Break The Cycle And Build Wealth

24:32He doesn't make money? That doesn't make sense that just because you're home, you pay it. Are you saying like physically I'm the one who puts the check in the mail or are you saying like financially I'm the one that covers it? You cover 70 % of all expenses. So he pays for the mortgage and the property taxes. I pay for the internet here. I pay for the electricity here. How does that break out percentage-wise? Is it like 50-50 or is it like 60-40? Are you paying$300 a month and he pays$1 ,500?

25:04Yeah, he pays significantly more money each month than I do because the mortgage is a lot more than what I pay each month for stuff. And that's essentially your rent because you're not really paying rent. Right. So you're saying you pay a greater percentage of your money than he does. Is that what you're saying? Because you made it seem like you were doing more.

25:26Wait, sorry. You said I'm covering most of the expenses, but percentage-wise you're covering. 10 or 20 percent no correct yeah got it yep and then i cover i cover the groceries in the home i cover like the household essentials and stuff that we need any kinds of like anything that we use in the home i cover okay um so where tell us where the problem is tell us where the rub is so the my thing is is that um i i do a lot to support the home especially him and his daughter and the issue is that I don't make enough money to really save a lot. So I take that back. I do make enough money to save. There have been setbacks.

26:11Like I got an unexpected ticket from a beach in the next town over because apparently we went on a red flag day and we didn't know. Right, but this is normal life. This is life. Tell us where the problem is. So the problem is I haven't had a car in all this time and he puts an immense amount of pressure on me for not having a car and does not like doesn't want to help me get there and it's fine that he doesn't want to help me get there but the problem is like I don't know why I came down here to do it by myself because the reason I came here is because I was under the impression that I was making the sacrifices to be here in order for us to do things together.

26:55Yeah. Like I stepped away from an area where I had opportunities to make more money. Brandy, I think there's a hard truth here. I think you made a lot of assumptions. You had a lot of unfair expectations. And now you have a lot of resentment toward this guy. And you guys aren't even married. He owes you nothing. I mean, he could break up with you today. Right. Absolutely. I think you need to move back home. Sure. And that's what I've been thinking about, too. And the thing is, is it wasn't assumptions. These were conversations that were had. Right. Right. And I believe that. I believe you guys probably spoke about it and it sounded really good for both of you.

27:31I mean, you're not. It had to have made sense in your mind for you to move out there. But the truth is he doesn't have the motivation to hold up that end of the bargain because why does he need to? He's got everything he wants. He's got a woman at home that's taking care of his kid. He, you know, you guys have whatever relationship that you have, you know, romantically. And for him, it's like, why? Well, like, this seems pretty good. Like, it's pretty good for him. And I just, to me. And he's under no obligation to provide for his girlfriend financially. Yeah. Now, if he wanted to, that's his prerogative.

28:09But he clearly doesn't want to. Now, can I say something that you might not like? But this is, take it or leave it. this is just me trying to be, you know, your buddy, us having lunch together. I don't know, but there might be part of this and you can, you just shoot me straight. There might be part of this that, because there's two sides to every story. He might be experiencing you in a way that goes, you know, this girl, like she's kind of like left her whole life and she's kind of following me. And she's kind of, I just want to see, can she, will she do anything for herself? like she left her job to do this I want to see like maybe he's having this side where he's like I want to see what she's going to do is she going to pursue a job that's more than$37 ,000 is she going to maybe he has a set of expectations that he's waiting to see if you'll do I don't know if I'm right I'm not trying to make him the bad guy or you the bad guy I'm just trying to see it from both sides.

29:08Yeah. Oh, and we, we, well, we have conversations about this like frequently because I, well, and that's the thing is I lived in this big, larger area. I was actively pursuing career opportunities, like actively furthering my career and sacrifice like that. That's what I mean when I made sacrifice, a huge sacrifices to be here because I thought that we were, you know, we were going to be supporting each other. Like, that's what I mean. Like, you know. And to be fair, that's an initial sacrifice. And I hear you on that. I think you're exactly, that is a huge sacrifice. My question is, do you have to continue to live like that?

29:47Or can you go, okay, I sacrificed my big job and all this. I'm here now. Do I have to stay like this? Or what is it that I can do to make the best of this opportunity? Or have you truly already exhausted everything and you've made the best of everything that you can. Because if that's the case, then George is right. It's like, if that's not what you want out of your life, yeah, you got to move it on. Because when I'm like, I'm not even asking to be provided with a nice vehicle. I'm just like a way to get from A to B. I'll be honest with you. I'm going to be dead honest with you. I don't think he needs to provide you for a vehicle.

30:27I don't think that's going to be good for either of you because then you'll be reliant on him. I really do think that you need to go out and make this happen. And if you don't feel like you can be your best self in that environment, you need to move on and do what's best for you. You've got a lot of resentment build up, Brandy, and I don't know if we can pop that bubble and diffuse it all. I think you just need to reverse course on this plan.

31:04Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. and I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

31:35Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

32:03It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

32:35tax season is upon us and if you want to get some free checklists some guides that'll help you file go to ramsey solutions.com slash taxes beth is in new york city up next beth welcome to the ramsey show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, well, first off, so a sister at my church bought me the money makeover book and the workbook and I download the app. So I'm, I'm, I'm ready to, you know, take responsibility and make changes to my life. And so as I'm, yeah, it's all good stuff. So I just have one problem. So as I'm going through my numbers and I'm literally in the workbook writing, like I'm the problem when it comes to self-employment tax.

33:17So I have to put aside money every month for self-employment tax, and I can make quarterly or yearly payments, right? Yep. And so I'm finding myself – I did pretty good last year, but what happened was is if something comes up or if anything, I go into that account, which is part of my bank account. I put it in a savings, and I use it. And then when I get paid the next month, and then I put the money back. Uh-oh. So I'm not being so strict. So you're dipping into your tax savings and using it, and then you don't have enough to pay the taxes. Right. But like I said, I paid for this year. I filed.

33:55Everything was good. But I had to – I've been doing this back and forth. For three months, I do so well. I'm strict. How can I put this money aside and not even look at it? It's not even – because my paycheck comes in, and then I automatically have the transfer from my checking to that saving account. But it's there. I see it. Because it's connected. Okay. The solution is simple. You put the cookie jar high enough that you can't reach it without a really tall ladder that you got to go get from a neighbor's house. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's what I would do personally. I would go, you know, you can sign up for our Fairwinds high yield savings account, fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

34:36And it's a different bank than you have now. And then send the tax money over there and pay the taxes out of that account. And make sure it doesn't have a debit card associated with it. That's what we used to do. We would send it to a savings account that didn't have a debit card attached to it. And because it was a separate bank, and in our case it was an online bank, you couldn't just get it. It would take like three days to get that money. You got to go through a few hoops just to access it. And so that's what I would do. Now, we need to fix the root problem, which is you needing to dip into savings to cover these expenses.

35:08But in the meantime, I still would protect myself from myself. Yeah, what's happening in your month-to-month that this is constantly being a thing? Because I'm guessing this is like a decent amount of money. I mean, it's probably a couple of thousand bucks, right? So I put aside now, starting this year of my income, so I have to put aside$600, I'm sorry,$500 every month. Okay. Just to put it aside. So$1 ,500 a quarter. So that means we've got a month-to-month budget problem of around$500. dollars. Yeah. So I, I'm a single mom and I do live months and months. That's something also that I realized and accepted while reading a book.

35:50I'm not done yet. And also, you know, the same thing goes with my emergency money. I put the money aside. I do good for a month or two or three and then something comes up. I have to dig in. What are the types of things that come up? Because what I want to determine is, is this really a, I need more income to cover the things that I really need that I'm forgetting to budget for? Or is it a thing that, hey, these kind of frivolous things pop up and I just don't say no to them? Which one is it? So it's that I have to basically be more strict with my money. So the app helped me when I put in the numbers.

36:23I'm like, wow, I really do have two more money left over than I thought, right? I spend too much money on groceries. Also, things come up like I sign up my son for soccer, which I cannot not do that. I don't want to take away something from who he loves just because mom has one income. I can see that. So there you go. Yeah, so I went into my self-employment tax and I paid and I took out$550, right? Right. So we need to find something else. We need to find another category. If you're saying, hey, soccer's the one thing I'm just not going to budge on, we need to find another category or multiple categories that you can pull this money from.

37:02Or we need to go make more money. Or more money. That could be it too. But think about it this way. If you worked for someone else, like an employer, that money would have never touched your account. So you need to picture this like untouchable money that is no longer yours because it's not. It is Uncle Sam's. Yeah. And if you think about it that way, then you're not going to be tempted to touch it. Think about it like you're illegally accessing this money because it's the government's. Right. And if anything, I kind of wish that I wouldn't even get that money with the paycheck. Well, that's what I'm wondering.

37:30Can you do a direct, let's say a direct deposit of whatever the 500 bucks is? Let's say that's 20%. Yeah. No, I have to make those payments online myself through the EFT, whatever that was. Right, but when you do it to EFT. The IRS payments. I'm saying the deposits from how you get paid over straight to that account. So it actually never touches your checking account. So this is my big question. Where should I put that money so that I don't see it? Why can't you directly pay it to EFTPS? and just do it monthly instead of stacking it up for the quarter because the amount is still going to be the same regardless of when you make the transfer.

38:13I don't even know if that's possible. I think that it is. Check in on that because it's going to, when you go on that site, it's going to ask you to select what quarter, right, for Q1, Q2. And as long as you're selecting, hey, this is for Q1 and you're paying in those taxes, there's no real benefit to waiting for the quarter other than the fact that it typically is a quarterly thing. You can check my information on that, but I remember doing that. I used to handle that for Sam and I's business, and I would just – when the money came, because I was like you, I was like, I don't even want to deal with this.

38:44I would just go in and pay it directly, and it just made managing the books easier. And you said which account. I was talking about setting up a whole different bank account, and as an example, Fairwinds has a great one, a high-yield savings account. It's got an account number, a routing number, and so you can set that all up. And again, that's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to get that smart bundle. It has a no fee checking and high yield savings along with it. So check that out. I hope that helps as a Band-Aid. But again, we need to get to the root problem so you're not underwater each month. Yeah.

39:12So, George, let's for a second talk about budgeting basics because this is something that most people is like, hey, we know what it is, but I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't. When we talk about budgeting all the time, it's a very simple equation. We're trying to put our income down. We're trying to subtract all of our expenses. And what you hope to have at the end of that is margin, right? We hope that we can find a number that's in the positive that we can use to go towards whatever your goals are, whatever baby step you're on. If for some reason you have not done a budget, you need to do that today.

39:46Because what you're going to find is you're either going to have a number in the red that is, oh my gosh, I'm over budget. No wonder I've been using a credit card. No wonder I've been paying for my savings. or you're going to have, you're going to surprise yourself and you're going to go, wait a second. If I actually have any bit of discipline here, I could have some real cash at my disposal at the end of every month. And so I just think George, a lot of people go through and it's just kind of a guessing game of like, uh, I'll do a little here, a little there. And if I go over, it's okay. I'll just write the old credit card.

40:15I remember one girl, she said, she said, I don't look at my checking account because I don't need that negative energy in my life. So wow, that is the most hilarious form of denial ever. And so a budget, all it does is reveal. It's not going to control you. You control the budget, but it's going to reveal where your money's going. Once you see all of your transactions, once you see your income, and most people go, oh, wow, I didn't realize I was spending that much. Like I make good money. I can actually solve this problem with the money I'm making right now. But until you pay attention to realize where those money leaks are and where you can do better, and honestly, it gets fun and a little bit addictive once you realize, hmm, what else can I cut down on?

40:52Because you don't need to spend that much money on a cell phone plan. If you're spending 120 bucks and you go down to 25 bucks, you switch to Boost Mobile. It's like, great, you just freed up 100 bucks a month. I also think part of that is there's an assumption that I'm going to dislike this. There's the assumption that I, you know, when we think about a budget, we think about, we picture someone telling us no, like a big voice out of the sky, like, no, you can't have that. You can't spend. When really, when you start to do a budget for the first time, you start to realize, actually, none of that's true.

41:22I'm just really in control, which that's a great feeling to feel like I'm in control of everything. Actually, no one tells me what to do. I'm just deciding this and I have like power over this. It's a very empowering feeling. And I would challenge the person who has actually never actually tried budgeting, but has a bunch of like emotions or thoughts or opinions around it. And I'm like, have you actually even tried it. You know what it feels like? It's if you don't do a budget, you're like in the passenger seat of a vehicle grabbing the oh crap bar. That's what I call it. I don't know the official name.

41:53When you're bumping around and you grab it. Oh gosh, this person's a terrible driver. I'm like, yeah, because no one's in the driver's seat. It's just vibes. And so as soon as you get in the driver's seat, you go, oh, I can avoid that pothole if I just pay attention. But you'd rather be in the passenger seat, doom scrolling Instagram, holding the oh crap bar. And so that's what a budget does. And if you want to check out the one that we've got, I think it's the best one out there on the market. It's called EveryDollar. You can jump on to EveryDollar.com, download it in the App Store, and start for free today.

42:20It really will give you an amazing sense of control. If you're looking for a more budget-friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry, a biblical, community-based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills. That means no enrollment deadlines, and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self-employed, between jobs, or you just need something that fits your budget better. CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community.

43:01And many members save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional health insurance. And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well. And right now, CHM's offering new members a 50 % credit towards their first month of membership. Get started at chministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey.

43:42Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw, and it's a free call at 888-825-5225. If you need some advice, some help, just the right next step for where you feel stuck, we will try our best to help you get there. Emily is in Austin, Texas up next. Emily, welcome to the show. Hello. Hey, how can we help? So I have a question. Me and my husband live a debt-free life. We're currently trying to have a family, and we're not rich by any means, but we're able to live beneath our means and save some each month. My question is, my mother is almost 73.

44:32She has nothing save for retirement. and we have her set up on for a Medicaid qualifying trust in the event that she has to go into a nursing home she can get the care that she needs. She frequently drops hints that she would love to move in with us and for various reasons that's not an option. My question is what is the best way to kind of have and maintain that boundary and also help her that she needs. I feel like I haven't gotten anywhere when I've had to try to have frank conversations with her about where she stands financially, but I also don't want to go into a sinkhole over this. And I love that you know that, that that's not even an option.

45:28It's very tough to navigate. And I can tell you this. There is if you have in your mind this picture of you saying, here's what it is, mom, and her coming back and going, oh, OK, that makes sense. It's just likely not going to be like that, because if she's dropping hints, it's because that's what she wants. and you're saying something completely contrary to that. And I think the cleanest way to do this is to kind of have written down what you wanna say and to make sure that you don't swerve away from that, to make sure that her reactions don't make you go in a different direction. And you just talk in a very clean, and I'm not saying be robotic, but very clean.

46:11Mom, I've talked to my husband. Here's what we've decided. Like being very clear, not we were thinking that Or we were hoping that, no, here's what we've decided. We have a Medicaid trust here for you. That's what's going to kick in when this happens. In the meantime, you will stay, you know, you will live X, Y, Z. Like, do you see what I'm saying? You're saying what will happen. And then at the end of that, that's it. And then what you can do, and it's something I've done, I've said, you know, I'm also going to send this to you so that you can look back on it and remember what we talked about.

46:46And then I'll send the points in a text or airdrop the file just so that it's very clean. And what it portrays is that I've given this a lot of thought. it portrays that I don't plan on changing my mind because I'm giving you the documentation of it so that you can look back on that instead of continuing to text me the same question over and over again right so that's the way I would handle it and I'm just letting you know if you can be polite but very clean and just hope for hope for the best basically we sit around here okay to be unclear is to be unkind. And so it's all about clarity. No more hints.

47:26Cause what that is, is her passive aggressively asking without asking. Right. And if you let the hints float around, then the heart, the conversation just gets harder. Right. And I have told her before, like that will not be an option. Like we do not have space and capacity, but also on a deeper level, it's not good for a marriage. Absolutely. And I think what you said, just having it in riding as well after having another conversation. Yeah. And saying I keep asking, but the answer will stay the same. Well, then you pivot to solutions and you go, OK, we want to help you figure this out. But our house is not the plan.

48:03Right. And so now it becomes we're working on some or looking at something together instead of facing each other in opposition. I think when you can say I don't know your husband's name, but when you can say Bob and I talked and Bob and I have decided. I think that also reiterates that the family unit has changed, right? And it's now you and your husband who have your family who are making those sets of decisions. And it's kind of just a subliminal way of reminding her, hey, things have changed. And I have to make decisions about my family with my family. Obviously, you're still part of my family, but it's different now.

48:42So have you helped her with the actual budget to show, hey, here's how much you're actually making. So here's the kind of life you can actually afford. I have not done that. I have tried to help her as far as like with savings and things like that. And kind of the conclusion that I've come to, if it's not her idea or if it's not something that she likes, then it's not going to happen. Right. So I've tried to let her know before, just because I'm not doing what you like does not mean that I'm not being helpful for you. You also have to take the help that's being offered. I mean, it's the old beggars can't be choosers.

49:24It's this is the life that you created for yourself. We had no involvement in you having no retirement. Now, you made choices along the way. Yes, you took care of us. You raised us, and we love you for that. But the truth is you have nothing in retirement. So we need to figure out how to live off of your social security. Right. Any assets she has. Can she sell anything? Can she do a little something part time if she's healthy and able to try to bring a little more income if she wants X, Y, Z lifestyle? And you can even remind her of the choices that like if you've suggested something and she's like, oh, I don't want to do that.

49:56Right. But then a couple of days later, she's talking about the results of not doing that. Like if you've said, hey, you're not going to be able to spend money on this because you don't have it. Right. And then a few days later, she's like, man, I'm having a hard time doing this. And you're like, well, I tried to tell you that. What you can do is remind her by saying, I'm not going to be able to help you because remember, we talked about this. And so eventually saying, I'm not able to help with that. And then if she says why, it's, well, because you've said that you're not willing to. And that's going to remind her, oh, this really is.

50:28Here's the help we are willing to give. You can either choose or to accept or reject that help. Yeah. But that's it. This is what we can do. And that's not a fun conversation. I'm not, we're making this sound like just do this and it's going to be great. This is going to be ongoing over time, but you just need to keep being clear, keep being firm. Because if you budge just one inch, she's going to go, oh, I have an in. Right. If I just keep pushing on this little loose Jenga piece, I can get this thing to crumble. Yeah. And you also have the ability, you know, you can decide based on what you know about that relationship.

51:03How many times am I going to answer this question or how many times am I going to entertain this conversation about this specific topic? So you can decide, hey, after I'll give her like three or four times on it. But after four, I'm going to then say, I've said this a couple of times now. I'm no longer going to discuss this one with you. Like you can say that. And then you hold yourself to that. These are really tough things, but they're good boundary exercises to start practicing. Thank you, Beth, so much. Yeah, I'm so sorry, Emily. This is one of those things where it's like you're now kind of having to do the parenting.

51:39The role's flip-flop, man. And it's so weird. They do. It's a good reminder that the biggest expense that's facing a generation right now is not your kid's college. It's your parents' care. It's called the burden retirement, where you now have to fund your parents' care and potentially raise your own kids. So now you've got this kind of sandwich generation. Yes. Who are stuck between with their own financial problems and they don't want mom on the street, but they also can't take her on as a financial burden. And that's where these conversations early, often with clarity and kindness is the only path forward.

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53:44Laura is in Portland, Maine up next. Welcome to the show. How can we help? Thank you for taking my call. Great to speak with you guys. You as well. Okay. I am on baby step two. I am Gazelle intense now. And here's the dilemma. I have two consumer loans. One loan is a vehicle secure loan through my bank. And the other one is the dreaded 401k loans. I do have 4 ,000 in credit card of the total is 33 ,400 roughly of everything. But do I switch gears and make this 401k loan a priority? And I know now that I listened to the show that I'm probably never, ever going to recommend a 401k loan to anyone, let alone myself.

54:44But further than that, my company is starting to do some downsizing. So I also have some worry and I'm on baby step too. So I mean, my backup is the thousand dollar savings. If anything was to happen. Yeah. So for those listening, she's worried about that because if you lose your job, that can become due very fast because the loan, you owe that money. It can become due as quickly as like 60 to 90 days in some cases, or a calendar year in other cases. It really just depends. Potentially by your tax filing deadline for the following year, so that might give you some runway, but I would find out.

55:23That's your first homework assignment. Yes. Yes. Good thought. I have not dug into that. Yeah, I would just get in touch with HR and say, hey, what would happen to my loan if for some reason I was separated from the company? That's it. And then you'll kind of know what happens and when and what the ramifications are, how soon you need to pay. You have$1 ,000 in savings now? I do. Okay. How imminent are these layoffs? They're random. They don't – right now, my area seems to be okay. but that being said, we've had a definite downtick in the amount of work that my area sees. Okay. So what do you make?

56:09That's where I'm, uh,$56 ,000 a year. What's the car loan? What's the balance on that? $13 ,350. Okay. And the 401k loan balance? $15 ,970. Okay. And then the credit cards? $4 ,100. All right. So the 401k line would be second in the debt snowball right now. And you're going, hey, should I put that up first because of this layoff situation? I'd be in a precarious spot. Right. Would there be severance with these layoffs? Have you seen that happen? I have seen severance. I actually have co-workers that I know that they've been put in where they have a severance option. and they're given the choice to find something else within the company within 60 days or take the severance, which would be not a horrible plan.

57:05I have over 20 years with this company. Yeah. I'm just tempted to go, hey, should you pause everything and just stack up cash right now? And that way, number one, you have a little emergency padding if you do get laid off, and number two, you might have enough to cover the whole 401k loan by the time this stuff blows over. Honestly, if I woke up in your shoes, that's exactly what I would do. And that's what I wake up at 2 a.m. thinking about. Yeah, because it's a storm, and you have the ability to see the storm coming, which is a little bit of benefit. And so it's like, yeah, if you can start prepping and start doing all the things that are going to put you in a better situation, 100 % I would do that.

57:45Are you single? Okay. I'm married. Okay. Is your spouse working outside the home? Yeah. Okay, what do they make? And he covers most of, he makes around$130 ,000. Oh, so you have a household income of$186 ,000? Yes, he's covering most of the household expenses right now, so I can focus on this. And he's been great. You guys have separate finances, it sounds like. We do, we do. He's not totally on board with Ramsey's plan. So he wouldn't help you pay off this debt with his amazing income? He could. He's balancing everything right now. When I say everything, like he's paying the mortgage all the way down to the groceries, to the internet.

58:32Well, you said he could. We want to know, would he? Obviously, he could. He has the money. Would he take a bullet for you? He would. But he wouldn't help you pay off a 401k loan? He would if he really had to. It sounds like he really has to. Here's the thing. Listen, if my wife was stressed to the gills, staying up till 2 a.m., worried about this layoff and 401k loan, I'm not going to go, man, good luck, honey. Sounds like a tough spot. I'm going to go take my$130 ,000 salary and cover the mortgage. Honestly, that is wild behavior. Yes, I agree. Yeah. So part of this problem is due to the lack of unity in your own marriage.

59:12Yes, I agree. And it's probably what got you here. The fact that you needed to turn to debt because you are basically on your own financially. Right. I mean, I'm the spender and he's the saver and I'm the worrier and he's the don't worry if this happens, honey, we'll handle it. And I'm just like, but how will we? How long have you guys been married? We've been together for 24 years and we've been married for 12. How much does he have in savings? he's got two thousand ish and he's the saver he's the saver whoa yikes he just paid off all his debt too oh good or not we're i mean he we're doing the plan we're not doing the plan exactly no you're not doing the plan don't i'll be honest you guys would have been completely debt-free by now if you were doing this thing together yeah we probably would because there's Zero accountability, zero transparency, and that's caused a lot of this mayhem.

1:00:13You guys need to get to the bottom of why that is. If you can solve that, then we can be less freaked out about all of this other stuff. That's what I'm getting at. Right. But the band-aid is you pause your own debt snowball and try to stack up some cash. But it's going to be a whole lot harder on$56 ,000 than it would be on$186 ,000. Right. You could save$15 ,000 in three months if you guys work together. And I think part of it is I feel guilty that I spent and didn't make the best choices. And I, you know, here's the shoes and, oh, I can afford this. And why not do this? That's fine. Like, I think it's fair to have the accountability of being able to look back on previous actions and go, man, that wasn't smart or I shouldn't have done that.

1:00:57There's health to that and being able to take responsibility for bad choices. but don't you agree there comes a point where it's kind of like, all right, that's enough. Like, have you ever talked to, have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and they keep bringing up something and after a while you go, you have to set that boundary and go, hey, I don't want to keep talking about that. Right. Don't you think there's that time that you, with your own self, you go, yeah, I know. I don't want to keep talking about that. That was like 10 years ago or that was like two years ago. That's enough.

1:01:30I don't want to keep talking about let it go, man. Right. So I think you just have to do that with yourself as well, because otherwise you're just gonna, that's going to be the refrain that is always in your brain. Why you can't work together? Well, after all, I did do that thing 10 years ago. Like you got to stop. And if he's willing to, if you tell me he's truly willing to do this, but the only reason you're not is because you feel guilty, then, then I'm singing that even louder to you. Like, Hey, let it go, man. Like You got to let it stop because everybody makes mistakes. He's made mistakes too.

1:02:02Right? Right. Right. Oh, yes. We both have. Yes. We definitely have learned some lessons when it comes to money. I mean, I feel like we need to sit down, both read the total money makeover, talk about it. Say that to him. And not leading with an attack, but just leading with, hey, I've done a real terrible job in this marriage and I apologize. And I feel like we have zero unity and I would love to get on the same page. I know it's been 24 years. I know it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but I think our marriage and future are worth it. It's hard to argue with that. Nothing for him to really disagree with there.

1:02:38He's going to go, yeah, you're right. And I've learned so much from this show. I mean, he doesn't listen because he's not able to because of the type of work he does. But I just have to say... Is it illegal for him to listen to this show? I didn't know there was jobs like that. I know. I'm like, at night, on a walk. No, he works in construction and he works in the field and he just wouldn't be able to. I mean, he has earplugs in, just not, you know, they're not earplugs. On his commute home, he needs just dead silence just to recover from the day, apparently. Well, I'm wishing you guys the best, Laura, in cleaning this mess up.

1:03:13There's a lot of layers to this, but you will be okay in the end, especially if you can get some unity.

1:03:24Thank you.

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1:04:59Jade, I just realized something crazy. What's that? The Live Like No One Else cruise is less than a year away. Isn't that weird? Like one year from now, we'll be back from the cruise and I'll be tan and better looking. It's going to take a year for you to get tan? And better looking. Yeah, both and. But it really was a blast last time we did it. That was the first one. We're bringing it back in 2027. The Live Like No One Else cruise. This is for a very specific person. If you are debt free, you've got the emergency fund, you're in Baby Step 4 Plus. Plus, this is the cruise to celebrate with us in the Western Caribbean.

1:05:33It's the only cruise where you can hang out with all of us personalities and Dave Ramsey. Seven days in paradise, poolside chats, live Q &A sessions, so much more. So do not wait. The ship is over halfway full already. The Neptune suites have already sold out. Go lock in your spot with a$600 deposit. Before it's too late, you can click the link in the show notes or just go to RamseySolutions.com slash events. All right, Max is in New York City up next. What's going on, Max? Oh, yeah. So you're going to have a ton of questions as to how I got in this hole, but I'm 26. I'm in New York City, and I found myself in closer to$15 ,000 in credit card debt, unemployed, and renting a shoebox, 184-square-foot apartment for$27.50 a month.

1:06:27and you know I'm not I'm not I know I'm not the first person to find myself in this hole but I just don't see a way out of it and you know the my best ideas at the moment are take out another credit card with a zero percent APR balance transfer for I don't know 12 21 months and just push this debt down the road or that's your best idea well you know we'll get to the some of the backstory if you want, but you know, that, or do I, you know, at 26 years old, is it worth just looking into filing bankruptcy? Are you a New Yorker or did you move there to try to pursue something? No. So, um, I came here on a suggestion because I had, I was at complete rock bottom and I had nowhere else to go.

1:07:10And somebody else was willing to float the first six months of my living expenses to be here. I got out of my third residential rehab program for drug and alcohol abuse. You know, I just made it to 18 months clean and sober for the first time in my life. Wow. That's impressive. So, yeah, I'm very proud of that, you know, and I'm, you know, like diving into spirituality and, you know, trying to strengthen a relationship with God and can't, you know, can't believe that I got here. and now I'm like, what the hell? Where do I even start? I have just no financial literacy. That was never part of my upbringing with my parents and I'm just feeling screwed.

1:07:53Yeah. What were you doing? What was the work you were doing before it went sideways? Yeah, after applying to every entry-level position, I was given a job by someone in a 12-step recovery program. He owned a bit of a canine concierge service, and he allowed me to walk dogs for him. Wow. Is there anything on your record that would make it tough for you to get employment like anybody else? Yeah, I mean, I've been turned out. Yeah, yes, there is. And the reason I feel stuck in New York City is because I am not legally allowed to drive anywhere in the country. Understood. So I came to New York City for the subway.

1:08:36So you need somewhere with public transit. But there's a lot of options for that. So you're not stuck in New York City. You're stuck in a city that has some way to get around with public transportation. Yeah. Okay. What were you making doing the Canine Concierge? Right at about$60 ,000 a year. That's what I was on par for. Wow. Have you been looking for jobs? Is that where you want to stay right now? Could you jump to a different, similar job?

1:09:06I've applied everywhere. Um, except bars and restaurants, because I'll be honest, I'm a little worried about going in back. I was a bartender before I got sober. And we're going to say no to that. Let's not go into that. Yeah, definitely not. But I mean, I've applied, I've applied for, you know, Amazon, I've applied for UPS, anything entry level I've applied to. I just cannot get hired. The one job offer I've gotten in the past two weeks of looking for a job was 100 % commission based for Verizon. And, you know, and I we need something stable right now. We don't need like a maybe I'll make money in three months.

1:09:45Is do you think that the reason you weren't able to get on at Amazon and UPS and those places, was it because of what might be on your record? Or do you just think I just didn't get hired? I didn't even get a call back for an interview. Right. And I'm trying to what I'm trying to ascertain is, do we start do we need to start thinking about what are things you can do to create income on your own? And if that's the case, that puts me in a different headspace because I go, OK, service oriented things that you could provide for other people that don't require that you can use public transportation to do.

1:10:19That's the headspace I'm kind of going in. And some of that makes me think, man, I wonder if a suburban area would be better for you, because then it's like, hey, I do yard work. I do lawn services. If there's any sort of trade that you can do and become kind of a handyman, like I'm trying to think of things that you can do that don't require someone else to have to hire you and have to approve of you, that you can just start today and start with what you have, but also navigate the transportation aspect of it. I get that and I'll do just about anything I know you will get your bike off of Craigslist and start doing deliveries and courier services there you go the weather is nicer in New York City right now too which is perfect yeah it's beautiful out today I have$25 to my name yeah so right now you're on fire right now so you're like hey guys so I'm confused who was floating this$27.50 rent yeah it was like somebody who owned it You never could have afforded this, even making the 60.

1:11:19That was eating up all of your income. It was eating up all my income. I was, I was, yeah, my mom, my mom gave me 700 bucks a month to help for the first six months of this lease. And she said, this is all I can do after this. You're done. And I graciously accepted it. That six months is up. And I've been, you know, I've been, I've been biting the 2750 and, you know, living off of food stamps. Have you gone back to the 12-step program to seek other employment? If that's who gave you this job? Right, yeah. I've been in the rooms pretty much begging for jobs. It's also the beginning of the year, and not everyone's hiring like they are in late summer to getting into the holiday season.

1:12:04I've tried that route, and I'm going to continue to do so. What's your landlord going to do when you don't make rent next month? I have no clue. I would be letting them know the situation. I wouldn't wait until the day comes where he's knocking on your door going, where's the check? I have a feeling I know the answer to this, but you're going to probably say do not put it on a credit card. Absolutely not. And I would be looking at your lease agreement and studying up on that to figure out how do you get out of this thing because there's probably going to be some penalties to break the lease and if you don't pay.

1:12:36It's going to be expensive and difficult to evict you, so I'd just be honest with him and say, listen, man, here's where I'm at. I can't pay this rent anymore. I lost my job. I'm in recovery like I can't do this and you need to go you know maybe get a place with seven roommates and it goes down to 700 bucks a month what type of support system do you have I know obviously family helped you kind of get those first few months started but I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and my mind is going is there some place that I can go back to and go hey I tried my handout here. I need a couple months to get on my feet.

1:13:13I literally have$25 and I'm trying to be responsible and not go into debt. Do you have a buddy? Do you have a family member that would float you for a couple of weeks until you can get a lawnmower, basically? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, financially, everyone I know is tapped out. Well, I'm not saying ask him for money. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if I'm going to say what I'm thinking and then you put it in terms of your situation. I'd probably call up my sister and be like, Farrah, it's hard out here. Like I made some serious, like I thought I could come to New York, but here's where I'm at.

1:13:50I'm what I don't want to do is go into more debt. And so I'm trying to make the most financially responsible decision right now. Could you give me like two weeks, three weeks at your house? Here's my plan. What I want to do is get someplace a little bit more residential, just get someplace where I can start to offer services for people so I can make some really quick money. I'm thinking about doing things like washing windows and repairing people's decks and like, right. Tell them what your plan is, because that's a lot more convincing to let to help somebody rather than I need money. That's not going to work.

1:14:22And remember to cover your four walls first before you pay the credit card company. You got to cover food, shelter, utilities, transportation, and get those down as cheaply as possible. And if you can't pay the credit cards, you don't pay them. You can contact Guardian Lit at guardianlit.com slash Ramsey to help with the settlement collection stuff if you do end up facing that. So sorry, man.

1:15:08All right, guys, if you haven't heard, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down the most asked question from the week, real estate, hot topic. We're getting lots of questions about buying a house. So the main question here, what are the most important factors to consider when buying a house? I love that. Well, definitely financial readiness, right? You want to be completely debt free. You debt, no credit cards, no car loans, nothing like that. And when you do that, it reduces your risk and allows you to actually be able to handle emergencies that pop up.

1:15:41Obviously, we want you to have a fully funded emergency fund, three to six months of expenses. And we want to make sure that you can afford the mortgage payment and any ongoing maintenance costs. So that's so important. We teach that 25 % rule. That's right. And then the next piece is naturally, how much house can you afford? Because the thing is, that mortgage lender will be like, you guys can afford a million home. And you should be like, no, we actually can't based on our real numbers. And so your mortgage payment, including the principal, the interest, the property taxes, the homeowner's insurance, the HOA fees, even private mortgage insurance, that PMI if applicable, should be no more than 25 % of your after-tax monthly income.

1:16:18So that's after taxes, but before all the other deductions like your 401k, your healthcare. So that'll help bolster that 25 % number. And here's the thing, you know, it's not a sin to go 26 % or 30%, but here's the problem. We get calls where it's 50 % and these people are drowning asking if they should sell their home. And so we just don't want you to be house poor. It's not about following strict rules and using a 15 year fixed rate mortgage and avoiding 30 year loans, adjustable rate mortgages, FHA loans, if possible, that's the way to go. Yeah. And not only that, but even saving for your down payment, which is a big hot button topic.

1:16:51Now, you know, you want to aim for at least 10 % down. If you do 20%, of course, you're going to avoid PMI. But the truth is for a lot of us today, you're going to have to put a lot more than that down in order to reach the 25 % rule that George was just explaining. So really hop on there and use our mortgage calculator to figure out exactly how much you need to put down so the payment is right. Because at the end of the day, you don't want to be using any of your emergency funds for this. You should have separate savings and you should also be able to put the right amount down. That's right. And in the mortgage process.

1:17:22You got to get pre-approved before you start house hunting. And that shows sellers that you're a serious buyer. This will help when it comes to offers when you're in the mix there. And it helps you shop within your means. So choose a reputable lender who will prioritize your financial well-being instead of just try to throw the biggest mortgage they can at you. And our friends at Churchill Mortgage, they've helped so many people buy a home the Ramsey way. And if you want to know if you're ready to buy, how much house you can afford, how much you need to save, all that, ask Ramsey. Our free AI tool can personalize those answers for your situation.

1:17:50So that's a great thing. You can go back and forth, have a conversation, save the chat if you log in. So head to RamseySolutions.com and try it for yourself. You can also click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. All right, Kara is in Detroit, Michigan up next. What's going on? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. I am calling today because I wanted to get some advice about how to set my son up for success in his future. So a little bit of background, I'm 27. I am a Ph.D. student at the University of Michigan, and I have a one-and-a-half-year-old. And I've been trying to save money for him and figure out the best way to set him up for the future because I have come from a very poor household.

1:18:41I've been homeless several times and I really would not want that for him. Wow. Yeah, I mean, kudos to you for making this all work. I would be very focused on, and this is going to sound kind of opposite of what you said, but with a one-year-old, the best thing you can do for him is to make sure you're doing and being the best person you can be. so what does that look like for you financially making sure you're out of debt making sure you're able to pour into him uh financially and help with college making sure you're setting yourself up in such a way that it's so healthy with you that all that health gets onto him does that make sense yes and so that leads me to my next question which is how are you doing financially like are Are you paying off debt?

1:19:31Like, where are you in this whole thing? So my husband and I, we make just north of$90 ,000 a year. I don't have any student loans or credit card loans. I actually had a free ride to school, and my Ph.D. was paid for by the school. That's awesome. The only debt that we do have is we do have two car loans. Our cars took a crap, for lack of better words, and so we do have two car loans, but that's the only debt that we have. What do those car loans add up to? What's the, give me both balances. So my car is at$18 ,000 and his car is at$21 ,000. Okay. And what are the monthly payments on that? One is$381 a month and the other one is$481.

1:20:20So when I see that number, all I see is future investing. That's$860 that could be invested if we got rid of this debt. You see what we're doing here? Yes. Can I show you what$860 would be if you invested it from when your child turns 2 to 18? Sure. You ready to blow your mind? $400 ,000. Yeah, that's going to be a lot. Hope you like the car. Yes, yes. So you're asking us, how do I say for my kid's college, it's getting rid of your debt so that you free up that money? Because right now, do you have$860 extra to invest? I mean, not if we're paying car loans. Exactly. And the thing is, for most Americans, I mean, we're not trying to single you out.

1:21:06Most Americans, this is the cycle. It is a revolving door. I drive this car for a while. It gets old. Something happens. I trade it in for another car, and I have another car payment. Drive that for a while. Something happens. I trade it in. And they have a car payment for their entire life. Think about it. How can you save up for a car when you've got the car payment? Taking up what you would have saved. So eventually you have to break the cycle and drive the crappy car while saving up for a car, you know, that you really want, the upgrade car that you do in cash. So, I mean, you got$40 ,000 in vehicles making$90 ,000.

1:21:36That is up there. It's on a tipping point, yeah. So you may want to consider selling one if you are not bringing any – are you working right now while doing the Ph.D. or is that full-time? So my Ph.D. gives me a stipend. So I'm paid through school as well. So that's half of our income, and then my husband makes the other half. Okay. So now the question is, how do we up both of your incomes? When is your PhD done and what will you be making? So I have two more years left, and it depends on what I go into. I'm not entirely sure. It's estimated to be just north of$100 ,000, but it really depends on where you work, what company and what city that you're in.

1:22:14And I can't really make those decisions quite yet. Sure. And what about him? What's he doing? He's a medical technician. He 3D prints surgical implants. Okay. So I'd be, the way I'd put it in our brains, if I sat down tonight and was talking with my husband about this very thing, I'd say, if we can't commit to getting these cars paid off in 18 months or less, I think that we should consider selling one of them. That would be my kind of thing to bring to the table. And that way you're saying, hey, we know that there's a level of urgency here, but we're also allowing space for us to keep these vehicles if we really want to work hard to keep them.

1:22:56But what I wouldn't do is try to do all of this at once. Try to invest. Try to pay off the debt. We need some focus intensity now to just pay off all of your consumer debt, build up a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, be investing 15 percent of your household income into your retirement accounts, and then money left over gets invested for the kids' college. Okay. And you're probably going, wait, money left over? That's what happens when you're debt free and you guys will be making north of six figures. So I'm not as worried about junior. I'm more worried about the present you.

1:23:28Right. Because even if you start investing when he's four years old to 18, yeah, you'll have to invest a little more to make up for some lost time and compound growth. But I mean even let's say four years old to 18, if you invest 500 bucks a month, he'll have 181 grand. That's at a 10 % return over those 14 years. And that's assuming he gets no scholarships and he just got to pay that. And then on top of that, think about how much more money you guys will be making 14 years from now, 15 years from now. And so you'll be able to cash flow. He might get scholarships and grants. He can work part time.

1:23:59So there's a lot of things that he can do to avoid student debt. But all of this is predicated on you guys creating a financial foundation for yourselves. Yeah. So the moral of the story, not just for you, Kara, but for anybody listening, the way that we love our family well, whether it's our kids or thinking about the future, is we have to have our personal financial life in order. How many calls do we get, George, where it's my parents didn't do what they were supposed to do. So now I'm 40 years old and I'm having to pay for kids college plus their care and do all this. If you can decide today, you know what, I want to break that cycle.

1:24:34I want my kids to be set up. It starts with you. It's not in the DNA. You can break the cycle. And so it is possible. And the account to invest in is a 529 plan for education, or you can do an education savings account. Those are both great options to invest and you're going to get some tax-free education.

1:25:05welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm george camill joined by jade warshaw free call at 888-825-5225 ken is in tallahassee up next what's going on ken welcome Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's your question? So I'm looking for some guidance. My wife and I, we had left our jobs about two years ago, and we both opened two businesses, both of which have done pretty well. Over the past two years, we've really aggressively attacked all of our debt except our mortgage and one investment property. Good. Now we're at the point where we're trying to determine if we should go ahead and pay off the investment property that we purchased, which has an interest rate of 5.99.

1:25:54We owe about$223 ,000 on it. Or should we start aggressively contributing towards retirement accounts for O &K, whatever we can do to set ourselves up for retirement? Okay. Are you currently investing 15 % into retirement every month? We have not started anything for retirement whatsoever. Okay. Do you have the three to six months of expenses saved? We have$82 ,000 saved right now, yes. Okay. And how many months of savings is that? How many months? Well, we make about$360 ,000 a year, combined net. okay and is that is that aside uh that's personal money like for your personal life that's not your business savings accounts and retained earnings right no that's that's our that's our personal money yes that's great okay so i would just walk this through the baby steps which is it sounds like you've kind of already done uh and just to recap for anybody listening baby step one you're getting a thousand dollars saved baby step two it sounds like you've done you pay off all of your debt except the mortgage.

1:27:06And then baby step three, you save up three to six months of expenses. You've done that. Then baby step four is you're investing 15 % of your gross income every single month. And once you're doing that, it's kind of like, that's the set it and forget it. I know that that portion of retirement is going to be taken care of. Now I can look up and do things like if you want to put a little aside for kids college, if you want to pay extra mortgage payments, right? Some of the things that you're talking about. So as long as you're doing the 15%, I would invest in paying off some of this real estate.

1:27:36However, I would be looking at what's the best way for your primary mortgage to be debt-free quickest. What's left on that? And that's my biggest question because our mortgage payment on our homesteads,$2 ,200 a month, our interest rate is super low. So my question there would be, do we pay aggressively towards the investment property, which has a 5.99 rate? What's the balance of your current mortgage? Yeah. What's the balance of the homestead? About$323 ,000. So since that's where your bodies lay down to sleep every night, that's the equation I want to solve for is how can we make that debt free first?

1:28:18Because my thought for that is no matter what the situation, whenever people have an emergency, a hard time, whether somebody's laid off, whether there's a diagnosis, the number one thing that people want to keep – the number one thing people care about is I want to keep my house. I don't want anything to come between me and keeping my house, right? So that's why that's the first thing. Whereas if you get in a pinch, you could sell the investment property. Yes. I don't want you to have to sell your home to do that because of the mortgage payment. So I'm not concerned about interest rates, Ken.

1:28:53You guys make so much money that it's negligible. What I would do is start investing that 15 % today because that is, what,$54 ,000,$4 ,500 a month? And so even though you're starting from zero, I'll give you the math here on our investment calculator. You can jump on our website and use it. We'll drop a link in the description for this. But from$38 to$65 ,000, you guys invest$4 ,500 a month. You never make more than$360 ,000. At 10 % return on average, you'll have$7.4 million. Okay. So when you say invest, are you referring to like a brokerage and index funds and all that? This isn't any type of investment account that utilizes compound growth.

1:29:31And so this could be retirement. I would do retirement accounts. So the way we look at it is there's kind of a water flow approach. If you have an employer match, we're going to go there first. Then we're going to take all the Roth accounts we can get. Now, with your income being so high, you may want to utilize traditional. What's that? Since you own your businesses. So you could do solo 401ks? Are there employees in the business, or is it just you guys? My business is a solo. I'm the only owner. and then my wife and I's business, me and her and one other employee. Okay. I would, for yours, it's easier to set up for hers.

1:30:08I would probably work with somebody to make sure you're structuring it the right way. But yeah, I would start that immediately. That's your project for next week. And then... Right now, you just haven't been because you just don't know. And you guys are super smart people. Very successful. And it's pretty easy to know. And there's pro guidance that I would suggest. You can jump on RamseySolutions.com. click on SmartVest or Pro, they'll dig into your situation and help you decide, hey, for your situation, for your wife, she should do a SEP IRA for her business, and you should do a solo 401k, for example.

1:30:39And that'll allow you, you can actually put in way more into a solo 401k, because you're the employee and the employer. So you can contribute on both sides and really make some headway to start investing. And I would just work on extra mortgage payments outside of that. Do you guys have kids? We have three total. Two are grown. The youngest is 11. Okay. So I'd be putting some money away for college. I mean, hopefully you guys will be able to cashflow the rest, but a 529 plan would be a great place to sock away extra money and just kind of set a goal for that. Again, a smart investor pro can help you set that goal from 11 to 18.

1:31:14We want to have, you know, six figures in this account by then. You might be able to kind of super fund it just in the next year and then set it and forget it. So there's a lot of strategies you can do here. But the main thing is, let's start putting money aside for the future with compound growth. And let's start knocking out your primary mortgage. And then eventually, my guess is if you follow our plan, within five years, all of your debt will be paid off. So don't even worry about the investment property? Well, I wanted to ask about that. I mean, how married are you to it? Because my mind immediately goes to, what's this thing worth?

1:31:45Because if I can pull... It's a long-term rental. It pays for itself. I understand that, but I would run that out and go, okay, it might pay for itself. How much profit are we really earning off of it? And what's it worth? Because if we sold this thing and if we could walk away with a significant amount of chunk of change that we could turn around and pay off the homestead very quickly, that would be very enticing to me. Because now you've freed up the$2 ,200 a month that you're paying for the homestead. Well, how quickly could you? Is that money that you want to turn around and invest and get a probably higher rate of return?

1:32:16or would you want to sink it back into real estate that maybe you're just breaking even on month to month? No, we have some equity. I just don't think it's a ton. What are you actually making off of this thing per year after all of your expenses? It's about$600 a month after expenses. Man, that's not much compared to your whole income. I know. No. What's it worth? It's more of an investment to have later on, I guess. Are you guys going to live there one day? no no i guess something that we would just have on the side and sell later on i mean it's less than two percent of your household income so you gotta ask yourself is it more than two percent of the headaches in my life maybe what do you what's it worth if you did sell it i'm just curious would you what would it bring um 275 maybe okay so not a whole lot 280 no yeah you know it would be something i'd continue to watch it and if it starts going up in value and it's it becomes enticing to you and it does make sense to maybe offload that in order to free up the homestead, I would definitely do that deal when it's time.

1:33:21Thanks for the call, Ken. Again, that's ramsysolutions.com. Click on SmartVestor Pro and they'll help you craft a plan for all of this because you guys make so much money. Let's put it to good use.

1:33:53Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:34:43Bree is in Santa Barbara up next. What's going on, Bree? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can Jade and I help? Hey, I'm calling because I am a first two-year-old single mom, and I work as a teacher and I live in a pretty expensive area of California and I'm feeling really good actually about where I'm at financially, especially considering I had many years of being very low income. And I guess I'm kind of at a point where I'm not really sure what I'm saving for. I put away money every month towards saving and I have been since I started my first day as a teacher every year, increasing the amount that I put.

1:35:25And I just have about$60 ,000 saved up. Wow. You know, continuing to save every month. And I also am really careful with my budget and how I spend my money. And I guess I kind of am not really sure why I'm doing it. And I guess I want to understand what amount of money should I be putting towards saving versus allowing myself to live a little bit of a more enjoyable life financially on the day-to-day. I love this question because I think that anybody who's really had to scrap to get to where they are, you get in the mindset of, like, it's like a robot. I take the money, I put it over here, and I don't even question anything else.

1:36:07And then it feels like you've done something bad. If you don't do that or if you spend it, you feel guilty. So let's try to free you from that today. So you don't have any consumer debt? No, other than my mortgage, my home. Great. It's so good. You've got a mortgage and you've got 60K. That's just all of your savings? Does that include your emergency fund? That's all wrapped up in there? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've got about like$6 ,000 in the bank, I guess. Okay. That's kind of your checking account money. Have you started investing yet? What's that? Have you started investing? Oh, yeah. That's in an investment account.

1:36:38Oh, okay. So it's not as liquid. It's not sitting in a high-yield savings or anything. So how much do you have in a high-yield savings account or in a savings account that's liquid? I don't have anything in a high-yield savings account. It's all in like a brokerage account. Oh, that scares me a little bit because if you had an emergency, you'd have to just sell that off no matter what's going on in the market. I would, but I also like I have I have other sources like I could talk to my parents. I could talk to family members if I needed to. Let's fix that. Let's fix that. I think I heard you say that you're a teacher, right?

1:37:11I am. How come you're not investing through your work into a 401k? because usually there's an automatic kind of amount that goes yeah no there's there's nothing i that i'm aware of at least through my job that i can invest is this a normal school system i've just never heard of a school system that doesn't have a retirement plan uh double check that for me retirement plan it's separate though so i don't even know what's in my retirement plan because i don't consider that savings i consider that just my retirement okay so let's let's let's help you with that. So that what you have, that retirement plan is awesome.

1:37:48And that's the number one way people build wealth is through their employer sponsored retirement account. Okay. So if you have a 403B, which it sounds like you do, my guess is there's a percentage of your income that's automatically going into that as a teacher. Am I wrong? No, you're correct. I don't know if it's called a 403B. Um, it's, but it is like a teacher retirement account in California. I think it's a little different. Do you know how much goes into that every month? About$600 a month, but it also increases every year as I earn more. Okay. So the goal that we want to get to is for you to be investing a total of 15 % of your gross income.

1:38:26So the math that you can do tonight is to say, okay, that 600, what percentage of my gross income is that? So let's say it's 10%. And then you go, okay, I need to add X amount of dollars in order to get this to 15. That's thing one. Once you're doing that, it's like, okay, I can set that and forget it. I know that if I continue to do this, when the day of my retirement comes, I'm gonna be set. And a way to really feel good about that is to go on the Ramsey Investment Calculator and just plug in your numbers and say, well, okay, today I'm 32. If I keep doing this until age 62, the$600 or however much you increase it towards, here's what I'll retire with.

1:39:03That's gonna make you feel amazing. and then it's going to free you up to be able to spend money in other ways when the time comes. What's really on fire for me today is the fact that you don't have liquid money in a high-yield savings account. And that needs to probably happen immediately. So I probably told you that a little bit out of order, but I wanted you to understand that you did have employer-sponsored retirement at your disposal. Yeah. And with a high-yield savings account, how much do you recommend putting in that? Three to six months of expenses. You're a single mom, and so I'd feel better if you had six months, as close to six months as possible.

1:39:41And you have that now in that brokerage account, so I would just sell off that much and be aware if there's any capital gain taxes on that. But take that out, put it in a high-yield savings account, and then keep it liquid. I know it's not making as much as you could be in the market, but it's not to be invested. It is insurance against you having to go into debt ever again. So you'll feel a whole lot better having that liquid at the ready. And then beyond that, if you want to put a little money away for the kids' college, how old are they? My son is 12. I do put money towards his college fund every month.

1:40:11I think like$12 ,000 or so is saved up at this point. I don't aggressively put money into it. So that's in addition to the$60 ,000 I have in investment. So you may want to make a goal to put a little more in there, and you can use an investment calculator to figure out, hey, here's how much an in-state public school would be in this area if they choose to go there. and try your best to get there. You don't have to cash flow the whole thing. That's not your obligation, but it'll help them avoid student loan debt, which is a huge crisis in America today. So that's one goal for your money is to put more towards college.

1:40:43You can always put more toward the mortgage. And then of course, budget a little more. The mortgage is such a low interest rate though. Like I was able to buy about five years ago and so my interest is 2.63. And so it feels like if I had the option between investing, I would just get a lot more return for my money if I was to put it in an investment account rather than pay the mortgage off early. That's true, but you have to think about where you'd wanna be when the day comes and you can no longer work. Because if you continue to let your 403B through your teaching continue to grow and accumulate, like I said, do that homework tonight because it's gonna change your mindset because the time is gonna come when you can't work anymore and you're gonna look up and you're gonna go, man, I don't wanna be paying my mortgage out of my retirement every single month.

1:41:25It'd be so great to maybe have a slightly smaller nest egg, which it probably, you know, it will be negligible and also have a paid off mortgage. Does that make sense? Okay. So that's why we teach it that way. But we never asked you, how much do you make every year? About$75 ,000. Okay. And I put away about$700 per month into investment accounts. And then the rest I use for expenses. I mean, I live like a decent life, you know, it's not like I'm penny pinching at every corner. But I also, you know, there's extras that I choose not to do because it wouldn't, you know, stay within my budget. What do you want to do?

1:42:04If I snap my fingers. I want to hire somebody to deep clean my house once a month. Love it. Because, like, I just won't do it. Great. And I want it done. What does that cost you in California? It might be a couple hundred bucks. Okay. Say$250. So you can, you know, set up an every dollar budget, use the app, and just put line item, house cleaning,$250. Okay. That's it. And you guys, if I do all these calculations and I make sure I got my 15%, you think it's okay to kind of loosen the purse strings a little bit? I wouldn't be investing in the brokerage account at this point. That is sort of like a baby step seven, house is paid off, I've run out of other investment options.

1:42:45You're going to be fine. You're so young doing so well that I would be more focused on making sure I'm investing 15 % into retirement, making sure my kid's college is covered, making sure the mortgage gets paid off. and then allow some spending money for Brie. You've earned it. You're working your tail off. You probably need to be closer to around$900,$930 investing every month. I think you said you're at six or seven. So bump that up to the right amount. Like I said, somewhere between$900 and$930. And then from there on, if you're doing all those things that George talked about, you're in your baby step, you're doing those things correctly, 100%.

1:43:21The whole purpose of doing this is so that you can enjoy your money And so that you can spend, it is live like no one else. So later you can live like no one else. And for you, it's simple things like having a house cleaner. So as long as it fits in the budget and it's not causing you to have to pull from investments, it's not causing you to have to forsake your kid's college fund. It's not causing you to have to, you know, have no money ever to put extra on your mortgage, right? Then it's fine. It's good. And it's worth your sanity. Thank you. You're crushing it, Brie. Thank you so much, you guys.

1:43:53Thank you for the call. You're a hero. That's very impressive. What you're doing. 32, single mom. Yeah. Debt free in California. Right. And I love that she rode out the storm of starting out low income and really pushing and pushing to get to where she is now. That is so gratifying. I'm so proud of her.

1:44:33When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90 % of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

1:45:12It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

1:45:39Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? If private student loan default knocked you off track, this is how you reset. Why Refi works with borrowers, other lenders won't. Helping you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate so you can get back on the plan and move forward. Visit yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All righty. Today's question comes from Ian in Wisconsin. He says, is it okay to use buy now, pay later plans? As long as you have the cash available to buy the item outright.

1:46:14I'm making a large purchase and have cash to pay for it today. but I want to pay it on payments to soften the blow to my bank account. I've already got the payments worked out into my every dollar budget, so I don't see why this isn't a legitimate reason for using the method. Okay, this is wild, but I want to kind of validate what you're thinking. I think all of us feel the pain of seeing a nice cushy number in our bank account, and then we decide we wanna do a major purchase like a car or a golf cart or whatever. And the feeling of seeing, I don't know, a balance of$40 ,000 go down to$5 ,000 is like, oh, it's like a shot to the heart, okay?

1:46:59Yes, validating that. However, the whole purpose of managing your money well is to be able to pay cash in actual money for the things that you want. So don't discount your hard work and all that you've done to set yourself up to be able to do this by then turning around and saying, ah, I'm just gonna put myself in a financial risk in order to get this. You have the cash. And buy now, pay later, George is so dangerous because it really does mess with your psyche because you think, oh, well, this is really not that much. And it goes little by little by little. And then it opens up the door to, oh, this is kind of nice.

1:47:36I'm only paying. Well, it's the old put it on my tab. And you go, well, it's only four bucks here, five bucks there, 10 bucks here. And then it becomes a habit where you go, well, if I needed to, I could pay it all off today. And then you lose your job. Well, then you try it with something else. You go, oh, that kind of felt nice. Now I'm going to get this guitar. Now I'm going to do that. Now I'm doing an appliance. Oh, boy. And now you're no better than the guy doing, you know, 0 % financing on a freaking couch at Ashley Furniture. Yeah. This gets worse and worse. Ian, this is just, it's broke people mentality.

1:48:00And the truth is, if it softens the blow to your bank account, that means you probably just shouldn't buy it. If it like hurts your soul a little bit to part with that much money. Yeah, that's true. That's your brain and body telling you, hey, this is a lot of money. Are we sure we want to do this? And what buy now, pay later really does, it just desensitizes your brain to go, ah, it's fine, bud. It's like a little devil on your shoulder. Going, put it on for payments, guy. You got it. You deserve it. You worked hard. I think you worked too hard to be this broke, playing broke people games. Yeah, that is so good, George.

1:48:29These predatory companies. Broke people mentality. And these are such predatory companies. They're praying that you can't make the payment so they can ding you with fees and interest. Yeah. They're no better than the credit card companies out there. And their marketing touts it like, we are the best alternative to credit cards. We're here to be your savior. You know what I think is going on here? This just hit me. This is what I think. I think that he probably has a lump sum of money saved, and it's probably earmarked for something else. But he has this big purchase that he wants to make, and he's like, well, I could do it on buy now, pay later, because the truth is, if something happened, I could pay for it.

1:49:03But if the money wasn't earmarked for that, then that's probably why it doesn't feel good. I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know if I'm right, but that's the sense that I'm getting. Yeah. The bottom line is you can't build for the future while paying for the past. So if you got anything behind you in the rearview mirror, what are you doing? You're just wasting brain calories thinking about the payments you – there's enough things to worry about in this life. Debt is not one of them. And that's all it is. It's a micro debt is what you're signing up for. And if you read the fine print, they'll tell you.

1:49:30All right, Ian. Thanks for the question. That was a fun rant. Rant over. JR is in Atlanta up next. What's going on, JR? Hey, George and Jade. I was just calling because me and my wife just built a house and we moved in at Christmas time. And we love the house. We don't like the lifestyle that the payment is going to make us live. Oh, no. Well, our priorities changed from the time we started the process to now. Like my wife works. She runs her own business. And I got moved into the house and I just realized I want my wife to be able to stay at home with our kids. Oh, no. Based on our current payment, I, on my own job, could not pay for the payment without her continuing to work.

1:50:15So I'm wondering what we should do next to kind of mitigate that risk. I mean, we are willing to live with the consequences that we have made for ourselves, but we would like an option. How can you? Because if she's staying home and you can't cover it on your income, you can't stay in that house. Well, sorry. She would obviously have to continue to work. And we're okay with her continuing to work if we have to, but if we have an option to do something else, I would love an outside opinion. Okay. I'll pitch that question back to you. So you tell me, tell me what your mortgage is every single month.

1:50:48With the escrow, it's around$2 ,500 a month. $2 ,500. Okay. And if you, if your wife stopped working, what percentage of your take home would that mortgage become? About 50%. Okay. So, and then you've told me, hey, also, not only would it be 50%, but I just wouldn't even be able to cover the payment at all. So, you tell me what the option is. I think either we're going to have to let her continue to work and pay down the house and possibly refinance, or I get a better paying job, or we move. I think those are really the only three options. None of them are great. Yes. Okay. I just wanted you to say it so that I wasn't the bad guy.

1:51:33Right. And the truth is you finding more work that that's the thing that maybe allows you to kind of have the best of both worlds here. How likely is that to happen with my current career? It's probably not very likely I'm working on getting a CPA license. So when I finish that, I probably could make it more realistic to cover all of our bills and the mortgage. But in my current career field, it's pretty unlikely. What's the timeline on the CPA deal? um probably about a year i can sit for my first exams this summer and will you be making six figures right out the gate um where i live cpas are starting between 70 and 80 okay so that still won't get us there i mean that well we need like a take-home pay more like you know nine ten grand to make this make sense for you guys to carry this mortgage payment for the next decade right Right.

1:52:29So then the other option is if we can't get the income up, then we might need to move once your wife decides to stay home. Right. So I don't think anything's like on fire. But if you know, do you guys have kids now? Yes, we have we have two very small children. OK. Is there more on the way or is this it? We would love to have some more, but we've kind of pushed pause on that until we can get our financials in order. OK. What's the house worth? uh we had it uh a real estate agent come and look it was worth about 475 and you owe how much uh a little over 300 okay so you do have some good equity in there there's some good news in this picture there's also the idea of her working part-time maybe it's not an all or nothing thing but it's i pick up these extra hours you become the cpa do you see what i'm saying maybe it's the combination and we kind of go hey there's a year horizon on this for the next year you you You work and it's not ideal, but then once I can get into my CPA role, you can back down to part-time and that should close the gap.

1:53:34And then I can continue to grow my income and you can fully step away. There might be kind of like a very gradual transition that you can do. Okay. That makes good sense. Yeah, that could be a good idea. Do you guys have debt outside of the mortgage? We owe about$8 ,000 to the IRS, but other than that, we are debt-free. Okay. And what's your wife making the business? After taxes, she's probably doing between$130 and$150. Whoa. So she's the breadwinner here. Yes. Okay. But she's the one who wants to stay home. That's her dream? I would love for her to stay home. I think she wants to be home more, but I think she would be okay with working part-time.

1:54:18I would love for her to have the option to not work at all. It sounds like part time is the move then because she said her wish seems to be like, I don't want to be totally out, but I do want to be home more. That feels like the ticket because what you don't want is to tell somebody who wants to work a little bit that they can't work because then they're going to feel trapped. It's the same. It can go either way. You also don't want to tell somebody who wants to stay home. Hey, you got to go to work because then they're going to feel trapped there. So I think that you guys still have some conversations to have around this and you have time.

1:54:49I would just set a timeline of like, hey, let's revisit this six months, a year from now and see where we're at. Is it feasible for you to go part time? Can you just stop working altogether based on what I'm making as a CPA now? And I hope I really hope you guys get the dream of first staying home and you get to keep the house. That's obviously best case scenario, but it's going to take some sacrifice on both of your parts.

1:55:18and thank you for your time and um

1:55:26hold on let's go Thank you. Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey-trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price.

1:55:54Go to RamseySolutions.com slash insurance, RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:56:20All right, Jade, it's time for our scripture of the day. You know it. Sing it with me. I'm singing it with you. Ecclesiastes 712. The protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it. Wow. I might need to read that again. Okay. Wow. I'll do it on my own time. Yeah, that'll take me a while to chew on. Old Solomon there is long in the tooth. A.A. Latimer said, A budget is a mathematical confirmation of your suspicions. I love that so much. That's great. I wish I had one of those names. You know what I mean? Like A.A.

1:56:55Latimer, G.K. Chesterton. I call you G.K. Yeah, I think G.K., but then you got to have a nice, long, cool name. What's your middle name? It's Peter. It's not that exciting. yeah exactly gp camel that's not hard to say does it roll off the tongue no one's reading that guy's novel gp camel i'll work on it i'll workshop it all right michelle is in springfield illinois what's going on michelle hey guys hey i am calling to find out about retirement um how to when when the time comes How does that work when you withdraw, you guys say 10%, if you can live off of 10%, how do you do that? Is it you withdraw like the 10 % and then hold back taxes, or do you withdraw like 90 % and leave the taxes in there, pull it out when it's time to pay?

1:57:53Oh, boy. So let's roll back. Let's back it up, Terry. Let's go here to your age. What's your current age? 56. Okay. And you're talking about like 59 and a half plus is when you're going to be pulling from retirement? Yeah, plus. Okay. What kind of retirement accounts do you have right now? Just my 401k. Is it traditional or Roth 401k? Traditional. Because when we got a Roth one, I felt it was too late to change it over. Okay. So the only retirement account you have is the traditional 401k? Yeah. Other than the kids is 529. Right. grandkids 529. Okay. How much is in there? In which one? The 401k, the traditional 401k.

1:58:38253. Okay. And you're wanting to, so let me, let me roll back to what you first said, which is you guys say, you know, if you have 10 % that you're earning, you can live off the interest. That really is a rule of thumb to kind of be thinking about, do I have enough to retire? It's not precise. It's not prescriptive to say you should withdraw 10 % every month. No, it's just a way to think, hey, how do I kind of know that I'm in the realm that I might be ready and might have enough? So I want to be clear on that. And I want to know if you're working with a SmartVestor Pro at all, or are you just doing this all yourself?

1:59:10I am newly. I actually go and do my one year check at the end of April. Okay. What I would do is at the next meeting, I would say, how much do you think that I need to and that I'm able to pull from this 401k to maintain my current lifestyle and what I would do is I would come to that appointment with my current budget and I would say here's what I'm spending every single month and here's what I receive you know or will receive from social security and have all those numbers and then start projecting what would it look like for me to pull x amount of dollars how much taxes would that be for me every year and just ask how we're going to do that and what that's going to look like so that you can begin to understand it and see if you agree or not with that strategy.

2:00:03Okay. And they can project this all out to show you, hey, if you withdrew, let's say$60 ,000 total per year in retirement based on what you have in the nest egg, here's likely where you'd end up. Here's when the money might run out or here's how much you might have left over. And they can run all kinds of projections to give you a big picture. Because the truth is, we don't know what the future holds. We just know what history has shown us, which is that the stock market, on average, produced about 10%, 11%. So based on that, you've got to take into account inflation, and then you've got to take into account your actual expenses versus what your nest egg is.

2:00:38So how much are you investing per month right now? 15%. Of? What's the total number? um it's like what's your income 981 a month i think okay and you do you have an employer match uh yes okay so how much extra is that on top of the 981 um it's three percent um let's call it another hundred two hundred bucks i'm so sorry that's okay i'm just guesstimating for you and you said you had 250 000 in retirement yeah yeah okay so if you can keep contributing that$1 ,100 in there from$56 to, let's say,$65? Is that your game plan? Yeah, four more. Okay. Let's put it$67. That puts you at a million bucks in that nest egg, and that's with a 10 % return.

2:01:28So then the question becomes, all right, from$67, let's say you live a good long life to$97. We got 30 years to utilize this million bucks plus Social Security. And so they can then help you map out a plan for withdrawal. Obviously, you don't need to do that right now. We don't know what the future holds, but I would just keep, I'd rather have too much than not enough. You know what I mean? Sure. Keep bumping it up as much as you can. So hopefully you get your income up over time, you get the house paid off, then we increase and start maxing out these accounts and you'll have well over a million plus Social Security.

2:01:58That should give you a nice comfortable life. So thank you for the call. It's a great question. It's a good way to think about it. You're on the path to become a Baby Steps millionaire. Eliana is in Chicago. What's going on with you? Yes, hi. So I have$11 ,000 in stock. I have$4 ,000 cash. But I also have a 2006 Chevy. And I have like four options to use the money. And$8 ,000 credit card debt with no interest until September. Okay. So my question is where to spend it. I have four options. One, my home is a 1940 house, so I don't have AC. I have window, which costs me a lot of money during the summer.

2:02:52I have the old-fashioned heat that costs me a lot of gas. My estimate to install an AC with heating and plum was$10 ,000, the quote. Okay. And then my kids were invited by their grandparents to our homeland, which cost around$10 ,000. And they're going to pay for their tickets. But I have to be with them. So that would set me back at least$4 ,000. Just cost them tickets. Okay. So you could do... Okay. I also, I think I need a new car. And I got a really nice deal. but the car is going to cost me$16 ,000 that I don't have so I'm thinking of not paying the whole credit card and it's the car because it's estimated for$24 ,000.

2:03:44It's not a deal if you can't afford it though. What's the deal? I can't even afford the insurance for the car. You can't do that. So that's not an option. What's the deal with your current car? You said you had a car. Do you owe anything on it? Is it worth something? Tell us about the current car. Last year, I returned my Jeep Wrangler because it was lease to own and it had a lot of recalls and I couldn't pay the maintenance$1 ,000 a year. I couldn't pay that. So I got a 2006 Chevy and it's fine, but because it's approaching 200 ,000 miles and my work is to go with therapist house to house. I'm afraid it's going to break down and I'll need a new car.

2:04:29Has it broken down? No. Okay. I maintain it. So we're justifying a new car purchase based on the fact that once a car goes over 200 ,000 miles, they apparently die no matter what. Or it's going to start breaking down and I don't want to buy a car out of me. Well, let's deal with our current problems versus the future ones that could and might happen. The current problem is we've got$8 ,000 in credit card debt that we can pay off today by selling off the stocks, right? Yes. So you've got$15 ,000 total liquid. Paying off the credit card brings us down to$7 ,000, right? Yes. And now the question is, what's the priority?

2:05:07You having AC as we enter the summer or going on a trip that you could go on at another time? I could go on another time, but it's going to cost me an extra$10 ,000. And I don't even care for the trip. Is it because the kids won't be covered? I would just tell them, hey, I can't afford to go on the trip because I have to go with them. I have to cover my share. I'm in a pickle here. I don't have AC. My car is on the fritz. I got credit card debt. And that's it. And so you prioritize the things that matter to your family right now the most, which is getting out of debt. Let's get the AC. Let's get an emergency fund so that we get out of this cycle.

2:05:43That is the only path I would recommend out. Right now, a trip is a luxury that you don't have, Eliana. Thank you for the call. All right, that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.