicle to do the job?

1:49:51George Kamel:I do. So I have two cars. I'm in sales.

1:49:58Dave Ramsey:Okay. And so you have to have like a van to sell the stuff out of, or what are we saying?

1:50:06George Kamel:No, no, you know, it's just a fair amount of driving, and I have to go look at customers' sites. It's business-to-business sales.

1:50:14Dave Ramsey:Okay, but you don't have to have the car, the vehicle's not particularly

1:50:19George Kamel:equipped it's just transportation to get to the job no no right yeah it's just a vehicle you can drive anything you can drive anything on it you can drive anything it's a toyota yeah yeah yeah um will they give you the money regardless they're charging you 300 bucks they're charging him 300

1:50:37Dave Ramsey:bucks for the use of one of their vehicles this is a bad deal man they should be what all does it include?

1:50:46George Kamel:Unlimited fuel. So, you know, I can drive it on vacation. My wife is allowed to drive it. You know, we can use it for, for personal, like, you know, any kind of personal.

1:50:57Dave Ramsey:So they're covering all, they're covering all maintenance, tires, fuel, insurance, depreciation, everything.

1:51:04George Kamel:Yes. And there's no boundaries like a normal lease would have. Right. Yeah. There's no, you know, limited miles or anything. That's all in writing. I can't drive it.

1:51:15Dave Ramsey:Yes. Okay, that is a benefit because it costs you more than$300 a month to drive a car. Because they're covering insurance, too, as part of that$300? Insurance, repairs, tires, fuel, loss in value during putting miles on it. It's costing you a lot more than$300 to drive a vehicle.

1:51:35George Kamel:They're basically subsidizing it and charging you a portion.

1:51:38Dave Ramsey:Yeah. They're losing money on this transaction. No, listen to me. They're losing money on the transaction.

1:51:48George Kamel:Yeah. It is a small car, right? That's the only car that they offer. And, you know, if I did buy my own vehicle, I'd get a slightly larger one for my family. You know, I've got a wife and two kids and one that's due here at the end of the week.

1:52:06Dave Ramsey:But you have a car for your family, right?

1:52:11George Kamel:We do. We have a paid-off Ford Explorer. Yeah. It's older.

1:52:17Dave Ramsey:Put your family in that. Put the miles on it. Or save up some money and buy a car for your family because you only need one car because you're getting one car from work. You said you had two cars right now, right?

1:52:28George Kamel:I do. My other one is kind of more of a farm use. It's an old 2004 Toyota Tacoma.

1:52:34Dave Ramsey:Okay. I mean, you could sell it in the Explorer and use the money piled up to get a better car for the family, right? Farm use? Are you in farming? My only...

1:52:46George Kamel:Just as a hobby, I have a few cows and pigs, chickens.

1:52:50Dave Ramsey:Okay, you probably need a pickup. Yeah, okay.

1:52:54George Kamel:My only dilemma is that if I decline the car, if I turn the car back in, they will pay me 70 cents a mile up to 7 ,200 miles a year. So that's$5 ,000 a year.

1:53:12Dave Ramsey:Which is$400 a month. Plus that$300 that I would essentially get back in my paycheck. Oh, see, that's true. So there's a$700 swing. Okay, well, the way you do the calculation is this, all right? You figure out what car you would drive, and how many miles are you putting on it a year? Do you know? With work and personal altogether, I'd be putting probably close to$18 ,000,$18 ,000. Okay. All right. That's not too much, really. I mean, that's about average, actually. So, yeah, so for$700 a month, how much value can you lose in a car? Because whatever you buy is going down in value, right? So how much is it?

1:54:00Dave Ramsey:Right. You buy a$20 ,000 car, and, you know, in four years it's going to be worth. $10 ,000. So we got to say, all right, 2 ,500 bucks a year, 200 bucks a month and lost value. That's about what you're going to have. Something like that. Okay. And you pay cash for the car, whatever it is. And it's the minimum car that will get the job done because you're, you know, a little bit bigger maybe, but other than that, it's just reliable. And then can I buy insurance, repairs, tires, and gas for the remaining 500 bucks a month? I don't know if you can or not. I'm not sure you can. I'm not sure you're going to break even on this.

1:54:37Dave Ramsey:So, but if you, it doesn't, you know, you're right. There's a$700 swing. So how much, I know you can't drive an expensive car and I know you can't drive a car with debt. The numbers don't work. Right. Okay. So whatever you drive, you have to pay cash for, and it's probably 10 to$20 ,000 car for the numbers to work. and then you've got to run some numbers, do some calculations, and figure out what the repairs are, what the insurance is, and then divide it out and go$700 a month, what I've got to work with,$7 ,200 a year. Can I operate this vehicle for that? I don't know if you can. I mean, with$350,$4 gas.

1:55:17Dave Ramsey:I mean, I don't know if you can or not.

1:55:19George Kamel:I started doing research on cars with the lowest insurance costs, cars with the lowest maintenance, and start from there and see what they're actually going for. And the lowest depreciation. Because you're just going to destroy this car. So you don't want anything that's brand new that's going to go down in value. I'd get it used where someone else paid the depreciation, and you can maintain it at a reasonable cost if you're going to go that route.

1:55:39Dave Ramsey:Yeah. The$300 is not a horrible deal. I can promise you that. It's not a horrible deal. But if you want to buy something and go the other route, take the mileage and save the$300. That gives you a$700 swing, as you said. Then you've got to make the numbers work in$700. If the numbers come out to be$1 ,000, you're losing$300 a month to drive your own car rather than drive theirs because you want a little bit bigger car. And wouldn't do that. Wouldn't do that. That's like having a car payment. I'll pass.

1:56:11George Kamel:Yeah, I wouldn't combine your personal goals with this. Just see it as utility for work. What makes the most financial sense?

1:56:16Dave Ramsey:Good point. Very good point.

1:56:28Thank you.

1:57:14Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, Psalm 119, 114. You're my place of quiet retreat. I wait for your word to renew me. Ronald Reagan said, peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means. Ooh, pretty good there. I like that. Curtis is with us in Texas. Hi, Curtis. How are you?

1:57:40George Kamel:I'm good. How are you?

1:57:41Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up?

1:57:44George Kamel:Yes, I have a question about my car. I have a$26 ,000 Tesla, and I wrecked it. I didn't have insurance, and the fix on it is$13 ,000. I currently have$6 ,000 saved, and I just don't know what to do.

1:58:04Dave Ramsey:What does it take to repair the Tesla?

1:58:07George Kamel:$13 ,000, and I found another place that said they could do it for$9 ,000 without fixing the front bumper. The front bumper don't need to be repaired.

1:58:18Dave Ramsey:Why did the front bumper need to be repaired at the other place?

1:58:23George Kamel:Because Tesla themselves, they fix everything. They can't just fix one problem.

1:58:30Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you have a body shop check it and you had Tesla dealership check it. Yes. Okay, so you can fix it for$9 ,000 and you got$6 ,000. Why were you not carrying insurance, Curtis? Isn't that the law in Texas? No, not collision. You had liability only?

1:58:49George Kamel:Yes, I only had liability. Because at the time, I make a decent amount of money, but at the time I had just got out of jail and I had to pay all that stuff. And I was just getting back on my feet and the insurance was the bill that I chose not to pay.

1:59:08Dave Ramsey:Ouch. So note to self, don't drive a$26 ,000 car with no insurance. Yes. When you're broke. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. Okay. Because, I mean, it obviously killed you, right? I mean, you can buy a lot of insurance for this nine grand. So what do you make?

1:59:26George Kamel:I make about$70 ,000 a month. Okay.

1:59:31Dave Ramsey:And how much was your insurance?

1:59:35George Kamel:$450 ,000. Okay.

1:59:40Dave Ramsey:All right. Was it a DUI you were in for? No.

1:59:46George Kamel:It was a direct charge I went to jail for.

1:59:49Dave Ramsey:Okay, so that didn't affect your insurance then. That's what I was asking. All right. I don't know. Okay. All right, so your question is whether to fix the car or not?

2:00:00George Kamel:Yeah, I don't know what to do. I was thinking about just going to buy a cash car and sending that car back, but I don't know how that process worked at all.

2:00:10Dave Ramsey:No, that's called repossession. No, we don't want to do that. What do you owe on the Tesla?

2:00:17George Kamel:About$24 ,000. Okay.

2:00:20Dave Ramsey:No, you need to fix it, hon. And you're going to scratch up the other$3 ,000 to do it because you don't have the money right now. Is it drivable? No, it's not drivable. What are you driving? I'm driving a rental car. When did you wreck it?

2:00:37George Kamel:I wrecked it about two months ago. So I've been in the rental for about two months. Wow. That's expensive. And how long is it going to take to repair it? Because I've heard some stories about Tesla's taking a long time to get fixed up. They said about four weeks. So can you start the repair now and pay it in four weeks? Yes.

2:00:59Dave Ramsey:I mean, would you have the other$3 ,000 to go with your$6 ,000 so you had nine in four weeks?

2:01:05George Kamel:Because I have enough that I don't know if I do, because I get paid monthly for my VA check. I get a housing allowance and also work. and if I take my VHC to add on to it, they'll leave some bills not paid. No, you got to pay all your bills first. Yeah. But can you scratch up$3 ,000 out of the seven you make in the next 30 days? I think I could. I would make it my life mission to do so and start the repair now.

2:01:36Dave Ramsey:Well, don't start the repair until you know you're going to have the money, okay? Okay. Because you can't, and you got a car sitting over there, you can't pay the bill that you promised to pay. We don't want to create another problem. All right? So I want you to have your hands almost on the$3 ,000. You need$9 ,000 in your account or very close to being in your account before you start the repair, and then you need to start the repair as soon as possible. And then get the repair done, then get the Tesla sold.

2:02:04George Kamel:Okay, so fix it and then sell the car.

2:02:06Dave Ramsey:Yeah, because that gets you out of it. You can't get out of it right now. You're stuck.

2:02:12George Kamel:Now, if you didn't fix the front bumper, what do you think you can sell it for?

2:02:15Dave Ramsey:That's nine. He can fix it for nine. He won't get the front bumper fixed for nine. Yes. No, he said 13 if he takes it to Tesla, nine without the bumper at the other place. So nine fixes it, and you've got six in the bank, right? Yes.

2:02:27George Kamel:And the front bumper is not really that much damage. The only reason they know is that the front bumper was hit at all is because Tesla got the candle fixed. Okay. I'm just making sure it's not going to decrease the value when you go to sell it.

2:02:39Dave Ramsey:Now, you've got to get it sold for 24 so you can get out of it at the end of the story and get your life back, okay? Okay. And then never drive a car without insurance again. When you're broke, it makes you broker. So everything compounds then, and you get in a bigger mess and a bigger mess. Mary's in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Mary. How are you?

2:03:01George Kamel:I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for talking with me today.

2:03:05Dave Ramsey:Sure. How can we help?

2:03:05George Kamel:Pretty big life decision in my mind that I'm hoping to get your input on. I had the opportunity to go from a self-employed government contractor to a full-time employee with the lead agency that the grant that I work for is supporting. And the big thing that I think is keeping me on the fence is my age. I'm 59. We are on baby step five. Ideally, plan to have the house paid off in the next four years.

2:03:45Dave Ramsey:Good.

2:03:46George Kamel:Yes, thank you. Thanks to you all.

2:03:49Dave Ramsey:What are you making as a contractor?

2:03:51George Kamel:So my gross is 87 right now annually, which includes a 30 % fringe. And so that is built into that 87 for me to self-incorporate, pay my own taxes, my own insurance, all of that.

2:04:09Dave Ramsey:Okay. So 87 minus you pay your own expenses. Correct. Okay. Gotcha. And so the full-time gig that's not contract, what are they offering?

2:04:20George Kamel:So 30 % less of that. So my gross would be 63 and change.

2:04:28Dave Ramsey:Okay. Okay, and you're not coming out of pocket for that much.

2:04:36George Kamel:I'm sorry, Dave.

2:04:37Dave Ramsey:Okay, your fringe is not costing you that. $30 ,000? Correct. $24 ,000? You're buying your what? Your own health insurance, right?

2:04:50George Kamel:My own health insurance. I am self-funding my own retirement, so I'm putting 20%, about$18 ,000 a year.

2:05:00Dave Ramsey:You're going to be doing that anyway.

2:05:03George Kamel:I think$15 ,000 I can do at the new gig.

2:05:08Dave Ramsey:They're going to give you some match there, but they're not doing it for you.

2:05:12George Kamel:Correct.

2:05:15Dave Ramsey:Retirement, you've got to do anyway. You're not saving that. That's not a fringe you're saving. So what's the health insurance cost?

2:05:23George Kamel:so for employee only they pick that up no no honey i mean your current current cost right now it's 600 a month okay so you're not on your husband's plan

2:05:35Dave Ramsey:no he is retired on okay okay so 600 a month so seven grand all right and the um what else is the fringe uh half your tax on it is seven six five tax because you got self-employment tax versus they're covering the W-2 tax, right?

2:05:54George Kamel:That's right.

2:05:55Dave Ramsey:Yeah, so 7 % would be another 7K. That's 14. All right. What else?

2:06:04George Kamel:I think the big thing is frustration right now with the whole marketplace.

2:06:10Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, it's a$10 ,000 pay cut. It is. That's a lot of frustration.

2:06:17George Kamel:And you are right, and that's why I'm wanting somebody to kind of walk me through this.

2:06:23Dave Ramsey:Math says stay. Yeah, math says stay on contract. You know, unless you think that the risk is so high with a frustrating marketplace that it's not going to be there anyway, so then we're not comparing apples to apples anymore. So I'm a big self-employed guy. Sorry, I'm always going to lean that way unless there's a math reason not to. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.