Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions

24:40We have some education savings for about$50 ,000 for the kids right now. And then just retirement fund, we have maybe a couple hundred thousand. But other than that, not really. Do you have anything in cash? Like if you had an emergency today, how would you pay for it? I already did baby step one, so we probably have about$5 ,000 in cash. Okay. But your next paycheck is going to be sizable. You're going to make like, what,$25 ,000 on the next check? uh yeah like per month uh my husband and i are yeah we bring home around 25 grand a month okay how much of that could you throw into a savings account next month for example uh if i wasn't putting it towards the heloc then probably seven grand so you guys are spending close to 20 grand a month um i'd say our spending kids are in private school um are the interest on the heloc is about$1 ,800.

25:34So yeah, like I'd say, we spend around$12 ,000 a month on, yeah. The private school for all three kids? Yes. Man, that's a real, your burn rate is high here. You've got a lot of expenses going on. It's really high, yeah. I'm guessing we're not going to put them in public school to clean up this mess. Well, they're almost out, so into like to middle school. So that's going to change and get better over the next couple of years. I just, I didn't want to feel like I was rolling the HELOC into the mortgage and kicking the can down the road and whether I should, you know, roll some of it in and then keep some of it and attack that really fast.

26:15I'm not sure. I kind of like them broken up just for, I mean, is the HELOC going to have a variable rate here? I was going to ask the same thing. It's currently variable, but again, in June, we signed the next five-year mortgage. So it would lock in at whatever the interest rate is. God bless the strangeness of Canada. Every five years we reset the mortgage rates. What's going to be the new mortgage rate when you renew in June? Because it's 3.6 now. What's it going to go to? It'd probably go down, so between 2.9 and 3.2. Interesting. So have you done the math? If you did that, what percentage of your income would this mortgage be?

26:51So that would move us from the 25 % to about 29 % to 30 % of house expenses. On a 30-year, or are you doing a 15-year? We haven't discovered that yet. My call is tomorrow with the bank. Okay. My guess is, well, they don't do the 30 and 15. You have like a five-year, and it rolls every year. No, you still do like a 15 or 20-year, but every five years you revisit it, and you get to redo it. Okay. How often does the rate on the HELOC variate? It's variable. So it was high over the last couple years, but dropping now. So it's every month that the interest comes out. But then just depending on what the Bank of Canada does, the interest rate goes up and down.

27:32Okay. If there was a world where you locked this in at 2.9 and it was 25 % of your take-home pay and it kind of fit those same parameters, it wouldn't bother me. I don't mind it being separate, though, for the idea of you really getting after it. I'm afraid that if you roll it in, you won't get after it the way you need to and you'll kick the can down the road. Okay. Okay. So there's maybe a point in which some of it we roll in as long as we keep that 25 % into the home from our income? Well, the rule of thumb here is you don't want your mortgage to be any more than 25 % of your take-home pay.

28:13So after taxes, you don't have to think about, you know, insurance and investing and all that jazz. I'm just talking about after taxes. You don't want it to be more than 25 % with all in, with HOA fees, insurance, all of that. Because once you get above that, it can be too much of your world. So that's kind of what I was looking at. At 4.5 on$400 ,000, yeah, I wouldn't want to see that. I wouldn't want that on a variable rate, let me just say. I just feel like I'm less emotionally attached to interest rates. I could give a rip at this point. I just want to see you guys plow through these debts.

28:45And so personally, I would keep the HELOC separate and make an aggressive goal to pay this off in, let's say, three years. It's$133 ,000 a year. That's$11 ,000 a month. Come hell or high water, we're going to throw$11 ,000 a month at the HELOC. Is that something you guys could do? Yeah, I think we could. I just needed to know. I've heard that last week it was like if it's more than half this, you roll it in. And I just wasn't sure if there was a difference. It's not about rolling it in. It's about where you're attacking it. Yeah, the timing of it. And so for you guys, since you don't have a consumer debt, you're just looking at these two debts going, what do I do with these?

29:19I would just plow through. If you can do more than 11 grand a month, be my guest. I'm just throwing a random goal out there. You and your husband should sit down tonight and go, we got to clean this up. And to that end, I might delay some of the kids stuff. Like we got time to catch up on that. Right now we've got this thing eating our lunch with these giant mortgages and HELOCs. So I would work to knock that out and then knock the mortgage out. Because now you know, if we can do 403 years, well, 750, we could probably knock that out in less than six years. Okay. So think about that. That's great.

29:50In nine years, you've got the kids off to college, right? Yep. And you have no mortgage, no HELOC. So that's the kind of future I want you guys to start envisioning and then reverse engineer it to go, okay, what do we got to do today, this month, to get there? Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call. That's a good question. Love hearing from our Canadian listeners. Just to know that Canada has its own problems. You know, people are making crazy decisions all over the world. All over the world. But America goes first. We're like, you know what? We're going to show you the way with the HELOC to do all the renovations and go into all the consumer debt.

30:27But the good news is they have an amazing income. They do. It's hard to feel bad when you're making half a million, even after taxes,$300 ,000, quite the shovel. Yeah. But you can see you just, you know, make decisions with bigger zeros on the end. Exactly. It's very relative in that way. But yeah, this is. Yeah. I'm rooting for more money, more problems. Yeah. But here's the thing. You got to just, you know, baby steps one thing at a time. And also, what can we do to decrease our lifestyle and expenses? Because even with twenty five grand, you can see how quickly can disappear. Yeah. When you got, you know, the cleaners, the private school, this, that, the other, the HELOC, the mortgage.

31:06it just eats away at even the highest incomes. And so you got to get control, live on less than you make. And if you get a raise, ignore it and just invest the difference, give more, save more. That's the key to becoming truly wealthy. And I think Carol and her husband will get there in no time.

31:41Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance.

32:21Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

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33:33Chase is in Knoxville up next. Chase, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you? How can we help today? Very good. Much better than I deserve. First off, thanks to y 'all's program. So I got a two-parter. First part is I've been in Zelle Intense for a while. We're actually debt-free, home, cars, everything. Wow. Way to go. That's awesome. I'm a little tired at this point because I've been working two to three jobs and just kind of figuring out when to put pause on, you know, extra income and just kind of relax for a little while. Now. Well, yeah, it's just I guess the scary part because we're single income right now.

34:14So part of me is just like keep going. But you're in baby step seven. You have no mortgage payment, right? Correct. But I mean, we do want to move from where we're at now. That's I guess that's the quick answer of now is the time to stop that. How long did it take you to accomplish this? How long have you been in this grind? Yeah, it was kind of on and off for two years because of the child and, you know, just some complications around birth and stuff. So that's that's why mama hasn't went back to work. So. OK, that's fine. But yeah, it's been. uh, I guess on me for almost two years at this point.

34:48So, um, so like I said, just kind of wanting to hit pause on some of those. And that leads me into second part. I've got a small business on the side, um, that I have some employees that I don't know how to, uh, coach cause I do a little financial coaching and they seem to be misbehaving with all the money that I pay them, even though I gave them the position to kind of help them get out of debt. Um, personally personally misbehaving with the money or like as a part of the company misbehaving with no personally misbehaving just buying vehicles they don't need buying uh recreational vehicles and these are just how'd you find these people uh family wait they're actual akin to you yes yes like cousins uncles aunts who are we talking parents you hired your parents for your small business and they're going out and taking on debt and you're like well that's that wasn't the intended goal i gave them the job so you gave them the job even though they really weren't qualified to help them out financially quote unquote no they're they're very qualified for the business um however it's just the um they're adding small uh personal loans at this point to to try to justify moving payments around but other than that it's how many people is this it's your parents is it anybody else no it's it's just a business that i had started it became overwhelming for me like I said with the the new more no no I'm talking about the the part you said about okay it's two there's two things we're talking about you hired your parents to work in the business you said they're qualified that's all good but over here you found out that they're spending their money in a way that you don't like correct that has nothing to do with the business that's just their personal life but you're saying hey I know that's not very wise I'd like to be able to help them out right you feel like you're enabling them why do I do how do I go about it of like grace of like, I'm saying either I shut the business down and just walk away from it or just keep it open and kind of guide them a little bit.

36:51I don't think differently. I don't think one, I mean, I, this is my perspective. I don't think that one has to do with another. You're not enabling them because they're doing a job and they're getting paid for the job, right? It's not like they're, you're not just giving them money because they asked for money. they're working and you're paying them wages correct correct so that's okay now you're talking about shutting down your business what's that about because don't tell me that you're shutting down your business because your parents don't know how to spend their paycheck that's a that feels odd it's too layered it's it's now that I guess technically we're at baby step seven and I'm so tired from the last two to three years here okay that it's it's kind of a headache and And it's kind of, it's not that much of my income to kind of just close that down.

37:38It's not like the side business blew up and you're like, I could replace my full-time job. You're just like, I'm done with this side. It was a fun side hustle while I got out of debt. I'm done with it. What does it bring in? About$1 ,100 a month. Oh, okay. Okay. How are you even paying your parents from that? It's just, it's kind of subcontracted out to them. But it's not like they're making$4 ,000 a month from this. They're not like paying the bills. No, no. Is it a side hustle for them too? Yeah. Okay. Then just shut it down. Yeah. If you were going to like put them on the streets because now they're out of a job, then I'd be like, hey, let's be a little more cautious about this.

38:15But if you had the conversation with them, said, hey, I started this because I was trying to get out of debt. I'm kind of done with it emotionally, physically. I'm tired. So you guys are going to need to, if you want more side hustle money, you're going to find it elsewhere. Yeah. I'm shutting down the shop. And I also think the whole thing of them, the way they're spending their money, if they're open to maybe you telling them a little bit about, you know, Ramsey and how you figured out how to manage your money. I think that's fine. But honestly, I kind of feel like right now, that's the least of things you need to be worried about.

38:43It sounds like you have a lot going on at home with your wife and this baby. And when you called, that seemed to be the thing that was getting your goat. And I think your parents is just kind of this nuisance that you're observing over here. And I think you just need to kind of swap that away for now. Okay. Because the truth is you can't control what they do with their money. Right. And unless they invite you into their life to coach them on it, then it's a moot point. It's going to just cause resentment. I think that's the part that gets me. I do kind of coach on the side, just kind of freelance, whatever you want to call it.

39:19Have you offered that to them? Say, hey, I do coaching on the side. I know I'm your son and it's awkward, but I'd be happy to look at your numbers. you know it gets very sticky they don't want you to cut it loose yeah yeah and that's where that's where i was looking for advice of just like when somebody doesn't want it do i just need to walk away yes watch the train wreck happen yeah no walk away because for people like when they're when the student's ready the teacher appears and they're not ready so one day they might be and you might be the teacher and one day they might be ready and it's somebody else maybe from their church or a friend of theirs so you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink right all right all you can do is live your life and hopefully do it in a way that makes them go man what's chase doing over there i'm interested tell me more but man parents is that's one of the hardest ones to tackle yeah because like they remember changing your diaper yesterday they're not looking for financial advice from you exactly oh but way to go chase baby step seven that's impressive you said one of my favorite lines you said it's a moot point moot and it always makes We think of friends when he says it's a moose point, a moo point, a cow's opinion.

40:26Oh, thank you for that. I needed a win today. You needed that. Brennan is in Houston up next. Brennan, take us home, man. What's going on? How can we help? Hey, how y 'all doing today? Better than we deserve. So I had a question for you. I'm in a position where I'm very blessed to making the money I am. I'm 20. My base income is right around$100 ,000 a year pre-tax, but I am struggling to decide between staying at this job or having the opportunity to go to college for maybe a job that pays a little less, but that gives me more free time. Free time? What does a 20-year-old need free time for? You got all the free time.

41:10Unfortunately, no. You think I would. This job's traveling. But do you have kids and a spouse? I'm just saying this is the freest you're going to be. So what are you doing for work making$100 ,000 at$20 ,000? So it's a traveling job. The simplest way to say it is basically large-scale HVAC. So you go from different sites. We're contracting with Walmart right now, so we'll jump from Walmart chain to Walmart chain and make sure it runs cold for the food storage and whatnot. Got it. Okay. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of hours, but they compensate me well. Do you like it? I have next to no bills at the moment.

41:46Do you like the work? I like the money. Okay. So what do you want to go to college for? How clear are you on that? Relatively clear. Originally, my plan was going to be for college, but life got in the way. And I didn't feel like taking on a bunch of debt to go to college. Good. That was a big problem. I was going for either business administration or construction management. Okay. Now you can cash flow it? Is that what you're saying, that you have the money that you could pay for it now? 50-50. I have the opportunity to go to college for free, but it would have to be in California. Dude, my father, he was in the military, so I would get my tuition covered if I went out there.

42:27And we're going to talk right now about an arrangement where I'd pay a certain amount for rent. Okay. Or not paying at all, whatever. I mean, I don't think you're going to – you're not going to regret going to college debt-free and doing the thing you really want to do and exploring that because you know you're a skilled guy in the trades. And so if you can do it free, I'd go for construction management if that's the field you want to be in. Business administration, I'd want some real clear answers on what's on the other side of that. I think construction management has more upside for you if that's the field you want to be in.

42:55So go for it, dude. Just do it all debt free. You're 20. You can take those kinds of risks now. Just don't go into debt to do it. That's the only parameter here. But explore, explore. Follow your heart, my friend. This is The Ramsey Show.

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44:24Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas up next. Brian, how can we help today? Hey, so I have about$90 ,000 in debt tied up in a truck and a camper since I travel for work.

44:56And I'm always like I'm tired of being broke. I want to get this paid off in the next year. how how do you get into that mentality of like whenever it comes to payday i'm just i don't want to do it but whenever it's time to pay the bill i want to get rid of this how do you get getting the mentality of making it happen to get this done yeah making it happen oh well i mean i think i i think for you right now it's just logic i think you're seeing okay i have debt Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off. Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason, right? But right now it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a real reason why and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle.

45:51And a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life. So if your goal is to get married or if your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden, right? Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet. Okay. Because I've set goals for I want to get the debt paid off in the next year and then buy some land. Why? to be financially free and so I can continue on my other financial goals of buying, buying land, building a house and then. But also I'm asking deeper questions because money, it can't just be for more gain.

46:39Like it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more things, you know, You know, there's got to be like, you got to pinpoint it to something. It's, you know, so when you said, hey, I want to buy land, why is land important to you? If you said, hey, I want to build a house, why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful. Otherwise, it's pretty surface. And a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do.

47:09And it's not really, it's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was. Yeah, you'll get there and go, okay, I did it, but now what? And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. I think you're getting there the way you're talking. What do you make? Make about$110 ,000 after taxes. After taxes, you make$110 ,000. Great income. Okay. So when you say I want to pay this off in 12 months, how are you planning on doing that? So my checks are about$2 ,100 to$2 ,500 depending on overtime and how my hours are. Is that twice a month? No, it's every week. Okay, good. I was like, man, this math is not mathing for me.

47:49Okay. Yeah, that's weekly. That's weekly. And just I did the math and right around$1 ,500 a week get to a point to where I have a, I'm thinking like a$10 ,000 safety net since I am traveling for work. And how much do you have saved now? Nothing. Okay. So you're just paycheck to paycheck spending everything you get. Do they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you? They pay incentives to come out here and then the travel expenses are on me. Okay. What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper? There's$60 ,000 on the truck and$30 ,000 on the camper. Okay. Do you need a$60 ,000 truck to do your job?

48:43I don't. Okay, because that's over half of your take-home pay. It's a lot of truck, and it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you? 20. Okay. A 20-year-old does not need a$60 ,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that? Yeah. A 50-year-old doesn't need a$60 ,000 truck to do a job. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally, and sell this truck and get a new-to-me truck for$15 ,000. Okay. So what is the truck worth if you sold it private party? How much could you get for it? Probably$55 ,000 to$60 ,000. Okay. I haven't really done the blue book on it.

49:24Cool. There's some homework. And if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month. If you're underwater by$5 ,000, could you save$5 ,000 to save your life in the next month? Yeah. Great. So now you can clear the title. Now we still need another truck, right? You still need that? Yeah. So you're going to need to come up with another$10 ,000,$15 ,000 to get a beater truck is what this is going to amount to in the truck world. Yeah. Because you just need to get from A to B, right? Well, it just depends. The camper is taking you.

49:54You're just hauling the truck along with the camper? No. It's a full-behind camper, so I'm hauling the camper. Okay. I need something reliable enough to get across the country if I need to. If the next job is in Nevada to pack my stuff up and... Yeah, but they make reliable trucks that are$20 ,000 instead of$60 ,000, right? You know the truck world. So here's the problem. That$60 ,000 truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country, which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country because the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear, that thing is plummeting in value.

50:33So that's what scares me is you could be underwater$20 ,000 and not know it right now. Yeah. So I would do some homework on that part. And man, if you can get this done in six months instead of 12, wouldn't you want that? Yeah. I'd rather you eat rice and beans for six months instead of a whole year. So I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper. And the way your income is, you could save up and buy something used pretty quickly. And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. Lots of people selling used trucks out there. Yeah, for sure. And so just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you.

51:07Some people, like Jade, it took over seven years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So for you to be able to do this in six months, you're going to blink. You won't even be able to drink yet on your 21st birthday by the time you're debt free. Yeah. Yeah, and just know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is, why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like, you've got all the time in the world. You can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with. You don't have kids. Like there's so many reasons to do this now versus later.

51:40So just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in. Okay. I'm proud of you, man. You're a very successful 20-year-old with a good head on your shoulders. We made some mistakes. The good news, you know, anything that's vehicle related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into$100 ,000 on student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree. Man, I wish you could. Nobody's interested. I would have sold mine off. If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available. And then it's like men in black, they do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well.

52:10Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned. I think that, you know, I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific things they learned in college? Unless you were in like a medical field, like, you know, law, like something like that where you kind of need to know some things. Where the funny bone is located. Couldn't tell you what happened in small group communication theory. Oh, I don't even know what that is. Exactly. There you go. I just, as much as I don't like going into debt for vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, hey, you could sell the truck. That's a great. You could sell the horse.

52:45Yes. Both are assets, technically. You said it, not me.

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54:49Micah is in South Carolina. Welcome to the show, Micah. What's going on? Hey, Jordan and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. How are you guys? We're doing well. What's your question today? So I'm trying to help my mom, and she is in a really tough financial position. I've been following the dirty steps for about four or five years, and I'm doing well going through it, trying to use my experience to help her. And once we kind of got into the details, I'm kind of at a loss because I don't know how to help her. And so I need some additional advice. What kind of help does she need? What's going on? So she makes hardly any income.

55:34She's on Social Security. She's disabled. And she has, for her, a ton of credit card debt. And she can barely make minimums. So long story short, my dad died in 2013 um i grew up on the baby steps with him back when it was just radio uh i hated doing it but i helped dad do the finances and then when he died mom ended up living off of credit cards for the last you know 12 years um her and my brother and my sister all They sold family property. They bought new property, paid for it outright, and then mortgaged houses. I kind of stayed out of it because I see what happens with family and money. I hear it all the time on here.

56:30Smart man. I've seen her struggle, and I've offered to help. My sister lived with her until she got married, so the finances are very intertwined. I've offered to help, and I've offered to help, and I've offered to help. and it's always been turned down by my mom and my sister. I said, look, you know, the whole powder butt syndrome, there's not really a whole lot I can do until they ask for it. And so she is a part of these properties? Yes. So mom owns a majority of the land that's now all new family property. The land itself is paid for, and she's got a mortgage on the property. How much land?

57:10How many acres? uh collectively i think between my brother and my mom and all of it it's like 40 acres okay so how many people are included in this land it's your brother is your mom your sister yes so my sister just got married um and the plan is for her to move back into the house to help take care of mom uh she just had a baby and so all all of that is a whole complicated They're all just living together in this commune on the land? What's it worth? Yeah, kind of. What's all that land with the house on it worth? I'm just curious. I don't know as of right now. I know they bought it for like nine an acre, and so it's probably worth a lot more than that.

57:54Yeah, we're wondering, is part of it can be sold to clean up mom's debt since she's part owner? It's a lot of acres. Could you sell off 20 of it or however much needed to clean up her debt and give her a nest egg to draw from? I think it is. I think if I offered that as a solution, that's going to be a non-starter. What is their solution so that mom doesn't just, you know, mom isn't broke the rest of her life? Right. Well, and that's where I'm kind of as the outsider now. I'm trying to help her with what I can, but I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback. and so I tried to just go hey let me help you with your finances that you have now and it's always been turned down until she called me in tears not being able to make minimums and I said I will I will gift you money but I would love for you to let me help and what'd she say now that I've seen now she tearfully you know kind of depressively accepted Okay, and then what happened next?

59:01Well, so it gave us the opportunity to actually go through the numbers and see what her income is, what her outgoing is, and it's a lot worse than I thought. What is her income? So she makes$1 ,800 a month off of Social Security disability. Okay, nothing else. There's nothing else coming in. There's nothing else coming in. No money saved, no nest egg, nothing anywhere except this land. Correct. And is she paying the mortgage on her own right now? So she's paying a portion of it. Mortgage is$8.75. She's paying$3.75 of it. And my sister is paying$500 of it. Okay. Now your sister, tell us about her because she's living in the house with your mom.

59:47She's paying the majority of the mortgage. She has a stake in this land. What does your sister say to all this? Have you sat down with your siblings and said, hey, here's the deal with mom. What are we going to do? Yes. And how does that go? So it hasn't gone well. My sister has not made very good financial decisions, in my opinion. She's doing her own little debt consolidation thing right now that is, you know, they're letting it default. And then she's paying them to do it. And I advise against it, you know, you know, try to follow the teachings of what y 'all tell us. And so she so she's not currently living with mom.

1:00:35She was living with her until she got married a year, a year and some change ago. But she's just paying the mortgage. She's paying the mortgage even though she's not staying there. Correct. Because the plan is for her to come back. And eventually when when mom dies, it'll be her house. so again it's all very intertwined got it um but so so do you not think coming in do you not think that because part of me is thinking okay this plays out like you think it is which is the track recorders they're not the track record is they're not doing things the way you think you should be doing them and they're not making smart choices at some point this is going to implode do you not feel like when this implodes that's when the sister is going to really the sister is going to be left holding the bag because she's the one that's going to be living there and she's the one that's going to want the house and in order for her to keep the house she's going to have to sell off some of this land well the creditors are going to come after the estate which your sister's a part of right and so there's no way anyone's getting out of this scot-free here and so for people who have a lot of plans they are really terrible at planning oh i know and i don't know how much do you get any portion of this when this all like when your mom passes i i declined all of it Okay, so.

1:01:50Because I know what it'll do. And I was like, I'm okay on my little half acre. Yeah. It's like inheriting a wasp's nest. You're like, no, thank you. You guys can take over that. You might need to just step aside and let them do what they're going to do. Because you've said it. You've said it again. Right. And you've said it again. You might just need to let them lay in the bed that they made. Well, and as far as the land and all that goes, I 100 % agree. But as far as just her income and debt go, I've told her, I was like, you know, there's got to be a way. And so just her finances on her side alone, I don't know.

1:02:32Like, there's no way. I don't really see a way for her to do the baby steps because she can't even meet the minimum. But she could if she sold off some of this land. She's not assetless and she's making the choice. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm guessing there was no written agreement here with this land of what would happen, who wants out, how would they get out, or someone going to buy her share. And I advise them that they need to have everything on paper, notarized, and none of that happens. Yeah, I don't know that she can force the sale of this land because she's a minority stake here. So I would at least look into it with an attorney to see what the options are.

1:03:08I would try to influence your mom to say I want out to the siblings. I don't think you can influence the siblings at this point. I think there's already been enough of a wedge drawn there that you're not going to make any headway there. So that's the sad truth of it. But here's what I would do for your mom. Have her cover her four walls first, and if she can't make minimums on the credit cards, the credit card company can kick rocks. They're not going to get paid before food's on the table. That's kind of what I told her. And so I was curious, a little additional advice in regards to that. She's barely making four walls now.

1:03:43Yeah. Well, if she can't make the mortgage payment, sister's going to pick up the slack, isn't she? That's right. That's what's going to happen. That's on her. That's what happens when you, you know, co-sign. And so that's what I would be doing is make sure mom is healthy, safe, has food, the lights are on, and I wouldn't pay the debts if you can't pay them. And next I would move to the mortgage if she can't pay it because someone else is on the hook for that. And this is the price you pay. So I'm so sorry you're going through this, Micah. This is messy all around. I just don't see a happy ending here for anybody.

1:04:12the most you can do is just support her through this emotionally.

1:05:04Here's the deal, America. save. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

1:05:32Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Let me see if I can find a question of the day here. It's sponsored by YReFi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life happens and Y-Refy won't shame you. They'll help you explore a real plan to get back on track. So head to YRefy.com slash Ramsey to find out more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Not available in all states. Cool, cool, cool. Today's question comes from Andre in Oklahoma. I didn't sing this time, George. Thank you. I'm 21 years old and have roughly$75 ,000 in cash. My vehicle and motorcycles were paid with cash as well as everything else.

1:06:13My question is, if I was looking to be a risky investor, where are my best options? What? That took a wild turn. He's ready to get crazy. Did I read that right? I don't even know if this is a real question, but I'll treat it as such. So he wants to invest the$75 ,000 in some risky behavior, some risky business? I'm just confused because a 21-year-old must have worked their tail off to get$75 ,000 in cash, unless it was inherited. And so he's worked hard to make sure everything was paid in cash, avoid debt, And now he's wanting to take on risk somehow to be a, quote, risky investor. So my first question is, why?

1:06:48What is your actual goal? Do you want a million dollars by 25? Well, then what's behind that? You know, I want to get to the root of this because I think it's just young people going, well, I got to make a lot of money now. Interesting. Maybe he's just asking for a friend and he's trying to. Well, you asked the wrong people. I don't do risky investing. I mean, crypto, that would be very dumb. Yeah, I guess if you wanted, if I was not me and I said I've got, you know,$50 ,000 I want to go throw at something, I'd probably just like put it all on black on crypto and hope for the best. Otherwise, just go to Vegas.

1:07:22Go sports bet on a parlay or something. Yeah, I'd day trade it and see if I could make a spread if I want to do the riskiest. I hope that a company's single stock does really well. Single stock, yeah. Like some AI pharmaceutical company or something. Oh, you could buy a, was it enough? No, I was going to say he could buy a. half a bitcoin i don't know what the cyber truck since those are dropping like rocks that is definitely not an investment a lot of people think cars are an investment can i just say when somebody buys a brand new car and they say yeah it was a solid investment i'm like you're an idiot i'm respectfully that's the dumbest thing you could ever say that a new car is a solid investment well i've got a i've got a buddy of mine and he's he bought like a ford gt and it was like$340 ,000.

1:08:06But he's like, well, it paid off because now it's worth 400 something thousand dollars. Certain cars. But he also is, you know, has to like keep it pristine in storage, can't drive it, can't enjoy it, can't use it. I'm like, dude, just buy some art if you want to just put something on the wall to enjoy. For real, for real. If you want to be an investor, I don't think risk should be a major factor you're looking for. So I would personally just park it in an index fund if you want some flexibility with this money that tracks the S &P 500. I would max out retirement accounts. And I would invest in yourself.

1:08:39At 21, you're doing this well. Maybe start a business. That would probably be the best quote unquote risky investment I would make is all cash. Start a business based on something you're really passionate about that you know a lot about that you think you'd be good at. I got to believe there was a typo here. And my guy just forgot one word. I think where he's coming from is because he's so young, like he feels like he can invest in something high risk high reward and let and has the time to make up for it yeah okay like if he basically if he lost it all he'd be like okay well i'm 22 now with less money i'll be okay all right i'm not saying it's good i just mean i think that's kind of what he's that's where he's coming from i think this question came from producer james and he secretly is this you is this you asking for a friend james you know i go by andre in the street so james is an old man he's not looking for a risk at this point he's just looking for some peace and quiet.

1:09:25I love that. Great question, Andre. But when you say risky investor, it just like all of my red flags go up at once. Because I want you to build wealth and keep it. And I'm a man of faith. I love this verse from Proverbs 13. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it. So that's the principle I live by when it comes to wealth building. I'm trusting Solomon over some dude on TikTok. I think the Bible has some great wisdom in that. So read Proverbs and then get back to us, Andre. Appreciate the question. All right, let's get to the phones. Pastor George has put the pulpit down.

1:10:02Also, James is now Andre in my mind from Henceforth Forever. So good. Aaron is in Denver up next. Aaron, how can we help today? Hi, I'm next to taking my call. But we're trying to do a career change for my husband. Okay. And he's been 20 years. We don't get a pension, unfortunately, but he's done 20 years. He's ready to switch careers. But this career switch is going to be a huge hit to our finances as we build up back some more experience in that new career. What's he do now? So he's in law enforcement right now. Okay. What's he want to do? He wants to fly helicopters. Okay. And what does that process look like?

1:10:50So he's already gone through all the certifications. He's actually teaching and working part-time right now. So we've already gone through the schooling and all the things he needs for that. What's the financial difference? So what's he making now as a cop, and what would he be making doing helicopters full-time? So that's the thing. So as a cop, he's making$140 before taxes. Okay. um but flying he'll be essentially having that having that until he can build up yeah having like do you guys have any debt right now just our house and child support okay do you could you live off of seventy thousand dollars today yes there was a lot of hesitation there did you actually run the budget out?

1:11:43I did. So I looked at, you know, I followed the budget to save up because we have, I have about four months saved up for kind of where we're at right now to cover at least our, you know, child support and house and utilities. You know, I have that saved up for four months. When will the 70k go up or is that kind of just what a helicopter pilot makes? Will it ever go up to 140? It may. So it depends on your hours, right? Early hours, because he only has less than 300 hours right now. And to really start making, like have a decent job, EMS, oil rigs, stuff like that, that's up after 1 ,000 hours, up to like 1 ,200 hours.

1:12:32So he's got a good way to go before he can start making comparable money to what we're making now. So I'm seeing on my screen here stuff about taking out HELOCs and pulling money out of retirement. Where does that come into play? Yes. So we're looking at, because again, like right now he's not really making money. Right now he's making$25 an hour. And then when he makes, you know, after a little while he makes$30 an hour. And then after$500 he can make$40 an hour. How quickly does that happen? That depends on how many people want to fly. So it's contract work. Got it. So it's inconsistent. And this is on top of his full-time law enforcement job?

1:13:10This is on the side, nights, weekends? Okay. Well, yeah, so we're looking at quitting next year so he can focus full-time on flying. Okay. And building those hours quickly. So that's why we're looking at the money, having that extra money, or pulling the retirement. It'd be my retirement. So he has his retirement and I have mine from when I quit two years ago to be a stay-at-home mom. I would not pull from your retirement to do this. Okay. I would, if anything, how much have you calculated that you kind of need as a cushion to do this? So we're looking at the$70 ,000 to cover our debts. Okay. Like our basics.

1:13:55So you need$70 ,000 saved in order to make this transition the way you feel like you need to? Yeah, for a year. That'll cover us for the year, yeah. Okay. Okay, so how quickly on$140 ,000 with no debt could you save up that money? You already have four months of emergency fund, which is great. How long would it take you to do something like that? Because I feel like that's what's going to inform this. You can't go into debt over this because if you go in, let me tell you, if you pull out your retirement for this and for some reason it goes south or he doesn't make the money as quickly as you want to, you are going to be filled with resentment.

1:14:32he's going to be filled with guilt and shame and regret and this is not going to be a good deal you're unplugging all of that growth you're basically borrowing at 35 percent to with all the penalties and fees the heloc is going to put your house at risk and add more pressure to all this i would not do this nothing's on fire i would wait a year save up the 70 000 live off 70 and save up the other 70 and then make the move a year from now as he gets more hours on the side i just wouldn't rush this it's going to add way too much pressure and stress to your life right now and you'll know you can live on the 70.

1:15:03Exactly. It's a good test run for 12 months.

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1:16:24Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Good news, Jade. I know you've been waiting for this. Have I? The Christmas giveaway. Oh, yes. I've been waiting. And not only is it a Christmas giveaway, it's a Christmas cash giveaway, because we like to say cash is king around here. Each week, someone's going to win$500, and one grand prize winner will win$5 ,000. That's a lot of money. And you can enter every day from now until December 20th. You can enter daily to increase your chances to win. Just go to ramsysolutions.com slash giveaway right now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. We're not going to be mad if you do purchase something, but you don't have to purchase something to be a part of the giveaway.

1:17:01I want to interview the people that win this and I want to know what they do with the money. I remember when I was on the team, you know, for a long time now, so I've had a lot of jobs here and I was, one of my jobs was email marketing. And so we got to like email the person. Really? And tell them that they won? Yeah. And we do like, I would send the email, like, here's the winners for the week and all that. And so it was a lot of fun to get to be a part of the behind the scenes. I would hear like my coworker call the person to let them know that they've won. It was like a game show. was so fun.

1:17:27Put me on that. Real people win this thing, guys. We actually mean it. So there you go. Go enter. Jane is in Scranton, Pennsylvania up next. Welcome to the show, Jane. How can we help? Well, thanks for having me on. Sure. I'm calling for some advice on how to handle my 29-year-old son who has moved back home to follow the Baby Steps Millionaire Program. He wants to pay off all of his private student loan debt. So he's moved back home. We're glad to have him. I'm nearing retirement age. My husband's been retired a long time. We're in decent shape financially, no debt at all. But expenses are hard.

1:18:09The cost of maintaining a home has increased, the cost of utilities, the cost of food, property taxes. So our budget gets stressed a little bit from time to time, especially, you know, times of the year like this when the heat's on. And so does it cost more to heat the house with him in it? Well, not necessarily, but the cost of food goes up and, you know, him keeping the lights on where that part of the house might have normally been dark. Sure. The water, the utilities will bump up a bit. He'll be eating your foods. Your food bill is going to go up. Why don't you tell him he needs to contribute a little something, something?

1:18:46I did. So his response was, well, I asked him if he would take on one bill. I said, just one bill. You can pick out whatever one you want. So I showed him my, we have your budget app. So I showed him my every dollar budget and I said, pick one. And his response was, well, let me look at all of your bills so that I can see how you can cut costs so I don't have to do this. Let me tell you something. Wow. That is maniacal. How about this? You say, you know what? Forget that plan. You're going to pay us$300 a month if you want to live here. Or you can just go live somewhere else. That sounds good to me.

1:19:28Man. Is he working full time? Oh, he has a very good job. He's a government employee with a GS-13 level job. Oh, my gosh. What does he make? Oh, well over$100 ,000 a year. And right now he's in the military. He's a high-ranking officer. and he's making all of his money tax-free because it's an active duty to pull him. And he won't pay one bill? How much debt does he have? I'm sorry? How much debt does he have? He has no debt other than a student loan. So he just wanted to invest? No, no, he has debt. You said he has no debt except for all these... Other than student loans. Yeah, that's debt. If it ends with loan, it's debt.

1:20:11So how much debt? So I think he's got... He had well over$100 ,000. and he's down to about$35 ,000. Okay. He moved back in to pay off$35 ,000 making over$100 ,000? This feels crazy. This is my son. What was he doing before? But you said yes to this. Was he renting before on his own or what? He was renting before on his own. Prior to that, he was engaged to a wonderful woman, and he was living with her. They were supposed to get married in a couple of months, And she just got so frustrated with him being so cheap that she broke off the engagement and threw him out. Okay, there you have it. Oh, my goodness.

1:20:50And there you have it. So this is a character trait of he was cheap with a girlfriend. Possibly one of the reasons they were living together was so he could lower his expenses. Because then right after that, he turns around and moves in with you. Do you know what I would do if I were in your shoes? I'd love to know. I would say he can't live here. I'd say I love you, but you can't live here. you don't need to live with me to pay off$35 ,000 of debt. You've got plenty of income in order to do that. And I see this as a pattern, sir, son, you need to move out and you need to learn to open up the purse strings.

1:21:25He is not struggling financially. Now, if this guy had just gone through a really tough time, like a divorce, had nowhere to go, and he was really struggling financially, I'd say, hey, let's give him a little bit of a hammock for six months to get him on his feet. This man doesn't need that. I agree. And so have you had that conversation? And I appreciate your health. No, we haven't had any kind of a hard conversation like that because he has just recently moved in. We're talking just a couple of weeks. Okay. What's your husband say? I'm trying to set the ground. My husband is elderly. He's 25 years my senior.

1:22:04And at his age, he's just glad to have him back in the house. I see. I see. Yeah, you got to be careful. He's already in the house. So I would just create a timeline and say, listen, I know how much you make. I know you can put this much toward the debt. So if you do it this way, here's the rules. And if you can pay this off in, I don't know, six months, let's say, is that possible? Probably, yes. That's$5 ,800 a month. Could he do that living at home with no expenses? Absolutely, he can. See, George is... I'm just throwing napkin math out there. And she said, absolutely, he can, because she knows how much he makes.

1:22:38Yes, but I'm like, the boy must go. yeah i know i agree but you've already he's literally made his bed and they're laying they're laying in it and so i would do that if my husband wasn't so thrilled to have him home here's what i think is gonna happen he can come over every night for dinner you know what i'm saying this is true you know this is we don't i because what i what i see happening because he he loves saving money he wants to save a buck and what i see happening is he pays off the debt then the next goal comes well i want to save up x amount of dollars wait till i have enough for a down payment yep and it's gonna the goal post is gonna keep moving and truly that's why i say as soon as you have this debt paid off you're gone and that's gonna be six months from now and we're gonna have a meeting every month you're gonna show us the debt balance if you're gonna be living here do you think he'd do that he would and and i so appreciate this advice because i know he's listening.

1:23:33Oh, good. Oh, man. Let me send him a message. Let me send him a message. Sir, if you're listening, I think that you need to move out. I think that you need to learn how to handle your expenses. It's OK. It costs money to live. As an adult, it costs money to adult. That's rent. That's a mortgage. That's paying for your own life. And at the very least, if you are going to live in your mama's house, you need to pay for the electricity that you use and the food that you eat at 29 years old. All right, mom, I set it for you. Mom's going to apply for him to be on extreme cheapskates. They're just going to follow him around the house with the camera, watching him mooch off of you guys, and his elderly dad to save a buck while he makes six figures as a high-ranking official in the military.

1:24:16And also thank him for his service. Yes, thank you for your service. All jokes aside, he sounds like a great young man, but he's just too cheap for his own good. He can't help it. He can't help it. He already lost a great woman over this, you know? Yeah, that's true. You could have had a really sweet relationship with this woman if it all panned out. Well, if he moves out, maybe he can get her back. Now that would be a love story for the ages. It would be a love story. One never knows. He's going to go around his 25 cent rings to try to propose. That's probably, she saw that writing on the wall and said, no, thank you.

1:24:48That's not good. Goodness gracious. What an interesting conundrum. I'm trying to really put myself in her shoes. I couldn't. Now, here's the thing. This is where I'm a softie. if it was my daughter, I think I'd, I'd treat it differently. At 29. But here's what got me when she said, pick a bill to pay. And he's like, instead of me paying the bill, let me lower your expenses and crunch your budget and make you, like that, that got me. Yeah. The other thing that I've seen that can work decently is if you say, hey, you're going to pay 500 bucks a month to live here. Mom and dad set that money aside in a savings account and give it back to him when he moves out as a surprise.

1:25:24That's a nice gesture if you don't need the money. But truthfully, they were saying it's already a little bit tight. Yeah. And so they could use the extra money if he's, you know, mooching off the house and racking up the utility bills. I think that's fair. It's a failure to launch for me. It's a failure to launch. He has the money. And he has the discipline. He does. I mean, if you're a high-ranking official, you don't get there by being lackadaisical. So, man, that's a tough one. But what a sweet woman. I get it. She's just too sweet for her own good. and he's too cheap for his own good.

1:26:22Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Joey's up next in Orlando, Florida. Joey, what's going on? Hey, how are you? Doing great. What's your question? Thank you for having me. So about two and a half years ago, we bought a house and renovated this house kind of knowing it would be a really solid investment. I knew that if we got too tight, something we could sell and end up making some money on. We bought the house and got into it. What we didn't expect was to kind of fall in love with our neighbors and our community.

1:27:03And now we've got four kids, and we've kind of built this community around us that the kids can kind of roam freely. And really it's kind of become a dream scenario in that way. But we're living a little tighter than we'd like to. So the question kind of comes down to should we be willing to sacrifice the community and take the profit from the house and move that into something where we have a little bit more financial peace? Or do we stick it out and see if we can kind of grow our resources to a point where it makes sense to continue living in this scenario? Wow. What's your mortgage every month?

1:27:44It ends up being about$5 ,700. And how much do you bring home after taxes? Well, it varies because the way my wife owns some commercial real estate and I'm in the live production business. So at times we get paid, we kind of do it more quarterly than monthly. If you were to take the average across the year, what would it be monthly? Monthly ends up being probably around$12 ,000 a month. So yeah, you're feeling it. You're right. You're starting to climb up to almost half of your take-home pay being eaten up by the mortgage. Do you guys have any other debt? No. We have a car payment and one car payment, and that's it.

1:28:34Okay. Has the mortgage always been this large, or did you roll up? It has not. No. We actually, our old mortgage, for this house, yes, it has always been this much. Okay. How long have you been there? You've been managing almost half of your take-home pay going to this for how long? About two and a half years. Okay. Wow. What's left on the balance of the mortgage? A lot. Like a million? I'm trying to figure out what causes a$6 ,000 mortgage payment. It's about$500, and I think our mortgage is about$575. We still owe somewhere around$570. Okay. And what's that worth? It's worth about$1.4 currently.

1:29:19Nice. So you've got a good amount of equity in there, which is awesome. Is there any opportunity for your incomes to grow sustainably to closer to$20 ,000? Yeah, I just started this job last January. And in my first year, I doubled my salary from the previous year. And there's potential for that to grow again in the coming years. So wait a minute. At one point, this mortgage was even higher if you just now doubled your salary? no we uh so what we have done is the community we live in has a lot of garage apartments that allow us to be able to take some of that income uh so we actually rented out our garage apartment for the last two years that brought in around fifteen hundred dollars a month understood on top of of that so on top of the 12 or so that you're bringing in the 12 correct okay yeah i think i would feel good about this if we can make sure that both of our incomes are going up and over the next year, there's a trajectory to get to that 20-ish mark because this mortgage, it's only going to go up at this point because of property taxes and insurance increasing.

1:30:28Correct. So the only thing you could do to lower the payment long-term is refinance or do a recast. If you have a lump sum payment you make on that principal, you could recast it and then it'll just lower that monthly payment while keeping the same balance and term. So those are the only two options you have other than selling downsizing are there cheaper homes in the same neighborhood that would allow you to keep the community not at the same size no you got four kids so yeah is there um and you have no savings to speak of anywhere um i have some but not much we we would certainly like to build more margin in those areas we're kind of at the point where we're just now starting to get a little bit into that margin but how old are you point if the air conditioner goes wrong, it's a bad thing.

1:31:14I am 39 years old. 39. And there's nothing in retirement, hardly? No, no retirement to speak of. I was in ministry for 20 years and was kind of barely making it for... I'm worried. I'm going to tell you my worry, and it's probably your worry too. I'm worried that if you hang on to this too long, you're going to miss out on valuable years of investing because it's going to take some time to get this down. Because even to George's point, if you say you start going on a positive trajectory for the next year, even if you get it down to 40%, it's still going to be taking away from your ability to do that.

1:31:52You know, that's really 25 % is where you want to be. And even at 30, it's kind of like you can do it, but I'd love for you to get a little lower. Right. So I'm a little nervous about that. Um, I'm a little nervous. I'm not going to lie. I'm at the point where I know the financial, the smartest move financially would be to sell and take that money and to invest and start building that. But the, the part that's hard is the investment into my children. That's very tough. Is there, I mean, I feel you on that because I have young kids and I think about the same thing sometimes. Part of that though, I will say when you have a great community, part of that is you as well, because that means that you're the type of person who, when you see other people, you speak, you remember people's names, you make an effort, right?

1:32:46So part of that's on you. And yeah, the fallacy is if we moved anywhere else, we would never have a great community. And so you kind of have to take that part off the table because it's justifying staying in a bad situation. Because the overall fear is, and you feel this too, is the dream home turns into a nightmare retirement. And you can't accomplish any financial goals, but we can just survive in the house for the time being. And your payroll's not going down anytime soon. You got four younger kids. How old are they? They're from one years to 11 years. And the 11 year old, before you know it, they're going to be looking at college.

1:33:23So these are the things that are knocking on your door in the next six years or so. I would give it a timeline. Yeah, I would give it a timeline and I would, you and your wife sit down together and start to map out a plan and bust our butts to figure out what we can do career wise. If we want to keep this lifestyle up, here's what it's going to take income wise. And that means taking home 20 grand and the mortgage is now five or 6 ,000 of that. And if you can get to that point in the next year, and that might mean, Hey, I got to start my own business here, or you're going to have to go do this on the side to try to figure this out and see if it's sustainable.

1:33:59And if after a year, you're still in the same shape, I would go, all right, I'm 40 now. We tried. We're going to have to make a hard call to move neighborhoods and downsize and take our probably 700 something thousand in net proceeds and roll that into another house, either with cash or take on a very small mortgage so that you guys can breathe. Because making 12, your mortgage should be closer to like 3 ,000, 4 ,000 max versus 6 ,000. And so these are the hard choices to make, but you're very thoughtful about this. And this is a conversation for you and your wife to decide the timeline. We can't do it for you.

1:34:37Nothing's on fire, but you can see the fire in the distance. That's the fear here, Joey. We're rooting for you, man.

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1:36:00All right. Let's talk real estate, Jade, shall we? It's on a lot of people's minds right now. Indeed it is. Indeed it is. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. And there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, conflicting data, fear mongering, and it's hard to know what's really happening in the market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426 ,000. A typical season shift as we head into the fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers face a little more competition. Mortgage rates dip slightly to five and a half percent in September, giving some buyers breathing room.

1:36:33And since rates are unpredictable, do not try to time the market. Just buy when you're financially ready, not when rates drop or when you hope they drop. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jessica is in New York City up next. Welcome to the show, Jessica. Hello. Five years ago, my father gave me$60 ,000 for a down payment on a house, and he wrote a gift letter so that I believe legally I don't have to pay back that$60 ,000.

1:37:06But verbally, he asked me to either pay it back over the years or have it taken out of my inheritance. And every year, my father gives a gift to his children, his four children, in cash, and we can either take the cash or have it given back as part of loan repayments because we all use my dad as a bank in some way or another. And this year my father very generously wants to give us$10 ,000, which is a huge amount. And he wrote me an email saying I could take the$10 ,000 in cash, but he really wants me to start paying back the loan with interest. It's now$71 ,000. I didn't know there was interest.

1:37:47That's interesting. I know. So wait. He gives$10 ,000 every year, but that part is the gift. It could be$1 ,000. It's like his Christmas present. Got you. But this year he decides each year. This year it's a big one. It's$10 ,000. And he's saying he's going to withhold that because you haven't paid back his loan slash gift plus interest. I could take the cash if I want, but he encourages me to start repaying the loan. Did you know the loan had interest? No. Is this written anywhere? This was just a verbal, hey, you owe. And he expects that to hold up? Yes. Goodness Christ. This whole thing just feels toxic.

1:38:34Is your dad controlling? Not really. He shows love, I would say, by giving money. You know, that's his connection to his children. But he gives it, and then he's going to come back around and say, hey, I gave you$10 ,000 for Christmas. I would expect that back at some point. Yeah, why was the$60 ,000 suddenly alone when everything else is a gift? Is that him trying to build some sort of responsibility into you? What's the meaning of that? I'm not sure. I know he's done it for all of his other children. He helps them buy houses, but I don't know the details of their financial situations, like how much he gave to each of them and who's paid it back and who hasn't.

1:39:20Well, if I were in your shoes, I'd be trying to get out of this loan as fast as possible because I don't like the way it feels. What did you use the$60 ,000 on? A down payment for a house. Okay, and you're living in that house now? Yes. Is it just you or are you married? I just got married a few months ago. Okay, what's your husband saying about this? Does he know? He does know. I did talk about it with him, and he said, don't put it in writing. Don't respond to the email saying that I acknowledge that there is a loan, and just to wait it out and see what happens with an inheritance, whenever that might be.

1:39:58Who knows if it's five years, ten years, thirty years. Yeah, but in the meantime, your relationship with your father is destroyed. And apparently interest is accruing. Yeah, I did the math for you. It's about 3.4 % compound interest. Did he give you the option for it to be taken out of your inheritance? Did he give you that option? Not in this recent email. That's just what I remember him saying, you know, five years ago. I'd do that. I'd say, yeah, dad, if you want to take it out of my inheritance, that's good. And I'd get that in writing so that it's, you're free and clear because that's money that you don't have yet.

1:40:36It's not affecting your life today. So, you know, yeah, I'd do that. Can you afford to pay him back the$60 ,000 in a reasonable amount of time? No. I could, if he keeps giving me$10 ,000 a year, I could keep telling him, sure, put it back towards the loan and it would be paid back. That's what I was going to say. Will he just apply the$10 ,000 and say, hey, Dad, just take that off my loan balance, which gets me to$61 ,000 back to square one? He would do that? Yes. I could do that. That's going to take seven years. Yes. while interest accrues it'll just keep climbing back up and then get knocked back down a little bit ask him if he'll take it out of the inheritance can you like call him instead of like emailing like a transactional bank just the whole thing feels odd to me it's really more of a moral question it's why i called because i just i wasn't sure how to handle the situation and really if i should even try to pay it back i think if it was a loan and you knew it was a loan you have to pay it back.

1:41:36Now, the interest part, I don't really like that he added that and you didn't know about it. But I do think that if he has said, I can just take it out of your inheritance, I'd go that route. I just want it in writing so that this is over and done. The transactional part, I hate that it's like that, but we're here now. So you may as well cover your butt and get the fact that the whole loan is going to be free and clear covered in your inheritance. Well, it's going to be hilarious is part of the inheritance. He's going to go, well, it's now$150 ,000 balance on this fake loan. So that's how much I'm going to take out of your inheritance.

1:42:12Well, I'd want it at the present value, not at a later value. At this point, I would say, hey, Dad, we never did this in writing we should have. That's both of our bad. We need something in writing to make this really clear of what your expectations are because I'm frustrated because you didn't explain any of this to me. And now I owe$11 ,000 more to Bank of Dad while he's trying to gift me other money. This whole thing is strange. And I don't know if you can see it because of your relationship with him, but there's just something odd about all of this. I don't think I'd take any more money. Okay.

1:42:44And this is why we tell people, don't loan your family money ever. If you want to gift it, gift it and do it joyfully and don't expect it back. But this whole like, it's a gift as far as the IRS is concerned, but it's a loan secretly and verbally. You can see how messy this stuff can get. Yes, I appreciate it. So morally, do I think you're a bad person if you don't pay it back and it gets taken out of the inheritance? No. But in the meantime, again, the relationship with your dad is gone as far as you know it if this isn't taken care of. Because this is looming in his mind every Thanksgiving, every Christmas when he's about to gift you more money.

1:43:19He's going, yeah, but should I? She owes me money and hasn't paid me a dime back. So either get on a payment plan or decide it's going to be part of the inheritance at the current rate and just move on with your life. but I don't think we can stay at this status quo that we're in. Oh man, that hurts my heart, Jade. It's too much. Because I just like, I'm trying to picture myself in that dad's shoes, giving or loaning my daughter, my grown daughter money. And I just, I would hate for a relationship. It's too much power play. Yeah, it just puts, it makes you the lender and you know, the debtor. And I just think that makes an awkward relationship for someone that you raise, that you love.

1:43:58if you love them and you want this to be a gift, let it be a gift. And if you're not comfortable with that, don't loan the money. Just say, hey, wish I could help. I can't. And don't co-sign. Don't do any of that. But the middle ground is where things get messy. When you want to help, but it's kind of a loan. Yeah. It's just give people money, especially your family. I'm thinking about my kids right now and I'm thinking, yeah, if the time came and Sam and I wanted to help them, we would just help them. and it almost feels like anything else is an attempt to kind of try to control them from beyond that's what i think there's something more to this and we couldn't pinpoint it i'm gonna teach them responsibility so i'm gonna but i just wonder if he likes having a little bit of control because once kids are adults they're kind of out of your control yeah so you have to do things to get the spidey web yeah yeah cast your spidey web on them so you have a little bit of connection there, even if it's not a true, honest, authentic connection, it's still something that ties me to them that they can't get away from.

1:44:58Sometimes parents do that though. It's so subconscious. Like they don't realize that that's the why behind what they're doing. Gotta be careful. Yeah. I just hope my kids know I love them more than, well, they show their love through money, giving or loaning. I just, I want them to know that's the last thing on the list. That's good, George. So that's just one man's take as a dad of a young daughter. take it with a grain of salt.

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1:46:31Joshua is in Greenville, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Joshua? Hey, Jay. Hey, George. How are y 'all? Doing great. Thanks for answering my call. Yeah. What's going on with you today? um so i am struggling with got offered my dream basically dream law enforcement job i used to be in law enforcement um long story short about a year and a half ago um i made a made a officer safety mistake i started searching an individual and i missed a firearm and brought him into the jail when I was arresting him. And so they let me go for failing to conduct a proper search. So a guy that I used to work with, he's now works at a different law enforcement department and offered me a traffic position, like their traffic unit, basically just stopping cars all day.

1:47:29um when I got fired I became a truck driver um because my whole my whole family is in truck the trucking industry so I just figured it was a that's that's the best thing to do was just go get my CDL and start driving trucks but um it is a significant pay cut and my my wife doesn't really want me to to go into law enforcement go back into law enforcement but I just I really feel like that's my calling so I'm just trying to figure out how how can I have that conversation with her that this is where where I feel God's calling me to be so this is not this is not financial at the core this is safety at the core is that what it is what's the root of her not wanting to do this she yeah I think it's more so safety as far as you know I may get to work and not not come home okay is this position safer than your previous law enforcement position or it's about the same no it's about the same um um or is it worse the difference is you're in the road and that puts you you know it's a little more hazardous in that regard yeah yeah but i mean trucking is isn't the safest job out there either yeah it's not the healthiest either no i i also i'm i haul gasoline so that's that's an extra layer of danger a super flammable yeah I will say so.

1:48:54I stay away from those trucks when I'm on the road. If you give her facts and figures, like, hey, this is how many trucking accidents and injuries and death throughout per year versus traffic department officers, could you convince her of that? Or is it more just emotional at this point? I think it's more so emotional, but also it is a significant pay cut. So, like, right, I do, I get VA disability. I get$4 ,300 a month from the VA for my military service. Okay. And then I make, before taxes, about$1 ,500 a week from the trucking. But I would be going down to about$55 ,000 or$60 ,000 a year if I were to leave truck driving and go into law enforcement.

1:49:45It would equate to about a$20 ,000 to$25 ,000 a year pay cut. Okay, my math was giving me$10 ,000 or$15 ,000 pay cut because you're making$6 ,000 a month now, which is$72 ,000, and you're saying you'd make$55 ,000 to$60 ,000. Right, but then also – well, I guess, yeah, okay, I guess I did my math wrong. I just want to make sure – it's not to point out you're wrong. It's more to say let's get the facts on the table if we're going to talk to wife about this and go, okay, here's what this amounts to. We're going to have$1 ,000 less per month gross coming in. Now, can we survive off of my$4 ,300 plus the other$4 ,000?

1:50:23Should be able to. I hope so. And that's where I think it would help to actually make a budget based on what you would be making and then go, okay, how does this life feel? Does it feel tight? Can we still accomplish our goals? Can we still retire with dignity? And then we can talk about the safety implications of the new role and how she feels about that. But do you think it's something where over time she could change her mind about this if you kind of laid out the facts and figures? I mean, I think so. Is she working as well outside the home? No, no. She's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. Does that add to this of her sort of the safety gland, security gland flaring up here when you're the single income?

1:51:08I mean, I guess if – yeah, yeah. You have life insurance? I actually just got a quote the other day through Xander, but we have not actually gotten the life insurance yet. Good. I would do that ASAP, and don't delay on that. Because here's the thing. The more I know that my family's protected, the better I feel about whatever's going to happen. And we're betting on the worst-case scenario. I hope you live a long, full life with no injuries or accidents. But the truth is, we just don't know what life's going to throw at us, no matter what career you're in. And so the more you can show her that you're being proactive, I think the better she'll feel about this.

1:51:47And it may take a little bit of time. You know, one month in is scary. Four months into this conversation, maybe she'll be warming up to it. I don't know. Okay. But, I mean, this is going to be a constant conversation in the house, and she's probably going to get sick of it. Yeah. I mean, my take on it is they both, I mean, obviously law enforcement has a level of danger. You did that for how long? Your other job does too. Yeah. Both jobs are dangerous. So it's not like you're choosing one that's a desk job and one that's risking your life. So that's where I think logic would help. But that's where I was trying to get to the bottom of where your wife is at on this.

1:52:28Because the pay cut doesn't concern me that much. Because you have your$4 ,300, which is stable, and you're not cutting the income in half. How much is your mortgage? $1 ,700 a month. Yeah, you'll be all right. That's reasonable. And do you guys have any debt? I have. We're actually wearing baby step two, so I have two credit cards that are$1 ,000 each and a$20 ,000 truck, and that's it. Okay. Here would be my stipulation. If you talked to her and said, hey, I'm not going to make any moves until we're completely debt-free with a fully funded emergency fund and life insurance in place. I'm going to make sure to work my butt off to get her income back up.

1:53:14Would that change the conversation with her? That probably would. Or, hey, I'm willing to sell my truck to get us to a better place financially to make this move. Would that light her up to go, oh my goodness, who is this person? Probably. I would try all of the above to show her how serious you are about this, how passionate you are about this. And I think over time, if you make all of these moves happen, you lay it all on the table, you actually act the part and do all the work. Like I mentioned, I think it'll change the way she sees this. And even then, there may always just be a part of her that doesn't like that you did this.

1:53:50but at the end of the day it's either you being miserable in a trucking job and still have some safety issues or you being really happy in this new position back to what you feel called to do yeah because there's part of this where i'm thinking you've been doing this job you were law enforcement the whole time for the most part that you've been together so it's not like you made this radical change into this crazy field that she had no idea you were you know headed towards so that's the only reason i i think it's okay man that is tough i'm just picturing you driving around with gasoline in the back and she's like well that feels a whole lot safer that doesn't feel good to me than you standing outside of a church directing traffic or on a construct you know while they're making traffic stops that's i mean you got to pull people over you don't know who's in that car that window goes down that's the question is he doing traffic stops is it more you know yeah i just see him out there on sundays you know i think that's like a jobs or accidents you know they might be out there for an accident and that can be you know that's that can be scary there's definitely some safety concerns there but i just feel like it's it's not apples to apples and neither are safe so let's at least be realistic about what the options are he's living life on the edge he likes it there yeah he wants to be out there in the action uh yes he does somebody needs to do it yeah i just but the other part is in the truck world it just does feel like there's it's hard to be healthy it's hard to live a long full life i mean physically healthy you're going into wawa you're sleeping in the cab you're eating snacks it feels like your quality of life it's hard to keep that high while being in the trucking world you you'd probably have to work very hard to make sure you're getting the exercise you need moving your body eating healthy yeah sleeping well it's a lot man both tough jobs i don't know if you asked me to pick one oh i don't know i probably would choose i don't like being just driving that thing would freak me out.

1:55:41Yeah, I think I'd choose long. Oh boy. That's a hard one. I could see you pulling me over. And I'd try to break you to see if I can get out of a ticket and you would not be having it today. Nope. I'd have my notepad. State Trooper Warshaw. Sir, did you know you were speeding? Oh man, that we need to make a skit about that. Your license is expired.

1:56:11Thank you.

1:56:45Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz and I've got great news for you.

1:56:58Our scripture of the day, James 1, 5. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him. Jim Collins said, bad decisions made with good intentions are still bad decisions. We get that all the time on the show here. A lot of good intentions. You had the right idea in mind, just did it the wrong way. Well, I thought if they needed a co-signer, I thought I should co-sign to help them out. It's a bad decision with good intentions. It's a bad decision. Still bad. Rachel's in Minneapolis up next. What's going on, Rachel? How can we help today?

1:57:35Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. I am 29 years old and single. I was living with a roommate back in June, but I moved back home with my mom to help her out with the mortgage. She's having trouble paying it. She's 62. She doesn't have any retirement. She actually had to liquidate. Well, didn't have to catch my verbiage there. She liquidated it back when my parents were married because they were in a bunch of debt. And the divorce was really hard on her. This was like 15 years ago. But I'm on baby step two. I've paid about$8 ,000 down on all my debts. I've got three left, so I'll be out of debt very soon here.

1:58:18But I'm just wondering, do I move out and just do life on my own? Or my heart is telling me that as the oldest sibling, I should help my mom pay off this mortgage because she only makes about$30 ,000 a year and she can't afford it. Is she in bad health? Is she sick? No, no, she's in great health. Then no. Here's the problem. Let's play this out. This is the rest of your life. Do you really see a world where mom is like crushing it and has a paid off mortgage and has retirement? Or is this you needing to basically prop up mom's life while it stunts your growth personally, professionally, financially?

1:59:02Yeah. And that's the hard truth of it. So the next part is, well, then how do we get mom to a better place financially where she's still independent and doesn't need me or my money to survive? That's the ideal scenario, right? So then it becomes, OK, could we sell the house and downsize or have her rent and still cover all her bills and have some left over? That would be my solution if she can do that. So what is the house worth? On Zillow, it says it's about 304. And what does she owe? 136. Okay, so she's got some good equity in this. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Would she be open to that idea or no? No. I mean, I've asked her what her plan is long-term, and she's like, well, I'll just, you know, sell the house one day, live off of that, and live with one of you guys.

1:59:56I have two younger brothers. Did you tell her that's not an option? Yeah, I've been listening to your edit show for the last month now, and I've learned boundaries or, you know, you got to set healthy boundaries. Planning to be a burden is a bad plan. And that's what she's doing. And as long as you're communicating that to her and it's not just a, because sometimes what happens is people are like, I have a boundary. That's not going to happen. But it's like internal, you haven't told them. So as long as you're telling them verbally and it's an expectation that you're saying, here, this is my boundary.

2:00:27I just want to make sure you know. I plan on being married with children. and by the time you're ready to move in with me, I might be getting married. I might be in a part of my time in my life where I don't want an extra person living in the house. So I'm letting you know that today while you're still very young and you still have 10 years to really financially affect your situation. We had a call like this earlier today. But I wanna tell you, Rachel, that sometimes we do have a picture in our mind of especially people we love, how their life should look, whether it's your kids or even your parents, especially as they get older, we kind of create this fairy tale of what we think it should be like.

2:01:10And then when it's not like that, we put so much effort into trying to make it like that. And we'll go to extents. We'll go, I feel it. Like we'll go to so many extents to create the life that we saw for our own parent. And you just can't do that because it's you trying to control and you're like Geppetto trying to, you know, control the way the story ends. And you just sometimes you just have to throw your hands up and go, it's not my life. And to quote John, you kind of have to grieve that and go, man, I thought it was going to be one way. And it looks like she's kind of going to struggle. If you didn't intercede, she's going to get foreclosed on if she misses enough mortgage payments.

2:01:49She knows that, right? Yeah. And I mean, my brothers and I would have stepped in, But I personally feel guilty because I'm getting a good deal living here. Like we're splitting the mortgage. So I'm paying, you know,$775, which is significantly cheaper than anywhere else I would get rent. So I feel guilty. Like I can get. Yeah, yeah. We're splitting it right now. So the minimum payment is like$15. But like I'm she's helping me out in a year because I'm saving money, able to pay off my debt. And I'm going to start building up my emergency fund and saving up for a down payment. But at some point, you're going to move on with your life and maybe get married.

2:02:25And so it's artificially propping up her life right now because she makes, what, a little over$2 ,000 a month? Yeah. And her mortgage alone is$1 ,500. And that doesn't include insurance, food, utilities. But you guys are in the same situation. The same way you're using this as an advantage and saying, oh, I can lower my expenses by living with her. And in the meantime, now I can take my extra money and do this. she can do the same thing. She can say, oh, this is a great time. I can take advantage of the time that my daughter's here covering half the mortgage. Now I can go out. If I make more money, I can make more headway with it.

2:03:01Do you see what I'm saying? You're in the same boat. You're just choosing to take the paddle and row forward. And she's just leaving the paddle in the boat and hoping that you'll row for her. And planning to live off of$150 ,000 for the rest of her life is insane. and I don't know if she knows that yet and I guess she's assuming that you all are just going to fund her life and pay all of her bills so she won't have to even touch that money but you need to make it clear that's not going to work that's not the plan as much as she wants it to be the plan and so that might be convincing her that she needs to sell this house and downsize to a two hundred thousand dollar condo or townhome something she can afford maybe further out than she wants to be so that she can afford this mortgage.

2:03:46So the mortgage is$600 instead of$1 ,500, and now she can survive on her own. It's not a great life. She still needs to get her income up because she's going to have to work for the foreseeable future, right? She has no retirement, no savings? So we did actually stumble upon a$33 ,000 pension that we're rolling over into an IRA, like a Roth IRA. Good. So I was planning on putting it in some mutual funds like you guys suggest. So hopefully every seven years it'll double. So we've got that at least. That's something. Maybe one day she can utilize that. It's not like woo. It doesn't change things today.

2:04:24It's like finding 20 bucks in your old coat pocket. It's not like winning the lottery. So it's great, but she still needs something sustainable. And I don't know why she's only making$14 an hour at 62. What is she doing full time? so she's a tailor but she also um sells custom men's clothing so that feels more like a side job is that like commission yeah okay yeah i would try to find something that's she needs something stable right now and if she has that skill set i think she can be making more if she's hustling i know it's not fun at 62 to be working harder than you've ever worked but you need to let her feel the fire that's in her life right now.

2:05:03And she's, she's healthy, man. 60s and new 40. Yeah. I mean, that's younger than Dave Ramsey and that man is not stopping. He's working all day, every day. Yeah. I think you got to give her more credit. She's, she's not elderly. She's not, you know, it's not like she can't go out and do some hard work today. Yeah. Can she go work at a different shop and do tailoring? I've asked her about, you know, increasing her income and she's, I don't know, she's just not very motivated. Like, she's just like, I can't go out and You know what motivated her? Not being able to make her mortgage payment because daughter moved out and now I have to do this.

2:05:42And right now there's a little bit of almost enabling to where she's a little comfortable because she's got you to float the gaps, right? Yeah. And I think discomfort is what she actually needs right now. As cruel as it actually feels, it's the healthiest thing you can do for a grown adult to get them on their own feet versus artificially propping them up. So I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is so much easier said than done. And if this was my own mom, I would be having the same feelings as you. You want to do anything to help them out. But again, you're not in a place of strength to even help her out.

2:06:13You're also struggling financially trying to pay off debt. If you had multi-million dollars, I'd say, hey, just pay off her mortgage and help her out here, but you're just not in a position to do that at this stage of your life, and that's okay. So good luck with the conversations. I hope we can get her to a sustainable place where she feels motivated, independent, and you're not her retirement plan. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.