Gambling with Your Future Is a Losing Game

24:46Dave Ramsey:Okay. And what were you making when you came out of college? $68 ,500. So your income has doubled in seven years. Yes, sir. So let's visit seven years from today then, and let's say that your income doubled, which really wouldn't be that unusual in your world, okay? and seven years from today your house would easily be paid for because it'll probably be done in about four years and seven years from today you've continued to put 15 % aside. At that point, your house paid for, it's going to be very easy to do what you're talking about without abandoning the retirement saving. So I'm going to delay your – if I were in your shoes, I would delay what you're requesting for four years.

25:42Dave Ramsey:And then seven years from today, you'll have a nice side fund, a paid-for house, and a fully funded rocking retirement plan that has probably about$700 ,000 in it. So I'm going to guess and say roughly five years from today, you're going to have a net worth of$1 million with what I'm describing. And because house would be paid for, you're already at$250 ,000. at seven at in the 250 in seven years if it's in good mutual funds it'll be 500 plus you're going to be adding to it so you're going to be at 500 there the house can be paid for it's be worth 500 you're going to be a millionaire in about five years give or take and um that's pretty cool uh and when that house gets paid for what you can't you your mind your intellect can grasp it right now but you really can't your emotions can't about the time your house has gets paid for now you're making more money and you have zero bills the ability to step on the gas and build that side fund really fast it's going to happen and because i've watched it over the years and i've done it and so um because you reach what we call the pinnacle point where you reach the top of the hill and now you put your hands up on the handlebars and coast down the other side your money's now making more money than you make and that's where you're you're going to be at that point, you're going to turn the corner there.

27:04Dave Ramsey:So if I'm you, I'm going to say no, not today. But I think it's a great question and a great target. But it's probably going to be about four years before you get there when the house gets paid off. And then when the house gets paid off, you're going to use that money that you've been dumping on baby step six to build your side fund with. That's exactly what my wife and I did, Dave. You know, very similar story to our friend here. And we just knocked the mortgage out fast in a few years. And then we freed up that mortgage payment to be able to invest. And once you hit that baby step seven, you can invest beyond the 15%.

27:36So still max out the retirement accounts to go do that. But even if you build the side pot, like Dave's talking about, I crunched some numbers to give you some hope here from 35 to 55. So that's 20 years, you're still far from retirement, you would have 1.5 million if you took 2000 bucks and just threw it in a non retirement account on the side, once that house is paid off. That's your side fund is a million and a half. That's not even touching your actual retirement nest egg. And so like Dave said, you can build it pretty quickly. That's two grand a month. If you never got a raise, you just kept that two grand a month going 24 grand a year into a side account.

28:08And that's the normal rate of return 10%. It's what we've seen in the US stock market. I've collapsed it into some other things, but when we first paid off our house, it was$1 ,500,$1 ,600 or whatever a long time ago.

28:21Dave Ramsey:And I just rounded it to$2 ,500, and I opened a fresh mutual fund with$2 ,500 just to see what paying yourself a house payment turns into. I just wanted to emotionally experience it. How fast that account became a million dollars blew my mind. Wow. Just paying myself a house payment. Because there's no interest in only the one you're making from compound growth. Yeah. But you're not paying interest. Because the other thing is you're so used to already paying a house payment. And I was paying extra on the house, obviously. And so I paid it off. And so I just took$1 ,500, rounded it to$2 ,500, put an automatic draft on the checking account, just like I was still making a payment.

28:56Dave Ramsey:I only paid it myself in a mutual fund. And how fast that mutual fund became a million bucks was mind-blowing. Kayla is in Texas. Hi, Kayla. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I am supposed to receive inheritance from my grandparents. My grandma, unfortunately, has been gone for two and a half years now. My uncle, the trustee, hasn't distributed anything. And so I have two questions. The one is, what's a respectful way to approach him of when he's going to distribute the money? And my second question is, once he does, what is the best way to utilize that money to pay off the debt and become financially more healthy?

29:40Wow.

29:40Dave Ramsey:How old are you? 35. Okay. And your parents are gone? My dad is, but it's not my dad's parents that's gone. It's my mom. Okay. So your mom's alive? Oh, no. I'm sorry. I misunderstood you. My mother is gone, but my dad is alive. Okay, but it's your mother's brother, that's the uncle? Yes, correct. Okay, okay. And you said you're how old again? 35. Okay, all right. Are you in the same town with him? I am not. He's in Kansas. I'm in Texas. Okay, all right. Well, do you have any idea what you're supposed to be receiving in a dollar amount? I don't know the dollar amount. They had a trust set up. I know that the house is in the trust, and they sold the house.

30:40He sold the house in April for$450 ,000. My grandparents had a very similar mindset to you when it came to money where they only bought something.

30:50Dave Ramsey:I mean, if you just called him up and said, hey, Unc, I'm just checking in. I know you've got all this stress and everybody bothering you about this, and I don't want to be a problem to you, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my bills and all. Do you have any idea roughly what the timeline is? And see what he says. Would that be okay? So the only thing that I worry about, my grandparents and my uncle are very touchy when it came to money, and I just didn't want to be perceived as greedy. It's not greedy. It's calling up and finding out what's going on. They named you. Right?

31:26In the will and the trust, you're named to be the, you're inheriting this money. It's not greed. It's just what's owed. I'm just asking for an update. Okay. It's not greedy.

31:36Dave Ramsey:The decision on greedy has already been made. I'm getting the money. All I want is an update. And, you know, that's not. If that doesn't work, you can go with an attorney route and formal demand letters and probate and all that. But I wouldn't go there. I wouldn't go there if you don't have to. Yeah. Just say, hey, I need an update. And if he won't give you one, he's a smart aleck or something, then hire an attorney and have them contact.

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33:25Dave Ramsey:Sarah is in North Carolina. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm fine. How about you, Phil? Better than I deserve. What's up? Uh, okay. So I am 36. I have three children with, um, the man that I've been married to for 18 years. Um, my mother passed away back in 2013 and that was the only kind of any family whatsoever that I had. So, um, um, I'm not proud of the fact, but it is a very codependent situation, if you will. I was a stay-at-home mom until my son started school. He's 10, and he started fifth grade this year. I spoke with my husband about two years ago. We brought up the subject of needing marriage counseling, things like that.

34:12I discussed with him that I was just not happy with the way that things were and that I thought we needed to speak with a lawyer or something like that.

34:23He's a mechanic. I will say that. And ever since we had that conversation about two years ago, I've had three vehicles that have torn up and that has cost me work. And he's the only person that has worked on these vehicles. He's the only person that's maintenanced them or that's fixed them, if anything, has torn up. He gets very upset. I guess you could say I'm kind of confused about whether I'm in an abusive relationship or not because he's not physical with me. but he's kind of taking my resources away in an effort to keep me here instead of trying to work through something for our children so that we can separate and give them a more peaceful environment.

35:05And financially and resource-wise, I'm stuck. He's all that I have, and I just don't know where to start trying to get me to my children. How much do you earn? I don't earn anything right now. Now, I don't have the vehicle that I have right now just got fixed two weeks ago. And that is not, I mean, that's a 2006 Nissan Maxima. That's not anything that's dependable itself, even though it's been fixed. When I say taking resources away, I very much so mean like he's the one that works. He gets paid. He gives me money on Cash App each week that I take, you know, to the store and buy what we need for the house and for the kids and stuff.

35:47But the money that I get is what he gives me. And if I go anywhere, he knows where I go. Like I said, every time that I've had a job, I was making about twenty five dollars an hour. I do private care nursing and I've been doing that off and on for about six years. But like I said, as soon as I brought up the situation of, you know, I think we need to separate. There started becoming a lot of problems, especially with my transportation back and forth to work. Are you saying he's like messing with your car? I don't understand. Yes. Like he's actively breaking your car so you can't drive?

36:24Dave Ramsey:How old are your children, baby?

36:30Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry. How old are your babies?

36:37Our youngest, he'll be 11 on the 29th. And then we've got one that'll be 16 on the 24th. and then our oldest, she graduates this year. She's 17. She turns 18 in February. Okay.

36:51Dave Ramsey:All right. And it's very – he's a bit of a bully sometimes about it. He makes it very clear that he doesn't want me going anywhere. Let me help you. Stop. Stop. I'll help you. Stop. This is an abusive relationship. Okay. Okay, anytime someone calls up and says, my spouse is tampering with my car, and he's bullying, and he's controlling, and he's only giving me a few dollars, this is an abusive relationship. You are in an abusive relationship. Do you hear me? Okay. So you need to get on the phone and contact a local pastor there in your town and tell them you need some help, and you need to get some help, and you need to do some help to get new housing and get a new life set up.

37:41Dave Ramsey:This is not, this is not negotiable. That I'm not trying to make a, I mean, the financial situation. Honey, honey, this is sick. Don't make excuses. This is a mess. It's sick and you know it. He's tampering with your car. You just said, hello, somebody is going to die. This is sick. This is wrong. Okay? You need to get some help, and you need to get some distance. Only chance this marriage heals is for him to get some help, and the only chance that happens is if he thinks you're gone because you're gone. Yeah, there's no healing that. It's just the resources are not. No, that's what I'm telling you.

38:29Dave Ramsey:I want you to get on the phone. I want you to go see it, pick out a church that's a good large church in that area. Go sit down with their team, with their team of counselors, their team of pastors, and tell them you don't have any resources and you're in this situation that's dangerous and they will help you. You've not been hit, so I don't know if a domestic violence shelter will take you or not, but you could contact one of those as well. Okay. But this is toxic, it's wrong, and it's evil. if you were my little sister i would be over there packing your stuff right now and loading your car up while i argued with you because you kept crawl fishing on me and i mean like he knows i'm not gonna argue with you verbalizes that he verbalizes like that they're not going to do anything because he doesn't put his hands on well they i don't know who they are but they are a divorce attorney and he doesn't have his wife and kids anymore that's who they are and you go get a job and support yourself and your kid yeah and you can do that you know that's the goal and that's where he's trying to keep you from like no kidding Bernie's very no kidding the cheapest I've heard is four thousand dollars so you don't have to convince me I'm already convinced didn't take me but a minute and a half now you're convincing yourself are you going to call a pastor today or not yes today girl yes okay it's gone on long enough As a matter of fact, it's gone on too long.

39:56Dave Ramsey:Thank you. The first time somebody screws with your car, that's endgame. We're done. We're done. Okay. This is out-of-control behavior. You're done. Okay. All right, so I'm going to put you on hold, and Kelly's going to get your numbers and stuff, and we're going to follow up. And if you don't call a pastor, I'm going to start calling people around you. Okay. You're going to do this. Okay. Because this is not safe for you, girl. You're one step from getting smacked. You're one step from getting your nose broke. You're right. This fuse is really short. I've done this for a long, long time, and I know what I'm doing.

40:39Dave Ramsey:So you have got to get some help. This guy might be redeemable, but today we're not having that discussion. He's done too many things in this one conversation for you to stay in this house. you need to get out of there and then from that separation point if y 'all want to work on your marriage and he wants to work on his behavior and start being a real man instead of a little twerp then uh then we can talk about this but right now your husband's a twerp and if he doesn't like that he can call me i'll be happy to talk to him about it i'm not afraid of him i can tell you that so kelly you pick up i want her name and phone number and then get with the church team and line her up with a couple of pastors and let's get some help in this girl's life um i think she's gonna do it i don't know i hope we convinced her that it's a desperate enough situation and i would i would start recording some of these conversations well he said they they're never gonna i mean at least have some documentation to go here's what's going on yeah i don't even need that i'm just gone i'm not negotiating with this there's not it's not we're not having a discussion about what happened.

41:45Dave Ramsey:It happened. Okay. And so, um, you know, one of the, um,

41:55Dave Ramsey:one of the signs that you're dealing with evil is there's confusion. If there's confusion in the room and there's like, I know I said this and this person is looking at me saying, I did not say it. I know it did it. I went back and wrote it down. I know it happened. And then I'm looking at them later and they're gaslighting, acting like it didn't happen. Now you know you're dealing with evil because evil always confuses. Truth is always clear and crystal clear and knowledgeable. But evil's always got confusion. There's always this circular thing. And you can hear it even in her conversation with herself, how circular it is.

42:32Dave Ramsey:It just keeps coming back around again. I don't want to come back around through it again. I just want to leave it. The disclaimers, the excuses. Get out. Get out. Screw my car. Unbelievable. You little twerp.

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44:15Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, a big hit on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Michael's in Texas. Hey, Michael, what's up? Hi, Michael. Hi, sorry. Hi, Dave. So I'm just, I got a lot of debt left over from a wedding I had four months ago. And my wife has just recently lost her job, also two months ago.

45:02And I've been watching your show, trying to get a gauge on how I can solve this. So far, I've sold my car, my Toyota Vola that I got last year. I was paying$400 a month for it. Instead, I bought a 2013 Dodge Dart outright, and that would just be cheaper to have that with no payments and just insurance on that instead of having$400. I like it.

45:30Dave Ramsey:How much debt have you got, Michael? Well, total, I have$25 ,000 from credit card debt and$10 ,000 for student loans and$8 ,000 or$7 ,500 on my wife's car that has given us some issues. And what do you make? Three months ago. I make$42 ,000 a year. And what was she making before she got fired? Um, she didn't. She didn't make too much. She was a server. Um, she made maybe$1 ,200 a month. Okay. So what's she going to do with her life? Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. Um, You need to do it now. It's been two months. I do agree. Uh, she's been looking. She's, Could she not pick up another serving job in the meantime?

46:26And places are desperate for help. That's what we're looking at. She's applied to so many jobs. She's only had three interviews uh over the past two months she's i mean she was applying for jobs even before she got fired um and so far nothing she's applied to gas stations did she go to school or was it just you uh no sir so i graduated my associate she's she's been to school um she's just not i guess she called it not academically inclined i'm just saying does she have a degree in something and

46:59Dave Ramsey:And what was that? No, sir. Okay. And your associates is in what? I have an associate of science. Okay. And you guys are what, 23? We're both 21. Oh, okay. Pretty good guess. Almost like I've done this. Okay. And all right, you're 21 years old. You've been married four months? Yes, sir. You put$25 ,000 on a credit card, and she was a server, and you're making$40 ,000. in. So you wised up and sold your car. That's smart. So what you have is an income problem and income comes from work. Right. She needs to do some. I don't want to hear any more excuses. This is bull crap. You can't get a job in this economy.

47:45Dave Ramsey:It's bull crap. Okay. As far as I know, she can't even get unemployment right now. Honey, you don't need unemployment. You need a job. She's going to work this week. What city are you in in Texas? In Denison. It's north of Dallas. Yeah. I mean, you can't find a server job in Dallas freaking Texas. Something wrong, man. I mean, seriously. So your all's problem is income, mathematically. You don't make much, and one of you isn't doing anything. and you know on the heels of i just spent 25 000 on a wedding so the answer you know you the the uh the punishment for that is a lot of hard work for that dumb decision buying a wedding you couldn't afford okay and so you get you get your payback is hard work and both of you need to be working 50, 60 hours a week right now.

48:47Dave Ramsey:Quit going out to eat, quit partying, turn off freaking Netflix and work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. That's where money comes from. The old Dave quote has never applied more. The only time you should be seeing the inside of a restaurant is if you're working there. This one applies. That one actually works really well with this particular call. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. And this is very, very, very doable, but it all has to do with ambition motivation and so when you tell me i'm not academically inclined okay then let's get in the trades let's get in something that you can do if you don't want to do academics that's fine but if but i'm hearing i'm not very ambitious and don't like to work much that's what i heard when she said that now i may be being too hard on her but i do know the facts are that it's been two months and she ain't got a job you know how long i would go without a job about a minute and a half.

49:43Dave Ramsey:You know, go down to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. They will pay you to blow leaves. You know, I mean, you there is no way that I'm going to be unemployed more than about the 45 seconds. I have the ability to make money and you do, too. So that's this is the equation. So my grandmother used to say is a great place to go when you're broke to work. And so that's what we're doing here. And I know you're newlyweds and I know this is fun. I know you're 21, but you're not children anymore. Now we're acting like adults and we're doing adult games and we get adult prizes and$25 ,000 worth of credit card debt for the wedding.

50:26Dave Ramsey:You don't have any choices. You're working. So that's, you know, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but I don't want to be unclear either. I want to love you enough to tell you the truth. If you were my kid, this is exactly what I'd be telling you. It's a really simple equation. And then once you're working and making money all the time, then start thinking about how I can have a career where I make a lot of money because I specialize in something. I learn something. I do a craft. I do take a class, a certification or whatever, and go be whatever that is. But the first step is survival. Then we self-actualize.

51:07And when I was exactly his age, making about exactly the same money, I had three extra side hustles on top of that to try to clear the debt, get myself to some good financial footing. So both of you are going to be working a whole lot for a short season. We're not talking five years. You can clean this up.

51:22Dave Ramsey:This is not the rest of your life, but you do have to get this in a zone and this focused intensity is needed right here. And, you know, it's real easy to get caught up in what your friends are doing or the family's doing or everybody's got an opinion. No, go to work. Just get up, leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. It is that simple. And that's exactly what both of you need. And you need an extra job, Michael. And if you want some ideas, you can jump on to RamseySolutions.com slash side hustle. We've got a quiz there. I would do that on top of your full-time jobs that you're going to have.

51:59That's what will get you there. You're not going to have two years. You make 80 grand, you can throw 25 grand a year at this debt. It's gone in two years. That's the math. But you got to get that income up.

52:09Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, they're used to living on nothing. So really could just probably do it in about a year. If you make 80 grand. Keep your expenses real low, get the income real high. Beans and rice, rice and beans. You don't really need any hobbies or anything because you're just going to be working. You got no one to impress. Yeah. You don't need Netflix. You can't got time to watch it. You're going to be, if you're not sleeping, you're going to be working. And that, that is the equation. And again, this is two years and then you get your career jive and the two of you figure out what you're going to do with your lives.

52:39Dave Ramsey:And we move into that. But, um, yeah, let's go be somebody, dude.

53:04Dave Ramsey:We'll be right back.

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54:05Dave Ramsey:And right now, if you're leading a business doing more than a million dollars in annual revenue, download NetSuite's free ebook, Navigating Global Trade, Three Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com slash ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash ramsey.

54:33Dave Ramsey:Well, buying or selling a house is a big deal, and there's a lot of drama out there about real estate right now. When you're in the middle of trauma or drama, let me help you with something. Dr. John Deloney says facts are your friends. You can cut through all the opinions of your broke in-laws. you can cut through all the opinions of people on tic tac and instagram with actual facts and then based on facts you make good wise decisions not based on hyperbole and drama so we'll help you with that we have facts ma 'am just the facts on the u.s housing market trends and you can get them at ramsey solutions.com slash market and you can keep up with what the median house prices are really doing what number of listings are out there for real and what interest rates are for real ramseysolutions.com slash market or you can click the notes and or click in the show notes and uh drop right straight into it madeline is in virginia hi madeline how are you hi i'm doing okay how are you better than i deserve what's up yes um so about five months ago in march um my husband and our six-year-old son went on a fishing at the pier near our home, just like a regular time.

55:47And unfortunately, this time they did not make it back home. My baby fell off the pier while fishing, catching a fish. My husband went after him, and the river conditions just took them. Oh, my God.

56:01Dave Ramsey:I'm so sorry. Thank you. How horrible. So I'm a widow. My husband was only 37. I was 36. My birthday passed in June. And we have another son who just turned three on Friday. And as you can probably imagine, I'm just lost. I can imagine. I'm so sorry. Thank you. That's terrible. Yeah. So I don't want to hold you guys up too long. I know you have other callers. But, yeah, I just don't know what to do financially. And I want to make wise decisions. I want to get myself some help because every day I just want to crawl in a hole. But our youngest baby does not let me. He gets me on the bed. You know, he was our blessing from God there.

56:56It just helped me keep going even when I just don't feel up to it. So, you know, losing my husband, there's a lot of logistics and stuff like that that I am still working through. I haven't even really been able to work on my grief like I would like to. But, yeah. So I was a stay-at-home mom. Essentially, we have a business, and my husband was also an educator. What was the business? Our business, the main thing that we offer is education support. My husband is a special education teacher and also basketball training. We kind of did both under the business, but he was, you know, the primary person on it.

57:37Dave Ramsey:So there's not really a business. it was a side hustle because it's not something you can sell, right? It's possible. I never sat down to go over that, but I would say the business kind of helped me bring an income that I was missing from being at home. So it brought in a pretty decent income. Yeah, but without him there to do it, do you have that idea? Yeah, exactly. I have someone that's been helping me, but I'm just mentally in a space where I can't even market. I can't do the things I need to do to keep the business afloat. Sometimes I think I can, and then I just feel like I'm not. Yeah, you can't think clearly right now.

58:17Yeah, that's normal. How have you survived the last five months covering the bills?

58:26Just some monies that we have. With him being an educator, they did pay out a prorated amount of the rest of his salary. You guys have any debt? Yes, we do have debt. So the house, the mortgage is his name. I'm on the deed. That doesn't matter. You get the house. It doesn't matter.

58:51Dave Ramsey:The mortgage company won't do a thing. You just have to pay the mortgage is all. How much is the monthly mortgage? So it's$35.30 roughly a month. And then we do have a HELOC. It's at an 8.5%. was roughly$550 to$650 per month. So$4 ,000 a month. $4 ,000. Yeah, we're a little over$41 ,000. What was your household income? Before it passed, we were, because of the business fluctuating, we were close to$200 ,000 to a little over$200 ,000. All right. So the business was making a lot of money then. Okay. It was making good money. It fluctuated with me being home. We had our youngest, I had him in 2022.

59:36Dave Ramsey:Do you have the ability to operate this business in some way long term? That is my goal. I did have someone step in to help another friend who's an educator, and I've kind of been outsourcing our clients. But, you know, they were so tied to my husband. He's just an amazing man and teacher. And, yeah, so she's trying to help me, but I have to do my part, too, which has been hard. Yeah. And I have to bring in new business. That was what I did for the business. I brought in the business. Okay. And my husband, this past year, he had been teaching. That answers my question. Did you have life insurance?

1:00:16Yes, we did have life insurance.

1:00:17Dave Ramsey:How much? So between the life insurance and some gifts, because some neighbors did a ghost on me for us, it's roughly$500 ,000. Good news. Okay. And how much do you owe on your home? $588 ,000. Okay. 585 about less, and on the HELOC, about 73 ,000. So here's what we're going to try to do, okay? I always recommend if we can figure out a way for you to eat that you don't do any big decisions for six months. It takes that long to breathe again. It's been five, but I mean, and it's still really raw, okay? But the waves of grief catch you off balance. You don't know when they're going to hit. And there's some days, like you said, you don't feel like getting out of bed, but you have to.

1:01:12Dave Ramsey:You've got a three-year-old. You've got a business. And so these are two things that are dragging you out. So, yeah, so number one goal for long-term sustainability for you and the three-year-old is for you to work your way through this grief. and that's probably going to require you spend some time sitting with someone and it's also going to require that you keep a really good community around you of people that you can call and just cry with. And that can be people at your church, your pastor. It could be these neighbors that stepped up to help you. And there's no shame in that. And Dr. Deloney always says that some of the research they have on grieving says grief demands a witness.

1:01:57Dave Ramsey:it is most effectively done in community, not alone. And so I want you to plug in and work on you because you're actually the secret sauce of your future, not any of this other stuff. And then as you're doing that, what I want you to do is give that church. And are you in a good church there? I am actually the Sunday before the accident. My husband completed his membership class at the church we've been attending. Perfect. So that church's job is to take care of widows and orphans. It's in the book. Yeah. Okay. That's their job. Let them do their job by asking for community, asking for support.

1:02:51Dave Ramsey:I don't think you need any money. I think you're okay. Okay. Well, can I speak to that just a sec? Sure. I don't want to. It's obviously, I mean, it's a good amount. Thank God this gave us this blessing. I know we can't live off of it, and this is double grief for me. This is, you know, leaving my child and my husband at the same time. I just don't know mentally where I'm going to be. I don't want to make the wrong decisions. I don't want you to either. I want you to make no decision right now. I want you to take out just enough to barely eat and barely pay the house payment and keep this business running as best you can and go through the healing process.

1:03:30Dave Ramsey:Give yourself some room, girl. You deserve it. This is a tragedy. It's a trauma. Okay? It's normal human behavior to hurt in this. And here's what we're going to do, okay? I'm going to line you up. Kelly's going to pick up. and we're going to line you up with a Ramsey coach and they'll coordinate with your church and it's our gift. It's not going to cost you a thing and they're going to walk you through the financial stuff of exactly what to do. But we've got to work through the grief process and you've got to give yourself the grace to do that. You deserve it. You've been through the most horrible thing imaginable.

1:04:04Dave Ramsey:I'm so sorry. You hang on, kiddo. We're going to walk with you.

1:04:19Thank you.

1:04:42Dave Ramsey:Thanks for being with us, America. We're glad you're here. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. George, when's your next one? I believe it's next week. Oh, there we go. There's always another one around the corner, and they've been so fun. The attendance has been awesome, and the live Q &A is my favorite part, of course, getting to interact with the people. Yep, live Q &A. It's free. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, and you're going to find, on average,$9 ,560 worth of margin.

1:05:17Dave Ramsey:That's the average person putting this together. That's what we see. So sign up for free. Did we mention that this is free? It's a free every dollar training. And if you do it quickly, you might be in Georgia's group next week. Sign up for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. All right. Cassidy is in Canada. Hi, Cassidy. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have a question about work and my finances. So I have an undergraduate degree in nursing that took four years, a medical degree that took four years, and now I'm in residency. Two years through my residency, I have three years to go.

1:05:56When I finished medical school, I had a total, including my mortgage, of$484 ,000 of debt.

1:06:03Dave Ramsey:How much of that is mortgage and how much of that is med school? $160 ,000 was mortgage and$300 ,000 was student loans, and then I had$20 ,000 in car loans. so that was two years ago i when i started residency i wanted to start paying down my debt quickly so i renewed a nursing license um so now i work about my maximum number of hours i can legally work a week as a resident is 90 and then i pick up hours as a nurse besides that and i've been doing well with the debt i think um i've saved up my thousand dollars for baby step and now I'm down from a total of$484 ,000 of debt to$403 ,000 of debt in a year.

1:06:48Way to go.

1:06:49Dave Ramsey:Wow. Thank you. That's impressive. So what are you making in the residency? What are you getting paid? $50? I bring home$48 a year. And good. And the side gig on nursing, what's it producing? I work, you know, it depends on how busy I am as a resident, but somewhere between$700 to$1 ,500 every two weeks. depending on how many shifts I can get. Okay, so$1 ,500 to$3 ,000 a month. So, you know,$30 ,000 on top of your$50 ,000. So you're probably averaging about$80 ,000. Okay, and you paid down. Wow, you are really killing it. You are working like a maniac, girl. I'm proud of you. Well, thank you. That's where my question comes in.

1:07:31So that might be a little bit of the issue or maybe not. So I was a previously very healthy person. In the first two years of residency, See, I've actually been off with pneumonia a couple times in the last six months. And, you know, I don't think doctors are great with money, so I don't necessarily heed their advice. But a number of them have been saying, you know, you should slow down, you shouldn't work so much. We think it's kind of dragging you out a little bit, and you're going to pay it all off when you finish residency in three years anyway. But I don't really know if that's true.

1:08:01Dave Ramsey:It is true. And so here's the thing. if you kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs you then it's kind of uh you know you're not what you're what you're entering into is not sustainable in other words if you are truly uh burning yourself up to the point that it's affecting your health then you do need to dial it back and you're the best person to decide if that's really the cause of all that it sounds like it could be because your your number of hours is enormous and i believe in hard work I'm the guy yelling at everybody to go hard work, right? But, I mean, you're a beast, girl. I mean, it's amazing.

1:08:38But you're like sprinting, and it's a marathon.

1:08:40Dave Ramsey:And so you've got a ways to go. You do really believe that it is affecting your health, don't you?

1:08:50I don't know. I try not to, like, think about it too much. I'm not talking about emotionally.

1:08:54Dave Ramsey:I'm talking about intellectually. You're a freaking doctor. Tell me, doc, is this girl burning herself up, and is it causing her to get pneumonia because of her fatigue level? Perhaps. Okay. Yes. Yeah, I think perhaps is a fair answer. I'm not a doc, but that would be my answer. So, yeah, I think I'm going to dial it back far enough that I quit having fatigue-based health problems. So would you, cutting back on this? I don't know that that's all the way back to residency, but, you know, you need to shave 10%, 15%, 20 % off of this thing on the nursing side and if that slows down your get out of debt plan and you're you're not going to make it out of debt before you finish residency anyway no no matter what no whether you stay what you're doing or whether you dial it back so it's just a matter of how much is going to be there when you finish that's the only question so in that sense the docs are correct i agree don't take it financial advice from doctors they're the only thing worse is football players oh god I don't manage your money, right?

1:09:59Dave Ramsey:So it's like, but the. The grade is spending it. Yeah. So, yeah, I. Yeah. But I do think you know your body and you know the medical charts and some of the stuff you're getting is fatigue based. You're just burning up every piece of protein in your body and there's nothing left to fight anything. Does that sound right? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Yeah. I want you to dial back. I'm with you. And, you know, so in other words, you got if you end up with fifty thousand dollars more to deal with after residency, but you retain your health, we're going to call that a win. OK, all right. And you're not going further into debt, right?

1:10:40You're able to cover all of your bills and make minimum payments on the debts with your residency take home pay. Yes, the interest on the debt is quite high, but I am able to pay the interest. And then, like, I've, you know, I've knocked it back.

1:10:54Dave Ramsey:Yeah, but in terms of you're not – he's saying you're not borrowing money for student loans anymore. No, I am not. That game's over. You're not borrowing money to live either. We're off the other side of this, yeah. No. When I finish medical school, I start borrowing money. I'm 27. Wow. Okay. Well, when you're 37, you're going to look back and say this was worth it because you paid a price to win, and you're winning. Okay? But let's do it in a way that you survive it. Yeah. Yeah. All the signs indicate that you're going to pay off this debt very aggressively once you're out of residency. And so to Dave's point, delaying it by a tiny bit so that you survive it, I would be doing that.

1:11:33That's a good tradeoff.

1:11:34Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I think it is. And I think the docs were giving you good advice in that method. But not kick the whole can down the road, but kick a smaller can down the road than you were going to. And so, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that at all because you are going to get there. and when you come out of this, your income is going to be substantial and you'll probably get a good signing bonus now too, which will knock off a bunch of this as well. I'd hire her. She's sharp. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, not only is she sharp, she's not afraid of work. Hello. And that seems to be a thing. All right, Frank is with us.

1:12:08Dave Ramsey:Frank's in Florida. How are you, Frank? I'm doing great. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, Dave. So I got a question I've been considering calling you for about six months on. I'm sure you're very familiar with the industry that we do. My question to you is, how do you decide if you should switch out of a high-paying job that your heart isn't really fully in or don't morally agree with all the way? So specifically, the company I'm with now, we do hard money loans for real estate investors, and we also do rental loans and things like that. I've been in it now for about going on two years now, and I just don't know how to fully feel about it and if I should possibly switch out, but I also don't want to give up the money that's in it because there is really good money in it.

1:12:50Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Well, I mean, there's good money in a lot of things with your skill set, and your skill set is project management, processing, and sales. Correct. And you can make a lot of money with that skill set and other things. And so rather than hypothetically discussing this or philosophically discussing it, why don't you look for something okay and go find something and when you find something then the decision starts to be easy i mean let's say you had a job another job lined up that you did not have any moral conflicts with and um made the same money you'd be gone and you wouldn't even have called me yeah that would uh that would be true as well what are you making so i'm on track I was back this year to do about$80 ,000 to$100 ,000, being my second year in it.

1:13:42I mean, last year was only about$40 ,000. Okay. So there's the fallacy. The fallacy is I can't make$80 ,000 to$100 ,000 doing a different type of work. And we know that's not the case. So to Dave's point, let's go start searching. The skill set is what's going to carry you there.

1:13:56Dave Ramsey:It's not the actual industry itself. What you have learned to do is transferable into other things. If you can sell, honey, you can do almost anything. Salespeople are the highest paid profession in America today. higher than programmers, higher than CEOs, salespeople are the highest paid.

1:14:42Dave Ramsey:Our question of the day for the Ramsey Show is brought to you by Y-Refi. Defaulted private student loans can wreck your peace of mind, your finances, and your relationships. Y-Refi offers hope with custom refinancing based on your unique situation, your ability to pay. Visit Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. dot com slash Ramsey, not in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in Alaska. Showing dogs is my passion and expensive hobby. I've been leaning toward getting a new show dog, but I'm not sure if I should because of my financial goals. I'm debt free except for my house.

1:15:24I have a generous emergency fund and I'm investing 15 % of my income. I want to pay my house off in five years and believe I can do it if I'm very aggressive. I'm afraid getting a new show dog will derail my financial goals, but at the same time, I want to enjoy my life. I know at this point I'm supposed to be intentional instead of intense, but having a paid off house when I turn 50 sounds pretty amazing. How do I balance achieving my financial goals versus enjoying my life? Wow. Not on my bingo card.

1:15:54Dave Ramsey:Yeah. The problem is I don't know from this what the show dog cost. I mean, is the show dog 20 grand? If so, yeah, you've got a problem. If the show goes two grand, then you shouldn't even have written this email. You should have just bought the dog. The ratios help. Yeah, I mean, it's like, what is ridiculous? Because if it's so big that it's going to take you 10 years to pay off your house instead of five years, that's an expensive freaking dog. But if it's five and a half years versus five, okay. Yeah, or whatever. I don't know. I'm sure it's not 2 ,000, and I hope it's not 20. It should be somewhere in between.

1:16:32Dave Ramsey:But, you know, it depends on what kind of show dog we have in Alaska. Sled dog, show dog? I'm very curious. But I will say this. There will be another show dog available five years from now when you're debt free completely with a paid-for house. Yeah, so our instruction, once you're out of debt, except the home, and you have your emergency fund, which is where she is, and she's working baby steps, what we call four, five, and six. Four is 15 % of your income going into retirement. She's doing that. Five is kids' college, doesn't come up here. Six is pay off the house early. And when you're in the first three baby steps getting out of debt, you're supposed to be very intense, work like a crazy person, no vacation, no eating out, complete scorched earth lifestyle, get your butt out of debt.

1:17:18Dave Ramsey:When you get the emergency fund, you get to her stage, you move from intense to intentional. and intentional just says the facts should inform what you want to do so what i would do is say because we don't have the number here you and i don't george but if i were in her shoes i would say being intentional looks like this 15 is going into my into my retirement she didn't didn't she didn't discuss losing that which is perfect the only thing is how much delay is there going to be in paying off my house because of the cost of the dog. And that's a math thing. You can look at it. It's not emotional at all.

1:17:57Dave Ramsey:The show dog purchase is emotional because you're into it, obviously. But the actual math, you go, okay, the cost of the dog is this, and that's going to delay by paying off the house by one month, two months, three months, eight months, a year. At what point does the dog inflict too much pain on the paying off the house? because right now I think she's just got this jumbled up in her head that anything she does that's not paying off the mortgage is excessive and crazy and that's not true exactly at this stage you're intentional you buy a couch you go on a trip you upgrade your car you buy the show dog but again if the show dog's 50 grand or something I know you're not in a position to do that um what I would do is just create a sinking fund and as I have extra above and beyond my mortgage payoff goal I'll throw the money in there and that becomes my show dog fund and once I have enough?

1:18:49Yeah.

1:18:49Dave Ramsey:Or again, if it's a small amount, quit making it emotional. Look at the math. You go, I can cancel this one month. The math will tell you to do it right now. And just go, it's not going to cost me a half a month. Well, so what? I mean, you get the dog, right? That's what you do here. So that's fun. It's very interesting. I can't think, I cannot read this email without thinking about Best in Show. Oh my goodness, yes. Which I think a French bulldog won. last year. No way. I don't know. I think. I remember seeing it. I did own a retired show dog though. My first pug that I had was a retired, guess how old this pug was?

1:19:28Two. Out of the game. He's like a pro athlete. It's like NFL for this pug. He got his blue ribbon

1:19:34Dave Ramsey:and he's done. Exactly. So I had a retired show dog. His name was Elvis. With a snoring problem. Yeah, 100%. Those flat faces. 100 % of pugs have snoring problems. I'm like, what about this dog is like a championship winner dog. But it gave me hope that I could also be a winner one day. If that little schnitzel floof could get a ribbon, I was like, I should be able to win something. I could get a ribbon. If that guy can do it, I can do it. Trace is in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Trace, what's up? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I've got a question. I have a 2018 Kia that has 104 ,000 miles.

1:20:14I'm sorry. And I owe$8 ,500 on it. But I have it in the shop bi-monthly for hundreds of dollars to get stuff fixed. So my question is, do I stick with the loan, pay it off, and just deal with all the maintenance? Or do I go get a loan for$20 ,000 for a Toyota 4Runner?

1:20:41Dave Ramsey:Wow, that escalated quickly. We went from hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. To going deeper into debt. So, okay, let's pretend that your Kia is a piece of crap. It wouldn't be hard to pretend. Okay. Okay? Yeah, no. And it's worth what? What's it worth today? It's about$75 on Kelley Blue Book. Okay, so maybe you can get out of this thing close to hole even, right? Sure. Yes, sir. What about doing that says$20 ,000 Toyota? Nothing in this sentence makes sense. Why not get a reliable$10 ,000 car and stay about even and then get that car paid off? Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.

1:21:28My whole reasoning was if I could get something$10 ,000, you know, more than what I have right now and already owing it. You think that's the only way you get a reliable car?

1:21:38Dave Ramsey:No, it's not. The way you get a reliable car is you buy a reliable car. yes sir you buy a ten thousand dollar camry a ten thousand dollar acura and you'll be just honda accord you'll be just fine old ten the old ten thousand dollar lexus for that matter you'll be just fine until you get it paid off we're not gonna drive this thing for five years we're gonna drive it for five or ten months while you get paid off what are you making i make thirty thousand dollars a year yeah you don't need a twenty thousand dollar car anyway too much money tied up and things going down in value you have other you don't make enough money to drive a twenty thousand dollar car so i do not have any other debt i don't care you don't you make thirty thousand you don't need twenty thousand going the wrong way sure because it goes down in value like a rock that's where chevy gets that like a rock i don't even know kia's tagline oh it's like i'm sure it's in a foreign language but yeah Yeah, and it says crappy car, but yeah.

1:22:40Dave Ramsey:Yeah, I'm with you. I'm getting rid of the car, but I'm going to break even. I'm not going to use this as an excuse to get into a mess. That's the bottom line, and you're saying, oh, I'm spending$200. I need to go spend$20 ,000. No, you just keep spending the$200. You still come out way ahead mathematically. It's a pain in the butt, but if the car really is doing this, at some point it just gets to be so frustrating that you need to do something. I'm okay with that. But find a reliable, and I just named some, that you can drive for 200 ,000, 300 ,000 miles. And we're not buying anything with sex appeal here.

1:23:14Dave Ramsey:This is reliable. We're just trying to get to work. A and B. Without spending$200 every other month. And you can do a pre-purchase inspection. It's going to cost you$100 ,000,$150 ,000 with a respected mechanic in your area. And that'll let you know you're not buying a lemon. So don't just go buy any car and then hope. Just do the research, the make, model, the year. get to know the issues, know the recalls, get it inspected by a mechanic, and that way you know what you're getting into next time. A real mechanic, not AI. Just as a side note. A real one. Were there fake ones out there? Well, there's artificial intelligence analysis.

1:23:48Dave Ramsey:Oh, gosh. And we don't need any analysis of a used car by something that's artificial. I need like a real person looking at it. Artificial means not real, by the way. That's like not real sugar sucks. Yeah, let me help you with that. So artificial sweetener. No, thanks. Dave needs the real stuff. I need real intelligence, not artificial intelligence. There you go.

1:24:31Dave Ramsey:We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

1:25:03Dave Ramsey:Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

1:25:26Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the George Camel Show, is my co-host today. Amy's in Denver. Hi, Amy. How are you? Hi, Dave. Good. And hi, George. And thank you both for the program and the show. I really, really enjoy it. And you're doing great things. So thank you. So I'm relatively new to following your program. And I've really only been listening. I haven't read any of the books or anything, admittedly, so sorry, plan two.

1:26:07But I'm just about working on completing baby step number three. But my question is, should the six-month emergency fund include retirement and investing and giving, or should it just be for survival expenses?

1:26:25Dave Ramsey:Oh, what number, times six or times three? Yeah, Just survival expenses. Just survival. Okay. Let's pretend the emergency was you lost your job and you didn't have an income. Well, you would stop retirement and you would stop generosity in the middle of that or largely stop it. And so, you know, you're not going to use savings to fund those things. You're going to use savings to pay the house payment, eat, keep the lights on, that kind of stuff. Right. Okay. Awesome. Then, hey, I just finished baby step number three on this call. That was easy. Awesome. I like a redefinition. That's good. Did you go with three or six months or somewhere in between?

1:27:04Six. I did six. Good. Love it. You can't go wrong with that. No one's ever complained. They went, man, I just have so much savings. So how much is in that account now? So right now I have 18 ,828 in that account.

1:27:23Dave Ramsey:That's pretty precise. Okay. Yeah. Finish it. to finish it i'd take it up to 20 and then i'd quit yeah dave likes round even numbers yeah that way i can remember what it is yeah right because i've already forgotten the 18 000 number so yeah i would yeah you'll knock that out within the next month yeah yeah just finish that up and then you know i got 20 grand for things go sideways i got 20 grand and that gives you a level of peace just like when you got all your debts paid off you had a level of peace now you're starting to get financial peace two words that don't go together like airline service so there you go open phones here at 888-825-5225.

1:27:58Dave Ramsey:Dakota is in Nashville. Hey, Dakota, what's up? Hey, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I just had a question. I bought 50 acres in Shelbyville towards the end of 2023, which I know probably was not a good time to buy anything. But from my perspective, I thought it was a reasonable price for the amount of land. I got it for$320. and I've got that down to 228 and I've done water out there and electric and I just my interest rate is like 8.5 so my monthly payments just like break my heart to see the small amount that's actually going to my loan and I didn't know if maybe would building something out there and doing a mortgage loan do you think I could get a better rate I mean I'm still working on baby step number two getting three months or more worth of, you know, bills in my savings.

1:28:52But I just, I don't know, it's overwhelming to me, and I just don't know what the best thing to do is.

1:28:57Dave Ramsey:Okay. So you went$300 ,000 in debt to buy land as an investment while you still have other debt. I do not have any other debt. Mr. Carr has paid off. I thought you said you were in Baby Step 2. Well, no, no, no, sorry. Debt has paid off. I've got$1 ,000 as an emergency savings, and then I'm working on, I thought, I'm sorry, maybe I don't know why they used to text amazingly. I thought number two was getting months worth of, you know, three months worth of bills. No, okay. Are you debt-free other than this land, or do you have a house? Yes, sir. Nope, no home. I live with my parents still. What was the goal of getting this land?

1:29:36What was the vision here? I have cows and horses, and I would like to live out there eventually, but there's no rush. My mother's health is not great, so it benefits everyone, me being home right now, I think. How old are you? I'm 28. I'll be 29 next month.

1:29:54Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right.

1:29:58Dave Ramsey:Well, I'm trying to think how to position this within a framework that it makes sense. No, I would not tell a 28-year-old to go buy a$300 ,000 piece of raw ground and put water and electric on it as an investment and go$300 ,000 in debt to do it. No, I would never tell you to do that, ever. Okay. Okay?

1:30:25Dave Ramsey:But not to get a cow. It's an expensive cow. No, you're exactly right. You're exactly right, yes, sir. So, um, the, um, but, uh, what do you make a year? Um, last year I made about 98 and I think the year before that was like one of four. What do you do? I'm self-employed. I'm a mobile dog groomer. Wow. Okay. You are an animal girl. Um, yeah, I think, yeah. Um, Hmm. the only way this makes sense is for you to put a house in it and move on it and get your get your rate down what you ask is correct i your your question is proper um it's a good it's a really good question you're asking so you get out of the eight percent world and you get into the five and a half five and three quarter percent world on a 15 year fixed rate and you put your little house on there of some kind doesn't have to be fancy but let's get something on there and get started.

1:31:23Dave Ramsey:And, and, you know, and here's the thing, it's your personal residence from a standpoint of getting the mortgage. But if you only sleep there three nights a week, that's not a big deal. Okay. Because you're four nights a week with mom. Right. At least then we can put this in the bucket of baby step six and it becomes your home. You owe three and a grand on it. That's acceptable in your situation. Okay. If we leave it in the bucket of, I have this investment real estate I'm developing in Shelbyville, Tennessee. No, you've got to sell that. That don't make any sense at all. Right. No, you're right.

1:31:57I get it. It was totally a personal thing, and it may not have been a smart move.

1:32:02Dave Ramsey:No, it wasn't. It was way out of control. It was somewhat panic-driven. I'm not even sure you got that great a deal. Probably not. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. It's beautiful down through there. I drive down through there all the time. I love Shelbyville. It is pretty. And that's how you say it. It's not Shelbyville unless you're a Yankee. It's Shelbyville. but yeah so one syllable yes sir but that yeah that i yeah i think that's the only way this makes sense is we're going to convert it to what you had kind of in the back of your mind as a plan that's the question you asked so i'm going with your question i think that's the way to do it nothing's on fire like i know it's a high interest rate but you still have the emergency fund to work through you need to have some money for this house to happen and so i wouldn't rush any of this.

1:32:45Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you could flip the loan to a construction loan and build the house on out, a modest home on it. And I think you can afford it. I'm not positive. I'd crunch the numbers on that because you're going to add a house to the loan on top of the land loan. Depends on what we're going to spend. So I wouldn't go crazy. Like Dave said, just do something as simple as possible right now. You can always upgrade and add to it later. Yeah. Maybe do an architectural plan that allows for additions the way it's designed and you just build the first section to live in and you turn it i'm trying to turn it into personal residence that way you get to keep it otherwise i think you need to sell it that's what it comes down to so yeah your question's accurate interesting and dave loves land more than anyone i know i like dirt i'm a dirt boy for sure sometimes you just push it around get your little truck out there and i've seen you out there i'm like what is dave doing now he's just pushing dirt around yeah like a seven year old who grew up no i actually had a little project I was working on.

1:33:43Dave Ramsey:Come on, give me a break. If you're 65 and you've got a little bulldozer, you've got to drive it. There's worse hobbies to have.

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1:34:58Dave Ramsey:Man, my day just got considerably better, George. George, I like you, but I don't like you nearly like I like this guy. This guy is one of my favorite people on the entire planet, and a whole bunch of other people are as well. The one and only Pastor Max Lakato has stopped in again to hang out with us. We've done this a couple of times because you write a book every year. We go way back. And every year I get the pleasure of helping you do that, and that's an excuse for you and me to hang out a little bit. We go several offices back, it seems. Several studios back. This is the seventh studio we promoted Max Lakato's books in.

1:35:36Dave Ramsey:And it's a real privilege. Well, and my hours, too. If you don't know who Pastor Max Licato is, he's one of the best-selling authors in the world. Over 100 million products in print. Unbelievable numbers. And an incredible writer. He's dubbed America's pastor by Christianity Today and the best preacher in America by Reader's Digest. And he is definitely all of that. at Oak Hills Church down in San Antonio. I've had the honor of speaking there several times with him. He's allowed me to be there. And so Max Lakedo, this newest book is Tame Your Thoughts, Three Tools to Renew Your Mind and Transform Your Life.

1:36:20Dave Ramsey:When I was reading over this, I was blown away when you had done the numbers on the amount of thoughts that we have. Stunning. 70 ,000 thoughts a day. 70 ,000 thoughts. And according to the Cleveland Clinic, four out of five of those are either negative or self-critical. That's stunning. Yeah. We talk nasty to ourselves. We do. We're our own worst enemy. And learning to liberate ourselves from that is absolutely essential. So what got you going on this subject? Some of these same statistics, Dave. When I read especially about our adolescents in this day and age, 42 percent say they live under a cloud of anxiety or depression.

1:37:0322 percent of adolescents have contemplated suicide in the six months prior to the survey. We grownups don't fare much better. About two out of five of us live with a constant state of anxiety that needs some type of help or assistance. And so this discussion about a mental health crisis is real, and I wanted to try to tackle it from a spiritual and scriptural standpoint.

1:37:29Dave Ramsey:Yeah. It's a complicated subject, but as Scripture often does, it guides us into a very – it puts the cookies on a shelf where we can reach it. To a complicated subject, a fairly clean answer that's easy to understand but hard to do. Yeah, because like a lot of scripture, you love your neighbor. Oh, yeah, I got it. But yeah, I got to do that now. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah. So without all the advice that's out there and how this is being complicated, how'd you land on these three tools? You said the three tools to renew your mind and transform your life. Yeah, this is just out of pastoral work. You know, I've been ordained since 79.

1:38:10And over the years, I've tried to hone because I see this so often as you do. Both of you do. You see that our behavior is a result of belief. If you want to change your behavior, you change your belief. You don't deal first with the behavior. What's the frame of reference or the worldview that you're coming at? And I've realized that if we can encourage people to, number one, practice picky thinking. Just because you have a thought, you don't have to think it. Take that thought captive is the way the Scripture says.

1:38:39Dave Ramsey:And number two, identify your UFOs, the untruth that leads to a false narrative, that leads to an overreaction. That's the world. Oh, the drama queen. Yeah. When there's an overreaction, it's because somewhere back upstream, there's an untruth that's taken root. And then tool number three is uproot and replant. When you discover those untruths, you got to get their weeds in the garden, and you got to take them seriously. You've got to uproot. It's not enough to pull them out. You've got to replant, and you replant with truth out of Scripture. Wow. You know, I've observed this over these decades, and you have too, that when someone's life is intersected by the gospel, and they start to understand truth, and then they compare that to the dysfunction that they maybe came out of.

1:39:30Dave Ramsey:Absolutely. And they go, okay, I've got to uproot, and I have to have a new set of— And it literally, you get to watch someone's life be transformed, but also their entire legacy, their entire family tree is shifted because of their intersection with truth. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's so powerful. It's powerful. As you were sharing those, I kept thinking, oh, that's like what Dave has done for 30 years on the radio because we sell hope here. So if you were on a call with us and someone called in and they were overwhelmed with their finances, how do these tools apply? Let's take UFO into the world of finances, okay?

1:40:07UFO, untruth leads to a false narrative that leads to an overreaction. The untruth is I'm only as valuable as I appear, okay? So I'm going to dress to the nines. I'm going to do everything to my body I can so I can be valuable. Well, that's a lie. That's the untruth.

1:40:24Dave Ramsey:That would lead then to a false narrative. The reason that I need a job, the reason that I need a credit card, the reason that I need money is so I can accumulate, So I can have more stuff because my stuff translates into value. Well, then that leads into overreaction, debt, problems, comparison, competition, insecurity. And so 25-year-old Pastor Max, when I was ordained, I would have dealt out here with the overreaction. Well, just quit spending so much or quit buying so much or you're materialistic. or these days I would say, wait, there's something that they've believed back upstream. We can figure out what that value system dysfunction is.

1:41:08Dave Ramsey:I think we can deal with the overreaction. And that's the replacing it with the truth. Absolutely. Larry Burkett used to say financial problems aren't the problem, they're the symptom. There you have it. And that's true of a lot of problems. A lot of problems that we see. They're not the marital problem and the problem. It's a symptom. It's a consequence. You go upstream, you find selfishness. or you go upstream, you find whatever. But this actual argument is not the deal. Absolutely. There's something up there behind it and get behind it. And you can flip it on its head, okay? Let's take the truth, and that is I'm a child of God, I'm born of God, I'm destined to spend forever with God.

1:41:42Dave Ramsey:I may not be the best-looking guy in the world, but who cares, man? I've got more than I deserve, right? And that leads into a healthy narrative of life. I'm put here for a purpose with a purpose to make a big deal out of God, okay? That leads them to a right reaction. Who can I serve today? How can I be a good person today? I'm going to honor the Lord today. So it's a whole different mindset. But we deal with this problem of toxic thoughts by going back to the beginning. You can apply those same tools to any type of thoughts, anxiety, lust, greed, bitterness, anger. But you take those three tools and put them to use in whatever your toxic thought pattern is, and I think you make progress.

1:42:22Yeah.

1:42:23Dave Ramsey:Some of these people that live in your head need an eviction notice. They're living there rent free. They're living there rent free. Tame your thoughts. Three tools to renew your mind and transform your life. The one and only Max Licato, multiple New York Times bestselling author. And I've read almost everything he's written, and it's a lot. And all the way back to maybe Grip of Grace. It had to be before that. It was in the early 90s. I was reading way back there. I remember you and I having lunch the first time in San Antonio, and I was such a fanboy. I was just gaga'd. I couldn't hardly eat my lunch.

1:42:59Dave Ramsey:I got to have lunch with Max Licato. What was really weird was I called him and he returned my call. That was really weird. Well, you bought lunch. Well, there's that. That's all it takes. There's that. A little generosity goes a long way. So last thoughts on thoughts. This is such a powerful thing because it all begins there. It does. It does. You want to have a better life tomorrow, take inventory of your thoughts today. We all have toxic thought patterns. We do. We all have a proclivity towards some type of quicksand of thoughts. So identify yours. Ask the Lord to help you. Don't be conformed to the world, the Scripture says, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

1:43:42Dave Ramsey:Romans 12, too. That's one of your favorite verses. It is. It is, because that's what I signed Total Money Makeover with. Is that right? Yeah, 14 million copies now. Beautiful. Yeah, it's, you can do it. Don't be like everybody else. Yeah, yeah. God made our brain. He can retrain our brain, right? And that's really what thoughts are. They're habits. So creating better thought habits is really what it means to be a follower of Christ. Perfect. Beautifully said. The one and only Pastor Max Licato. I love you, brother. Love you too, Dave. Thanks for getting to hang out with us. Good to see you again.

1:44:13Dave Ramsey:Anytime I get to spend a few minutes with you, my day is better. My life is better. The book is Tame Your Thoughts, Three Tools to Renew Your Mind. and transform your life. I've got my own Max Licato autographed copy that will go in my autographed copy collection of books, and it's got quite a few Max Licato books in it, autographed, I'll just tell you. This is The Ramsey Show.

1:44:48Dave Ramsey:buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price that's why we only recommend ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:45:36Dave Ramsey:This is funny. It's National Make-A-Will Month. How are you celebrating, Dave? Sorry. Had to do it. Horrible. It really is, though. It's a real thing. They sent me this thing. They said five reasons people don't do a will. Number one, procrastination. 43 % of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it. just as they keel over and die. Perfect timing. Perfectionism. I'm writing a will involves a few big decisions and I don't want to make them. Makes sense. This is like a comedy routine. Thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you need a will. 40 % of respondents in caring.com studies said they don't own enough to leave anybody a legacy.

1:46:23Dave Ramsey:Well, okay. You got kids. Don't let the government decide for you. who takes care of them. That's a dumb idea. Number four, a belief that everything automatically goes to a family. It does not. Laws are different from state to state. Number five, uncertainty about the process. Don't know where to start. If you want to take our Wills quiz for a simple online quiz to learn about Wills, you can do that. Recommend it highly. You really do need to get a stinking will. It's how you say I love you to the people. Listen, if you hate your family, leave everything very chaotic and make them sort through it.

1:46:57Dave Ramsey:because they'll all be pissed at each other, and it'll take years of their productivity away, because they're going to be dealing with your crap. The opposite is if you love your family, you leave everything very precise, very organized, and very systematized and detailed, and that includes a will. So go to RamseySolutions.com, will quiz. Take the quick will quiz, and we'll help you out. Karina is in Seattle. Hey, Karina, how are you? Hello, I am Will, and thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Earlier this year I had picked up a second job because I realized that I would never be able to afford a home with my parents.

1:47:32And so I've been putting away money and saving up. You would never be able to afford a home with what? Just the single job that I had.

1:47:41Dave Ramsey:Oh, okay. I thought you said parents. I'm sorry. Okay. You figured out you couldn't buy a home on your salary, so you picked up an extra job. Correct. Okay. And I have been saving. And my question is this. I had originally planned to do a 15-year fixed rate, but now after doing a little bit of math in the past three weeks, I've kind of been looking through all your videos and the materials you have available, and I've come to the realization that maybe buying in cash would be best. I am planning to buy a home with my parents simply because I live with my parents, and the plan between my siblings and I is that I will be taking care of my parents.

1:48:16So I was hoping that we would get this home, go in together, and they would live in this home. And once I get married, I would buy a house with my significant other. But my question is this. My parents do not have retirement. They're both self-employed, and they don't make a lot of money. Would it be best course of action if I just put 7K into my Roth IRA? Would it be best if I gift 8K to my father so that he could at least start? And my parents are 55 and 57 currently.

1:48:47Dave Ramsey:you're broke, so broke you can't buy a house, and you're asking how to take care of your parents who don't even make a good enough living to save for themselves. Well, I'm not broke anymore. I do have savings now, and I do have both jobs. I'm making a decent amount. How old are you? I'm 30. Okay. All right. I'm 65, and in this very moment I'm pretty aggravated with a couple of 55-year-olds who have not bothered to take care of themselves so that their own kid is worried about having to take care of them. They need to get off their butt and go make some money and take care of themselves. And no, you don't need to move in with these people.

1:49:28Dave Ramsey:They're financially irresponsible. Well, they're immigrants. We're all immigrants and recently became U.S. citizens. And so they don't really speak English very well. And so that's kind of part of the problem. They're not very familiar with the U.S. retirement system or anything like that. And so they've been employed their whole life and they make about 32K together and they take care of the rent and everything. So that's kind of why I've been able to save up during this time. This feels like a recipe for disaster. You buy a house with them and then eventually you're going to move out, leaving them to hopefully afford the mortgage on their own.

1:50:03No. So that's kind of why I was hoping after listening to a couple of your materials and whatnot was to pay cash. That way they would only have a little bit of expenses.

1:50:12Dave Ramsey:What country did you all immigrate from? Ukraine. Okay. All right. And what does your mom and dad do for a living? My mom is a housekeeper and my dad's a mechanic. Okay. And how long have they been here? A little over 25 years. And they still don't speak English? My dad can understand mostly everything. He can do the fare that he needs for his job and whatnot. He's pretty well-versed in his job. But in day-to-day, it's a little bit more difficult or if it gets a little bit complex. My mom, on the other hand, she speaks very, very minimal. Okay. All right. If they've been here two months, that's an excuse.

1:50:54Dave Ramsey:When you've been here 25 years, it's no longer an excuse. It's part of learning to function in the society to learn the language. And, I mean, I spend two weeks in Mexico or three weeks in Mexico, and by the time I leave, my Spanish has increased dramatically. and I'm not great with Spanish, but I'm going to learn while I'm there to be able just to function. And that's in six weeks, not 25 years. So I'm going to encourage your mom and dad to work on their English skills so that they can increase their incomes so that they can take care, better care of themselves. So they're not dependent upon their 30 year old single daughter to do that.

1:51:35Dave Ramsey:This is not a sustainable situation. You're not going to buy a house with them and then move out and buy another house with your significant other. You're going to get trapped and have a guilt trip to take care of them because they're immigrants and they don't make enough and they can't take care of themselves is the narrative that you've painted up. And so, no, I want to create a sustainable thing for them where they can not only sustain, but then they can move into prosperity. And then that gives you the freedom to live the life that they brought you here to get to live, which is a life of freedom, not trapped taking care of two people who haven't bothered to learn English in 25 years.

1:52:14So, um, yeah, that, that's what I'm going to do.

1:52:17Dave Ramsey:If I'm in your old shoes now that may go over, not at all. When you start talking to them about it, I understand that, but those are choices they make then. And then you've got to decide what choices you make. But I hesitate to put you into anything that causes you to have to take care of these grown people. It, you know, it's an honorable thing to do. I mean, if you go make a, go make $2 million or something and you want to make sure they have food, that's not what I'm talking about. But at 55 and 56, they have plenty of time to create a sustainable life. Yeah, this is going to create more codependence, more enabling, more entitlement if they move in with you, which gives them no onus to really have to take care of themselves because daughter's got us.

1:52:59She's always got us. They've got to learn how to be independent. So instead of kickstarting retirement, get them a Duolingo subscription. I don't know how, give them a way so that they can create a life for themselves instead of you constantly propping it up, which is a very noble, sweet thing to do, but it doesn't solve the problem at hand.

1:53:15Dave Ramsey:I'm sorry. No, I would not buy a house with them because I don't think it's going to lead you in 30 years where you want to be. And I think it's going to cause you pain and handcuffs and all of those kinds of things. Katie's in Kansas. Hey, Katie, what's up? Hi, thank you for having me on. Sure. How can we help? I'm curious if it's inappropriate of me to ask my husband to find a job that pays more to support our family. What does he make? 2024, he made$32 ,000. No, it's not inappropriate at all. Why does he not want to do better? The last time we had this conversation, he said that he thinks he makes enough.

1:54:02And we have four kids.

1:54:04Dave Ramsey:He makes half of the national average. You're a lower-income family with four kids approaching the poverty level. No, he does not make enough. So then how do I go about having that conversation? You probably could just say that. and numbers and facts help too to go listen here's our expenses here's what we need up look it up what's the poverty level with four kids average household income 78 000 right now we make 32 we got four kids poverty level with four kids is probably 26 27 28 i don't know it might be 30 and so yeah i think i do really believe the national poverty statistics that you're there and i think you point that out so no he doesn't make enough and i'm curious sorry Sorry.

1:54:48He also has bipolar disorder and PTSD. So does that play a factor? Should I not put more pressure on him because of his struggles?

1:54:57Dave Ramsey:No, he's got to work within those guidelines. That's a context. It's not an excuse, as Dr. Deloney says. So the context is I have to work within my bipolar, within my PTSD, and earn enough to pay for four kids. And otherwise it activates bipolar. The stress activates PTSD. you

1:55:32Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 6, 19. We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. Serena Williams said, I am lucky that whatever fear I have inside me, my desire to win is always stronger. Lori is in Florida. Hi, Lori. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. What's up? I am going through a pretty bad divorce. I had to cash in some of my retirement account back in March because my spouse decided to stop supporting our family. of that money. I have about$38 ,000 left from there. We just sold a second home that we had and I was able to get partial proceeds from that$70 ,000. So my question is, I have credit card debt.

1:56:41I just started working again. I'm basically a single mom because I'm not getting any financial support from him. How many children do you have? We have one together. With you? And yes.

1:56:58Dave Ramsey:And how old? Ten. And how has your lawyer gotten away, let them get away with no financial support? He has lost his job. He had a very good career, and he made some really bad decisions to the point where he may lose a license, may not have a career. Okay, so he doesn't have an income. That's why you don't have child support. It's not because he's just being arbitrary, not because the divorce is tough. He lost his job. He did, and he also cashed out all of our kids' college funds, retirement accounts that he had, and he's basically being non—he's not being forthcoming with his financials. Is your attorney riding him—I mean, you're slapping him around, pulling him up before the judge and exposing all this, right?

1:58:00Yes. Okay. The thing is, I just came into this lump sum of money very recently, and I need to pay my attorney what I owe him.

1:58:11Dave Ramsey:Yeah, what do you owe your attorney? $20 ,000. Okay. Out of the$70, that leaves you$50 ,000, and then you've got$36 ,000 left from the other. Yeah. And you've got taxes and penalties on that retirement account you cashed out. Yes, sir. Coming up next year. This was in 25 you did that or 24? I did, 25. All right. And you cashed out 50 grand. And so you're going to have a$5 ,000 penalty plus your taxes on that are about another 20 grand. You're going to have about a$25 ,000 tax bill. Yeah. Okay. Just being prepared for next April, okay, mentally. That's what we got to do. And are you working? Obviously you are.

1:58:51Dave Ramsey:You said you're a single mom. What do you make? um i have been out of the workforce i'm a nurse i've been out of the workforce for several years and i just went back to work in uh in may good and what do you make um after taxes about 4 200 a month and you're a nurse i am okay all right you're not getting a lot of hours are you um it's uh i've had to if i went and worked night shift i could get differentials but then i have child care yeah issues yeah i got you i'm i'm relying on family and friends right now for child care because he can't be he's not involved i understand can't be with what's going on he's obviously got some bad stuff going on yeah okay he does um all right and so your question was what Let me get back to that.

1:59:49What do I... If I give my... To speed this divorce up, I pay my attorney$20 ,000. And then I potentially will get the rest of the proceeds that were from the vacation home sale. Yeah. Now our marital home...

2:00:14Dave Ramsey:To offset the fact that he hit all the other stuff, yeah. Yeah, the marital home is currently being sold as well. So now I'm in the process of looking for a place to go to live with my daughter. Are there proceeds from that too? There will be. There's significant. Are you asking whether to pay your attorney the 20K? Yes is the answer. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, because here's what, listen, as long as this drags out, You cannot create your future because you're living in your past. Yes, sir. And it's painful as hell. I mean, this is hard. It's hard to listen to you. It's awful. I'm so sorry for you.

2:01:00Dave Ramsey:And it's not only heartbreaking, it makes you angry and disgusted all at the same time. And all those emotions swirling around, it's hard to do anything. And I've just been talking to you three minutes, and I'm already feeling all of it. So, I mean, it's like I can't imagine being in your head. So bless your heart. I'm so sorry. So, yeah, I want to get this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can because it sounds like this guy needs to go away and I need clarity about what I've got to do, what cards I have in my hand to deal with my future. Yes, sir. Yeah, get the houses sold, get the money in the bank, build up the career, get an apartment, get settled, and then let's talk about rebuilding and going from here.

2:01:39Dave Ramsey:But the first thing we've got to do is create a sustainable, safe situation where we've got housing, where we've got a sustainable income, and we have figured out what we have net, net, net with a$25 ,000 tax bill coming up in the fall, in the spring. and so um yeah uh i'm paying him and getting all this in the rearview mirror as fast as i can and then i've got a friend that does divorce recovery work and uh she taught me years and years and years ago that divorce turns a business or turns a marriage into a business transaction so this just becomes a column now of assets and liabilities of income and you just it's just a math thing now because all this emotion and all this betrayal and all this misbehavior are just the drama and the sidebar.

2:02:28Dave Ramsey:But the actual story is you and the 10-year-old moving forward with a pocket full of money and you're a nurse and you can go make a great living being a nurse. And you're going to have a great life from here. But you just need to not have to burn all the calories dealing with this crap all the time right yes sir he's just wasted away like millions of dollars oh i can't imagine i can't imagine i'm sure yeah and hopefully you can get the proceeds from the vacation house the family house and everything to offset all the crap that he's you know that he's stolen from this discussion and uh get it all set back up and yeah when you can get that and get this in the rearview mirror it'll make all the difference in the world yeah Yeah, clearing these debts, at least with all these proceeds, will clear you up financially and mentally.

2:03:14Just so there's a lot going on right now. Let's simplify as much as we can.

2:03:18Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So main thing is get the attorney paid, get that going. And then let's quantify, you know, I got a$25 ,000 tax bill coming up. I need to hold that money aside. And then I need to look at what else I need to clean up, get me an apartment, get an income that we can live on. And then from there, we'll build the career. From there, we'll build a life out of this. And that's where you're going from here, man. that's just painful. I'm so sorry. It helps to just put it all down in writing, put it on a note and just go, here's all the things that I have, all the debts I need to pay off. Here's all the money I have coming in.

2:03:52And it just helps clear it from your mind to see it on paper and doing a budget will also help you. I'll gift you every dollar, Lori, to help you just put all this on paper. I'm making 4 ,200 a month. Where should every single dollar be going? That's one less thing you got to think about once you see it on there, right there on the app, wherever you go.

2:04:08Dave Ramsey:And I don't want you to rent something nice. I want you to rent something cheap because it's temporary. You're not going to be there long. You might be there one year, maybe. So this is not the Taj Mahal. The 10-year-old's life is not going to be better because of the rental property you get. So just keep it cheap because you need the margin. I want you to have lots of margin where you're not touching any of this pile of money at all for living. if you can set yourself up where you live on the 4200 that's a sustainable beginning and you go from there so wow so i'm sorry kiddo it's real painful i apologize i'm sorry you're going through that it's awful it's not fair and uh some people's misbehavior wow i post this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ Jesus