Behavior Matters More Than Math

26:32Dave Ramsey:Yeah, it needs to go both ways. This is not cool. Yeah, and my fear, Matt, is that a 3 % interest rate is going to rattle your one-year marriage. You know what I mean? If your wife is already taking his side in a level of logic, right of just just math just like oh i just want to save money and not looking at the relational equity of what this is doing and then the potential risk of your home um yeah it's it's probably going to cause some some waves but i would say it's probably necessary i'm going to cause some way i'm gonna start out gentle and i'm gonna turn it up yeah start out kind and honoring and say i appreciate this i i know you've got good intentions i love you and i appreciate this But I simply am not going to go forward with this.

27:19Dave Ramsey:It's not going to happen. Okay. It's not worth the 3 % savings. Your risk that you're taking is astronomical. It's ridiculous. It's a horrible deal for you. And I asked my wife if she was in the opposite role. If my family had purchased us a house and she was paying a majority of it, would she be comfortable in this deal? And she said she wouldn't be comfortable. Well, then we have to decide, are we going to leave our father and mother and cleave to our husband and cleave to our wife? It's an old fashioned saying, you leave the father and cleave. It's old English from the old English Bible. But yeah, you know, but we have to set up.

28:01Dave Ramsey:OK, who's running your house now, her dad or you guys? And again, this to me, I'm like, this is a totally I don't like the idea of people using family as a bank. Right. People do this with student loans. They do it with mortgages. And it's always a little icky and weird. It just kind of changes the relationship. But the thing on top of it for Matt, for me, is if you guys start having kids and you're building a family, the place that you call home that is supposed to be your home. That's why it doesn't make sense to me of his logic. This is your home and her home, his daughter's home. and why he doesn't give you all the dignity of putting your name on the title, of following through with the plan that's already agreed to, is odd to me.

28:44And his fear, I'm like, I'm a little offended. If you're going to do this deal with me and be my banker and be the husband to your wife, and you can't trust me with a million-dollar house, you know what I mean? It just adds to the relational dynamic. Yeah. Yes, it does indeed. And that's why I kind of lose sleep over it. And I see as every month goes on, it's harder to bring up this conversation.

29:11Dave Ramsey:Yeah. I think the two of you, you and your wife, need to sit down with a good therapist, a good financial counselor. I mean, a good marriage counselor and maybe your pastor if you have one. And you guys need to talk it through. And then you need to decide what you're going to do. And then as a unified front, you've got to present it to him. And, yeah, together or her. We're either going to refinance this and get it out of your name and put it into our name, or we're going to hand you the keys and we're going to move. And so, because we're not going forward. And listen, don't accept a mortgage from him either.

29:44Dave Ramsey:If he says, okay, I'll put it in your name and I'll just put a mortgage on it. No, I do not want to owe this man money. This has got a bad vibe on it. the best thing you can do for your wife and your marriage is for this guy not to be between you anymore and i think his intentions are good i don't think his intentions are bad i just think he's emotionally immature i would never look at winston cruz and say i can't put this in your name because i don't trust you after i handed my daughter's hand to him that's what i'm saying it's so odd. I gave him the most precious thing I have on the planet. One of my daughters.

30:26I don't trust you with a house.

30:28Dave Ramsey:But I don't trust you with a stupid house. Oh, it's backwards. No, thank you. It's backwards. That's just emotionally bad. Oh, Matt, I'm sorry. And your wife, I'm like, oh. This is going to be a hard process. It is. But dude. But it's going to be good for you guys. If you guys get through this. Choose the conflict today because the one that's laying out there 10 years from now is much bigger.

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32:35Dave Ramsey:Whether you're a person of faith or not, Proverbs is the book of the Bible that is called the wisdom literature. The vast majority of it was written by Solomon, which those of us that are Christians or Jewish believe Solomon to be one of the wisest men to ever live. And he wrote Wisdom in the book of Proverbs. And then we fast forward and it becomes our Bible, or in the case of a Jewish person, their Bible, the Talmud, what Christians would call the Talmud, what the Jewish person calls the Bible. and the wisdom literature is most of us in evangelical Christianity or Orthodox Judaism believe it to be literal.

33:20Dave Ramsey:And so that gives people trouble in some cases, but that's okay. The borrower, Proverbs 22, 7 says, the borrower is slave to the lender. Now, everybody that's listening, think about this for a second. How many times have we had payments to some organization, a car company, a credit card, a bank, and we resent that organization? We signed up for it, but by the time we finish paying off the truck, we hate Chevrolet, or at least Chevrolet, General Motors Finance. By the time we finish paying off the Toyota, we can't stand Toyota Finance. By the time we finish paying off Citibank, we hate Citibank.

34:17Dave Ramsey:Make fun of the mortgage company name that you pay payments to. It's because slaves seldom love their masters. It's not literal slavery in the sense of you gave up ownership, but it is mathematical and legal slavery, and if you don't believe it is slavery, try not having it. financial yeah financial when you pay off your mortgage and you pay off all your cars and you pay off all your student loan and you don't have a single people they stand differently well it's a spirit it's a spiritual freedom because money is so tied to so much of our lives and when you hand that part of your life over to someone else it is a form of bondage you've given them ownership yeah that there's not full autonomy over the work that you have created in the paycheck that you've created through your work.

35:10Dave Ramsey:So when Sharon and I went broke and we discovered that scripture among others, we decided not that debt is a sin, but that it's really dumb. And so we decided under no circumstances are we borrowing money. But we also have observed in 30 or almost 40 years of doing this now that there is zero case that I'm going to loan money to one of my children. I'm going to loan money to another relative. I'm going to loan money to a friend because it instantaneously, whether you want it to or not, you don't have a choice in the matter. The law of gravity is the law of gravity, whether you like it or agree with it.

35:53Dave Ramsey:It changes your relationship with your friend to two good friends to master servant. And the old joke is if you loan your brother-in-law$100 and he never speaks to you again, was it worth it? Yeah, ha-ha. Okay? Um, so, but, but, you know, cause it severs relationships. It ruins relationships. And some of you try all kinds of ways to twist it up and make it okay and figure out that the math works and all this other bull crap. And it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. So if you have a friend that needs some money and you want to give them some money, give them some money. Period. Don't loan them money.

36:37Dave Ramsey:If you want to help your kids get a million-dollar house, give them a million-dollar house. I got some questions about that, but before you loan them a million dollars, give it to them.

36:52Dave Ramsey:See, what that does, it changes your decision then. Or my mom is 69 and she has no money saved and she's paying rent and I'm going to buy a house and let her rent it from me. No. you just changed your relationship. Your mother is now your freaking renter. How dumb is that? That's just dumb. Think about it. That's relationally inept. No. If you have the money to buy a house and pay cash for it and your mother live there until she dies free, fine. Or you pay her rent somewhere else. If you want to write her some check to give her some money every month to help her with her rent. Fine. But don't make her your renter.

37:40Dave Ramsey:Good Lord. When you say that out loud, it just sounds dumb, y 'all. And yet some of you have figured out, oh, intellectually, this is the best I can. I'll have the investment, and at least I know the tenant. What? Yeah, she changed your diaper, you butt. And now you're charging her rent. Unbelievable. Yeah, you know your renter. Golly. And if you have to have the rent in order to pay the mortgage payment, you shouldn't buy the house. Exactly. You can't afford the house. You're doing crap you can't do. If you have to have the return on investment, you can't afford it. Don't do it. Buy a rental property and put a renter in it if that's what you want to do.

38:19Dave Ramsey:But don't do this to your parents. Don't do this to your kids. Don't do this to your cousin. Don't do this to your friend and expect them to be a friend. the number of families that are split up and never speak to each other again over a couple of thousand dollars that was handed to somebody and no deal was really made, just pay me back when you can, and then four months later you're like, hey, I need that money back. The borrower is slave to the lender. Stop it. Stop it. And another version of that's cosigning for them. Proverbs 17, 18. New King James says, one lacking in cents cosigns for another.

39:01Dave Ramsey:The contemporary English version says, if you cosign for someone else, you're stupid. That's what the Bible said. So guess what? The bank doesn't want to loan them money because they don't think they're going to pay them. But I'll sign up for it because I think they're going to pay, even though the bank, who eats, lives, and breathes debt more than anything, wants you to be in debt, doesn't want to give this guy money, but you're going to co-sign for him. How ridiculously stupid is this whole thing? And yet it's very commonplace, and it's why most people are broke. And it's why relational breakdown in the marriage is everywhere.

39:39Dave Ramsey:So moms and dads, if you want to help your kids and you have the money, give it to them. If you want to put some stipulations on it, like, I don't want you to borrow money. I don't want you a free house. That's a reasonable stipulation. I want you to stay out of debt because that's how we got here. That's a good stipulation. You should do that. But then you don't go over there every week and go, are you about to borrow money? Are you about to borrow money? You don't have a weekly check-in on, no, stop it, you control freaks. And boys and girls, when you leave your mommy and daddy's house, leave.

40:19You're talking about all the adults that move back in?

40:22Dave Ramsey:period leave leave emotionally set up your own household to where you and your husband you and your wife are a family unit and these other people are separate from you you don't keep your mother you don't stay on your mother's cell phone plan what are you 14 you know get get your own netflix account for god's sakes hold on this is one i just ripped our own family on hypocritical i pay my own i know i pay my own netflix i just you know we have found out other ramsey children i just discovered that my wife gave our code to one of the other people in our family and i had a duck fit i'm like you're a grown human being get your own freaking netflix account you don't need to suck off that's ridiculous that's okay i know no get your own pay your own insurance have a life The worst, I think, is people sharing Amazon Prime accounts with their parents.

41:23I'm like, uh-uh. I don't want to.

41:26Dave Ramsey:Well, now I know exactly what all your spending pattern is. I'm like, no. Stay out of my life. I don't want to know when you order toilet paper. I got a new Mahjong said, and I don't want you to know about it. Okay. I wouldn't have known anyway, but your mother might have. No, but for real, though, there is a separation to happen. It's very important. And the problem is, well, we're going to pay the grandkids. No, you're broke. Stop it. Be grownups. But if you have the money, be generous and give without strings attached. That's wonderful. And be generous. That's wonderful. Be generous. But then there's no strings attached.

42:05Dave Ramsey:That's right. The borrower is slave to the lender, and you're not the freaking exception.

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43:39Dave Ramsey:welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio i'm dave ramsey rachel cruz ramsey personality my daughter is my co-host today jason's in pensacola hi jason how are you i'm fine how are you better than i deserve what's up Well, I have some serious questions based on some serious debt. Basically, I got sick about five years ago, and I've been in remission for quite a few years now. I was released to go back to work. But in that time, it was a month after we bought our house that I found out I was sick. So I was a firefighter for 30 years, and I was medically retired. Of course, I had to wait on the government to pay me for, you know, workman's comp except me for being getting cancer on the job.

44:34And then once they paid me, of course, I used my credit cards to pay, keep my house afloat that we had just bought and medical bills and other things. And so basically I have zero retirement. I'm 51 years old, married. All my kids are grown. And we own a house and about, not counting my truck payment, about$40 ,000 in credit cards. Okay. And I don't know what to do. I just know that I'm tired of living like this.

45:09Dave Ramsey:But you beat cancer. Yes, sir. You beat cancer, right? Yes, sir. Wow. That's the number one victory, Jason. You're still here. It's amazing. That's a big deal. It's amazing. Yeah. Congratulations, Fighters. It's a hard road. Yeah. Way to go. So what's the truck? What do you owe on the truck? About$40 ,000. And what's it worth? I'm upside down. Underwater about$8 ,000 to$10 ,000. So you looked it up, man. You can sell it for$30 ,000. Yes, sir. I've been offered$30 ,000 from Kelly. The dealer. Kelly Blue Book, the dealer called me and offered me that much. That means you probably can get$35 for it.

45:56Dave Ramsey:Okay. Because that's a wholesale offer, which is not evil. It's just a low offer because they're trying to turn it and make money on it. Now then, and your credit card debt is how much? About$40. So you got$80. Between me and my wife. Yeah, but you have$40 in addition to your, so$80 total. Yes, sir. Okay, got you. And you are retired medically from the fire department, and you are paid what a month from that? I bring home about$900 after all my health insurance and everything comes out. $900 a month. And then$900 a month. And then once I was released to go back to work, I went and got a full-time job.

46:41And I make that much I bring home every biweekly.

46:47Dave Ramsey:and then i'm sorry how much do you bring home from that job um about 900 bi-weekly oh i see 1800 1800 and then my wife brings home about 1400 and something bi-weekly and i've never done um i just started i was a pastor name via the church so i started listening to your podcasts about two weeks ago. And I know, well, actually on the first, because I went and got a third and fourth job. So I'm side hustling about$1 ,000 to$1 ,200 a month. Good. So we've got about$5 ,000 or$6 ,000 coming in total then. Yes, sir. We went from making$99 ,000, basically$99 ,000 a year, and then I'm bringing home about$1 ,000 a month.

47:41Between me and my wife, we're bringing home about$1 ,000 a month with side hustle. Yeah.

47:45Dave Ramsey:Okay. So about 6 ,800 with the side hustle. Yeah. Yes, ma 'am. It's great, Jason. Great. Yeah, you're not afraid of work. So it sounds like your health has recovered pretty well. Yes, sir. I just had a section of each kidney cut out. Okay. But you're back and working, and I'm not afraid to work. Your new job, your new career, the 1 ,800, is what? I deliver nuclear medicine. Okay. it's a delivery job okay yes sir delivering nuclear medicine to hospitals so that's the way i figured i could still help yeah sure once i was they helped me so now i'm helping them i just wonder jason if you're able to sell this truck take out a small loan of maybe 14 go get a four thousand dollar car have the difference of the 10 put all that together and then your credit card.

48:42If you guys can throw$2 ,000 a month at this debt, you could be out in two years.

48:47Dave Ramsey:Okay. And then you'll be in a position to rebuild your retirement. Yeah, yeah. Now, the other piece that goes with this is you made a lot more than this when you worked for the fire department, didn't you? Yes, sir. I worked at – I was a federal firefighter, so I worked on the base. Oh, wow. Okay. I wasn't – I was civil service. Yeah, but you were making – You were making a lot more than$1 ,800 a month. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah. We were making about$90. I was making about$90 before, not even counting the life. And then we dropped it. Now I make about, with my retirement, about$27. Okay. So, yes, I would sell the truck and get a$4 ,000 car and start working on the credit card debt and work eight jobs.

49:28Dave Ramsey:That's what you're doing. Every bit of that makes sense to me. I also would tell you that you're in Chapter 2. Chapter 1 was a$90 ,000 firefighter. Chapter 2 is not an$1 ,800 delivery driver. That's a temporary stop. Yes, sir. So we've got to figure out what Chapter 2 is that's$90 ,000 or$120 ,000 a year because you're only 51. Yes, sir. So you've got lots of time to do lots of things, and you know a lot about things in and around emergency care, first responder stuff. there's a lot of options and things that you may be able to do there um uh and i would i would explore every bit of that and say okay what do i want to be when i grow up i'm starting fresh and what you did is you landed on your feet got anything you could get so you could get back to work and this enables you to get back to work and help people which is good but you're not making any money and so i want you to i want you to go help people and make a lot of money and uh because it cleans up your life and and it's a it's part it's the final step of your rebound is to get your income back up to where it was not just your debt or your finances back where they were yeah because if you can earn that kind of money you can get out of this mess fast yeah absolutely and then you know just think you got you working you know 10 let's say 10 15 years um And if you invested$3 ,000 a month, just threw a ton at retirement every single month, it'd be about$640 ,000.

51:08Dave Ramsey:To retire them. Is what it comes out to be. You can retire a millionaire. Yeah. And that's just that, at that, at 10%. So, I mean, even if there were some great months going on, and if you went a little bit more and worked a little more, I mean, all of it. Like, the numbers really can work in your favor. Yeah, but part of this is you have to emotionally recover from thinking you were going to die and from recovering. You recover mentally. I mean, you have to recover mentally and emotionally and then start to see, you know, the possibilities again in your income. And the frustration of cancer, like what it's taken from you, your health.

51:45Oh, yeah, it stole from you. And then your money, you know, your retirement, everything. It stole everything. It's so defeating. So defeating.

51:51Dave Ramsey:So maddening. But the fact that you are here, Jason. Amen. And you and your wife on the same page. Amen. You really can make a great second chapter of your life. So we'll send you a copy of Finding the Work You're Wired to Do by Ken Coleman. I hope it'll help you.

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53:41Dave Ramsey:Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? Missed private student loan payments can leave you feeling like your goals are on hold. because you're stuck. Why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options that'll fit your budget and make you not stuck. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Evan in South Dakota. I hear you talk frequently to callers who have high car payments and are living beyond their means. I travel a lot for work and I need dependable transportation. Anytime I bought a beater car, I ended up paying for it in repair bills.

54:22Where do you recommend finding a$4 ,000 to$5 ,000 vehicle that is reliable? It's a good question. Well, I mean, honestly, finding an individual who's selling is going to be your best bet. And we usually find this is funny, but it's true. Usually an elderly person, a lot of people's grandparents who have a car that's literally been sitting in the driveway. It's probably older, but the mileage is so low because they're not using it a ton.

54:51Dave Ramsey:Got a lot of life left in it. Yes, yes. And if you go, I mean, honestly, if you look on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, you can do some research and find, and again, you're going to be in this car for maybe nine months and then you move again. Like, it's not like you're going to be in it long term. There may be moving up slowly, slowly, slowly out of it, out of that price range. But the, I mean, we see it a lot that people have it. So you, and you want to make sure you have an inspection, right? You go to a mechanic, make sure they look over it. And if there's anything obviously wrong with it, that's going to cost you a lot, then don't do it.

55:27But -

55:27Dave Ramsey:Yeah, and part of that is research the type of car. You know, an old Chevy Chevette is not good because they weren't good when they were new. so i mean an old dodge neon is not good because it wasn't good when it was new so get a car that had some has some life to it you know the the toyota camry the honda accord um those kinds of things they're very seldom sexy cars but they're cars that just are workhorses and they go and they go and they go they're ever ready bunnies they go and they go and they go Okay. And that is, it's not a forever thing. It's you drive like no one else. So later you can drive like no one else.

56:11Dave Ramsey:Now, let's go ahead and parlay this into, he mentioned one thing here that I want to add to this. I travel a lot for work. Now, I don't know what that means in your case, Evan, but I will tell you this. There's a mistake that a lot of people make that are literally on the road every day. Now, if you travel a lot for work, it means you drive out of town and you're there all week and you drive back. That's different. But if you're putting 50 ,000 miles a year on a car, you're destroying whatever you drive. Because you put 50 ,000 miles on a car, you've destroyed its value. And so the value is going to not only go down normally, it's going to go off a cliff.

56:52Dave Ramsey:You're going to lose value like crazy. And so when you're a road warrior because you're in sales or you're in whatever, whatever you're driving is an expense. That's all it is. It's not a luxury. I drive 12 minutes to work. That's a luxury. I can drive whatever I want, and I'm not destroying it. But if you're driving 50 ,000 miles a year and you drive a$50 ,000 car, you're turning it into a$5 ,000 car,$10 ,000 car in one year. And I do wonder for your work, because a lot of, I mean, one of my good friends, I mean, she goes, we're in Nashville, but she goes to Chattanooga, Birmingham, Huntsville.

57:29I mean, she's doing day trips.

57:31Dave Ramsey:If you're doing that, the$4 ,000 or$5 ,000 car is probably not what you want. No, but work furnishes for a lot of people. Some people, or it gives them money. Money, yeah. So I'm curious what that reimbursement looks like for you, Evan. But reimbursement does not require you being dad. Yeah. It just requires, in some cases, that you have a car of a certain age. So here's the thing. If you're putting that kind of miles on a car, I wouldn't drive more than a$20 ,000 car. But I wouldn't drive a$5 ,000 car either because it's not going to be reliable. So you need to drive the least vehicle that will, in quotes, get the job done.

58:03Dave Ramsey:And let me tell you what that means. It means it's reasonably comfortable because you're in it all the time. So, again, we're not putting you in a smart car for 12 hours a day. You'd be in a chiropractor. Okay? So it has to be reasonably comfortable. and it has to be reliable so again i'm back in a honda accord i'm back in a toyota camry i'm a rav4 you know what i mean i'm back in a uh you know a chevy pickup uh a ford pickup you know any of that depend on your gas mileage and what you're doing and what you're hauling what you're selling all that kind of stuff so but you want something that's dependable and comfortable but you don't drive an expensive car or truck when you're doing this because you're destroying the freaking thing value wise so quit going and you know and and you know that goes for my friends that are real estate agents quit buying two hundred thousand dollar cars to show houses in we all know you can't drive you drive over the edge of a curb run into a mailbox to hit something you're because you're always paying attention to something else oh look there's a house for sale and whipping around and the real estate agents i'm one of them we're add and you're just all over the place so quit buying expensive cars buy a reasonably nice car to show houses in but no one buys a car because you had a buys a house because you had a two hundred thousand dollar car versus you had a fifty thousand dollar car nobody does that's just bullcrap that's in your head and you're justifying buying something you can't afford stop it so all of that to say rachel's right when you're doing the four to five thousand there's plenty of good ones but they're usually not cool they're not cool car they're not no one's gonna stop at the stoplight and go woohoo.

59:43Well, it might be seven months and you're going to have to trade out again, which is a pain. But if it's the thing that gets you out of debt the fastest, that's the inconvenience that's worth it.

59:51Dave Ramsey:We did it. We drove a borrowed car that had 400 ,000 miles on it. And I drove it for what? 400? 400 ,000 miles. No. It did. It did. It was an old Cadillac. It had predominant color was Bondo. The vinyl roof was torn loose. We drove it for three months. I told people we drove it for 10 years in one three-month period. It felt like 10 years. but I didn't have a car payment and I saved up a thousand dollars because I wanted to get rid of this and I took it back to my friend and gave it back to him he loaned it to me because he knew how broke I was and um and then I got a thousand dollar car and that thousand dollar car believe it or not got totaled I left it in a parking lot and some people beat it up and I actually for some stupid reason put insurance on it and I got two thousand dollars from the insurance company so i put twelve hundred dollars with it went bought a thirty two hundred dollar car and then we sold that about a year later for thirty two hundred dollars it didn't go down it was already you know and then we bought a ten thousand dollar car and so on and so that's how we did it and you can do it too and but but your friends your friends are not impressed the brown car that's the thirty two hundred one yeah you remember it the front wheel drive oldsmobile it's pretty ugly well and the vinyl root the roof yeah um was detached so every time it kind of would stop it would just bubble up yeah yeah i do remember that yeah but i'm poking i'm not spending money to impress you at a stoplight i don't even know you i'm just trying to feed my kids you know i'm just trying to eat i'm just trying to get out of this mess and never come back i drove like no one else.

1:01:28Dave Ramsey:So now what I drive is anything I want. And I don't buy cars for what other people think. I buy cars now because I like them. And that's kind of a problem because I like a lot of them. But it's, you know, you can get there. If you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. So road warriors, quit wasting your money. And those of you that are driving hoopties, they're not all bad. And Rachel's point is really valid. You're probably not doing this for even a year. That car only needs to last you a year. Yeah, some people think the car buying, and I can get in this mindset where it's a...

1:02:02It's permanent. Yeah, it feels like I'm going to have to drive this to the wheels, like I have to drive this forever and ever. And it's like, no, no, no, it's okay.

1:02:07Dave Ramsey:I can just get another one. You're fine. It's not a house. It's not a house. You could just sell it. It's not a house, yes. You could buy a different one every week. I mean, other than the tax problem and the registration, it's, you know, but you could just... Right, it's not a long-term thing. No, no. Yeah. Yeah, so don't feel so permanent. And so here's the thing. If you don't have a car payment for 12 months and your car payment was$1 ,000, that's$12 ,000. So then you can sell that$5 ,000 car. By the way, it'd be about like my$3 ,200 one. It doesn't go down in value. So you can sell it for$5 ,000 and put your$12 ,000 with it and get a$17 ,000 car and do that for 12 more months.

1:02:43Dave Ramsey:And then you could get a$29 ,000 car if you just save your own car payment. stop it with the car payments

1:03:19Thank you.

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1:04:47Dave Ramsey:Alan is in Indianapolis. Hey, Alan, how are you? I'm all right. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm looking for help getting my fiancé on board with sticking to a budget. Okay. How long have you been engaged? We've been engaged for about a year. Okay. And when will you be getting married? Well, we haven't set a solid date on it yet. We've got a one-year-old, so between taking care of him and I'd like to be a little bit better out of debt before we get married. Why? You already had a baby. Yeah. And what's the point? Might as well get married. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, side subject.

1:05:35Dave Ramsey:All right, now the – How old are you guys, Alan? I'm 26 and she's 25. Okay, great. And what's the conversations been like about budgeting together? You're not married, so you technically should still be on separate budgets with separate incomes and everything until you're legally married just to protect. She needs that protection for her and you need that protection for you. But well, she won't be entirely honest about how much that she has. I know it's excess of 15 ,000. Why would she be honest? You know, I don't think she wants to tell me how much, and I know she hasn't been paying a lot of it.

1:06:18She moved away from her hometown to move down with me, and I've been the primary source of income for both of us since that happened. You think she has$15 ,000 in debt or savings? Debt. Debt, okay. And why would she not want to be honest with you? I think she's embarrassed about it. because of the way you've presented it? I mean, that could be some of it. I think she just, she doesn't like where she's at and she doesn't want to open up to me about it entirely because it's a vulnerable thing for her and that's something that she kind of struggles with, being vulnerable, especially about stuff like that.

1:07:02Okay, so I think that's probably more of the root issue is that you guys are living together, you have a baby together, you're engaged to be married and from a relational IQ stance, you guys don't have the equity, relational equity to hold each other's situations. And that's, does that feel like a red flag to you that you guys can't be fully honest about what's going on? Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah. So I w I would work on having that conversation and the way you present it, Alan is really, really important because if she feels like crap when it comes to money if she feels dumb if she regrets all of this and you're like well you need to be doing this and this and this and you gotta you know sometimes people can come hard on um someone that's already down and so I would say to love her really well in that and to have a lot of humility a lot of grace and your desire is to know her and to know her situation and not to shame her, but for you guys to start working together to have a plan for your future, because your future, I'm hoping, is together, right?

1:08:17And to be a married couple. And so to make some forward, some progress forward, some steps. So last year I made about$96 ,000. Okay.

1:08:29Dave Ramsey:What do you do? I'm a law enforcement officer. Okay, good. Okay. Well, the way I answer questions and the way we always have on the Ramsey Show is what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Knowing what I know about the data that's out there and what it takes to win in a marriage and the data that's on that and the data that's what it takes to win to build wealth. And by the way, they're pretty similar, which is interesting. So the single people that are 30 that are living together have a net worth that's somewhere around 14 times smaller than the married people that are 30 that are living together.

1:09:14Dave Ramsey:And so the data tells us that marriage tends towards a much better financial situation versus being in a shacked up. Okay? That's what the data tells us. So now that I know that, I'm getting married this weekend. Not for the money. Not for the money. But I have a child. But you have a quality. Yes. And I'm taking this lady. I'm already taking care of her. You're basically married, Alan. Not as well be. Yeah. Not as well be. And so go ahead and get that done. And there's no like, I have to get out of debt first. I didn't have to wait to have a baby. So no. I mean, that's a lot bigger deal than getting out of debt.

1:09:51Dave Ramsey:So let's, you know, that's what I would do. I'd get married this weekend. And then, to Rachel's point, I would begin to say, okay, we are going to work on all of our prosperity and all of our bright future together. And we, together, are going to make decisions that cause that to happen. And so, and I'm going to help and you're going to help. And we're both going to have a vote. and we need to sit down and say, okay, what's blocking that? And so whatever debt you got, hon, we're going to clean it up right quick. That's our first thing. And then we're going to start saving money for retirement.

1:10:31Dave Ramsey:I mean, save money for an emergency fund. Then we're going to save money for a down payment. Then we're going to save money for retirement. Then we're going to save money for junior's college fund. And then we're going to pay off the house. And we're going to become millionaires in the next 12 years. And we are going to sit down together and we're going to look at that and we're both going to tell each other everything about everything. and I'm going to help and you're going to help. And that's what Rachel's talking about, building relational equity. And there's no shaming in that. It's like, you did what?

1:10:58Dave Ramsey:You know, unless after we agree to doing something, you go back and do something else. Yeah, but the power dynamic in the situation. I mean, is she home with the baby, Alan? Because she said she's not bringing home an income, right? She is. She works part-time. Okay. Because she feels like she needs time out of the house and I'm not going to be willing to argue with that. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's great. It's great. Yeah. So that's what I would do. And you say, I want us to be aligned on saving money. I want us to be aligned on getting out of debt. I want us to be aligned on what we're spending.

1:11:33Dave Ramsey:And both of us talking about it and both of us having a vote in this as a husband and wife team. And let's go see the pastor of the Justice of the Peace this weekend. And then let's go build our life together. Yes. And because you're trying to run around with one foot on the boat and one on the dock and the boat keeps rocking and you're going to end up in the lake. You know, and so you just you need to get all in to the boat or back off on the dock. One of the two. And and remember on money is it's not the end goal. Right. Of marriage. It's the working together. It's the exactly it is. It's what it produces, what the money represents.

1:12:10When you guys are on the same page, you both have a voice. You're both being heard. Both of your opinions matter. Like all of that is a practice to every other part when you're talking about parenting and you're talking about in-laws, right? Like all, you're all the same person. And so when you can kind of work on one area of your life like that to get on the same page together, it's huge. And to know her and to serve her well. I mean, honestly, yeah, Alan, I mean, I would be like, you're a police officer. You know what to do. Step up, you know, step up and take care of her.

1:12:41Dave Ramsey:You see the families every day that things aren't going well with. Yeah. And so, yeah, you can just, you know, all you got to do is look at that and go, that's my anti-mentor. I'm going to go the other direction of those things. And none of the things Rachel and I have been talking about is what you're seeing. Yeah, the life you can create, Alan, as a husband, as a father, like all of that is incredible. Like men that step up. To serve and protect. And take care of. Yes, it is literally part of your DNA in your job. And when men do that and their wife, again, I'm so big on this, but they have an equal say.

1:13:16They have the ability to have an opinion and they are hurt. Like all of that together is beautiful. It is. I mean, almost every man I know wants to step up. And we also see it works. And it works. It's very practical. Yes, yes.

1:13:29Dave Ramsey:It absolutely works. What ends up happening is you have a high quality marriage and you've got lots of communication. She feels secure. Yeah. you feel like you are doing your part yep in stepping up like all of that is in this conversation and so I think there's a quality of marriage element there that's so big that you get to step into Alan yeah and not to shame her but you get to walk beside and help and it's a really it's a beautiful thing and thank God for that for two parents like that with this baby you know good for this kid yep absolutely get married this weekend

1:14:08Thank you.

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1:15:52Dave Ramsey:Devin is with us in Denver. Hi, Devin. How are you? Good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was a minority owner in electrical business, and I had to sell it. Well, I sold out, and I'm going to get my payout, and I'm trying to decide if I invest in a mutual fund or pay off my mortgage, which is at 2 7⁄8%. Okay. On a 30-year mortgage with 25 years left. What's the balance on your mortgage? $422 ,000. Wow. Nice payout. What's your payout going to be? Well, the payout is$335 ,000. Oh, so you don't have enough to pay off the mortgage. No, no. You don't have the other$100 ,000.

1:16:47I do have about$90 ,000 in savings right now, but I was going to use that to start my business back up and keep that aside for our three to six months emergency fund.

1:17:03Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right.

1:17:09Dave Ramsey:Well, let's go back to the original premise, and then let's figure out what to do with your particular situation. The original premise is I don't want to pay off my two and seven-eighths, and I'd rather invest it instead. I would not go with that theory. That theory doesn't hold up when we study the actual data of people who become millionaires. When we studied 10 ,000 millionaires, the number of them that said I borrowed on my home so that I could invest and that made me a millionaire was precisely zero. We didn't find a single millionaire that did that. And that's the essence of what you're doing.

1:17:43Dave Ramsey:You're saying when you don't pay off your house, it's the same as borrowing on it, right? And so, no, I'm always going to lead you to getting out of debt completely as fast as we can. But you've got some competing goals, and you don't have enough money to do this whole thing here. So there's something to think about. So how long have you been away from that business? I'm still employed. I have to work here until the end of the year. Oh, okay. All right. And what do you make? Right now I make$150 ,000. Good. $150 ,000. And are you going to go in? I assume you've got a non-compete, so you're going into a different business?

1:18:22The non-compete is not all of the existing customers. It's some of them. But I had my own business for seven years, and I partnered with a person.

1:18:33Dave Ramsey:But you can go into the same industry again, but just not take the customers. Yes, I can. Okay. Wow, that's unusual. Good, good. Okay. And so you're going to go open up a new shop? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I had my own shop. My shop is still alive. I never turned it off. It just, for the past three and a half years, it hasn't done any real business. Okay, so why does it take so much money to turn it back on?

1:19:00I guess I was, you know, saving out of the leftover money.

1:19:06Dave Ramsey:I know, I know. But I'm saying, you said you needed$90 ,000 to turn it back on. Why does it take$90 ,000 to turn it back on? It doesn't. Okay, good. $50 ,000 of it is our six months of emergency fund. What is? Six months. $60 ,000? $50 ,000. $50 ,000. So you have a$4 ,000 a month burn rate on your house. Yes, sir. All right. Okay, so$50 ,000 is that. So we've got$40 ,000 there to start the business and or put towards the house, and we're getting$300 ,000-something towards$400 ,000-something on the mortgage. So what I would do in your shoes is I would just take the buyout and the$40 ,000 and separate.

1:19:53Dave Ramsey:Set the$50 ,000 aside as your emergency fund. We're not touching that for anything, okay? Do you have any debt other than the house? My wife's car has$9 ,000 and change. Okay, pay that off. And we're on track to, okay. Pay that off today. Okay. Just try to check and pay it off, okay? So now we've got$30 ,000 to start the business and$50 ,000 in an emergency fund, but you don't have any payments but a house payment. Am I right? Correct. Okay. Now, then what I'm going to do is I'm going to take your$30 ,000 and park it with your buyout money in just a high-yield savings account for six months and let it just sit there while you get your business started.

1:20:34Dave Ramsey:When you get your business started and you're back to making$100 ,000 a year again, which will be pretty quick, I suspect, because you're going to start working on it between now and the end of the year to kind of get it restarted. It's not going to be a cold start in January. Then when you get back to making$100 ,000 again, then I'm going to take that money and throw it at the mortgage and be mostly done with the mortgage. And then your mortgage will be paid off in about three years or two years if you do that. Okay. And when you don't have a house payment, it changes the way you do business.

1:21:06Dave Ramsey:Your business will prosper. When you don't have a house payment, it changes everything. And people do not grasp it until they don't have a house payment. And then you take that huge cash flow that you've got without a house payment and you go become a multimillionaire. And really what this buyout has done is it sets you free from all this debt. And it took me a minute to kind of wander around through our system to get you to where I would go. That's what I would do. I would not keep the mortgage like it's a pet just because it only eats a little. Just requires a little bit. Yeah. It's still there.

1:21:40Dave Ramsey:Two and seven eights. Yeah. A little bowl of dog food. It's exciting, Devin, though. It makes a big headway with some of this. Yeah. It's a great deal. Well done. Very good. Stacy's in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Stacy. How are you? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So we have maybe an unusual problem. My husband and I have been on the same page for 27 of our 30-plus years of saving, scrimping, saving, scrimping, not spending money. And we are now at, I think, a very good, safe place. And I am comfortable starting to spend some of that money. Good. What's the safe place? What's your net worth?

1:22:25Almost$12 million.

1:22:27Dave Ramsey:Well, yes, you should be able to enjoy some of your money now, for sure. That's how I feel. And my husband is, you would think we're one month away from losing our house when I talked to him about things. And it's— It's very hard for someone who has held so tightly to savings, particularly his nature as he's a saver, to loosen up and enjoy life. But that's why God sent him you.

1:22:59it's it's just so i i feel like you know even on little things i was uh telling your screener just we we both from home we have one car um when our kids went to college um you need a car i mean that's that's weird isn't it yes that's weird you have 11 million 12 million dollars you need to go buy a car yeah it's like it's like the the problem the uh parable of bigger barns that's a classic to me you're just building and building and building and building and building for what for what for what just for another barn yes no that's not why you do it how do i how do i break through because i i don't know it's it's you're not gonna be able to change him it's gonna be it's gonna have to be his work that's that's deeply ingrained if you got 12 million dollars sitting there and you don't want to buy a car for your wife he's got some issues stacy yeah god love him Right.

1:23:51Yeah. And that's what I— How did he grow up with money? What's his story? Poor. Yeah, he grew up poor, but I'll tell you, I grew up more poor. I mean, I was the driving force here in our household of, like, you know, coupon cooking. This is not a financial thing.

1:24:09Dave Ramsey:It's not even a relational thing. It's a spiritual thing. It is for him, yeah. Godliness with contentment is great gain. And if you gain only from your money the fear of losing it, you didn't gain anything. And that's the parable of the bigger barns that Rachel's talking about in the Bible. And so enjoy some of it, be generous with some of it, and continue to save with some of it. And you should always be doing all three. I will tell you this. Sometimes the way to get someone to loosen up on spending is first get them to loosen up on generosity. helping others with some of this money. Open that hand up, yeah.

1:24:49Dave Ramsey:We need to allocate$100 ,000 a year to give away. That's going to blow your mind because you've never given that kind of money away. All you've done is save. Now to force yourself, Stacey, to give away$8 ,000 a month, you have to. And it can be in tips, it can be to an, but to do that. An orphanage, a pet shelter. Pet shelter. You'll hear of something going on and you'll write that check to help. I mean, there is some amazing things that happen in the world. And when you start to participate in that. Your money's making a million dollars a year. It opens that hands and that freedom is what that does.

1:25:28It gives you freedom from money.

1:25:29Dave Ramsey:And then it allows you to, gives you an excuse to enjoy some of it.

1:26:01We'll see you next time.

1:26:29Thank you. at ZipRecruiter.com slash Ramsey. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Ramsey. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

1:26:51Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Stephanie is with us in New Haven, Connecticut. Hi, Stephanie. How are you? Good, and you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my question is, I have an issue. I'm currently six months pregnant. Yay! My husband and I, yes, with my second child. My husband and I are trying to get ready for this maternity leave, but we don't really have a solution. I am the breadwinner. I am an entrepreneur, so I won't be having really any income during my three-month maternity leave. my husband doesn't know what to do I don't really know what to do we don't have any savings we had a blow through most of our savings recently to get a heating and cooling system in our home which was absolutely required because I just don't want to use space heaters anymore and we're really trying to figure out what we're going to do my husband thinks that he can't handle this he doesn't want to get a part-time job he thinks that we should just sell the house and even though we have a 2.65 % interest rate on our mortgage, he thinks we should just sell it and just live off his income and go back into a one-day room apartment.

1:28:03Dave Ramsey:What do you make? So I bring home about roughly$6 ,000 a month. Okay. And we're doing what? I'm a consultant. Oh, what kind of consultant? I help businesses with rent writing and strategic plans. Say again. We help businesses. Strategic plans. Strategic planning. What does he do, Stephanie? Sterile processing technician. And how much does he bring in? He brings home, this is net income, so he brings home about$3 ,500 a month. Okay, and how much do you guys need? How much is your house payment? So we have two. We have one mortgage, which is$800. That's not escrowed. And then we have a second mortgage, which is$880.

1:28:51and so that's what you guys are short you're short 1600 bucks a month basically is what you're needing him to bring in for three months no we have other expenses so we have an auto loan we have student loans okay so how much extra does he need to bring in a month for you guys to keep your situation i would say comfortably it would be great if he could bring in an extra um 3 000 because groceries, household expenses, and then upcoming with daycare. Okay.

1:29:26All right.

1:29:29Dave Ramsey:How much is the car payment? Car payment is$350. Okay. All right. Yes, he should pick up a part-time job, and you should keep your home. And you're self-employed. You don't, when we're self-employed, we don't get the same benefits as employees. Right. And so there's no reason for you to be off from work for 90 days. Oh, man. You're self-employed. Nope. I'm sorry. You do strategic planning and consulting. I, no, I disagree with that. You, you push a baby out and try to be somewhat normal 60 days later. So, nope. This is what y 'all, this is what y 'all signed up for. Nope. Husband, get to work.

1:30:15Nope. he doesn't want to get a part-time job well that's the problem that's the problem to me that's the problem go get a job dude go get a job don't make your wife after you've been through what you've been through and you're you should have seen me 60 days after a bit no

1:30:37Dave Ramsey:nope yeah well it's matter it's a difference between whether you have to to keep your house or not you know I guess so it just sucks you just decide you know you you both signed up for this you're self-employed and you you plan to have a child and you have no money and instead and instead of keeping the space heaters you decided you had to have heat and air now you're going to sell the heat and air with the house I guess so you know you've made some choices here that painted yourself in the corner and you're going to get pain on your feet that's fair I hear that I hear you're going to get pain on your feet so you're going to decide we have to choose our pain Pain is coming.

1:31:11Dave Ramsey:Okay? And the pain I would choose if I was in your all shoes is I'm with Rachel. He needs to go get six jobs and take care of his family and do all that if he can. Yeah, but if you could do something a little bit. And if you can do a little bit of work from home, you're gradually reentering faster than the 90-day swing because you're not an employee. You took on running a business. And so you don't have a choice. You get to go back to work. That's it. If you want to keep the house, really both of you should be willing to do some of this. Or make the decision to sell the house. But I don't agree with him that he just gets to bail and do nothing.

1:31:52Dave Ramsey:I'm with Rachel on that. That's, you know. That's crazy. No, he needs to step up. But I also think both of you made this mess. And so the thing I want to take away from this more than this particular situation is fixing how we got here, which is, you know, no savings, lots of debt. Owning a home. Sell a car. I'd sell a car before I'd sell a house. 100%. But it doesn't fix the problem. If you told me$1 ,200, that car would have been gone about a minute and a half ago. Yeah. But it's not. It's$350, so it doesn't fix the problem mathematically to get rid of it. Um, but yeah, I think there's going to be pain.

1:32:35Dave Ramsey:Now the two of you look at it because of where we are. Now we have to decide what the name of our pain is. Yeah. And gosh, it would be, so the house, the house conversations always, we're getting more and more of these calls and the housing market, people are frustrated. They're sometimes frustrated with our advice because we're very conservative on the numbers and what you can buy. But this is why, like if your house payment and. $1 ,600. bucks and everything yeah it gets true it's not that bad yeah it's not it's just they just had no money but when you buy a home and you're a homeowner you're stuck in this you're stuck and to get rid of that it's expensive to have to move out and then go back and re-enter into the housing market yeah so what i would say what i would say to you and your husband then is we love you and we want you to win 10 years from today you'll be glad if he takes extra jobs and you take on work as you are able reasonably after the baby snapped okay got three kids i was like well i know but um you know i again when you're self-employed there's a lot of times i hear i've come to work sick for years and you know i don't have a choice you know i mean i don't have a choice if you if I blow out my knee I'm you know I'm putting the cast I come to work I don't have a choice do you understand that's very different than growing a human being I know I'm not I'm not Dave I'm not debating I had I was sneezing a lot but I came to work such a such a hero

1:34:12Dave Ramsey:oh brother anyway no I'm telling you listen the deal is this if you have a major medical event it's not unusual for people that are self-employed to be back at work a lot faster than an employee would be okay that's a fair statement that's a fair that's all i'm saying i know so listen it's not sneezing but all jave's like that was cute that was good i had an earache one time i came to work one time my nose was running i'm an owner i'm an owner and i came well i have yeah i'll tell you you know it's the other thing is okay let's just let's if we're going to continue you the fun. You know who comes to work in Tennessee when it's snowing?

1:34:52Dave Ramsey:The people that own the business, not the employees. Not many of them. And that own trucks. Only the hardy of hardy employees show up. That own trucks come in. Well, that's it. Listen, the Tesla doesn't have four wheel drive. I ain't going to get on a piece of ice in Tennessee. I wouldn't get on anything with that Tesla. You wouldn't even get in the Tesla.

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1:36:26Dave Ramsey:Rebecca is in Tampa. Hi, Rebecca. How are you? I am great. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? Absolutely. So thank you for what you do. I am a single Christian mother to teenage boys. love them with all my heart. I have been blessed financially by God. I've been going through my healing journey as a Christian and money is this step of the sanctification process I'm currently going through. My business, it's in an engineering field. There was a tragedy in Florida which allowed my business to earn almost a million dollars, but then the state mandate stopped and now my income is back to around$200 ,000 to$250 ,000.

1:37:13In my excitement, I paid off everything, paid off a car, student loans, all my credit cards, tithed about$50 ,000 to my church, basically just spent it like it was going out of style.

1:37:27Dave Ramsey:You didn't spend it. You paid off debt. I did, and then I incurred more debt than I could imagine. I said, you know what, I need a stable home for my kids. So I went from renting to purchasing a home. When I bought the house, I bought an older house because they said, we'll just tie in a construction mortgage or a construction loan with that, which they did not do. So I applied for one, got denied, applied for another, got approved. And I later got approved for the other one. So bought a house for$5.50, put a percentage down, got two construction loans, and then I bought a truck because my son does motocross.

1:38:11It's just been a lot. I got to the point where I was physically ill with how much I was spending. And I'm bringing in about 15 to 20 ,000 a month, but my bills are 11 ,000 without including gas, food, and everything else. Okay. So I'm making myself sick with how God has blessed me that I've been brought to tears, humbled. So when it comes to that humbling process, He blessed you with the income. He blessed you with the income.

1:38:40Dave Ramsey:He didn't bless you with the house or the truck. Absolutely. Because the house and the truck don't have, the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. And so the money didn't bring the sorrow. The income was wonderful, but the purchases did bring sorrow because of the debt or the lost money or whatever. So is the truck paid for? I had an Escalade that I paid off. It was worth$22 ,000, so of course I went and bought a$62 ,000 pickup truck with my son doing motocross. I don't care about your son's motocross anymore. I'm already tired of it. Yeah. Okay. It's$62 ,000 to ride a bicycle. Give me a break.

1:39:23Dave Ramsey:All right, so no, we're going to sell the truck. What do you owe on the truck? I owe about$31 ,000. Great. Get rid of it. You hate it. And he wasn't doing motocross with that pickup before, if he was to go back to doing it the way he was doing it before you had the pickup. It didn't bring you joy. It didn't bring you joy. Yeah. Okay. So what about the house? Are we going to sell it? No, I just bought it. I put$70 ,000 into renovation, so I have the house. How much is your payment a month? Yeah, I love the house. So my mortgage is$4 ,068, but when I was bringing in$20 ,000, I'm like, well, that's peanuts.

1:40:10But the construction loans is what got me. So I have one for$1 ,600 and another one for$2 ,400. On top of the mortgage? Correct. So it's$9 ,000 going to this house.

1:40:24Dave Ramsey:Is the construction completed? Yes. Okay. If you refinance the house and got a new mortgage that took out your first mortgage and the two construction loans, could you afford the payment? Without a doubt. Because I bring in about$20 ,000. It's just$11 ,000 and$12 ,000. Then refinance the mortgage. Then refinance the house. Okay. Refinance the house and sell the truck. Now we've got a mortgage we can afford and we don't have a truck payment. because the other thing about that truck is every time you look at it, you feel dumb. I bought stuff when I did something dumb, and the thing just kept reminding me I did something dumb.

1:41:00Dave Ramsey:And you're not dumb. You make a lot of money. You're smart. But you did a couple dumb things. That's okay. We've all done dumb things. I got a Ph.D. in DUMB. It's been a lot. I've made$150 to$200 a year, and my lights have always been turned out in my home. even when my home was$1 ,500 a month. How? I've told my kids are amazing. I said, guys, we need to change because their dad's a multimillionaire. He's retired at 48, but he doesn't do anything for the kids or with the kids. Are you all married? No, she said she's single. Oh, you're single. I'm sorry. We're divorced. Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

1:41:40Dave Ramsey:Well, that's him. I love doing things with them because I feel like. Yeah, but you can't do that. You can't do that and put it in the foolish column. Yeah. Yeah. Because the things you outlined for us, the things that you did that you were ashamed of, that were bothering you, that you were regretting, right? And so let's just undo those things or restructure them to where they work in your world, and your peace comes back, and then we clean up the debt. So would you be debt-free if the truck was gone and you refinanced the house, except for the house? yeah i have no credit card no student loan i have nothing else because you cleaned all that up in that first blush yeah and you need to be and do a monthly budget you need some control it feels a little bit um just from yes just talking to you budgets for i do reserve studies for high right that's literally what i do i do budgets for other people and it makes me barf that i keep but with BMX and motocross, it's so hard because I've spent thousands every month traveling, staying in hotels for racing.

1:42:45So I go, how do I do a budget? And I don't know what my expenses are. The bike breaks. He needs clip shoes. That's$1 ,000. Okay. I've made that an excuse because I could still budget without that. I could leave. Well, you need to figure out, on average, here's how much I spend on my son's motocross, right?

1:43:04Dave Ramsey:And can I afford it? What you just described didn't sound like you could afford it. Well, I believe I could if I just stopped getting Chipotle and DoorDash every week. Well, okay. Well, maybe. I don't think that's the thing. I kind of think this motocross thing's out of control. Your kid may need to hear the word no. Yeah, no is probably a word he needs to be introduced to. And don't feel guilty about that, Rebecca. By the way, he's not going to make a living at 48 years old doing motocross. Yeah, but as, and we hear this with a lot of divorce situations, that there is this overcompensating. Disney mom.

1:43:37Of it. And I get why. You want your kids to have great experiences and a great, all of it.

1:43:42Dave Ramsey:But you can't go broke doing it. Yeah. And there is a limit. You're not in Congress. So I would figure out how much on average are you spending a month on motocross? Make that a line item. Or set a budget up and say, we're not spending more than that. Yeah, exactly. Well, just in that, but then you got to, you know what I mean? Like you, that's the great thing about a budget is you get to put your money where you value. So Rebecca, if you really do value this for your son and out to eat, it has not much in it in order to make that happen. You get to decide that, Rebecca. You're an adult. That's what the budget is.

1:44:10You get to make that decision on where you want your money to go, but it has to be purposeful or you're going to feel out of control constantly and always asking, can I do this? Can I do that? The budget is permission to spend. It's where your values are. And so, yeah, I think that's going to be a big change for you in a really positive direction once you sell this truck.

1:44:31Dave Ramsey:I'm 100 % sure you need to spend less on motocross. And I'm 100 % sure that you need to put a limit on it. Because right now you spend whatever comes up and never ask a question. And then look back later and go, oh, those clip-ons were$1 ,000. No, no. Couldn't afford it this month. And depending on the age of the kid, maybe he gets a job and pays for half of it too. Maybe he needs to win a race and get some prize money. I don't know. I don't know how that world works. I don't know. Hey, folks, changing gears here for a second. George and I will be doing the Investing Essentials virtual event next Tuesday and Wednesday.

1:45:08Dave Ramsey:Anyone can become a millionaire. It's not that complicated. We've shown a whole lot of millions of people how to do it. This is the only place. We've only done this a couple times. I think the third time we've done one of these. It's the only place I unpack my playbook for investing and wealth planning, and we'll cover the basics of investing from mutual funds all the way into real estate. And even some of the nerdy stuff as well. New content on reducing taxes, on wealth, on wills, and so forth. Tuesday, Wednesday, next week, join us from the comfort of your own home. Tickets start at$199. You can get them at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

1:45:43Dave Ramsey:That's September 1st and 2nd.

1:46:12Dave Ramsey:Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke, not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing. You stop worrying. You stop stressing. Our EveryDollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change.

1:46:48Dave Ramsey:It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today. Go download it in the App Store or Google Play.

1:47:08Dave Ramsey:In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions is the Debt Free Stage. On the Debt Free Stage, Colton and Allie join us, which means they're debt free. congratulations you two how are you good thank you we're doing good excellent where do you guys live uh we're from hillman michigan which is near what alpena michigan which is near what northern northeast michigan ah okay thank you glove thank you i just i had to get i get something going way to go well thank you for coming all the way to tennessee where did you guys uh how much debt have you paid off paid off 140 000 wow how long did that take uh 22 months good for you and your range of income during that two years?

1:47:47I'm around$150 ,000 to$170 ,000.

1:47:50Dave Ramsey:Wow. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an electrician. And I work in mergers and acquisitions. Ah, very good. And you're killing it. Way to go, y 'all. What kind of debt was your$140 ,000? It was our mortgage. You paid off your house! You guys are so weird! How old are you two? I'm 24. I'm 23. but you can't buy a house in america today we have an affordability crisis but you two not only bought one at 24 and 20 24 and 22 23 23 and you paid off what's the house worth about 250 250 000 good oh it's a good looking house too i love your planters thank you love the hanging planters that's a great starter house well done y 'all so how long y 'all You've been married?

1:48:39Dave Ramsey:About three years. Okay. Just over three years. So a little bit into the marriage, like a year into the marriage, you went, were we by the house at that point? Yeah. And then you went, we're tearing into this thing. We're going to knock it out. Yeah, we were on the same page basically right when we got married. Okay. So how did all this Ramsey stuff infect you guys? I actually basically grew up with it and then kind of infected her once we started to hang out and get married. There's no vaccine. Did you guys have any student loan debt or anything going into the marriage? Like you guys went in debt free?

1:49:11We were actually high school sweethearts. So we actually started dating when we were 14. And he showed me the Dave Ramsey podcast. We actually worked at a berry farm together in the summers. And so we'd actually listen to the podcast while we're picking strawberries and raspberries. Okay. To get through school? Did you guys do school? So, yeah. So we paid our way through school. We were both on the same page, no student loans. We paid through our wedding, so we didn't want to have any debt going into the marriage.

1:49:40Dave Ramsey:You guys are like unicorns. You're amazing. So what's your degree in? Financial planning. Of course. And I just had a certificate, electrical certificate. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Did your apprenticeship and all that. And you're both killing it. Way to go. And what did you pay for the house? I was$225. $225. okay wow amazing you guys and within three years right two years two years you said two years yeah two years and okay so what did life look like because you guys are newlyweds what did you do lifestyle wise to pay off 140 ,000 in 22 months to pay this off was it just like we're gonna cut everything and go intense or do you feel like you kind of did what you wanted still and threw extra like how did you do it yeah we we didn't feel like I mean we were still doing what we wanted to do We still went on multiple vacations.

1:50:30We actually did some house renovations. Mostly what we did is we lived on his income, and then anything I made, we just threw at the house. So we just basically lived on one income, and yeah, threw my income at the house. And did it.

1:50:41Dave Ramsey:I just figured it out. So you know these guys on TikTok that say Dave Ramsey bought his first house for a box of strawberries. That's what they did. That's what they did. They picked berries. That's how they did it. For college. That was the Dave Ramsey plan. That's it. For a bucket of strawberries. Oh, my gosh, you guys. Amazing. Wow. What do your parents say? They got to be dancing. Yeah, I think they're proud. Yeah. They're pretty sure you're not going to be in their basement. No, no. They didn't think we were too crazy, so that was good. Well, they both taught you to work. They taught you to live like this.

1:51:14Dave Ramsey:Both of you, you know, you had – that's hard work. Yeah. I mean, you're – Yeah, I'm glad we're not doing it now. Yeah. Yeah, you know, if you do that, you're pretty sure you want to get an education. You're pretty sure you want to get a trade, right? Yeah, yeah. So you don't end up there for life. How much was your mortgage every month? It was$12.36. Okay. That's amazing. I mean, what's crazy is if you, not that you have to live in this house forever, right? You guys can upgrade eventually if you want. But if you just invested your house payment at your age of 26 all the way to 67, you'd have$16.5 million just investing your house payment from here on out.

1:51:49Yep. That's insane, y 'all. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. That's crazy. I have a financial calculator, so I do a lot of the financial numbers. She knows. I know, we have this new fancy studio phone. I was like, well, I'm going to plug in those numbers. Yeah, I'm definitely the nerd. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so does it feel different? I mean, you guys didn't have it for too long, but how does it feel? It feels good. It feels awesome. It feels free. We don't have, it literally just felt like a deep breath. We can breathe. If anything happens, if I were to lose my job, if he were to lose his job, we're okay.

1:52:22Dave Ramsey:And on top of that, you're going to be really, really, really okay. yeah that's right and generous yes and generous that's right absolutely so what do you tell the young people listening because we have a lot of younger listeners now um a lot of gen z what would you tell them if they're sitting there at 24 25 and they want to be you all eventually one day i would say i know a lot of people say to be on the same page before you get married i mean that's yeah definitely just be on the same page as each other yeah and it's possible i think a lot of times it's like we get so caught up in this victim mentality almost where it's like yeah i mean expenses there's i mean groceries are expensive gas is expensive like we're feeling we're feeling it too but you don't have to let that be everything like you can like yeah whatever you want your reality to be you can go and fight for it 100 and there's there's power too like when you get married and you guys are on the same page working for the same goals and you're on the same track there's there's a power in that that's a huge power yeah like 170 000 worth of boom yeah that's pretty stinking incredible that's amazing so i mean you guys you you were not in debt or not been married long enough to really have felt that just the grotesque weight uh it was kind of a a brush with it so instead of that feeling the relief from that i'm guessing you just really feel accomplished yeah like you really uh You really realize how sharp you are and how we really did this.

1:53:52Dave Ramsey:And I'm just going to kind of walk around with my shoulders thrown back a little bit and be proud. You should. I'm proud of you. And I know your parents are proud of you. And you're an example where all we hear is that you can't buy a house. You can't buy a house. You can't buy a house. And not only did you buy a house, but at 23 freaking years old, you paid it off. So, I mean, shut up. Hold my beer, right? Oh, my gosh. When we actually bought the house, our goal was to pay it off in hopefully less than five years. And it just kept kind of snowballing. And then we're like, oh, maybe three years.

1:54:25And then actually, it was kind of addicting. Yeah, it was addicting to see the number go down.

1:54:31Dave Ramsey:It's gamified. That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. That's hilarious. Well, Coleman, now that y 'all are great. You guys are powerful. I'm so proud of you. Well done. You're going to have so stinking much money. It's going to be ridiculous. And you're going to be able to be generous and change your family tree. and then send your grandkids to pick strawberries later. Yeah. That's good. That'll be a good thing. Hopefully for fun and not for work. That's right. That's right. That's right. I don't know. As a hobby. I don't know. It was good money. It's not the end of the world for three months.

1:54:58Dave Ramsey:You can do a lot of stuff for three months. Yeah. You can pull a lot of things together. Man, I'm so proud of y 'all. Very cool. Thank you. Your work ethic, your character, everything. Thank you. Stellar. Stellar. Wow. Wow. Wow. Anytime someone wants to tell me that Gen Z is a bunch of losers, I'll tell them I have seen otherwise. Colton and Allie. I have seen the Colton Allies of the world. They come in here and they stand on this stage. They work on our team, and they're absolutely incredible. We love Gen Z. Not all of them, but we love them. We love everybody. We love the good ones. Yeah, the good ones are there.

1:55:31Dave Ramsey:That's amazing. All right, Colton and Allie from Michigan, 23 and 24 years old. $140 ,000 paid off, mortgage and everything in 22 months, making$150 ,000 to$170 ,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

1:56:01Yeah!

1:56:06Dave Ramsey:Okay, moms and dads. I have a goal for you. create another Colton and Allie for us. Some of you that are raising these little characters, turn them into Colton and Allie. They can pick strawberries and pay off their house by the time they're 23. Well, and all you parents with little kids on the debt-free journey, your kids are going to be that. That's what they're going to be. That's what they're going to be. He grew up with this stuff. He grew up with it.

1:56:51We'll see you next time.

1:57:05Dave Ramsey:All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:57:43Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 3.15, But in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. John Wooden said, if you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over? Folks, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. We can't. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to the website. Use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained only on Ramsey answers and Ramsey principles.

1:58:22Dave Ramsey:Three years of this show, all the books we've written, all the articles we've written, 2 ,000 plus over the years, all dumped into the Ask Ramsey app, and it gives you an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Wesley is with us in Montgomery, Alabama. Hi, Wesley. How are you? I'm doing great, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right, so I'm 21 years old. Me and my girlfriend have been dating for some time now, and I am thinking about getting engaged.

1:59:01She goes to Auburn. She has about five years left in school. She's in pharmacy school, and I close on my house next Friday. And so I'm just trying to decide if it would be wiser to wait and get engaged to her later on in school, maybe like the year before she gets done with everything, or go ahead and do it next year because next year will be her senior year. But anyways, she has like four years post-grad that she has to do.

1:59:33Dave Ramsey:Are you going to be in the house as near where she's going to do her post-grad work, I assume? So it's about 45 minutes from it. Okay. And so if you were married while she's doing post-grad work, she's going to do a 45-minute commute? Yeah, so that's what she has said that she's totally fine with that. And she said that even if, like, it wasn't, like, if we weren't engaged or if we weren't married by then, she would live with her parents and make that drive, and it's also 45 minutes. Okay, so you've graduated? Okay, so I never went to college. I'm a real estate agent and a firefighter. So I work 24-48, and then I do real estate full-time, I guess.

2:00:30Dave Ramsey:What do you make? So this year I'll do six figures. I'm on track for six figures. That's both of them combined. Is that like$100 ,000, Wesley? Or when you say six figures, is that$150 ,000? What does that mean? $100 ,000. Right at$100 ,000. Okay, perfect. Okay. And what do you make as a firefighter? How much of that's the firefighter? So firefighter salary, I take home without any overtime or anything around$63 ,000. Okay, who's paying for her postgraduate work? So her grandparents would pay for that. Regardless of if you're married? correct yes sir okay all right well i wouldn't i wouldn't base a marriage decision on a 45 minute commute so i would say if you love her and she's the one and you guys want to get married do it i mean get married and you know so many stories i still had some school left when winston and i got married and it was for a short amount of time but i think there is something dad, my dad may roll his eyes at this, but there is something kind of, I think, sweet when you start off and you guys are just hustling, you know, like you'll look back on these years and be like, these were the simplest times, you know, she was in school.

2:01:52Dave Ramsey:I'm going to roll my eyes at that. That's good. I like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. I know. Sometimes it's like, oh, my God, my life is so much better when you're doing well financially. But yeah, so there's, I don't know, something about that that's, I think, great. And again, it's all if you guys feel like you're in a good spot relationally and spiritually and all of it. I mean, I was I got married super young. So I'm if she's the one, I'm definitely not against it. And I think she can make that 45 minute commute. And I think that's fine. Yeah. She's going to be making a 45 commute anyway because she's with her parents is 45.

2:02:26Yeah. But I wouldn't. And I wouldn't.

2:02:27Dave Ramsey:But I wouldn't wait five years to get married. No. And I wouldn't make. Yeah. That's the thing. That's the thing for me is, you know, we encouraged our kids to get out of school before they got married. Rachel obviously chose to do that. She came in and said, Dad, you always said this, but we really want to get married in December and I'll graduate in May. And we really, really, really, really want to get married. And I'm like, okay, that's cool. So we worked it out. I still can't believe y 'all let us get married that young. I still laugh all the time. I mean, we liked Winston a lot. And so it was that simple.

2:03:00Dave Ramsey:And he's a stud. So, you know, that's kind of the thing. And so if you two have your act together, as Rachel's point, then it won't interfere with her completing school. And it won't. And, you know, you're not holding each other back. There's no desperation in this. And I wouldn't sit around and wait five years to get married. That would drive me nuts. I mean, we just had a couple on the stage. She's 23. They've been married two, three years. They got married young and paid off their house and, you know, made some big adult strides. So just because you're young doesn't mean that it can't be done.

2:03:35Dave Ramsey:But you need to do it from a healthy spot. Both of you being in a healthy spot. Yes. And it sounds like you are. I didn't hear anything in this discussion that's like neediness on her part or your part or something like that. Right, right. Your only question was timing, and it's what I heard. Yep. Anyway, so if I were in your shoes, I would be engaged and be married as soon as possible within reason. So I would not wait two years and three years and four years and that kind of stuff. I didn't, and I don't tell people to do that. All right. Sarah is in Baton Rouge. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Good.

2:04:12Thanks for taking my call.

2:04:13Dave Ramsey:Sure. What's up? I attended Financial Peace University, and I try to follow the baby step principles. I'm debt-free except for my mortgage, and I'll pay that off next year. Way to go. I am single. Yeah, I'm single. For the first time in my life, I'm self-employed. I was contributing 15 % to a Roth 401k when I was employed. I want to continue to stay at 15 % for retirement, but I don't know if I should deduct the self-employment tax for my gross income first and then figure the 15 % or do I just look at the gross income and take 15 % of that? We teach people to save 15 % of their gross at baby step four, and that's where you are.

2:04:55Dave Ramsey:So 15 % of your gross. It's the same thing if you're a W-2 employee. Before taxes are taken out, we figure 15 % of that gross. It's the same thing. Okay. And you've just got, with self-employment tax, you've got, when you're a W-2, you've got half of that. You pay 7.62 plus your 7.62%, and you've got the whole 13%. So Medicare and Medicare and everything. So, yeah. So it's 50. It ends up being 15 percent plus your income tax. So that's what the government does to us. So there's a lot coming out. But but that's you know, the only difference in you and a W-2 is you've got an extra seven percent coming out because, I mean, Washington's here to help the small business person.

2:05:39Dave Ramsey:So they double tax them. So that's how that works. But, you know, yeah. So, yeah. Yes. Good job, Sarah, though. Well done. Way to go. Way to go. You're killing it, kiddo. Very well done. Evan is in Corpus Christi. Hi, Evan. How are you? Hey, Dave and Rachel. I'm honored to talk to you all today. You too. A little short on time. Go straight to your question. All right. I'm looking for permission to spend some money on a truck. Just sold our house, and my wife and I have never been sitting on this much cash before. We've been in a little bit of a mess, and so we're crawling out of it, and I think that's kind of...

2:06:17How much debt do you have? I'm having pause and pulling the trigger. How much debt do you have?

2:06:22Dave Ramsey:No debt. No debt. What's your net worth? We have$210 ,000 in retirement. We're both 29 years old, and we're sitting on about$150 ,000 in cash. Okay. And how much of a truck are you talking about buying? I'm just struggling to pull the trigger somewhere$20 ,000 to$30 ,000. I make$120 ,000. Okay. What's the other car worth? she got an expedition probably about 22 okay all right yeah we if you've listened to the show you know that we tell people not to buy cars and things with motors and wheels totaling more than half your annual income it doesn't sound like it is and you're paying cash and so that's the two things we tell people to do 20 to 30 obviously you're using part of your down payment money towards the house when you do that you're trading it off for a truck but pay cash for it and make sure it's in that 20-25 range and you should be okay.

2:07:19Dave Ramsey:That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.