Financial Freedom Gives You Safety, Not Risk

13:17Dr. John Delony:Some of it was repossessed. Some of it he sold and paid off some of the loans, but he doesn't have any equipment left.

13:25George Kamel:Okay. And what's he going to do for work, for income right now?

13:29Dr. John Delony:Right now he's working at a hardware store making about$20 an hour, but he has another job lined up now that'll pay him about twice that. Great. Starts in April.

13:38George Kamel:So he's not just sitting on the couch feeling sorry for himself. He's out there hustling. Yes. Good deal. That's noble. That's good. Good deal. And what's his transportation right now? Now, is it still the car that's about to be repoed? And can we sell it before it gets repoed or catch up on payments and sell it?

13:54Dr. John Delony:I think it's about past that point.

13:56George Kamel:Because if you know what you could do if you wanted to is just catch him up on his payments so that he can go sell this thing, which is better than repo, which they're going to come after him for the deficit. They're going to go sell it at auction for way less than it's worth and then still come after him. And so you'd be in a better spot if you can help him catch up on payments to then sell it outright and make more for it. is this something that you would use your emergency fund for?

14:22Dr. John Delony:Because that's...

14:22George Kamel:If I had a baby on the way, no. Because right now you got to protect your own family. They come first. Yeah. And so if I'm in your shoes, we're kind of in stork and storm mode right now. And dad's in his own storm mode. And we all got to figure it out. I would honor my dad by having a, if this is possible geographically, having a face-to-face conversation to say, dad like i 100 get that you're in a truck in trouble and i really honor the way like you're setting a good example for me as a as a young dad for when this like life throws you a whole bunch of curveballs in a row you put on you put on your belt and you went to a hardware store right like like that's honorable and i got a new baby on the way i've got a youngster i'm not in a position both financially or with vehicles to help you out, man.

15:12George Kamel:And it breaks my heart, but I'm just not in a position to do that. That face-to-face, man-to-man conversation, assuming, A, he's not going to throw a temper tantrum, he'll actually hear you, right? I have a rule that I only have conversations if somebody can hear me, right? And if they're angry or frustrated or think I owe them or whatever would be in the case here, you can decide whether you'd have that. But that would be a neat way to honor him, to say, hey, I want you to know I see and I'm proud of you, and I simply don't have it to help with right now. Do you know the deficit on his payments, the exact number?

15:48Dr. John Delony:$2 ,700.

15:49George Kamel:Goodness gracious. So this is more than two payments, unless this is a giant payment.

15:54Dr. John Delony:It is two payments. It is over a$1 ,300 payment.

15:59George Kamel:Goodness gracious. And so I just, I don't have it. Yeah. Yeah. And let me tell you this. there's a psychologist out of New York her name is Becky Kennedy she's a friend of mine she gave me this new definition of guilt I want to pass to you she said often what we call guilt is not that at all guilt is a feeling that's inside of our chest that's right and good when we violate our own values right you haven't violated your own values here that guilt that you think you're feeling, you're trying to take his sadness and his franticness and his fear, and you're trying to manage that for him, and you can't do that.

16:44George Kamel:Right? And so it's you saying, I'm not violating any of my core values. I'm doing what's right for me and for my wife and for my young child and the child that's about to be here. And I'll sit with you while you have these feelings, these big feelings of fear and terror and embarrassment and shame, all that stuff that he's feeling, but I can't hold that for you. I'll sit there with you, but I can't carry it for you.

17:11George Kamel:And I know all of this, you're talking to two guys who love their own dads. I know this is heavy for you. Yeah. But you know what else it is? It's a line in the sand where you go, I want to be in the position to where if this ever happened again, I could help. And I wouldn't flinch. It would be such a small part of our world that I get to help the family that I love, and it wouldn't set us back. And so it's – I mean this is one of those things where you start to run away from the decisions that your parents have made. Not the character. He sounds like he's a great guy. But as far as the decisions and the financial place he put himself in, highly leveraged and running a business that he's still going to owe a bunch of debt on, you know.

17:50George Kamel:I'm never going to put myself in that position. I'm going to pay cash for things. I'm not going to owe other people money. And this is the other side. When we talk about financial freedom, I don't do a great job of talking beyond my own house, right? Like I want my house to have peace. But part of my house having peace is knowing I can help folks out when I think it's the right thing to do. Right? And so this is yet another encouragement for you and your wife to stay the course. You've paid off everything you own. You've got yourself an emergency fund saved up. You've got a new baby on the way.

18:22George Kamel:We're going to continue to walk these baby steps all the way out. And I want to be in a position one day that, come what may, I can help out. Hey, let me just – like you're a good son, man. Really? He's lucky to have you. Yeah. Regardless if you can fund his misbehavior, he's so lucky to have a guy who cares this much about his old man willing to walk through this with him. You're a good son. And by drawing this line here and having the courage to have a face-to-face with him, you're also showing courage and honor for your family, too. Your wife and your two young kids. Thank you for that. It's an honor to talk to you.

19:08Okay? Thanks.

19:10Dr. John Delony:Thanks, and I love your book, Building a Non-Anxious Life.

19:12George Kamel:Oh, thank you. Yeah, I think the hard part about building a non-anxious life is these moments. It's simple, but it's real, real hard in real life, right? Mm-hmm. All right, brother. Keep going, doing the next right thing, man. George, this one's hard. This is one of those, and again, we should probably talk about this more. This is the give like no one else, right? Yeah. This is the, I've taken care of my family and my bills. I drive this vehicle or we live in this size house or we don't go out to eat this often because it's more valuable to us to have a pot of money that when one of the people we love gets in a pickle, we can sit down and help them out.

19:51George Kamel:The weak can't help the weak. So you get to a place of strength, it gives you a lot of opportunity to make impact.

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21:39George Kamel:Let's go talk to Monica in Indianapolis. What's up, Monica?

21:45Dr. John Delony:Hi, how are you guys?

21:47George Kamel:I'm good. What's up with you?

21:49Dr. John Delony:I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love you. I love you. And my sister loves you, George.

21:55George Kamel:Oh, that's sweet. Why doesn't your sister love me? All right. I get it. I get it. I get it. It's been happening since high school. All right, so what's up?

22:04Dr. John Delony:So, yeah, I've been having conflict with my husband. I work full-time, he works full-time, and then he also has a second job, a second part-time, a second job that's part-time, excuse me. And we've been thus far using his income from his part-time job as extra principal payments towards the mortgage. But he now, starting in March, wants to use that income towards investing in crypto. And I'm not on board.

22:37George Kamel:Well, that's an oxymoron. Awesome.

22:40Dr. John Delony:I'm not on board, and we just have a lot of conflict on it. So I wanted to get your guys' thoughts. I'm a bit afraid of being controlling because I grew up in a home where my mother was very controlling and wore the pants in the house. and I don't want to be like that.

23:00George Kamel:You're not being controlling. If my wife said, hey, I know we got debt to pay down. I'm going to go gamble in Vegas instead. Are you okay with that? I think it's wise as a spouse to say, that's not a good idea. Those are opposing goals. What about the last two months with crypto has made your husband be like, you know what, I think I need to get in on this.

23:22Dr. John Delony:I know he has a friend who's in on it And he claims and his friend claims that he's very successful in it.

23:33George Kamel:Recently successful? Because it went down 50%. 50%. It's lost 50 % of its value in the last two months. Which makes me think, well, maybe he's trying to buy the dip. Everyone's going, now's the time, man. It's going to climb back up to$100 ,000. And maybe it does. I'm not here to play back the tape a year from now and be wrong. That's fine. I just think there is a guaranteed outcome of paying down your mortgage. There's a guaranteed interest rate, which is your mortgage interest rate that you're making by paying down this mortgage. So really what this is, there's a difference in risk tolerance and you guys have different definitions of winning.

24:09George Kamel:So you're just not on the same page. You value different things right now in your marriage. Okay. So it's really a conversation about unity. And he thinks, well, this is our path to financial freedom. and you're going, nope, my financial freedom looks like less risk, not more. And keeping this conversation, the fight about crypto, you're never going to get below the surface of the water. You're all going to make a lot of splashes and you're going to take in a lot of water up your nose, but you're never going to get to the actual issue, which is under the water, which is, hey, we made an agreement that we wanted to never owe anybody any money again.

24:46George Kamel:And you're violating that agreement. okay that's that's the real issue this is a trust issue right yes definitely and often um i wonder if your mom ended up wearing the pants because that's who she was or if she ended up because over time she felt like she had to

25:10Dr. John Delony:yeah um i still don't want to be like that because i unfortunately like resent her way more than my dad when it comes to what they did with me financially as a child.

25:21George Kamel:I got that. And that's why it's imperative for you to not fight this on the surface. Don't engage in a proxy war. This is not about crypto. This is about him feeling like you can't tell me what to do. This is about him feeling bored. This is him feeling prideful FOMO, right? Fear of missing out. And this is about you saying, hey, we made a deal. And you're violating our core. or like have the true conversations underneath the thing.

25:49Dr. John Delony:Okay.

25:51George Kamel:But just for whatever it's worth, George and I are 100 % on your side on this one.

25:56Dr. John Delony:Oh, thank you.

25:57George Kamel:I've never won against a crypto bro yet. So just know, I don't think this is going to be easy to win him over because he is so convinced that you guys are missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime. Right? And George gave you the best. I just view this as sitting at a blackjack table in Vegas, and the house has won four times in a row, and the guy next to you is like, dude, they can't win five. This is it. Let's go all in. Put all your chips on. And they might, right? Maybe you win this time, but maybe you don't. I just talked to a caller. The wife found out about some financial infidelity. He took out a HELOC,$250 ,000, put it into crypto, lost it all.

26:46George Kamel:Wow. He claims he hit the sell short button instead of sell, which we all know is a lie. And so this is what it leads to. I'm not saying this will be your husband, but there's a level of like fear, greed, pride that lead to the risk meter being broken, which leads to really bad financial problems. And so paying off your house, nobody calls in saying, oh my gosh, worst decision of our life. We are deeply in debt. They're not. You're debt free. And so it's an opposing goal that you guys have. And I would get to the bottom and say, hey, what are you really hoping crypto will do for us? Is it quick wealth?

27:21George Kamel:Is it freedom? Is it the security? Is it FOMO? And then share your why. Hey, paying off the house for me makes me feel safe, makes me feel stable. And the security matters more to me than the potential of making money. And if you want to be a gangster, you can say, hey, we pay this house off and we get this much cash in the bank? You can use all your fun money to buy some crypto. I like that compromise. Here's$25 ,000 to go buy as much crypto as you think you can get. Once we're in baby step seven and we're already investing 15 % of our income into retirement, now we can go play. Now you can use your fun money to go do this.

27:56George Kamel:How much is left on the mortgage?

28:02Dr. John Delony:$244 ,000.

28:03George Kamel:Okay, and how much are you guys paying extra right now? What's your total payment?

28:08Dr. John Delony:Our mortgage payment is$2 ,400 and we've been paying double.

28:17George Kamel:Nice. $4 ,800? Yes. That's awesome. And so based on that timeline, when will you guys pay

28:23Dr. John Delony:this off um if we keep paying double it would be paid off um four years within the next within the

28:33George Kamel:next six years okay my guess is he goes man six years is a long time to be paying double it would be easier if i could 10x my money and put it into crypto and then we could pay off the mortgage. Is that his thinking?

28:49Dr. John Delony:I think so, yes.

28:51George Kamel:He wants to shortcut this and speed up the process. Okay. I always go back to this proverb because it's so grounding for me. It's Proverbs 13, 11. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. And you know what get-rich-quick is? It's wealth gained hastily. And when you do it little by little, you tend to lower your risk, increase your peace, and you stick with it. You're not going to make any rash decisions when you work really hard to get this money or pay down the debt. You're not going back in because you sacrificed for it. I can't imagine how many people who have leveraged their souls and watched it all get cut in half the last couple of months.

29:32George Kamel:Oh, yeah. Like, I don't have a penny in crypto, but even it makes my stomach hurt just thinking. It's 24-7. At least the stock market closes. You could be up at 3 a.m. watching it go up and down yeah and so for me it's just not worth i got other things to be anxious about don't need one more to add to the list i'm good i got a dog on two legs right now so let's worry about the real thing you got a dog on wheels that's true he does have a wheelchair now thanks john for bringing it up appreciate that not not a lot of people can say hey you know what i got a dog on wheels at least it's not a tesla you have one of those too i do even oh for two even better What else you got, George?

30:12George Kamel:I don't have any crypto, so that's the good news. But here's the thing. People think we are anti-crypto. What we are is anti-get-rich-quick, anti-greed, anti-pride, anti-destroying your marriage. Anti-doing things out of order. Yeah. There's a time and a place to have fun. As much crypto as you want. After you've taken the existential risk of your home getting taken away, of your cars getting taken away, of your ability to take care of your family getting taken away. Replace this with sports betting, whatever you want. It's just there's a risk here. It's speculation. It's unwise, and it's not investing.

30:47George Kamel:And there's way better ways to access peace. Yeah. All day long.

31:31George Kamel:We'll see you next time.

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33:19George Kamel:What's up, Terry?

33:21Dr. John Delony:Hi, thanks for taking my call.

33:23George Kamel:Of course, thanks for calling. What's up?

33:25Dr. John Delony:So I'm just looking for a little bit of advice. I'm 60 years old. I just ended a career in which I'm receiving a pension. And I've started a second career, which I'm hoping to work for about the next 10 years. And I'm just wanting to make sure I'm on the right track as far as what I should be investing over the next 10 years. Very cool. What's your new side hustle?

33:48George Kamel:I mean, it's not even a side hustle. So what's your new career?

33:51Dr. John Delony:Yeah, I'm consulting. Excellent. So I started in LLC. I'm debt-free except for my house. I only owe about 60 on my house. But all I have right now is that pension. It's about$47 ,000 a year. And I know that's not going to be enough. And I'll tell you, I don't have anything else because of a couple of things. First, I just found you guys a few years ago. But I also have a special needs adult fund. So throughout, he's in his 30s. So throughout the years, when things come up, and every time I think I have a little bit of money to set aside, something comes up, right? So then I have to spend, or I do spend.

34:28Dr. John Delony:So here I am, and I'm getting a little worried because he continues to have needs. But I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. So I have a$47 ,000 pension. My gross income is about$130 ,000 to$150 ,000 a year. I have expenses from my business of about$30 ,000, I'd say. And I'm just trying to figure out how much do I put aside, how much do I try to invest between now and then to feel comfortable. I feel like it should be – like my goal should be about$300 ,000.

35:02George Kamel:In an investment account? Yeah. Okay, at$70 ,000. So that's your goal. And you still have the mortgage. and the goal for, I would say, let's go into retirement completely debt-free, house and everything. And so I would be investing 15 % of your awesome income while paying down extra on the house. And in no time, you're going to pay off that house with this income, right? In the next few years, it's gone, which means the following seven years, we can now max out retirement options. Like for you, a self-employed person, a solo 401k.

35:36Dr. John Delony:So I tried to ask my tax person and my investment guy about that, and they both were just like, you don't need that.

35:42George Kamel:Those are complicated. What did they say you need?

35:46Dr. John Delony:They have me right now, and I rolled some 403B money into a SEP IRA.

35:53George Kamel:Okay, that works too. I like the solo 401K because the contribution limits are massive, especially for someone your age because you have catch-up contributions. Mm-hmm. So you're talking, I think it's$80 ,000 this year for someone in your shoes? Okay. Which is insane. You can really catch up on retirement with those kind of numbers. And so I would look into that as an option on top of your IRA. Terry, I'm going to ask George a question on your behalf, okay? He's smarter than I am at this stuff. So, Terry, how old are you again? 60. 60. All right, George, my gut tells me that if I was in her situation and I suddenly stumbled on, not stumbled on, I created$130 ,000 to$150 ,000 in extra value, right?

36:43George Kamel:So in New Hampshire, I'm going to guess you'll take home 80 of that after taxes, and then you're going to have 30 of that off the top. So you're going to have$50 ,000. I would feel an intense internal pressure to not put a penny in retirement until I could just throw everything and get that house taken off. Like clear my house at 60 grand, work maniacally to get that risk taken off. So I've got that taken care of. And then I would spend the next however many years just socking every penny away and trying to live off that 47? Could I find a world where I just condensed my expenses, my travel, all that kind of stuff, lived off that pension, and I just started saving everything?

37:30George Kamel:Is that bad? I wouldn't say it's bad. I think either way, if you did it on paper, you'll kind of get to that finish line either way. But if you're tracking through the baby steps, it's 15 % until the house is paid off, and then we're maxing out retirement. And so I like the idea of you flexing this investment muscle? Because you really haven't. It's been the pension the whole time. And so you'll get used to not seeing that money in your bank account. Instead, it's going towards your future. And I can crunch the numbers for you here. Let's say you pay off the house in three years. Could you pay it off by 63, put 20 grand a year towards it?

38:02George Kamel:Yeah, I can. And then after that, the mortgage is freed up on top of the money you can throw. How much could you throw a month after that if you keep making what you're making? Three grand a month? I mean, at least. Okay, so$3 ,000 a month from$63 ,000 to$70 ,000, you'll have$362 ,000 at our 10 % rate of return.

38:22Dr. John Delony:And then I just let that sit, really.

38:24George Kamel:Yeah, if you let it sit. I mean, what we've seen in the stock market, the rule of 72, it'll double. If you get a 10 % rate of return, that money would double every 7.2 years. So if you didn't need it, you could live off of your pension for a few years. It's just going to continue to grow. And if that's in a Roth 401k, it's going to be completely tax-free because you used after-tax dollars to fund it.

38:46Dr. John Delony:Okay.

38:46George Kamel:So think about that. It's like net income,$360 ,000. And then if you create a special needs trust.

38:53Dr. John Delony:This isn't like pie in the sky.

38:55George Kamel:No, I would tell you if you were way out of line. But you told me your goal is$300 ,000 in that investment account plus your pension. You will be okay. Okay. And if you do$4 ,000 a month, you'll have$483 ,000. grand. And so you can play around with the numbers using our investment calculator to kind of figure out what that future is going to look like. And I would create a special needs trust for my child that if something happened...

39:18Dr. John Delony:I'll need to find out more about that because I feel like I never have enough money to do that.

39:23George Kamel:Okay. Yeah, I would dig into that. But if you end up with 400K in retirement funds or retirement accounts plus your pension, and I don't know how pensions work with trust and with special needs trust. I don't know whether it would be transferable or not. There's survivor benefits, something like that. But I would dig in and get every bit of that information. And by the way, some of that panic is the wrong word, but that growing, gnawing, it's tiny right now, but it's getting bigger, that sense of angst, right? Like you're 60 and then you're going to blink and you're going to be 70 and your special needs child will be 40.

39:57George Kamel:That it feels like guilt almost, like I need to take care of him. What am I doing? I didn't make enough money. and you start like a lot of that type of angst is quenched when you have real information.

40:10Dr. John Delony:So I'm going to hit the nail on the head with that because that's why I'm feeling a little bit frantic about that exact thing you just said.

40:16George Kamel:So finding somebody and saying, I want to learn about this. And here's the words I use now. I want you to teach me like I'm a ninth grader. and I ask folks that about any purchase I'm making if I'm going on a hunting trip if I want to learn about this electric circuit thing I want to learn how to work on the lawnmower I ask people teach this to me like I'm in ninth grade and I walk away learning how to actually do this thing okay and at least even if there's no way you're going to leave that conversation feeling great, right? Like, oh, he's going to be like, you're going to realize, oh, I got a decade's worth of work to do, but you'll have real information and an actual lit path on what direction to take.

41:06Okay.

41:06George Kamel:I think you're going to feel a whole lot better when this is knocked out. I would reach out to a couple of state attorneys in your area and just get a feel and go with the one that you like, that you trust and have them explain it to you and have them walk you through what is this going to cost to set up? It might be a few thousand bucks, but you will sleep so much better at night knowing that you've taken care of your family and now we're on track for retirement. And George, this goes, um, when it comes to finances, when it comes to retirement, when it comes to future, um, that angst that we, that we all feel and the closer you get to the third and fourth quarter of your life, the bigger that anxiety gets, you cannot avoid it or work around it.

41:42George Kamel:There's one path only and it's through it, right? And often that path is lit with real information. And so getting real information on a special needs trust, using the Ramsey retirement calculator to say, how many dollars will equal this many dollars, right? Getting facts on paper because your emotions will cloud your judgment and you'll feel overwhelmed. All the time. And facts on paper give you a path forward.

42:32Dr. John Delony:Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

42:45George Kamel:Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. They don't know what to do next.

43:05Dr. John Delony:Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. So she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly the two options.

43:19George Kamel:And take care of your dadgum family. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. To just miss you.

43:30Dr. John Delony:That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

44:02George Kamel:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel. Take in your calls. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to H-Tone and talk to Gary. What up, Gary? Hey, guys. How are you? We're good, my brother. What's up with you?

44:22Dr. John Delony:Good. Oh, not too much, really. I enjoy the show. My question is, I have been happily married for coming up on 26 years. You know, I hit the wife lottery. We've been sort of financially very fortunate during our marriage. And, you know, at this point, we're in a very good place financially. But, you know, we have never really followed or kind of strictly adhered to any sort of budget. during that entire time. You know, I have tried, you know, throughout the years, you know, at various points to, you know, get my wife on board with at least sort of looking and following some sort of budget. But, you know, probably mostly my fault.

45:26Dr. John Delony:Those, you know, those discussions just end up in arguments. And, you know, I just wonder at this stage, at this point in our lives, I'm, you know, considering, you know, I'm looking at retirement, hopefully in the next few years of the ability to retire. You know, is it is it worth it to continue to try and fight that battle? And, you know, you know, it's sort of if we may do and gotten by with the way we've been doing it, is it worth it to try and, you know, get that trying to continue to get her on board?

46:02George Kamel:I have like a physical aversion to the words just getting by.

46:12Dr. John Delony:Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say, you know, maybe that's the wrong word as far as, you know, we're just in a, you know, we're in a good place.

46:24George Kamel:Have y 'all just out-earned your spending for all of your marriage? Pretty much. Okay. Pretty much. So let me ask you this.

46:30Dr. John Delony:That's just been me on a single, you know, and that's maybe just being lucky on how we are. It's me on a single salary that whole time. But, yeah.

46:38George Kamel:So just talking to you and me and George and a couple million people, just us three guys. Why do you want her on a budget?

46:51Dr. John Delony:Well, you know, so it's, of course, you know, as we consider retirement, you know, the spigot. Yep. The earnings spigot is going to turn off. And, you know, we want to, you know, frankly, we want to be, you know, I want to be able to sort of stress-free, live the retirement we, you know, we both want.

47:14George Kamel:So if you sit down with her. Yeah. And talk about a budget as a path to. And I'm going to use language that Texas males don't use. Okay. Right. If you sat down with your wife and said, hey, we're heading into retirement. Our life is about to change dramatically. Time-wise, financially, all of it. And I won't feel safe in my own skin unless we have a plan with our money. Would you join me in that? Versus her feeling like a budget is you trying to control her. Right. If you were open and honest about, hey, I want to solve for peace in the fourth quarter of our life, the back half of the third quarter and the fourth quarter, and that means here's what peace looks like for me.

48:11George Kamel:I'd love to hear what peace looks like for you. And then how can we agree together on here's how many dollars are going to come in from our investments, from our retirement accounts, et cetera. And here's what it costs to live our life. and just live in that reality as a way to have peace and inside your own chest to feel safe. If she won't join you in that, if she looked at you and rolled her eyes and was like, I'm driving this Suburban, I don't care what you say. Then A, you know what she truly thinks about you. And B, yeah, there is a futility to that. Because you've married somebody who doesn't care about you, really.

48:53George Kamel:doesn't care about her doesn't care about anything other than what i want right this second my hope is that's not the case my hope is for 20 years when you've brought up budgeting it's been about you're spending too much why'd you buy this we didn't need that we don't even have a budget and then she just decides to to go to war back with you right she associates the word budget with stressful money fights complaint yet another complaining husband i do all of this so i deserve this and you come home and you got another box from amazon right that kind of fight and i don't know if that's the case does that sound familiar

49:25Dr. John Delony:yeah yeah i think i think that's i think that's fair you know i've listened to you guys and i've tried to you know the last time i brought it up you know it was sort of i i statements yeah it was on a vacation you know it's about a trip and you know it came up last minute and And, you know, I said, no, we can't do that. And I tried to go back and later explained, you know, I am concerned about, you know, how we do that. But she sort of went back to, you know, my first reaction, which was no, and said, well, that really caused stress. And stress went out the way I, you know, so I don't, you know, there's equal blame on.

50:15Dr. John Delony:Sure. Equal blame. So, so.

50:17George Kamel:I don't want to make it sound like it's just her. No, of course not. But own that. Own that up front. I'm sure. I have not done a great job of talking about this for the last 25 years. Yeah. Are there, I guess, are there kind of tools or resources that I should read or, you know,

50:39Dr. John Delony:I don't, maybe I'm just a bad at it.

50:43George Kamel:I think it's just a different approach. I don't think you need to read a whole book. I'm writing the book right now, actually. I just left a meeting right before this show. I'm writing that book right now. It's just not how it won't come out until October, I think. But so it's not in the world that I know. Just save the word budget for the very end into the how are we going to do this? All right. We'll just make a financial plan. It happens to be called a budget. But start with the vision, the dream, the fear. What do we want our life to look like? Man, we've just floated through and we've done really well.

51:09George Kamel:But I have not done a good job leading us in this area and really crafting a vision for what's going to happen. when I don't want to work or can't work anymore. So how old are you guys?

51:19Dr. John Delony:So I'm 53. She is a little bit older than that. Okay. What's your net worth? And so probably about$5.5 million to$6 million.

51:36George Kamel:Amazing. So you guys are living pretty good.

51:40Dr. John Delony:We, well, that's, you know, and I guess it's, you know, just too challenging. You could retire today, right? I probably could, but, you know, it's sort of, you know, believe it or not, just you look back and it's, you know, it's an obscene amount of spending.

52:00George Kamel:Well, are things feeling tight? Because you can still say, hey, we've done really well. It's crazy that we've worked this hard, have this level of net worth, and things still feel tight. I would love to have extra margin.

52:11Dr. John Delony:Yeah, right now, I mean, absolutely, they do not feel tight.

52:16George Kamel:So a budget for her isn't a matter of survival. A budget for y 'all isn't a matter of survival. It's really a tool to bring y 'all together and say, what do we want the next 25 years to look like? And that's a totally different conversation. That's a different path. It's a transparency and clarity tool. Take her on a half day retreat and say, I want to plan our next 25 years. And I'd love to hear what you want that to look like.

53:29George Kamel:Transcription by CastingWords

53:42George Kamel:let's talk to Daniel in Des Moines, Iowa. What's up, Daniel? Hey guys.

53:48Dr. John Delony:So good to talk to you.

53:49George Kamel:You too, brother. What's up, man?

53:51Dr. John Delony:Just a, hopefully a quick question here, but, um, I am looking at taking a position in full-time ministry later this year. and I'm wondering, number one, is it morally okay for me to take a religious exemption from Social Security and Medicare? And then number two, if it is, is it wise kind of considering, I guess, the circumstances I'm in?

54:19George Kamel:What are your circumstances?

54:21Dr. John Delony:So nothing huge. I mean, me and my wife, we're debt-free besides the house. we're already investing 15 % into retirement, but we have a baby on the way. And the other thing, too, is going into a position like this, I'd actually probably be taking about a 20K pay cut. So those are kind of it. And the other thing, too, I guess, is I wouldn't be hired on as a W-2. It would be a 1099. So I'd be paying the full extent of Social Security. And Medicare, I think it's around 15 % if I were not to take that exemption.

55:05George Kamel:So it's just like you've already made this choice. There's a lot of reasons this is a tough move. Yeah.

55:15George Kamel:There's a lot to think about, too, of what you're giving up here. And listen, I love the idea of not having to pay all these extra taxes for a system that isn't giving me great returns. but you got to think about things like term life insurance you get strong term life in place if something were to happen to you strong long-term disability insurance because you'd lose that with ssdi long-term care insurance i've got yeah and i've got the long term i got i got where i

55:40Dr. John Delony:guess i should say i got term life insurance we're good there at the long-term disability that is one thing i was i was thinking about too um but yeah yep what would i what i've

55:50George Kamel:I'm going to be honest I have a bias to this question and my bias is not representative of reality it's just my experience and that is I've just sat with too many 60 and 70 year old pastors who lived on property lived in a church house and got paid pennies and they have zero nothing and so the discipline it would take for me personally to never waver in saving for future me and future wife and future family. I can say I don't think I would have that type of discipline. And so while these programs are a mess, an absolute dumpster fire, they are still something. sure right and my fear is you're not doing this not because you have another long-term plan in place you're doing this because you're trying to make this job that you really feel called to take financially palatable today and that's making a decision for yeah if i'm definitely trying to

57:06Dr. John Delony:bridge the gap between between the uh i'm getting now anyway and the pay i would be getting yeah I'd definitely make it a lot easier.

57:13George Kamel:And again, that's solving a problem for today you, but it's really leaving future you high and dry. Yeah, if you're having to justify this by saying, well, if I take the exemption, I'll get 10 % back, but you're not going to be investing the difference that you're saving if it's already tight. And if your income stays pretty low for the rest of your life, all to get an exemption, well, that was a terrible plan.

57:39Dr. John Delony:Right, right. So, and as I was looking into this and looking into all the different things anyway, tax benefit-wise anyway, like housing allowances and all this stuff too, I think it would be palatable anyway to actually keep investing just about the same amount we are right now. and if I did take that exemption, it wouldn't be so much as a$20 ,000 pay cut as probably more of a$10 ,000 to$12 ,000 pay cut, which is still, and my wife works too, so she's making okay money too. And so I'm kind of, yeah, I might just be trying to justify this all, but yeah, that's kind of what I'm in.

58:26George Kamel:So let me ask you this hard question. Can you afford to do this?

58:31Dr. John Delony:Yeah, it would be tighter, but we've looked into it, and I've held this call for probably the last five years. And even if I was to completely take a step away from the money side of it, too, for our future family, I think this would probably be still the right thing to do. just because of... I know there's definitely different stresses in ministries, but the job I'm in now, I haven't been happy with since I got into it six or seven years.

59:05George Kamel:Oh, there's few stresses like full-time ministry stress. I grew up in the home of ministry. It's chaotic. And it's noble and it's worthy and it's awesome, right? I have a gut reaction growing up in this household, a gut reaction to groups of church leaders who pay ministers very low and expect them and their families to show up in certain ways that are financially impossible, right? So that's my own baggage. I won't put that on you. Is this new job going to give you opportunity? Will you have time? I know a lot of ministers do stuff on the side. My dad had a mowing business on the side for seasons, or he did janitorial work to help make the bills during those seasons.

59:50George Kamel:Do you have opportunities where you could do that too?

59:54Dr. John Delony:Yes, yes. So I'm working as an electrician full-time right now. So outside of that, there's definitely side work I could be doing on the side if we really needed it to. And the other thing, too, that makes me a little bit more comfortable with this is I've seen the same as you. Ministry positions typically do not get paid very well. This one is definitely on the, I think, the higher end of what would normally get paid for this position. So it's definitely more palatable in that way, too. But yeah, there is other ways I could be making income outside of this.

1:00:31George Kamel:And again, I want to say this out loud. We don't do ministry for money. I mean, like, we don't do it to get rich, right? And like, that's like get struck by lightning kind of thoughts. Like, I want to do this so I can get rich. That's not why we do this. But also, there is a reality. It's very, very expensive to be alive today. it's very very expensive to have a child and to feed and clothe that kid these days right and educate that kid it's just it's insane and so there is a reality to it also

1:00:58Dr. John Delony:right yeah and that's one of the other things that is kind of just weighing on this decision anyways we got a baby on the way coming in September and it's our first one anyway and you know obviously I want to take care of my family too

1:01:12George Kamel:and maybe you take this job and you keep hustling on the side for a season to stack cash. Right. And you and your wife shake hands and say, we're going to have a really busy six months until the smoke clears on our new job, our new life, our new... We can do all the math on paper we want, but there's a lived reality when this is the only amount of money in the checking account, and this is the bills we have, right? And you add a new mouth to feed on top of that. And your wife comes home and says, hey, I just can't stomach going to work anymore. and do we have do we have are we setting ourselves up for we're got this new value is going to emerge and we can't afford to take that value right because you have to work because i took this job like so it removes your options and flexibility that's right that's right so it might be that hey i'm going to keep working electrical work on the weekends and i'm going to keep working electrical work on the evenings and doing odd jobs and whatever so that we can be as flexible as possible so we can have peace in our house.

1:02:13Right.

1:02:14George Kamel:And by the way, you'll have to pay Social Security on that side work. And so you'll never escape the system, unfortunately.

1:02:20Dr. John Delony:Definitely knew that.

1:02:22George Kamel:Again, I always want to tell you, like, what would I do in my house? I would pay into Social Security and Medicaid. And so, George and you? Yeah. Your next steps would be just calculate how much you need to invest yearly to replace all the benefits, evaluate your insurance, disability, life insurance, make sure that your organization meets all the IRS rules to do this and then only proceed if you know this thing is airtight you've checked it 27 ways to Sunday and then you can move forward but I would not just go sounds good, did not have to pay those taxes, I'll take it

1:03:10Thank you.

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1:05:01George Kamel:Our team here at Ramsey is super excited. We built a new free AI tool called Ask Ramsey that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. A lot of themes here. We got creating and managing budgets. A lot of questions around that. How to deal with credit card debt. Retiring versus continuing to work. And the number one question this week was around retirement. What was it, John? How much do I need to save and when can I expect to retire? You tell me. Well, and this is kind of awesome because off air, because I have your cell phone number, I've called you several times and been like, hey, I have a retirement question or what about this fund?

1:05:40George Kamel:Should I move this money over here? And not everybody has your cell phone number. Now I just text John back with the link to RamseySolutions.com. I'm not your human Google, John. But this is like having George or Dave or me or Rachel or Ken, like Jade in your pocket. Because it's literally, it's built on things we've said on the show, all of our articles that we've written. And so this is really good. I want to take this for a test drive and see how it does with this question. How much do I need to save and when can I expect to retire? Again, this is a free thing. You guys can jump on ramsysolutions.com and use that Ask Ramsey search bar to ask your question.

1:06:13George Kamel:So I'm going to pull this up. Our team's going to pull up my screen here. So if I fat finger something, I'm sorry. There's no Wizard of Oz today, just me. All right, let's see what it spits out. And what's really cool, John, is it analyzes the question and asks me follow-up questions. So it's a real conversation, just like you'd have on the Ramsey show. And we're going to see what kind of follow-up questions it asks. I'm guessing it's going to need to know, well, how much do we have saved? When do we want to retire? All right. I want to kick some stuff. I'll kick some numbers to you, okay? Okay.

1:06:38George Kamel:So it's going to, yeah, let me scroll to the bottom here. So it's walking me through how to calculate your nest egg. If you want to have this much, here's how to calculate that. And at the bottom, it says, what do you think your monthly budget would look like in retirement? All right, let's pretend we have, I'll put a big number up there. Let's say we were going to have$7 ,000 a month in expenses. Okay. Monthly budget,$7 ,000. And let's say between me and my wife, we have$500 ,000 in retirement. Okay. And let's pretend I could go back in time and I'm, I don't know, 35 years old. Got it. Must be nice.

1:07:12George Kamel:And I want to invest 500 bucks a month. I will invest 500 a month. Okay, let's see if it can figure out how much we really need to create this nest egg, live off of the income once we are work optional or fully retired. And it's working its tail off here. Here we go, found five Ramsey resources. It recapped our situation, our monthly retirement goal, and it says, here we go. It's calculating based off a 7 % to 8 % withdrawal here. it's showing us our target nest egg is about 1.1 to 1.2 million dollars not including social security or any other income stream so it says are you on track right now you already have 500 000 saved and it's going to continue to grow it will reach about 2.7 million in 30 years at age 65 that's pretty incredible so it's telling us we are on track and if you invest more you could have more and that makes me feel really good thanks ask ramsey yeah not bad that easy that's pretty That's pretty great.

1:08:09George Kamel:Not a lot of people can get through the phone lines, and Googling things is going to send you into 19 ,000 rabbit holes. That is not the Ramsey advice that you trust. So go check out for yourself. Go to askyourquestionramseysolutions.com. You'll see the search bar there. It says Ask Ramsey, or you can click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go out to Santa Fe, New Mexico, one of my favorite places in the United States, and talk to John. What's up, John?

1:08:35Dr. John Delony:Hey, John, and hey, George. How's it going?

1:08:37George Kamel:We're doing great, brother. How can we help, man?

1:08:41Dr. John Delony:So I'm buying my first vehicle.

1:08:44George Kamel:Sorry, you're breaking up on us, John. Yeah, you're breaking up for me. Okay. Are you inside of a tunnel? All right, we might have to try you again later. All right, John, we tried our best. We'll try to get you on a clear line here. I will go out to Christy in St. Louis instead. Let's talk. What number is she? Four. What's up, Christy?

1:09:04Dr. John Delony:Hi, how are you guys?

1:09:06George Kamel:Remarkable. How are you?

1:09:07Dr. John Delony:I'm doing pretty well. I just had a question. I am 28 and my fiance is 26. We are planning to get married in like April of 2027. And I'm trying to figure out kind of how we're going to pay for that. We did get a gift from his parents that they're going to spend about$25 ,000 to help us with the wedding. And we're budgeting about$40 ,000 just with extra costs and all that kind of stuff. But I have about$69 ,000 to$70 ,000 in student debt. We don't have any other debt. And I'm wondering if we should use part of that gift money to put down towards my loans or if we should put all of it down towards the wedding and then cash flow the rest or put all of it down towards my loans and cash flow the whole wedding.

1:09:59Dr. John Delony:George may disagree with me.

1:10:00George Kamel:I would not take a gift from my fiancé's parents to pay off my student loans. I would use that money towards the cost of your wedding

1:10:09Dr. John Delony:we haven't told them that's what we're thinking about

1:10:12George Kamel:I would not do that if I gave my kids yeah I wouldn't do that if they said hey this is y 'all free and clear to use however you want that's a different story if they said hey we want y 'all to start your marriage off debt free we're going to pay your student loans that's another thing but them saying hey we want to support we know you guys are struggling and you all are working really hard. We're going to give you$25 ,000 to help pay for a nice wedding. And you all are like, cool, we're going to use that to paint the house. That would not be cool. That's my take on it. What do you think, George?

1:10:47George Kamel:No, I agree. If it was going to clear your debt today and it frees you guys up to cash flow, this whole thing, then I would be like, okay, that makes sense. You're essentially just trading the money one way or another. But I would just use this money for the wedding because you need it. it's not like you just have$100 ,000 sitting around. Yeah, the option you're not mentioning is you and your fiance deciding we're going to do our wedding for$25 ,000 and essentially putting$15 ,000 towards your student loans.

1:11:18Dr. John Delony:Yeah, that was another option. The only problem is we did put a deposit down on a place. It's an all-inclusive in Florida, which is where we're wanting to get married because our families live out there. and it's going to be about$28 ,000 for the actual wedding but that's only if it's 100 people and we all know that that's probably not going to happen, like 120 and then they charge per head so we're trying to buffer that a little bit. We're expecting it to not cost the$40 ,000 but we really just want to have a safe buffer. Okay, but hold on. We're okay.

1:11:48George Kamel:You are telling this story as though this thing is happening to you and I want you and your fiancé to get back in the driver's seat of your own lives. The only things that are going to happen with this wedding are what y 'all sign your name to and what y 'all allow. It's true. And so if there's only 100 spaces, there is only 100 spaces. And we're going to have to be grownups until Aunt Edna's cousin's sister's dog's roommate, you can't come.

1:12:20Dr. John Delony:Yeah, and I'm very okay with that. Like, I'm very much like a boundary, and I don't need these cousins at my wedding, but he's on the other side. He's got a really big family. And I can guarantee you

1:12:32George Kamel:his parents'$25 ,000 investment is going to... They're strings attached. They're strings attached. And Edna will be on the invite list. And so that might mean... What are you in for this wedding venue if you canceled today?

1:12:45Dr. John Delony:We put$500 down for the deposit. All right. I would much rather lose$500 than$15 ,000.

1:12:54George Kamel:and we could pay a$500 stupid tax and say, whoa, let's get back in the driver's seat.

1:13:01Dr. John Delony:Yeah. The only thing is though, like.

1:13:03George Kamel:I know you don't want to do it. I know. I know you don't want to do it, but here's the thing. I don't want to just do whatever I want to do and then take a gift and say, I have to do it this way because I was so out of control with my wants and my spending that I'm going to use this to cover up the last time I was out of control with my wants and my spending. I took out a

1:13:21Dr. John Delony:bunch of student loans well my student loans actually um i needed that because i got a master's in physician assistant studies so i make like a really good salary and i needed that for that for that job so what do you guys make a year once you're married so once we're married he'll be a captain in the air force so he's going to be making like 110 gross salary and i'm making the louis solver make right now which is like 100 and then i'll be making like 120 to 150

1:13:52George Kamel:Awesome. So you guys can knock out this debt quick once you're married. So that's good. And you should be able to cash flow the rest of the wedding without issue if you continue on. Right?

1:14:02Dr. John Delony:Yeah. Well, my thing, yeah, I was going to, right now I'm starting to hopefully bonus up my job because I have the ability to do that. So I'm right now putting down about$2 ,500 a month towards my loans. And then I'm putting down$4 ,000 a month when I start actually when I move in with him in like two months.

1:14:18George Kamel:Awesome.

1:14:18Dr. John Delony:So I'm going to be chunking it down, and I'm not going to be putting anything down towards the mortgage with him. He's going to cover the mortgage. So that's going to be a godsend. But then I was also thinking, like, to get Gazelle Intense, why don't I just also, in addition to my 50 hours a week, go pick up, you know, a DoorDash job. Yeah.

1:14:36George Kamel:Dude, before you're married, spend every spare moment you can stacking cash and getting this debt off.

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1:16:18George Kamel:Buying or selling your home is a big deal. Man, buying and selling a home makes me so anxious all the time. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And I can almost guarantee you, whatever you're reading on social media is not reflective of reality. We are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Here is real, honest data as of today. Medium home prices dipped a little below$400 ,000 last month, which is typical for this time of year. Mortgage rates also dipped to 5.44 in January. That's down from 6.27 last January, giving buyers some breathing room.

1:17:02George Kamel:And since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when you're trying to guess when home prices are going to drop or when rates are going to drop or whenever you think you can time the market. when you're ready to learn more about housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell your home with confidence go to ramsey solutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or youtube this is a great great resource i love it all right let's go back to santa fe new mexico and try john again hey john what's up Hey, how's it going?

1:17:39George Kamel:Much better. We can hear you well. What's up, dude?

1:17:43Dr. John Delony:The reception in this building is not very great. I'm doing good. So I am buying my first vehicle this coming up Monday. I'm buying it from a coworker at work. She is selling it for$2 ,000. The truck is worth about$3 ,000. I'm trying to figure out how much insurance coverage I should get on it. I've been checking different policies. I've been checking, you know, I get quotes from two or three different companies, trying to figure out which ones are better with, you know, claims and rates and all sorts of different things. It's just trying to figure out with the truck being worth so low, how much coverage should I get on it?

1:18:22George Kamel:Where are you at financially?

1:18:25Dr. John Delony:So I'm just started working at my first job within the past, I think I've been about here six months or so, six, seven months. So I have about a little over, I believe,$1 ,500 saved in my emergency fund. I have just under$4 ,000 in my car fund. So I have plenty of money for the truck and also for repairs. And then I have a pretty good main checking account as well. so I'm financially stable from where I'm at at the moment.

1:19:05George Kamel:Do you have any debt? I do not have any debt. Okay. So let's talk about your time. Can I just shout you out for getting a$2 ,000 truck and not getting your first job and going out and buying the biggest, dumbest truck you can get like I did? Good for you, bro. I didn't know those exist. My parents had taught me well. Can I ask what truck this is? Because I want it now.

1:19:23Dr. John Delony:Yes. It's a 2000 Toyota Tundra.

1:19:26George Kamel:Oh. Yes. Epic. Yes. Gen 1, dude. Did you get a pre-purchase inspection on it? They got an inspection a few months ago whenever they were first talking about selling it.

1:19:38Dr. John Delony:And so I know what needs to be fixed, and they've been doing some minor things like spark plugs and oil changes. That way all I really need to do are a couple major things.

1:19:45George Kamel:Okay, cool. And you have the money set aside for that. Yes. Bro, I have a Gen 1 Tundra, and I love it. I love it. Well done. So you're talking about how much coverage should you get because it's so cheap? Yes. All right. So the one you definitely need, it's non-negotiable, is your liability insurance. Correct. I like to go$250 ,000,$500 ,000,$250 ,000. That's your split on that. And that's because if you hit somebody, the chances of their car being$50 ,000 is... Yeah. That's$250 ,000 per person bodily injury,$500 ,000 per accident bodily injury, and$250 ,000 property damage. So that's the part that it doesn't matter what car you're driving, you need to protect everything else.

1:20:26George Kamel:Okay. So beyond that, we're talking comprehensive coverage, which is, you know, theft, fire, weather, all of that. If you're like, hey, I could probably cut this because I can replace the car. If it were to burn up, I can just go buy a different one. And then same with collision. If there was damage to your car from an accident, insurance isn't going to write you a check if you don't have that. So if the car is paid off, it's older and low value, which yours is, and you could replace it from savings, then I would do it. What you might want to do is hang on to get all of these coverages for now and then drop it once you're in a better place financially, once you have$10 ,000 in an emergency fund.

1:21:02George Kamel:Okay. Because you're riding it fairly tight between the money you have for the car fund and your emergency fund to where you get one more emergency on top of the car being done. Now we've got a real situation on our hands. So I would personally get it for peace of mind so I can sleep good, and once I'm doing a little better, more money in savings, then you might want to look at dropping Collision or Comprehensive. Okay.

1:21:26Dr. John Delony:And then also with the Collision Comprehensive, would it be a smart idea – because I'm using my car fund for repairs and also saving up for a new car, a better car. You know, a few years down the line, I'm going to pretty much ride this one to the ground if I can. So would it be better to get a$500 deductible or a$1 ,000 deductible?

1:21:48George Kamel:If you can swing the$1 ,000 deductible, it'll lower your premium. And so because you have the money and you could handle the extra$500 of risk, I would take that. Okay. And the one other thing you should look into is uninsured and underinsured motorist protection. you know if medical expenses if you're hit by an uninsured driver hit and run injuries we're seeing more and more of this sadly where the person driving the car didn't have insurance and so you're not getting anything so that's worth having and what i would do is jump on ramsey solutions.com insurance and we have trusted pros a whole network of them across the country including in santa fe that can help you price all of it out and say hey what would it be if i added this okay what if i took that away what coverage do you think i should have based on my situation They'll walk you through all of that so that you're confident in what coverage you're getting and getting you the best price because they'll shop the top companies.

1:22:39George Kamel:And, John, let me tell you in my house, I have a new fancy Tundra. I have my wife's car, and I have my old Gen 1 Toyota that we use out for hunting trips and stuff like that. I have full coverage on the two nicer cars. I have liability on the Tundra. And basically I'm just making a deal with the devil that if it wrecks, if I wreck it or somebody hits it, it's just gone. Okay. And so, but I do, even though I don't have a payment on the other cars, I do because those are nice and I want them to be replaced if something happens to them. So I pay more for that coverage. Now, I also want to tell you one more thing.

1:23:20George Kamel:I have a Gen 1 Tundra. I drove it for years before I spent crazy money trying to make it cool. Okay. I'm not interested in bells and whistles I know but dude this is like this is a drug once you put that first thing on it and then the second thing on it you're going to start seeing cool tundras everywhere you're going to be like I want to get new suspension I want to get bigger tires and so just continue to hold the line like you've done so far that would be awesome and by the way I have a feeling this car will outlast you so trying to drive it into the ground best of luck to you. Did you mention how many miles it has on it?

1:24:00George Kamel:It doesn't matter. Just over 300 ,000. Yes, I just wanted to know to let people, because they go, John, it's got 100 ,000 miles, it's going to burn up on the interstate tomorrow. Oh no. It's a Toyota, dude. We've driven the Alcan in our Toyota and Honda like three times, so I mean, and the most of them have over 200 or 300 miles on it, so yeah, we're used to that. Try to set a world record. Well, it's just not hard with those cars. I think someone did over 500 ,000. Oh, easy. It's pretty incredible. Yeah, well done. man well done um man you're a wise young man that's good for you very few young guys are thinking this way yeah most guys are picking up a thousand dollar truck payment a month not a two thousand dollar and by the way can we be honest this truck doesn't look nice not turning heads at the stoplight no except for bad reasons they're like oh my gosh no no there's there's tons of people who are like that's awesome it's rock and roll that's pretty rad but yeah he's not going to meet somebody and she'll be like i'm falling in love with you because of your truck that's not gonna happen here if somebody goes out with him he'll know oh she really likes me right it's not gonna be because his truck looks cool but man that's so wise for future him yeah and honestly a good you know 200 detail you'll feel like it's brand new to you it's pretty sweet that's exciting 200 detail where do you get those that's the going right in my neighborhood i don't know where you live john they probably have an upcharge for the family way more expensive than i got a good guy i got a good guy i love the mobile ones they come to the end of the driveway they get it done.

1:25:26George Kamel:For$200? Yeah. Well, maybe not. You have a gigantic truck. I have tiny toy cars. That is true. That's the difference. Tiny electric toy cars. There's a lot of square footage in your truck. Do they use a screen wiper to wipe off a Tesla? They use special gloves. It's so sensitive, just like me. I bet they do. That's another Hour of the Books. We'll be right back on The Ramsey Show.

1:26:17George Kamel:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Campbell. Campbell. Let's go out to Columbia, South Carolina and talk to Lee. What's up, Lee? Hey. Hi, John and George. How are we doing, brother? Good. How are you guys? We are doing all right, my man. How can we help? So I'm trying to break out of this paycheck to paycheck thing, and I'm looking for some advice. Excellent. I'm glad you called, man. Tell us more. What's your financial situation?

1:26:48Dr. John Delony:so long story short i owned a sawmill i produced railroad ties cross ties i lost my contract two years ago i went and got another job as a mechanic i'm making 1280 a week and i have three different loans with mortgage included the mortgage is 130 at 4.5 and i have 10 years left on it the second one is five years on a 4.5 45 000 left on it and then the last one is five years at 8.5 at 50 000 that was to clean up my line of credit that i had for the mill and then i have two credit cards,$1 ,2500,$1 ,2000,$8 ,000 that I loaned for my family, and then$5 ,000 miscellaneous. So my monthly payments, everything except food, like lights, mortgage, and the loan payments are$41.90 a month.

1:27:53Dr. John Delony:And I just can't get out of it. So what I'm considering is using the equity from my house. I bought it for$160 with seven acres just prior to COVID. And I talked with an auctioneer, and he thought he could probably get upwards of$400 for the property. So my question is, would you guys advise me to do that or hang in there and see what I can work out?

1:28:16George Kamel:What did you say your mortgage payment was?

1:28:19Dr. John Delony:It is roughly$1 ,300 a month.

1:28:22George Kamel:Okay. So it's about a quarter of your—now, that's not your take-home pay, the$1 ,280. Is that gross? Or is that what actually shows up? That's gross. That's gross. That's gross, yeah. So it's more than 25 % of your take-home pay, but it's not on fire. The mortgage isn't the problem. You're trying to sort of shortcut it and clean up the mess by just selling. Would you just go rent somewhere? Probably. Okay, because you wouldn't be in a spot to buy another place, I'm guessing, if you sold it. Now, you could clean up all the debt with the proceeds. You'd clean up the mortgage plus all the other debts, which add up to what?

1:28:56George Kamel:What's the total amount of debt you have? Not including the mortgage. $283, eh. $283 minus$133? Yeah. Okay, so you got$150 ,000 there. So, yeah, I mean, you got$150 ,000 of debt making$60 ,000 gross? Yes. Yeah, the math is not math in here unless there's something that we can sell or liquidate or use a bunch of savings that you have sitting around. Is there anything like that?

1:29:21Dr. John Delony:I have no savings. I do have my equipment still, and that's—I'm sure you don't—the lumber market is like murder. and so that tanks the value. I could possibly get$30 ,000 to$40 ,000 for my equipment, and that's about all the assets I have.

1:29:40George Kamel:Okay, so that would knock your debt down to maybe for lucky$110 ,000, but then we're still making$60 ,000. So if there's no room for growth with your income right now where you could double that, then selling the house would give you a nice, clean slate if you're ready to change your behavior. Well, we are. And by we, who else is involved? Yeah. My wife and I have two children and another one due any day. Wow. Well, congratulations. Well, thank you. Congratulations and lots of stress. No time like the present to clean this mess up. Yeah. Well, there's other people involved now. Is your wife staying home with the kids?

1:30:16Dr. John Delony:She is. And she she will be more than ready to start clean as well.

1:30:23George Kamel:Yeah. Could you go rent somewhere for a thousand bucks if you sold? Yes. Yes. Okay. You said that so quickly that I feel good about it. I would personally, in your shoes, I definitely would consider selling the house. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of variables in your life that are about to change. There's nothing you could sell. Your income's not going to go up drastically. I don't know that you could get seven side jobs. You could clean this up over the next few years. But I think with the stress of the baby on the way, it would just be so much more freeing to sell the property, rent for a while, and start to rebuild a solid foundation.

1:30:56George Kamel:And you said this property that you bought for$160 is now worth$400? Roughly, yes.

1:31:04Dr. John Delony:Our area has seen a rampant increase in commercial manufacturing and et cetera, and we're also close to an army base. So there's a lot of people looking for houses.

1:31:15George Kamel:Okay. I would not take the word of an auctioneer. Okay. I would go to ramsysolutions.com slash market and get with one of our real estate pros. Okay. Who will come in and do comps in the area, projections in the area. Because you may, your property sold at auction maybe at$400. It may sell in the housing market at$600. Okay. Okay.

1:31:44Dr. John Delony:Yeah, because I know a similar trailer house with an acre or two sold for$400, like very close to me.

1:31:53George Kamel:Yeah. Your area sounds a lot like what happened in Nashville a few years ago, and stuff got bananas. Right. And so I would sit down with a true real estate professional that you trust, and we have a whole network of them that I'd suggest you get with. That's who I got with when I sold and bought houses. So it's not, I'm not asking you to do something I wouldn't ask. I didn't do it with my own family. But get a true price on what this property will go for. And here's the other thing. You and your wife have to make an ironclad commitment. Because if this works, you're going to be sitting on, what,$250 ,000,$300 ,000 cash.

1:32:36George Kamel:You can sneeze and that money's going to be gone. Because suddenly she'll need a new car. You'll need to upgrade your truck. You're going to want to do this. and that money will just be gone. Y 'all will have to make an ironclad commitment that this money goes into retirement. This money goes into an emergency fund. We never, ever, ever, ever borrow money again, ever. And we have to learn to live on a budget with our$65 ,000 a year salary. Sure. Because you're going to feel rich for a minute. And bro, you're going to burn your, you're going to crack open your nest egg at a real young age with really young kids, man.

1:33:11George Kamel:You're going to be in a mess. Yeah. So the game plan -

1:33:14Dr. John Delony:We're both ready for something different. Good.

1:33:17George Kamel:So the game plan would be, if and when you sell, use the proceeds to pay down all of your debt. The money left over is going to become your emergency fund. Three to six months, I would lean towards six months. Single income family with three kids, I'd feel a whole lot better having six months of expenses saved up. And then beyond that, any money beyond even that, then it's, okay, we can start saving back up for down payment. Let's not get out of the housing market for too long, because guess what? The next house you buy is probably going to be a half million dollars. So you're going to need a giant down payment to make that payment work with your$60 ,000 income.

1:33:49George Kamel:Right. So that's the homework is we're going to put this all to good use. And like John said, no lifestyle creep. We're not having fun here. This was a reset. It was kind of like we went through like a bankruptcy and it's sobering. And now we want to do the right thing so that we're never in this position again.

1:34:04Dr. John Delony:Yeah. I mean, it just burns you down every day trying to get on it. We've made progress. We paid off a$13 ,000 credit card last year. but it's just, yeah.

1:34:14George Kamel:Yeah, I mean, you got a mountain ahead of you with that 150. And so that would, based on the math, it's a decade plus just to get rid of this. So I would sell, I would rebuild. I try to get that income up and you guys will survive this and be renting for a while.

1:34:42Thank you.

1:35:12George Kamel:do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramseysolutions.com slash careers.

1:35:46George Kamel:Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. Defaulted private student loans don't go away by ignoring them, but you can face them with a plan. Y-Refi helps you refinance into low fixed rate payments built around what you can afford so you can take control and get back on the baby steps. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey right now. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Abigail in Pennsylvania. My husband and I are at a crossroads and need your home buying advice. Should we buy a house that is affordable but not in a city that we love or rent for another year until we can afford to buy where we prefer to live?

1:36:33George Kamel:It's a no-brainer for me. It's the quickest question of the day ever. I'm renting for another year to get the thing I want. that's called delayed gratification. If there was some sort of like urgency, we have to move now for whatever reason, then move now. But then you're kind of stuck there. You don't want to be buying a house and selling a year later. That's going to cost you. So rent for another year. Buying a home is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make. So do it with caution and be planted there. I don't even have anything to add. That's just my, that's my take. One man's opinion, but I want to live somewhere that I enjoy living.

1:37:07George Kamel:It's not even that. Is that too much to ask, John? I want to live where I want to live. And if it's going to take one more year of sacrifice, then outstanding. So be it. I'm glad they didn't say, or should we just buy a house now we can't afford? That was my fear. That's a very different question. Yeah. But if you're willing to wait, just do it right the first time. Let's go out to Philadelphia where we were born and raised and talk to Melody. What's up, Melody?

1:37:32Dr. John Delony:Hi, how are you?

1:37:33George Kamel:Outstanding. How are you?

1:37:35Dr. John Delony:We're doing great, thanks. Excellent. I am calling today because we have started an addition on our home. And because of change of plans, we're going to add a little bit more to it and increase cost. We are maxed at our budget. So I was looking for some advice. I was looking for some advice. Do we take a home equity loan? No. Or should I sell some stock that I have?

1:38:05George Kamel:Oh. I didn't know we had an option B. This is nice. How much do you have in stocks?

1:38:12Dr. John Delony:So I have a brokerage account. This is in a retirement, and there's about$328 ,000.

1:38:17George Kamel:Well, let's go. How much of that are you going to need to liquidate to finish this renovation?

1:38:24Dr. John Delony:I'm thinking around$60 ,000.

1:38:27George Kamel:Okay. Are we, like, in a spit shake that this is$60 ,000 and it's not going to turn into$150 ,000? because it's already done that once yeah we've already been down this road you know what jolly

1:38:40Dr. John Delony:it jolly well may you know it's kind of touch and go with the price of construction costs and they well hold on and follow well they rise but you didn't you didn't sign a contract that said i'm going to build this for this price no our builder it my husband's able to work with him so he works at an hourly rate, and we are purchasing the building material.

1:39:06George Kamel:Yeah, but this – are you saving money in your left hand that's costing you more money in your right hand? Meaning if you had signed a contract and said, I want this addition for$210 ,000, shake hands, they are responsible for sourcing materials when they continue to go up and up and up and up and up. but by saying, hey, we can do this for$175 ,000 just by all GC it, and I've got a guy who will work hourly. Now y 'all are into significant – you see what I'm saying? Yeah. It may be too late for that, but man.

1:39:48Dr. John Delony:We're much in a position where we don't have solid answers or solid thoughts.

1:39:53George Kamel:That's the part that scares me because this could be an endless project. Yep. And so I would get some real hard numbers before continuing this thing. What is your house worth before the addition?

1:40:05Dr. John Delony:According to Zillow, around$300 ,000.

1:40:08George Kamel:What's the total addition going to cost you based on what you currently know with all the extra you're going to have to put in?

1:40:16Dr. John Delony:$75 ,000.

1:40:18George Kamel:Okay. And you said you still need$60 ,000 to go. So you thought this thing was going to cost you$15 ,000?

1:40:24Dr. John Delony:No, no, no. I'm sorry. $75 ,000 was the original. What happened was it's going to be a four-car garage, and we thought, oh, let's add in second floor.

1:40:33George Kamel:Okay, so it's going to be really$135 ,000 addition. Probably, yeah. Almost 50 % of the home value we're adding. Are there homes on your street that are worth that? Because I'm scared you're going to overbuild the neighborhood. Nobody's looking for a$500 ,000 home when the rest are$350 ,000.

1:40:53Dr. John Delony:We're going to stay here our whole life. This is not something that we're looking to ever move or sell. 47, 48 years old.

1:41:05George Kamel:Wow. You're talking 50 more years in this house. I wish I was as confident as you. I love my house and my neighborhood, but man, I'm not bold enough to make that statement. I, you have transformed this project into a, I'm oversimplifying it, but a four pillar, four wall project to a two story addition. I think that's worth hitting the pause button and going and talking to a contractor to see what it would cost to do this thing. And if you might come back and it's triple the price and y 'all are still in better shape. Great. I would at least want that peace of mind because once you start adding second floors, dude, dude, I want this thing insured and bonded, and I want it done right.

1:41:49George Kamel:That's just me, and that's what I would do at my house. I pay guys hourly to do all kinds of stuff. I would not pay people hourly to do this big of a project. You want the full scope for something this big. What was the brokerage account earmarked for?

1:42:07Dr. John Delony:Honestly, that's kind of like our savings. When we have extra money, we buy stock, and we look at it as if we need it, it's going to grow. Okay. It will grow until we move it.

1:42:18George Kamel:So this wasn't for something else, and now we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's totally fine if you use some of this money to finish the addition. Correct. Okay. I would calculate how much you'll pay in capital gains taxes.

1:42:31Dr. John Delony:Right. Well, that's kind of the concern. And with the high returns right now on the market and the percentage rate of buying right now, which one is the better choice for us?

1:42:42George Kamel:Well, I could tell you I would take off immediately. Again, as for me and my house, I would not put on the block the very house I'm trying to put an addition on that's supposed to be my house for the next 50 years. And when you take out a HELOC to fund another project on that same house, you're putting the house itself on the block. I would not do that. So whatever you do, we are not going into debt for this edition. And if you do want to continue on, I would liquidate parts of the brokerage. And you can kind of choose which stocks you're selling off, and you want to choose the ones that are going to have the least amount of capital gains.

1:43:17George Kamel:And if you need help with that, you can reach out to a SmartVestor Pro. You can go to RamseySolutions.com for that. But, John, I was reminded of this verse from Luke 14 that I just want to read out loud because it's so perfect for the situation. For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it. Lest after he has laid the foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying this man began to build and was not able to finish. That's a roast right there. I mean, I don't put a shovel in the ground until I've shaken hands and we've agreed on a price.

1:43:51George Kamel:Because it's an endless. Endless. And I don't trust myself. I like the fact that when I shake hands, there is always a, if you change after today not only is it going to add cost for the whatever you want to actually change and do there is a percentage penalty and that puts a that puts an extra hurdle an extra set of breaks on my whims and let's just do this and let's just do this because she's right it's going to be let's add a second story and then it's like well let's just put a bathroom up here and that's going to turn into we need to have an another entrance we're going to be here for the rest of our lives.

1:44:30George Kamel:We might as well make it what we want. Yes. And suddenly you've burned through that brokerage account and you're taken out of here. Well, the problem is it's exacerbated when you take out debt because you're using your house like a piggy bank. And so it's so much easier to go, well, we can just do more. We don't have the cash. We can just take more on the line of credit. If every time you sell one of those stocks, you have to pay the capital gains on it, you're going to be very particular about what you sell and how much money you're bringing in. and that's going to act as a set of brakes on this endless build.

1:45:01George Kamel:Bringing friction back into the process is the way to make a wiser decision. And I trust Melody that she's going to live in this house for 50 years. I don't see that happen almost ever. Ever, ever, ever. I'll be impressed. Call us back when you're 97. Let us know.

1:45:39Dr. John Delony:How many times have you started January saying, this is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control? But then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan. So start by downloading EveryDollar. EveryDollar is way more than our world-class budgeting app. In 15 minutes, we'll build you a personalized plan to free up extra margin in your budget and use it to beat debt and build wealth. You'll find thousands of dollars on average just the first day. And you'll get new steps and new lessons every day that help you stay on track and create unstoppable momentum.

1:46:24Dr. John Delony:Don't waste one more day feeling broke and stressed. Get your plan in just 15 minutes by downloading EveryDollar for free today.

1:46:46George Kamel:One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they are winning. We just got this amazing review of our EveryDollar app. I love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We have implemented this practice since our wedding day, and we have had zero, no way, it's awesome, zero money fights because there's full transparency when it comes to our money, and we're on the same page. Awesome. Listen, this can be your life, too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download our EveryDollarBudget app for free in the App Store or for you Android users on Google Play.

1:47:27George Kamel:Let's go out to Dallas, Texas and talk to Anne. Hey, Anne, what's up?

1:47:33Dr. John Delony:Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

1:47:35George Kamel:Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

1:47:38Dr. John Delony:Thank you. I'm so grateful, actually, that someone can look at my situation from outside of the box. I am considering to file bankruptcy, and I was wondering if you would recommend doing that or not. Honestly, I don't want to do that because I'm very grateful that the banks gave me that money back when I needed it. So I want to pay it back, but I feel like I just can't.

1:48:07George Kamel:All right, well tell us about your situation. How much do you owe?

1:48:11Dr. John Delony:So I have five credit cards and two business loans. That totals to$123 ,000. And I also owe about$35 ,000 to the IRS and back taxes. I used to make about$154 ,000 a year. And in 2024, I made only$52 ,000. In 2025, I made$39 ,000. I did start doing all kinds of gigs and delivery and driving for Uber. I set up a minibuy store. I started selling everything, my expensive suits and things, trying to help me. I also had to file for forbearance last year. I've been out of forbearance for about nine months, and I just had to file for another one, and I'm in the second one. And that's a good thing, and my car is paid off.

1:49:25Dr. John Delony:Good.

1:49:26George Kamel:All right, so before we get to the actual money part, okay, what were you doing for your job when you were making$150 ,000, and what are you doing now making only$40 ,000?

1:49:35Dr. John Delony:I own a business well I sell real estate that's what I do I sold real estate as you know real estate hasn't been selling very well it's been a tough season

1:49:50George Kamel:why do you need business loans for real estate

1:49:55Dr. John Delony:back then when things were great $20 ,000 was for marketing and set on the website and, you know, following up with clients. They did, they took over all my marketing, you know, kind of team for me and did everything so I could focus on my clients. And then 60 ,000 was with small business administration that was taken out during

1:50:23George Kamel:me caused it that that loan is haunting haunting small business owners still um but so george is gonna walk you through the money side of this okay but what i'm hearing is deep deep shame and i want to free you from that okay okay okay like you're not the dollar amount you bring home so yes your business has crashed okay you are still a person worthy of being loved you're still a good community member you're still a fellow texan right and so you have to back out of the muck and the mud and the actual stress you have from real bills that need real dollars to pay them. That's all real. Okay. But on top of that and underneath that, this sense that I am a human failure.

1:51:27George Kamel:All that is doing is bringing extra weight to an already challenging situation. I want to free you from that. Okay. Let's set that nonsense down. It might be that moving forward, you sell real estate as your side hustle and you get back in the nine to five, eight to five. I'm going to go clock in somewhere and I'm going to go get a real job all day, every day with benefits, like getting there and I'm going to do that. And I'll sell real estate at nighttime and on the weekends until the market picks back up. Maybe that's the move. I don't know, but I want you to get to the core, who am I? And if you're a great real estate agent, what that tells me is you're somebody who serves other people.

1:52:10George Kamel:You're somebody who listens well. You're somebody who fights for their clients. And that type of heart is useful in a million different industries. Okay. And so trying to hang on to my identity as a realtor is drowning you to the tune of 110 grand a year. Let's let that go and say, okay, who am I? I'm somebody who helps people when they, when they need help. I'm somebody who shows up. I'm somebody who listens. I'm somebody who fights for people. And man, that opens you up to a whole suite of different career opportunities that backfill your purpose on the planet. Okay. Cool.

1:52:45Dr. John Delony:Yeah. I like that.

1:52:48George Kamel:Okay. So let's walk through the money stuff. All right. And are you covering your four walls right now? Are you covering your basic bills, food, rent, utilities, transportation?

1:52:59Dr. John Delony:Yes, that's pretty much the only thing I can cover. And the minimum payments is where I basically drive for Uber or try to sell stuff, you know, clothes, my old, you know, whatever I own, to pay those minimum payments, really, because I have several of them and they're not small. Yes. Each of them. Like IRS payment alone is$617 every month.

1:53:27George Kamel:And how long is that payment plan for?

1:53:31Dr. John Delony:So I owe$35 ,000. I don't think they had like a year.

1:53:37George Kamel:Okay. Well, your goal up front is the IRS debt. That one rises to the top because they can really mess with your life. So we want to get them off our back before we tackle the business loans and the credit cards. Now that's going to take getting our income up. that's really the variable here that you can control. Okay. And so this is going to be the hard work. It's easy for me to say, go get more income, but I can crunch some numbers with you to show you that bankruptcy is not the only option. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it as an option for you because it will destroy your financial life in a whole other way.

1:54:10Dr. John Delony:I really don't want to do that. I really don't. I want to pay with enough. I feel it's just not right to do that.

1:54:20George Kamel:So think about it this way. If we reverse engineer this and just put some facts on paper right now and try to just step away from the emotions, if you put, this is a big number, but if you put$3 ,200 towards your debt, you would be debt-free within four years. Really? Yeah. That's the math. You have$158 ,000 in debt, so you can divide it by however many months, whatever your goal is, and go, all right, that's the number I need to come up with for my debt. Now, that means you need to go make$7 ,000 a month in order to do that, right? Uh-huh. You need to have enough money to cover your bills, cover your insurance, basic expenses, and every extra dollar is going towards your debt.

1:55:00George Kamel:And if you do that, within a few years, you can climb out of this, but not making$39 ,000. We need to get back up to a six-figure income to knock out six figures of debt. Are you tracking with me?

1:55:11Dr. John Delony:Right.

1:55:12George Kamel:That means I'm going to go find a$50 ,000 or$60 ,000-year job. and make more every single year. You're going to be so good at your job. They're going to be promoting you so fast. And if it's self-employed, now self-employment in real estate, it's a tough gig right now. And so to John's point, if you can go find something that is salary, benefits steady, you're going to feel so much better about climbing out of this because you're not waiting on that next commission check to come through.

1:55:36Dr. John Delony:Right, right. And by the way,

1:55:39George Kamel:four years of$3 ,200 a month, that sounds insane, right? It's a long time. But the seven-year shackle, around your ankle from bankruptcy is way worse.

1:55:52Dr. John Delony:Yeah, and I've been trying to pay this off for years anyway. I've probably paid it in multiples, but it's on me. Well, it's whack-a-mole right now.

1:56:01George Kamel:And so instead, you're going to do the debt snowball method, and I'm going to help you and walk you through this. I'm going to gift you my book, Breaking Free from Broke, Total Money Makeover, and give you the Every Dollar Budgeting app so that you have a game plan instead of just spray and pray. We're rooting for you. Thank you.

1:56:37Dr. John Delony:All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:57:19George Kamel:Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with me. Revelation 3.20. The quote of the day is from Bruno Mars. George has Bruno Mars tattoos on his chest He loves that guy You can't knock on Opportunity's door And not be ready Alright let's go out to the 512 Let's go out to Austin, Texas And talk to Natalie Hey Natalie what's up

1:57:49Dr. John Delony:Hey guys I'm so excited to talk to y 'all

1:57:51George Kamel:We're excited to talk to you What's going on

1:57:54Dr. John Delony:I am 27 And I'm wondering Should I buy a house this year by myself Or wait until marriage to share that whole experience and homeowner responsibility. We're not engaged yet, but probably headed that way in the next year or so. Obviously, I don't want to bank on that happening. Oh, you're so wise. It also seems like a huge milestone that I want to share with him, but I also don't want to miss a good opportunity to buy a house.

1:58:26George Kamel:Well, are you financially ready to buy a house on your own right now as it stands? Yes. Tell me about the money here. What are you thinking about buying? How much do you have saved?

1:58:37Dr. John Delony:I've got saved about$300 ,000. Woo, Natalie, what are you doing? I've just been blessed.

1:58:47George Kamel:What's your income? People want to know how you did this.

1:58:51Dr. John Delony:My income fluctuates. My base is around$117 ,000, but the job I'm in has some pretty awesome bonuses.

1:59:04George Kamel:And you have no debt?

1:59:06Dr. John Delony:No debt.

1:59:07George Kamel:I love it. Okay, hold on. You've been blessed, yes, fair. And you've been really wise and a good steward of this money.

1:59:16Dr. John Delony:I would like to think so, yeah.

1:59:18George Kamel:Because I have lots of friends in Austin, Texas, and if they had that kind of money, it would be invested poorly in really flashy automobiles, houses they can't afford. They would be up to their eyeballs, right? You're in like the.0001%, the fact that you're a single woman, no debt with 300 grand sitting in the bank. So you've worked your butt off to be blessed. Does this guy know? Yeah, I'm very curious, because I'd be like, let's get married sooner. Yeah, what's this idiot waiting on? Because not only do you have money, you're like a wise, good human being.

1:59:53Dr. John Delony:yeah he does know and get this he doesn't let me pay for a single date yeah you know why because

1:59:58George Kamel:he's texan well done yeah he's a good one yes well done i love it so should you buy a house i know you want to share the joy and the truth is he's going to get the joy of home ownership for the rest of his life like if i just picture it if he's stepping in the situation and you are fiscally responsible you've got a reasonable mortgage payment now he steps in with his income too and now you guys crush through this mortgage i don't think he's going to be like man i just really wish i was there at closing you know what i mean and by the way um i i don't know who you've talked to i have bought a lot of houses over the years none of them have been a pleasurable experience and and by the way that includes when i am using a mortgage lender that i trust a realtor that's a friend of mine, and the closing attorney is a college roommate of mine.

2:00:50George Kamel:The whole process is still so stress-induced. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. And so I don't know what you've imagined this will be like, but I almost think you'd be doing both of y 'all a huge favor if you just bought this house.

2:01:06Dr. John Delony:Okay, and don't share the grief with him?

2:01:08George Kamel:I mean, he's going to share the grief if he's dating you.

2:01:12Dr. John Delony:Fair point.

2:01:14George Kamel:there are some things to think about though with a long-term decision like this of you know where do we both work is this going to make sense for us are there going to be major renovations do i like the area does it have good schools in case we start a family here so there are things to think about but i would go ahead and get your foot in the door of this housing market especially before it ramps back up because i have a feeling at some point it's going to get crazy again why why do you feel is the 300 grand just burning a hole in your pocket what do you feel like you're missing out on?

2:01:43Dr. John Delony:I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I'm just so sick and tired of dealing with property management companies.

2:01:49George Kamel:You get to deal with yourself soon enough. You're like, this toilet's not working. Oh, dang it. I got to fix it.

2:01:55Dr. John Delony:Sometimes I would rather just do it myself.

2:01:57George Kamel:A true Texan right there. Natalie, I'm so proud of you. I would definitely start shopping, start to see what's on the market, what's in their budget. Stick to a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. Make sure the payment's not more than a quarter of your after-tax income, and you will be in such good shape. Because once you have dual incomes, maybe you decide once you have a kid, I want to stay home. And it'll be a no-brainer because you did everything the wise way. Or let's just take two years and let's just pay this house completely off, which would be amazing. She's going to be a multi, multi, multi-millionaire.

2:02:27George Kamel:I have a paid-off house before I'm 30, and I can do whatever I want. That's amazing. Good for you, Natalie. That's awesome, dude. Let's go out to Houston and talk to Kevin. Hey, Kevin, what's up, brother?

2:02:37Dr. John Delony:Hello. How you doing?

2:02:39George Kamel:Good, man. What's up?

2:02:41Dr. John Delony:Yeah, so basically I graduated law school in May and having a lot of trouble finding positions. I'm about to take the bar exam in a few days and just wondering what advice you guys had.

2:02:56George Kamel:What kind of law you want to go into?

2:03:00Dr. John Delony:Well, I was hoping to be in-house counsel somewhere. I would love to do that. That's a little tougher to get into.

2:03:06George Kamel:Yeah, that's tough for a first-year grad. That's almost impossible. Yeah. My students and my friends who are attorneys, that was always like a destination. I want to get there one day, right? Yeah, yeah.

2:03:22Dr. John Delony:And, I mean, I'm also looking into more realistic options like family law as well. Okay. And estate planning.

2:03:28George Kamel:So have you – Yeah, I'm just – oh, sorry. Are you struggling with – have you sent out a bunch of applications?

2:03:35Dr. John Delony:yeah i mean hundreds okay i lost track at this point so when somebody tells me they've sent out

2:03:42George Kamel:hundreds of resumes almost always they are applying to online job application inquiries

2:03:49Dr. John Delony:is that is that true for you yeah i mean i think i would put it into different categories where you know i have tailored applications i mean i've still done hundreds of those and applications through contacts that i know okay but um yeah and then the category of like okay let's just put a resume in put a cover letter in and see where we go from there and and personally i don't

2:04:18George Kamel:count those because the the ability for anyone to even get to those resumes these days is so hard right um i much prefer you focus on folks you went to school with um a lot of my students would one person would get into a firm and then two or three of them would end up working at that firm or one person would get a job at the da's office and then four of them would follow them to the like that tended to be what i saw how my students got their foot in the door places do you not have access to a career services department at your law school

2:04:54Dr. John Delony:um i do but it's very limited especially in my case like they don't have a lot of postings and you know when you do talk to them they just refer you to the postings and in my case i got a scholarship in a law school in a different state and now i'm trying to get my license in texas yeah Do you think that's hurting you? Yeah. On top of not having passed the bar yet? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously not passing the bar, but yeah, the lack of opportunities through the school is a little rough. Yeah.

2:05:30George Kamel:So here's what I would focus on. I would put every single aim, every gun I have at passing the bar exam, period. I would join both the local community bar association and the state bar association. and I would look at every government opening right now in a one-hour radius. And you might not want to do government law. You may not want to do assistant DA work. You may not want to do that kind of work, but that might be the only work available to you. And by the way, those are opportunities for you to get a ton of different cases and a ton of different clients and rub shoulders with a ton of different attorneys and judges that can help you begin to network for your next move.

2:06:12George Kamel:But that would be where I start right there. I'd quit applying and start going, all right, I need to set up 15 conversations this week with people that are in this space. Maybe it's the alumni. Maybe you know a judge's clerk. Whatever it is, just go, hey, I'm going to hang. I'm going to see how I can add value to their life, get to know them. It's not a desperate plea for a job. You're just making the connections, and they might know a guy who knows a guy, and that's how you get it. Or that temp job or contract work turned into full-time work. Or they knew somebody who was looking for somebody.

2:06:39George Kamel:That's how people get jobs in the real world these days versus the spray and pray. I click some buttons and hopefully it's an additional. And nobody's calling me. Yeah. Yeah. And it wouldn't surprise me if your university where you're graduating has an alumni in an alumni group in Texas. Check them out, too. Thanks for calling, brother.