Focus On What You Can Control With Your Money

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10:21Rachel Cruze:Next up, we have Angela in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Angela. Welcome to the show. Hi there. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I am calling on behalf of my parents. There are seven kids in my family, and we are trying to help get my parents set up for retirement and get them in a good position. Because there are seven kids, it's kind of tricky. My parents don't own a lot of assets. They only own their home outright and their vehicles. They do have about$50 ,000 in debt.

11:10Dr. John Delony:and that's all on credit cards. Some of it is medical debt. Some of it is mismanagement of spending and lack of income. My dad is 77.

11:26Rachel Cruze:My mom is 72, and they do get Social Security, but they don't bring in very much income because my dad is older. um he he has worked um his whole life and he still works a little bit but business has been

11:43Dr. John Delony:pretty slow for him and so paying off their debt is a struggle at the moment and then um medical expenses start to creep up and so us kids we're trying to figure out how to support them

11:58Rachel Cruze:And in a way, that doesn't cause division among the siblings and help my parents and just not really knowing what to do. They don't have a will. Their home is not in a trust or in a will. And they are needing money for their daily cost of living as well as paying off that roughly$50 ,000 in debt. And with my dad's lack of income at the moment, some of the kids are struggling with, do we support them financially? Do we give them each a fixed amount per month? Should we force them to get the money out of their own home in the form of reverse mortgage? Let me jump in here, Angela.

12:49Dr. John Delony:Let me ask you this one question. This is a question I ask everybody in this situation. are your parents even open to help yes they are um i would say mostly my dad is my mom is too but her idea of help is a little bit different um my my dad is very open to all

13:10Rachel Cruze:ideas and my mom is kind of like i just want y 'all you kids to give us to take care of take care of She's obviously money. Yeah. She's in care of us. And she is not open to touching the house, a reverse mortgage at all.

13:27Dr. John Delony:Don't do a reverse mortgage. Please don't do that. Okay. Are you married? I am. Okay. Here's – and Rachel, push back if you think I'm out of line here. I think the most important thing like in order of steps is for you and your spouse to determine what y 'all's values are what dollar amount you could afford to give a one-time gift or a like whatever like y 'all decide in your home

13:54Rachel Cruze:regardless of the siblings regardless of the siblings

13:56Dr. John Delony:getting seven people I mean just turn the news on you can't get seven people to agree on whether four plus four is eight right And so that's going to be a chore in and of itself. If there's one, the best way I've ever seen it done was my uncle Jim. There's four siblings, my dad, two older brothers and a younger sister. And the eldest uncle called a meeting and said, here's how this is going to go. And all four siblings were united and it was awesome. I've heard of that happening one time, and that was in my family. Other than that, you're going to have somebody who wants to just never say no to them.

14:38Dr. John Delony:You're going to have somebody that wants to teach them a lesson, and you're going to have two people who are like, well, when we were kids, they never. And so I think the best path for you, and to not make yourself insane, is to say, here's what we can do, and then pass that along to the siblings. And either you take the lead and move forward or you just say, here's what we're going to do independent of the rest of y 'all. And everybody do the best you can or whatever. Yeah.

15:02Rachel Cruze:What's your gut on that, Angela? What do you guys financially, are you in a spot to even have the conversation of giving them money each month? And or do you even feel the need to? Because you know what I mean? Like everyone has a different level of what giving looks like and people's take on enabling a situation versus help. Right. I mean, everyone kind of has a different span on how they think. What is your gut? I'm just curious.

15:32Dr. John Delony:Yeah, those are fantastic questions.

15:35Rachel Cruze:And that's definitely something that all of us have already been discussing. And this has kind of been two or three years in discussion and there's always division. So then the conversation gets dropped and then I bring it up again and then it gets dropped and I bring it up again.

15:50Dr. John Delony:So for me and my husband, we had just told my parents, we are going to start giving you guys$200 a month.

16:01Rachel Cruze:And we started that last month, September 1st. And then we said for the next, let's say, six months to a year, we are going to start doing that. and if all seven siblings can also do that you know we'll help my parents out a little bit and there kind of became some division where some kids said I don't have any money to give and then some kids said well I already gave my parents money in the form of five hundred dollars a few years ago so why should I give monthly then there's other other siblings and including

16:38Dr. John Delony:spouses, because now the spouse, all of us are married, less one, spouses feel like, well, why don't your parents just sell their home? Well, why don't your parents just sell their vehicle? Why don't your parents, you know, how did they get in this mess themselves? Angela, you trying to solve six other family units.

16:59Rachel Cruze:It's like 12 people. And their baggage and their issues.

17:04Dr. John Delony:it's just a complete and utter distraction from you having peace inside your own marriage you having peace inside your own financial world and your relationship with your parents and y 'all have decided y 'all made a y 'all said 200 bucks i i would let that stand and do what y 'all think is right and what y 'all want to do and and if enough so you know if there's one sibling that

17:28Rachel Cruze:wants to be loud about their opinion on selling their house they can call the parents and be like This is what you got to do. Yeah.

17:34Dr. John Delony:But you can't walk around and own it all. Even if you think, okay, ultimately they're going to have to sell their house. We know how this ends. They're going to move in with one of us because we know how this ends. Right. And you asked an important question at the end. How do I do all this without division? You can't. You can just face the division that you know is coming, whether it's your mom mad at you that she has to change her lifestyle in her 70s based on how she lived the last 50 years, based on your siblings getting mad or you're not helping enough or helping too much. The only thing you can do is face this division as a person with dignity and respect and honor.

18:12Rachel Cruze:And with your own self-integrity, right? There's something about when you are going into any level of, I think, I don't know if conflict's the right word, but you're going in to help someone or to have a hard conversation, like whatever that is, to know like you're doing it. Yes, it's going to help them obviously, but it's like, this is where I feel aligned within myself. And this is what I know financially is okay for my family. This feels right for me. And you act on that, right? It's like this self-integrity and you do it for you. And it's not so that the hope that my other siblings are also going to pitch in 200 or the hope that mom and dad are going to change once they like - Because neither of the things are going to happen.

18:50Rachel Cruze:That's right. That's right. It is out of just what you and your husband say, this is what we can do and this is what we feel good about doing too that it doesn't feel icky or it doesn't feel cheap like maybe we could give a lot more but we want to teach them a lesson right like there's it is just pure this is it and this is what we feel good about and i think that that's that's really all you such an important part i know which is so difficult and i feel like we get more and more of these calls of grown children looking to the the parents generation

19:19Dr. John Delony:i think we're going to get more and more and more and more in the next few years yes and um

19:24Rachel Cruze:But that self-integrity piece, which it sounds like you have, Angela. I feel like you guys have had good discussions within you and your husband, and you got to an amount on your own, like all of it. But I think that the relational dynamic, it does weigh when it's siblings and there's not peace and there's not unity. Like, that's hard. But to John's point, like, it's virtually impossible to get 14 people to agree on something.

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21:34Rachel Cruze:so one of the things that has helped people so often when they're trying to get in control of their money is to actually know where their money's going which is a pretty simple solution but it's one that when you actually practically live it out on a day-to-day basis changes so much your knowledge your habits all of it when it comes to money and that's one reason I love every dollar so every dollar it's not just a budgeting tool to have but it also will walk you through your entire financial plan and so whether you are feeling stuck financially and you just don't know your next move or maybe you're doing great and you're thriving but you still want to be intentional because regardless of where you are on the baby steps knowing where your money's going is so so important so make sure you check out every dollar you can download it for free in the app store or google play all right we have raquel in washington dc up next hi welcome to the show hey how are you hi we're doing great how can we

22:27Dr. John Delony:help okay so my question is if we know we aren't staying in the house we're in currently do we focus on paying it off or do we focus on investing the money towards the house instead the next house

22:40Rachel Cruze:When do you guys plan on moving?

22:43Dr. John Delony:So I think it will vary. I think if we pay this house off, we will probably stay a few years longer, maybe like six to seven years. But if we're going to pay it off now, then I think it will. I mean, if we aren't going to pay it off, maybe about four years, we will stay. What was the impetus for the move? So it's just, well, we don't have kids now. So we kind of want to be in a better area when we have kids and then just more rooms, bigger space. Gotcha.

23:10Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I like the idea always, Raquel, because you guys don't have any consumer debt. Are you completely debt free by the house? Yeah.

23:19Dr. John Delony:Nice.

23:20Rachel Cruze:So great. And how much do you guys make a year? $2.15. Okay. And how much is left on the mortgage? $3.50. Very nice. Okay, so if you guys did pay it off and kind of work towards that, have you looked at a timeline of how long that would take you? So we think it should take us about three years max to pay it off. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So I would do that in a heartbeat because what that force is, you don't lose that money, right? It's just equity. Now, will it grow slower in real estate than how the market's performed? Maybe. But there's something not only having the peace of having a paid off home where you don't have to worry about it.

24:02Rachel Cruze:But again, it's kind of this forced savings account, if you will. Because if you're sometimes we're like, OK, yeah, I'm going to invest the difference instead of paying off my mortgage. But honestly, what sometimes comes up is a great trip, you know, once in a lifetime thing over here to do or to let's upgrade and do this instead of that. Like instead of investing, let's let's do some renovations or instead of investing, let's buy a new car. right? Like that money easily can be swayed in other directions. But when it is focused on just one thing, especially your house, knowing that it's locked in and equity, if you will, as you're paying down that mortgage, it's just that forced savings account, which it always feels like a safe plan because you're not really in the equation when that happens.

24:46Rachel Cruze:And when we get in the equation, sometimes we can go off track, if you will.

24:51Dr. John Delony:And it's easy to look out four years and say, that's a good point too we're gonna have let me just tell you from my personal life when my wife and i started like we're gonna start having kids it didn't happen for three almost four years in that time i think we moved two different jobs um had multiple different places where we lived and sometimes there was a season there was over a year when we lived in a 900 square foot apartment with a two-year-old and that's we still look back as one of the coolest experiences we ever had. And there was times we lived in a tiny, tiny little rent house, maybe 900.

25:26Dr. John Delony:It was a little bitty old place. We loved it. And so all that to say is if you put that project out in four years, who knows what's going to happen to your jobs? Who knows what's going to happen to the market? Who knows what's going to happen to any number of things? But the one thing nobody will be able to take away from you is a paid off house. Yeah, that's true. And so if you're thinking of control the controllables now, who knows what will happen in three years, five years, seven years, whoever. But I know I've got this thing taken care of here. And so I like that just from a sense of peace.

25:57Dr. John Delony:And if y 'all do end up having kids, amazing, great. I know you want bigger bedrooms and this and a different kitchen, all that. Also, that's awesome. But man, in a paid for house where there's no family stress, your kids are going to thrive like kids have for centuries. Yeah, that's true. You know, without each having their own bathroom and their own, I don't know, kitchenette in each room or whatever, their own helipad for their helicopter to land or whatever. Like I, I love, love, love that idea. If you told me you were going to move in 18 months, cause one of y 'all was going to be changing jobs or something, I would tell you to save your money.

26:30Yeah.

26:30Rachel Cruze:And Raquel too, you know, if you guys decide to move later down, the money's not lost. It's just equity that's going to be put into another home as well, you know? And, And I want to make sure, though, you guys are investing in retirement, too, right, as part of this?

26:47Dr. John Delony:Okay, yeah. So we're currently – well, we're meeting this week to make sure we have everything aligned with the SmartVestor Pro. Oh, great. Our other thing – because we are sitting on some money that we're just sitting on. Okay. So we're trying to meet with the SmartVestor Pro this week to make sure we are actually getting our money out there in the market. And that could also be part of the price because we feel like we haven't done it as much, you know, so far. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're like, okay, well, should we be investing instead? Yeah, so that may be... But we can do it at the same time, obviously, but it would just be, you know, a little less in the market.

27:18Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and that may make you feel better because we recommend 15 % of your income going into retirement. So if you haven't been meeting that, it may feel like, gosh, we should... That pool of we should be putting more money in the market may actually solve itself once you actually put, you know, an adequate amount and then anything extra throwing at the house. So you may actually get the best of both worlds after meeting with your smart investor pro because you may be investing more than you are now, which will feel great. All right, let's go to Grady in Portland. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi. Hello, thanks for calling in.

27:51Rachel Cruze:Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

27:54Dr. John Delony:I'm currently a self-employed doing landscaping and I'm just wondering how I can reduce my federal income tax.

28:01Rachel Cruze:How to reduce your federal income tax?

28:04Dr. John Delony:Just my federal tax, sorry.

28:06Rachel Cruze:Just your taxes? Well, yeah, I mean, you pay, obviously, income tax, self-employment tax. I mean, they're all pretty based amounts. I mean, you can do some write-offs in small business, but you do want to make sure those are legitimate. So if you ever get audited, it doesn't look sketchy.

28:25Dr. John Delony:What's your bigger question? How old are you? I'm 19. Okay, so you're realizing the world sucks. Okay.

28:32Rachel Cruze:That's what you're realizing. I was like, I don't know.

28:35Dr. John Delony:Listen, brother, if you were here, I would just stop talking. And I would give you a humongous hug and say, welcome to it, man. Yeah. Listen, last year, I got at the end of the year. I looked at all the taxes I had paid and I called a friend and I said, I have to tell one person how much taxes I wrote last year. And I told him and he it was a long, silent pause. And he goes, man, that sucks. Like, like, and there's I know that you probably are on Instagram and TikTok about all these super hacks and whatever. there is some of that stuff you can depreciate your lawn mowers and stuff like that but it's not going to be what you think it is in terms of there's not some secret thing that you can do to hide federal money you just pay cesar what's cesars and get on about your life i do want to

29:24Rachel Cruze:make sure you're are you doing quarterly payments with your business uh i just started doing quarterly good okay that's where the most small businesses starting out mess up okay that's great How much money did you make last year in the business?

29:37Dr. John Delony:Last year wasn't a great year. Probably$60 ,000 this year. I'm going to double that, if not more. Way to go, man. Oh, my gosh.

29:44Rachel Cruze:Well done. Do you have anyone working for you, or is it just you?

29:47Dr. John Delony:Just me. That a boy, dude. Way to go, man. Dude, that's awesome.

29:50Rachel Cruze:That's so great.

29:51Dr. John Delony:Okay, so you're in Portland, too, which has really high state income tax. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, I'll pay a good chunk this year, and I'm just wondering, like, how can I try to reduce that? bought a new truck this year already new trailers new mowers yeah you can do some write-offs for the business itself yeah sit down with a with a with a tax professional go to go to ramsysolutions.com slash tax and you can get with a tax pro in your area that will help you with those kind of things because as a small business owner you can write a lot of that stuff off and that will help but it's not going to help on like the tax yeah yeah yeah yeah it's uh it's a hard reality but honestly

30:32Rachel Cruze:Grady, I think one of the things to remember is, which again, if you meet with a Ramsey trusted agent, I'm never going to recommend this. Don't ever try to like skirt the system. No, just pay your taxes and get on. Pay your taxes. And the quarterly payments is really big for small businesses. So many people get in trouble with taxes, not trying to maliciously. It's just mismanagement. So the fact that you're on those quarterly payments, that's going to help you plan so well. So dude, well done. 120 in one year, Grady. That's awesome.

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32:46Rachel Cruze:If you're new to The Ramsey Show, one thing you should know is that we answer majority of questions through the lens of the seven baby steps. So when it comes to your money, there really is this, it's a proven plan over three decades of really getting people to this place. If you feel stuck, you're in debt, paycheck to paycheck, no savings, all the way to a paid off house. Kids college is being funded. You're funding retirement and you have a plan for the future and you're able to be extremely generous. So in a specific order called the baby steps. So make sure to check those out. We'll leave a link down below if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube so that you can check that out and apply it to your life and your money to help you get control.

33:27Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to Joe in Flint, Michigan. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the show.

33:33Dr. John Delony:Hey, Rachel and John. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

33:36Rachel Cruze:Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

33:38Dr. John Delony:Well, I just wanted to start off with my obligatory thank you. I really appreciate everything you guys do. And I'm a big emotional guy. So if I start crying, just know that they're happy tears right now. Oh, you're next to John. Me too, brother.

33:51Rachel Cruze:He's emotional too. I'll cry with you.

33:53Dr. John Delony:Well, John, I'm so glad to be talking to you, especially, and no offense, Rachel, but it was, you know, five years ago, I was freshly out of a toxic marriage, single father of five kids. And I mean, I was as close to the end of the rope as I had ever been. And I saw a video of you, you know, I'd heard of Ramsey and whatnot, but I saw a video of you looking into the camera and you said something like, you know, you are worth more than your bank balance or something like that. Yes, sir. That brought me to the program, and here I am now. I'm glad you're here, brother. I'm glad you're here. Thank you.

34:28Dr. John Delony:I appreciate that. I see the shining city at the top of the hill. I'm probably a year and a half away from being debt-free except my mortgage, and that's due to you guys. But my question is, my employer, they offer a Roth 401k, and they do an automatic contribution, not a match. And through the years, through growth in the markets and everything, that's actually, I logged in a few weeks ago, and I see it's actually up to about 16 ,000 just their contributions. And I'm looking at all the different categories that I can put it in, and I'm just wondering how to optimize that for the Ramsey program, you know, the four different ways you recommend investing.

35:11Dr. John Delony:I see, you know, it shows like target growth or target retire this year. I see mid-cap, small-cap, large-cap, and then there's real estate funds and all this different stuff I can put it in. And I was just wondering what would be the best way to do that. Crypto. All of it in crypto, brother. Every dime, right? Every dime. And a few Pokemon cards. Then you're covered. It's called diversified. Should I get some gorilla NFTs? Correct. And if you can get your hands on a few Beanie Babies, too, that would be dope. You would have all of your bases covered. Yes, naturally. I have a garage full of those.

35:51Rachel Cruze:Oh, my gosh.

35:51Dr. John Delony:Don't do anything that I just said. None of that. No, I do not recommend or endorse anything that came out of your mouth just about the last 30 seconds.

36:00Rachel Cruze:Everything else, I trust them. Don't trust them on that. No, yeah, when you look at it, really the four different types of mutual funds that we look at diversifying is growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. So those are really the four. and when you meet with financial planners, which I probably recommend you would, once you get to Baby Step 4, Joe, to meet with a SmartVestor Pro, you can go to RamseySolutions.com and find someone because you may be investing more beyond just what they, which you should be, more than just their automatic contributions.

36:34Dr. John Delony:As soon as I'm done with my debt, it's all my bets are off. I'm throwing everything I can at it.

36:39Rachel Cruze:That's awesome. Yep, totally, absolutely. But yeah, those are really the four buckets We would recommend. My question to you is how much are they putting in? When you say automatic contributions, I'm curious if they're doing it by percentage.

36:53Dr. John Delony:No, so it ends up they put in like$0.70 per hour that you work, so it ends up being$1 ,200 to$1 ,400 a year. Okay. So their actual contributions are about$5 ,900 over the past few years, but through the markets it's actually gone up to almost$16 ,000.

37:11Rachel Cruze:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So when I would be looking at this, if I was calculating up to that 15 % of your income going into retirement, I almost would treat this kind of in a way like a pension where we say it counts for half of whatever that they're putting in, the percentage is half towards your 15%, whatever percentage. And so I almost would do that because it's not your money. It's just free money, but it still is counting towards your retirement. So when you're looking at it all together, you may, yeah, I would factor that in. So I wouldn't factor in what they're putting in as just your 15%.

37:48Rachel Cruze:I would be doing more on top of that as well when you get to that point of baby step four. So Joe, well done though. How incredible. So five years later, how are the kids?

37:59Dr. John Delony:Oh, they're great. You know, it was a long, tenuous divorce, and, you know, we said some things we didn't necessarily mean to say. But coming out the other side of it, everybody's happy, healthy, well-adjusted, and I bet I couldn't be happier. Let me say this. You said at the beginning of the call, you're grateful to us, and we did this. Make no mistake, brother. Rachel and I, Dave, George, Jade, we run our mouths on a microphone. You're the ones out there day in and day out grinding this thing out. Five kids, single dad, making all the breakfasts, all the lunches, all of the nighttime routines.

38:40Dr. John Delony:Dude, that's you.

38:42Rachel Cruze:Paying off debt in the middle of it. I mean, all of it's amazing.

38:44Dr. John Delony:Hear me say, brother, I'm so proud of you, dude. Like I'm beaming now. You are a shining example of a man picking up life after the storm and saying, okay, I can only control me, and I'm going to head into the middle of what comes next. I'm proud of you, dude. That's awesome. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. And I have to say, so I was a single dad at the time, but let me just clarify, I found the most amazing woman. Oh, yeah.

39:10Rachel Cruze:Yeah, remarried.

39:12Dr. John Delony:Happier than I've ever been. She has the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met. She welcomed me and my five straggling kids. My friend calls them a gaggle of kids. She welcomed us into her home, and the future is bright.

39:27Rachel Cruze:I love it. It's awesome. We love a redemption story.

39:29Dr. John Delony:Congratulations, dude.

39:30Rachel Cruze:Amazing, Joe. Thanks for calling. All right, let's go to Jessica in Boston. Hi, Jessica. Welcome. Hey, you guys. How are you? Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

39:42Dr. John Delony:So my husband and I are 26 and 27. We've been married for four months. We don't have any debt. And our goals for the coming years are to hopefully purchase our first home in about two years and start having children in around three years. So my question is how to balance our financial plan between those two goals and how should an emergency fund change in preparation for having kids?

40:09Rachel Cruze:Yeah, that's a great question. So we recommend having three to six months of expenses saved. So I think for you guys at that point, I think three months would probably be just fine. Once you get pregnant, if you feel like you want to up it a little bit to have some cushion, you can do that. But once that three-month emergency fund is funded, then that's when we move on to Baby Step 3B. And that's where you're going to be saving for a down payment for your home. So really, the order doesn't change because of the kids necessarily. The only thing that would change is once you get pregnant. if you're like, I kind of want some more in the emergency fund because it just would feel better.

40:43Rachel Cruze:I'd rather go up to five months versus three. Then you can do that. But considering you guys are so young, you're not homeowners right now. I mean, a three month emergency fund is totally fine to shoot for. So that being your first goal and then second is the down payment. And then when the kids come, it's just an extra cherry on top.

41:01Dr. John Delony:Is there anything else that you would consider throwing into that emergency fund calculation, like daycare expenses, and we do have health insurance, but potentially any like health expenses. And I guess it makes me nervous to have really no idea how much all that stuff is going to cost, you know?

41:20Rachel Cruze:A billion dollars.

41:21Dr. John Delony:A billion. It's so much expensive.

41:24Rachel Cruze:No, so daycare should become part of your monthly budget. So that would be a rhythm of your lifestyle, not as not as much in an emergency funds, right? So that will be something you guys will calculate if you go back to work, that will be coming just out of your income that should not be coming out of an emergency fund. And then yes, I mean, some medical bills. I mean, I think you can, you know, I would ask depending on your insurance plan, probably out of pocket, which you guys are gonna have to pay because it's everything from your OB visits, all the way to labor and delivery. And so kind of figuring out, okay, where you know, what are the thresholds?

41:58Rachel Cruze:what will insurance cover, what will it not? And if you want that money set aside, for sure, that's great. Yeah, just to have it. Because technically a baby, I wouldn't say really is an emergency because an emergency is unexpected and you have nine months to expect it. So I hope it goes well for you guys, Jessica. And well done being so young and gosh, financially just so on target.

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43:47Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we're answering your questions. You can call us at 888-825-5225. All right, we have Melissa in Detroit, Michigan, up next. Hi, Melissa. Welcome to the show. Hi, you guys. How are you? Thanks for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help?

44:11Dr. John Delony:um well my husband um came to me this past week um and said that my father-in-law is offering us um quite a large sum of money to help us purchase a home um so we've been thinking about moving for gosh like probably the past five or six years and um this particular situation um the the home that we're looking at is owned by a friend of our my father-in-law and they want to give us a really great price on it but he wants to gift us my father-in-law wants to gift us this big sum of money as like a an early inheritance okay so

44:57Rachel Cruze:you would take it now versus when they pass yes okay so that my question is is

45:05Dr. John Delony:Is this something we should or shouldn't do? What kind of things should we be even thinking about? It seems awesome. I mean, I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I kind of do. I want to make sure we're thinking through this clearly. And I've never bought a home before. When I moved in here, my husband already owned the home. So I'm brand new to the whole process.

45:30Rachel Cruze:And I'm just wondering, what should we be considering? Is this a loan or a gift? It's a gift. It's a gift. Okay. Because the screen says loan. It's a gift. Okay.

45:41Dr. John Delony:Yeah. We'll probably, once we sell our own home, we'll probably give some of it back, about half of it back from the sale of our home. Why would you do that?

45:55Dr. John Delony:I guess, I don't know. So the gift is so that it can be done without us having to have our home sold first. Then it's not a gift.

46:09Rachel Cruze:He's loaning you guys$400 ,000 until your home sells. Yes, I guess. But he doesn't want, he's giving us the option to pay it back or not.

46:20Dr. John Delony:He doesn't care. Okay.

46:22Rachel Cruze:And if you don't pay it back, that's the inheritance piece. that it'll just come out of your husband's portion of the inheritance. Correct. I got you.

46:30Dr. John Delony:Here's what I already don't like about it is, man, if your father-in-law sat y 'all down and said, hey, I've been saving, it's a dream of mine to give y 'all 400 grand to get launched out into your new life together. And there's no strings attached. Here you go. It's a gift. And I was going to leave you$2 million. I'm going to leave you 1.6 now. I would be all about that. That'd be great. but it already feels messy to the point that if you get this$400 ,000 and then you sell your house and you've got a couple of hundred grand in an account that you think I'm going to put in a college fund or we're going to buy a little bit bigger house knowing that we're going to sell this other house, et cetera.

47:12Dr. John Delony:And there's always going to be this looming, well, are y 'all going to pay it back? Or is it going to be that it wasn't decisive enough for you? That gets so messy, so weirded out and if your husband's like well we gotta pay back something and dad gave us this one time that's where I start getting real icky about it. Okay we don't feel that pressure from

47:33Rachel Cruze:him so I don't know if So it really is just a gift. He's just

47:38Dr. John Delony:If it's a pure$40 ,000 or a gift and he's wealth and he's got it I love that but there can't be any strings attached to it.

47:45Rachel Cruze:Yeah and then this other and then the other thing Melissa is sometimes people get in trouble when they get a quote unquote good deal from a home from a family friend. If that was not a home you guys would originally purchase with this money, don't feel pressured into a situation just because it's quote unquote a good deal. Because when you buy a home, it's the largest financial transaction you guys are going to make. And you want to love it. You want it to be yours that you picked and that you love. And maybe you do. Maybe you guys love this house and you're getting the deal and it's the best of both worlds.

48:14Rachel Cruze:But we see that a lot too within friends and family of like, oh, it's my grandmother's house. I can buy it for a good deal. But you wouldn't have picked it necessarily in the first place. It's just the long-term implications of doing something this large of a transaction. It's something to think about, too. I just want to make sure that this is...

48:33Dr. John Delony:Get an inspection, do an appraisal, do all the stuff like you would normally buy a regular house. Sure, sure. The whole reason for him even wanting to help us do this is so we can just be in the house free and clear with no payment. Yeah, it's amazing. That's, I mean, it's just awesome. Yeah. And the house is about$200 ,000 more valuable than our current home. So my husband's thinking we'll live here until the kids graduate from high school. And if we want to move at that point, we can. We still have this awesome asset. Yeah. Now that we didn't have before.

49:13Rachel Cruze:So you're. We're just trying to make sure we're thinking through all. There's gift tax implications as well. So I would make sure with an estate attorney that the way the house is deeded, like all of that is clean and clear. Because sometimes those wires can get crossed and just making sure that that the transaction is done with at the at the end. It's exactly how you guys would want it done. Sure.

49:37Dr. John Delony:And I want y 'all to be able to – how old are your kids? They're 13 and 10. Okay. I want your 10-year-old to – and I'm making this up. I wouldn't wish this on anybody, okay? I want your 10-year-old if when he turns 11, if he needs some special education stuff and y 'all end up having to sell this house in a year, I want that to be okay. Yeah. Okay. I don't want you to feel imprisoned in this house because dad gave me this money to buy his buddy's house. And now this is where we have to live no matter what. And we have to start compromising on things that really matter to us because of the – if somebody's going to give you a gift and they're going to shake your hands and say, go knock your lights out, that's awesome.

50:17Dr. John Delony:I love – I would love to be able to do that for my kids.

50:19Rachel Cruze:I think that's the situation we're in. And that's why I feel like it's so good. It's too good to be true. Right, right. Well, it's a rare thing. But honestly, Melissa, I'm like, that's part of when we talk about changing your family tree and people on baby step seven, especially people that hit it, hit that step early and they are able to invest and build wealth. Like that is that's the stuff right without enabling your kids and all the things that people think about. But man, to set your family up so well that if you don't have a mortgage payment, Melissa, you guys invest like crazy. You build your own wealth to be able to do this for your kid.

50:51Rachel Cruze:Right, like that's where you start to pass down an insane amount of this generational change, not just with tangible money, but also, man, the gift and the freedom and the generosity and the peace and like all of that that comes with it. It's an amazing gift.

51:08Dr. John Delony:Here's what I want you to do, Melissa. I want you to write down like on a notes app, on your phone, on a yellow pad, however you want to do it. Write down the questions you have. and here's a good litmus test for you. If you can sit down with your father-in-law and your mother-in-law and y 'all sit across the table and you are able to say, okay, I've got seven questions. Number one, I don't want this to change our relationship because I love being your daughter-in-law. Can you promise me this gift won't change our relationship? Number two, if something was to ever happen and we had to sell this home for whatever reason, would we have your blessing?

51:42Dr. John Delony:Number three, right? I want y 'all to go through and if you can't ask those questions, then that tells me there may be strings attached to this gift. if you can ask those questions and the relationship is the most important thing and this is just an awesome thing that they're able to bless you with, man, I'd say run screaming through that front door and cheer because this is pretty awesome.

52:34Rachel Cruze:Okay, George, we hear from so many people that are trying to live out to the Ramsey plan, right? They're getting out of debt and everything. But the hard thing is there's not many banks out there that actually support the way we teach people to handle money.

52:45Dr. John Delony:Yeah, most banks, they don't want you to win with money. So they charge a bunch of nuisance fees. There's all this fine print. And worst of all, they are pushing debt products at you nonstop.

52:54Rachel Cruze:Yes. But the good thing is, is that Fairwinds isn't like most banks.

52:57Dr. John Delony:They're not like the other guys.

52:58Rachel Cruze:They're not like the other guys. Yeah, they are not pushing debt. And they actually want you to win with the baby steps. And so what's great, too, is they created the smart bundle for Ramsey fans, which includes a high yield savings account and no monthly fee checking.

53:13Dr. John Delony:Which is huge because it's rare to have a checking account tied to a high yield savings account. You can get all of that with Fairwinds. And for the nerds out there, you can have 10 different high-yield savings accounts for different goals. So you got your emergency fund, the car upgrade fund, the vacation fund. The world is your oyster. So beautiful.

53:28Rachel Cruze:And check out the debit card, the new one, the live like no one else debit card. Oh, that's beautiful. It's so beautiful. That's a conversation starter. It's so good. And when you swipe or you tap, every time you take it out of your wallet, you're remembering that you are living like no one else. And you're being intentional with your money.

53:42Dr. John Delony:I've been using Fairwinds for months and months now. I love their features, the app, the customer service. It is all so good and so aligned with the Ramsey principles.

53:51Rachel Cruze:Absolutely. So y 'all, we both bank at Fairwinds and we love their commitment to Ramsey values.

53:56Dr. John Delony:So check it out. You can get that smart bundle. We're going to drop a link in the description or you can go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey today.

54:03Rachel Cruze:That's right. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

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54:51Dr. John Delony:All right, today's question comes from Michael in Oklahoma. Michael writes, we recently sold our home and we're trying to figure out the best place to park the$300 ,000 we got at closing. We don't plan to buy until we're ready to retire four years from now. Where do you recommend we place these funds to earn interest until we buy again?

55:11Rachel Cruze:So kind of our rule of thumb is that four to five year mark. if it's anything less than that, just a good high yield savings account is probably where you'd park it just to be safe for the ups and downs of the stock market versus investing. But man, that four years is right on the cusp of, I mean, the past four years, I know we can't, we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know what's gonna happen in the future, but.

55:34Dr. John Delony:Yeah, if you put 300 grand in the market four years ago.

55:37Rachel Cruze:It did pretty well.

55:37Dr. John Delony:Yeah, it would be great.

55:39Rachel Cruze:So you don't know what it's gonna do, but I mean, I would say, I don't know. I think if it was four years, I think I'd be tempted to drop it like in an index fund or part of it.

55:47Dr. John Delony:Would you? Yeah. See, I'd be tempted to put it in the HSA.

55:50Rachel Cruze:Yeah.

55:50Dr. John Delony:A high yield savings account and just call it.

55:53Rachel Cruze:Yeah.

55:53Dr. John Delony:Not an HSA, not a health savings account, but a high yield savings account.

55:55Rachel Cruze:High yield savings. Yeah, yeah.

55:56Dr. John Delony:But I, Rachel's, I have an allergy to risk that Rachel doesn't have, so.

56:00Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Because four years, it's that four to five year, I mean, you could go, yeah. So I'd say whatever your comfort is for you to sleep well at night. John needs his.

56:10Dr. John Delony:I like to put it under my pillow.

56:11Rachel Cruze:I was going to say that he can just see it. I want it in cash. It's not going anywhere. It's right here. I feel safe. I feel safe. Where I'm like, man, that four years is a long time for$300 ,000 and what it could do. So I would probably put someone in like an index funds and then maybe someone in high yield savings and see what happens.

56:29Dr. John Delony:So here's your job, Michael, from Oklahoma. Call us back in four years with whatever you decided to do. And Lord willing, Rachel hasn't fired me yet. I will still be here and we'll decide who was right.

56:43Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I don't have that kind of power. All right, let's go to Erica in Kansas City. Hi, Erica. Welcome to the show. Hi there. Hello. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

56:53Dr. John Delony:Yeah, I was wondering if you guys could help us think about how we should be investing in our home as far as renovations go. We bought a home a couple of years ago, and we're kind of redoing everything ourselves. But our bigger projects, our more expensive projects are coming up now. You know, so we can we can refinish floors and do our paint and that's fine. And that'll cost whatever it costs and windows and things. But we're getting ready to do to do our kitchen. And my husband and I have different. How do you say that? We have different standards. He needs a microwave and a pizza box. That's what he needs.

57:36Dr. John Delony:That's right.

57:36Rachel Cruze:That's what he needs. And I need custom cabinets. Yes, you do. Yes. Yes. That's fair. That's fair. Well, I think it would be, I always like to know ranges of like, okay, if we were to do the kitchen, ranges of countertops. What's the cheapest you go? What's the most expensive? Where do we kind of feel comfortable landing? Pick a number for fun on a sheet of paper, right? Same with cabinets. Same with flooring. Same with appliances. Like go down the list of your big ticket items. And like everything, you can get the cheapest of the cheap, right? I mean, you get a used refrigerator or you can get a sub-zero, right?

58:10Rachel Cruze:I mean, like it's, yeah, it's that range. And I would go through, Erica, just for fun, you're not actually making these decisions, but you guys together be like, okay, here's the range of price. This amount in the middle would get us this. And if you're like, yeah, that's great. I love that. Okay, let's write that number down. And go through and do all of that and just see how much that total is. And is it realistic in the timeframe of saving up that amount of money for when you guys want the remodel? And if it's too big of a number, which I feel like it usually is, which sucks at his life, then you go through and adjust and be like, okay, I may not need, you know, these countertops.

58:45Rachel Cruze:I could get, we could get away with these instead. Right. And you can lower the price quote unquote on the sheet of paper a little bit there and just see, okay, does the, does the amount of the remodel match our timeline and what we can realistically save? And that for me, I think, I think that's probably the biggest indicator. I feel like it's less of a, it's more of what we can afford, less of a value of like, oh, that's stupid. We don't need that. Cause if you're like, listen, if you want it, Erica, and you guys have the money for it, do it. You're going to be living in the kitchen, but you're probably not going to be able to get the dream every single thing, because that's not reality either.

59:17Dr. John Delony:I like to look at, oh, go ahead, go ahead.

59:20Rachel Cruze:Oh, sorry.

59:21Dr. John Delony:I think for us, like we have, we can spend the range. It's not really a matter of what we can afford. It's more of a, every time we come up to a project, I come to it like, okay we got to spend money anyway we might as well spend it but he looked at it as a this house is an investment if we spend over this amount that we don't know over here we're not going to be able

59:46Rachel Cruze:to get money out of our house okay so he's like yeah he's functioning in like a resale mindset now i would not do a little bit yeah so i would not price yourself out of the neighborhood right yeah i was gonna say i would not do that but i would pull comps number one and see like

1:00:02Dr. John Delony:So if you have a$250 ,000 house and you're going to put a$100 ,000 kitchen, new laundry room, and an extra bathroom in there, and the most expensive comp in your neighborhood is$275 ,000, then you're going to be way – you'll have put way more money in that house than you'll probably get back.

1:00:19Rachel Cruze:So there's a realistic of that. Right. But also some people – I'm not saying this is your husband, Erica – but some people are like – Are the worst. We're not going to do this because of the resale value. We're not going to put in a pool and have memories for the next generation because it's not good resale value. It's like, oh, my gosh, you just have to live sometimes. So there's a wisdom and don't price yourself out of the neighborhood, Erica. But then there's also on his end, I'm like, dude, not every decision you make is through a frame of like math and Excel sheet. Sometimes if you have the money, enjoy.

1:00:48Dr. John Delony:So I will tell you, I just did a whole bunch of work at my house. and I did have a real estate pro, a range real estate pro pull comps just to make sure I was in some ballpark.

1:00:59Rachel Cruze:I thought you were gonna say your contractor. No, no, yeah, no.

1:01:02Dr. John Delony:Rachel's husband was my contractor.

1:01:03Rachel Cruze:He was.

1:01:04Dr. John Delony:And then let me tell you, I didn't look at that again. I looked at what me and my wife had decided we were gonna spend and what we wanted and that's a house I wanna live in for a long time and so I wanted it how we wanted it. And so I wasn't dumb on either side of the thing but I wanted us to have information. I want to have information and not be stupid, but also that's my house that I'm going to, my kids are raising. I hope my grandkids come play there one day and they may not, the world may change, but I don't want to be walking up that sidewalk every, every morning for the next five years thinking, man, I should have, I should have, especially when I had the money already in savings now.

1:01:43Rachel Cruze:So there's a kind of land we're living in too. Okay. Yeah. So how do you help the husband?

1:01:49Dr. John Delony:Listen, brother, if,

1:01:52Rachel Cruze:I don't use your degree you're a psychologist John get in his mind okay I'm gonna get I'm

1:01:58Dr. John Delony:gonna get in his mind when it comes to things in the kitchen the answer is yes always that's the thing and I don't want to be sexist I don't want to gender it but if my wife says I want to do this to the kitchen I want to do this to the master bathroom the answer to that question is always you got it let's figure that out and I like you and so that's that's my clinical answer to that which is terrible but also there is like i give him i let me say this like okay so i was this guy at my very first house i was always crunching this and moving this and what if we did this i want to put this floor in but i don't like this my dog peed in the carpet so i'd change it up but i gotta and i was talking to a buddy who's a banker close buddy of mine and i was going through all this stuff.

1:02:44Dr. John Delony:And then he said this one line to me, I think I was 26 years old and it changed my life. He said, dude, and this is a guy who lives, he has like his, his mattress flipping it. Like when he rotates his mattress in a spreadsheet, that's this guy. And he said, bro, get your wife a home. And I was like, what? And he said, do all that other stuff later, get your wife a home. And that changed it for me. Is yes, like if you're buying a rental property, you got to use the formulas. And if you're trying to ROI this thing, you don't want to be dumb and do$500 ,000 worth of renovations on a$200 ,000 house.

1:03:22Dr. John Delony:All that's true. And get a house that you both love living in, man. And if it's nicer cabinets, get the nicer cabinets, man. It's, I don't know.

1:03:32Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and there's a value system to the longevity and the enjoyment of your home, Erica, that you prioritize for you. And so there is a marriage conversation to be had of a value system at which how do we compromise and get to this place that we both feel good about the home that we are creating this life in, right?

1:03:50Dr. John Delony:And by the way, you both need each other. I'm glad you both have each other to push and pull on this very issue.

1:04:08you

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1:06:11Rachel Cruze:so one of the most fun events that we get to do i think our money and marriage event is always so fun sean we have that in october but uh a really different event that we did for the first time last year was the live like no one else cruise and this cruise is a week-long cruise the entire ship is just people on Baby Steps 4 and beyond. And we talk so much about sacrifice and getting out of debt and getting your emergency fund, all of that. And then when it's done, you want to be able to celebrate. And so we wanted to create a place where you could do that. And so this is a week-long cruise. It is a very fantastic ship.

1:06:51Rachel Cruze:It's actually the same ship that we were all on last year. And it's beautiful. It's so nice. My family's coming for some of it. My family's coming.

1:06:58Dr. John Delony:Yeah, it's such a blast.

1:06:59Rachel Cruze:It is just a wonder. Yeah, there is. Beautiful, beautiful ship. And we're going to be heading to the Bahamas or not yet. Yes. To the Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman and Cozumel. And so it's seven nights, Western Caribbean cruise, March 14th through the 21st. And cabins are limited. And so if you want one, if you want to come with us, it's around the spring break time. So you can even bring your family. But gosh, this is a full week. All the Ramsey personalities will be on there. and Dave and Sharon, my parents will be there as well. And so it is so fun. So if you've paid off all of your debts, but the house and again, you're on baby step for this cruise is for you.

1:07:41Rachel Cruze:So all inclusive pricing starts at$2 ,105 per passenger. And that's all your food, entertainment, taxes, tip, cabin, all of that. And so there's a great thing about a ship. It's all included right there. It's all there. Yes.

1:07:54Dr. John Delony:My favorite parts were just I'm eating with my kids and sitting down with all sorts of baby, like just good people from all over the world. And it was just fun just getting to do life with folks for a week. And we have great fun, hilarious events, evening shows. We have teachings that go on all week. Everybody's doing Q &As. And it's just awesome.

1:08:21Rachel Cruze:It's a great week. It really is. We had a blast. And the people on the ship, you all are just the passengers that come. It was the best. The kindest, most wonderful people. Even the cruise ship staff talked about how generous.

1:08:33Dr. John Delony:It was the most generous cruise they've ever experienced.

1:08:36Rachel Cruze:Because people would, on top of their services right at the spa or something, they would tip insane. And it was so fun, truly living out this idea that you get to live like no one else. So come hang out with us for a week in March. Again, you can go to RamseySolutions.com slash events. Book your cabin. Come hang out with us for a week. All right. Next up, we are going to Allentown and talking to Shanice. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. Welcome, welcome. How can we help?

1:09:05Dr. John Delony:Yes. So I am newly engaged. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. We have been engaged now for a year. We actually just recently celebrated our year anniversary being engaged on Saturday.

1:09:19Rachel Cruze:Oh, an engagement anniversary. That's great. Man, the kids will come up with any reason to celebrate.

1:09:27Dr. John Delony:I love it.

1:09:28Rachel Cruze:When's the wedding? Next year. Okay. So great. So great. Yes. Yes.

1:09:35Dr. John Delony:So my fiance, he is coming into our relationship with three kids. And I am coming into a relationship with no children. And so he, for a very long time, has handled finances by himself as a single dad, you know, raising his kids by himself. And, of course, he does co-parenting and such, but he's used to pretty much doing everything by himself with the kids. I, on the other hand, am trying to get us to combine our finances and begin, like, the whole joint bank account situation. but it's been a little difficult to be honest. So I think our issue is that he, I'm not sure if he's ready to go ahead and combine our finances together.

1:10:25Dr. John Delony:We both have our own, I guess, childhood traumas as far as finances. And for me, I've been actively working through those things the past few years and my fiance is realizing, oh my goodness, I have bad habits. So my question is, how do we work through the bad habits together as a couple? And then how do we learn to combine finances, considering the fact that, you know, this is something that's really, really new. And I think we're just trying to align financially and there's still like, I don't know. It disconnects a little bit.

1:11:02Rachel Cruze:Great question. Yeah.

1:11:03Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And it's been a little tough.

1:11:05Rachel Cruze:Okay. Well, we really never recommend combining finances until you're actually married. So the fact you guys haven't yet, I think, is a good thing because there's really no legal protection. There's nothing. And if you combine everything now, you start paying on each other's stuff and all of it, it gets entangled. And then for some reason, if it doesn't work out, then you've entangled your finances with this person and untangling it can be a mess. And you've wasted some money on, if you help pay off his debt, as an example. So keeping everything separate until you are married. So that would be the conversation I would work towards with him is when we get married, what are then the hurdles at that point that we have to jump over really to make this transition the easiest?

1:11:53Rachel Cruze:So I'm assuming it's going to be the same issues that you're dealing with today. They're probably not going to change unless he does some work and you guys figure out some new patterns. So today, what causes him hesitation because of his bad habits? I think it's bad habits. And what does bad habits mean? Is that like gambling or is that spending too much? Is that like, what does that mean? He's a spender. I'm a favor. Okay.

1:12:17Dr. John Delony:So I, for instance, I'm like, nope, we should save this weekend, not eat out. I will cook and save, you know, on, you know, that expense. And he's like, no, let's go out to eat. or he's like constantly planning, like, what's the next trip that we can do? And I'm like, no, we're not going to do a trip because right now we should be saving, you know.

1:12:39Rachel Cruze:You sound like my marriage. You said I'm him and you're Winston.

1:12:43Dr. John Delony:So here's the thing I think, like a good exercise for both of you. One, we'll send you the Financial Peace University, the digital course, and y 'all can sit down and watch. I think there's seven or eight videos. Y 'all can watch them together. and here's what it will do a it will give you a philosophy and it will give you like an ironclad plan and what i love especially for engaged couples to watch this is it will it will definitely invoke some big time questions between the two of you if one of y 'all says i'm not doing that well then that's like a pause the video and that's an important thing for y 'all to talk about it's different when somebody says i would love to do that i don't even know where to start because then the video series will give you plans.

1:13:31Dr. John Delony:And this is a class that's been taught to millions of people and it will be great. I have to say though this, when folks ask me, hey, can you help me and my spouse work on our communication? Almost always what they're really asking me is, can you give me something, another way to say this so I can get my spouse to do what I want them to do? That part. And so what I'm hearing, the question beneath your question is, I think there's a real possibility that the person I want to marry will not fully share their life with me. And so where it can be what I call proxy wars is I want to go out. I want to cook at home.

1:14:12Dr. John Delony:I want to do that. And what that tells me is that there's a thing beneath the thing. And that is we aren't aligned on a future that we are building together.

1:14:20Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And it's probably hitting the spot. Like what she was saying about the childhood drama of like, you're not feeling safe. So you're like save the money to make sure that we're okay. He's feeling deprived and not respected because he has a plan and he's actually providing because his parents did. You know what I mean? Like, there's all these stories that we make up that come out as money problems, but all that is under. So I agree with what you're saying of like, can you get to the thing beneath the thing? Right.

1:14:44Dr. John Delony:And often that can be done by y 'all going out and saying, hey, let's go five years out in the future. What's our dream? How much money would you like to have in a savings account? What trips would you like to take? And let's just for a second dream with no math, and then let's just do math and say, okay, what must be true then for these things? What number would make you feel safe?

1:15:04Rachel Cruze:Can I ask you real quick, Janice, is he irresponsible with spending? Does he have the money or is he going into debt to do this stuff? No. He's not always going into debt to do these things. Okay, that's good. But he does have debt from bad decisions he's made in the past. Gotcha. it. So I think him earning some trust with you, working towards a life that is where he's getting out of debt. So that his spending, because the spender in him is always going to be there, that enjoyment and experiences and all of it. So how do you get that part of him in a healthy spot where he's still going to be that and you're still going to be you?

1:15:35Rachel Cruze:And that's the beautiful thing about marriage is opposites attract. You're going to be different and you need each other.

1:15:51Dr. John Delony:Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is, term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance now. And most people are surprised by how affordable term life really is, even if you're not in perfect health. Look, I understand the hesitation since most insurance companies make it more of a hassle than it needs to be. Not at Xander Insurance. They're not an insurance company.

1:16:30Dr. John Delony:They're a broker that works for you. That means they'll shop and compare the top term life companies to find the most competitive options on the coverage for your family. For almost 30 years, I've recommended Xander for straight answers, competitive rates, and coverage that actually protects your family. Call 800-356-4282 or go to Xander.com for a quick and easy quote. That's Xander.com.

1:17:14Rachel Cruze:Next up, we have Steve in New York City. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the show.

1:17:19Dr. John Delony:Hey, thank you so much. So cool to get in.

1:17:22Rachel Cruze:Oh, so glad you called.

1:17:24Dr. John Delony:I feel like I've made it.

1:17:25Rachel Cruze:I hope that's not your standard of life. You can do better. No, just kidding. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

1:17:31Dr. John Delony:You got it.

1:17:34Rachel Cruze:What's going on?

1:17:35Dr. John Delony:A union-administered 401k. I put 22 % in that right now. For various reasons, I'm trying to make up some lost ground here. the union requires my employer to put in 3 % whether I contribute or not. My issue is they don't make a lot of money with that 401, and I have no control over how it's invested. So last year it only did 8%. So my question is, would I be better off taking that 22 % and putting it somewhere else?

1:18:09Rachel Cruze:Yeah, absolutely. I fund the Roth every year also. Oh, good. Well done, Steve. would you lose the 3 % match? No, you would still get that.

1:18:20Dr. John Delony:No, the 3 % goes in no matter what.

1:18:21Rachel Cruze:So what made you decide to do the 22 % in the union because it's just a 401k?

1:18:30Dr. John Delony:Yeah, and it saves me tax-wise. Yeah. And it's what I thought I could stomach and still get by.

1:18:40Rachel Cruze:Okay.

1:18:40Dr. John Delony:You know, month to month. How much catch-up are you trying to do? well depends on how you look at it if i retired now i could make it but it would be tight so i plan to work until 67 at least how old are you a couple years 65 okay yeah so if you went on

1:19:02Rachel Cruze:your own and did like a brokerage right you'd be paying taxes on on both sides of the equation but i still think you probably gonna be better off than eight percent i mean steve i mean on

1:19:11Dr. John Delony:average like what was it last year was 22 22 percent you know so i'm like i know you can yeah

1:19:17Rachel Cruze:so the investment sucks myself yes of what they have it in um so i would go up to the three percent match of the 401k and then beyond that the roth ira and then if you still have 15 percent left that you need to in that 15 range gosh i may just i may just do yeah open up a brokerage account and do some some growth stock mutual funds or an index fund because i just think you're going to get i

1:19:39Dr. John Delony:I have a brokerage account that did 22 last year.

1:19:42Rachel Cruze:Yep, yep. So I almost think it would be worth it because what sucks about unions and their investment strategy is that you don't have a choice of what they put it in. And same with some pensions as well. And so that's why we always say don't put a large amount of your 15 % in those because you don't have that control. But, yeah, 8 % is – that's tough.

1:20:08Dr. John Delony:All in all, it's a good deal with them. I have a pension from a prior union. It's small now. I gave up most of that in a divorce. That explains the lost ground. And I have two other pensions with this union. When I leave, I'll only have 10 years in. So, you know, they're small, but they're very helpful.

1:20:27Rachel Cruze:Well, sure, but you don't have the control over where that money is being invested.

1:20:32Dr. John Delony:No, and I can't take those in a lump. Those are, you know, defined benefit plans. and that's that.

1:20:37Rachel Cruze:Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think if it were me, I think I would make other decisions with that money. So I probably would do the 3 % match that you had. And then the rest of it. Yeah. It's actually,

1:20:50Dr. John Delony:it isn't even a match. That's, they put that in with her. I don't have to do anything. Oh,

1:20:53Rachel Cruze:it's automatic. Okay. So yeah. So I mean, how much do you make a year, Steve?

1:20:59Dr. John Delony:I just got bumped up a bit. I'll be at about 150 this year.

1:21:04Rachel Cruze:150. Okay. so um let me think okay yeah because three percent and then the 7500 into the roth you'll have some extra left because you'll probably be investing if you do the 15 until your house is paid off

1:21:20Dr. John Delony:if you follow the baby steps then yeah that's i'm almost ready with that too okay we could throw that in there too if you want i i don't know if i should take money off the brokerage and just pay off the mortgage. I don't know. I owe$17 ,000 on it.

1:21:33Rachel Cruze:Okay. No, I would work your way through that, but I would, I would be in, I would take down your 22 % that you've been doing down to 15, do the 7 ,500 into the Roth, you know, add that you can add some of that 3 % from the employer, but that, but they're automatically doing it. Yeah. I mean, sorry, I'm jumbling here. I do Roth IRA. I would do Roth IRA. I would stop the union 401k because it's just a terrible rate of return. Put the rest remaining of your 15%. into a brokerage account and you could just put it in a again just like an index fund and it just goes into the the s &p 500 and then pay off your house and then once the house is paid off which hopefully you can do gosh and probably what eight months or something or less than that yeah then you can start throwing some more into that brokerage and just get it going so the benefit of the 401k of saving on tax of that pre-tax money going in i don't think it's going to come out well from a math standpoint if you are losing that much in gain from a from a rate of return

1:22:37Dr. John Delony:yeah i guess what do i need an accountant to crunch that number i would get with the

1:22:42Rachel Cruze:smart investor pro there in new york yeah if you go to ramsey solutions.com um you can check one out yeah they're in new york and that's probably what i would do is run those numbers because depending on when you want to retire and everything, but man, if it's 8 % and a 22 % market, it's going to be half of that. You know, it's just, it's, there's just too much to be gained, I think by sitting in something like that.

1:23:05Dr. John Delony:So yeah, I would, I use a SmartVestor Pro. Rachel uses a SmartVestor Pro. George, we all, I mean, we all, that's who we all sit down with. And so I trust them with my family's, that teaching and my particular agent with my, with my family's future. So that's me putting my money where my mouth is. And same with Rachel, same with all of us. So Dave's got a SmartVestor Pro. So that's what I would do. I'd sit down with him and crunch those numbers. Yeah.

1:23:30Rachel Cruze:And a SmartVestor Pro is someone who can advise you when it comes to your investments. So they're financial planners, investment advisors that look at this, not only this part of your life when it comes to investments, but even the overall picture. So other assets that you have, they can even look at your tax standpoint. I mean, they're able to look at your entire financial picture. They, you know, we really push when it comes to investing with them, but a great financial planner is going to look at your entire picture. And if you're on baby steps for and beyond you guys, having someone in your corner is so worth it.

1:24:00Rachel Cruze:Do that with anything in the financial space. Honestly, like if you are selling your house, get a great realtor. You can go to Ramsey trusted and check them out taxes. Uh, when it comes to your insurance, like having people in your corner that do this day in and day out in these niches in the financial industry, it is worth every penny. It really is because they're going to be able to advise your specific situation. And so that's one reason you were talking about them because they can sit down and actually run those numbers with you, Steve.

1:24:27Dr. John Delony:But bigger than running the numbers, they teach you how it all works and why they're doing what they're doing. And I called a year ago and said, I want to do this instead of this. And my person said, I think that's dumb, but you're the boss. And I hear the opposite of that so much. People are like, try to get talked out of it. And you're stupid. And here's why you're dumb. And it's almost like the investment advisor says, like, this is my money. And you're going to do what I say with your money, right? Instead of my smart investor pro walked alongside me. We talked about it. And so I like knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing and how things work.

1:25:07Rachel Cruze:And to continue to learn. I mean, we even sat with ours in January. and he was showing us this whole thing that I was like, I didn't even know that. You know what I mean? Like it was like tax loss harvesting here and then you can run that and put this here. And I'm like, is this all legal? And they're like, yes, it is. But I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I didn't know. Some of like they literally will, they sit there and teach you and show you. And then they're like, okay, would you want to do that? Or you want to keep it over here? It's, you know, but you, it's your money. It's your money. So you get to decide.

1:25:34Rachel Cruze:They're teachers. Yes. And someone needs to, you need to feel that positional power when you're sitting down with anybody that this is your life. And then they can advise you and teach you, but you get to finally choose what the final answer is.

1:25:48Dr. John Delony:But I love you being on top of it enough, Steve, to know like, hey, wait a minute. In this one little account that I opened myself, I got 22%. How come the one y 'all are managing that's supposed to take care of all of us forever got 8 %? That tells me something's fishy. Something's not right. And so your instincts are dead on brother.

1:26:07Rachel Cruze:Yep, absolutely. So thanks Steve. Yeah. But all you guys, you can go to Ramsey solutions.com and check out our smart investors there. Um, yeah. And anyone else to help you? Because that's, that is, um, one thing that again, when you try to do things on your own isolated and you try to be yourself to every single thing where you're not super knowledgeable, go learn, like get someone that you trust in your corner and learn about it. Like that is such an important part. Don't stay ignorant and just like, I'm going to just figure it out. Go and find someone who's going to teach you these things because it's so important to continue to grow and learn so that you can make great decisions for your family and your finances.

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1:28:19Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with John Deloney. We're answering your questions at 888-825-5225. All right, Starting us off from, ooh, Canada. Winnipeg, Canada. We got Anthony on the line. Hi, Anthony. Welcome to the show.

1:28:41Dr. John Delony:Hello. How are you?

1:28:42Rachel Cruze:Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

1:28:45Dr. John Delony:So my question is, how do I convince my wife to go through the baby steps when most of our financial struggles have been caused by me, like our debt? So she doesn't trust you with the finances? Yeah, she trusts me to kind of make the plan until it comes into crossing over to kind of making sacrifices on her end financially. We're not fully combined because of my debt. She doesn't want to fully combine our finances yet. Did you take out debts behind her back without her knowing? Not behind her back. A decent amount was from before we were married and then just ongoing. I don't know. Maybe it was not behind her back, but not fully informing her of the stuff that I was buying that was with debt, not with my cash.

1:29:32Rachel Cruze:So she was surprised to know the amount of debt that you have.

1:29:35Dr. John Delony:So behind her back. Yeah. She knew I had debt, but not how much. Yeah. So rebuilding trust always starts with somebody laying everything out on the table. And so even in this call, you're like, no, I wasn't behind her back. I just did it. And she didn't know about it and she thought it was cash, but it was really credit cards. Right. So it's, at some point you'll have to come to her and say the words, I, I didn't treat you with dignity. I didn't treat you honestly. I did stuff on my own without you and I'm sorry. And together we can work on moving forward. And that would take you requesting, will you give me a roadmap back to trust?

1:30:15Dr. John Delony:What does that look like? because I don't want to owe anybody any money anymore. I want our family to not have any anxiety and stress inside of the walls of our home. I want it to be the warmest, safest place from the craziness that's out in the world right now. Can you give me a roadmap back to what that would look like? And that's, I mean, it's AA language. It's submission. I have messed this up and I need to make this right. It's making amends, right? And short of that, it's going to feel like another scheme, another thing. I can't fully trust you. I'm going to do my thing. You do your thing.

1:30:48Rachel Cruze:Especially if you're asking her to make sacrifices on her end.

1:30:51Dr. John Delony:Yeah.

1:30:51Rachel Cruze:She's probably like, what?

1:30:52Dr. John Delony:Like, oh, you got to have all your fun with your credit cards, and now I have to sell my car. Right? And so that's a tough sell if it's— If there's not trust there. If there's not trust, and it's not from an emotional center that is, I messed up, and I want to make this right. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. She works very hard, makes some decent money, but doesn't have much to show for it because she's paying more than her fair share of her bills because I'm paying so much to my debts. It's hard.

1:31:21Rachel Cruze:Okay. How much do you make a year, Anthony?

1:31:25Dr. John Delony:I make$85 ,000. And what does she make? And she makes around$90 ,000.

1:31:31Rachel Cruze:Around$90 ,000. Okay. And how much debt do you have?

1:31:37Dr. John Delony:um so in total i have uh i have 10 000 on credit cards this is this is between the both of us approximately see i don't know exactly how much she has i know it's not a lot like she has a little bit but total is 10 000 on credit cards 10 000 online of credit and we did a debt consolidation loan last year so that was 22 000. okay um and then uh we owe my parents or i owe my parents$10 ,000 okay so about$52 ,000 and there's also she does have a car loan how much is that for oh that's$28 ,000$28 ,000 okay so what were you buying man I mean you know what it was uh basically I you know I was I'm making okay money now but before I wasn't and I was just you know buying eating out a lot and I need this for the house I'm just gonna buy it there I need this thing or want this thing.

1:32:30Dr. John Delony:Yeah, but you got to a point where you called your mom and asked for$10 ,000.

1:32:37Dr. John Delony:Yeah, that was all, and then that gets us into, we bought a house here earlier in the year and used kind of, I guess, from my parents to pay down some of our debts in order to buy this house. Was it a gift or was it a loan? It was a gift with there was no expectation that it would be paid back, but I want to pay it back here. I don't know if there was an understanding of it being a loan from their end. My understanding was...

1:33:09Rachel Cruze:But you just feel a conviction of, like, do you want to pay this back?

1:33:12Dr. John Delony:Yeah, I don't like it. It's looming over me, you know.

1:33:15Rachel Cruze:So, Anthony, so if you said she's covering most of the bills with her income, is most of your income able then to go to your debt? Because if that's the case, if y 'all can live off her income, and your income goes straight to all this debt? You guys have it paid off in a year. Well, I mean, you know, I don't know if it is most of her income on there.

1:33:37Dr. John Delony:I think she wants to save a lot because she does make a decent amount. I think we're actually relatively split on expenses here overall. But I think we need to cut expenses. But that's where I'm trying to get into the baby steps. But obviously it's hard to convince her with no trust on my end here.

1:33:55Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The rebuilding of trust is going to be key. And then once that starts to happen, and I don't know what she needs to see, if she needs to see you throwing a lot at this debt, you working an extra job to, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what that looks like for her, but understanding that's going to be really big. And then, you know, as you know, the quickest way to get out of debt when it comes to a married couple is that you throw both incomes in the center of the table and say, okay, how can we use as much of this to get out of debt as quickly as possible? What do we have to cut?

1:34:28Rachel Cruze:What are things that we're used to, like what you're saying, and remove those things. And until then, Anthony, it's just going to be a little bit of an uphill climb from a baby steps perspective. And so for some people, I don't know, John, what do you think? It's like the chicken and the egg. For some people, they jump into a new process of life, and with this specifically their money, and suddenly they feel more unity than ever, and it helps rebuild. It's a system at which these two people that were so on two different islands for the first time come together on something so vulnerable like money, and it helps their marriage.

1:35:04Rachel Cruze:Some people, I feel like, heal from things like what he's talking about, and then they get into the baby. Does that make sense? I don't know which is which.

1:35:12Dr. John Delony:Well, I think you have to have, I mean, Anthony, y 'all first have to agree. do y 'all want to do life together or not? And if y 'all agree on, yes, we want to do life together, then the next question is, what do we want that life to look like and feel like? And if y 'all can agree on, we want it to feel stress-free, we want it to feel warm, we want to feel connected, that's awesome. A way to do that, or the way to do that, is to put all of our money in one big pot. And we have agreed on safety feels like this much money in retirement and safety feels like saving this much every month and safety feels like not owing anybody anything, but you're, you're, you're trying to solve a problem like four rings up.

1:35:55Dr. John Delony:And so you're coming at her with another plan, another scheme, another, now I've got it figured out, honey. And she's watched so many times you not having a scheme. Y 'all got to get connected and say, do we want to do life together? And I think that for you starts with saying, I'm sorry, I did things on my own. This marriage was about me and your wife was a supporting actress to your life instead of both of y 'all were co-stars in this world that y 'all are co-creating. And then say, here's my dream for us, that we share everything. Vision for the future, dreams, kids, finances, all of it is us building a life together.

1:36:36Dr. John Delony:Would you go with me on that vision? And I think that's where you start the conversation. And then the baby steps is just a great path and a great tool to help that all come together.

1:37:07Dr. John Delony:Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. And the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollarBudget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free, so no excuses.

1:37:46Dr. John Delony:Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

1:38:08Rachel Cruze:Did you file an extension on your 2025 taxes? Well, the October 15th deadline is coming up quick, but the good news is you have a couple of options to get it handled. if your taxes are pretty straightforward Ramsey Smart Tax makes filing affordable and really simple and it has built-in support if you get stuck in it in the process so it Ramsey Smart Tax really is amazing you guys seriously if you don't have a complicated tax situation there's so many so many easy ways to do it through Ramsey Smart Tax but if your taxes are a little bit more overwhelming and complicated you may need a tax pro and nobody wants to face the IRS without backup.

1:38:48Rachel Cruze:So make sure you figure out which tax situation you're in. You can take our tax quiz at RamseySolutions.com slash tax quiz to decide, hey, can I just do Ramsey Smart Tax or do I need a tax pro in my corner? All right, let's go to Jim in Pittsburgh. Hi, Jim. Welcome to the show.

1:39:07Dr. John Delony:Hi, how are you doing?

1:39:09Rachel Cruze:Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

1:39:11Dr. John Delony:So I'm 28. I own a plumbing company. My household income is about$240 ,000 a year. My wife does not work. She stays home with the baby. And I'm in a good bit of debt, about$920 ,000. And this has come from, similar to Dave, a real estate investing spiel over the last three to four years. and about 800 of that is from real estate with a 25k car loan and then about 90k in business credit cards that are personally guaranteed and I have some equity in the real estate about 170k and a good household income but I just today had an offer fall through on a property and I'm just done with the lack of peace that this is bringing me so just wanted to call and kind of take your brain on advice for how to get out of this.

1:40:09Rachel Cruze:Oh, Jim, I'm so sorry. How old are your kids?

1:40:15Dr. John Delony:Just one, and he's one-year-old.

1:40:18Rachel Cruze:A year old, okay. How many properties is it?

1:40:24Dr. John Delony:It is four properties with about 17 units spread across those four.

1:40:31Rachel Cruze:Individual units, so you bought multifamily?

1:40:34Dr. John Delony:Yes.

1:40:35Rachel Cruze:Okay.

1:40:38Rachel Cruze:And where are you to the point of not being able to pay the payments?

1:40:44Dr. John Delony:I can pay the payments just fine, actually. It's just the stress of having that much leverage. Yes, exactly. Okay.

1:40:53Rachel Cruze:Well, that's a good thing.

1:40:55Dr. John Delony:Can you just sell them?

1:40:57Rachel Cruze:Yeah, that you're not behind. There's no major urgency of having to do a foreclosure or short sale. You can keep up the payments. So, yeah, what would it be like to put everything on the market? And even if you don't make a huge profit out of it, you get them out of your life.

1:41:12Dr. John Delony:Yeah, I'm talking to an agent this week about getting them listed. Great. And that's my first step there. But I just have some of that credit card debt as well. And I'd ideally like to walk away with, you know, some money to pay that off as well.

1:41:30Rachel Cruze:Sure. But if not, you're making$240 ,000. You could pay it off in a year, right? I mean, from the credit card debt perspective, that's not what's really scaring me. Because I think your income, you can cash flow some massive payments and get that out of the way. It's the almost million dollars of debt that's sitting there. And yeah, exactly what happened to Dave. But the banks just called all his notes pretty domino effect.

1:41:57Dr. John Delony:Yeah, so you're out ahead of Dave right now. You have a chance to get out of this. If you just say, dude, I was playing a dumb game for three or four years. I'm out of the game. I'm going to sell all this stuff. Even if you've calculated for yourself$170 ,000 in equity spread across these four properties, even if you walk away with$25 ,000, I would tell you that's a sole tax for your family that you don't owe anybody anything except for this credit card debt, and you can just move to knock that stuff out, man. Okay. I would not cling to the imaginary number that you've calculated that is this thing called equity across four properties that adds up to 170.

1:42:34Dr. John Delony:Because in your head, you've already spent that 170 on clearing all your debts, probably get a new car. Like you've already spent it. I wouldn't do that. I would just go and order. I'm going to list all these properties and get them sold as quickly as possible. Okay. All right.

1:42:47Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And if you can find a great realtor and you get a great price and there's equity, then that's great. Of course. But don't stay in the game, right? and keep this debt over your head for another year just to figure out, squeeze out any little dollar you can of equity. So get a great agent in your corner. If you go to ramsaysolutions.com slash real estates and find a great pro and work with it and get as much bang for the buck if you can in the shortest amount of time though, because to your point, Jim, you're 28, you got a one-year-old and having almost a million dollars, you know, over your head or no, yeah, almost a million dollars, gosh.

1:43:24Dr. John Delony:And 17 tenants rotating in and out. Yeah, that's a lot. It's a lot. And on the other side of it, like paint this picture for yourself. You owe nobody anything and you make a quarter million dollars and you have a one-year-old and your wife gets to stay at home because she wants to, not because she has to. Like, man, that's just, dude, that's just peace. That's just peace, man. And your whole family will wear that. So, man, that's what I'd be aiming for.

1:43:49Rachel Cruze:And what a gift that you're not in crisis mode, right, of having to do short sales or anything because that's always the risk, right? If something turns the corner or not in a good way. So, yep, I'd get out of it, Jim. I think that's a smart move long term. You're 28. Just call it your stupid decade of messing with debt and move forward.

1:44:08Dr. John Delony:I'll be done with forever.

1:44:09Rachel Cruze:Yep. All right, let's go to Delaware. We got Mark on the line. Hi, Mark. Welcome to the show.

1:44:14Dr. John Delony:Hey, Rachel. Hey, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Hey, quick question. Baby Step 7 here, and I'm stumped. I have about$1.5 million in investments. My wife and I have been big savers, big fans of Ramsey's organization for years. And we're with a big major firm, and they're now offering us to have wealth management. The wealth management is very Ramsey-esque, similar to what I'm doing, but they are more diversified in the sales pitch. I'm not sure if I should do this for our family to go into the wealth management. The wealth management is approximately 0.85 % a year. So it works out to be about 12 grand a year that they'll take out of the accounts.

1:44:53Dr. John Delony:And I really am a loss because I AI'd their proposal and what I've been doing for the last year, five years and 10 years. And last year I beat them a little bit and then five and 10, it was close. So I'm at a loss if I should take this advantage of this or not.

1:45:11Rachel Cruze:And what are they going to give you? What services do they provide in this?

1:45:15Dr. John Delony:Basically, it's the intangibles, whether you're talking to a live person or, you know, they have this wide array of, you know, different investment choices to put in there. And I don't know if it's worth the human asset where we've been plugging away and doing fine on our end. So you haven't used a financial, you know, advisor at any level.

1:45:36Rachel Cruze:You've just used a firm for a brokerage account. Is that right?

1:45:39Dr. John Delony:Yeah, yeah, exactly. I do my, I basically do domestic index funds. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't know if it's, I've never been pitched like this before. I said, whoa.

1:45:47Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Well, I'll say I, since I don't know the actual company and the exact, you know, specific people you're going to work with, I, let me recommend the philosophy overall, and then you can narrow down to figure out if this person fits that criteria. But we have long been fans of, yes, having a financial planner, financial investment professional in your corner, because I do think, yes, that they end up making you more in the long run. They're going to be able to see things that maybe you don't see, understand things about the industry that's ever-changing, that literally it's their full-time job to know.

1:46:24Rachel Cruze:And once you build that level of trust with someone over, especially a long period of time, right, where they have taught you things, They have advised you well. And when they're able to speak into your money because of, again, not only just the changing of the industry, but they just know things and understand and are educated on things that just the average person may not. And we even said in the last segment, truly, in January, we sat down with our SmartVestor Pro. And he taught me something. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize you could do that. Well, then, yeah, let's do this. And I would have never known that.

1:47:04Rachel Cruze:And so there's so many things.

1:47:06Dr. John Delony:Yes, yes. From products to just choices.

1:47:09Rachel Cruze:And you've done great, Mark, up until this point. And if you just lived your life and you just had money in that index fund, you're going to be fine. But I think you could honestly probably get more bang for your buck having somebody in your corner that's advising and showing you and teaching you. That is worth it. And you could look up in five years and be like, it's not worth it, right? It doesn't have to be a forever relationship if you don't want it to be, right? So, I don't know. There's just something powerful about having that human. And, again, it's someone that you trust. But check out our SmartVestor pros at RamseySolutions.com because those are ones that I can, with confidence, hand you over to.

1:47:54Dr. John Delony:Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:48:50Rachel Cruze:Up next, we have Kim in Las Vegas. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks. I'm really hopeful you guys can give me some brilliant ideas because I don't know what to do. Okay, what's going on?

1:49:03Dr. John Delony:We'll give you some ideas. I can't guarantee they're going to be brilliant, Kim.

1:49:07Rachel Cruze:We're going to try. We'll do our best. I'm thinking on it, so let's hope for brilliant.

1:49:11Dr. John Delony:My husband came clean to me about three years ago that he had a gambling addiction, and at that point he put us about$500 ,000 in debt.

1:49:18Rachel Cruze:Oh, wow.

1:49:19Dr. John Delony:Over the last three years, I thought things were getting better. but in the last year our debt has gone up over another 150 ,000 so we are well over a million dollars in debt now my overarching question is should we sell the house and I don't even know if that's by the time we pay off the house and the liens we're not even going to be able to touch our our really high interest credit card payments so I don't know what to do and we're drowning

1:49:45Rachel Cruze:I'm so sorry.

1:49:47Dr. John Delony:What a catastrophic mess. Oh, yeah. I guess let me ask this in reverse. Are you going to stay married?

1:50:01Dr. John Delony:Well, first off, Nevada, well, as a Christian, I don't believe in it. And I do love my husband, even though he's a complete idiot. And in Nevada, we would split the debt anyways. And if we were trying to support two households with our kids, it wouldn't make sense. It would be a dumb idea. Okay. Because there's a path that we walk where you're figuring out how to dig out of your mess, and then there's a path that we walk that y 'all are trying to figure out y 'all's mess. The biggest concern I have right here is I can't in good conscience tell you to sell your house right now because he sounds like a guy that would go gamble it all away.

1:50:40Rachel Cruze:Yeah, go pick it back up exactly where he started.

1:50:42Dr. John Delony:Well, here's the thing. And he's gambling in a different way now, let's say. He doesn't go to the casinos and gamble. But what he started was one of those cards-selling businesses. So he's buying packs of Pokemon cards and ripping them and trying to sell those cards and baseball cards and football cards. It's a different version of gambling. It is still gambling. So let me say it this way. I call this financial infidelity. and no relationship at all, especially a marriage, can make any sort of forward progress if there's not two things, safety and trust. And right now, your household has neither of those things because you don't trust the guy as far as you can see him and you shouldn't.

1:51:31Dr. John Delony:He's been untrustworthy and there is a radical safety component to this. Right? Like there's this huge debt, but I mean, you're incredibly unsafe. And so that's my big concern here. If you said, hey, he is in treatment, he is 90 days sober, he's 120 days sober.

1:51:59Rachel Cruze:Going to groups.

1:52:00Dr. John Delony:Yeah, he's got absolutely no way to access capital for the next year. And that's the arrangement that I've made with him and I want to be his spout. All that great, good. Then I would say, okay, let's get about selling big assets. Let's get about moving stuff around and all that. I don't hear that's even there yet. And it would be like handing, like if I had a buddy who's, I've got multiple friends in recovery. It would be like me handing them drink after drink. That would be unwise to hand somebody that much cash after selling your house. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I guess I do. How much is your house worth?

1:52:40Dr. John Delony:Um, Rob, it's about, uh,$750. And when I take what we owe on the house and all the liens, it's$598. Okay. So there's not a lot left after that. And then obviously we have to pay rents and all those things. Yeah.

1:52:56Rachel Cruze:Yeah. $150 towards it. So, Kim, what do you need from him to rebuild trust? What are things, because it sounds like you've just said, um, I love him. and it is what it is. And so he's going to keep doing what he's doing and he's kind of like getting his fill over here and all it's almost like he hasn't crashed and burned. Does he feel that? Like, I'm just curious where he is with all of it because I would pray in a situation. Yeah. Yeah.

1:53:30Dr. John Delony:Part of the problem is he, I mean, he has a lot of guilt and shame, but because of his old ways of all the years that he was hiding it from me. That's kind of what he just continues to do. I keep calling it. He robs Peter to pay Paul and he keeps just scooting stuff around behind my back. And we don't have really open, honest conversations because typically I just start crying and I get really angry and I panic and I freak out over everything. And I know he feels terrible and I would like to say he's willing to do whatever it's going to take. Although thus far, he hasn't shown it and he wants me to give him trust.

1:54:03Dr. John Delony:I told him I wanted to separate bank accounts and he freaked out on me. And I know I'm in the right, But I need a third party at some point to tell him he's an idiot and I'm in the right and I get to run the show now. But right. Here's the show you have to run right now. You have to get a separate bank account. I'm worried about your safety as a woman and as a mother.

1:54:29Rachel Cruze:With children. Yeah.

1:54:31Dr. John Delony:Because you can wake up tomorrow and have no rent money and no, I mean, no mortgage money and no grocery money. and y 'all are going to be out on the street. Yeah, well, we're just about there. Listen, so the thing you can control here, the one thing you've proven to yourself, and he's proven to you over and over, is you cannot control him. You can't scream at him. You can't cry. You can't be heartbroken. You can't be stunned. None of those things change him. The only person you can control here is you. And so that starts with you being an advocate for yourself. do i have rent money do i have food money period and he can freak out all he wants he's lost the right to this is a very financially abusive situation you're living in and i'm speaking this directly because i'm trying to shake you out of this prison that you that's wrapped around you right now okay it's incredibly unsafe faith.

1:55:30Dr. John Delony:And I've never had one of these situations that's this bad that you fully know how bad it really is. Yeah, well, actually, as of like eight o 'clock this morning, I found out there was another hundred thousand. That's what I'm saying. I promise you it's worse than you think it is. And so, again, you're looking at big picture stuff. I want you to start very small, four walls do me and my kids have a place to live food to eat water electricity and can we I get to and from work

1:56:05Rachel Cruze:do you work Kim? yeah how much do you make? I make about 215 okay from this day on from this day on your check from your work Kim needs to go in a separate account okay and that's not you being unreasonable that's not you being a bad wife that is you doing actually the healthy step of exactly what John is saying. You need to go down to the bank.

1:56:30Dr. John Delony:If you separate it, I guess part of my problem is if we separate it, do I just pay the bills that are under my name? Because all of our stuff is so tied up. He emptied my 401k at my job without me knowing. All this stuff is so mixed up. I don't even know what's under my name. I don't Even know what bills I would pay. Has he signed any?

1:56:52Rachel Cruze:Have you checked your credit report? Yeah, I keep an eye on it really closely now. Okay, so Equifax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can check it. So I would make sure.

1:57:01Dr. John Delony:And I would put a freeze on it. Yeah. So that way they have to contact you if somebody wants to take out a loan.

1:57:06Rachel Cruze:A credit card in your name or anything. Yes. Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. And so put a freeze on it.

1:57:11Dr. John Delony:And then I would go through and begin looking at what is in your name. and I know every state has different laws but like if there's credit cards out if there's 401k loans out with your name on them then yeah I would begin making a plan but all of this plan it's the mess is so big I'm worried about your safety right now if a guy will go behind his wife's back and empty out her retirement plan and then hold her sob with her commit to change and then go run another couple of hundred thousand dollars in the hole behind her back. Like there's.

1:57:47Rachel Cruze:And he needs healing, Kim. He desperately needs healing. Baseball cards, trading and Pokemon. Like that is, that is not healing. And so there's, there would be some conditions for me as a wife that you will go to treatment, that you will go to weekly. Like I need proof that you are on a journey of healing. Cause if not, your marriage is not a healthy place.

1:58:05Dr. John Delony:He has ended the marriage that you had. Now he gets to decide, does he want to be a part of rebuilding a new one? And you've got to give them that roadmap to trust. But that comes after you and your kids are safe.

1:58:35Dr. John Delony:You've heard from me and the Ramsey personalities for years, but nothing beats actually getting together in person. That's why we created the Live Like No One Else Cruise. For seven days, we're vacationing with you and 2 ,500 Ramsey people in the Western Caribbean. With live shows, us, new content, us, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or beyond, come spend the week with us next March. Choose your cabin at RamseySolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes.

1:59:25Rachel Cruze:Our scripture of the day is Hebrews 13, 16. Do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices, God is well pleased. Nathan Morris said the speed of your success is limited only by your dedication and what you're willing to sacrifice. All right, let's go to Brittany in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the show.

1:59:51Dr. John Delony:Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. So my husband and I, we would like some financial advice and parenting advice. Her 18-year-old daughter, she became pregnant when she was 17 and still in high school. And she is a go-getter. She graduated high school while maintaining a job. She found a job right out of high school in her profession of choice. She is doing awesome. That is so great. That's great. And hey, I've worked with teenagers in that situation, and that also means she had two parents that were by her side. So kudos to you two also. Yes, absolutely. We just want to support her all the way.

2:00:37Dr. John Delony:However, we have told her that we would support her financially with the baby. And the father is very much involved, which we appreciate and love. However, he does not have a job and cannot hold a job. So my husband and I came to the rough conclusion that we should probably cut her off financially so she could see what it is like to have that kind of work ethic in a partner. And I don't know. We're just struggling with that. Is that a right answer to do?

2:01:16Rachel Cruze:I mean, it kind of makes sense. scare the crap out of her so she doesn't marry him if he's not a if he won't provide i mean i get

2:01:25Dr. John Delony:the i know you got there i would i would go there except there's a baby involved absolutely and so that's where my hesitation we're having trouble with now that the father he is 20 years old so he's very capable um we're just having a uh and we did offer for them to live with us, which they did under the condition they both had jobs, which he could not fulfill. So we asked him to leave, which she followed him, and we expected that. But we just have a really tough time coming to support her financially when she has a partner that's capable of doing it.

2:02:14Rachel Cruze:John doesn't agree. And they're not married. They're not married. If it was married, I would absolutely have no question about, you know, cutting off the finances, but they're not married. So how, if they're not married, but he's very much. Because you're naturally, like you're enabling him not to get a job because he's attached to her and the money that you're giving her is part of how they're, you know, sustaining their life.

2:02:36Dr. John Delony:Yeah, and I guess the, I mean, there's going to be, I'm just thinking through this. And so I'm going to be thinking about it in real time. It's such a great question. I appreciate you letting me wrestle and me and Rachel wrestle through it with you. Anytime I want to make a statement, I always want to be as careful as I can with what are the second and third order impacts of my statement, right? Right. And so I'm a hundred. You've heard me say this a thousand times on the show. 18 year olds who want to make eight grown up decisions, then they've got to they've got to they got to understand the weight of adult decisions.

2:03:15Dr. John Delony:Right. My fear here is the baby would wear the cost because dad's not going to go get a job. He gave up free housing. That's not going to force him. So what's going to happen is he's going to stay at home with this baby and baby's going to be raised by that. And maybe that's the arrangement they set up, that he's going to be a stay-at-home dad, but your daughter's going to have to go get second, third, and fourth jobs. But at the end of the day, the baby wears the weight here. That's my fear. Yeah, that's ours too. We don't want the baby to go without. And we do not let that happen, but I do question their spending since they really don't have bills.

2:03:59Dr. John Delony:And she is making money. How are you supporting them? Well, right now we're paying her bills, such as her car payment, car insurance, her phone bill. Whenever she asks for money, which is quite frequently, we give it to her without question. Over the last two weeks, we gave her$200. Yeah. I would probably stop some of that. Last night, she just texted me and said she needed formula. Like, how do you say no to that? Right. I might say I will purchase formula. I will purchase diapers and I will have them sent to my grandbaby's apartment. Okay. Right. And that way I can be in diapers and Amazon.

2:04:41Rachel Cruze:You have an Amazon delivery, right? For the stuff the baby needs.

2:04:44Dr. John Delony:And that way you're not handing over cash. So you don't know how it's going to get spent and you don't, that kind of stuff. And again, I'm, I'm making this up in real time. If I had some time to think through it, I might come to a different conclusion, but But I want to make sure as grandparent that that little baby is not going to wear the cost of a 20-year-old dad who's just not doing anything. But then I'd sit down with my daughter and say, okay, at the end of you have 30 days or 60 days or whatever, this comes to an end. And we love you. And you and that baby are always welcome back in our house.

2:05:21He is not because he's making grown-up choices. Okay.

2:05:28Dr. John Delony:What I've seen in the past working with young teen moms is, A, a fear that they have nowhere to go. So I want to alleviate that for her. And B – Yes, absolutely. We feel that, yes. Right. And B is I want to make sure baby's okay. That's just a tricky balance that y 'all will navigate.

2:05:49Rachel Cruze:Do you know how much she makes, Brittany, a year?

2:05:51Dr. John Delony:What a mess.

2:05:53Rachel Cruze:I do not.

2:05:54Dr. John Delony:She just started, so it's probably pretty low. It is a job that requires clientele, so she does have to build that up. I would say not, I mean, she's 18, not probably much, but enough where she doesn't have bills, she should be okay.

2:06:12Rachel Cruze:So I wonder if there's like some, it almost feels, which feels funny saying about an 18-year-old, and she has a kid, right, and you feel like she should be an adult in the adult world. But I do wonder if there's a structure you help her in with when it comes to money of, hey, we're going to do every dollar and share an account. And I want to see your budget every month. And I want to I want to see where you're planning on spending that income. And and alongside that, because of that, then we will help and X, Y and Z will pay the car payment maybe or something for a few months. Right. To to see.

2:06:48Rachel Cruze:I just want her to be able to build skills and know how to do this well as an adult versus just being like go into the real world and figure it out. So I just wonder too if there's some type of structure you could put her in and as she does it that may feel too conditional. I don't know. But it's like as she does it it's like we will help you with this if you do a budget every month and track your transactions then we will help you here. But the moment she just is like I'm going to do whatever I want with my income and then runs out of money and can't buy formula for her kid, that's not going to work long term, right, with the tools that she's going to need.

2:07:24Rachel Cruze:So I'm wondering how you can support her in that way for her to learn how to do this while walking alongside her. And then eventually you let her fly and be free.

2:07:35Dr. John Delony:When you've sat down and you and your husband have sat down and talked with this with dad, why won't dad keep a job? Why won't dad get a job? we don't know does he does he get fired or does he quit and he's he um while they were living in our house for about three four months he got fired from one job for showing up too late too many times and then um he walked out of his second job that he had wow and we we continued to let him

2:08:08Rachel Cruze:live with us for a couple weeks and then we're finally like okay we it's not working out did that strain and the relationship with your daughter and you when that happens when he moved out

2:08:19Dr. John Delony:um no she understood they i mean you know she was pregnant for a long time so we we already had this kind of planned and we already went over everything with them the conditions and and so she knew that was part of the conditions. But no, I think our relationship is fine but she did move out

2:08:42Rachel Cruze:to his house. Yeah, yeah.

2:08:45Dr. John Delony:So yeah, I like Rachel's plan for scaffolding as the nerds call it. Like, I'm going to walk alongside you and I will support you as much as you will follow the plan I'm going to put in front of you. But make sure that baby's okay.

2:08:59Rachel Cruze:Yep, thanks for the call, Brittany. All right, well, this concludes this hour of the show. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.