Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty

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21:13Dave Ramsey:Well, the Ramsey Show, watching this show happen as we tape it right in front of you, is going on tour next month. In April, we're going to be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim. If you've never experienced the Ramsey Show in person, then you've never seen it like this before. It's a perfect date night. One of you is a spender. One of you is a saver. Come out. Rachel, John, George, Jade, Ken will settle your money debates right there in front of all the people in the audience.

21:44Dave Ramsey:Tickets are almost sold out, but not quite. There's a few left and just a couple of VIP seats remaining. Don't wait. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Michael's in Green Bay. Hey, Michael, what's up? Hey, Dave. It's nice talking to you. I listen to your show quite a bit, and I am about 20 years old with about 50 grand in debt. Um, 30 of that being a car loan, um, three of it being from a square loan from the business that I shut down here recently. And some of it's medical, like just outstanding medical debt. Like, I mean, I was in a motorcycle accident three years ago that I saw them paid.

22:32Um, I owe a friend of a fan or family friend about three grand. um i owe like a tire shop almost two grand like i i guess my question that i want to ask you today is like i don't know where to start with this because it feels like a lot and i truthfully don't know where a lot of the debt is um like i owed a dermatology group sorry like 800 bucks and i owe like other medical companies money and i just don't know exactly where all that debt is where the creditors are, like every now and then I get calls.

23:07Dave Ramsey:Yeah, Michael. So how has your life been so chaotic in the last two or three years that this has happened? Because it sounds like you're just spiraling, man. It sounds like chaos. Yeah, I'd agree. Truthfully, it is. And two years ago, I started my own business with my best friend. We found a building to go into, and truthfully, it just kind of took off like crazy. and then it didn't. Correct. I had bought them out of the business, went solo. I got in some trouble, small trouble with my previous account. I even owe my previous account 800 bucks and, and they did no work for me. They filed my taxes late for me.

23:52So I'm finally out of the tax that I had to employ at the time, I guess. So you, at the end of the day, you really weren't making a

24:00Dave Ramsey:lot of money because all the bills weren't paid unless you were spending it on cocaine or something where did the money go i'm gonna so honestly i was really bad at saving and i wish i did it better if i'm not saving i mean you got these little 800 bills that aren't paid so you probably weren't actually making any profit were you honestly and it sounds dumb but i was i was making well then Where would you say the money went? Where would you say the money went? Food every day. $120 ,000 worth of food? I wouldn't say it's all food, but a lot of just really small spending that just leaked. I decided to get a German Shepherd last year.

24:46You're going to kill me for this. I just traded in a 2023 Tesla Model 3 just last night for a truck. because the Wisconsin winners, obviously, an electric vehicle is not going to do me justice. Last night? Like literally like 12 hours ago? Yes. Oh, Michael. Like quite literally last night. Michael, Michael, you said you've been listening to the show. I have been. I know. I know. I also have a$7 ,000 person. Okay, Michael, Michael, Michael, what are you doing right now for a job? What are you doing? I currently work for an automotive supplier. I make a base salary of$45 a year. After commission, give or take, it's about roughly$50.

25:29Okay. And you just bought a$30 ,000 car?

25:34Dave Ramsey:Yes. Okay. You need to call them back, honey, and tell them to cancel the transaction that you're not going through with it. As soon as you get off the phone. So, my thing is, is I traded in my old car. Are you going to argue with me about something that stupid? you're really not going to argue with me about something that's stupid, are you? Please tell me that you want to have a better life than you have. You keep doing stupid stuff. You're going to have a stupid life, honey. That thing last night was absolute freaking brain damage. You understand that? Yeah. I mean, dude, really? I love you, but good God, that was dumb.

26:13So can I say my point of view really quick on that?

26:16Dave Ramsey:Not really. You can just call them back and cancel the transaction or you can have a good life. All right. Jordan is in Kansas City. Hey, Jordan, how are you? Hello, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was wondering if I should pay down my current student loan burden with single stocks that I hold. You could pay down your what? Student loan debt. Oh, cool. How much student loan debt have you got? Just a little under$170 ,000. Whoa, are you a doctor or a lawyer? A veterinarian. Oh, good. What do you make? Currently, I make about$78 ,000. Wow. You must have just got out. Yeah, I graduated a few years ago.

27:03Currently in internships. That kind of begs the next question. I've actually gone into a program to help me specialize, But that program, being a residency program, pays less, actually, than what I make now.

27:17Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you don't need to be in a residency program. You're broke. You need to be making$130 ,000 as a veterinarian, not$70 ,000. Right, yeah. And to go and market for a – are you fully licensed DVM now? Yeah, fully licensed. Okay, you need to be making$130 ,000, not$70 ,000. And you don't need to go into a residency for specialization. You're broke. You went in debt to become a DVM. Now go be one, dude, and go back and do your specialization in five years. Yeah, okay. So even with the upside of making over$200 post-residency. Yeah, five years from now, I think that's a great idea. But you'll make a lot more than$200 as a DVM that owns his own practice, too.

28:00Dave Ramsey:So why don't you go be a DVM, clean up the debt, then open your own practice with some cash, and you'll make more than$200, and then you can decide if you actually want to specialize. you do know this is true right i mean we work with dvms all over america there are some of the people we coach i know what the numbers look like i mean the typical one makes between 130 and 150 as a salary working for someone else and when you open your own practice and start running the actual business aspect of it you generally are going to go 200 to a quarter of a million I'm assuming some mix between small animal and large animal here.

28:37Dave Ramsey:I'm not assuming just racehorses or something like that. We're doing predominantly small animals in the racehorse industry, right? Because people spend money on their pets in America. George Camel will employ you for a full year. George Camel will pay off your debt single-handedly. Oh, my gosh. But, Jordan, yes, if you have single stocks, you can cash those in. I would cash those in immediately and pay down your debt. Yes. And I would be working on getting your income up immediately. And try to get this paid off in two to three years, right, if you're making that kind of money. So just live on nothing.

29:11Dave Ramsey:So, Jordan, look around the DVM world, okay? It is being corporate. It's being taken over by corporate America. And if you want to be an employee of corporate America, go get your specialization. if you want to be self-employed and control your own destiny and own your business and own your own butt and not somebody else owns your butt then you cannot specialize use this stock to get this knocked down get your income up as an employee right now and then go with a four-year plan five-year plan opening your own thing if you want to add specialization to that on the side but i would not have it as my long-term goal to be an employee with specialization as a dvm because you're going to end up working for corporate America and they're going to piss on you.

29:55Dave Ramsey:And so welcome to the medical field. And so we work with these guys all the time. This is the advice we give them. You can own a piece of your whole community when you own a DVM practice. The people that are loyal to you, they're more loyal to you than anything else when it's their dog or their cat. They'll do anything for you. You're like part of their family. And that's a whole lot different than being an employee of corporate America.

31:00Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100, when people say, I don't know where my money goes, it's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal. Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money. like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're not going to fix your habits. That part's on you. But they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high-yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose.

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32:15Dave Ramsey:Landon is with us in Memphis. Hi, Landon. How are you? Hey Dave and Rachel, I appreciate y 'all taking my call Sure, what's up? So just the context behind this is Dave, I had a call with you when I was 22 years old and you told me that if I did exactly what she said that I would be a millionaire by the time I was 32 and we were able to accomplish that by the time we were 28 so I just want to let you know that y 'all mean the world to us and my children's children will be grateful for y 'all one day so I really appreciate you I'm proud of you man, excellent Landon. You should call the guy from the last segment.

32:50Talk to him. So with that being said, this is probably going to sound so stupid, but I'm so nervous to make a dumb decision after what we've worked so hard for that I just had to get y 'all's advice on it. So we're worth right at about a million one, maybe a little bit less than that. And we have 15 acres of property that we want to build a house on. My house currently is paid for. and the issue is I just bought this house two years ago new and then of course we have a guy moving next door with his mom that just got out of prison after 20 years for child crimes and it really freaking sucks that I can't let my kids in the backyard to play because he will watch them through the fence pickets.

33:34Not but once. Geez. Yeah so it really really sucks and so So with that, we just want to go ahead and build this house on this property. But the problem is there's basically two to three options. Number one, we can take out a construction loan to go ahead and start the deal. Once it's done, sell our house and pay off the construction loan. But the problem with that is we feel like we're violating what we've been so committed to for this many years. But it's kind of heartbreaking to do it. That's number one. Number two is we can sell our house now and go rent something. but I really hate to make my wife move twice, have two babies in the process, have to figure out the dog situation.

34:14Not when there's a creep living next door, though, Landon. Don't you guys want out?

34:17Dave Ramsey:I agree. I agree. I want to go rent to get away from the creepo because otherwise I'm going to end up in jail for murdering him. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So you would just go ahead, sell it, rent, move twice, deal with the dog situation, the whole deal. The benefit of getting away from the creepo is it also frees up the money to do the build. I agree. I do agree. I would love nothing more than to not do a construction on this stupid thing. Yeah, and you guys will be somewhere 9 to 12 months, and it won't be super fun. But you would look at it. I mean, that just goes so fast time-wise. Do you know what I mean?

34:54Like, it's just going to be for a quick time.

34:57Dave Ramsey:And here's the thing. Here's the thing. You're a millionaire. Way to go. You're 28 years old. Way to go. What's your household income? Last year I made$250, but my income varies. I'm commission only. And you don't have a stinking debt in the world. Correct. And the house will sell for how much? I mean, I'm fully expecting to lose some money on it because I've got to pay an agent and pay... House will sell for how much? Probably$470. I'll probably lose$20 to$30 grand. Okay, and what is it going to take to do the build? $500. Okay, and you've got the other money. I've got$200 ,000 in liquid cash right now, not counting retirement.

35:38Dave Ramsey:So here's what's going to be uncomfortable for you, but you're going to do it anyway if you follow my advice. And you did last time. Okay. Yeah, I'll do it again. Rent something for one year that's ridiculously nice. Yeah. And that makes this adventure kind of fun. Sure. And it's so nice that you put up an extra deposit and they don't mind your dogs in the backyard and your kids are away from Creepozoid and your wife doesn't mind moving because she's moving up. Go rent an$800 ,000 house. Yeah, yeah. Because it's not that much money out of the whole scope of your life. And it puts grease in the wheels to make this move happen properly.

36:29Dave Ramsey:And so you can afford to do all of that. You make a good, you make, this is not a permanent decision. It's a temporary decision. And it's making a uncomfortable thing, a double move, fun. Yeah. So you would do that even though you're taking on a monthly payment that you haven't had for years now. Yes. And you're taking away from the other things you're doing. Yes, because you don't have a monthly payment on a construction interest, construction loan interest. Sure, sure, sure. Okay, so there's no scenario in this where you're doing a construction loan after where we're at? Well, you could if you want to, but that would involve staying in the house.

37:11Dave Ramsey:Yeah. You weren't kidding. The guy's looking through the slats of the fence? I'm dead serious. He will do that. I'm not kidding. I don't know how you didn't respond to that. I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did. I spent$8 ,000 in cameras and equipment. And then I'm going to swear out a warrant. Well, the point is, you've got to get away from this. Yeah, the point is, you will have more peace from the financial aspect. Because you already were just like, oh, I don't want to do the construction. Again, you could, but you didn't feel good about that. And your current situation, you guys, I mean, if I was your wife and I had two little kids, yeah, I mean, that's miserable.

37:50Go rent. How do you go to work? I like when Dave likes to spend money. I like this because go rent like an amazing house. Well, you've lived like no one else.

37:58Dave Ramsey:And so now you can live like no one. Go live like on a farm or something. Like something that you wouldn't normally do. You've got a nice pool and a big backyard with cows. He's got 15 acres. Well, they're going to move to a farm. I know. Move to a fun, I don't know. Just have fun for a year somewhere. I like that. Pretend like you're doing it. We had a friend do that. And she moved into like a historic type home. And it was the coolest. But it was for a year. But it was beautiful. So fun. Yeah. I like that idea. But you've got the money. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally, totally.

38:26Dave Ramsey:So let's not confuse this with somebody that's broke. No, no, no, no. That's calling me up and going, I bought a Tesla last night. I know. That's usually people that call this show. So it's fun when people who are winning, you might go spend and, yes, enjoy your life. That's good. And you're not having to violate the go back in debt thing. And most importantly, though, I'm getting away from Creepazoid because I'm serious. I can't visualize going to work and leaving my wife and two little kids at home. Once this guy's got his eyeball through. No way. I'm really afraid I would lose my mind and end up in jail.

39:00Dave Ramsey:We know. You've said that twice on this call. I know. I know. I know. But it's just, these people, man. Okay. Yeah. I mess with little kids. I mean, you know, this is not a good thing. So, yeah, Landon, I think this is why you have worked so hard. The payoff for all of your sacrifice is you got choices. And I'm suggesting you make this an easiest possible process with those choices because it is a temporary thing. It's not a five-year plan. It's a 12-month plan. Yeah, that's right. And quickly get your plans drawn, select your builder, lay out a budget, a schedule, and a blueprint. and manage to those three things and get that house out of the ground and get it done as quick as you possibly can.

39:45And just don't let a budget creep out of what you guys have worked on.

39:48Dave Ramsey:Stay on schedule and stay on blueprint. And not 19 change orders and stay on budget, stay on blueprint, stay on schedule. And you can get a house out of the ground. And you'll be your builder's favorite customer ever because most people can't stay on budget, stay on schedule, and stay on blueprint. So if you'll do that, you can get the house out of the ground in 12 months. You'll be fine. You'll be on the farm. and life is good. You got some distance between you and the neighbors, which is always a good thing. Wow. The world we live in. Well, and I just love what he said, though, calling it 23 and said, or he was 22.

40:24Dave Ramsey:22. I told him by 32, he'd be a millionaire. Yeah, if you did these things. And he made it by 28. Yes, yes. So it does. Proud of it. Proves out. Well done, Landon. You follow this stuff, it works. I mean, I didn't invent any of it. I stole it all from God and your grandmother. common sense is so rare in america though that it's like having a superpower and so yeah so we have a wildly popular show that 30 million people tune into every week who knew but that's it that's why because this stuff works and i'm so and and you are the hero landon you did this i appreciate you you know giving us credit and but you're the guy that did all the hard work for the last decade or six years in your case it didn't take you a whole decade wow from 22 to 2080 because a millionaire and I just love Gen Z.

41:12Dave Ramsey:Gen Z has got so much potential. There's so many things they can do. There's so many things at their fingertips and they're so smart on how they use them when they're smart. But there's no middle ground. The dumbest person on the planet is a dumb Gen Z. Okay. The smartest person on the planet is a smart Gen Z. Oh my God, they're wonderful and they're simultaneously aggravating.

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43:20Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Another Rachel is on the line. This one's in Indianapolis. Hi, Rachel. How are you? I'm great. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? So it's awesome to speak with you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. The reason why I'm calling is my husband and I are in step two. We've made really good progress and paid off$78 ,942 worth of debt. Wow. Good for you. Good for you. That's consisted of medical, car, and student loans.

44:03My question is, is there ever a time in Baby Step 2 that it would be appropriate to cash flow like a life event or a once-in-a-lifetime experience? What would that be? So it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and Brian at the Sphere in August.

44:30Dave Ramsey:The Backstreet Boys. Yes. Their childhood. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel. There's any hope. You know Rachel's been twice. I think so, yes. Yeah. And it's so good. Oh, my gosh. And here's the thing. I'm like watching the videos, and my husband yells from the other room. Dave says no. Oh. I'm just going to see if Rachel's a hypocrite. That's all I'm going to say. Because if your husband calls and wants to buy a Mastercraft, I've got the same problem. Okay, a Mastercraft and Backstreet Boy tickets are very different price point wise. Let's just continue being curious. Rachel, how much debt do you all have left?

45:19So we have, I have it right here. We have just about$96 ,000 and I will admit that's student loans. I'm in health care and my husband is a teacher.

45:29Dave Ramsey:And your household income is what? I have an NDA with work, but we are able to put about$3 ,500 a month towards debt because I have a side hustle as adjunct faculty. Oh, nice. Okay. I'm sorry. Your household income? Oh, you can't say because you have an NDA? Is that what you mean? Yeah, I have a nondisclosure agreement. I work with the government. Oh. Okay. Nobody knows who you are, but okay. Anyway. Protect yourself. It's fine. They probably actually do know who you are, but anyway. Oh, man. So we're able to put like$3 ,500 a month towards that, and we're at probably about 25 months away from having that all cleared.

46:14Dave Ramsey:Yeah.

46:18Dave Ramsey:I went to the Eagles at the Sphere, which would be my version of Backstreet Boys because the chance of me seeing the Backstreet Boys is close to zero. But the Eagles at the Sphere was one of the best concert experiences of my life. So I can get there with you and Rachel on how difficult this is. We're kind of making fun of it a little bit. But it's also a very real possibility. It's a real cool experience. And it's worth every penny if you had the pennies. You don't. You're broke. You're$90 ,000 in debt. Yes. So I – I'm going to mute my mic. I just can't. She can't tell you no. She's going to make me do it.

46:57I'm kidding.

46:57Dave Ramsey:She can't do it. Ah, man. It would be inconsistent with what we teach. I know, I know. That's the bottom line. As much as we understand and grasp, and we also know you're not going to go bankrupt if you do it, and you're probably going to be okay if you do it, but it's inconsistent with what we teach because that loss of focus and that loss of, I give myself permission to take a minute off instead of staying on this. The way you got the$78 ,000 paid off in that short period of time was focused intensity. without any distractions. You put the blinders on and said nothing is as important as getting this debt clean.

47:33Dave Ramsey:And that level of focus created behavior change in your household, created sacrifice in your household, and got you the progress. And that's how we've taught and been able to coach people to be successful all these years in this to not get distracted with every shiny thing. And this one's particularly funny and fun because Rachel has actually done it twice. It heals your inner child until you. It is like the best. Oh, Jesus is not up there. It's the Backstreet Boys. For all of us millennials, it takes you back to like seventh grade. So, Rachel, I'm so sorry. Well, so does the Eagles, but my inner child didn't need it.

48:12Dave Ramsey:But my inner child died a long time ago. He's in there, Dave. He grew up. No, he's in there. He's in there. He's way down in there. But yeah, this is so fun, Rachel. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have to tell you the truth. And the truth is everything we teach says don't do it. Absolutely. Well, no, I really do appreciate it. And we listen to like the podcast and stuff when I'm like on my way to teach on the weekend. So thank you. You're fun and you're a great sport. You're working so hard. And you're doing a great job. And here's the thing. If you live like no one else, I promise you later there's going to be better things than this would have been.

48:49And I have on my prayer list that Britney Spears heals up as a human and she goes on tour. and that NSYNC, that Justin Timberlake goes NSYNC. Just for your generation. So we will get millennial concerts in the future, Rachel. I really do believe it. I'm praying for it.

49:02Dave Ramsey:Well, when they want money, they will, because all the ones from my generation are 85 years old, and they're all on stage jumping around still, because there's really good money in it right now. There is. And they keep releasing more dates. Yeah, I mean, Don Henley just keeps going like the Ever Ready Bunny. I don't know who he is. Eagles? Yeah. It's understandable. It's like the Eagles in the beach floor. Which makes for a fun thing because you actually, you know, you almost got Rachel on your side. But, yeah, we also have to step aside from all the giggling and the fun about it and say, while it is an incredible experience, I would not suggest it to someone in your situation.

49:38Dave Ramsey:If you do it, we'll still be friends. But I would not suggest it. That's a good point, Rachel. We would still be friends if you did it. There you go. That's a nice way of saying it. I just, you know, won't be mad at you. Just like we say, that's not a sin. It's not a salvation. It's not a sin. It's not wise. This is not a biblical construct. So stay focused, Rachel. Stay focused. The power of focus is hard to grasp in a culture that does not know how to focus. In a culture where people check their phones 2 ,500 times a day. And it's hard. And this is a lot of people's journeys. But they paid off 78.

50:14Dave Ramsey:Yeah, they made good progress. In two, a year and a half. Still got 90 to go. And then they still have 96. That's a long journey. So you guys, you're in the marathon. You've got it, Rachel. And I kind of think in talking to her that she was pretty mature about the consideration. No, she knows. I think she knows. I know. She was kind of having fun with it. It wasn't like a little spoiled brat. No, no, no, no, no, no. She's smart. She knows what she's doing. She's like a grown woman and stuff. Oh, man. I just hate that you kind of lost the argument to the husband, too, when he yells. From the other room.

50:45Dave Ramsey:Dave says you can't do it. Dave doesn't make the decisions at your house. He just gives you the guidance, and then you make the decisions at your house. But, yeah. Oh, Rachel. So sorry. So sorry. Yeah, I was on, when we started 1 ,000 years ago, I was on CBS early show every other Tuesday. And they got this couple for me to coach. Oh, no. And on the show, they revealed to me, without telling me ahead of time, that they had just come back from vacation. After I'd been coaching them for four months to get out of debt. Oh, geez. I made the woman cry on the air when I finished with it. She was crying.

51:22You're like, I can't believe it.

51:22Dave Ramsey:They went to break with this woman. You're like, I cannot believe you. I just completely ripped her the shirts. I believe you did. I believe that.

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53:26Dave Ramsey:One of the best things to do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. They'll advise you on the best moves to make for your situation, your small business. If you've had some big life changes in the past year, you bought a house, got married, had kids, got a divorce, whatever. ramsaysolutions.com slash tax pro will hook you up with one of the cpas or enrolled agents that are ramsay trusted ramsaysolutions.com slash tax pro to find tax people that are ramsay trusted to help you jennifer's in boston hi jennifer how are you hey i'm good this is so nerve-wracking i don't know how you guys do this every day we've gotten used to it how can we help okay um okay so me and my husband we had 146 ,000 dollars of student debt we've gotten it down to 65 ,000 so we've been kind of crushing it um but we do have like an inheritance um from my father's estate um we kind of went down a rabbit hole and we found out that each kid is probably going to get around$70 ,000 to$90 ,000.

54:37The house sold a few years ago, but my uncle is the executor, and he's just gone completely ghost, like nothing. In like a year and a half, he's sending me to the house.

54:48Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry, what do you mean ghost? He's not returning calls, or you can't find him, or what? Nothing. No, like text, email, calls. Did you go to his house? Zero. Well, we live in like different states. He's all the way across the country. Well, for$70 ,000, I'm going to go to his house. Yeah, I was talking to my husband about that. I'm like, is this like something we get like, I don't know, the authorities involved? Because it kind of like kills me that our debt could be gone tomorrow if I had like the estate. So you've called his phone how many times? Oh, gosh. A handful. I thought like a ton and ton because I'm like, oh, okay.

55:34He has a life. Like he has kids. But I'm starting to just get a little peeved. Wait a minute. So how many times have you called him?

55:43Dave Ramsey:Like three times? Over how long? I mean, since we've been getting serious about the debt, probably a year. Because my husband was in PA school and then I was in college. We weren't really thinking about the estate at all. And now we're paying down the debt. How long ago did your father die? In 2015. Okay, do you have a relationship of any kind with your uncle prior to this, good or bad? After my dad passed, that side of the family just, we kind of just dissipated. So if you never spoke to him again, but you got your$70 ,000, your life wouldn't change much. Right. So jack him up. Yeah, like call him a ton.

56:28Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And go, hey, I want my stinking money. 2015? That's 11 years to settle an estate. I'm getting ready to call the cops if I don't get a check. I'm calling the cops if you stole my money. You think he stole it? He might have stolen it. It's been 11 years. Oh, no. Well, here's some tea. I just have a little bit of a feeling that he's holding it because he thinks we're, like, too young to manage it. I've got a little bit of a feeling that I'm about to jack him up. yeah yeah see i'm 11 years when did the house sell though it's just why am i more pissed than you i know yeah and i think that's the problem i think i need a little kick in the butt so i'm like i'm just gonna call and just sit when did the house yeah when did the house sell jennifer how long ago a few years ago okay i want this stuff should be wrapped up in six months okay so he's 10 and a half years too late yes call him and call him and call him twice a day okay we're really wanting to move in august and i'm like we're not moving unless we're out of debt yeah so i'm like you need to leave that's irrelevant to this discussion okay whether you move or not depends on if you're out of debt and that depends on if you get out of debt with your money or you get some of this money that's due you you may never see this money But you need closure on this ridiculous estate situation.

57:50It's ridiculous. Yes, I agree. How many siblings do you have? I have three. And what are they saying? Well, a little bit of strange at the moment, not going to lie. Okay. Having a little bit of a family thing. Okay. All right.

58:03Dave Ramsey:So I'm going to let Uncle know that he's got 10 days to close out the estate and send me my money. and if he doesn't do that I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm getting ready to jack his world up I'm going to reach down his throat and pull him inside out no really 11 freaking years she's only called him three times in a year so maybe we try the calling thing yeah call him and say I want my money and then if he says okay then I'm going to call again if you want my money and then I'm going to call again and I'm going to go hey it's been 20 minutes where's my money this is 11 years I definitely, yes, Rachel's correct that I haven't pulled my foot on the gas at all, but now that we're going crazy with the debt, I'm like, okay.

58:47Dave Ramsey:Dave's taking you from zero to 100, but you need to go there. You need to go middle. Well, you need to be prepared to go to 100 in the next 30 days. 30 seconds. I'll do it as soon as I get off the phone. You have to call him immediately. You can start nice, and then progressively over the next 30 days, you go from nice to I don't care if you ever talk to me again, but I still want my money. Correct. Correct. This has gone on too long. Take it. It's gone on too long. And I think he spent the money. I think you're screwed. That's what you're going to find out. That's what I'm almost thinking. Isn't that illegal?

59:22That it's not even there.

59:23Dave Ramsey:Yeah. It's not legal at all. No, I said, isn't that illegal? Sure. Yeah. So what happens then? He's a fiduciary. It's a civil matter. It's not a theft. Oh, okay. Because it was never in her name. He's the executor of the estate. He did not function in his duties right, his fiduciary duties. So you could sue him. But suing broke people with no morals is usually a waste of time. So you're probably screwed because you sat on this for so long. But I'm going to go ahead and get psychological, emotional closure on this. And then decide what I'm going to do with the guy that stole my money. Now am I just going to forgive and walk away and forget it because I didn't follow up?

1:00:03Dave Ramsey:Or am I going to lean on it? Or has he got some assets and I'm going to tap him? I don't know. I mean, you've got to decide what you're going to do then. But I think you're going to find there's no money. That's what I think. And you bear part of the responsibility for that by letting this go on this long, by not managing the situation well. It's unhealthy for an estate to be open 11 years. It's not normal. Okay? He didn't do his job as the executor of the estate. And if he's sitting on the money, I'll give you a 10 % chance that's what it is, 90 % he spent that money. And he's got some whacked out weird family justification bullcrap in his mind for doing that.

1:00:42Dave Ramsey:But he still stole your money. I'll bet you. We'll see. We'll see. You can call us back and tell us later. Good luck. Yeah. So gang, when you are due, when you are the heir to an estate, you are not in charge of the estate. The executor executes, Thus, the word execute is in the word executor, executes the actual terms of the will. If the will states house to be sold, proceeds to be distributed to children, that has to happen in a reasonable period of time. Eleven years is ten years past reasonable. That's simple. Okay, that's an actual practical thing. And so as an heir, I, at the one-year mark, and periodically after six months, I'm going to be getting reports from the executor as to what the progress is and when I expect to see the payout that my dad left in his will for me.

1:01:44Dave Ramsey:And you're going to give me those reports as the executor, or I'm going to drag your butt before the judge, and he's going to make you give a report. because that is your fiduciary responsibility, your job, your trust job as the executor. You do not get to decide, oh, well, they're done with money, so I'm going to hold the money. That's not what the will said. The will said sell the house and distribute the money to the dumb people. That's what it said. And you have to do what the will said, even if it's uncomfortable, even if you don't agree with it. That's what you take on when you take on the job of executor.

1:02:20Dave Ramsey:And if you've ever been the executive of an estate, you will promise to never do it again. Because it's a royal pain in the butt. And most of the time, unless it's a huge estate, you don't get paid for this privilege.

1:02:59We'll see you next time.

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1:04:32Dave Ramsey:in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage philip and anita are with us hey guys how are you hi hey dave hey rachel welcome where do you guys live we're in atlanta georgia Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Congratulations. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off$88 ,100, and we cash flowed another$30 ,000 of Murphy expenses in the first 18 months of that. Oh, gosh. Wow. How long did it take you to do the 88? Two years and 10 months. Two years and 10 months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? We started at$135 ,000. We finished at$145 ,000 with the highest year with side hustles at$191 ,000.

1:05:18Dave Ramsey:Wow. Way to go, guys. What kind of debt was the$88 ,000? It was personal loans, credit cards. We had some IRS tax in there as well and a HVAC system. Wow. So very normal. Wow. Normal humans. Very cool. So what do you all do for a living? I'm a general manager for Big Box Retail. Then side hustle was DoorDash. Okay. Nice. And you work outside the home, Anita? Well, I'm a physical therapist. But when we moved to the USA, COVID started. So I stayed at home with my three children to help school them. That went on for a few years. And then we actually moved down to Atlanta in Georgia. and that was when I turned my hobbies, which is photography and dogs, into work, where I began my photography business and my dog boarding business.

1:06:12Dave Ramsey:Very good. Good for you. Good for you. So Australian? We're from the UK. The UK. I was going to say English. Okay, I'm sorry. Yes. English. I'm sorry. I can't catch the accents. I'm sorry. I just knew there was one. Okay. What part of the UK? Where were you? Devon. I'm from Devon and you can say? I'm from Devon. Fair enough. Okay. Close enough. Southwest. Yeah. Close enough. Down on the coast. Gotcha. Wonderful. Cool. Very cool. Oh, my gosh. Well, congratulations, you guys. So how did you run into this Ramsey stuff two years and ten months ago? Well, I listened to the Total Money Makeover audio book in 2015, but I, of course, knew better.

1:06:50So I didn't do anything about it. Didn't tell Anita anything about it. And then fast forward to October in 22. I was doing some yard work, lifting some trees, and my body had another idea. So I had to have some surgery. I was out of action for five weeks, and it nearly broke us financially. So after a week of Netflix and getting bored, I started listening to your book again. This time, I really heard you shouting and yelling at me. And after eight times, I was ready to kind of open up to Anita about what was happening financially. Wow. Oh, wow. So Anita, you didn't really have the full picture in general.

1:07:30No, we really didn't communicate very well with finances, and we communicated well otherwise, but I completely relied on him to manage the finances, and I didn't really know what was going on. And he was under a huge amount of stress, and it was impacting our marriage, but I didn't know what was causing the problem, why he was so stressed. but then he did open up to me once he started you know reading your books again and shared what his plans were and I you know I was surprised to find out how much debt we were in I had no idea but I was I took it all very level-headed surprisingly I didn't get upset and I just got totally on board with helping him.

1:08:19In fact, it really did help us communicate. And I feel like it saved our marriage, actually. So thank you. I mean, it has been an incredible journey, just the whole experience and following your plan, communicating better as a family and working together. So I'm really proud of him for getting on board and you guys for helping us do that.

1:08:44Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Wow. Well, way to go. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. Very well done. So you had this event that puts you flat on your back, and you're kind of forced to consume some things, and you say, okay, I'm going to do it this time. This time I heard it. This time I'm tired of living like this. I'm going to talk to Anita about it. We're going to work together. We're going to tear into this. What was the first big thing you did when you got in attack mode? I went out and started door dashing. You sold everything. We sold everything. That was number one. The kids really did think that they were next.

1:09:18Yeah, yeah. And then it was door dashing. About six months in, I actually lost my job, so I got laid off.

1:09:24Dave Ramsey:Oh. Yeah, but it was okay. I phoned Anita from the car park after the meeting. I literally went out door dashing, and I was actually earning, we were earning$1 ,500 a week door dashing. So that's what we did for a couple of months until I got the next position that I'm in now. Wow, never stopped. Just kept rolling. Yeah, we just went straight out. We were doing 80 hours a week. And Edie was doing 80 hours a week. Yeah, so then I started with my photography business, doing family photography, which actually didn't make most of the money. The money came from dog boarding. We do have dogs and we love animals.

1:10:01So that just seemed to come naturally to me.

1:10:03Dave Ramsey:I think you can make more being a daycare for dogs than for kids. Right. Well, these dogs stayed with us. They slept in our home. They were family-friendly dogs from local people. And yeah, it really did take off huge. And I think, you know, the people that let their dogs stay with us really saw how much we loved dogs. The kids loved it. At times we had, you know, in the teens, like 13 more dogs. Oh my goodness. Christmas time was hysterical. Yeah. The kids joined in as well. The eldest actually lost his room. So the boys had to cozy up. And we got a tenant for a couple of years as well. so we really went all in.

1:10:42Yeah, we went for it. Oh my gosh.

1:10:44Dave Ramsey:So now that you're free, was all that worth it? Oh my goodness, yes. I mean, if you're thinking about getting on board with the Ramsey, I would highly recommend it. I mean, it's changed our life completely and you won't imagine what you're capable of, how hard you can push yourself. Knowing that the harder you push, the faster you can achieve your goals. Amen. That's it right there. I feel like our children have just learned so much from this experience. That's what I was going to ask is some people are cautious when they have kids in the home to sacrifice lifestyle to get out of debt and do this because they're like, oh, I don't want my kids to feel like that, you know, that our life is changing for the worst.

1:11:25They see it as the worst. But what you just framed up is actually it's the best thing for them to see. It's taught them resilience and to not, you know, to be grateful for everything that they have. it's just been to see them to grow as little humans has just been a blessing to see how strong they've become because of this and you know to go into the shops they don't want everything they see they know that you know we have to compromise that you know they've done they've done a great job yeah now eldest he's 14 he's um he's been inspired by it as well so he's watched fpu he's done that with us as a course and he's now got his own business that he started last year and he's doing really well with that, doing what you're doing, Dave, which is lawns and jet washing driveways.

1:12:11So he's really jumping on board. Yeah. Wow, good.

1:12:13Dave Ramsey:Well, yeah, front row seat to watching mom and dad change their lives. You guys are heroes. So you've changed your whole family tree with your actions as well as with the arithmetic. So absolutely amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Very well done. What a great, great, inspiring couple. Amazing. Very, very cool. All right, let's bring the kiddos up and introduce them. their names and ages. Come on up, guys. What are their names and ages? So this is Bethany. Bethany's eight years old. So beautiful. Isaac. Isaac is 10 years old. And Ewan is 14 years old. All right. Very cool. All right. It's Phillip and Anita.

1:12:54Dave Ramsey:Ewan, or E... Say it again? Ewan. Ewan. Yeah, Ewan, Isaac, and Bethany from Atlanta, Georgia. $88 ,000 paid off in two years and 10 months, making$135 ,000 to$145 ,000 and selling everything in sight. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah.

1:13:19Dave Ramsey:Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo. I love it. Man, they are inspiring. That is so fun. I mean, just scorched earth for two years. Man, they did it. They just did it. And, you know, her, it's so beautifully said that, you know, the more you turn it up, the more you turn up the heat, the faster you get out. You're going, yep.

1:14:02We'll be right back.

1:14:29Dave Ramsey:Brought to you by Y-Refi. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Y-Refi helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can get back on the baby steps and move forward. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Nicole in Arkansas. all. She said, I'm working two jobs to pay off debt, but it feels like my progress is slowing with the rising gas prices because of the war, increasing grocery costs and higher interest rates. How can I maintain momentum and paying off my debt with all of this going on?

1:15:12Well, it's setting the lifestyle standard. I mean, there's some things that you can control, some things that you can't. And so to have gas in your car, you're going to have to have, which means if it is a little bit more expensive, then you got to change the price point of your budget to say it's there. So what do I have to make up for in other places that I can sacrifice and or make more money? But it shouldn't be that significant of a—

1:15:38Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you're just wrong, Nicole. You're worrying about stuff that is not in existence. You've been watching the news, okay? There's no higher interest rates. Well, you've been getting out of debt. Nothing, no debt that you have. The interest rate has not gone up a penny on any of it. Yeah, grocery store costs have been consistent. I mean, the gas thing is a thing. Your gas might be costing you$10 more a month this month. The Iraqi bombing has been going on for three weeks. Iran. Iran, Iranian bombing, okay? Three weeks. And gas has gone up 40 cents a gallon. It's$10. So you don't have a problem at$10.

1:16:19Dave Ramsey:and you don't have higher interest rates and your grocery costs have not gone up in the last three weeks. So none of that is true. So you're creating a narrative, a drama in your head because you're tired, because you've been working all the time. It feels like my progress is slowing. No, it's not. Unless you did something else to cause it to slow. Slowing because of the war. No. Your progress is not slowing because of the war. Increasing grocery costs, no, not substantially, not in the past five weeks. No big difference. And no interest rates on your debt have not gone up a penny. Not a penny.

1:17:02Dave Ramsey:So I don't know where – that's all stuff that somebody told you that you work with that's in Debbie Downer or you're watching the news, which is the same thing as Debbie Downer. so how you maintain momentum is you ignore Debbie Downer and you kick the butt of the debt by working like a crazy person and selling everything in sight and eating beans and rice, rice and beans. The cost of beans and rice has not gone up.

1:17:30Dave Ramsey:And so, but, but, but what is, what does happen, Nicole, honestly, that is valid. and I will defend you on this after taking you to task on the other, is you do get tired. It gets old. Yeah, and if it's been a two-year journey for her, she is feeling, you know what I mean? Working your butt off gets old. It gets old. It's hard. Getting out of debt is hard. It's just not as hard as spending your entire life being average, being mediocre, Joker, constantly living from paycheck to paycheck for your whole freaking life having to work an extra job because you never get out of debt, because you never pay a price to push the rock over the hill.

1:18:13Dave Ramsey:But I will sympathize with you, empathize with you that you do get tired. And it does get – I get sick and tired of this. and all I would encourage you to do is just take that and turn it into a righteous anger to push the paddle even harder to the floor to get out that much faster like the debt-free screamer just said, like Anita just said on that debt-free scream and use it as anger and also as anger to never go back and I'm not going to ever be the person I used to be. I'm going to be transformed while I get out of debt as well because actually what ends up happening to these people you guys listening that have never done it, these people that go through these extreme journeys to get out of debt, they are changed more than their finances are changed.

1:19:02Dave Ramsey:And they can never become the same person again because they're not the same person they used to be. Yeah, because the strength of doing something that you think is impossible, right? Where they have 13 dogs living with them at Christmas and they're working extra, they're door dashing, a thousand bucks a week. They're making$4 ,000 a week door dashing is what they said on that. I mean, like that feels, impossible for people. I mean, it's just like, there's no way I could do that. And when you do something you don't think you can do, the resilience on the back end comes out and then you get to apply that to every area of your life.

1:19:31Like it just, there's a level of strength there when you do what feels like the impossible.

1:19:35Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Once you've stretched to a certain point, you can never return to the same shape. It's not possible. And so, yeah, that's how this goes. Wow. Wow. So we'll be praying for your strength, kiddo. But do not get distracted by mythology from your Debbie Downer friends or mythology from the news. Because your gas tank is not that much more expensive in the last three weeks. And if it is, it won't be for long. And your interest rates have not changed a thing. Unless you went and borrowed money in the last three weeks, you might have found a higher interest rate that way. but the interest rates on everything you had have not changed your credit card rates are not moved a penny not moved up or down they never move up or down they always are screwing you you know your car is a fixed rate if you have a car debt your your medical bills are a fixed rate they're not charging you an interest rate they're just trying to get their money you know whatever it is the interest rates are all the same nothing has changed in the you know because nothing in your life has changed.

1:20:42Dave Ramsey:That's my point. Now, there may be some things in the marketplace have moved a little bit here or there, but guys, you really can't sit and watch the news and be anything but negative. They exist for fear porn. Their whole job is to keep you upset. So you keep watching and you stay in the Fox news or the CNN news loop. And you know, your particular side of the aisle is stimulated by anger at the other side of the aisle. And, you know, that's all they do all day long. And we're on Fox all the time. We know those guys. We're not mad at them. Most of those guys are friends of ours. But what they do all day long, the people that write those scripts that they read in those teleprompters, you know, it's got to – you do not have higher interest rates.

1:21:28Dave Ramsey:You just don't. It's that simple. Jane is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Jane. How are you? Oh, I'm fine, Dave. Thank you very much for taking my call. Sure. My question concerns cars, cars and a mortgage. My husband's 79. I'm 69. We currently have a, we've done it all. We've gotten grandma's car, grandpa's car. You know, we bought new cars. We've been married 48 years. We bought new cars, seen them to the end. You know, anytime we bought a new car, had them, of course, had a payment. And once it was done, then we saw it to the end. So currently we got grandma's 2003 vehicle Sabre. And then we have a 2006 Explorer that my husband drives.

1:22:16And then we're snowbirds. So here in Florida, we have a Siam. And because we're snowbirds, I tend to go north more often than he does. I'm getting nervous. Okay. It's like we got these old cars, you know, and he's pretty good. He's good. He knew stuff. He said, now a car will be fine. Before I run out of time, ask your question, Jane. Okay. Is it ever a good idea? I went and got a lease.

1:22:42Dave Ramsey:No, you didn't. Yes. Listen, I kind of got strong arms, but it's a very nice car. I'm sure it is. I mean, I could be easily impressed because I got old cars. So, anyway. What do you want me to do about it? You got a lease. Tell me. Tell me. It's a bad idea. My plan. My plan is to give up the lease in September. It's done. Turn it in. Good. Okay. Because we gave our son money for some land, we still have a mortgage. So I'm thinking, okay, we'll put that money toward, drive the old cars, put the money toward the mortgage, and then I turn 70 this year. I don't mind you getting a nicer car. It sounds like you've got the money.

1:23:31Dave Ramsey:Just pay cash for it. That's simple. Yeah, and if the two old cars are fine, then what you're saying, putting it toward the mortgage? You're 70 years old. You're driving across the country. You need a better car than an 06. Yeah, I'm fine with that, but pay cash for it. And quit trying to trick the system. Sounds like you've been tricking it for a long time, and it hasn't worked. Just write a check. Buy yourself a car. And be careful what car you buy, and buy something that's very reasonable and that gets the job done where you feel safe. But don't lease stuff, no.

1:24:31Dave Ramsey:welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 james is in indianapolis hi james how are you hello hey i'm doing fine thanks for taking my call and And hello to Rachel and to Mr. Ramsey. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate all the information you've given throughout the years. Thank you, sir. And I've got a little problem, and I just need you to let me know the direction you would take with this. You got it. Okay, I've got two sons. I'm 70. My wife is 70.

1:25:14She's in great health. I have cancer, but I'm in remission at this time, so I'm good. but you know time's going to be most likely shorter for me than her because her mom's in her 90s and her family has that longevity but she's doing great great caregiver love that lady but that i have two sons 142 138 and we're going to have about a two million dollar inheritance for then the 38 the 42 year old is great he's got his wife under control does things as he would expect people to do you know pays his bills does this and the other saves his money and then uh i've got my other son he's not very good with money and he's got triplets he's divorced two years now and he's been living with us for two years and that was to get him back on his feet plus they were two when he got divorced and a single dad, he gets the kids half time.

1:26:17So he's not in a position, you know, how do you take care of two girls if you're a single dad and you're working and he is working and that's the, that's the plus side of it. However, he, he's went through the equity on the home they sold, which was about$60 ,000. I didn't know he had done that. And then we gave him about$30 ,000 for my mom's estate. We were dividing it in thirds between my wife, myself, and my two boys. And he went through that. And I'm sure it's a gambling issue. I can't verify that because he's never said, but there's no physical evidence of spending$150 ,000, you know, on because he spent all his wages as well during that time, and he has about$4 ,000 in the bank after living with us for two years.

1:27:12The only thing he pays for is daycare, and it is expensive. It's$250 a week for these three girls, and he pays for that. And we've set aside that$250 when he moves out. will pay his rent. But at any rate, I just want to know the inheritance piece of it. What do we do?

1:27:42Dave Ramsey:Well, I don't think you're blessing him if you leave him a million dollars. No, and I don't want to leave it all at once either. Well, I mean, you're going to when you die. That's going to be, you know, he's not been blessed by anything else. And so money magnifies the good parts of our life and the bad parts of our life. And so far, money that he's gotten has magnified the bad parts. Absolutely has. Yeah. So why is he still living with you? Because he only has$4 ,000 in the bank, and he's got these triplets, and he gets them half-time, and he can't put a roof over his head at this point. Why?

1:28:24Dave Ramsey:What's he make? He makes$22 an hour, which next summer, or this coming summer, he may get to$25. And then he has a chance of getting to$35, but that's going to be two or three years down there. Now, he won't. We've given him the get out, you know, get out when you're no longer than January of next year. Why does it say on my screen that he's under house arrest? What does that mean? He has a DUI, and he has a braids foot on his ankle, so he goes to work, comes back here. I don't have to worry about him spending money because— But we still don't know where all his money is going. You know what? He's spending money somewhere.

1:29:08Well, he was spending it on online gambling, of course.

1:29:12Dave Ramsey:Yeah. All right, so what would I do—you asked me early in the conversation—what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? My son's about the same age. okay what i would do is the conditions for you to continue to live here are that you start being responsible as a man and that means you've got to stop spending everything you make on online gambling so if you gamble one more time online you have to leave our home right and so i'm not i'm not going to support you destroying your own life i'm not going to buy you heroin when you're a heroin addict. I'm not going to give you shelter while you're misbehaving.

1:29:50Dave Ramsey:I'm not blessing you. I'm enabling you when I do that. And I love you too much to participate willingly or unwillingly in your destruction. And to make sure that that's not happening, because I mean, you can't really control that if he has his own money. So I would be, I would ask for a shared account with him for a second. Like, I mean, there needs to be some behavior changes. I'm going to have some visibility into his internet access and treat him like he's an addict. Treat him like he was an addict because he's an addict. If he's unwilling to do that, then he needs to move out and figure out his own way.

1:30:25Dave Ramsey:And, um, that's your wife doesn't want him to do that, but your wife is wrong. He needs to be kicked out. It's the best thing that'll happen to him because the path that he's on is a path of destruction and it's not a loving act to assist in an act of destruction. It's called enabling. Enablers are nice people. They're sweet people, but they're not helpful people. They think they're helping, but they're not helping. And so when I do things like this or when you do things like this, we're enablers. And so I would stop that. Then the second part of it is, as far as the estate goes, I would leave his portion into a trust that he has no access to until he proves to the trustee that he's cleaned up his life and he's become responsible because I'm not leaving a million dollars to a gambling addict.

1:31:12Dave Ramsey:DraftKings is going to get it all. And I don't want to leave a million dollars to DraftKings. I didn't work all my life to do that. And it's not a blessing to the person that's being victimized by DraftKings or whoever else, you know, whatever else. I mean, we're seeing the sports gambling. It's just an epidemic among men under 40 years old. And it's just destroying men left and right and families left and right. It's evil. And everybody thinks it's cute to parlay. I got your parlay. Be broke. That's what you're parlaying. So, no, I'm not going to participate in that. And I'm disgusted with it.

1:31:53Dave Ramsey:I'm disgusted that he's been victimized by it. He's allowed himself to be victimized by it. But if he ends up, though, for real, not being able to support himself, then the girls end up with the mom full-time custody, I would assume. Well, and, you know, grandma and grandpa are standing there ready to help with the triplets. With the girls, yes. I was going to say. If when you're keeping the kids, if you want to bring them over, I'll help you keep the kids on your days on, you know, because you've got two little girls. That's what grandma's doing right now. Yeah. How does a single dad deal with two little girls?

1:32:22Dave Ramsey:Grandma's helping. That's what's happening. So just keep doing that. I'll help you and help you with the kids. But you can't live here. I'm not going to support you. and I'm not going to give you money and I'm not going to give you money until you prove yourself to where the money is going to be a blessing to you. It's not a punishment. It's I don't want to cause your ruin. You're on a path towards ruining your life. And I don't want to add fuel to that fire.

1:33:22Dave Ramsey:Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:34:09Dave Ramsey:Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, but you couldn't get through, head on over to the website and use our tool, Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is a free AI tool that's built and trained on proven principles. Like we dumped years and years and years of recalls from this show into it. All the books I've written into it. All the Financial Peace University lessons are into it. All the books Rachel wrote are into it. And based on that, it'll give you an answer. So AI, when it has a good data set, can give you really good, correct answers.

1:34:47Dave Ramsey:And obviously, Ask Ramsey is going to give you a Ramsey answer. You'll get an answer the same way as if we did it right here on the show. Ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jackie is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Jackie. How are you? Hi. I am good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Wow. I can't believe I'm speaking to you. This is so cool. Okay. Okay. So my question is a relational question, and I'm hoping to get a third-party objective viewpoint from you guys. So my dear fiancé has some very frugal tendencies that border on being cheap, and I'm wondering if this means we are incompatible or if it should cause me to reassess our relationship.

1:35:37Oh, man. Okay. So give me a couple of examples of what you consider cheap. Oh, gosh. Okay. Borderline crazy. Or borderline crazy. Okay. So it can be something small. Like if I call him to say like, hey, can you pick up some avocados on the way home? I can hear him like his brain is short circuiting on the other end trying to think of like the cheapest grocery store to get avocados. So it can be something small like that. Or just bigger stuff like paying for dates and groceries. And so, yeah.

1:36:11Dave Ramsey:You mean he wants you to pay for dates? Yes. I should probably give you a little more context, though. So he and I are engaged, and we are living together. Please don't yell at me, Dave. And we also have a two-year-old son together. So we've gone through a lot in our relationship. Early on, yes, he still pays for dates. I want to give him a say. Well, he's not a date anymore. He's a shack up, so it's a completely different thing. Yeah. I mean, he's the father. He's the baby daddy now. I mean, come on. So, yeah. I think it's too late to decide if you're going to marry the guy. I think you've already decided.

1:36:55Dave Ramsey:You set your entire life up as if you're married already. oh i agree i think that's probably like the root cause of some of our fight um i would say that uh early on like one of our disagreements was on living together i wanted to wait until we were married until we lived together so why aren't you married well i i wanted to be early on, but he wanted to take things slow. But at the same time, he wanted to live together. I agree. It's not exactly slow. That's kind of where I agree. He, taking things slow was basically like not marrying me, but he still wanted to live together. And this is, this is where like the frugal part comes up because I think our like framework for making decisions is very different.

1:37:46it seems like the only thing he can make a decision around is saving money. So like we had a big disagreement on living together. For me, I wanted to be married first and try to like do things back in the correct order. But for him, it all revolved around saving money and like the practical side of it. And so like that kind of created a big conflict there. Yeah, which that would feel like he is choosing, quote unquote, financial security or whatever he wants over you, who's the mother of his child. Yeah. Yeah. And so we did actually live separately because I needed that. And so by the time he proposed after that, he then wanted to move in together.

1:38:37and I felt like we just got to an impasse in our relationship where it was like someone has to cave here and so I did and I allowed him to move in but to be honest I feel like that's like the root of our conflict and so to your point Dave like why aren't we married I kind of agree with you but I think like the way he went about it made me hesitant on moving forward with marriage because it felt like we were just making the decision.

1:39:04Dave Ramsey:Okay, so I guess there's three options, right? You get married. Yep. You don't get married and stay shacked up in this exact situation. Or you split up. Yeah. Those are the three options. And I feel like there's... And so I don't know how not getting married and staying in this situation solves your concern of him being cheap. Mm-hmm. So if you decide he's too cheap to marry, this is too dysfunctional for her to marry, then you're saying you're splitting up. Mm-hmm. But I think it goes beyond that for you, Jackie. I don't think it's just that you think he's cheap. I think there's been other red flags in what he prioritizes.

1:39:54You don't feel chosen ever in this. He wanted to wait, but then he gets you still, even though he doesn't need the commitment. I mean, it's just, it feels like he's getting, he's choosing a lot of what he's wanting. Yeah. And it doesn't, and it's not you at the end of the day, right? It's financial security. It's, well, I want to be in a relationship, but I don't want to commit to marriage. You know, it's all of that. So I think a lot of, I would think some of that's brewing, even if it's subconscious of like, am I going to be chosen at all in this over his nitpickiness on finances?

1:40:31Dave Ramsey:This is way beyond I've accomplished. Yeah, I think this is, I do. So before you, I mean, before you walk down an aisle and commit yourself to him long term, I mean, you kind of already have, you guys have a kid together, so he's going to be part of your life forever. But before you guys get married, I would sit down with a great therapist, counselor, and really be working on something. Because, again, it's coming out like money, but always there's a root of what's going on underneath. And getting to that point of what's causing some of this conflict in you is going to be really important for you guys, which I pray is a wonderful, flourishing marriage ahead of you, right?

1:41:10I want you guys to win.

1:41:12Dave Ramsey:Can he grow past this? Yes. But basically at the root of this is selfishness. This guy's selfish. It's what he gets and what he wants and what it's about him, which means that he's not a great man right now. Can he become a great man? Yeah, sure. But it's going to require some growth on his part, and it's probably going to require you doing something you've never done before, and that's drawing a line in the sand and demanding it. Yeah. And so you guys are going to sit down with a good counselor and begin doing some hard work, both of you. And he's going to have to start saying, oh, my job here is to take care of this wonderful woman named Jackie and this baby I made with her and quit acting like a twerp over avocados.

1:41:57Dave Ramsey:That's my job. I have a new job. It's called manhood. It's serving. Not what you can get, what you can give. And by the way, the odd thing is that happiness is in there. You find happiness when you learn how to serve Selfishness seldom leads to happiness Doesn't lead to joy Selfish people are seldom joyful people They look like they were weaned on a pickle And so, you know, that's the good news for him He's got that as a possibility, a choice that he can make here But if you, you know, one of the things we talk about at Ramsey in leadership And we teach this to people in companies on leadership You get what you tolerate and in this relationship you've been tolerating a lot and so you're getting what you've tolerated and so my encouragement lovingly to you is to help him by not tolerating him anymore at this level and saying we're going to get some help because i feel like you're here for what you can get rather than what you can give and i'm tired of being the only one here giving and so We're going to get some therapy, and we're going to get in a good church, and we're going to get plugged in, and we're going to move down the aisle in a proper way as a man and a woman, not a little boy and his needs.

1:43:35Thank you.

1:44:02When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90 % of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget. It also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

1:44:40It's the same advice that you would get if you called a show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

1:45:07Dave Ramsey:In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jeff and Krista are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing well. Welcome. Where do you all live? Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $210 ,000. Whoa! Oh, my gosh. And how long did this take? 17 years. Okay, that'll work. I love it. And your range of income during that time? We started at$60 ,000 and we ended at$110 ,000. Wow. What do you all do for a living? I'm a college professor at a small Christian university in Oklahoma. And I am a minister at a, I like to say, a healthy church of 65.

1:45:48Dave Ramsey:Okay. That's great. I'll go with that. I like it. Oh, how wonderful. I like it. What was the$210 ,000? Student loan, car debt, and the house. You paid off your house! Oh, it's done. Looking at weirdos. Oh, my gosh. How does it feel to be weird? It's pretty amazing. We paid it off on our anniversary this last year. How long have you been married?

1:46:13Dave Ramsey:28, 7? What are we at? We're at 7. 7 and a half. 27 and a half. Maybe 28 if he figures this out. We're working on 28. We are. You're 28. All right. Way to go, you guys. Just tearing up. So 10 years into the marriage, that's 17 years ago, you looked up and said, we're normal. This sucks. How did you get introduced to this whole Ramsey thing? Well, initially it was through a church. They were doing FPU, and we kind of went through it, watched the videos. I was looking at your timeline over there. It was like the six-month long one or whatever it was. And we didn't do any of that stuff for a number of years.

1:46:52Dave Ramsey:It sounded pretty good. But as you say, I'm probably the one that held it back. I'm more of this free spirit. She's the kind of nerd of the family. But we kind of got into our marriage and realized that we probably hadn't been taught very well on these kind of things. And I think the big thing was we were moving for jobs and ministry. And we went to sell a house in about 2010. And the house that would be 2008, 2009 was worth about$30 ,000 less than we had borrowed on it at that point. and all of the stress that came with that, that we decided we needed to get out of all that anxiety. Yeah. And for us, I think, you know, when you say 17 years, it doesn't sound impressive.

1:47:35But I think what's really cool is all the things we cash flowed while we did that. So the Lord just asked us to do a whole lot of things and have a list. Okay. So we have adopted six kids. Whoa. Oh, my gosh. Four of them are international adoptions.

1:47:49Dave Ramsey:That was cheap. Yeah, right. Exactly. We have our three oldest kids have graduated college. Well, the one's going to graduate this year. Debt-free. Wow. Beautiful family. The four younger ones are in private school, which we felt very strongly we needed to do for several reasons. All six of the oldest kids have had 401 Dave matching cars. Wow. We've had several cars that we've purchased and sold through that time as well. We have a mission organization called Mission 1010 in Ethiopia that we were on the founding board for. And I go yearly for mission trips to Ethiopia. That's where you did the adoptions?

1:48:28Dave Ramsey:Yes, it is. Some of them are, and then some of them were domestically here. Some of them were domestic, yeah. You adopted how many? Eight or six? Six. Six, wow. And so we were trying to count up on our way here. The number of health surgery incidents. I think we've had 10 surgeries in our family in the past 17 years. Well, yeah, that's logical. Yeah. And every single appliance in our house has been replaced at least once. One summer, we replaced both of our heat and air units. So that was eight grand just right there. And your cash flow and all this. Right. Right. Yes. And you're a professor of what?

1:49:02Dave Ramsey:What do you teach? I'm a professor of mathematics. Mathematics. Yeah. And in fact, I teach a unit in our, we call it contemporary mathematics on financial math at the very end. And we talk about this and we talk about Murphy's law and about all the things that can go wrong with purchasing a home before you're ready for it. And I mentioned probability and statistics. Yeah. And I mentioned about our AC units that one summer. And I mentioned about, you know, the surgeries that show up that you're not expecting and all the things that can happen when you're just not ready to buy a house and how buying a house is really not a good idea.

1:49:34Dave Ramsey:So now you've gone through all of this and you're a hundred percent debt free. Yes, sir. How does that feel? It's amazing. It's amazing. I was over there and I think it was a John Delaney book that says building an anxious life. A non-anxious life, yeah. A non-anxious life. And when you're, you know, raising adopted kids and foster kids, it's nice not to have the anxiety of finances when you're doing all of that. That's enough. That just kind of resonated with me. Just the anxiety level just drops amazing when you don't have to worry about just car payments, much less, you know, home payments.

1:50:09Yeah. The first month that we didn't have a house payment, we got to the point where I would have normally checked to make sure that there was enough money at the right timing in the account, you know, and so forth. And I thought, oh, I need to check that. And I thought, no, I don't. I don't need to check that. It's all in there. Exciting, yeah. Oh, my gosh. That is so funny. Y 'all are amazing people. I mean, not only to do this journey, but what you've done. Yeah, you've given your lives away.

1:50:31Dave Ramsey:I mean, 100%. 100%. Amazing. I think it's honestly what you do and what, I mean, it's just biblical. We talk about, you guys talk about that all the time. as a minister, I just preach all the time that the church needs to preach this stuff. Just the effectiveness of a debt-free church, I just can't imagine what it would be like. And the more that we get on board with that, I just can't imagine what God would do if we were good stewards of our finances. Yeah, yeah. It changes everything. And here you are with your house paid for and six adoptions. Oh my gosh. Pretty incredible. That's a long journey, and there's a lot of claw and a lot of dirt under the fingernails to get that done.

1:51:12Dave Ramsey:That's amazing. It was one of those things like you want to go faster, but when you're trying to manage all the other things that the Lord's asking you to do at the same time, it just wasn't in the cards. Yeah, you talk about the hustle sometimes. Sometimes it's just realizing you can live with a lot less than you think you can. Yeah. So along the way, Jeff actually had been working in corporate America as well in IT, and he took a significant pay cut to become a pastor. And I remember our oldest son saying after that had happened that he didn't feel like there was a pay cut. He didn't feel it.

1:51:42And I think that's pretty incredible because he should have felt that it was significant. Yes. But you guys were living so below your means to work on this journey. Correct. And for other things. Yeah. Exactly. Y 'all are amazing.

1:51:55Dave Ramsey:Well done, you guys. Good job. When someone asks what the key to getting out of debt is, house and everything, while living a life that's this full, What do you tell them the key is? Budgeting, I think. Making sure that you've got all the things taken care of. Yeah, I would say diligence. And I think one of the key things is find some fun. Yeah. Right? It can't be at all. And so there's less expensive ways. I mean, we still go on ski trips. We still go to the lake. We still do those kind of things. And so I think having fun in the middle of it is still necessary, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well done, you guys.

1:52:35Dave Ramsey:All right, bring the kiddos up and introduce them. Some of them are here anyway. Yeah. So this is Jewel, and she's 12. Bouset is 18. Kimberly is 17. Eli is 18. And Abigail is 21. All right. Very cool. You'll have a bunch leaving the house soon. The ages, yeah. Getting close, yeah. Yes. Yeah, that's a different praise note. Just kidding. Beautiful family, guys. Payroll's going down. Well, congratulations. We're proud of you guys. You're heroes. What you've chosen to do with your lives and give your lives away. And in the process, still manage to set yourself free. Very, very well done. A lot of diligence.

1:53:17Dave Ramsey:Very heroic. A lot of pushing. All right. Jeff and Krista and the gang. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. $210 ,000 paid off. House and everything. 17 years. Get this. making 60 to a high of 110. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

1:53:46Dave Ramsey:That's how it's done. Well, we sometimes hear from people negatively that the Ramsey stuff does not work. God's ways of handling money does not work for large families. And then occasionally we get a super large family standing on the debt-free stage with tears running down their face saying it does work. We're free. House and everything, baby. Perseverance. I love it. Incredible.

1:54:30Thank you.

1:54:58Dave Ramsey:It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey Trusted Pros can book up fast. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro.

1:55:54Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 11, 14, where there is no guidance, a people fall. But in an abundance of counselors, there is safety. Brian Tracy said, failure is a prerequisite for great success. If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure. That's good. Barry is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Barry. How are you? Well, and you. And thank you, Mr. Ramsey and staff, for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I'm wondering. I have a small account in State Teachers Retirement System. It's very small, maybe$20 ,000 or$25 ,000. And I've been, since my almost full retirement now at 67, I'd heard on the Internet that you could use something called an IUL, which is tax-free.

1:56:41And I know STRS does pretty good with, you know, a percentage that they earn. But I've heard that there's two ways to set up an IUL. One is so that it pays a lot at your desk. And the other one is so that you can earn interest without taxation. So I don't trust the Internet because I don't know where they're coming from. But I trust you because I know where your power comes from. So I call for advice.

1:57:06Dave Ramsey:Well, the IUL is an indexed universal life. and in your case it would be what's called a single premium, which means you pay$20 ,000 up front. They would take their commissions out of that and they would put the rest of it into what's called cash value. The cash value earnings are taxable unless you borrow against your cash value. That's the only way that you can actually get your money out is to borrow and pay interest, borrow your money out and pay interest. But the earnings on IUL are not tax-free. That's not true. Is there any way – thank you for telling me that. Is there any way to roll that over into an IUL?

1:57:48Dave Ramsey:No, I would not use an IUL because the fees are so stinking high, and when you die, your money's gone. So instead, I would just use something – if you want to lower your taxes on the$20 ,000 and you're not going to use the income off of the$20 ,000 today. Do you want it to create income today? Yeah, I thought from what I heard on the Internet, again, you never know, I thought that you could actually earn interest and that it was not taxed. Well, you have to borrow the money and pay interest on your own money for it to be not taxable because borrowed money is never taxable. but if you actually just took the earnings straight off of the index universal then yes that is a taxable event so um but but the uh there but they they couch it that way because it's a sales technique on it it's a it's a uh it's a twisted version of an old product that was simply called whole life life insurance that's all it is it's a it's a newer version of screwing you so no i would not put a dime in it.

1:58:56Dave Ramsey:I would stay completely away from it. And what I have done instead is a taxable event. But if you want something that will grow without any taxes while it grows, you can use what's called a low turnover mutual fund, which means a mutual fund that they don't sell the stocks inside of it very often. And so as it grows in value, since it's just like a single stock that goes up in value, you don't pay tax on it until you sell it. And so if you buy a share of stock and it's$50 a share goes to$70 a share, you don't pay taxes on that gain until you sell it. And the same is true in a low turnover mutual fund.

1:59:37Dave Ramsey:Now, if you take the money out of there in a monthly income, you're going to pay taxes on it. And I don't know of a tax-free thing except a tax-free muni bond a municipal bond which you could buy a muni bond fund if you wanted tax-free income but go ahead and spoiler alert it's about two percent rate of return and so crummy rate of return so i would rather make 10 or 12 and pay some taxes and net out 10 or 12 um or net out eight or 10 you know out of tax after tax and so that's what i have chosen to do i haven't strained to get to tax-free income. Now, I've got a lot of tax-deferred growth because I own real estate, and as it goes up in value, it doesn't get taxed, and I own these low turnover mutual funds, and as it goes up, it doesn't get taxed until I cash out of it, and then it creates a taxable event called a capital gain.

2:00:34Dave Ramsey:But no, I would stay away from universal indexed life, and you're correct to be suspicious of anything on the internet because it's all twisted and turned and it's a barrel of fishhooks. Yeah, that's one of the things that you see is people taking out a whole life policy and living off that money because life insurance should be while you're alive and you're living off that money. The only way you're living off of it's borrowed. It's when you're borrowed. You're borrowing your own money. So you could take that same block of money and put it in a CD and have that bank loan you money and that's not taxable because it's borrowed money.

2:01:09Dave Ramsey:Yeah. It's the exact same thing. So if you want to do something very similar but has less fees, just put your money in a CD. And then borrow for it. And then use that as collateral and borrow against the CD. And, of course, we're not going to tell you to do that either. That's dumb. But it's the exact same principle. Yes. And then when you die, they're going to repay the loan with the CD. And so there's nothing there. It's gone. Poof. Just like that. And the same thing is true with the universal. Same thing. So, you know, but, you know, it's always been humorous to me that these guys in the cash value life insurance world, it's tax free.

2:01:46Dave Ramsey:Borrowed money is never taxable, doofus. Of course it's tax free. You know, I mean, these guys, these TikTok guys are just, they're cute because they're like an old, it's like a new version of an old scam. Bailey is in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Bailey. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? um so i had a a question about so i can just give you the rundown so my wife and i own a business and we make custom hats for a living out of our own laundry room i'm 23 i'm still in school um i got i got married in 2023 we had our first child in 2024 and now we have another son on the way.

2:02:35Good for you. And how much you're making on the hat business, dude? So we just started up in 2024.

2:02:42Dave Ramsey:I'm at about 40 grand that is in my pocket this year. So far. In profit or in gross revenues? In profit. That's after you bought the hats and paid for them? Right. Yes. Good for you. And you did that in three months? So you're making$10 ,000 a month on hats? No, I'm sorry. I meant to say last year. This year we... Oh, so in one year you made$40 ,000 with your side hustle out of the laundry room. Yes. That's awesome, man. And you're how old? 24? 23. How do you make it your day job? So I was working for a guy that he was... He worked at a... He owned a print shop and... Do you have a day job? Oh, no.

2:03:31Dave Ramsey:I do not have a day job. Oh, so your only job is hats out of the laundry room? Yes. Good for you. Wow. Okay. How can I help for a run out of time? So I actually have an opportunity to purchase another printing business that would allow me to expand my business. He's in a brick and mortar, but that is separate from the business. I would not do that. You have a good thing going. Why are you dumbing it down and getting into a business is dying. Your hat business is blowing up. Printing business is tough right now. Well, so he's kind of doing exactly what I'm doing, but he's doing screen printing.

2:04:15I'm doing hats.

2:04:17Dave Ramsey:Yeah, but you don't have all the overhead. Right. I don't. Why would you want overhead? Well, the only purpose is for the location that the building is in. It's a great location. Why do you need a location? Your laundry room's working great. Right, for sure. I'm just kind of running out of room as well. Well, go rent something for$300 somewhere. Yeah, don't go purchase something big. Do not go buy a building and buy a business because your hat business is working out of your laundry room. No, no, no, no. These things are not connected. They're not connected. You are doing a great job. Take what you're doing and do more of it.

2:04:57Dave Ramsey:Don't take on somebody else's problems. Okay. Let me tell you, hat business, you're doing all this on the internet. You're marketing. A brick-and-mortar location does not sell you hats. If it does, go to the person that's got the brick-and-mortar location and rent 100 square feet of their front window from them. But don't take on the whole business. And no, no, no, no, no. Go do more hats, Bailey. Hats are working. That puts us our The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. in the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.