Don’t Let Other People’s Opinions Derail Your Future

24:36Let me tell you another weird thing. And I'm sure there's a psychological trope to this. Your body, and I say that not being cheesy, what feels busy to you will be established pretty early. So if you just go say, I'm going to live the first semester off my savings, and I'm just going to go get the feel of college, I'm going to take my 15 hours, and I'm going to go to the, join an intramural team, which again, I think that's important too, but like, I'm going to go do these things. You're going to feel busy. And then second semester comes and you want to add a part-time job. You're going to start to ask, I don't even know where to put this, but if you start with a part-time job and one of the things you do after move in and after freshman orientation is you go find a job at a local place and you start work and your body will adapt to what is busy and you will begin to make things work and you already have savings.

25:27So I can already tell you're not afraid to work and you're a good thinker and you're a good doer. So go ahead and go out of the gate, man. And you can always back off. But it's much harder when you already feel busy to add something else to it.

25:39Dave Ramsey:Good point. So the answer to your question is, yes, work part time. And an even better answer to the question is work part time in the field that you think you're going to move towards. Or somewhere close, right? Yeah, something where you get, you know, different. I mean, if you're going to be in banking, don't be waiting tables if you've got the option. Waiting tables is not bad, though. But if you're going to be in the restaurant business, certainly do that. but just figure out where we're going in general and aim at that. Try to land in there, but if nothing else, white tables. That's okay, too.

26:05Dave Ramsey:So the data that we had when we were doing the student loan documentary that we did, the debacle called Borrowed Future, the student loan debacle, the documentary wasn't a debacle. It was a number one documentary, and you can still watch it out there on YouTube for free, folks. But one of the things we found, there is data that says that there's a higher probability graduating in four years when you're paying for some or all of it, not with student loans out of your pocket, and if you're working. And that student athletes who hold down what is a full-time job as a student athlete in the NCAA and go to school and graduate in four years have a work ethic far beyond the guy who majors in beer pong.

26:52Dave Ramsey:and uh and so same thing with student athletes same thing with somebody working and so our point was is that you can work and earn enough to go to a state school while working you can stay full-time and work full-time and here's where that you don't have to do that in your case well and Dave this is awesome I love this conversation there is data that says if you work it may have an adverse it may impact negatively a tiny bit your GPA if you have a full-time job if you have a part-time job where you're very, very busy. But the goal of going to college is not to maximize, I don't think. I think it's to come out having learned and prepared and be ready to enter the workforce and go get them.

27:34It's not to see how high you can get your GPA. And so we used to have a joke among my buddies who were running businesses and hiring that I will take off the top, the 4.0s, because I'm just going to assume you didn't live in college, right? And that was a joke. And of course we didn't hold to that but if i have to hire somebody who's a 4-0 who's never had a job they just went to class all day and somebody has a 3-5-6 and worked full-time and got their butt out of college in four years i'm going to hire them every day to sunday because i know that they can handle a whole bunch of stuff coming at the same time and get their work done and provide and they have a work ethic that's right so go get that stuff done man go get it great question the answer

28:12Dave Ramsey:is yes i'd work while you're in school um i wouldn't make it mandatory for somebody but But if you're asking if you should, Brian, I think you should. Yes. Bryce is in Huntsville. Hey, Bryce, what's up in your world? Hey, thanks for talking with me today. Sure. How can we help? So I'm 22 years old. I just graduated college with my master's in IT field. I worked all through college. I'm on Baby Step 3B. And I'm in a long-distance relationship, saving up for an engagement ring, slash what I'll call import taxes, since my girlfriend's not from around here. And my question is, is how should I prioritize, you know, saving for a house, engagement and retirement?

28:55And, you know, should I do that all at once? Should I consider bumping up to my 15 % and saving for those other things or just keep it where I'm at now? What are you making? um so i'm salaried i make 88 and i get um pretty much guaranteed bonuses of about 17

29:16Dave Ramsey:so a little over 100 yeah very good straight out of school congratulations well done thank you and i suspect that's probably on its way up it's not going to stay there very long right that's correct yeah i would say your first priority is don't ever call your girlfriend and import tax again i'll just start there that's just because i love you man i would just not do that on a national podcast that everybody listens to yeah yeah work could get back and yeah yeah then you would be not having a girlfriend so there you go and now they get rid of that problem yeah all right one less issue and all right so yeah i i think on the short term you if you didn't do anything intellectually stimulating, like long-term investing in any of that, on the short term, if you just piled up some cash to start your life over the next year, that wouldn't hurt anything.

30:10Dave Ramsey:You're already debt-free. If you pile up some cash for a down payment, a wedding, a ring, and that's all you do for one year, that's not bad. That's a big win. It's not bad. That keeps you out of debt on any of those things. And then if you want to start adding, if you think you're hitting those goals pretty easily and you want to add some long-term investing now because you're at baby step four. But if you just piled up cash for an entire year for wedding ring, wedding a ring. And the import tax. And I just can't even say that. And whatever the other thing was, the house. Oh, my God. Yeah, you're going to be okay.

30:49Dave Ramsey:Unless he gets struck by lightning first. Ouch.

31:22well good luck because you're just another line on their spreadsheet. So here's the thing when I was buying my home I didn't want to just be a loan number I wanted a relationship with a real person someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast and that's why I love Churchill Mortgage. They don't rush you they don't try to sell you more house than you need they listen they walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford. So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt-free.

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32:29Dave Ramsey:If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you're feeling like you can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free every dollar trainings. We're going to show you how to handle money, folks. These are new trainings every week, and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. So that would be Jade or George or Rachel will be there. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, how to put one together. And on average, people find$9 ,000 worth of margin using EveryDollar. That means you can make that kind of movement almost like a head start kind of thing. Yeah. So check that out.

33:05Dave Ramsey:It's free. It's EveryDollar.com slash webinar. And there's Q &A that's live too, which is kind of like being on the show in a way, right? So EveryDollar.com slash webinar. It's free. We're doing them all the time with Ramsey Personalities. be sure and check one of them out immediately. Amy's in Spokane. Hi, Amy. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me. Sure. How can we help? Okay. So I have a bit of a situation. So currently I'm a teacher and I make about like$56 ,000 a year. Recently I applied to work with my state as a service coordinator. So I wouldn't be really leaving my field completely.

33:46It's still working with kids. But it pretty much doubles my salary, which is fantastic. It's anywhere from$90 ,000 to$106 ,000 a year, depending on how many is on my caseload. But the problem I'm running into is it's a contract position. So it's a 1099 and not a W-2. So I have to do my own taxes. There's no benefits and there's no retirement whatsoever. So I'm just curious. One, do I accept this job? I haven't even offered it, but I'm thinking way ahead. I've had the interview. It went well. Do I accept this job? And if I do accept it, how do I save it for retirement? I'm so used to having my 401k that I don't know what to do.

34:27Dave Ramsey:Good for you. Good questions. You accept the job if it takes you to where you want to be in 10 years, regardless of benefits, where you want to be in 20 years, regardless of benefits. Because you can buy your own health insurance, which you'll have to do. You can fund your own Roth IRA and even do what's called a simple 401k, which is a simple IRA, which is a 401k for small businesses. You can do both of those. So you'll easily be able to adequately fund your retirement, buy your health insurance. And, of course, you're going to pay. You're already paying one side of your taxes. Now you just get to pay the other.

35:07Dave Ramsey:So you have a 7%. 7.63 % increase in your taxes because you're going to pay both sides. You get a 15.3 % self-employment tax versus your employer matches half of that if you're a W-2. Okay? So you're going to lose$7 ,000 there. you're going to lose another seven grand on uh health insurance and the retirement that you had wasn't a hundred percent pension anyway it was a 401k with the state so you were getting a match you were having to put something in there anyway so you're really not losing anything much there except maybe a little bit of match but i wouldn't worry about that the point is though that you're making a lot more money you're free and you're not you're not under the illusion that somehow how the state is going to take care of all my needs, which when you start talking about benefits, that's kind of what's happening in your spirit.

35:56Dave Ramsey:You know what I'm saying? Right. And this is this. I get to create my own hours. And I have like a job that I want to start on the side, like my own personal side business. Ding, ding. And I create time for that. Yeah. You got to do this. You got to do it. But you need to meet with an insurance pro and get with the folks we recommend here at Ramsey. They'll help you put the health insurance in place. Health Trust, they're called. and you need to meet with your SmartVestor Pro in the area. You can find them at RamseySolutions.com and get your IRA started. And if you want to do more than a Roth IRA into retirement, which you should probably do more than that, if you're out of debt, that is, and then you could do also the simple IRA, which is a 401K for small businesses.

36:41Dave Ramsey:And you might even look at a SEP. There's two or three things you can do that are easy, they're not hard, and they'll be able to explain it to you in one meeting and you'll understand it. But you've got to buy health insurance and you've got to get your retirement set up. And you need to set up to what you probably ought to meet with your tax preparer and automatically start setting aside money for taxes as well out of each check. Right. Okay. So it doesn't sneak up on you, right? Right. Yeah, definitely not. Because in the second year you're required to do quarterly estimates, so you might as well do them in the first year.

37:15Dave Ramsey:because it helps you withhold. So you just say, okay, each quarter I have to pay a fourth of my income tax. And so you just start setting money out of each check to do that with, and it keeps it from sneaking up on you. So you've got to do a little bit of book work. You've kind of got to manage your life a little more, not be managed by the state. But none of this is really that. It's not intellectually straining. It's just a matter of setting up some systems in place that automatically come out of your checking account. So you're funding your retirement, you're funding your health insurance, and that kind of stuff.

37:45Dave Ramsey:So write it down. It's Health Trust. Our guys will help you put your health insurance in place. They're not in any trouble at all. They're an advertiser. We endorse them. And the same thing with the SmartVistor Pro. You can find the one in your area. Sit down with them. They'll help you get your retirement stuff going. And if you want a tax pro, you can find them too at Ramsey, at RamseySolutions.com. And they'll help you set up your quarterly withholding. And that's how you do it. Because now basically you're self-employed. That's what contract means. Amy, I want to challenge you to when this episode drops, I want you to go back and listen to yourself describe this new job.

38:21Because you did a great job peeling the math back, but listening to her explaining, this is the job for you. It's perfect.

38:28Dave Ramsey:She lit up. If I were hiring you to do that job, the way your eyes lit up and we didn't even see them would cause me to hire you. I want somebody on fire like that doing a job over here at Ramsey. Yeah, you'll get this job. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah, just let me at it. Put me in, coach. I mean, come on. Yeah, and I got to do the side gig, and I'm going to be where I want to be in 20 years. Yes, you've got to do this. Go get it. And don't ever, folks, let, I'm going to double my salary, but I'm going to lose my benefits. The answer to that is, woo-hoo. It's not, oh, God. Okay? It's, no. People become slaves to benefits.

39:06Dave Ramsey:That's why companies offer them, because some people place too high a value on things that mathematically don't have that much value. It's convenient. I want someone else to take care of this for me. Well, and it's this idea of having a babysitter. I've got somebody that I don't have to think about it, and so somebody's taking care of me. And I like the idea of just being in the real world, so it's a good thing, very good thing. Jared's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Jared. What's up? hey how are you guys great how can we help um i just really quick i've been listening to you for years my son is in business classes and he has totally taken on the ramsey doctor and i think there's a picture of you in his living room actually um bless his heart he needs to get some art he should call my show because that's not well right um so i've been kind of dabbling I'm not dabbling, but I've been diving deep myself for about the last three weeks.

40:03I got Baby Steps Millionaires on Audible. Thank you. Jared, I'm going to run out of time.

40:08Dave Ramsey:What's your question? My question is Dory, my girlfriend. We are getting married here pretty quick. She's got about$70 ,000 worth of tax debt from her former marriage. She's kind of discreet about it. She's embarrassed about it. She's an absolute sweetheart. Who didn't pay their taxes, her or her husband? Her husband and her both. Like, it was a joint. Who was filing the taxes? Her husband was. Okay. Investigate, get with a tax professional, preferably even a tax attorney, and investigate what's called the innocent spouse provision. And that is designed for something that's like this. Like, the husband's running a business, and she just signs the returns, doesn't even know what's going on.

40:55Dave Ramsey:And then he screws it up and runs it in the ditch, and there's a$70 ,000 bill. but she really signed everything, and they married filing jointly, but she didn't really know what was going on. And that's what the innocent spouse provisions is about, and they will release her if she can make that case, and they will go after only him. Okay. Yeah, because she was working full-time. Her and I are both schoolteachers. She's been teaching school through the whole time. Working is not the issue. The issue is did she know what the flip was going on, or was he running his own little side gig over here, and she blindly signed it?

41:27Dave Ramsey:Right. Okay. That's the story. If that's the narrative, the innocent spouse provision, and get with one of our tax ELPs on RamseySolutions.com, endorse local providers there for taxes. They can help you. And if they can't help you, they'll know who in your market can, and they'll hook you up with a good tax attorney. It depends on how complicated the case is. But for$70 ,000, you could drop$5 ,000 clearing this up, and it'd be a good investment in attorney's fees or tax CPA fees. Either one. But don't use one of the people off the stupid cable ads. Get a real pro.

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43:55Dave Ramsey:live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that you love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. He's the number one best-selling author, a Ph.D. in counseling, and host of the really popular Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. Be sure and check him out. If you want to figure out that your life is really, really good, just listen to about some of his callers. You thought your family was crazy? I'm just saying. You could listen to some of his callers. You didn't have any idea you were going to end up being Jerry Springer, did you?

44:39Listen, there's a few times I get off the show and I drive home and I call my wife and I can tell she's busy doing something. She's like, what is it? And I said, I just need you to know we're doing great. We're doing great. We're amazing.

44:51Dave Ramsey:We are doing great. We're amazing. Matt's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Matt, how are you? Hey, guys. How are you today? Better than we deserve. How can I help? So currently I'm on baby step six paying off my mortgage. Good. But if I look at it, I'm currently saving 46 % of my income still. Where did you get that? We taught you to do that. Well, you didn't. You said 15%. Oh, yeah, that's the part. Okay. Wow. So I guess my question, should I reduce that to the 15 % and just put the rest of it towards the mortgage? Yes. Okay. But you already knew that. If I were to do that, I did kind of. I mean, you knew I was going to say that.

45:38I just wanted the validation, you know?

45:40Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So here's the thing. What we discovered when we developed these baby steps a long, long time ago is I got out an old-fashioned thing called a spreadsheet, and I ran a whole bunch of possible case studies from a single mom making$25 ,000 to a doctor making$225 ,000, okay? And I ran them all down through there, and I ran, okay, here's your average house price for that person. average mortgage for that person. And if they put 15 % away, they can still pay off the house in about seven years on average. If they put 46 % away, they can't. And they end up with a mortgage long term. And we know that two things create the first$1 to$5 million in net worth.

46:22Dave Ramsey:Once you're debt free, two things do. Getting the house paid off is one and systematically saving in your 401k is too. So you're already doing both well. We just need to adjust the ratios so you get the house knocked out. Because as soon as the house knocks out, then 46%, if you want to do that, that's perfectly fine. Okay. How much do you make, man? Between me and my wife, we make$190 ,000, but I'm also a retired military. So I also get another $78 ,000 between my pension and disability per year. So you're dealing with a quarter million dollars a year. How much is left on your mortgage? $243 ,000.

47:05Dave Ramsey:Oh, you want it done in no time. Yeah, dude, you're going to have your own house. No one can take from you, man. And here's the other thing that happens. That's the thought is. Yeah, here's the other thing that happens is that we can't quantify. Even at Ramsey, we don't know what it is. We have the concept, and nobody else sees the concept. But when you have a paid-for home, something loosens up in your joints, in the way you walk, talk, carry yourself, and you end up making more money. It's the weirdest thing because you don't have to put up with bullcrap off everybody anymore. And so you just start doing the right stuff more often.

47:39Dave Ramsey:There's zero need to be a slave at that point. And it's hard to grasp exactly what that does. It's hard to grasp how that affects the divorce statistics to not have a mortgage. how it affects the generosity statistics, which affects the divorce statistics, which affects. I mean, all of these things play together because what we start out with as a math nerd coming up with a way to do stuff like you do, Matt, and I do, because we're both math nerds, we end up realizing that Dr. John Deloney's world is adding even more value to what we thought was just mathematically plausible. Yeah. There's just something about sitting in your house that no one could take from you.

48:19and like it's perfect you you say that extra thing in the meeting that may be a little bit contrarian a little bit sharper and one of the leaders says i want that person on my team yeah or when your boss says hey you're gonna do this and you say man i'm i i got something with my kid i'm not gonna miss that can we do this another time it there's a it just releases everybody i don't know it's it's powerful and i wish we could grasp it i'm sure somebody could figure out how to study it but man it is it transforms people's spirits man well i mean the level of anxiety goes

48:50Dave Ramsey:down the um medications go down people want to be around you the uh i mean stress related illnesses are you know if you map stress the increase in stress related illnesses with the increase in the personal debt load of the average american they run right together and and but we can't quantify the actual mathematical savings related with not having those stress-related illnesses. And so, you know, that's like hypertension, heart attacks, all that kind of crap. Well, here's the other thing for you, Matt. You're talking 24 months. Yeah, it's a nice deal. Y 'all can get pretty serious and have this house paid off in 24 months, man.

49:26Dave Ramsey:It's a nice deal. You're going to be worth$10 or$20 million, depending on how old you are. If you run the plan out the way we're talking about right here, it's pretty stinking incredible. Well done, man. Well done. I'm proud of you. That's very cool. And thanks for serving your country. Appreciate you. All right. Caitlin is with us in Philadelphia. Hey, Caitlin, what's up? Hi. Hey, I was calling. My husband and I are on baby step two. We've had a few years of a lot of transitions. Hasn't lost a job a couple years ago. You know, ended up getting some others. Long story short, last year we made a move.

50:03He's pastor, and we moved for a position that would give him um probably like the most he's ever made um we bought a house we had sold a house so we bought a house um i actually ended up taking a pay cut um but we've not been super happy we've missed where we used to live and we have an opportunity to move back to where we had been um and it it doesn't have much room for growth so we live currently outside of the city this position will be rural again. And, you know, we're really not going to probably ever end up making a whole lot more money.

50:40Dave Ramsey:I don't think you're going to be as happy as you thought you were because you left for those same reasons that are still there.

50:47You have to realize that wherever you move, you and your husband are going to go with you there. Yeah. A lot of it, though, is like we're in our 40s already. We have teenagers. They've not been real happy. You know, but it's because they're not happy because they're living in a house where their parents aren't happy. Yeah. Children absorb the tension in their home. This has been more stressful of a situation. Like, I do feel like we took on too much mortgage. Okay. So we're struggling in that area.

51:21Dave Ramsey:Why don't you buy a cheaper house and stay there?

51:26So that's my question, I guess. Do we keep our houses here? I thought you were going back to the country. Well, yeah. I would not recommend uprooting teenagers again and moving across the country again. You went suburban, then you went to urban, and now you're trying to go to rural. You're chasing something. And until you and your husband go sit down with a marriage counselor and figure out what it is about the world y 'all are co-creating together in real time that y 'all aren't happy with, I wouldn't recommend running across the country. I would recommend what Dave said, sell the house you can't afford and buy a house you can afford or rent a house.

52:04And stay there other than that.

52:05Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And let's work on peace, solve for peace in the family. Yeah. I'll send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life from John Deloney. I think you'll like it.

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54:03Dave Ramsey:Hey guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, we could use your help. Turns out the number one marketing thing in the podcast world and in the YouTube world is you. When you tell people, when you push the subscribe button, the follow button, the like button, when you share the show by sharing a link or telling people that we're here. Hey, go check this show out, however you do that. Some of the platforms have a share button. That's fine. Any of that. And those five-star reviews, thank you. Keep them coming. We appreciate you. All that stuff actually affects a bunch of new people finding out about us, and we appreciate you.

54:44Dave Ramsey:The growth rate around here is mind-boggling, and we know that it's because of you. Thank you. So buying or selling a home right now, the market has just strangely warmed up in the past three weeks. I'm interested to see what happens to this real estate market. It's a big deal. If you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal, the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust that we have done the due diligence on. We're going to interview them. We do the agent profiles. We want high-octane, high-protein, high-producing, not Aunt Sally who got her license last week.

55:22Dave Ramsey:and everybody's got freaking Aunt Sally that gets her feelings hurt because you won't list your$600 ,000 house with a brand-new agent just because she's your aunt, and she takes time out from her bridge club to show your house. Eh, eh, eh, wrong. No. To find a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent pro for free, go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click the description and where you're listening there on the YouTube or on the podcast, and we'll hook you straight up. And these guys are good. They know what they're doing. Jay's with us in Canada. Hi, Jay. How are you? I'm doing really good. Yourself?

56:00Thank you, Dave and John, for taking my call. Sure. I have a question regarding my wife and I and our personal home. Cool. Yeah, sorry. I'm a contractor, and over the last eight years, I bought some commercial warehouse bays with the cash flow from the company. I have them rented out to 8-track, plumbers, electricians. The cash flow is a decent return. The value is about$750 ,000, and I currently owe about$300 ,000 on them. My question is, we have a home, a personal home that's worth about$700 ,000, and we owe about$300 ,000 on it. And I'm just wondering if I should be selling the portfolio, just getting rid of it, decreasing the debt and the risk, and just paying off that mortgage, because it's looming over top of me, and I feel like I drank the Kool-Aid a little bit of borrowing money for real estate, and I don't want to fall into that trap.

56:50Dave Ramsey:Good for you. What do you make? Around a little under$200, so$180-ish probably. Okay, cool. All right. Well, what I would do is to map it out and do some math sometime this evening or maybe tomorrow night, whichever one you want, and let's look at it two different ways, okay? Okay. How fast can we pay off the house if we lean into it without selling? Wait a minute. How many properties are there on the commercial? There's three. There's three different ones, and you gave me the totals, right? Yeah, you bet. Okay. So there's three possible scenarios. One is you keep them, and when you were describing them, you didn't use words that made me think you hate them.

57:34Dave Ramsey:You like those properties, don't you? I've had them for eight years. the cash flow they've been full the whole time that wasn't what i asked i said you like those properties don't you yeah okay it's a simple thing you like all the things that you just started describing and they're all good things i'm a real estate guy i love real estate i've got more money tied up in real estate than anything else so i love it i'm not against real estate i'm just against debt as you know so that's the kool-aid you've been drinking on okay so three possible scenarios you take your two hundred thousand dollar income you say if i keep all three of the properties, how long does it take me to pay off my house?

58:11Dave Ramsey:And then how long does it take me to pay off the other? So you got 600 ,000. If you did 100 ,000 a year, it'd take you six years or something like that. So probably seven years is the fastest you could possibly clear all of them unless your income went up, right? Yeah. Okay. So that's, that's scenario. Number one, scenario. Number two is you sell one of the properties, throw it at your house and you're debt-free in whatever it ends up being, five years, four and a half years, right? Okay. Scenario number three is you sell all three and you're debt-free tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. I'm thinking you're probably going to land in the middle one.

58:54Okay.

58:55Dave Ramsey:Because it just kind of takes your breath away to say sell all of them, although you do want to be out of debt, and I want you out of debt. but I think you could be out of debt in a reasonable period of time if you lean into this but you could accelerate the reasonable period of time by dropping one of them the least favorite one take that equity throw it at your house and I think you're done in four and a half years or so I might be wrong I'm guessing looking at these numbers but that's probably pretty close depending on how the equities shake out among the three but um I would sit down look at that and just go okay Which one do I want?

59:28Dave Ramsey:Do I want seven years? Do I want four and a half years? Or do I want three and a half months? Right. And the tradeoff is I own less of or none of these other rentals in any of these different scenarios. And honestly, I think what you're going to find is your stomach and your throat will tighten up. While you're looking at these one set of these, you go, that's not the one I want to do. That didn't feel good. Yeah. And I think that's the one where you sell all three, personally, because I think you still like these, but you like the idea of being out of debt. And I agree with you on both of those things.

1:00:02Dave Ramsey:I like them, and I like the idea of being out of debt. But do I want to fight through it for seven years? Maybe not. Yeah. What are you going to do, man? I'm curious. I'm going to pray about it. That's a good thing. You should do that before you call two yahoos on a podcast. I respect you guys' advice, and I appreciate your time. I think I'm going to sell one for sure. It's just how soon I can – you know, there's some other stuff at work. So I have a tenant that's got a long-term that might be beneficial to, you know, move, but we'll see. He might want to buy it. Yeah, that is an option. Yeah.

1:00:44Dave Ramsey:I mean, I don't care. There's a – you just think it through. But I think my point is the prayer is a good thing because one of the things you'll find is when God gives you something, it's very peaceful. That's right. So if you get an answer or you feel like you're getting an answer in prayer and there's not peace associated with it, it wasn't God. It was last night's pizza. You know what I'm saying? So that's what I meant by your stomach being tight and your throat being tight. Same thing. Where there's a sense of peace, that's a guidance mechanism. Even if the thing you're doing is about to be really difficult and challenging and not pleasurable, you'll still have peace.

1:01:23You still have peace like this is the right move. Yep. Yeah.

1:01:26Dave Ramsey:Exactly. Exactly. That's a really good question, Jay. But what we're giving you here is not an answer but a decision-making paradigm, a framework by which you can make these decisions and pull it off. And it applies to a whole lot of different things out there. And, you know, I love good real estate. I love it as an investment, but I love it paid for. and so whatever he ends up with here i want it to end up paid for um and then if he wants to add some more he adds it with cash as he goes along and i think he will be able to do that and the types of properties he's describing i don't know in in canada but the types of properties he's describing in uh nashville tennessee are wonderful type property don't well excellent property it's the track record of eight years always always full yeah yeah cash flowing i like it i like it i like it a lot so yeah that's the thing so um other stuff that is going down in value and that it's not an investment but is instead a consumption like a boat yeah if he had two boats in an rv in a big truck yeah and a four-wheel drive truck that you don't need no amount of truck will help you with your ego i'm just telling you i got a big one truck that is and an ego i was gonna say yeah

1:02:42Dave Ramsey:so i mean none of this stuff is worth is worth keeping to stay in debt that's bullcrap what we're talking about here is an investment that's going up in value and a guy that likes it now if you call me up and you say i hate being a landlord well regardless of what the implications are sell them all in cash out sell the stupid thing it's just a rental house it's like oh i feel dumb No, you don't feel dumb. You figured out what you don't like doing. A lot of people spend their life not knowing what they don't like doing. It's a good thing. Or doing it anyway and not liking it every step of the way.

1:03:16Dave Ramsey:Yeah, miserable. And then you make excellent trolls on the Internet. Because you can't get anything else to do except be miserable. And then you want to bring everybody with you on your trip. Your miserable trip. Your trip down miserable lane. You miserable people.

1:03:35Dave Ramsey:This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.

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1:05:35Dave Ramsey:Thanks for joining us, America. We're really glad you are with us. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, we found a way. It's a company called Y-Refi. They throw you a rope. So talk to Y-Refi and see if refinancing your defaulted student loans is a good way for you to get rid of the debt. Low fixed rate, fits in your budget, all that stuff. Talk to them. Y-Refi. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kate in Michigan. I'm a marketing professional in my early 20s.

1:06:13I started my own business and I earn over$150 ,000 a year. Congratulations, Kate. I have close to$125 ,000 saved as a down payment on my first house. I've always wanted to be a homeowner and I'm confident this is what I want to do. But a lot of people around me are pressuring me to not buy a home. Oh, good gravy. Because of Christian beliefs that girls... I'm reading it how she wrote it. That girls shouldn't buy a home and men should be providers. I don't have a boyfriend, so I'm not getting close. Dude, I can't finish this. I'm not even close to getting married. What would you advise your daughter to do?

1:06:53Leave the cult. Leave whatever madness and misrepresentation of Christian beliefs and ethics and right and wrong immediately. That is not a Christian belief, darling. No. That's a cult belief. God Almighty. I would advise my daughter to buy a house with$125 ,000 she has saved as a down payment.

1:07:10Dave Ramsey:Keep being the studette that you are and hope that some guy is lucky enough to even catch your eye. Oh, my God. Jeez, this is so bass-ackwards. You people. Unbelievable. Some of y 'all are just really screwed up, and then you put a cross over the top of it. You kill me. You make the rest of us that love Jesus look like we're morons because you're a moron when you do stuff like this. That's just nuts. I can't. This burns my butt. I don't have any words to say here, man. I hate bad doctrine and bad theology and how it affects people when they get in toxic situations. I'm sorry, darling. Your mother and father have misled you.

1:07:52Dave Ramsey:Leave the cult. Yes. Because that's where this crap's coming from. I mean, I don't have any other words to say that aren't going to get me. I don't. You don't think I'm not going to get it? I don't give a crap. This is stupid. I've been doing this a long time. What are you going to do? Get mad at me and leave? You and I guess that'll leave us only 60 million listeners. Oh, well, okay. Darn. Is this real? Oh, it's definitely real. You were on a podcast the other day. I was. You're right. That's right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You were in the middle of one of these dadgum things.

1:08:24Dave Ramsey:You know who usually start? Okay, cool. You know who says this crap? Men who are afraid of losing control of amazing women like this. And they're not as ambitious and they don't have as much get up and go. And so they— To even stand up next to a woman like this. They take their insecurity and fear and try to duct tape Jesus on the top of it to keep their crumbling kingdoms from coming out from under them. You wuss. Kate, you're amazing. Good for you. Kate, you're an absolute incredible human being. Jesus. Go shine, girl. Go shine. And just pray. Have some guy pray that he finds a woman as good as you to sign up with.

1:09:00Dave Ramsey:Oh, my gosh. I mean, if you've got a son out there and you're looking for—I mean, Kate is a good— In Michigan. Yeah. Well, she's former cult, but she doesn't have that in her background. She'll have some counseling necessary because getting out of this cult is going to be painful for a minute. Darling, you are. We're being a little bit melodramatic, but not much. But not really. I am going to strongly encourage my daughter to, A, I'm going to give her a picture of what a healthy marriage looks like because I want her to think I want to be a part of that institution. I want to be a part of this thing because my mom and my dad laugh a lot.

1:09:38They've got a ton of joy. Their finances work together. All the stuff that the data tells us. I want her to have a ringside seat of how amazing this thing is that my mom and my dad have. That's number one. Number two, I'm going to teach my daughter how to work hard. I'm going to teach my daughter how to do things on her own, learn how to do stuff, change a tire, fix the faucet, work really hard outside. She was out doing some crazy hot yard work the other day. She's nine and I pay her well and take care of it. Anyway, I want her to be able to know how to do the salt mines on Friday. She's not doing that.

1:10:09That's where my son is right now. But I want her to know how to do hard stuff. And yes, dude, if she says, dad, I want to start my own business thing, I can make 150 K a year. I will be, I will be shoving my, her mom and I will be pushing each other to see who's going to be the biggest cheerleader. And we're going to say, go get it. And if she says, dad, I have$125 ,000 as a down payment. I don't have any men that are worth my time yet. I'll say, can I go house shopping with you? That's what I would say to my daughter. Period. End of story. Ding, ding, ding. Ta-da. God, this gets me fired up, Dave.

1:10:40Dave Ramsey:Man, I think we probably ought to stop. Heidi's in Casper, Wyoming. Hey, Heidi, what's up? Oh, not much. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? My husband and I are debt-free, and we, about two and a half years ago, sold a business and have kind of taken the last two and a half years to just figure out what we want to do in life. And he has recently gone back to work, needed some purpose, went back to work, doing something he loves, something he cares about. So he does home inspection and he went to work for a guy and he has been there for, let's say, four and a half months and he loves it.

1:11:26It's been great. Recently, he has asked for a few days off. And essentially, the employer has denied him taking any time off. And he's not asking for paid time off. He's just asking for a few days here and there so that we can enjoy our family. We have kids that are almost out of the house, and we'd like to take the time to create memories during the summers and stuff. and he has denied him paying any time. He doesn't make great money, but again, he loves it, and so it makes it worth doing it for him. He has the opportunity to actually, he has all the skills to go do it on his own, and he is going to have a conversation with the employer and say, look, can we make something work?

1:12:20but he's pretty certain that he's going to say no that's not going to work morally so my question is morally would it be wrong he didn't sign a non-compete for him to open his own and do

1:12:33Dave Ramsey:home inspections for himself no not at all and that's what he should do as long as he doesn't take clients from his former employer okay so if the former employer works with uh suzy q real estate agent and he gives suzy q gives him all the all of her sales for inspections you can't use her okay you can't steal from the guy the contacts that you found by working for him that would be unethical okay and for whatever it's worth i want to put another here i am sympathizing with the business owner when my residence life staff worked for me at the university they all knew nobody can take vacation in August because we have thousands of young people moving in and it is day in and day out until we get these buildings ready.

1:13:24And everybody, everybody knew that. So if a part of the home inspection business is the chaos months or June, July, and August, and not even that,

1:13:34Dave Ramsey:if a part of the home inspection business is this guy hired you to work full time and you don't want to work full time. That's on you. That's not on him. He's not being unreasonable. He's not being unreasonable right and okay he hired a guy to work full-time and a guy doesn't want to work full-time yeah and if he said it's flexible and take some time off well you can't well i think we didn't have a good definition of flexible right he might say it's flexible in november and december right or he might say it's flexible one day every six months and you guys want to take you guys want to take five days a week i don't know i mean i don't know what flexible means but i don't think y 'all do yeah for three days i know but in your mind that's perfectly reasonable but you're Financially independent and used to be self-employed.

1:14:15Dave Ramsey:This guy actually thought he hired an employee. Right. So, no, you're being unreasonable. He has a reasonable right to ask your husband to work full-time. Now, except for the part where we didn't both agree on what flexible meant. But I don't use that word around here because I'm not. He tried yoga and it was a disaster. I broke the yoga.

1:14:44Thank you.

1:15:31Dave Ramsey:Ruth is in Philadelphia. Hey, Ruth, how are you? Hi, Dave. Hey, what's up? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. My 20-year-old son passed away about four months ago. Oh, no. What happened? Motorcycle accident. Oh, okay. Motorcycle accident. Ruth, what was his name? Elijah. Elijah. Good kid? Yes, great kid. Pretty amazing. Hard worker. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Between some money that he had saved because he was a good saver, he had done your program, and then there was a life insurance policy we didn't know on him. we've been left with about 95 ,000 my husband and I have 21 ,000 left on our house and we didn't know and that's the step we're on do we just pay off the house or do we need to sit and wait longer my husband does have a little reservation because we haven't gotten a police report and he's like what if somebody wants to sue us we were told originally from the first cop that it was not our son's fault but we don't have anything in writing that says that is there an open case against you?

1:16:37no not that we know of i would call the the investigator of the accident was there another vehicle involved yes someone hit someone hit our son okay um are is there going to be an additional suit at a later time we don't know anything we were told we last were told it was going to the prosecutor's office no will you be filing filing a suit at some time we hadn't thought about that Against the person who hit your son? We haven't even thought about that. Okay.

1:17:11If you're worried about a legal implication, I would get advice from an attorney if y 'all have one. If you're considering a suit down the road and thinking through all that kind of stuff, four months is, I always tell people don't do anything for six months. Okay. If you're itching to do a thing, maybe find a small cause to donate to or something like that.

1:17:31Dave Ramsey:I wouldn't even do that right now. Yeah, but I wouldn't do nothing for a couple more months. I don't think money is an issue right now in your life. A broken heart is an issue in your life. So we don't need to pay the house off yet? Not yet. I would set the money in a high-yield savings account and just forget it's there until it's at least six months old, until the tragedy is at least six months old. Because it takes about that long to even get a full breath. you can't even get your lungs full right now still okay right right no i agree and and i i can't imagine being in this situation but i do know that even as clear thinking and decisive as i am i don't think i would be in i i know i would be in a a debilitated state to make great decisions i think looking in from the outside paying off the house is kind of a no-brainer i don't think it's a big deal at all.

1:18:27Dave Ramsey:I mean, 95 ,000 minus 21, even if you've got some legal things, you're going to have enough. But I just don't think you need to worry about it right now. That's my point. I think it's good just for you and your husband to be holding each other and crying right now. Ruth, unfortunately, I've had the honor and the heartbreak to sit with a lot of parents in this situation. Let me ask you this. I often hear some semblance of this story. There's an emptiness and I feel like I need to do something. Does that encapsulate your story or are you feeling something different? No, I feel like I do need to do something.

1:19:05Okay. I would challenge you and your husband to do something either together or somebody else or by yourselves, but find a thing to just plug into and say for three months, I'm going to plug into this thing. Local library, reading at an elementary school. I'm going to volunteer at a summer camp two hours a day just doing a thing that will get you up and moving to get to do a thing and then you can go back home and get back under the covers okay otherwise you're gonna end up just scrolling and scrolling and thinking well do I need to do this and do I need to do this and that pressure becomes anxiety over time you start worrying about things into the future and so find a small thing for you just to lack of better terms I wish I had a nice way to say this.

1:19:49Just discharge some energy into a thing that will be positively oriented, something that will help somebody. Are you guys in a good church? We are. We are. Good.

1:19:59Dave Ramsey:So you've got a good community crying with you. We do. And we have older children. And I am pouring something to my father. I have a 95-year-old father I'm helping take care of. Yeah, that's a positive, yeah. Okay. But that can also come with its own set of grief too, right? It will. Yeah, it does. So even if it's as simple, can I tell you something my parents did? And they didn't even tell me they did this. I found this out secondhand. They got in a car. They live in central Texas. They got in their car and drove a couple hours and picked up somebody who lost most of their house. They picked up all the laundry in the house, nine trash sacks, and drove it all the way back to their house.

1:20:40And they're just doing laundry for the next week. They live in Texas. They felt like they needed to do something with these floods. And they have very limited resources. and they got up in the car and they did a small thing, ended up being a huge thing for that family. And they didn't tell anybody. They didn't even tell me they did that. And so finding, like, I'm going to do somebody's laundry. Me and husband, we're going to go mow one lawn a week together. Something that will get you out of your head and just go do a thing for somebody and then come back. And then two months, three months after you all decided we're going to sue somebody, are we going to let this thing go?

1:21:09Do we have a police report? Then you can start making your next steps. Wow.

1:21:14Dave Ramsey:Preston's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Preston, how are you? Hey, I'm doing fantastic. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my primary question, is it more important to follow your baby steps exactly, or is it more important that me and my wife agree on how to get out of debt? Baby steps. Forget your what. I'm totally kidding. Totally kidding. It's more important that you don't pose two negatives. Right. You put yourself in an impossible cage. Yeah. Fair enough. How about third option? We both sit down and talk about our goals and how we're going to get there long enough that we agree on the way we're going to get there.

1:21:56Okay.

1:21:58Dave Ramsey:So this is not an argument about the baby steps. This is an argument about power. I hadn't considered that. I appreciate that perspective. So, yeah, I mean, the baby steps are correct. Obviously, I'm going to say that because I've got 10 million, 20 million people that have followed them and had great results and followed them exactly. And so, no, I'm not going to tell you to deviate from that. But that's a spirit of legalism, and that's not the spirit we want to get. We need to get a spirit of alignment. But if we can't get alignment on something that's smart, there's got to be an underlying reason for that.

1:22:33Dave Ramsey:And let's get the underlying reason for the lack of alignment out in the open, which is a power struggle. and let's try to get to the bottom of that and figure out what – because you're probably – if you're disagreeing about something like arguing about the baby steps, there's probably some other stuff that's out of a line. This may be the 10th scheme and your wife has said, I'm not doing that. Or it might be she wants to pay this one credit card that's been haunting her. You're like, no, it's exactly what you said. It's about power. Who's going to be right? And let's put right or wrong aside and say, how can we be united?

1:23:04And usually that stuff takes care of itself.

1:23:06Dave Ramsey:And, you know, the interesting thing is if it's something like that, which credit card, that's such a temporary non-issue. Correct. Correct. Such a temporary non-issue. And so the big things are how are we going to become wealthy and get out of debt? Right. And, you know, what's the best way to do that? Let's get after it. And so, you know, if you do this and do this and do this and we're going to do it with enthusiasm, then have at it. Right. You know, but the most efficient way is to do the different things, the nuanced things that we talk about while you're doing the baby steps. Like, for instance, it's not a baby step, but if you keep getting a tax return, one of the things that people do is they adjust their withholding to where they get the proper amount coming home and they have more money coming home to get out of debt with.

1:23:53Dave Ramsey:That's not a baby step. You know, whether you keep your car or not, too expensive a car that's in debt. You know, that's not a baby step, but we're looking at, okay, we own a car that's$50 ,000 and we make 40. Well, that's not a baby step thing. That's just stupid. Just bad math, yeah. You know, and so on. And so there's all these different things you've got to look at. I've got a whole life policy. It's got$24 ,000 in it. Good. Get some term insurance in place, which is the proper amount of life insurance to get 10 to 12 times your income. And term insurance would cost you nothing. And get that$24 ,000 and throw it at your debt.

1:24:25Dave Ramsey:These are things that people do while they're doing the baby steps. But if somebody comes at their spouse and attacks them with the baby steps, it's not uncommon that we hear somebody try to throw something in the gears just to say, I want to have a say too. Right? Yeah, my vote counts. My voice counts. Right. Yeah.

1:24:45Dave Ramsey:This is The Ramsey Show.

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1:26:03Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Emma is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Emma. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. Thank you. Good. How can we help? Okay. I have a medical insurance system I'm hoping you guys can give me your expertise on. Married, 39. My husband, 45. We have two kids, a 13-year-old and an 8-year-old.

1:26:52I was recently laid off in April of this year from my job of almost 20 years. I knew it was coming. That's okay. I did receive a very nice severance package. So I will have 100 % pay and benefits for my entire family through November of this year. Okay. My husband, full-time employed as well. So I carried the medical benefits. I hit the ground hard, got a job, started last week, and very close to the same pay I was at, sat down to do my benefits with my new place of employment. And the plan that I originally wanted to select is not an option because I already am holding medical benefits from my past employer.

1:27:43So my two options are...

1:27:46Dave Ramsey:You can cancel those. i can't cancel them i'm if i do cancel them my old place of employment will want to lump sum pay me my severance instead of keeping the bi-weekly normal paychecks who cares coming is it a different amount no they would just get hit pretty hard with taxes no you don't Tax is exactly the same. Withholding is different, but taxes are the same. Explain the difference of that, Dave. Okay. So when you do a lump sum or when you get like a huge bonus check, we employers are required to withhold more of it at a greater rate as if you were making more money than you're really making, which is IRS double talk for bull crap.

1:28:32Dave Ramsey:But anyway, we're required to do that. So if you got currently 15 % being withheld, we might have to withhold 20%. but it doesn't change your actual taxes when you file them at the end of the year. You're going to get it all back. Okay. So can you select the option at the new employer and it start immediately that you like? I can if I don't have those other. If I select no, I don't have another insurance. I know, but you can't cancel if it's not going to start the next week. Yes, they're going to retro it back to July 1st. Yep. Okay, so if you went to your former and canceled, you could sign up for this and you would have full coverage immediately?

1:29:13Yes, which would be much cheaper than the only plan that I would qualify than at my new place of employment. I just have the dilemma of I didn't want to pay double insurance because it would be an extra$5 ,000 for the rest of the year. No, you shouldn't pay double insurance.

1:29:26Dave Ramsey:You can cancel the insurance with a former employer. Call up your old HR and send them an email that says, I need to cancel it effective this date. Okay. And that date needs to be the date that your new employer insurance starts. Can that occur? Okay. Can you do that? I can call and do that. No, no, I'm saying can your new insurance start on a set date at the new place, the day that you have officially made your other one cancel? Yes. So you're not going to go a day without insurance the way we're describing this, correct? Correct. Good. Okay, that's what you need to do. Yes. Then let the former employer know, you don't have to pay for my health insurance anymore.

1:30:11Dave Ramsey:Good for you. I mean, I know that's what they want, right? Like, they would prefer us to call and do the long-term payout. All right, so, Emma, that was my question. How much of this is you want them to pay because they fired you for 20 years? I mean, no, not really. It wasn't that. But kind of? Every time I've gotten a bonus over the last 17 years, we have those employees and colleagues that are like, I'm changing my withholdings. I'm going to get my full bonus. That's never been me. I'm like, you know what? No, let them take as much because I don't want to pay it back. It's not withholding, though.

1:30:41Dave Ramsey:You're going to be taxed at exactly when you file your taxes at the end of the year. You pay taxes on your income, regardless of what of how the income was paid to you, whether it was paid biweekly or in a lump sum. Your income tax at the end of the year is exactly the same either way. The only difference is when they pay out a lump sum, they're required to over withhold. old, but that means you're going to get a tax refund is what that means. Okay. What's that like? Yeah, really? It's awesome. Yeah, this one time, just this one time. But yeah, but in the process, we've also solved the health insurance problem.

1:31:17Dave Ramsey:So yeah, that's a misnomer. A lot of people believe that you actually get taxed higher on bonuses, but you don't get taxed higher. You just have more withheld as if you're going to be taxed higher, but you don't end up paying all of that in tax when you do your filing. And here's one other, just again, I don't have any data to back this up. This is just wisdom from your brother, John. There's something about you're going to pay me out this every month for the next year. And you can't heal from that company that let you go after 20 years until you stop taking a check from them. There's something about take that lump sum.

1:31:55If you've got insurance that you said is cheaper, it's going to be the same plan. Cut ties with this place and start healing from that and don't let them continue to. It feels like you're winning. You're not winning anything. Just move on from it. Take that check and get on about your life. Just something about setting it all free.

1:32:12Dave Ramsey:Being free is a good thing. It sure is. That's a good question. And I think we did not know that. That's good to know. If you clear it up, the math on it, then it helps you to make it helps you just to get down to, OK, is there any emotion driving the decision? And if there's not, then that's OK. But if there is, then you do have the benefit of putting the whole thing in your rearview mirror by getting the lump sum. I like that. That's kind of the rip the Band-Aid off thing, and you get to start healing. And you're right. The company will save some money by paying you out. They'll not have any health insurance.

1:32:42Dave Ramsey:You're right. That's great. But it gives you a better deal, too. So, yeah, I'm going that way, and that way I don't have any laps in coverage because I don't want Murphy, you know, if it can go wrong, it will, hanging around these coverage lapses. that's about the time you know you have a kidney stone or something and you get about eight thousand dollar bill um in that one week period of time you know or something it's just that's nuts so yeah you gotta so tell me about the it's it's not commission checks it is but if you get a commission check you get a huge commission check is there a is there a line amount it's a it's a ratio to your income so basically you've got a w-2 and when you're on a salary or a steady you know you get is steady but if there's a large bonus um it's almost like the game show tax only the game show tax is actually a tax it's just withholding so it's not like that at all anyway the uh um but it's uh and i don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head because they've changed them but we have to do it here yeah so if we've got a a situation where uh you know somebody earns a large check i have a wild month you have a wild wonderful month yeah you're going to get a different withholding you're probably not because yours is probably all over the place anyway it is Yeah, but if you're going along steady and then you get this bump, like a$10 ,000 bonus at the end of the year and you make$50 ,000,$60 ,000.

1:34:01Dave Ramsey:That's going to get hit heavier than your regular check is. But it's only on the amount they withhold as if, because they treat it as if you're making$10 ,000 a month now and you're not. They calculate it wrong. It's the IRS, for God's sakes. They don't do anything right. So, and if you work for them, I'm talking to you. This is The Ramsey Show.

1:34:49Dave Ramsey:Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense? They swipe credit cards left and right saying, I need a vacation. I deserve this. But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess. Listen to me carefully. You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories. Here's the deal. Instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford. That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job. That way you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess.

1:35:30Dave Ramsey:Look, you got to start bossing your money around or else it'll always be the boss of you. Download every dollar today.

1:35:50Dave Ramsey:Hey, are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head over to the show notes and click the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? And complete the quick, free quiz. And we'll help you get on track, baby. Keith Kagan is with us in San Angelo, Texas. Hey, Kagan, how are you? Good. Thanks for saying my name right, actually. I was trying to not mess it up. They help me phonetically and everything. Occasionally I can get it. But what's up? How can we help? So I'm 32 years old. I make$70 ,000 a year, and I'm about$120 ,441 in debt, and it's all consumer.

1:36:36Well, I actually have – my wife has$16 ,000 in student loan, and I'm just wondering the best way to tackle this debt. I'm following the baby steps. We started about a month ago, and I'm like$4 ,000 in. We just paid off one of the credit cards and some medical debt.

1:36:54Dave Ramsey:Good. So what is the$120 ,000 in debt? $16 ,000 was student loans. $16 ,061.45 is student loan. I've got$11 ,079.16 on credit cards. Truck,$24 ,801.47. and then the biggest one is$67 ,718.18 on an RV that we live in. You live in? We live in it, yeah. Tell me about that. We were living in the Austin area, and my income before we moved here was a lot lower and a lot more inconsistent. so we started living in an RV and it saved us a lot of money and before we moved here we bought this new RV thinking we were upgrading our lives and it turns out we were just strapping ourselves to a big piece of metal.

1:37:59Yeah, that's depreciating underneath you every night you go to sleep. What's it worth now? Yeah, it's worth about$51 ,000. Okay.

1:38:08Dave Ramsey:Does your wife work outside the home, sir? uh she she's babysitting my sister's kids right now she makes like she's bringing in like six hundred dollars a month and she's wanting to start working in august yeah have you guys got kids we've got one kid he's two years old okay so she starts working in august what she made um we're thinking she's going to be pulling in about 16 an hour there good okay all right

1:38:43So we're pretty frugal. We're floating this, and I usually—

1:38:47Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I don't think you guys are out buying coach purses. I can tell.

1:38:54Dave Ramsey:So the way I answer stuff here is I say, what would I do if I were in your shoes and why, so that you know the why, not just Dave said, okay? What I want to solve for, if I'm you, is I want to get back to a place where I have control of my life again to be able to move forward. Right now, an RV and a truck control my life. You're correct. And so I'm going to do some painful things to step back to set myself up to step forward. I don't want to just do them to do them. I want to do it so that I get free to be able to move forward. Because if you don't have an RV payment and you don't have a truck payment and you have a small apartment rent instead, this thing turns around pretty quick.

1:39:46Oh, I know. We look at the math and see how capable we are. Yeah, yeah.

1:39:51Dave Ramsey:I mean, you guys could be making$100 ,000 living in a cheap one-bedroom apartment for one year and clean up every bit of this by selling the truck and the RV. And you can get a nice house in San Angelo, Texas. Two years from now. And I know that because I've got family that live there. Two years from now. Really? Yeah. It's a reasonable place. It's a great place to raise a family, man. Good, low cost of living, yeah. We're pretty comfortable. A lot more comfortable here than we were. The issue I'm having when I'm looking at selling the truck or the RV, the truck's upside down as well as the RV.

1:40:27Dave Ramsey:How bad is your credit? My credit's not bad. It's around$730 ,000,$750 ,000. Swing down the credit union and borrow the difference. I'd rather you be$9 ,000 in the hole. I have a personal loan for$9 ,000 and the RV's gone than I would be$67 ,000.

1:40:46So you're saying borrow$9 ,000?

1:40:48Dave Ramsey:You said you could sell it for, you know, if you sold it. Whatever it amount. Borrow the difference. Borrow the difference. Borrow the difference. Assuming you can get the thing sold, you know, and all that. But the same thing's true with the truck. What do you think the truck's worth? Last I checked, it's anywhere between$16 ,000 to$21 ,000, depending on condition. Yeah, good. So if you could get$21 ,000 out of it, that makes it only$3 ,000 in the hole. That's pretty sweet. So if you got a$15 ,000 loan at the credit union, you got rid of these two loans. Now we're down to a little bit of credit card debt, a student loan, and a credit union loan to get back to zero.

1:41:24Dave Ramsey:And when you got no payments in the world a few months after that, like another year roughly, then at that point you're completely debt free. Now both of you together are making$100K. You save up a good down payment on a house.

1:41:42Okay.

1:41:43Dave Ramsey:And you drive a beater. But you drive like no one else and you live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and drive like no one else. This is exactly what my wife and I did 30 years ago when we went broke. I'm honestly at this point looking forward to driving that beater yeah but here's the thing because you got out of Austin and you live in San Angelo you can move over there west of Great Creek Road and get yourself two acres and a small house and for a couple hundred thousand dollars that would be two million dollars in Austin so you can have that life you want it's right there you just have to have it's gonna take you about three years to get there Some really uncomfortable conversations.

1:42:25Dave Ramsey:Three years to get there. And you get the benefit of not living in an RV the whole time, which is pretty cool. Yeah, my wife's totally on board with this. She's been a big help. She does all the cooking and everything, and she makes everything from scratch. That's awesome. I'm going to give you Financial Peace University. I'm going to give you a total money makeover book, and I'm going to give you a year of every dollar free as our gift to you because I think you're really going to go do this, and I want to help you. Thank you. Go to the credit union tomorrow. Yeah, go to the credit union and start working on where you can borrow this money to cover these differences.

1:42:59Dave Ramsey:If the truck is with the credit union or the RV is with the credit union, ask them to let you just sign a note for the difference. Because they're already negative. They already don't have collateral to cover their loan as it is. They might as well admit it and turn it into a personal loan. But if they're with the RV company or the Ford Motor, you're screwed. They're not going to do that, okay? But you have to go borrow it somewhere else. But I would rather you have$10 ,000 in credit card debt because you sold the RV,$10 ,000 more in credit card debt because you sold the RV than$67 ,000 on the RV.

1:43:33Dave Ramsey:That's a good trade. It's a really good trade because you're going to get it paid off that much faster. You got your cash back. You got your flow back. So you hang on. Our team will pick up, and we'll get you signed up for all that stuff I just gave you. and you call us back any time we can help you because you're you're exactly why this show exists just for you you you know we've helped millions of people just like you that's why we're here so you call anytime dude that's what we're here for it's good when you um are ready that the teacher appears huh well when you yeah there's that moment and you can i don't know how how it happens day but you can hear it in the voice of a caller like oh this person's gonna go do it and it's that mixture of fatigue and fired up and i'll do whatever i'll do whatever i gotta do i'll sell the house up from underneath us this and you know what he's also selling a dream yeah he's selling selling a dream i'm selling all this stuff because it's not working i got a two-year-old it's time for me to my plan didn't work i'm selling that i'm selling all of it the whole package my austin dream i'm gonna get a camper in austin and do the austin thing um and not I'm backing on Austin.

1:44:41I love Austin, but it's just, I'm selling all of it. I'm tired. I want peace. And man, when you get there, you can hear it on somebody's voice over the phone. It's fantastic.

1:44:51Dave Ramsey:You know, part of it is no one wins with money until they decide they don't care what other people think. That's it. Including the guy in your mirror. You got to go, I don't even care what you think.

1:45:11Thank you.

1:45:42Dave Ramsey:Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. ramsaysolutions.com slash agent Dr.

1:46:35Dave Ramsey:John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. He is also one of the two people, including Rachel Cruz, doing our money and marriage getaway. We have two of them coming up. They're on sale. You can spend three incredible days here in Nashville on our campus with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and handle your money together. Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, this is pretty much stand-up comedy and a lot of deep, really good information. Tickets start. We have one in November, one in February. One in February would be Valentine's Day weekend. Early bird pricing is still available for that one.

1:47:13Dave Ramsey:Tickets start at$7.49 a couple. There's just a handful left for November. So if you're going to miss out on November, just wait a minute. You'll miss out on it. There you go. November 6th through the 8th, and just a handful there. But you can still get in the Valentine's Day pretty easy, 12th through 14th early next year. Tickets are the lowest price right now before they end at RamseySolutions.com slash getaway or click the link in the show notes and you get to be a part of that. John, that's a good event. You and Rachel always have incredible results out of that. People's marriages are enhanced and sometimes saved.

1:47:48Dave Ramsey:Saved, yeah. It's by far my favorite thing I'm a part of. And I love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Ann Marie is in Reno, Nevada. Nevada. Hey, Ann Marie, what's up? Hey, thanks for saying Nevada correctly. I was trying. I am 59 years old and want to know how do you recommend handling finances in a committed relationship when based on my divorce decree, I cannot remarry or I'll lose income, which is over$5 ,000 a month that I really couldn't afford to lose. Okay. So you get$60 ,000 a year alimony for how much longer? Lifetime. Wow. You were married a while. Yep. Okay. And you don't work outside of the home?

1:48:40I have a small part-time business. I have a little discretionary income, not anything super substantial. I have lots of investments and have a house. I do have a small mortgage. Okay.

1:48:57Dave Ramsey:And the gentleman that you are dating makes what? We're pretty equally yoked as far as what we make and assets and that sort of thing. So he has a job and he makes$60 ,000 a year? Yeah, he'll make$60 ,000 plus and has his own home and other assets.

1:49:25Dave Ramsey:That's a very, it's a very difficult question.

1:49:31Dave Ramsey:And the. Because I hear you guys all the time about be married, be married, be married. I'm like, I can't. I'm leaving too much on the table. No, you can. It's just going to cost you. What is it worth to you? Yeah, that's it. Your values over the money. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. So my problem is, and John's problem, we're people of faith, we're Christians. And so Scripture tells us we can't be living with somebody we're not married to and be having sex with somebody we're not married to. That's what our faith book tells us. And so that's how we believe and how we live. And so if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have any choices in that regard.

1:50:12Dave Ramsey:I would have to say, all right, we're not living together.

1:50:19Dave Ramsey:or we're going to give up the$60 ,000. Let me ask you this. How long have you been divorced?

1:50:29Well, separated over three years. Originally, we had a separation agreement, so I would not lose health insurance. And then we recently went ahead and divorced. When was the divorce final? Three months ago. Oh, this is fresh.

1:50:50Dave Ramsey:And what does your ex make?

1:50:57Twice what I get. We've split everything 50-50, literally everything.

1:51:02Dave Ramsey:So he makes$120 ,000 a year and you got$60 ,000 alimony? He offered that, didn't he? Well, it's... No? Okay. It's basically what I required. He agreed to it. It's pretty well. It's unusually high. A judge usually would not have done that in most states, okay? Well, we had already separated our finances long since, like three years ago. So as far as investments, all of that, everything was totally separate. We agreed everything 50-50. Of course, you know, I supported him all these years as far as moving around the world and supporting his career. This means you were already in a serious relationship before your divorce was final.

1:51:48Dave Ramsey:What happens when he's 75 and doesn't make$120 ,000 anymore? No, this is all retirement income. He makes$120 ,000 retirement income. Mm-hmm. So what is in his retirement? Is that a pension? Yes. between pensions and Social Security. So he doesn't have a big nest egg then? Well, we both do because we spend financially all of our married life. I'm going somewhere with this. I'm not just being nosy. How big? Okay. Well, I mean, we each have over half a million in other investments. Okay, good. That's what I was after. I wasn't trying to shame you. I'm just trying to figure out what the flip's going on.

1:52:40Dave Ramsey:All right. So the downside is that this is real fresh. If he had been paying this$5 ,000 long enough that he had a little bit of fatigue from doing it, which he doesn't have yet. He's been doing it for over three years. He's been doing it for over three years. So you could offer him a buyout, a lump sum buyout.

1:53:05Dave Ramsey:I don't understand what you're asking us. I had not thought about that. Okay. That would set you free to get married, and it would set him free from you. Sounds like a win-win.

1:53:20Dave Ramsey:Have you got a financial planner? Yes. Okay. Sit down with them and ask them to help you do some calculations of what this might be worth in a lump sum. and, you know, because$60 ,000 a year for 30 years is a lot of money. Yeah, I'm not sure on this one. Some buyout idea that never crossed my mind. So, yeah, as far as being in another relationship and considering this, I'm not saying that I'm with someone considering this. I'm asking about this because it's a topic of discussion, like in the community where I live. So many people are in this situation. Oh, okay. Well, I'm a person of faith that I don't tell people to shack up.

1:54:12Dave Ramsey:There's not a circumstance I'm going to do that. Okay. So a lot of people, what they do here is, like, they'll have a commitment ceremony, you know, everything but the state license. So I was wondering if that is... Well, I don't know. I mean, you'd have to talk to your if you're a person of faith, you talk to your pastor of do you consider that being remarried or not? But if you consider it being remarried, then it's unethical to continue to violate the divorce decree. You're just ducking it. So, you know, I think you're talking about a lot of hypotheticals all of a sudden and I suddenly don't care.

1:54:44Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So you just do. I mean, just have a, you know, no, I'm not going to tell you to shack up. There's not enough money in the world. I'm going to tell you to go do that. Sorry. I've got, you know, it's called standards. It's called principles. It's called ethics. And that's, you know, not saying I'm perfect. I'm not. There's a lot of stuff I've done in the past that I certainly glad Twitter wasn't around when I was in college. And so but the but I'm not going to, you know, tell somebody going forward to enter into something that I don't believe that would be inconsistent for me to do that. If I wouldn't tell my daughter to do it, if I wouldn't tell my best friend to do it, I'm not gonna tell you to do it.

1:55:21Dave Ramsey:So you've got to decide that for yourself. I can't make that decision for you, but it's not a financial decision. And if you want to try to skirt the ethics on it, I think that's going to bite you later in other ways. Because if you're willing to lie about that to get money, then what else are you willing to lie about to get money? And I'm just not going to do that. But I have negotiated a lot of lump sum buyouts. They're really rather pleasant because everyone gets free. Everyone's happy. From the past, the tethering.

1:56:17Thank you.

1:56:46Dave Ramsey:We have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. Earl Wilson says, today there are three kinds of people. The haves, the have-nots, and the have-not paid for what they have. That's pretty good. I like that. Alice is with us in Seattle. Hey, Alice, what's up? That's so good. Hello. Hi. How are you guys doing today? Doing great. How can we help, Alice? My question was, how do I get over the fear of trying to start a career, like just even thinking about getting started before you know I've actually started? I'm having trouble understanding you, honey.

1:57:30Dave Ramsey:Speak directly into your phone, please. You're having a fear about what? How do I get over the fear of starting a career before I've even started? How old are you? 28. 28, okay. Are you nervous right now? Is that what I'm hearing in your voice? Yeah. Okay. I'm excited and nervous. Okay, all right. I'm just making sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing. I didn't want to misjudge that. Okay. What are you scared of? I was failing, disappointing, like my employers are future employers. What's your new career? So I went to school for literary studies. My plan was always to go into editing, copy editing, or just freelance editing even.

1:58:30So I guess I would tell you there's a 100 % chance you will, over the course of your working career, you will do a thing that your supervisor doesn't like or that thought you could have done better. I've done that here could have given a little bit better talk could have turned in a draft earlier whatever and so I think knowing that perfection can't be the goal might free you from trying to trying to keep treading water towards that goal and then say okay then what must be true for me to go in and do the best possible work I can on a day in and day out basis how athletic are you I'm not that athletic but I do like running

1:59:17Dave Ramsey:you do like what running okay good distance running have you done any races races I did cross country have you done some half marathons or anything like that no I was thinking about it Yeah, okay. I've done about, it's been a while. I think I quit running because of knees and stuff about 10 years ago. But prior to that, I did about 20 half marathons. And the Ethiopians won every one of them. I didn't win one. Little pudgy bald guys generally don't win marathons. And so what I'm bringing up is that the secret to happiness is lower expectations. I didn't enter those races thinking I was going to win, and so I'm going to enjoy the race.

2:00:12Don't enter this career thinking you're going to be perfect and that it might fail, but you can go do it another one.

2:00:18Dave Ramsey:So what? You're not going to die from it. And just expect that it's not going to be perfect because that's kind of how it is going to be. It's not going to be perfect. I mean, you're not, you know, because part of being an editor is you're pissing off the people that you're editing. I don't like being edited. I don't either. And I talk too much, Alice, so I desperately need an editor. Listen, my last book, we left 40 ,000 words on the floor. Well, and there's some grammar, too, but yeah. Because I write too much. I'm too wordy. I keep going and going. But no author, like, no writer likes to be edited.

2:00:57Dave Ramsey:It's not fun. So you're getting ready to enter a career that's not fun for the people you're helping. You're a little bit like a surgeon. Nobody likes to be cut on, but they don't want to die. And they're so grateful when the surgery's over. Yeah. A little bit like the dentist. I feel like I'm just procrastinating. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's procrastinating because I'm just so paralyzed. Well, you just have an unrealistic expectation that everything's going to be perfect, and it's not. There's a great quote by a woman out of the UK, and I just lost her name, but said, imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you're judging yourself.

2:01:35Ooh, that's pretty good. And it sounds like before anyone even has a chance to judge you, you have already been your judge and jury and executioner. And I want to tell you, I think you're delightful. Thank you. And so I think that the voice that is the harshest to you right now may have started with a mom or a dad or a coach or somebody who was ugly to you when you were a kid. But somehow over time that has morphed into your voice. And I just want to challenge you to start talking to my new friend Alice a little bit kinder. Or a lot kinder. Is that a fair request? Yes, I try. I know, but you talk to yourself worse than you would ever let somebody talk to one of your friends, right?

2:02:25Absolutely. Yeah. And so sometimes it's simple as getting a journal and writing a couple of things you're grateful for every morning and writing a note to yourself. And I'm not talking about some like super empowerment, like, oh, yeah, like not that. I'm talking about three things I'm grateful for and three things I'm going to do today because I'm worth that. and just make it a regular practice. And all you're doing is changing your default setting inside your mind that starts with you're worthless and you're probably going to fail to this is going to be hard and I'm going to give it my best. And that's just going to be a thing you practice.

2:03:03Dave Ramsey:So I wrote a book by my friend John Maxwell called Failing Forward. And one of the things he said in there that helped me on a lot of things is remember that when you're doing stuff, for instance, in business, We're always trying ideas, and the bulk of our ideas end up sucking. And then occasionally you get one that's brilliant, and they don't know about the other 90 things that you did wrong, but the brilliant one makes you look brilliant. And then you're on the cover of Success Magazine or whatever other bullcraps out there, right? And so – but he said in the book Failing Forward, he said, just reframe it and say it's not failure.

2:03:38Dave Ramsey:I'm experimenting. I found one more way that it doesn't work. I found another way that it doesn't work. I took up golf. I found a lot of ways that doesn't work. The secret to happiness is low expectations. So it's, yeah, I want to be excellent. I'm going to work hard. I'm going to experiment, though. And when you're a scientist and you're experimenting, you learn from failure. You expect failure, and it is part of the experiment. I'm experimenting. I'm not failing. And the old, you know, the old adage of Edison, they asked him, you know, the reporter asked him one time, you know, how is it that you found 9 ,900 and something ways that the light bulb didn't work?

2:04:25Dave Ramsey:Or how many you failed 9 ,900 times? He goes, no, I didn't fail. I found 9 ,000 ways it didn't work before I found one that did work. And he invented the light bulb. So there you go. And so it's. And there's a couple of practical things, Alice. when you get a new job, and I want you to make a commitment, I will apply for three jobs a day. I will apply for two jobs a day. Because it's not a procrastination thing. It's I keep promises to myself. I'm a person who keeps promises to myself. I will apply for two jobs a day. I will talk to somebody who's an editor in my local community and see if they have any ideas.

2:04:59But a thing I've always done with my supervisors when I join a company is I ask them, how do you want to hear stuff that might be hard for you to hear. When I turn something in, how do you want to get that? And it's a way just to kind of take some of the fear and some of those variables off the table, and then I'm going to do the best I can to meet those expectations. But going first and having those conversations, it just takes that fear away. Anxiety gets stronger the more you avoid the thing that your body's making you anxious about. You got to head right through the middle of it. And I wish there was a hack to that.

2:05:31There just isn't. You got to go right through the middle of it.

2:05:34Dave Ramsey:Really good question, Alice. We're proud of you. Go get them, kiddo. I think you got this. John, good show today. Well done. You're getting better, Dave. Hang in there. Hang in there. 30, 40 more years, I may get this figured out. Hang in there, my friend. You're getting better. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:06:03Thank you.