Financial Peace Requires More Than Good Intentions

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22:00George Kamel:If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using EveryDollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now the plan is built right into it. You can track your progress and get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. and the goal is to help you free up more money to work the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walk with you every day 24-7, showing you the right next step and holding you accountable. So go start EveryDollar for free. You can download it in the App Store or Google Play. Matthew is in Fort Lauderdale up next. Matthew, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

22:33Wow, this is amazing to get to talk to y 'all.

22:36George Kamel:We're amazed to get to talk to Matthew. We're so excited to help. Yeah, sir. Yeah, so I'll be brief. And my question is, me and my fiancé, we just got engaged, and I'm 20 years old. I don't have no debt, and I make pretty good money. However, she wants to go to an RN school to become a registered nurse, but I'm trying to convince her not to take out student loans, and I'm in the financial position. I could pay for it, but I don't want to make a mistake saying if she did not end up loving registered nurse that I'm out$40 ,000. Yeah. When's the wedding? Have you guys set a date? No. It'll probably be January of next year.

23:26But she graduated with an associate's degree and now wants to go to RN school.

23:34George Kamel:Is she working right now? Yes, sir. Yeah, she's a waitress at a barbecue joint. So your uneasiness about paying for this is more about, is this the career that she really wants? It's not about, you know, anything else, correct? Yeah, no. I mean, I work really hard for my money. I'm a rancher. And I don't mind helping her out just so we can stay out of debt. because once we are married, I don't want to get the burden of debt. You're a wise man at 20. That's impressive. And how old is she? She's 21. What makes you think that this could be something that she's just got in her mind right now but will change her mind down the line?

24:22Has she shown that to be a personality characteristic? Not necessarily. it's just she's never had any family members or experienced a job and I know being a nurse is a super hard job so I just don't want her to I don't want to spend this money and then we end up looking back as a huge mistake yeah well the other piece that you haven't mentioned

24:50George Kamel:is covering somebody's education that you're not married to just has a lot of risk yeah just like the last caller. You heard it, man. I mean, I paid, listen, you could be calling in a year from now, man, I paid for her nursing school and then we broke up and I can't get my money back. Now, I hope that doesn't happen. I hope you guys are married and have a wonderful long marriage, but there's still that risk factor when you're not married, you have no protection there. And so I love the idea of you guys developing a plan to cashflow her nursing school. And that might mean, hey, you're going to work for this next year and come January, we get married.

25:26George Kamel:Let's reassess. Let's see where we're at financially. Let's have her start saving up in order to cash flow this because it's going to become y 'all's burden once you're married. I'd also look at – I mean you guys have not quite a year, but if you're planning on getting married in January, in the meantime, she can do some programs out there that will allow her to shadow that career and really get in that environment and see, can I stomach it? Do I like it? And get a sense of what it feels like, get a sense of the hours and really do her due diligence before you were to shell that money out. And this is the perfect time to do that while she continues to work and save up.

26:02George Kamel:Yeah, I was going to suggest, can she work in a health care environment in an administrative role where she at least gets to see the inner workings of the system, talk to the nurses and get a real feel for what it's going to be like? Because she might find out, man, I really like health care, but I'd rather be on the business side versus with patients all day. And so I do think you're right to be cautious and go a little slow here. And I think she's just going, nursing sounds good. And it is. It's a great field if you're the right fit for it. And you can get paid a lot of money and help a lot of people.

26:33Yeah, she could do a nursing shadowing program. She could volunteer at a hospital for a while. She could maybe start as a CNA and do that first and not shell out the$40 ,000 right away. There's a lot of things that she could do to kind of get her feet wet without spending a ton, ton of money. Yes, ma 'am. Okay. Yeah, I'll try to pass it on. And then my other situation is trying to get her to fall in love with the Ramsey plan like I did about four years ago.

27:03George Kamel:Well, she fell in love with you. Is that partially due to your fiscal responsibility? Well, I think she loves the lifestyle and she loves me. We live debt free. I mean, I live at the ranch. We take care of livestock all day long. She helps out with it a lot, and I think she's really interested. But the nursing, she doesn't know anybody that's a nurse, and she goes on Google and see what a nurse makes, and she wants to do that. And that's the fear. If you're aiming at a certain paycheck, then that scares me because, number one, you may not finish school and may not see that paycheck, and it might be less than you thought or it might be more stressful than you thought, and she jumps out of nursing after you guys sunk 40 grand into it.

27:50George Kamel:So I do think there's some premarital counseling to be done here and we can help with that. We'll gift you guys Financial Peace University and you go through that together, get on the same page, and we'll do the work for you on trying to convince her to jump on the Ramsey plan. Yeah, I think we've given you some good solutions and even for her to suss out the nursing program. My bigger thing is you need to talk about your viewpoints and philosophies around money. And like George said, we'll hook you up with the stuff, but you need to sit down one night and say, okay, here's the thing. I'm a guy.

28:20I built my whole life on avoiding debt. I don't do credit cards. I don't sign up for debt. It bothered me or it gave me at least questions when you were so quickly willing to go into debt for a degree. And those are the questions that you do want to start asking now and not even in an accusatory way or with like a bad air about it. Just seek to be curious and learn about her.

28:41George Kamel:say I want to be aligned in every area of our life and money's a part of that. That's it. That's how you start it. So wishing you the best. Hang on the line. We'll get you Financial Peace University to watch with her. Alright, Brock is in Tampa up next. Brock, welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going, y 'all? I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. What's going on? So I got just a small question. I've got a classic car that I've heard to mix and put on whether I should keep it or sell it and invest the money that I get from it. I'm a young guy. So, you know, I guess any money that I can invest now will set me up later for the future.

29:16How old are you, Brock? I'm 19. Okay.

29:20George Kamel:You got any debt? I have no debt. Good. How much do you have in the bank right now? A little over$100. Fantastic. At 19? Yeah. What do you make? About$120. Dude, you are crushing it. What kind of work do you do, Brock? At 19, making$120. I run like a landscape company kind of deal. Good for you. So tell us about the classic car. So I bought it off a customer about six months, seven months ago. It's a great little car. I love it. It just kind of fits. And I've got money invested. I don't know. I've heard people are like, hey, are you going to get rid of it? What do you spend on it? I just want to see.

30:05I bought it for$10, and the car's probably worth closer to$20. Cash? Cash, yeah. Everything I got is cash.

30:13George Kamel:So you could sell it for$20, and you're going, I might rather see that grow in an investment account than sit in a garage and collect dust and be something I have to maintain. And that's kind of where I'm at with it, too. Now, what's even worse is the car sits outside. Exposed to the elements. It's not protected. Yeah, exactly. And you don't want to pay for storage, insurance, all of that. How many other cars do you have? I've got a place to store. I've got two other trucks. Okay. Can you get another classic car one day, or is this the one of a kind, you'll never see it again, and you'll hate that you sold it?

30:48I could definitely get another classic car. This car, too, isn't even, like, if I wasn't to get a good deal on it, I would have never bought it because it's not something that, like, would appeal to me. You kind of sound like you're talking. We haven't had to talk you out of this. It sounds like you're set on it. And I'll show you the math, Rob. You just want somebody to say okay.

31:05George Kamel:From 19 to 59. But it's time to get rid of it, though. Well, you'll have a little bit. You can grieve it. You'll say goodbye. And you'll take that 20 grand and invest it. And if you just leave it in an investment account from 19 years old to 59 years old, it's a 40-year span with an average 10 % rate of return. You're looking at a million bucks in that one account. That's true. But also hear us say you don't have to sell it if you wanted to keep it. If you were in crippling debt making 30 grand and this thing was going to be your savior, we'd say sell it today. Nothing's on fire, but you just convinced us you don't want to deal with this thing anymore.

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33:17George Kamel:We had a blast recording this show live in front of audiences on the road in April. That's right. Ramsey show live. We traveled to four cities in the month of April and did Ramsey show live in front of about, you know, 300 something people. The show was filled with live questions from the audience. You get to see their faces, see their reactions, bring the spouse up for the debate. And Jade and I had a great time. I was on two of those. I think Jade was on. Were we Phoenix? We were on zero of them, Jade, together. Oh, we were? This year. Is that one? I was with. No wonder my mind went blank. Rachel and Ken.

33:52George Kamel:You were with Deloney and Ken for one and Rachel and Ken for the other. Oh, George, what's up with that, man? I know. I know. They split. Well, we're two powerful together. You know, it's like Air Force One, you've got to have one person on Air Force Two for safety. So Charlotte and Denver episodes are out right now on the Ramsey Show, YouTube channel, Spotify, Ramsey Network app. Phoenix and Anaheim episodes will be coming out soon. They were super fun, and I think you're going to really enjoy watching them. The energy is electric. It's just different. That's right. Go check it out. All right, let's go to Eric in Las Vegas up next.

34:26George Kamel:Hey, Eric, what's going on? hey how's it going uh that was telling me um because i kind of have a situation with my grandfather and his reverse mortgage and my wife and i are still in baby step two um but he's having some health scares so he needs us to kind of move in with him so i'm trying to make sense if it makes sense once we get done with our uh baby steps if we try to tackle and get his reverse mortgage paid off or do we just live there uh he said he'd let us live there without rent while we're helping him do we get our money situated for a down payment on our own house after he passes we're just kind of not sure where to go man that's a lot to be handling right now so he's got a health scare is that meaning you need to move in and take care of him full time what does that look like yeah um so he's been passing out recently uh and he you know falling around his house and not being able to call for help and stuff.

35:25So it's kind of like, okay, it's time to, you know, move in. We don't have, he doesn't have any other family. How old is he? He's 80. Okay. And so the deal is you, you move in, you help out, you don't have to pay rent. And then when the day comes and he's beamed up, you guys inherit the property? Yeah, basically. But he has a reverse mortgage. And my wife and I just, six months ago, we had our son. and so the house is not super old. It was built in the 90s, but it needs some TLC, so I would probably have to front load that before even thinking about the reverse mortgage at all, which means if I didn't get the house, I'd pretty much lose that money.

36:08Do you know the numbers around the house? Like what does he owe on it? What percentage is the reverse mortgage and what's it worth? Yeah, the house is worth about$530. currently he owes$302 ,000 on the reverse mortgage and I don't know the interest rate but it's about$1 ,700 a month that goes up man

36:30George Kamel:well I would not do anything with the reverse mortgage right now you guys aren't in a financial position to do anything anyways you got your own financial mess to clean up you can still move in with him and it can still be quote unquote rent free I mean he's basically just using his house as a piggy bank with a lot of fees right now These reverse mortgages, there's a reason they're sold on late night TV with a washed up actor with a mustache. And so it's not a good product, terrible product. And I'm sad that he fell into it. But this is the reality for a lot of elderly people is they didn't save for retirement, but they've got a paid for house.

37:06George Kamel:And they see this marketing saying, hey, what if we could just send you a check every month? Doesn't that sound good? And they take it. so i would just hold get his health back in order and see what you can do to help take care of him you keep fighting your own fight to get out of debt and if this is a win-win for both of you because you get to live rent free with your family and get out of debt faster and he gets to help from his wonderful grandson i call this a win regardless of what happens with the house later on yeah so like it because we because i make about seven to nine thousand so i could clear of this debt pretty quickly if we moved in.

37:40So that's my whole thing is like, I don't know, I don't know if it's still worth it once we get out of debt or...

37:48George Kamel:Well, I mean, you don't have 300 grand to pay it off anyways. Yeah, he was talking about a full mortgage or something. Oh, man. Well, I would also get clear on his estate planning wishes and what is going to happen and who inheritance will go to, because I don't want you paying off a house that ends up going to somebody else and you have no recourse. Yeah. And so I'm not saying that, you know, you need to say, hey, if I'm paying this off, I get the house and the will. You may not even want this house to deal with because, like you said, it needs some TLC. It may not be the house you would have chose for your family to live in.

38:25George Kamel:But right now, that's not a problem. That's a bridge we can cross way later on. The best case, short sight everything and just live rent free and kind of get out of my own situation. You get yourself to a financial position, and this will be a great wake-up call of, man, I never want this to be me. Yeah, I'm telling you. That's it. And you help Grandpa live the best life he can live, considering his health conditions, and you will have done a good deed on this earth, my friend. Wishing you the best. Joseph is in Tampa up next on the line. What's going on, Joseph? George, Jade, it's an honor to talk to you both.

39:02Thank you for taking my call.

39:03George Kamel:Absolutely. What's your question today? Oh, guys, I think I made a dumb decision. I took out my 401k so I can transfer it. I know. I took it out. I have it in the form of a check so I can transfer it to a Roth IRA. Wait, was it like a direct rollover check? Yeah, that was my intention. Like it's not – is it made out to you or to the next institution? It's made out to the next institution. Okay. Okay, that's good. We're still good. but the institution i'm trying to roll it over to is saying that the account that i have would have to be closed and liquidated with them so they can open up a new ira to put this money in but i may face tax implications i think what you're talking about is the pro rata rule

39:55George Kamel:yeah that's something you can look into so basically if you have a traditional account that has money in it and you're trying to convert. Do you know what type of money this is? Is it all traditional or all Roth? Is it both? It's just a 401k savings plan. It's all traditional. I'm trying to put it into, it's called a later traditional IRA. I've never heard of that one. Me neither. Tell us about it. Why is it different? um what the one says here i'm gonna change your later ira account we're saying that i can only have one later ira it's their name for their investment accounts later with acorns oh that's where you're trying to roll this into yes okay i would try to use a more reputable institution to roll this over into like a Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab.

40:54George Kamel:They're going to be much easier to work with. And you should be able to contact them and say, hey, I need this check to be voided and made out to this other institution. Oh, okay. Because at this point, I mean, I was getting ready to crash out on these guys at Acorns and shut the account and put it back into Fidelity. Yeah, I don't know the exact reason. I'm trying to think of why they would block you and say they need to close this account, liquidate it, open a new one. And my guess is there's some function where they can't do a rollover into an existing account. Right. They can't have it into an existing account, and they won't let me have two of these investments account with their institution.

41:33Yeah. I think George is right. I think you just need to knock on another door and go to another bank.

41:40George Kamel:Because I've done this with my – my wife used to work at Ramsey for nine years, and so we transferred her 401K. It had – they ended up doing it as a check. And then I literally took a picture of that, deposited it into a Vanguard rollover IRA. So that's what you're looking for is a rollover IRA with Fidelity, Vanguard, or Schwab. That's what I would recommend. And then contact the original institution and have the check reissued or whatever. That's right. Yes. Because I don't know enough about Acorns, but I don't know that they accept 401k rollovers. Or if they do, they're clearly making it very difficult.

42:12George Kamel:They are. Okay. Because I'm seeing here as I looked it up, Acorns Later is designed for new contributions only, not for receiving rollovers from workplace retirement plans. There you go. So you chose the wrong brokerage to mess with, unfortunately, Joseph. Sorry, but at least you didn't withdraw the funds into your bank account. Oh, thank God. Because you'd be on the hook for some taxes, my friend. So for anybody listening out there, if you leave your employer for any reason, you can do a direct rollover in kind. So from traditional 401k to a rollover traditional IRA or Roth to Roth, and you want to make sure that you don't see the money.

42:50George Kamel:The money goes from one institution to the other institution. That's the way to do it without penalties and fees.

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44:14George Kamel:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls on Money & Life at 888-825-5225. Sarah is in Spokane, Washington up next. Sarah, what's going on? um so my question is that um my husband and i have been debt-free from about 2013 up until this year um and my husband is um an alcoholic but got sober in january and replaced alcohol with spending so now we have 38 000 in debt and um so he is now unfortunately not sober again, but now wants to pay off the debt. He's not sober now, but he wants to pay off the debt. Yes, it's the opposite of what traditionally happens, I think.

45:08And the$38 ,000, is that all sorts of different things? Or was it like one vehicle? Because$38 ,000 since January is a lot of money. Two major purchases. What are they? So one is a boat and one was a bathroom remodel. Okay, boat and a bathroom.

45:26George Kamel:One of those we can sell, so that's good. How much is that boat worth? About$28 ,000. And what's owed on it? $13 ,000. Oh, good. Good. So there's some money there. And the bathroom, you were on board with that a little bit, I gotta believe. Hard to sneak that one past you. Yeah, so I was until they came back with the quote, and then I said no, and he signed the papers. Without you. Okay. Okay. So the good news is there's money to be made back on the boat and then we can cash flow the payoff of the rest of this. Is he working? Is he able to hold down jobs? Yes. Okay. What does he earn and what do you earn?

46:10So together we earn just under 300.

46:13George Kamel:Wow. Great income. So that's nice. We'll clean this up fast. I mean, if you sell the boat, you'll profit$15 ,000 and apply that to your$25 ,000 left on the bathroom loan? Well, so my question is more, so we have the money. I have$50 ,000 in savings, and I have$35 ,000 additionally in an emergency fund. Okay. However, the last year of our life has been incredibly volatile with a lot of things that we've not seen coming that we've had to cash flow. So I'm just worried about draining savings. He has some docs that he plays with that he needs to sell to pay for this. And I'm worried about the tax implications for that.

47:00I just don't know. Like, we can pay it off. I just don't know the best way to do it. I'll tell you my thing that I'm a little concerned about. You said your concerns. My concern is if he's back drinking again and you guys have this stellar income, does this have the ability to affect his job and his employment? therefore putting you guys in a really tough situation financially?

47:25It hasn't ever is all I can say. So he's a pretty functional alcoholic. Very, yeah.

47:33George Kamel:Well, here's the thing. You can move around the money, pay off the debt, but it's not changing this underlying problem, which is your marriage and his addictions. Right. You guys are not on the same page. He's making moves behind your back. You doesn't seem like you have much of a vote here. And you're realistically worried about the future. Now, I would pay off the debt and I would sell the boat. It's not going to put you in dire straits to do all of this, to knock out the debts. What I would do is put some guardrails in place so that neither of you can make any more stupid financial decisions.

48:10George Kamel:And that means we're going to freeze both of our credits. We're going to pull both of our credit reports today. You can go to annualcreditreport.com, pull those for free to get everything out on the table. And he needs to be very much involved in this. Is he on board to rectify the situation and get his life and marriage back?

48:32That's to be determined. I can't answer that. I think I would go to a further extreme on this. I don't think that you can give access to an addict to the money. I don't think he can have access to the money because the problem is he's going to spend it, whether it's signing a bathroom contract that you didn't agree to. Toys, gambling.

48:52George Kamel:I mean, it sounds like he's just looking for every vice possible. So I think that you have to have that conversation and figure out on the side and possibly with some counsel what it can look like for you to have access to this. And maybe it doesn't sound like he would work with you on this to say, hey, I'm worried. I'm worried about me. I'm worried about you. I'm worried about the family. Do you guys have kids? We do. How many? Three. Three. Yeah, I'm worried about the kids. We're unsafe. And so the only thing that I can do to stay in this environment with the kids for it to be safe is I have to have access to the money because I have to make sure that mortgage is paid.

49:36I have to make sure that the needs are met financially and that you don't mess things up for us going forward for the long term. If you're not able to do that, then I have to make other arrangements.

49:47George Kamel:Which means you're the gatekeeper. And in order to make sure that you're safe and until he shows himself to be trustworthy. worthy, which means he is sober, making wise financial decisions over a long period of time. I do think it's wise not to, quote unquote, separate your finances, but to make sure that he does not have access to this money to make bad decisions with. Right. Because you're still keeping him abreast of what's going on. He can still look at the budget. It's not to say that he can't, there's no transparency. It's just to say, hey, you used to be able to have this debit card and go and spend, spend, spend.

50:20Now I'm going to be the one that pays the bills without of our money. I am going to be the one that handles the money, basically. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, I do handle it already. Right. But he's got a debit card in his wallet and he can go out and he has the same access to the checking account. What are you worried about?

50:41George Kamel:Give us the top priorities of things that you would be worried about right now with your finances. My biggest thing is if we were to drain the savings and then we We've had a couple$10 ,000 emergencies come up in the last year because of other circumstances that we've cash flowed. And so I just am worried that those may come up and we've already drained our savings to now pay for that. No one's asking you to drain the savings. I mean, if you sell the boat and pay off the bathroom remodel, you're still left with liquid$50 ,000. Okay. And you're not going to have a$50 ,000 emergency, and you can probably cash flow that now that you'll be completely debt-free with a full emergency fund with$300 ,000 coming in.

51:28George Kamel:And so you guys are actually in a really decent spot financially, but it's more of the what-ifs and is he going to get better and will you guys work together and will this addiction get worse? Those are the parts we need to deal with. How long was he an alcoholic before he got sober this last time? So this is the first and only time so far, and it's been 20 years. Okay. Wow. What gave him the ability to get sober that first time? Was there one thing? Our son was also an addict and went through rehab. Wow. And so it was an eye-opener, but yeah. But it wasn't enough. I don't know. Yeah. Our son is one year sober.

52:18Okay, that's good. Listen, we're rooting for you. You've got your work cut out for you. And I think the best thing you can do is control your actions. You can't control his. So you can decide what your boundaries are going to be, what you want, the picture you want for money that makes you feel safe. And you can act on those things. You don't have to. And you can't wait for somebody, especially somebody who's not in a healthy place at this moment. But rooting for you guys.

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54:23George Kamel:we're headed to grand rapids up next kenzie joins us there kenzie welcome to the ramsey show hi thanks for having me absolutely how can jade and i help today all righty my husband and i have been married for almost a year now we've been essentially running from my father-in-law for almost three years. We do not pay a monthly flat rate rent. Rather, we pay just the monthly expenses like propane, electric, and minor repairs. So we're very fortunate to be in this situation, as it has allowed us to save. But I'm to the point where I want out of this house. I prefer for my father-in-law to just be my father-in-law at this point, if you know what I mean.

55:01Yes, I do. Instead of your landlord? However, yes.

55:05George Kamel:Now, is he living there, or is it's just a house he owns that you guys are living in? No, this is just an extra house that he owns. It's paid off and everything. I don't know. He's like gifting it to us just to live there for free. He means no ill will by any means. But you feel it. Yes. Are there some strings attached relationally? Not exactly. And I don't think he intends to do anything purposely, but I just kind to feel obligated to do certain things. I think it's time for us to get out. But my husband and I do not agree on this. He wants to wait until we have enough cash to purchase a home, whereas I'm okay with starting to look now and having a mortgage.

55:50So, oh, so he wants to do like... The 100 % down plan. Yeah, not just saving a down payment. Oh, gosh. How much is that going to cost?

55:58George Kamel:Yeah, what's the number? I'd say$250 ,000 to$300 ,000. How much do you guys have now? Um, we have roughly 120 ,000. We have 51 ,200 in our savings. And then we have 68 ,445 in a CD. Okay. How long would it take to, to realistically do this, which means you've got a three to six month emergency fund and you've got the cash money for the house? I would say three to four years. What do you guys make a year? We bring home, well, we don't bring home. We make roughly$110 to$120. It just depends on overtime. And I will say this is my first year with an actual salary. Okay. So you're essentially living on$60 and banking$60 in a year if it goes well.

56:53Yeah. I think I'd like to hear more from you because I mean, I'm thinking about my situation. My husband and I, we rented a house from Sam's mom, which is my mother-in-law. And we did that for 10 years almost while we paid off debt, saved up a down payment for a house. and I understand what you mean which is that part like Nina is the best like she gave us so many breaks but I still always felt a thing like I was grateful but at the same time when it was time to move into our own place I was really excited to have our own place but I want to know because a lot of that can live in our own minds too and yes it does affect the relationship but because he's not living there and because it sounds like he's happy to do this service it sounds like maybe there's more to it but there's part of me that's like hey don't block the blessing like if there's a blessing here don't block it um is there more we should know about it before I say that I think it just feels like we're leeching off of it in my opinion it feels like I'm leeching off of his dad and I don't ever want to be like reliant on somebody else okay that now we're getting somewhere Or what if you paid rent?

58:05What if you paid a reasonable rent instead of just, you know, utilities and things like that? Because that'd still be cheaper. I don't think he would take it. He's a very stubborn man. I don't think he would allow us to.

58:16George Kamel:What would it cost to rent elsewhere right now if you guys were to leave today and go rent if you weren't ready for the house? $1 ,200 at least, I'd say. Okay. I mean, I'm just trying to do the math of the reality. reality so 1200 bucks times let's say a year that's 14 grand less that you would bank yeah in the year and i'll throw in another wrench we are expecting our first child in november oh that's great um so maybe i am just being a little bit dramatic here and i need to suck it up for another couple years listen since we are having a child what you could do if you really wanted to But to your point, he's not going to take it.

58:55You could pay twelve hundred dollars into an account and just say, this makes me feel better. And when you're ready to move out, you could say, grandpa or dad in law. This is, you know, however much money this is fifty thousand dollars and he's not going to take it. And then you're going to say, well, I really tried. I did my best. And it's OK for somebody to give you a gift, because think about it like this. if you had the ability to do something like this for your children's children, for your children, would you do it? Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's a joy that he has to be able to do that.

59:32And so I think sometimes it's hard to be on the other end of somebody else's generosity. It doesn't sound like it's stunning your growth. Like if I was concerned that it was really...

59:40George Kamel:If you guys weren't saving any money, there was a bunch of strings attached, their relationship was awkward and strained, And then I'd say, hey, it's worth getting out and paying the$1 ,200. But to Jade's point, it feels like we're just blocking a blessing because it feels weird. And it is hard to accept generosity. It does put you in a place of weakness. But I think that's okay for a season. If this was 10 years and you guys weren't moving forward, but you guys have a baby on the way. You're banking$60K a year to save up for this house. And can I also tell you, Kenzie, it's okay if you guys went and got a 15-year mortgage where the payment was no more than a quarter of your time.

1:00:15George Kamel:take-home pay, and then you pay that off. Because the truth is, the goalposts will keep moving with this house. That$300 ,000 house four years from now is a$375 ,000 house. Yeah, and I feel like, to a certain extent, the mortgage would make us save more, if that makes sense. Because right now, we're living there kind of rent-free. We don't really have... Yeah, we have a budget, but we're kind of... You're getting lax today's goal. Yeah, you can be a little more comfortable and have a little more of your luxuries when you don't have that. So that's where I'm going. Could you save 70 instead of 60?

1:00:49George Kamel:I think you might be able to do even better if you guys got really focused and went, all right, it's not going to be three to four years. It's going to be May of 2028. We are out of here. And whatever we have saved, that's the down payment. That might be a nice compromise because it gives you a timeline. So this is not an endless, well, maybe, but then four years from now the house price has moved. We want a different house because we have two kids now. Need to save up$500 ,000. So that's where I would come to a compromise where you guys land on something a little more solid. I like that plan.

1:01:19Than vibes. I like that plan too. Good old compromise. Boom.

1:01:23George Kamel:I want nobody to win. That's how you know the argument went well. Yeah. That's so great. Well, congrats on the baby, Kenzie. Thank you. Thank you guys. That's so exciting. That's a good, you know, Jade, this is a good time to remind people that the principles around housing. Dave has always said that the best plan is 100 % down plan. If you can do cash, we love that. But we won't yell at you. If you get a 15-year mortgage, it's the only debt we won't yell at you for where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. So I'm doing the crunch of the numbers for them. A$300 ,000 house with$100 ,000 down on a 15-year, probably looking at about two grand.

1:01:58George Kamel:Yeah. Good. So if they take home eight grand, they're right there in the parameter. They could go buy a house today. Now they're going to take on the burden of home ownership, which comes with its own joys, highs, lows, rollercoaster. Adulting. Yeah. What can I say? It needs a new HVAC the week after we move in with a brand new baby. Yes, but to your point, the goalpost is always going to move here, and I would hate for that to keep somebody from jumping in with both feet. To save up$3.50 or$3.50, that's a great thing, but if it's going to take you six years to do it, well, now suddenly that$3.50 isn't going to get what you thought it was going to.

1:02:32And now you're frustrated. So for that reason.

1:02:33George Kamel:Going, well, I can't save as fast as inflation's happening in the housing market. You can, yeah. And if you saw what happened during the pandemic, I mean, it was insane. Absolutely. That$300 ,000 home 18 months later was$500 ,000. Right. And here's the thing you have to remember. For the person who jumped in, they were like, this is great. If you bought a house in 2019 or real early 2020, you were like, score. Yes. That's why I'm like, jump in. The best time to buy a home is when you can afford it. Not when all the planets are aligned and everything is perfect. is when you can afford it. And if you can do it, I say jump in.

1:03:06Real estate is a ladder. You know, start at the lowest rung that you can get in on and don't be afraid to climb it until you get into the house that you want. Because then you lock in that mortgage payment

1:03:15George Kamel:for the duration of the loan. So you're not dealing with that moving goalpost anymore. And then it's that full savings account. And insurance going up, which that's a piece to factor in. And the last piece is, you know, thinking about Kenzie's situation with a kid on the way, what if she wants to stay home one day? Well, that might change the figures and facts tour, I would be planning for that option. Always. Which means you don't want to have a giant payment and jump into a house too early. There is this Goldilocks sweet spot and that's that 25 % and maybe factor it off his income and where that's going to give you that flexibility.

1:03:48George Kamel:So that's the point of the baby steps is to give you option, margin, meaning, all of that is built into the plan.

1:04:02Thank you.

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1:06:08George Kamel:Or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcasts or YouTube. RJ is in Greensboro, North Carolina, up next. RJ, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. How are you guys doing today? We're doing great. Thanks for having me on. So I'll try to keep this short and sweet. So me and my wife are just starting out and getting started with the baby steps. And we're still working on baby step one. So a thousand bucks. Yep. Thousand bucks. So that goal doesn't seem too unattainable at all. Most people do it in 30 days just for a little milestone there. And that's where we should be at. I'm thinking within the next like 30 days, we should definitely be there.

1:06:52So I guess my question is more towards baby step two when you start paying off consumer debt. To us, it seems like we just have so much debt that needs to be paid off. And we just feel like we don't make enough money to, like, actually make that happen within, like, a reasonable time frame. And that may be the case. I mean, what you're discovering is something that everybody's got to look at, not just you, RJ, for anybody who's considering the baby steps and looking at their debt. There's really two ways out of this, George. you've either got to lower your lifestyle, RJ, or increase your income or do a combination of both.

1:07:35That's the only options really that a person has. So if you're looking and going, man, on our income, this thing is going to take forever, then you already know income's got to go up. So let's talk about what that means.

1:07:47George Kamel:Pull some levers. So how much total consumer debt do you have? So right now I think we have somewhere between$80 ,000 and$85 ,000. All right. And what is your household income? Uh, household income, we're about 70 grand. Okay. And in the 80, 85, what's the, what's the split there? Break it down for us. Um, so most of it is student loans from me. Uh, wife doesn't have any student loans. How much? Um, I'm about 50 ,000 in student loans. Okay. And the other 30, 35, what's that? Uh, so we have about 15 ,000 in a car. and then just random little personal loans. Those are about$300 ,000,$400 each. I want to say about maybe five or six of those.

1:08:32George Kamel:Okay. What's the car worth if you sold it private party? Private party, if I sold it, it'd probably be about$7 ,000 to$8 ,000 grand. Oh, wow. How'd you get that for underwater on it? Do you roll over negative equity? No, I think we just have just very bad credit, so we just got a terrible interest rate. Understood. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you're right. I mean, what are you guys bringing home? $4 ,800,$4 ,900 a month? Yeah, I think that's what we calculated. I know last month we had a little extra because my wife got a bonus from work, which she doesn't normally get. Okay. So that kind of helped us out a bit.

1:09:12And like I said, we're just starting. We're trying to use the EveryDollar app. Excellent. And it seemed to help us out, you know, that first month. Of course, we forgot to budget for the second month, so we're not using it now. That's the thing about budgets.

1:09:27George Kamel:You got to do one every month. Yeah. So when you did that first budget, and I do want, it's not too late. You can still log in at any time and complete the one for May, even though we're almost midway through. But go ahead and do that because every day that you get on a plan, you're on a plan, and that's a better trajectory for you. So on the$4 ,900, when you did the every dollar budget, were you in the green? Was it an every dollar budget or were you in the red? Tell me what you saw. At first we were in the red and then we just kind of shuffled some things around just to kind of make it work to be in the green.

1:10:03So we did kind of figure out how to get into the green. I guess it's just being realistic. Like with us, we never know when things are going to come up. So like with three kids and, you know, kids come with us on field trips or school, school things. And, you know, some emergencies have popped up over the past couple of months. So. So let's talk about how to budget for that, because that is life and your budget should be able to be realistic for your life. I always say a good budget is detailed, realistic and flexible. So you need that flexibility because there's real life. But you also need the detailed nature of it, because that's going to help you have something concrete month to month.

1:10:43So every budget does need a cushion, a little bit of extra money for you, you know, on$4 ,900. It's not going to be a whole lot. Maybe it's$100 there that's just held for something that you completely forgot about. Oh, my gosh, the field trip. But really what you need on that budget is a line item for, you know, your kids, whether it be school lunches or school projects. And you set the amount. And if it's beyond that amount, sometimes you do have to say, we're not doing this one, you know. And so the more you do a budget, for most people, it takes 90 days to lock in what you would call kind of a sustainable, this flows with my life budget.

1:11:21You've only done one, so that's okay. Keep doing it. The more you do it, you're going to learn each time, oh, gosh, we didn't schedule for the kids stuff. Now that's part of the budget from now on. Oh, my gosh, we didn't schedule for birthdays. Now we realize that's something we need to think ahead of when we have our budget meeting every month. Because what should be happening, George, is you guys sit down and you're racking your brain for the things that could pop up. She's racking her brain for the things that could pop up. And together you guys are saying, oh, yeah, hey, don't forget about that trip.

1:11:49Oh, yeah, don't forget about grandma's birthday. Oh, yeah, don't forget.

1:11:52George Kamel:You're interrogating the kids about what's coming up, looking at their little calendars they brought home from school. Because those kids, you can't trust them to remember every little thing. My daughter had like hot dog picnic day today. and I was like what in the world is this okay put you know put that on the budget everyone's got to chip in three bucks exactly so we get it RJ so that's the first rhythm that I want you to start developing because that's going to be so important to you guys walking these baby steps the budget must be locked in otherwise George the wheels fall off very quickly and once one thing falls off you're like well what's the point you know it's hopeless so get back on the wagon it takes 90 days just to get this budget dialed in.

1:12:36George Kamel:And the other side is let's see what we can do with this income. Because you're making 70K with both of you working full time and you've got student loans, which tells me you've got a degree. I do not. So I have a bunch of student loans that kind of a couple of them kind of racked up and I never finished school. One of them I did, you know, one of them I did the main one that that one's about 40 grand. I did graduate from trade school. Okay, what's your trade? So I originally was an automotive technician. I have since switched. I am now at Locksmith, which I just started about maybe a month or two ago.

1:13:13George Kamel:Is that a solo gig or do you work for a locksmith company? I work for an international company. Okay. So what do you make and what does your wife make? So as of right now, like I said, I just started this gig about a month or two ago. And I'm still getting training pay. So that's what I've been basing my income off of. Okay. Yep. So my training pay, I make about$1 ,700 every two weeks. What will it go up to? So just potential of what it could go up to, from what I've been told from some of the other people who've been with the company for a while, I could potentially be making over$100 ,000, maybe$120 ,000.

1:13:54When would that be? um that's kind of when you kind of get vested a little bit that'll be um later down the line maybe within the next year or two okay so that's that's really promising and that's exciting because

1:14:07George Kamel:that could change the game for this debt payoff journey and so that's what we're saying this is a journey most people do it in 18 to 24 months it might take you three to four years and that's okay and it might speed up on the tail end and be real slow to start but the key is you just keep hunkering down, stay focused. Maybe you're doing side jobs right now until that income comes up with those promotions. Maybe you get so good at your job, they have no choice but to promote you sooner. What I would do is I would get really serious about sitting down with your wife and you guys set the tone and say, this year for the next calendar year, how much do we want to pay off and work backwards and say, if we want to pay off, I don't know,$40 ,000 this year, what do we have to do to make that happen and work backwards and say, okay, what do we need to do side hustle wise?

1:14:52What do we need to do overtime wise in order to make that happen? And you guys set the rules on this and make sure that you're driving the intensity forward. Don't just let life happen.

1:15:01George Kamel:That's right. That's the saying we have around Ramsey is what must be true. Yes. And that causes you to reverse engineer that goal.

1:15:25Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

1:15:56Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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1:16:57George Kamel:Jonathan is in Boston up next. Jonathan, welcome to The Ramsey Show. George, thank you for having me. I appreciate your time. Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today? I'm crawling because I'm on baby step four. my wife and I just became completely debt-free paying off$200 ,000 of debt at the age of 24. Wow. Way to go, man. How long did that take? I'd be lying if I said I didn't know. One year, nine months, and about five days. Excellent. That's incredible. What kind of debt was it? It was about$108 ,000 in student debt and then about$10 ,000 for the first little car that I bought right after college.

1:17:38Oh, my gosh. Well, I know you didn't intend for this to be a debt-free scream, but I just, when you say that you paid off that much debt, what caused you to kind of wake up one day and realize this is not the life we want to live? Well, I got a job in the financial industry and I started helping people invest and realized that I should probably start practicing what I preach. my wife and I really have an appreciation for the military so we joined the military and I think that very squared away mindset helped us really get on the right track and start taking action

1:18:10George Kamel:for ourselves I love that fantastic so much congratulations how can we help today this is an exciting stage to be it well I appreciate it so we're in a spot where we're debt-free and we have about 45 ,000, probably 50 ,000 saved now. Um, and personally I'm a huge car guy and I have a lot of friends who are in the same financial situation where they have almost six figures saved up. Um, and they're buying these cars that are not depreciating. And so I thought I may as well take a stab at looking at it. And I found myself looking at something called a Porsche Cayman and it's about, it's about$40 ,000.

1:18:45And I've been very carefully tracking the market of these cars. And I didn't know if it was a better idea to purchase a car that might not lose as much value and maybe being a better option to not have as much depreciation. Well, unless you're buying like a classic car that's going up in value, I mean, everything that you buy is going to depreciate. So the idea that their cars aren't depreciating is not true. Now, a lot of nicer cars, they kind of fall off that initial cliff in the first one or two years. And then they tend to hold their value a little better longer, some better than others. But just know if you're driving something with wheels and a motor, unless it's like I said, a classic car, it is going to go down in value.

1:19:25The question is, can you afford a$40 ,000 vehicle? So tell us about your income. So my wife and I, after tax, bring in about$210 ,000. My comp is set to go up end of this year into next year to about$200 ,000 for myself. And she's probably on track to make$150 ,000. So we should be looking at around$500 ,000 after tax by tax season of this time next year. That's really, really good. What's she driving? She leased a Volkswagen Tiguan with no money down and$300 a month.

1:20:00George Kamel:And then my car is fully paid off. Oh, wow. So you still have the lease. Was that newer? Is that a newer decision or is that an old decision that you've now since learned from? uh so the Volkswagen Tiguan was in 2024 and we have a friend that works on the dealership side so he got us a really good deal and he has kind of unlimited um kind of mileage with the car I think it's like 20 ,000 miles we don't really drive that much so we got a good deal in the car we didn't want to go into debt to buy another car so that's why we made that decision but I mean it's a contract where you promise to make payments that sounds very similar to debt in my book yeah There's not a loan balance that you can stare at and knock down, but I rescind my debt-free scream until this lease is dealt with, Jonathan.

1:20:45George Kamel:I agree. I agree. What is the buyout amount for the car? I think it's$21 ,000. We don't plan to buy the car. So you just want to rent it and then give it back, and then you'll restart this process? What's the game plan? I think we're going to buy a car in cash next year for around$25 ,000 for her. We don't really want to go through that whole lease or debt process again. Okay. I agree with that part. I would never lease a car ever again. It really is one of the most expensive ways to operate a vehicle. And I think the feeling of we got a really good deal and, you know, no money down and all these things.

1:21:21But the truth is it's still money that you're on the hook for unless you make a lump sum payment to get out of it. So it's a risk that you're allowing in your life when you really don't need that. You guys make such a great income. You've got cash saved. And I think you understand that once this happens, never again, because truly lease payments, car payments, they are the divide, Jonathan, between middle class and wealthy folks. It's just really the divide there, especially with the amount that you could invest by not having a car payment or lease payment. OK, so learn lesson there. Moving on to the Porsche.

1:21:56So it's$40 ,000. You guys are making$210 ,000 a year. We do have kind of a rule or thumb when it comes to vehicles. George, we say you should never have anything with the wheels or motors that's more than half of your salary every year. So you guys would not be bumping up against that.

1:22:15George Kamel:So you basically cap it up 100 grand total in vehicles and toys. And so if yours is worth 40, hers is worth 25, you're in good shape. Now, the thing to think about, I wouldn't – at this point, thinking about resale value and depreciation is just going to hurt your soul. That's right because it's happening. So if you're paying cash, you don't have to worry about being underwater. Are you going to drive this thing for seven-plus years? Probably closer to 10. I'd like to keep this car and maybe even pass it down to my kids one day. Wow. Oh, okay. Well, they better be ready for those maintenance and repair costs 10 years from now.

1:22:46George Kamel:That's going to be the problem with cars of this caliber. You're going to need to have a nice, healthy sinking fund in your budget for$2 ,000 to$4 ,000 minimum to maintain this car. Sure. I plan to save about$5 ,000 a year for preventative maintenance and to keep the car and get you. I just thought, you know, it's a car that I've wanted since I was probably six years old. Yeah, I would do it. You said you've got$45 ,000 to$50 ,000 saved. That's not including your emergency fund, right? Or is it? That would be all our savings total. We're saving about$5 ,000 or$6 ,000 a month right now. Okay. So we should hit our$100 ,000 goal by November or December.

1:23:26So I'd be very careful to separate that money and make sure that this$50 ,000, whatever your six months of expenses is, put that someplace separate and then save up for this Porsche, the$40 ,000.

1:23:39George Kamel:And label it car fund. And that way you're not going to make the mistake of thinking this car is an emergency. Yeah, definitely don't do that. If this is the only$50 ,000 that you have, you're not quite ready to buy this yet, but it sounds like you'd be there in the next— Are you saying you do this in November? um well i did get a gear in december so my car is kind of on its last legs right now um so you probably need a car within the next month or two oh wow then i don't think you're ready to buy this one because yeah what is your three to six months emergency fund what would that entail what does it take to run your house for a month uh including rent an additional three thousand a month offer we're probably sitting around six or seven thousand dollars a month so that's around the 25 to 30 thousand range okay so then any money above 25 or 30 is now your car budget and so that that's a hard line you guys have to decide we're not going to do half down half on a loan we're going to pay cash we're going to do this the smart way and that might mean we need to make this car last a little bit longer.

1:24:43George Kamel:Maybe that's a repair. Maybe that's an intermediate car in the meantime for the next six to 12 months. And you know how to do that. You understand delayed gratification. You guys paid off$200 ,000 of mostly student loan debt. So keep flexing that muscle because it's gotten you this far and you've benefited from that. Now's not the time to kind of fall off the things that you know. Do what you know to do that's caused you to be successful to this point. Because right now, if you got 25 in emergency fund, that gives you an extra 25 in this car fund. And you said you can add six grand a month. That's what we're averaging right now.

1:25:19It will probably go up, but I don't want to overestimate.

1:25:22George Kamel:Okay. But let's say, you know, two months from now, that's 12 grand added to your 25. Well, now we're at 37. So you're on the bubble of car shopping. Maybe you get a slightly, you know, one year older, or you decide to wait one more month and now you have 43 ,000. And so if you can just wait 90 days, you're going to be able to get the exact thing you want and pay cash. And I'd be very focused. I'm guessing you've done a whole lot of research on the exact make, the model, the engine, the features, all of that. George, you don't want to see my little poster I have at home that tracks the trend lines of all these cars.

1:25:59George Kamel:Oh, that's incredible. I love the nerdery. But that tells me you're going to make a good decision with this and it's not flippant and impulsive. You said you've been dreaming about this since you were six. Wow. And you've done the work to get there. And so just don't let go. Don't let the foot off the gas, pun intended, quite yet, Jonathan. You were so, so close. And you're going to love that car because you're going into it eyes wide open, understanding it's higher insurance, it's higher maintenance, and it has increased your quality of life. And six-year-old Jonathan is smiling going, dude, you paid cash for a Porsche.

1:26:30Love it.

1:26:31George Kamel:Crushing it, dude. Keep it up.

1:26:54George Kamel:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. The number to call is 888-825-5225. if you want to jump into the conversation about your life and your money. Sean joins us in Baltimore up next. Sean, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. How's it going? Great. How are you? Good, good. Thanks for having me on. So just a quick backstory. My wife and I have followed the baby steps, minus one. We did purchase a vacation house about five years ago, which I know is Dave's pet peeve if we can't afford it with cash. We can financially afford it, but we do have two mortgages right now.

1:27:37So my question is, my wife gets RFUs to her job. We also purchase stock through her employee stock plan. And is it smart to sell those stocks once they vest each quarter and put it towards our mortgages? And which one should I put it towards or reinvest it or not sell them at all and let them sit? I love the idea of selling them once they vest. I would do that anyways.

1:28:02George Kamel:just because you don't want concentration in any single stock. Yes. Enron would like to have a word. And so it's wise to sell them anyways. And if you want to reinvest those into mutual fund or index funds or pay off the house, I would apply it to your next baby step, which for you guys is, I assume, baby step six. Are you guys currently investing 15 % of your household income? We are. Yeah. Great. And you got kids? Are you saving a little bit for college, if so? Yeah, I have two kids. My daughter's 11 and my son is 9, and we have about$50 ,000 in their 529s. Fantastic. And what's left on these two mortgages?

1:28:40So I have about$270 ,000 on my primary and$165 ,000 on the vacation house. So when you sell these stocks quarterly, what do you take away from that? on average probably about 25 to 40 000 it fluctuates awesome it's been it's been yeah the stock has been doing really well recently okay i love that um i would totally do that and i would go towards the principal your main home first because i like the piece of having that paid off even though obviously it's a higher balance um if you had like a full 165 and you

1:29:19George Kamel:could just knock out the vacation home today that would be fine but i'm with jade that the primary home is usually the the focus because that's where you rest your head and so i like that idea of having that paid off what is the mortgage payment on the primary home the mortgage say that one more time what's the mortgage payment for your your home that you're living in right now so it's about $2 ,500, I believe. And what about the vacation? $1 ,800. Okay, yeah. Cool. I feel solid in that approach. How much money do you guys have that you could sort of liquidate to put towards these mortgages? Yeah, so that's what we did.

1:29:57We actually just sold a bunch of stock a few months ago, and we still have about$60 ,000 sitting in our savings. So that's why I wanted to call you guys to see what we should put towards. So really we could drop$60 ,000 really tomorrow, and then we have another vesting period coming up in June. And you still have your emergency fund separate? Emergency fund is separate, yeah.

1:30:22George Kamel:Okay, great. Man, I love that idea for you guys. The number going down faster is always more encouraging and more exciting. Yes. And once you crack under – That's what I always look at. If I'm just going to wipe out the vacation house, it might feel a little bit better. Yeah. I mean either way, you're going to be in good shape. If you're really going after these with your income, which, I mean, you guys are making a couple hundred thousand a year. What's the household income at this point? About$300. Fantastic. I mean, if you did one, if you decided, hey, we're going to do the vacation home first, there are worse things you could do.

1:30:53Like, lightning wouldn't strike you. Nothing bad is there. My thought is just for the purpose of peace, and it doesn't hurt that the monthly payment's more on that one. That's the reason that I selected that. But if you guys sat down together and you decided something differently, I mean, come on.

1:31:09George Kamel:It's usually if you have like seven properties, it's almost like you can sort of debt snowball the properties. But since just your vacation on primary, there's really – it's sort of a choose-your-own-adventure here based on what excites you guys because that's what's going to keep you going. Where is the vacation property? It's in Ocean City, Maryland, so it's about three hours from my primary. Very cool. What's it worth? uh probably about 450 now nice okay and what's your current home worth about 550 to 600 okay very cool i think you guys have done really well for yourselves i think that's really exciting thank you what are you gonna do america wants to know sean lock in your vote i think i'm gonna i think i'm gonna chop down that vacation house Ah, I like it.

1:31:56And then I'll go back to the primary. I like it.

1:31:59George Kamel:And since you've done this before with the vested RSUs, do you know the tax implications of selling off$40 ,000 of those? Yeah, well, we figured that out a couple years ago. Got it. That's the hard way. It probably turns into like— No, I did not. I appreciate you asking that, but no, my accountant did not tell me that. Were you underwithheld and had a big tax bill? Now we know. Were you underwithheld and had a big tax bill? Is that what happened? That's what happened. Yeah. That's a good lesson learned for anybody out there who has RSUs or really, you know, those restricted stock units or employee stock purchase program or whatever it is.

1:32:35George Kamel:If you sell anything and you have a gain or it counts as income, it ends up in your bank account. The IRS wants their cut. And you don't realize how quickly, Sean, it can bump up into different tax brackets. and you go, oh, now we went from like 22 % effective to 28%. That's right. We didn't factor in that extra 6 % of 300 grand or whatever you brought in. Mo' money, mo' problems. I'm proud of you guys, man. That vacation home is going to hit different when there's no mortgage attached to it. Oh, yeah. You'll be even more excited to visit. Yeah. Thanks so much, guys. Yeah. Send us the invite once it's paid off.

1:33:10Yes.

1:33:10George Kamel:I'll enjoy it. A barbecue? I love that. I haven't heard of the barbecue. I like that. The old barbecue. What was I saying? Cookout. Yeah. Is there a difference between a barbecue and a cookout, George? Oh. The public wants to know. I will say a cookout is a different vibe. And how say? I think a cookout feels a little bit more communal. Okay. Okay. A barbecue feels like, all right, we're going to be grilling, but it's a one-man show here. Okay. I'm with you. A cookout is an experience. Cookout is like everybody's coming over. Everybody's bringing a dish. Yes, George. That's how I see it from my vantage point.

1:33:46It could be any weekend. You just throw something on the grill.

1:33:48George Kamel:Yes. Got it. Well, I want to, Sean mentioned something that I think is important to our audience, and that is when you should be purchasing a vacation home. Yes. Let's talk about that, George. We see that as a toy. Yes. It's not producing income, and even if it is, if it's an investment property, we still would say that's risk. Do you want to know what I think? Can I just, the public wants to know. I think our listeners have figured out a way around. I think they figured out a way. They go, we found you guys after we bought the vacation home. They know that if they come to us and it's already the deal's been done, we rarely tell them to sell it because we're like, okay, we can figure this out.

1:34:26I'm starting to pick up on that vibe. Are you?

1:34:28George Kamel:Yeah. I didn't realize that's a life hack to just go, listen. I think that's what's happening here. Start the baby steps after we bought this giant vacation home slash investment property. Yeah, after we started our real estate portfolio of seven houses. Well, luckily, in Sean's case, they are debt-free. They're making$300 ,000, you know, debt-free outside of these mortgages. But a lot of people, they got a bunch of debt. They still have the car loans. They have all these properties, and they think they're real estate gurus. And we go, how much are you making off of this thing? $100 a month. Oh, man, they're losing sleep.

1:35:00George Kamel:Yeah. But with a vacation home, you want it to be a vacation. That's right. You want it to be a blessing. paying two mortgages and it's just really a money sucker. You've got to realize that thing is a toy and you want to de-risk your life. That is the goal. So once you've hit baby step seven, meaning your primary mortgage is paid off, then save up and pay cash for any extra homes on top of that, whether it's an investment property or just a vacation home. That's right. And if you're Dave Ramsey, you don't mix the two. That's right.

1:35:41Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:36:33George Kamel:Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you've been turned away by other lenders because your private student loans are out of control, Y-Refi may still be able to help. They specialize in refinancing options built specifically for borrowers in that situation. So go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Indeed. Today's question comes from Elizabeth in New Mexico. She says, hearing the calls on your show made me realize I want to do better for my son. He turns 18 this year and just started his first job.

1:37:06He makes between$150 to$200 a week as a busboy. He opened a savings account on his own and deposits 50 % of his pay. I was never taught anything about emergency funds or investing. I want him to have the freedom to buy a house, go on vacation, and have a good life. How do I set up an IRA for him? And what accounts should he have other than the savings and IRA? Okay, so let's back it up just a little bit. What I love about Elizabeth's question is she's thinking about her child's future. I don't know any parent who's not doing that. However, you got to be careful not to put the cart before the horse.

1:37:43And I think that Elizabeth, if you wanted to have some sort of a, you know, upma or you wanted to do a brokerage account for him, that'd be fine. But for him with his money, George, I think the first thing for him to focus on is what's in front of him, which is a new car, you know, college goals. Yeah, those short term goals. And so for that reason, I'd like for his money to stay liquid. I would not invest his money at this time. I would do a high yield savings account if he needed it. Obviously, a checking account for, you know, day to day and month to month spending. But if he's saving 50 % of his pay, yeah, throw it in a high yield and he can save up for, like I said, a car.

1:38:24He can save up for an apartment. He can save up for higher ed, whether that looks like trades or certificates or even going to a university or community college. And that would be my number one goal for an 18-year-old right now. George, what say you?

1:38:38George Kamel:Well, I love that he has this habit of depositing 50 % of his pay. Excellent. That's the hardest part is just to build that muscle of delayed gratification, living on less than you make. Because if he's doing that making 150 bucks, If he can continue that making$1 ,500 a week, now we're actually in business. Because right now, he's not making enough to do any damage when it comes to a home down payment or a vacation. Right now, he's just an 18-year-old trying to figure out his life. So that's where you can step in as mom and help him navigate that. Ask him really good questions. Support him. Find him opportunities where he can figure out that thing he wants to sink his teeth into.

1:39:14George Kamel:And that might mean education. It could mean trade school. It could be a two-year community college. It could be four-year. Yep. maybe he's an entrepreneur and he wants to start his own thing. You can support him in that. And that's the best thing you can do as a mom. And the investing will come, like Jade said, when the time is right. Yeah. Because I don't want him going to get a car loan because he's been investing all of his money. He doesn't want to unlock it. But doesn't have$25 ,000 for a car. And I think that's so good. I think as a parent, the best thing you can do is teach your kids healthy and smart money habits.

1:39:41I know for our kids, so our kids are on, I mean, they get paid for their chores basically. So they get paid. Yeah, commissions. or just paycheck, whatever. So they get paid at the end of every week. But Sam and I's rule is you do not get to spend the money until the end of the month. So the habit that we're trying to build with them is I don't spend my money as soon as I get it. So I get paid every Saturday, but not until the fourth Saturday can I spend. And the other thing that we teach them to do, I can't say we make them do it, but we teach them, okay, if you do want to spend your money, we have them tell us what's something that you're thinking before we ever go to the store.

1:40:19what's something that you think you need or that you have your eye on. That way we're identifying, we don't just go to the store and let the store tell us what we want.

1:40:27George Kamel:Let the shelves speak to us. We say, what are you thinking about? And my daughter said, I'd like to get roller skates. And I was thinking about clothes for my adult, like give us three things. And then when we go to shop, those are the things we keep our eye out for. So I think those are the types of habits and just really mindset that you want to teach your kids. I like that. And we always say more is caught than taught. And he's been watching mom. He's continuing to watch mom. And so it doesn't matter what you say at this point. He's going to be looking at what you do. And so I love that you're taking this seriously.

1:40:58George Kamel:And if you have an open money conversation, that's a great start to not hide it under a bushel, as they say. Yeah, hide it under a bushel. All right. Jessica's in Philadelphia up next. Jessica, welcome to the show. Awesome. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. We are, too. How can we help? so i'm a single mom as of two and a half years ago and i have been surviving on my own um i'm a little bit concerned with my income in the case that it doesn't go up because i don't have a great um a great income through my career because i was i always had a job to kind of support my marriage not to support myself as a single mom.

1:41:42Okay. So I only make about$50 ,000 a year through my nine to five. And then I also have a side hustle, but I very much rely on child support to get by, to kind of make ends meet. How much is that? And in a couple of years, my child support, I get about$2 ,000 a month for child support. So in two years, when my oldest turns 18, that's going to be cut in half. and while I'm doing everything I can to like find a better job and I'm you know working my butt on nights and weekends at this side hustle that I'm doing um I'm just worried about kind of preparing for that for that change that's happening in two years because I want to make sure that I'm going to be okay uh what do you bring in so you've got 50 ,000 from your main job what does the side hustle bring in every month?

1:42:32It fluctuates a lot. It can be anywhere between, I don't know,$800 and$2 ,000. Okay. It's not consistent, and I don't want to rely on that.

1:42:48George Kamel:Understood. You want to up your core income. And we're talking, it's going from$24 to$12. So the gap we need to fill in two years is$12 ,000 a year, about$1 ,000 a month. Yeah. what's your margin as it stands today like when you do your every dollar budget today how much margin do you have to put towards your next goal so I actually just started figuring out how to budget because I've spent the last two years just trying to stand on my own two feet I never I'm so financially illiterate and I've had to learn a lot over the last two years so and I started from scratch with zero dollars absolutely nothing to my name and um so I'm only just starting to get into the budgeting thing.

1:43:29Okay. And I would say that probably I'm able to put right now about$800 ,000 to$2 ,000 into savings. Like I've been trying to dump everything into savings right now. I do have a car payment too. So I don't know where my money should be going. Okay.

1:43:45George Kamel:We can help give you some focus there for sure. Yeah. Us seeing that. So basically your margin would be gone when this happens in two years. And I think that there's probably some places that we can find it. You mentioned some debt. So what other debts do you have? I only have a car payment. I have a little bit of debt to a hospital because my son had to have surgery, but I'm working with a hospital and figuring that out. So I'm not too worried about that one. Okay. How much is it? My car payment is about, the hospital debt's about$3 ,000. Okay. And how much is the car debt? I owe$8 ,500 still.

1:44:21Okay. What's the payment? it's$300 a month okay so we're a third there if we can clear up that car payment

1:44:30George Kamel:you'll give yourself a little raise just by paying that off how much money do you have to your name right now in savings so in savings i have about$13 ,000 okay awesome so i'd actually the the 800 to a thousand dollars a month that you're putting in savings i'd actually start applying that to your debt snowball. So debt snowball is a method of attacking debt. And here we teach that taking your income back is the most important thing that you can do, right? Your income is your biggest wealth building tool. So we would say, hey, first thing you need, you need$1 ,000 saved as a cushion. Next thing, we're attacking debt, debt snowball method.

1:45:08We're paying off the debt smallest to largest. I think I heard you say you have$13 ,000 saved. Yes. I would jump in that today.

1:45:16George Kamel:What if you paid it off today and you were left with$4 ,500 which is still awesome and next month it's$6 ,500 if you crush it and get that$2 ,000. How would that feel? I would just be it's taken me so long to get to the$13 ,000 it would make me nervous. I mean I guess I can always work more. Well let's do math because math helps set everything straight. The truth is you don't have$13 ,000 saved. okay, you got 12 in debt. So you have$1 ,000. That's the truth. That's the on-paper math. That's the on-paper math. You only have$1 ,000 to your name anyway. So you may as well pay off the debt and make it so, and then keep adding to it.

1:46:01George Kamel:Debt-free emergency fund, then begin investing. You'll be on the path if you just start focusing your money. You got this.

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1:47:50George Kamel:Mark is in Birmingham up next. Mark, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys doing today? We're doing great. What's going on with you? Thank you for having me. Sure. So I have a little predicament. Oh, not a predicament, I guess, but I'm wondering if you guys think that it is okay for me to quit my job because I'm basically working two full-time jobs with my side business as well that I've built. And I honestly hate my nine-to-five. Absolutely hate it. Got a new boss. And it has become extraordinarily difficult for me to even get up in the morning and want to go. Wow. What sort of things are happening there?

1:48:34George Kamel:What's your job so I can make sure I never do it? Don't apply, George. Well, I'm in retail. I'm in retail. I've been in retail for my entire adult life, and I built a YouTube channel up. And basically now it's my dad laughs at me because he thinks that I should just quit. But I do have insurance through my job, and that's, of course, a very important thing. You know, I'm 30 years old now, so I'm getting older and trying to take care of my health as well. But what do you make from the YouTube channel and what do you make from retail? uh so retail i bring home a salary of like 3200 a month uh bring home and youtube is kind of up and down depending on like if i have brand deals or if it's a good month bad month whatever uh but on average uh here this year i've made around eight to nine thousand dollars a month just off of youtube and what i've basically done is yeah and like good months i can like i've made 15 to 20 grand off of YouTube in months before.

1:49:39I mean, isn't that enough that you could buy your own insurance and you wouldn't need to be on the retail company's insurance if that's the only thing keeping you at that job? The benefits? I could. I just don't know how expensive that would be. Even though I do have like an LLC and everything, I just really haven't. I mean, I'd go on to...

1:49:58George Kamel:Mark, I got your homework assignment right here, okay? When you're done with the call, go to healthtrustfinancial.com. They're a health insurance broker that we recommend that can shop for you to find you the best coverage at the best price. So once you have that information, you're going to feel more confident to go, okay, it's$1 ,200 a month for the coverage I need. Great. I can stomach that considering your mental health is on the line and you're making triple with YouTube pretty consistently. How consistent has this been that you've made more than, you know, four grand a month on YouTube? Every month for the last year?

1:50:34Last, yeah. Last month was my worst month I've had in like the last three years and I made five grand. Cool.

1:50:42George Kamel:So you know that's the floor right now. Yeah. I'm at like 115 ,000 subscribers and, you know, it's continuously growing. What kind of channel is this? What kind of content do you do? yeah i i'm looking it up what what are you called i just want to know uh okay um okay he got kicks is the name uh so we changed my name from mark to something else uh because i don't like everybody knowing how much money i have you said he got kicks i see you yeah with yeah there we go and uh yeah and i've done that and i've saved up like 135 000 there you go there's your off ramp even if you need some cushion this is the channel i need to be following you got the right person on the call mark because jade's a big she's a shoe head i think is what they're called sneaker head sneaker head yeah that's how old i am he said a shoe head that's okay i'll take it it's fine that's how not cool i am i listen when you tell me the numbers dude put your two weeks in yes tomorrow because here's the thing if you decide that oh man i want this thirty two hundred dollars back go get another retail job right retail will always be there they're always going to need marks of the world but right now you you enjoy this youtube stuff right oh i mean it's my passion it really and honestly saved my life how many hours are you putting into right now with your retail job every week?

1:52:15With retail, I'm at 40 and with YouTube, I'm at least at 75 to 80. I do, you know, because I'm also trying to build another channel as well about technology and trying to build that up as well.

1:52:31George Kamel:So I'm really, dude, I would ride this train until morning. Follow the passion. It's been lucrative for you and it seems like you have cracked a code that many are trying to crack. So keep going in that direction. Yeah. And you can afford, I'm telling you, you can afford health insurance for yourself. Is it just you or is it an entire family? It's just me. My girlfriend lives with me. And I mean, she makes like 75 grand a year too, but I mean. And it's just, then it's just for you. You can afford that. Yeah. Correct. Congrats, Mark. You just earned another subscriber from Jade today. That's exciting.

1:53:06Wait, let me go and click this. Let me smash that. Let me smash that. subscribe button.

1:53:10George Kamel:That's pretty cool. And it is true, Jade. I mean, it's crazy. We'll talk to like a 13 year old who's making seven grand a month from YouTube. It's just a different environment. Different environment. And not everyone's going to understand it, but it sounds like even your family's supportive. Your dad's laughing at you saying, dude, you made nine grand a month from this YouTube channel. It's time to go. Why are you spending 40 hours a week in retail? I love it. That's a great story. You got kicks. That's the American dream right there is becoming a YouTuber. Liz is in Omaha up next. Liz, how can we help?

1:53:39Hey, I'm Jaden George.

1:53:42George Kamel:What's going on? So how can I let go of my savings account that I've built over a decade? I'm a workaholic and I work about 60 to 80 hours a week. And the only debt I really have is about 500 in credit cards. Just I paid off each year, I mean each month. Okay. And I got in a hit and run accident in 2023 and I financed a car. Oh, what's left on the balance? So about$12 ,675. And how much do you have in savings? So I have two bank accounts. I moved up here in Omaha from South Carolina. And in my South Carolina bank account, I have about$12 ,667 in a CD. Actually, it's in a CD. And I have$800 in the savings account in that same bank.

1:54:56And then the bank that I use right now, I have$38 ,000 and about$1 ,000 in checking. I just found you guys in February, in the February beginning of March, and now I'm just obsessed with you guys. I listen to you guys 24-7. And I did the baby steps backwards. I opened a Roth IRA a couple months ago, and my savings account is now$38 ,000. So I had$47 ,000 in my Wells Fargo, and now I just can't get myself to make that last. I could really pay off this car right now if I wanted to. Yeah, just take the$12 ,000 from the one savings account and knock it out. The CD?

1:55:48George Kamel:Yeah, why not? I mean, look at the reality of this. You pay off this car and you're left with$25 ,000. Can you live with that? Can you stack back up some cash? I mean, I work two jobs now. I probably could. Yeah. I mean, you're a workaholic. You're a saveaholic. It's time to be a debt-freeaholic. How about that? What are you making from these two jobs, from these 80 hours a week? uh 15 from covert from culver's and uh i'm a vendor so i make 22 an hour and i do about i will say this i will say this to you liz i might look for some jobs that are a little bit higher paying so that you're not having to work 80 hours to get the same result because that'll break your back after a while if you can work 40 to get the same amount of pay you'll get your mental health back and you won't have to be so aggressive in every other area.

1:56:43George Kamel:But I would pay off the car today. And if you don't sleep good at night with a paid off car, you can always go get another loan. They'll give it to you.

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1:57:59George Kamel:Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3, verses 1 and 2. There is a time for everything And a season for every activity under the heavens A time to be born and a time to die A time to plant And a time to uproot Michael Altshuler Said the bad news is time flies The good news is You're the pilot Look at that I'm the pilot of time In my own life I guess I'll chew on that one Michael Thank you Okay. All right. Neil is in Grand Rapids up next. What's going on, Neil? Hi, Jade and George. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. I'm retiring next year, and my wife and I are both 75 years old, and we've been married for 59 years.

1:58:46Congratulations. Thank you. I think we're in great shape financially. My wife is still a little nervous. If you do the math, we were married when we were 16 years old, and I was a father at 16. So talk about baby steps. Wow, amazing, Neil. Yes, and I was working in a car wash. So I understand why she's a little nervous about money because we started out dirt poor. She doesn't want to go back to being poor. But I think we're in good shape. Our kids are all grown. They're all financially okay. I don't plan on leaving money to them intentionally. And I think here's what we have. We have our home is worth$350 ,000.

1:59:31We have a$63 ,000 mortgage at two and three quarters percent. We have Social Security after taxes of$41 ,000 a year. We have a 401 worth about$450 ,000. We have a Roth IRA at about$150 ,000. and we usually carry about$40 ,000 or$50 ,000 in our bank checking account. Beyond that, we have cars and antiques worth about another$100 ,000. Are the cars paid off? Yes. Okay, good. So we have no other bills. So the Social Security, what is that,$3 ,000 a month? About, yes. Is that enough to, can you live solely off the Social Security or do you need, how much do you pull out of the, would you be pulling out of the 401k and the Roth?

2:00:22I would think we kind of did it, and it's going to be a little hard to figure, but about another$10 ,000 per year. Okay.

2:00:31George Kamel:Is what you need out of the retirement accounts? Yes. Okay. Yes. We'll call it 12. So what's your question today? Well, I'd like to take time for travel and entertainment. I'm looking at about$15 ,000 a year, maybe$20 ,000 that I think we should be able to enjoy our lives over the next 15 years. That's going to$90 ,000. I think I'm aggressively on our 401s, et cetera. But I think I would downplay that down to about a 50 % short term after I'm retired, 30 % in an index fund. and 20 in an FDIC. So I do the math, and it looks like we're okay. But again, my wife's a little nervous, and I get it. So would you be pulling from retirement, instead of pulling 12, you'd pull 24?

2:01:27George Kamel:Yes. Something like that? Okay. I mean, I'm crunching some napkin math here. If you had a 24 run retirement, let's say you guys live to be 99, and just using your 600 grand, if you needed to pull 24 grand a year from retirement, you have a 99.2 % success rate. And that's not counting the antiques, the money. So mathematically, you're okay. And I would have her and you sit down with a SmartVestor Pro to actually show her these projections, to show her just how small of a chance there is of failure with these numbers. Now, if you ramp it up, they'll show you, hey, if you ramp up to 36 instead of 24, you could run into problems if you guys live to be 100.

2:02:07Sure.

2:02:08George Kamel:And then you guys can have actual facts. Right now, it's just all emotion. Right, right. And I understand. The first 10 years of our marriage, we were struggling. And then we started investing late. I had a business, so I didn't invest in the 401 until I was probably 50. So, you know, it went from there. But, yeah, I understand it. Pardon me? What's the mortgage payment every month? Mortgage payment, I think it's$700 approximately. Okay. I was just wondering if there was a compromise here where you said, hey, we're going to sell off some of the antiques, pay off the mortgage, that'll free up$700.

2:02:45George Kamel:Would that make you feel better about us loosening the purse strings a little bit and enjoying our retirement? I'll tell you, it'd make me feel better. Yes. Well, she doesn't want to pay off the mortgage because I suggested we do that. Why doesn't she want to? Well, because she's earned, she's worked our way to a 2.75 interest rate. She's very proud of that. And she likes knowing that we have paying the bills. She does a good job with it. And I think there's a little security there. You said she likes paying the bill. There's security in owning your own home free and clear, not the bank owning it.

2:03:21She'd still pay the taxes.

2:03:23George Kamel:Right, right. Let her pay the insurance and taxes and she can have a field day. But if she's worried about money and she's also saying, I want to keep my$700 payment, well, now we have two conflicting opinions. Do you want to keep the interest rate or do you want to enjoy retirement? Yeah. I mean, you said you're going to work for one more year. Yes. If you reached over and you paid off the mortgage and then for the next year you put the$700 back and reinvested it along with what you're doing now, that feels pretty good to me. Yeah, I think so. And that's what I was talking about too. So, yeah, I think she's going to be okay.

2:03:58She's probably listening. I'm working out of town, but just knowing that somebody else agrees with me, I think she knows. But we just want to enjoy ourselves. What kind of work do you do, Neil? I'm a CEO right now. I did construction most of my life, but I've been a CEO for 20 years. Fantastic. Way to go. Proud of you guys. Congrats on 59 years. That's really incredible.

2:04:22George Kamel:Enjoying retirement because the truth is, Neil, you're 75. I hope you guys live to 100, but we don't know what the future holds. And some people hoard the money and go, well, when we're 80, we'll enjoy it. And then there's a health problem. And now they can't travel and they can't enjoy it. And so there's a great book, too, called Die With Zero. I don't agree with everything in the book, but the general premise is pretty good of enjoy your money while you're alive and spoil your kids while you're alive and not hoard it until they're in their 60s and you give them a million bucks that they don't need anymore.

2:04:52George Kamel:more. It goes right along with our scripture and quote of the day. There's a time for everything. That's right. It's time to live. So I hope she's listening, Neil, and I hope that helps, but I would sit down with a professional who can run these actual numbers and show her the truth and show you the guardrails. Hey, you can spend between this and this and be totally fine. Even in a worst case scenario, here's where you'd be. So I hope that helps. Thomas is in Bentonville, Arkansas. Thomas, what's your question today? Hi there. I make about$50 ,000 a year take home, and I was just curious on how you guys could have, how to afford a house.

2:05:31That income is subject to change due to promotions in the future. I'm only 23 years old. Well, I'm baby step three right now, and we're trying to build a nice emergency fund because we're a one-income household with a little boy at home. Oh, wow.

2:05:47George Kamel:And that's, you want to keep it that way. Let's, you want to keep her at home, keep you working and let's increase the income so that we can become homeowners instead of continuing to rent. Yes. What do things cost in your area to have the type of home that you're thinking of reasonably? What would you have to spend? Right around 300 ,000 right now. There's nothing within an hour of work that we can afford with the 25 % rule. Yeah. And I was going to say, you know, the 25 % rule, that's good. And you're bringing home, what is that around 3 ,500 a month? Yeah, around a little more, actually 3 ,900.

2:06:31George Kamel:Okay. Because right now that means a thousand dollar mortgage payment, which as you can imagine, very difficult with today's housing prices and interest rates, which means we need to either save more for the down payment or change the home price. And that's going to take some patience in getting your income up. So that's what I would be focused on. You're 23. That's a great income. I would focus on what can I do to start making 60, 70, 80 over the next couple of years so that you have more margin to stack for the down payment. Yeah. And let me just encourage you that 23 is so young. My husband and I got married at 23 and we didn't buy our first house together until, oh my goodness, was that 35 that we bought?

2:07:07George Kamel:And the average age now, Jade, is like 38 to 40 for first time homeowner. So I wouldn't be in a rush, Thomas, but I would be very intentional on working on my income, staying debt free, setting a goal, you and your wife sitting down saying, hey, we're going to save 24 ,000 a year. That's 2 ,000 a month. We got to sock away into this high yield savings account. What must be true for us to get there? I need to go make more money. We need to cut down our expenses. Hope that helps. That puts this hour of the show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.