Get in the Driver’s Seat of Your Own Life

13:19Rachel Cruze:And that can be, at a local church if you're there. It could be at something that they're passionate about, some type of nonprofit, whatever it looks like. But I think cultivating the spirit of one of the first things we do is we're givers, like we give. And there's something in that habit that I think is so beautiful. I think saving is really big. I mean, they'll be 16 here before you know it. And so I'm like, I don't know if there's a really big purchase that they can be working towards like a car. And I don't know if they save for half, you match half. I don't know what that looks like, but that could be a really good tangible goal.

13:53Rachel Cruze:And for some 12-year-olds, it probably feels far away, but yours sound like they're pretty in line with looking at big numbers, right? Which would be like a bigger purchase like a car. And then letting them enjoy some of it. And then having a percentage that they enjoy some of it. I mean, they are 12, you know, and they're making great money. So if there's something fun they want to buy, then that's great too, right? So I think not being legalistic about it, but I think the three rhythms of that give, save, spend, I think is going to be really big. And, and that's more of the tactical side of money, but there's also the emotional side of that contentment and that, you know what I mean?

14:31Rachel Cruze:Like there's the emotional side of money, but for now, that's probably where I would steer you from a tactical side.

14:35Dr. John Delony:And I'll just tell you, I wouldn't tell you to do something I don't do in my own house. My 10 year old, she actually works a lot. She's always looking for ways to make more money. And my, I have a recent 16 year old who, since he was 12, he's been saving up for the truck he just bought. And so, but we just put it in a regular checking account. I mean, regular savings account. And even for my son, my wife connected it to a till account. I don't even know what that is, but that's how she pays him and puts it in there. And, but we don't mess with high yield savings accounts or any of that kind of stuff for, for our kids.

15:11Dr. John Delony:When you say they make thousands. Do they make 3 ,000 or do they make 20 ,000? Well, it's been, I think, 8 ,000 each overall for the past few years, but the one has like 5 ,000. And he asked me about investment accounts the other day. I'm like, I have no idea. So the standard line is the biggest investment you can make right now is in you. And so let's say we're going to pay cash for a car. We're going to put some money away for schooling if we want to end up doing that. If you want to start this as if you graduate from high school and you want to decide you want to go full time into entrepreneurship, you're going to need some seed money.

15:47Dr. John Delony:And so the line that I use in my house is the biggest investment you can make right now is not in market returns. It's in you. Then when you get out of college is we want to start looking at big market returns. Yeah, because for a lot of investing, it is for a long term.

16:04Rachel Cruze:It's a long term mindset, like, you know, especially retirement investing, you're going in touch until you're 59, right? And a 12 year old doesn't need to be thinking about that where the math is fun. And for them to understand logically, my parents said that they taught us about mutual, like, this is what this can do. But the reality is you're going to need cash on hand to buy a car at 16. You're going to need cash for college, you're going to need cash. I mean, my parents even told me, when you graduate college, and that transition from college to the real world, whether you need first month's rent and last month's rent for your first apartment, you got to buy, you know, furniture, like there is in the next 10 years of his life or her life, they're going to need cash and majority people don't even have that.

16:40Rachel Cruze:And so they end up, you know, in the negative as they start adulthood. So having that there where compound interest and everything, they're going to be fine if they start investing at 21, 22. Right. Um, so I really, in my mind, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't even put money in like, Oh, buy a stock here and watch it grow. Cause we don't even teach single stocks. Like I wouldn't even get in the habit of that. So I would have a tangible thing that heat that they're saving for, um, that they're invested in. And then usually the car is for most teenagers, which is great. And then, hey, where can we continue to enjoy some of this and give some of it?

17:13Rachel Cruze:And Andy, I'll say to you, I mean, kudos to you. We always say more is caught than taught, which is so true. And in your situation, what you've just walked through is you just flippantly kind of said it at the beginning. Like I left an abusive marriage and I'm on my own. I'm like, you are incredible. And so having a mom who is figuring this stuff out and has the humility to learn and to ask and be curious about all of this, like they're going to learn so much from you too, without you even saying a word. So your example already of what you set for them is beautiful.

17:43Dr. John Delony:And bring them in. Bring them into light bill conversations and bring them in. Like if you want to do a basic run through of your budget, your kids are pretty business savvy. Show them what stuff costs and you'll see your kids start to turn the lights off. And you'll see your kids looking at, like, they'll bicker with each other, like, it's at 74. Let's move it to 76. We can say, like, you'll see that kind of stuff happening, but let them watch you figure it out. Not all the time, but a couple of times a year, I'll hand my tithing check to one of my kids. I want them to see that check. And they'll look at me all wide-eyed, and I'll say, it's not our money.

18:24Dr. John Delony:Right? And they're like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, right? But I don't like showing anybody that stuff. But that's how they're going to learn, oh, my mom and my dad put their money where their mouth is. So bring them into some of those conversations. How open are you with the kids? Do I share income and all of those? My kids don't know how much money I make. I don't give them – and I don't tell them – my son knows that I've got a college account. He does not know how much money is in that account because it's not his because he'll start spending it. I'm like, oh, dad. But I do show them how much stuff costs.

19:02Dr. John Delony:And that's been really eye-opening for everybody. And my daughter's 10. She's starting to come into those conversations with us. Okay.

19:12Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I think it is. I mean, that 12, 13, 14, they can start to grasp things. And if they know how much it takes to run a household and be an adult from car insurance to health insurance, life insurance to the light bill. Even my son. Netflix, Disney, all these things that we have. They're expensive. Bundled together, here's how much this is.

19:31Dr. John Delony:My son the other day just said, hey, dad, I think I'm going to drop out of high school right now, get a job at McDonald's and start, like, I just want to start making money and whatever. And he had factored in rent. And I was like, okay, what about this and this and light bill? And he just goes, all right, I'll stay in school. But it's just, it's part of their growth process. But you aren't less than just because you don't have this stuff all dialed in. let them watch mom learn and that'll be the greatest gift you could give them.

20:12Rachel Cruze:Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information? Things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives' names? You guys, that is just crazy, but that is why I use Delete Me because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places, then suddenly all that information shows up on random websites. And removing it yourself means going site by site, filling out forms, and hoping they actually take it down. It takes hours, and then it can even pop up somewhere else again.

20:50Rachel Cruze:But Delete Me's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep scanning and cleaning up your data year round. So take back control of your privacy. Go to joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey and get 20 % off your annual plan. That's joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey.

21:39Rachel Cruze:Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, that is so normal for so many people because normal is broke. And listen, you don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollarBudget app helps you find extra money every month and helps you build a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes, you can find thousands of dollars in hidden margin because it's going to feel like you got a raise. And we help you with all these prompts to be thinking outside the box of where your money is going. So don't live normal. Do not live broke. Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play.

22:14Rachel Cruze:All right, let's head to Phoenix. And we have Lauren on the line. Hi, Lauren. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

22:25Dr. John Delony:Okay, so my husband and I started the EveryDollar app a couple months ago. He started listening to you guys and then got me on board. And we ended up selling our truck and taking out a personal loan for the balance and getting about$50 ,000 knocked off of our debt. Yeah, dude. Where'd he go?

22:45Rachel Cruze:Good job.

22:45Dr. John Delony:Yeah. So we were super proud of that. And now we are actually evaluating if we should sell our house and use the profit to wipe out the rest of our debt and just get a clean slate, rent for a couple of months, build up an actual down payment the right way, and just be able to kind of fast track getting debt free. So we have a significant amount of debt, so I can kind of list it out. Our monthly income is$11 ,700 roughly. He's flat rate mechanic, and I'm a nail tech, so it varies.

23:20Rachel Cruze:Okay.

23:21Dr. John Delony:But that's about what we're bringing in a month. And then we've got his student loan balance is$3 ,650. We've got a credit card for$3 ,600. Our tax balance for this year is$5 ,277. The personal loan for the truck balance ended up being$7 ,500. Okay. We've got a solar loan attached to the house for$31 ,300, which we're hoping will be assumed by the next owner. That would be the goal. And then my student loan balance is about$47 ,000. Okay. Yeah. You had me. I was like, oh, you're going to be able to do this? and then it's like, oh,$70 ,000 more,$75 ,000.

24:12Rachel Cruze:But you guys, before tax and stuff, you guys are running what? Probably$130 ,000?

24:17Dr. John Delony:I think so. My husband would know that better than me. Yeah,$130,$140 ,000 probably. Do you have little ones? Yes. Well, we have three.

24:25Rachel Cruze:We have 15, 12, and 10-year-olds. Okay. And how much is your mortgage a month? A lot.

24:33Dr. John Delony:It is$3 ,032. and we in two years have only knocked down 10 grand on principle on our house.

24:42Rachel Cruze:Sure. So we're like paying interest. Yeah. Yeah, it's not crazy though in relation to your income. I thought you were going to say it was going to be like a$5 ,000 mortgage or a$6 ,000 mortgage. Yeah. So, yeah, your house, I don't think Lauren is the problem. I mean, genuinely. Like we say 25 % and you guys are a little bit above that, But I think over time, you guys will get within that range pretty quickly. What's the opportunity? Go ahead.

25:14Dr. John Delony:I'm sorry. I think where we're at is we still owe$412 ,000 on this house that we're not necessarily wanting to. Like our kids are getting older. They're getting into their teens. And we're kind of thinking about like the next five to ten years. Do we want to put another$400 ,000 into this house that we don't need this much space, you know, either? So it's like it looks good to watch the dead out and start over. Lauren, that's the question. Yeah. Like if you don't love this house and you don't want to live there and y 'all want to downsize, that's awesome. My gut tells me. We love the house. It's just a lot of houses for no more kids in a few years.

25:53Dr. John Delony:Sure. Part of me thinks that the grind is what y 'all need. Okay. That just getting up every day and figuring out, hey, can he go work in somebody else's shop on Saturdays? And all this is hard because y 'all have kids entering in those ages when you got a 15-year-old, you start counting the days, right? Like we got three years and then he's gone, right? And so I get all of that. If you told me, you know what, dude, we're going to sell this house anyway when one of our kids leaves and we're just going to be four of us, then yeah, sure. Put it on the market and sell it, especially if that wipes out all of your debts and whatever.

26:31Dr. John Delony:I think you're being pretty optimistic about the solar loan getting absorbed, but maybe not. Maybe not. Well, we assumed it. That's how we got it. Okay, okay. We bought the house, and it's kind of a thing in our area. Okay, yeah. So I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about when I spoke to a realtor this morning, she said, we're probably not going to get close to what we would need to in order to cover realtor fees and closing costs because it's apparently a buyer's market right now. And so our profit would we've only been here for two years in this house. Oh, so you don't have equity in it.

27:10Dr. John Delony:Not much. OK, then for sure. She said we could probably she said we could probably sell it for four sixty to four seventy.

27:15Rachel Cruze:We owe four twelve. So that was pretty much, you know. Okay, so Lauren, that would be the trade-off. So listen, if you guys decided to do that now, you wouldn't get, would you make a ton? What would you make on, because you said you would barely cover all the fees, the realtor fees and everything. So you really wouldn't make a ton to pay off the present debt. It would be more of a future of saying, oh, we only have to pay off a$300 ,000 mortgage versus a 450. And you guys feel like you can swallow that easier, right? stomach that easier. So what I would suggest, though, is I think that's a long-term problem that you're seeing and feeling that actually may be relieved once you're debt-free from consumer debt.

27:58Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And you're going to have to turn around and rent a house for$2 ,500 for five people, minimum, right? Probably$3 ,000. It would save you a little bit, but I don't think that's the big rock here. The big rock, I mean, if you told me you were going to be able to save$3 ,000 a month or you had$100 ,000 in equity, that would make sense. But this isn't moving your position anywhere. In fact, it's making your life more complicated.

28:25Rachel Cruze:Yeah, because you guys have about six grand left after you pay the mortgage. Where is all that going?

28:32Dr. John Delony:We just, like I said, we just started the every dollar up. We were eating our money as Yeah, there you go.

28:38Rachel Cruze:There you go. And we've gotten better on it. Yeah. So what I would say is what's crazy about when you look all this out, and I did a rough map real quick of a calendar for you all. But I'm like, if you could find$3 ,000 a month, that's finding in every dollar the expenses, which actually probably$2 ,000 of it could be sitting in there that you don't know about when you just actually shore everything up and say we're not spending anything. And then you guys go make some extra cash on the side. And in that example, it would just be an extra thousand bucks of you working a little bit more or him working, you know, a Saturday or two a month.

29:10Rachel Cruze:You guys could have your$3 ,000 debt knocked out, your credit card debt knocked out, and his student loan debt all by August. Like if you threw a three grand at this stuff every single month, and then you're down to the$7 ,500, and you can knock that out in two months, right? And then you're looking at the solar and your student loan debt, which will be, those will take longer for sure. But I'm just saying a lot of these ankle biter stuff, if you guys really, really tighten up and say, hey, we are going to spend nothing. We are going to work extra and we're going to put three to four grand more than what we're doing today on this debt.

29:50Rachel Cruze:You know, you, you know, two, two and a half years, you guys are out.

29:53Dr. John Delony:You know something we do in my house? I actually, part of my kids, I don't use the word allowance, but part of the things we pay them for is each kid does one meal a week. And so it's tough if you're working nail tech all day, you're exhausted, your husband's underneath machines all day. You got three kids. Have each one of them be responsible for a meal. Pay them each$10 a week for cooking or whatever. they get to earn a little tiny little bit of money but you all save a jillion dollars by not eating out all the time yeah we've done a lot better this month but yeah it's still pretty significant like we need to cut it out completely it's just kind of we're trying to ease into it don't ease into it cannonball cannonball baby sure yeah and and you know what lauren i would

30:40Rachel Cruze:i would just i would grind it out because you guys if you guys had three hundred thousand dollars of equity and you're like we want to downsize or something you know you could make it make sense But right now it doesn't because you don't have the equity, which you guys are barely going to even just break even on a problem. Again, that is so far in the future. I would fix this stuff in two, two and a half years. And then you guys look up five years owning the home. If there's some equity and you still want to downsize, then I would make that move.

31:24Dr. John Delony:Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance.

32:03Dr. John Delony:Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. if you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

32:35Dr. John Delony:And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

33:17Rachel Cruze:All right, next up is Andrew in Salt Lake City. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

33:23Dr. John Delony:Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

33:25Rachel Cruze:Absolutely. how can we help?

33:28Dr. John Delony:So I'm 22 years old and I make$120 ,000 a year. And I have been since August, but I've been in my career for about two and a half years now. And I kind of have a car question. So I currently drive, or I used to drive an older Toyota Tacoma. Now I had that and then I had a 24 Corolla hybrid. So it's kind of like my commuter. I drive about 25 to 30 ,000 miles a year. um but i ended up selling my truck because it ended up getting into an accident i sold it for 500 bucks more than i bought it for um and i was kind of wondering you know if i could be able to get into maybe another truck or a four-runner type vehicle just because i got three dogs i like to go camping fishing a lot that's like what i my main hobby um i have about 25 000 in savings and 25 $5 ,000 in investments, 401k, Roth IRA.

34:24Yeah.

34:25Dr. John Delony:I'm curious what I would be able to do.

34:29Rachel Cruze:And so what are you currently driving right now? A Corolla Hybrid. Okay.

34:36Dr. John Delony:Bro, that car is going to, just as it's on the side, my wife got a Corolla right before we got married, and I drove it forever. And I just said, as soon as this thing dies, I'll get myself something else. I finally gave up. That car will never die. You'll have that Corolla till the end of time. Forever. I know. And that's why I was just like, I don't want it. Yeah, I drive a lot for work, so I get paid about 75 cents a mile. Nice. So the car is basically free. Yes. But it's about$19 ,000 on the note, which I haven't paid a dime towards.

35:10Rachel Cruze:Oh, you owe$19 ,000 on the Corolla?

35:14Dr. John Delony:Yes, I do.

35:15Rachel Cruze:Oh, okay.

35:17Dr. John Delony:If I owned it outright, I think it would be a different story. I would pay that off before I bought anything else. And I know that's like, dude, I'm an outdoorsman. I know that's like a kick in the teeth. But running, you're one getting laid off or you're one, they're going to reduce the mileage. Or you're one, your current situation is based on somebody else's decision. and we wouldn't have jobs if people weren't faced with that every single day.

35:46Rachel Cruze:Yeah. How much is it worth?

35:50Dr. John Delony:My trade-in value is about$26 ,000 right now.

35:53Rachel Cruze:Oh, it's worth$26 ,000. Well, if you could figure out a way to finagle selling it and putting a little bit of money of your$25 ,000, you got to pay it off and have a little bit to put towards something and get a used paid off car or truck, I would consider that if you wanted to do that. But the thing is, you're technically on baby step two, right? So when you're working the Ramsey plan. And if you paid off the car, you'd have$6 ,000 and a$25 ,000 paid off car, technically, right? Because what you said it was worth, you get$25 ,000 for? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. So if that's the case, you got$6 ,000 in savings and a$25 ,000 car.

36:42Rachel Cruze:If you wanted to trade the$25 ,000 car for a$25 ,000 truck, you could do that, right? Like if you wanted to get something that you wanted, I'd be okay with that. And then you got to beef up that$6 ,000 emergency fund to probably a three-month emergency fund for maybe step three and then go on for investing all of it. But no, you don't need a brand new truck. And I don't think you need anything worth more than the car you're currently driving once it's paid off.

37:08Dr. John Delony:I agree. I guess the question after that would be for my mileage per year, being like a high mileage driver and essentially being forced to for work. How do you think that factors into like the, you know, how people talk about the affordability of vehicles and kind of how I'm essentially bottlenecked into a certain type of vehicle? because gas mileage, they don't pay for fuel.

37:32Rachel Cruze:Yeah, well, that's going to have to be a decision that you make. I don't know, Andrew, do you want to pay for the truck mileage, you know, and the gas for a truck? Yeah. That would be your decision. Can you do that in your monthly budget, and is that worth it for you?

37:46Dr. John Delony:Well, 75 cents a mile should cover that, right? Yeah, it covers it. I mean, that's what that money's for. Yeah, I'm profiting about, I would say,$35 a gallon of gas.

38:02Rachel Cruze:Are you trying to figure out how to keep the Corolla and get a truck?

38:06Dr. John Delony:That's what I wanted to do originally. That's the setup I had before. I wouldn't do that until you paid off the Corolla. I wouldn't do it until you paid off the Corolla and... And paid cash for a truck. And paid cash for a truck.

38:20Rachel Cruze:Yeah.

38:21Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And by the way, dude, until last year, my daily driver to work was an 06 Tundra that got like one and a half miles a gallon. But it was awesome. And again, you're a Toyota guy like me. It'll go to the end of time, right? And so I wouldn't use this as an opportunity to upgrade cars and get a newer Tacoma or get a newer Ford. Like if you're going to buy a camping car, I would buy a camping car, right? But even then, I wouldn't do it until after I paid off that Corolla. I think you say you're 22 or 23, is that right? Yep. Okay. I'm trying to picture myself at 22 or 23 making 120 grand, which I wasn't even anywhere near that world.

39:04Dr. John Delony:I can't imagine that you don't feel like you're rich and you are for a 22-year-old. No, you'd be surprised. I really don't. Okay. Well, if you're getting 75 cents a mile and you're driving and you're making 120 grand, you're doing insanely well for 22 years old. I want you to listen to two people like years after 22. You're literally one email away from your boss saying, hey, we're going, we can't afford it because of conflicts in the Middle East. So we're going to go down to 25 cents a mile. Or we're cutting jobs.

39:39Rachel Cruze:We're cutting jobs or whatever.

39:41Dr. John Delony:And man, you're just so exposed right now, even though it doesn't feel like it. Yep.

39:47Rachel Cruze:Yep. So Andrew, we would pay off your Corolla today because you have the money for it. And then beyond that, if you want to trade the Corolla for something else, you can do that. Or if you want to save up on the side to get a truck or a camping thing and you want to, you can just pay cash and buy used.

40:02Dr. John Delony:And this sounds cheesy, man, but if you look at your actual life, I remember one time when my wife and I moved from Houston. And I didn't want to move because I was like, man, we go to Astros games. We go to concerts and all this. And she said, all right, how many baseball games did we go to last year? And I was like, okay, two. And she said, how many trips when we were living across the state did we go back to Houston to see games? Two, right? And so it was like, if you look at your life and you actually go fishing once a month, go rent a truck. Go rent one and drop it off. And it will be$150 or$200.

40:39Dr. John Delony:And call it good, turn the keys back in, and keep your life, keep your cash to yourself.

40:43Rachel Cruze:Yeah, or God forbid, just take the Corolla.

40:45Dr. John Delony:Take the crawl, pile the dogs in.

40:47Rachel Cruze:I mean, honestly.

40:49Dr. John Delony:Put your tent in the truck and call it, man. Yeah. Enjoy your life.

40:51Rachel Cruze:Absolutely. I know. When you put so much of your money, and especially you starting off, Andrew, like you got$25 ,000 in retirement, which is great,$25 ,000. You're doing some great stuff. But when you start to shift that focus to more consumer-based, oh, I want this. Especially depreciating asset things. Especially a car, right? That you're like, okay, I'm going to just add on, add on. Um, it, you're just, just watch the habits that you're starting to build at 22 is what I would say. That'd be my word of caution of just, instead of kind of just figuring it out and just getting what you need to kind of like take a, you know, have for your life and be like, yes, I need this car.

41:29Rachel Cruze:Not so much great for work, but great for my leisure activities or whatever. That's fine. But, um, but yeah, buying the two cars right now, uh, I don't know. It just feels, it feels excessive.

41:40Dr. John Delony:42 year old. You will wish when you're, you're married, you got some kids, 42 year old. you will wish you had a whole bunch of money in the bank, not two cars when you're 22. And just think about 42-year-old you. You'll be able to go on some wicked awesome camping trips when you got cash.

41:57Rachel Cruze:Yep, for sure. And you're almost there, Andrew. Again, hear us say, you're on the right track. You're dominating. But again, pay off that car today. You have the money. Do not be paying a car loan with interest on a depreciating asset for another month. Don't do it. So just pay it off. You'll have the six grand. And then actually when you start working with Cash Andrew, it kind of changes your mindset. It makes you think twice about something, right? When you have debt and you're like, okay, I can afford that payment here or this thing over here because it's just these small payments month to month.

42:26Rachel Cruze:It doesn't feel like a big deal. But when you actually start living within your means and spending your own money, it actually changes the game and actually may change your mind once you have it paid off. And you're like, man, I don't know if I want to spend or save up for another car. I kind of want to save up and start investing or doing something else with this money.

43:03Dr. John Delony:If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than 43 ,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on. It's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business, accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting.

43:59Dr. John Delony:If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey.

44:19Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Minneapolis. I'll pronounce it correctly this hour. And we have Monica on the line. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the show. Hi, I'm a huge fan. Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in.

44:44Dr. John Delony:We're a huge fan of yours, Monica. So what's up? So I have a question. We're just kind of having a debate, my husband and I, about how much I should be spending a month. And I want to be within budget, but I'm kind of confused on what's acceptable and what's not. Less than your budget. Ta-da. Right.

45:08Rachel Cruze:There you go. Solved. Okay.

45:11Dr. John Delony:Okay, so I'm just messing with you. What's your confusion? Me and Rachel love solving marital disputes, so we're going to solve this one.

45:17Rachel Cruze:We love spenders like you, Monica. We're glad you called. Well, I used to not be a spender because I had no money.

45:24Dr. John Delony:Good. And then we had children, and they need all the things. Oh, are you one of those moms that likes your kids to have shoes and stuff? Yeah. Boo. Boo. Yeah, I just feel like the kids' expenses just pop up. Keep happening. She's rough on her tennis shoes, and the next thing you know, she needs a new pair of shoes. Totally, totally. So what's your husband upset about? I do spend too much, but that's what I ask. I said, well, do you want me to stop going to the personal trainer, which we spend too much money on, but it is really beneficial. so she's more of like a physical therapist and helped my back get a lot better.

46:05Dr. John Delony:Okay. He said, nope, not that. He's like, you're not into like brand names and all that, so I'm not worried about what you spend on clothes and not worried about the hair salon. You can always go there. And I was just like, so what then?

46:19Rachel Cruze:It's almost like he just has this random feeling. There's no like actual hard data. Well, I am spending too much, though. On what? Why do you say that? Our house is paid off.

46:32Dr. John Delony:Our cars are paid off. I don't know how much insurance costs and things like that because I'm kind of a child when it comes to that end of who's in charge of the relationship. But I'm spending$12 ,000 a month. And I know$2 ,000 is on groceries. $150 is on the gym. $480 is a personal trainer. $200 a month on hair. And then I don't have a tally on all the things. There's a lot left. Where's the other$10 ,000? Right. I know. I'm racking my brain, and I think it's – I mean, I garden, so we buy a lot of stuff for the garden. And when I say garden, it's, yes, some flowers, but it's also a lot of vegetables and stuff.

47:15Dr. John Delony:Yeah, but we do that too, and my wife collects seeds, and, like, I don't know how big your gardens are.

47:21Rachel Cruze:How much do you guys make a year?

47:24Dr. John Delony:Almost$400.

47:27Rachel Cruze:And you're completely debt-free?

47:31Dr. John Delony:my my my big concern here is that you don't know where it's going dollars a month is going because y 'all are like i'm going to say this nicely but y 'all are wealthy y 'all are doing really well i'm not offended about anything you say no i know i know i know i know you're a nice person y 'all y 'all are doing really well my concern is it it's i i'm in your husband's camp here that I want my wife to spend what she wants to spend. I want her to feel good. I want her to do all those things that make her who she is. And then there's 10 ,000 more dollars a month that are unaccounted for. And I'm troubled here that you don't even have a ballpark.

48:15Dr. John Delony:You don't seem to have any idea where that money's going. we i i'm that mom that like every holiday has to be super special but i know that i decorate for all of it we have a trail in our backyard that i decorate for halloween and then we decorate it for christmas and decorate for easter and their birthdays and so you're dropping like two grand on something like that and not really thinking much about it probably like it'll be that kind of stuff that you're doing okay um okay so you're spending you said 12 grand you guys what hits your

48:47Rachel Cruze:account every month probably 30 i don't know okay okay so here because it's inconsistent it's a i

48:56Dr. John Delony:don't want to get into detail but it's a job okay that's fine okay do you guys one month are you

49:00Rachel Cruze:guys intentional with how much you're giving and saving every month you'll have goals he is super

49:07Dr. John Delony:good with that stuff he is investments and things he showed me paperwork and i think i have dyslexia with numbers. Okay, so I'm going to have a hot take here. Okay, because of how much you make,

49:20Rachel Cruze:considering everything is paid off. Okay, y 'all have not you have, you're, you're fine. If you're investing, I'm going to pretend, Monica, that you guys are investing in retirement. You have your future is being taken care of the kids college is being taken care of you're giving I'm going to just assume you're being very responsible people. You're at a high bar. And then you have, you know,$25 ,000,$30 ,000 left a month. Okay. Hot take. If everything else is taken care of. The number doesn't like super throw me off. It's not like you guys can't afford it. Here's what's throwing me off. Two things, Monica.

49:56Rachel Cruze:Number one, you personally don't know where this money's going. There's no line item for Easter. And God forbid, Monica puts, for some people, they're going to think you are insane that you're going to put$1 ,500 for your Easter trail. I know, but that's where you're choosing to spend it. And you have it, Monica, because I want to stick up for you.

50:14Dr. John Delony:A hundred percent. But even that you said Christmas, Easter, and Halloween, if you spend 2 ,000 bucks a month decorating the trail behind your house, that's 6 ,000 bucks. You spend double that every month.

50:28Rachel Cruze:Okay, so that's what I'm saying, though. At least if I knew, you knew where this money's going, and you had a self-check of like, okay, that feels right for me. And X, Y, and Z, everyone values different things. Everyone throws their one-year-old a birthday party, looks like a wedding reception. I don't get why, but people do it and it's fine. If you have the money, I'm not mad at you. It's not a moral thing. So this is where, so I want to fight for you in the sense of like, you guys have done so well. Okay. And you are allowed to spend some money, but the problem is back, I'm rambling. One is you don't know where the money's going, Monica.

50:59Rachel Cruze:Big problem. If you can map out exactly what's going on, then we can actually have an adult conversation. And then number two, you don't know what's going on with any of your money. Like you've said, you've deferred to your husband three or four different times on this call. And that's a problem. That's a problem.

51:14Dr. John Delony:I think your husband's statement, you're spending too much is if I got to the thing beneath the thing of that statement, it is, it's out of control. You're immature in this relationship and I'm having to do all this by myself.

51:27Rachel Cruze:Yeah. You're more like the child and he's having the parent that's having to take care of everything.

51:31Dr. John Delony:He doesn't want to be your dad. He wants to be your husband. Yes. And that means you...

51:35Rachel Cruze:You have to be a partner in this.

51:36Dr. John Delony:You come to him tonight and say, I've acted like a child and I'm sorry. I don't have dyslexia with numbers. That's not a thing. I don't know how all the investments work and whatever, but I do know how addition and subtraction works. I want to know how much we make. I want to go through our statements over the last three months and go line by line. I want to find out where this money's going. And I promise that if we make a budget, I'll stick to it. Okay.

52:03Rachel Cruze:And Monica, and it's going to be a good exercise for you because part of handling money, if the numbers work, like, right, that's our first big checkmark. I feel like it's like when we look at the data, do the numbers work. And yes, you're not going into debt for this stuff like the numbers work. But there's also a spiritual component to money that you're not being a great manager of your money. You're sloppy with it, right? So again, I'm not mad that you're spending money, but you're spending it on impulse and what feels good and what I need to do in the moment.

52:30Dr. John Delony:And with no accountability.

52:31Rachel Cruze:And that's not a good character building moment. You need some discipline in it.

52:36Dr. John Delony:And your husband needs a partner.

52:38Rachel Cruze:Yes, yes. So all those things combined, Monica, you guys may get to the end of this and say, yes, we're still going to spend$1 ,500 on the trail. And that's fine. That's what you're deciding to spend. But at least you're doing it as an adult with a rational thought behind it as a good manager.

53:21Dr. John Delony:We'll be right back. and you don't last that long by cutting corners. You last by serving people well. There's a reason their name is on the studio wall. They've built products that help you manage money intentionally, not pull you into debt. If you're looking for a practical way to organize your money the Ramsey way, check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle. It pairs a high-yield savings account for your emergency fund with a checking account that doesn't drain your balance with fee after fee after fee after fee. Open your Fairwinds Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and get the Ramsey Be Weird debit card.

54:03Dr. John Delony:That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Insured by the NCUA.

54:27Rachel Cruze:Up next, we have Bruce in Philadelphia. Hi, Bruce. Welcome to the show.

54:33Dr. John Delony:Thank you for taking my call. How are you?

54:34Rachel Cruze:Yes, we're doing great. How can we help today?

54:37Dr. John Delony:Well, I have a question. I'll give you a little background. I'm 72. I'm retired. I have roughly about$1.3 million. And I also have a retirement income of about$150 before taxes. And I'm looking to do some – well, I've been investing mostly in CDs. And I don't know if I should continue just rolling over those CDs or going into something a little more aggressive.

55:08Rachel Cruze:Yeah, for sure. So is the$1.3 in CDs?

55:13Dr. John Delony:No, the 1.3 is, some of it is in IRAs and the rest of it, yeah, it's spread out, some of it's spread out into CDs, yeah

55:21Rachel Cruze:Oh, okay, some of the 1.3, how much of the 1.3 is in CDs?

55:29Rachel Cruze:About 500 ,000 Oh, wow, okay And the 150 that you're living off of, is that coming out of the 1.3?

55:39Dr. John Delony:some of it is most of it's coming from retirement pension and social security oh okay great awesome

55:46Rachel Cruze:um well yes short answer is yes bruce i would move for sure that 500 yes into into the market yeah of investing it i mean it would be you can look into different types of mutual funds you can look at index funds um but with the market kind of the the rule of 72 just the quick math is investing it, usually you double your money in seven years. So in seven years, you would have a million. Seven years later, you'd have two million. Where CDs, you're making like maybe three percent? Yeah, 3.7. I mean, you could move it all into a high-yield

56:23Dr. John Delony:savings account and make more than that. If you move half a million dollars, somebody will give you three and a half or four percent on that money. What are you at right now? Two and three quarters?

56:36Dr. John Delony:Can you repeat that? I'm sorry. What interest are you generating on those CDs? Some of them are at 4%, I think.

56:47Rachel Cruze:Yeah, 3.7%, yeah. A couple of them are at 5%. Well, so, yeah, so if you think about it, the market, I mean, it's, I mean, again, depending on your, it's kind of so volatile, I feel like this calendar year. But overall, you're going to, on average, safe is 10%. So, and that's just safe, right? Some years, I mean, the past, what, two years, it was like at 23%. I mean, it was crazy what you could do. And especially since you don't need the money, right? Because you do want to kind of let it ride out in case you put the money in. And if you needed it in two months, it takes them out. That wouldn't feel great if it was dropping a little bit.

57:24Rachel Cruze:But letting it all kind of just have some time to settle into the market and let the market settle, right? It's ups and downs. I would for sure, Bruce, yes I would put that into the market instead of CDs, without a doubt or to put it in a different way

57:41Dr. John Delony:neither Rachel nor I put our money in, have one dollar in a CD so it's not like us just telling you something hypothetical

57:48Rachel Cruze:and I don't think we've ever once told anyone to put money in CDs either, Bruce so yeah, it is from the track record of what the market's doing it is safe, and I understand even at your age of being cautious with it right and saying like okay where are we at but honestly 72 still is pretty young i'm like you could if you're in good health you could have 20 years yeah i mean seriously so um so no i would definitely put it in the market um not only because it's the best investment but also you don't need the money the income that you're getting is from pensions and social security you're not even using most of it so if there is a little bit of dip and you don't need to take out as much it's not going to hurt that bad so uh it's a great question and bruce well done uh yeah

58:27Dr. John Delony:Excellent, brother.

58:28Rachel Cruze:Unbelievable. Unbelievable. All right. Let's go to Tibby in Jacksonville. Hi. Welcome to the show. Hi. How are you guys today? Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

58:41Dr. John Delony:So we have kind of an interesting situation.

58:48Dr. John Delony:We have about$25 ,000 in savings. Um, we, the only debt that we have is a travel trailer that we're actively paying off. Uh, we just paid off my husband's student loans. Other than that, we don't have any other debt aside from our house. And, um, through a series of unfortunate events, we, I just discovered that we actually have mold growing on the bottom side of our couch. Oh. throw it away well my question is do we dip into the emergency fund for that is that something that's worthy of an emergency fund pull some chairs around you'll be fine I know we have a 10 month old though your 10 month old you're going to get a new couch your 10 month old is going to shotgun out of both ends on that new couch

59:49Rachel Cruze:and spill milk on it which is going to cause more mold you don't want anything nice right now no no no i mean buy a couch i wouldn't we're joking

59:59Dr. John Delony:you for real would not buy a couch i i well listen you have to understand that it was when my first book went number one that my wife asked hey we have a bed frame that you bought off craigslist for 50 and spray painted can we get a real bed so i'm probably not the best furniture guy in the world to ask, but I would, if it was my house, pull some couches, I mean, pull some chairs, some shenanigans, sit on the floor with your kid or whatever. And by the way, not having a couch in the living room, well, you'll have more action with your kid on the floor. You'll actually go to bed on time and not run for the TV.

1:00:38Dr. John Delony:It could change your life in a bunch of positive ways.

1:00:40Rachel Cruze:Okay.

1:00:40Dr. John Delony:Look, but that's not why you're calling me. I know.

1:00:42Rachel Cruze:Um, all right. Rooms to go. Sofas from $3.99. I'd be okay if you spend$400 on rooms to go sofa.

1:00:51Dr. John Delony:I'll go with Rachel if you have to have a couch.

1:00:54Rachel Cruze:And you cannot take it out of your emergency fund. You've got to take it out of your restaurant budget or something else. You've got to cash flow the couch. Yeah, that was my other thing. Cash flow the couch.

1:01:04Dr. John Delony:You have a 10-month-old. Don't buy nice stuff.

1:01:07Rachel Cruze:Please get a gross... I say a gross one. It can be new. It doesn't have to be old and used and gross. A new couch. But cash flow it out of our monthly income. Yes. And a cheap couch. A cheap couch. That's how I was trying to say. Cheap. Cheap. Okay.

1:01:29Dr. John Delony:We wouldn't go expensive. We're a military family. Things get broken with every move. Yes. We're pretty basic when it comes to our furniture. Get a couch. If you have to get a couch, get one that you'll leave when you move. Just leave it. We can do that. Yeah.

1:01:46Rachel Cruze:Okay. Well, and Tibby, you didn't call about this, but you guys have$25 ,000 in savings. Is that what you said?

1:01:51Dr. John Delony:Yeah. We have a$25 ,000 emergency fund. All total investments between my IRA mutual fund.

1:02:02Rachel Cruze:How much is on the camper? How much is left on the trailer? $30 ,000.

1:02:07Dr. John Delony:Pay it off today. Pay it off. No, she can't.

1:02:09Rachel Cruze:They have$25 ,000.

1:02:10Dr. John Delony:They're close.

1:02:12Rachel Cruze:I know. Yeah, go ahead and give them.

1:02:14Dr. John Delony:The only reason we have that is because of the nature of my husband's job in the Air Force. It's rather dangerous. So it makes me feel much more secure to have that in the event of the knock at the door. Yeah, I get that.

1:02:34Rachel Cruze:Does he have life insurance? Do you guys have life insurance?

1:02:37Dr. John Delony:We have it through the military right before he was leaving on deployment. that's the other thing he's currently deployed so I'm trying to figure all of this out but right before he left for deployment is when we were going to start going through Xander and getting quotes and all of that stuff we just pre-deployment didn't have time to get that

1:03:00Rachel Cruze:added on there I want you guys to do that ASAP and on you too Tibby if something happened to you and you guys need 10 to 12 times your annual income sometimes with people that have insurance through their companies or through the military, it's not enough. And so get Term Life. Check out our friends at Zander Insurance because they're an insurance broker that actually shop all different companies to get you the lowest rate. So you guys, yeah, be looking at that for real though because I understand the safety net of wanting that money. That makes total sense. But also if you knew that other aspects were being taken care of financially, you would be able to use cash today to help you guys in your present situation get along further, faster to wealth building, which would be paying off this debt.

1:03:43Rachel Cruze:So you guys consider that. Look at the life insurance. And if there's enough, I would. I would get rid of this. You're paying payments on something in interest that's going down in value. So getting rid of that debt is going to be huge for you guys.

1:04:07you

1:04:14Dr. John Delony:Let me tell you something I see all the time. People are working hard, trying to get control of their money, and then their phone bill shows up higher than expected. Again. And they don't even know why. That's why I want you to switch to Boost Mobile. Here's the truth. Your phone bill should fit your budget, not the other way around. Your wireless company is counting on you just paying it without asking questions. With Boost Mobile, you can unlock big savings compared to the so-called big guys. Bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just$25 a month forever on their unlimited plan. No contracts, no confusing fees, and that$25 price is locked in forever.

1:04:53Dr. John Delony:And if you're skeptical, that's fine. Boost Mobile backs it up with a 30-day money-back guarantee, meaning you can try it without feeling trapped. So stop overpaying for something you use every day. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan.

1:05:33Rachel Cruze:We wish we could get to every call here on the Ramsey show, but we can't. So if you have a money question, though, we have an answer for your situation. So you can go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool, and it's built and trained on proven money principles that we've been talking about. I mean, this whole system that they've built has, I mean, every answer in there is from the past couple years of shows, all of our books, articles. I mean, anything and everything Ramsey has put out content-wise is in there. And it's wild how personalized it can get because it will remember you and your situation, but you can put in specific numbers, all of it, and it will spit out an answer like you have called the Ramsey.

1:06:14Rachel Cruze:show. So get your question answered today at RamseySolutions.com at the Ask Ramsey tool. So you make sure to check it out. Or if you are listening on podcast or YouTube, we'll put a link below. All right, let's head to Bill in Seattle. Hi, Bill. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello. How are you today? I'm doing good. How are you guys? We are doing great. How can we help?

1:06:42Dr. John Delony:So my question to you guys is whether I should continue moving forward with getting engaged with my girlfriend, you know, even though I see her as kind of being financially irresponsible. Run, Bill, run!

1:07:00Rachel Cruze:No, stop that.

1:07:01Dr. John Delony:No. I'm just playing. I'm playing. Tell us more. What does financially irresponsible mean? Um, it means that she, uh, she still kind of nickels and dimes us to death. So when it comes to those small expenses, like eating out and getting a cup of coffee, I think there's very little consideration on her part in terms of how those expenses can accumulate over time. um and i guess the other big thing too is um you know not not a steady source of income from her hand so that when we have big expenses like our um like our animals at appointments um you know it usually ends up me sharing the financial burden um more so are y 'all are y 'all living together?

1:07:57Dr. John Delony:Yes. So we are, yeah, I'm a, uh, that's what this is kind of all about is I'm a 30 year old living in my girlfriend's parents' basement. Oh, there's that. Okay, cool. Lead with, lead with that next time, brother. Um, all right. So how much of this, it's just, listen, it's just two dudes. Rachel happens to be here and like a couple of million people just listen in. Okay. How much of this is you've got to see up close? I don't know if this is a person I want to spend the rest of my life with. Because here's the thing. I skipped a final exam to run across campus because I knew that's a place that my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, would be walking across campus at a certain time.

1:08:47Right?

1:08:48Dr. John Delony:So if it was really that she spent too much on cups of coffee and didn't work very often and you were head over heels, this was your person, you'd be calling us in 10 years saying she won't get a job and she spent you all under the poorhouse. What else is going on that's making you start to question this thing? um well we we've been together for such a long time and um i think we we've had our ups and downs but eventually um i feel like recently in my life i've gone through a stage of maturity and i and that certainly means financial maturity and um and i think that is what i have yet to see from her, especially in recent times.

1:09:38Dr. John Delony:And I know if I want to take that next step with her, that is something that we certainly have to agree. How old is she? She is 28. Okay.

1:09:48Rachel Cruze:So it's more of a maturity over on who she is, but what you're seeing and what's coming out is the money side too.

1:09:55Dr. John Delony:Yes. And here's, oh man, this is a double-edged sword, all right, brother? And Rachel, tell me, knock me off my pedestal like you're so good at doing, Rachel. Would love to, John. My concern here is a double-edged sword. One, you have somebody who isn't working, seems to be content living at home with her parents, whatever, and never has any money and continues to rack up expenses. There's that. Honestly, my bigger concern right now is you are starting to feel like you are better than her. And that is, man, that is the, you're tilling the soil to plant the seeds for contempt. And contempt is one of the Gottman's four horsemen that will just destroy your relationship.

1:10:40Dr. John Delony:It's you sitting up in the lifeguard tower of a local pool looking down on, instead of sitting with her and saying, hey, what's our plan to get out of your parents' basement? right what's your financial future what what job are you going to have how are we what kind of future do we want to build together and if she won't participate in that yeah you've got you've got bigger issues yeah have y 'all had conversations bill about it we recently three weeks ago tried to have a completely clean slate where we you know push everything behind us in the past and we just look forward and we don't bring up anything that happened in the past.

1:11:17And it seems like I'm

1:11:21Dr. John Delony:getting that sense of financial urgency from her, but then there's still those moments where, again, she has a small unnecessary expense. Or just yesterday, if I may say, she had spent approximately least$60 to get us concert tickets. Um, and it's still those things that occur that prevent me from, um, you know, giving her my full trust financially speaking. Well, it's tough because y 'all aren't married. And so I wouldn't tell you to make a budget together because y 'all are just boyfriend and girlfriend living in her parents' basement, right? Like if y 'all were married, if y 'all were engaged and y 'all were starting to think through, we're going to make a budget together and we're going to high five each other and stick to this budget that we've made.

1:12:10Dr. John Delony:And then she was like, look out, surprise, concert tickets. Then yeah,

1:12:14Rachel Cruze:you'd have broken something that you've said together. Yes.

1:12:16Dr. John Delony:But if y 'all are just dating and you've been dating a long time and you're just sitting in your in-law, I mean, in your girlfriend's parents' basement saying like, Hey, we need to get our stuff together. And she's like, yeah, yeah.

1:12:27Rachel Cruze:I mean, I've created no situation where she has to. Right. And I hear what you're saying, Bill, I do hear, I wish she had this self, you know, motivation to, can she keep a job? Like, what's the job situation?

1:12:44Dr. John Delony:So I have two jobs. I work full-time at a target and part-time as a math tutor at Mathnasium, and I work approximately 40 to 55 hours a week. And I'd say it brings me in approximately$3 ,500 to$4 ,000 a month.

1:12:57Rachel Cruze:And what does she do?

1:12:59Dr. John Delony:So she just has side gigs. She does a lot of pet sitting. It's been picking up a little bit because it's springtime and summertime and people want to travel. The other thing, I guess, too, is she does have her mom who owns a lice removal service company, and she has lots of experience with doing that. And that's actually a very nice job because they get a lot but she will work she won't work it though well in this

1:13:29Rachel Cruze:that's yes okay okay yes so i can i can feel okay bill but you're in the same you're a little bit i'm gonna group you all in the same situation you're both living with at her parents house i hear you trying you're a he's turned a corner you have and he's like i want to do something with my life, create financial stability, and she's pet sitting, which again, nothing's wrong with pet sitting, but that's for a full-time career. If she was doing it 60 hours a week. Not for a 28-year-old. Not for a 28-year-old, right? And it could be a great side gig, but I do see the lack of initiation on her side.

1:14:04Rachel Cruze:And that is...

1:14:05Dr. John Delony:Very concerning.

1:14:06Rachel Cruze:Yes, that's concerning. So I see that.

1:14:08Dr. John Delony:It's concerning that her mom still speaks into y 'all's life, right? So here's the thing. The only thing you can control is you. if you were my son in this exact situation I would tell you go get a one bedroom apartment today yes

1:14:26Rachel Cruze:praise hands emoji

1:14:27Dr. John Delony:I want you to have skin in the game of your life and you're not going to accumulate wealth as much as you want whatever and then say we're not breaking up but I need to get out of underneath your mom and dad as my parents and I need to start creating a life as me as a 30 year old man

1:14:46Rachel Cruze:Yes.

1:14:47Dr. John Delony:And then you can see with clear eyes, does she want to join your team till death do you part? Or does she want to live under her mommy's roof, pet sitting a few months out of the year, right?

1:14:59Rachel Cruze:That's what I was going to say, John.

1:15:00Dr. John Delony:Dude, high five.

1:15:02Rachel Cruze:Seriously. Yes, it's going to expose and show more of the truth, Bill. When you are on your own and you have the blinders on for your life, does she enter it or does she exit it?

1:15:10Dr. John Delony:And you make your budget for your money.

1:15:42Rachel Cruze:Today's Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why If you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out. But Y-Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real-life situations. So to learn more, go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

1:16:10Dr. John Delony:All right. Today's question comes from Andy in Kansas. Andy writes, My wife says I'm taking the baby steps too seriously. Andy, there's no such thing. All right. Because I'm very focused on paying off our debt using the snowball method. She wants to pay off debt but would like us to save for a vacation and build a larger emergency fund at the same time. We have the$1 ,000 starter emergency fund, but she wants to increase that amount, slow down a bit, and not be so intense about paying off debt. I don't want to create tension between us, but at the same time, I really want to stay focused on becoming debt-free.

1:16:46Dr. John Delony:How can we stay united as a couple while making progress towards our financial goals? This has to be the number one question we get.

1:16:55Rachel Cruze:That one person is like...

1:16:56Dr. John Delony:All in.

1:16:57Rachel Cruze:All in, and the other's like, it'll be fine.

1:16:59Dr. John Delony:Dude, take a few Xanax and relax. Yes, yes, totally.

1:17:05Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and I think for me, it's one of those give and take, give and take, gives and takes, give and takes in marriage. Because there is, there's naturally going to be the free spirit, the one that I do think has the capacity to handle some of maybe the money stress a little bit more. It's just whatever it is, right? Where there's the one that's like, we got to get out of this. The urgency is so big. And maybe I wouldn't put nerd free spirit on those specifically, but that tends to be the personality of the couples we see. But what we find overall or the couples who win financially, and I mean win, like pay off their home, have a million dollars in their retirement, all of it.

1:17:46Rachel Cruze:They are not only shooting for the same goal, but they're for each other in the process. Meaning if I see that this is so important to him, I know it's important and I want to get there, but man, he wants to like, you know, go all out. Okay. For a year, like we'll do it. I can give up a vacation for a year and I can go in and almost in a way of loving him well, of what he is desiring and wanting at the speed of that. Vice versa to the wife, right? If she wants their debt free, she's like, yeah, she's probably going to spend more on a vacation. And he's like, okay, we have the money for it. We're not being irresponsible, but I wouldn't.

1:18:19Rachel Cruze:I would spend it somewhere else. But for her right now, okay, let's just do it because we can. Does that make sense?

1:18:25Dr. John Delony:That is my exact house.

1:18:31Dr. John Delony:If I owe somebody money, I don't sleep. I have anxiety. It drives me crazy. My wife could have a mortgage and a car payment, and she wouldn't lose sleep over it. She wouldn't like it. She would sleep just fine. I have a plan and whatever. Her loving me well, when we were buying a house and we were able to put a big chunk down, we're going to take a mortgage on a little bit of it. We sat down and I said, okay, for this long, it's going to cost me. Can we pay this thing like this? And she said, yes. and when this thing's paid off, we're gonna take a silly vacation. And I was like, I would never spend that on a vacation, all in, right?

1:19:11Dr. John Delony:And so it's us loving each other well. But Andy, what that required though, was that conversation that me and my wife had was not a spreadsheet conversation. It was, hey, here's what this does to me. And she's like, I love you more than any other thing I could have. I'm all in. and life without a vacation for me, I don't like that. And I'm like, I love you more than any of this. Right, so we'll do that too. This is about talking about the thing beneath the thing, which is sitting down and saying, here's what the dead is doing to me. It's making me feel like a failure as a dad, as a husband. It scares me about our future.

1:19:48Dr. John Delony:The economy's bananas right now. AI is gonna kill us all. Say those things out loud and then come up with a plan together. I don't think you're taking the baby steps too seriously, Andy, but I do think you're taking them on all by yourself and that's going to divide your marriage up. And so I think sitting down and having the conversation, the thing beneath the thing. And if you're with a partner that's like, I don't care what you care about. We're having a vacation. Your marriage has bigger issues. That's right. Cause I promise you that's not just showing up there. It's showing up in other places too.

1:20:18Rachel Cruze:Well, and that's it too. I'm like, and we say it all the time that so many calls we get about money issues. They're not really money issues. It's marriage issues. You really do. It is because that's who we are as people to our core, right? Our soulful, spiritual people. Like that's what the complete side of us is. And all this other stuff of life that we've built on top of it, money, you know, all this other stuff, it's all built on top of that. And the problem is you only get to that layer if you're like, here's the spreadsheets and here's how much we can make with the percentage that we're saving here versus the market.

1:20:52Rachel Cruze:And all that's fine. Like that's true, right? Like you can look at the math and absolutely. And some people are like, great, check it off. That's what I needed to see. But for most people, especially from the quality of a marriage perspective, it is getting to understanding what is happening with my spouse. And when you do and you have those conversations, you get to know your spouse on a deeper way.

1:21:13Dr. John Delony:There's nothing greater than seeing and knowing and learning about your spouse. By the way, you're going to be married to 15 or 20 different versions of your spouse over the course of your marriage. So you're always going to be in an act of getting to know and then celebrating the crap out of them. And celebrating your spouse sometimes is we're going to do without a vacation for two years because we're going to get this thing cleaned up. And then we're going to be able to go on whatever stupid vacations we want to go on from now until forever if we just make the sacrifice. But I really want to stay focused on becoming debt free.

1:21:45Dr. John Delony:Andy writes, tell her why. Tell her what's going on in your spirit, in the middle of your chest. Have that conversation.

1:21:50Rachel Cruze:And also this isn't spouses entertaining or having to puff up a spouse on some crazy thing, right? Getting out of debt, which I guess some people would say is crazy. There are things in life that are like, yeah, that's worth fighting for because that really does cause stress, right? You could put money stuff in there, health stuff. Of course. You know, it's not like, oh gosh, I think, which I can go conspiracy, but if you're like, okay, all the cell phones are going down tomorrow. We got to like get bug out back, right? Like it's not like, not factual, right? These are things that are like actually factually affecting people.

1:22:23Rachel Cruze:Correct. Does that make sense? Yes, totally. Like you can put other elements, but money is one of those things that affects people. So I'm saying, Andy, you're not being crazy or like out of this world. Like, oh, my gosh, she's having to like coddle something that's bizarre and weird and like, oh, gosh. It's actually going to create a lot of health in you and in your marriage when money is not a factor because you guys have control over it. All right. Let's hope the cell phones don't go down tomorrow. But if they do, we have Julie in Los Angeles. I don't know what you'd do in Los Angeles if all the cell phones went down.

1:22:55Rachel Cruze:But hey, Julie, how are you? I'm good. Good. How can we help you today?

1:23:00Dr. John Delony:I have a question. First off, I am a debt snowball graduate. My husband and I are from a long time ago, but I'm now a widow and I'm 61. I'm looking to retire at 62, which is about a year away. and I want to know, I'm going to move out of this taxable state into a non-tax state and I want to know based on what assets that I have, how much house can I afford and how should I buy it? You know, mortgage, cash, what should I do?

1:23:33Rachel Cruze:Okay, how much will you have when you sell the house?

1:23:37Dr. John Delony:I don't own one right now. I'm going to retire and then I'm going to move. I want to know how much house I can afford to buy.

1:23:44Rachel Cruze:Okay, how much money do you have saved in retirement? I have about$3 million in investments. Okay. And another million probably in 401Ks. Okay, perfect. Do you know how much just living expenses for you is a month? How much you would probably spend to live comfortably for you?

1:24:07Dr. John Delony:Right now, working and everything, I'm relatively frugal. I'm a graduate from the debt snowball school. Yeah, you've done it.

1:24:15Rachel Cruze:That's great. Right. And so what I would what I would do, Julie, honestly, is I would sit down with a smart investor pro. If you go to Ramsey solutions dot com, you can find one in your area because I would want you to map out and see, OK, if I had to live off of the four million dollars, how much less could I live off of in order to own a home right out? Right. So if you took half a million and bought something with that, you know, you'd have three point five million left. how much per year would you need to see growth for you to live off of, which I think would be plenty. So then you can up it and say, what if I bought a million dollars?

1:24:53Rachel Cruze:Do I need a million dollars? So you're going to actually be able to run some numbers out in calculations to see actually the money that you have to withdraw to live off of, how much would you need? And if you want to leave any to the next generation as well. So I would get with a SmartVestor Pro and run those numbers, but I would assume anywhere from a 400 to a 500 ,000.

1:25:14Dr. John Delony:Easy peasy.

1:25:15Rachel Cruze:You're going to be great and you can pay cash for it, which is awesome, Julie. Well done.

1:25:34Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls. The lines are open at 888-825-5225. All right, we're going to go to John in Houston, Texas.

1:25:51Dr. John Delony:H-Town. What's up, John? Hey, what's going on, y 'all?

1:25:55Rachel Cruze:Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

1:25:58Dr. John Delony:So I am wanting for me and my wife's household income to equal$100 ,000 a year by the end of 2027. I'm currently halfway there and make 51 ,000, but she refuses to work. And when she does work and then quits, she blames it on being bipolar and having anxiety. I'm wondering what I should do to push her to start working and keeping her job. Does she have diagnosed bipolar disorder? She does. Okay. Does she manage it well? Does she take her meds? she takes her meds but as far as managing probably not

1:26:40Rachel Cruze:what does that mean sorry what is that what would that mean she's not managing it well but she is I've known some amazing some folks with

1:26:46Dr. John Delony:bipolar one that are amazing folks but they know I've taken my medication every day for the rest of my life and for folks with especially with bipolar one it's hard because you feel so good it's easy to feel like oh i'm all good now and you got to take your meds but also you have to be intentional about your exercise you have to be intentional about your sleep you have to be intentional about relationships the whole thing and that's what i mean by managing it got it got it um and so she doesn't do that is that right no okay is she still seeing a a counselor yeah she we actually have a schedule for thursday okay um i is this your first time to go with her uh this is this will be my second time okay i want you to lead with this question okay um okay we have some household financial needs and i see needs i see uh abilities in my wife that she doesn't see for herself how can i love her through the transition of being scared of your own body which having bipolar one is as they've i've had people explain it to me it's like you're being betrayed by your own body, right?

1:27:55Dr. John Delony:Some things feel so amazing at them. Some things feel like the end of time and neither of those things are right. And so how can I love her through this transition? And that's going to signal to your wife, I'm on your team and things have to change in our home. And it's going to signal to the therapist, oh, this woman has support, not at the lecturing level, but at the soul level. I'm with her. How can I love her well during this time as she's going to begin managing this thing? Yeah. Right. And then if she's in a positive season right now, if she's in like what I call a, not a manic state or a depressive state, but if she's doing pretty well right now, this is a great conversation to lay out.

1:28:40Dr. John Delony:Like, how can I love you when things get pretty, when you get pretty ramped up and how can I love you when you get pretty ramped down. And go ahead and come up with a game plan now so that when those things hit, hopefully the medication and the life management, all that levels some of that out. But when those things hit, you already have a roadmap. Trying to ask somebody during a manic phase, how can I love you? That's not helpful, right? You've been there, right? And when somebody can't get out of bed, it's hard to be like, well, how can I love you today? But getting that when you're in a good season, that's amazing.

1:29:15Dr. John Delony:And it might be that the$100 ,000 number you have in your head, y 'all may never get there. It might be$75 ,000, and that'll be okay. We have to then reimagine what our life's going to look like, and that's going to be okay too. Yeah, I put the$100 ,000 mark because we're actually$30 ,000 in debt. Okay. And that's hard to pay off only making$51 ,000, right? Right. Yeah. Does she have her spending under control?

1:29:47Um, no.

1:29:48Dr. John Delony:Okay. That might be the front end of this conversation, which is during manic phases, especially we, I hear that a lot that folks just get to spending and spending and spending. So when I know I'm heading into a manic phase, I'm going to put my debit card in a lockbox and you own the, uh, we have a freeze on your credit report and you own the passcode to Amazon prime, right? There's just some low-level basic things that I've seen couples do that work great for those seasons. And you might have to weather a storm. She might come after you for that code or that password, but we're going to hold firm in those seasons.

1:30:25Okay.

1:30:26Rachel Cruze:How long have you guys been married, John?

1:30:29Dr. John Delony:We're going on three years. Okay. Three years.

1:30:34Rachel Cruze:So still learning how to do this well. I'm glad you guys have a good counselor.

1:30:38Dr. John Delony:And can I say this? this doesn't get talked about very much. This is exhausting for you too, right? It's okay for you to feel that way also. Okay. I know she's the one with the diagnosis. I know she's the one struggling inside of her own skin. Totally get that. And you love her to the moon and back, right? And it's frustrating for you too, to try to build some sort of secure life for both of you. That's hard. And so you get to be, I want to give you permission to be frustrated too okay

1:31:12Rachel Cruze:John were you aware of everything before you guys got married

1:31:16Dr. John Delony:so actually I had a couple I had one debt of my own and then when we got married we financed a car and then the rest is just if anything happened she would just panic and then just get a loan for$500 or thousand dollars okay yeah and so that's where putting a freeze on her credit y 'all you don't do that for her but y 'all do that together that in those moments when she panics it it there's a stop gap there right and we're gonna put as many hurdles as possible in front of us so that we together don't make bad decisions for us okay awesome is that cool thanks for the call brother

1:32:00Rachel Cruze:yeah thanks thanks for loving her well while she's struggling for sure yeah and that that is difficult. And I think, you know, and even if someone is not, you know, diagnosed with something like that, there is this realization of, okay, I can only do so much on my end. You know, we were talking about spouses and bringing them on board, right, and working as a team together. But we have found when you create stop gaps together with things like spending, when especially if you see a pattern is so helpful. It is so helpful because you don't realize the ease at which debt can just come into your life or spending can just happen.

1:32:41Dr. John Delony:You can have a bad... I've known people with bipolar one that have one bad weekend and I'm talking 10 or 20 years worth of digging himself out of this hole, right? You can go buy a car and get a$10 ,000 loan and they get two credit cards and burn through them all in a weekend now, right? And what a nightmare that is to untangle. So it's knowing yourself well enough to know and being honest with yourself enough to know my body gets set on fire from the inside out. I panic. I do X, Y, and Z. I need to put some hurdles in my life. Will you help me?

1:33:18Rachel Cruze:And from your experience, not her specifically, but that situation, she could have the ability to have that rational thought and when she's in a good state.

1:33:25Dr. John Delony:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got to expect she's going to come for blood when she's not doing well. And that's part of loving somebody well when they're struggling, right? Yes, with that. And that's okay. That's part of it.

1:33:36Rachel Cruze:It's part of it. Well, John, we're so glad you called in. I hope that's helpful. We're cheering you guys on. Call us back if you need anything.

1:34:18Dr. John Delony:Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:35:11Rachel Cruze:up next we have Tori in Huntsville Alabama hi Tori welcome to the show hi thank you yes absolutely thanks for calling in how can we help

1:35:23Dr. John Delony:so i am currently in baby step number two i currently work for a financial farm and what i do is i deal with equity and although i'm currently paying off my debt there is a test more so like the certifications for equity professionals that you can take i mean for me it would significantly increase my income okay but it is two thousand dollars so my question for you is although I'm still paying off debt, would it be okay to, you know, spend that money to take this test and, you know, more than likely increase the income or should I just wait and try to finish off paying? Because right now, if I stick to my plan, I should be done and completely out of debt next year.

1:36:13Rachel Cruze:Okay. Tori, what are you making now? And if you had the certification, what would you be making?

1:36:20Dr. John Delony:Okay, so I am currently at 68. Okay, five, but minimum on average, about 90 with the certification. Oh, yeah, I would. I would Tori.

1:36:32Rachel Cruze:I would Tori. Yes, because it's pretty guaranteed, right? It's not like you're getting an MBA and you hope you'll get a higher paying job somewhere. It's a pretty like one for one, right?

1:36:40Dr. John Delony:Even if I didn't get the 90, majority of even just even competitors with my own company are paying at the very minimum for an each like for the actual

1:36:50Rachel Cruze:the certified equity professional certification yep still at 85 minimum for most companies that's

1:36:56Dr. John Delony:the lowest i've seen it 100 yes and are you pretty confident i'm confident you can take that you'll take that when you take it you think you'll pass you gotta pass or you have to take it like five times do you know no i think i'll pass i've been actually preparing for it i've been

1:37:13Rachel Cruze:thinking about it for the past year and a half oh my gosh heck yeah i'm like that's like a twenty thousand dollar increase how many months will it take you to save up to pay for this test

1:37:27Dr. John Delony:um honestly i just recently picked up a second job so i honestly can have this though within the next two months you're a baller do it do it um yes also because i just paid off my car so then that freed up an extra$500 a month so I'm confident I can have this done yeah do it do it yeah and I don't know I know like I've heard on you guys a show where like you said like when you're paying off debt to like stop certain things so like I did stop part of my 401k investments I um I didn't drop it all the way down I had it at 10 % I'm now doing 6 % just so I can keep my match. Boo.

1:38:09Rachel Cruze:Tori, for 12 months, pause it and throw that money at your debt.

1:38:14Dr. John Delony:Just be done. You're so close. Yes.

1:38:16Rachel Cruze:Just for 12 months. I know.

1:38:19Dr. John Delony:I have 22 ,000 left in student loans, and then I have about 4 ,200 left in credit cards. So I've got a plan. You got it. One month is almost done. I'll have it paid literally in the next month. The next card was a secured card. So actually I plan to close it anyway.

1:38:35Rachel Cruze:Good. So I can throw that at the next day. Good. Yes. It's the snowball effect. You're doing it.

1:38:40Dr. John Delony:You're doing it.

1:38:41Rachel Cruze:Tori, I'm so proud of you. Girl, that's amazing. You're doing incredible. You're doing absolutely incredible. And the research of figuring out, okay, I can get a$2 ,000 certification for a$20 ,000 raise. That's some good ROI right there, Tori. Like, yes.

1:38:58Dr. John Delony:And everybody listening, here's what we're not saying. You said it. Yeah. This isn't, I'm going to pause the baby steps. I owe a hundred grand from undergrad. I'm going to go ahead and take out a$200 ,000 loan to get a MBA. And I hope that that moves me up. Or I'm a teacher and I want to go back to school and get a master's degree. And I hope this other district hired me. This is somebody in a job who has a, needs a credential to move up in this job. She's already crushing it in her company. And it's just, it's$2 ,000. Yes.

1:39:27Rachel Cruze:This is a no brainer. So Tori, you're awesome. Oh, I love it. Love it. All right, let's go to San Diego. We have Chris on the line. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show.

1:39:38Dr. John Delony:Hello. It's a pleasure to talk to you guys.

1:39:40Rachel Cruze:Yes. Well, thanks for calling in. How can we help?

1:39:42Dr. John Delony:Yeah. So my wife and I got married six months ago, and we've been living in an apartment in San Diego. And my in-laws, her parents, are offering to build an extension onto their home so that we can move in and save money. but we would be paying for the construction of the extension to their home. Oh, that's great. Hey, Chris, I got a good idea. Give me a million dollars.

1:40:10Rachel Cruze:To increase my home.

1:40:11Dr. John Delony:Yeah, to increase my home value, and then I'll let you live there.

1:40:16Rachel Cruze:Yeah, no. I would not do this. No, no. But it's interesting, though, because financially we could do it.

1:40:24Dr. John Delony:I know it's not interesting, though, because you'll be living in your in-laws' house. Yes.

1:40:28Rachel Cruze:And then actually for resale value, in-law suites are actually not that great because it takes a very specific buyer to even want it. So even for your in-laws, if your in-laws called and said, we want to build on, I would be like, eh, I probably wouldn't. I think they're fine. No, Chris, you guys need to go and live your lives. Genuinely. Because what happens, people get trapped in these situations, and then you take out the construction loan or whatever it is, and you're trying to pay it. And then something happens, and you want to move to Arizona because you got this insane job. And it's like, we can't because we're stuck here because we promised this and this.

1:41:02Rachel Cruze:You start to have all these strings attached, and you guys can't just fly and be free. Like, just, yes, and have a driveway that's just yours, not parking with your in-laws. You know what I mean?

1:41:12Dr. John Delony:If they said, hey, we're going to do this anyway, and we will let y 'all live here rent-free,

1:41:18Rachel Cruze:I'd be all about that.

1:41:19Dr. John Delony:Do that all day long. But y 'all...

1:41:22Rachel Cruze:You need to build your own equity, too, in your own place.

1:41:24Dr. John Delony:Rachel's call-out is really important. You're going to put down$350 ,000 on this thing. You're going to cash flow it, and then you're going to get the job of a lifetime in Texas. And you're going to be like, wow, there's no state income tax. What do we do? And you're going to have to take this, and then that money is sunk into your in-law's house. and I just wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.

1:41:45Rachel Cruze:Okay. Did we convince you? What do you think? Do you want to go, do you want to live at your in-laws?

1:41:52Dr. John Delony:You know, I have my own thoughts. You do. That's here though, Chris. What are your thoughts? You've heard ours. What's yours? It's further in San Diego from my job and in terms of dollars, more dollars would be going out per month even though it's the same amount, if that makes sense.

1:42:11Rachel Cruze:Wait, say it again. Say that.

1:42:13Dr. John Delony:So the amount that we're able to save right now is how much we'd be putting towards the loan. But it ties up our money. And if we're ready to move out in our own place in five years, I think it would tie us down even more. Yes, correct. Saving the same amount in the same amount of time and having that money is liquid.

1:42:32Rachel Cruze:Correct. Yes. You are thinking.

1:42:34Dr. John Delony:100%.

1:42:34Rachel Cruze:What's your wife saying?

1:42:36Dr. John Delony:I guarantee you I know what she says. we haven't had a ton of time to talk about it recently but I think we're kind of on the same page I've been sharing my thoughts with her and she's like yeah like that totally makes sense and we're bouncing off her parents and kind of having a mutual discussion but it's all very loose right now okay I want to say something crazy don't have a mutual discussion with her parents you and your wife have a discussion and then you announce what your decision is wow because I don't want them negotiating with you on y 'all helping increase the resale value of their home.

1:43:11Dr. John Delony:Y 'all make a decision and then you say, hey, thank you so, so much for the offer. We're going to keep, we want to stay here in our apartment and we're going to build up our savings so that we can get our own place. End of, conversation's over.

1:43:27Rachel Cruze:Yeah, that makes it nice and easy.

1:43:29Dr. John Delony:Now they probably have a, oh, go ahead.

1:43:30Rachel Cruze:Well, I was going to say their hearts may be in a great spot. I think in some situations like this, they genuinely think we're helping and this will be so great. And one day we'll flip.

1:43:39Dr. John Delony:We'll move to the in-law suite and we'll give the house to them. I mean, I'm telling you. That's what I bet they're thinking.

1:43:46Rachel Cruze:That they can get the house and we'll downsize later or something.

1:43:49Dr. John Delony:Or no, we'll move to the in-law suite and they'll keep the house. And then we can be around the grandkids. They've got a whole idea worked out. And I don't fault them for a second for coming up with this idea. It's a great plan. And housing in San Diego is, I don't know, one bedroom apartment. It's$8 billion. I get it. I totally get it.

1:44:05Rachel Cruze:And to your point, if they had built it and it was there, like we had some friends and their parents had like a small home out like by a pool and they lived there for about two to three years, rent free, everything. And it was great. And then they saved up the money. They went and put a down payment, moved into a home. It was wonderful because it was already there. It was part of the system. They had a good relationship. It was fine. And they actually created their savings goals. But Chris, if you're having to cash flow this into something that you can't take the equity out, that's not a smart investment.

1:44:33Rachel Cruze:And I just think having some boundaries, your first six months of marriage, first couple of years, I think it's good. Have your own location. You guys figure out life together. But thanks for the call. And yeah, congratulations on the new marriage.

1:44:58Dr. John Delony:you spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:45:46Rachel Cruze:So buying or selling your home is a really big deal. And there's so much clickbait in the headlines out there and conflicting data that it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So last month, the average 15-year fixed rate mortgage had ticked up a bit to 5.56%, but it's still lower than 6%, which is great. And if you're financially ready, a small increase like that shouldn't be able to hold you back. So again, this idea that just because prices, interest rates go up a little, down a little, all of it, if you are in a position to buy a home, you need to get into the market.

1:46:24Rachel Cruze:Now, the median home prices went up to$415 ,000 last month, which is typical for the spring markets. Now there's more homes available or more buyers are entering the market. So it is a great time to buy or sell. So to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcasts or YouTube. All right, let's head to Riley in Memphis, Texas. Hi, Riley. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

1:47:00Dr. John Delony:Okay, so I'm going to keep this brief. Me and my husband, we've been Ramsey people since getting married. and have no debt aside from our house. However, my parents have been struggling financially for quite some time. And despite this, my mom will buy things for us and it takes a huge toll on my husband and I. It makes us feel like we're contributing to their debt. So I was just wondering how do I approach my mom about purchasing things for my family when they are in debt and can't afford it?

1:47:27Rachel Cruze:Yeah. What's she buying?

1:47:29Dr. John Delony:So she'll buy stuff for our house. We're not, in a position to buy like things like curtains or rugs or things like that.

1:47:37Rachel Cruze:And so she'll buy stuff like that. Or we just had a daughter as well. And so she'll buy like clothes and things for her. And you're not asking her to, she's just showing up with stuff. Yes. Yeah.

1:47:48Dr. John Delony:So here's a hard truth. You and your husband can't own her decisions. Yeah. Okay. You can, you can, you can sit down with her and say, Mom, me and my husband really want to grind this thing out ourselves. And I'm so grateful for you always bringing us stuff and all that. What we really want is you just to come hang out with the new baby or come hang out with us. But really, and I know this sounds ridiculous, we want to grind it out ourselves. Yeah, yeah. You can't do anything about... Sorry, I guess... If she shows up with it, she shows up with it, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's what I was wondering, like, if it's something I need to change my mindset about, like, it's not my problem kind of thing, as bad as that sounds.

1:48:36Dr. John Delony:But it does make us feel really guilty knowing the place that they're at, especially because we're doing a little bit better than they are. Yeah. I want to set you free from this. And it's not a one and done, but my friend Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist in New York. she taught me this and it it it's one of those I had a before and after moment and this is just a year or two ago okay do you think having um curtains in your house is that a violation of you and your husband's marital values no no do you think getting a gift is that a violation of your marital values no okay so guilt is actually a good thing it's a thing that our body feels when we do something that violates our core values.

1:49:24Dr. John Delony:What you're feeling is not guilt. You're trying to take your mom's situation and own it for her. Okay. You get what I'm saying? And that's not your cinder block to carry around all the time. Probably underneath the thing you think is guilt, I bet it's anger.

1:49:43Rachel Cruze:Yeah.

1:49:44Dr. John Delony:I bet you're pissed off that you grew up in that house. You know what money stress feels like. and she's now doing it to y 'all. Yeah. Right? And so it's what you're feeling I don't think is guilt. I think you're mad. I think you're frustrated. Like get your house in order, Mom and Dad, right? Yeah, and I think a lot of that comes from we actually a few months ago, we were doing really, really well financially on my parents' record worth, and we gave them a gift, a money gift, in hopes that it would be kind of a wake-up call. no you woke up you woke a dragon that's what you woke up and so I feel like it's kind of a slap on the face so I do think that that kind of makes me and my husband a little bit angry did they ask for that money gift no it was just something that was put on our heart but tell me about that so at this point this was during Christmas and at this point they were really struggling to put food on the table and trying to give us a good Christmas, me and my siblings.

1:50:52Dr. John Delony:And so we just felt really saddened by the situation. My mom had just gotten laid off from her job. And so we felt that possibly giving a gift of money and then realizing the help that they can, that they have received would help them, I don't know, like feel more motivated to get back in the workplace to provide for their family. And it didn't work out that way. Yeah. So one time, like if somebody passes away, you bring food, right? Like there's some things you just show up and you just show up without asking. One time my buddy and his wife were, he was finishing school. She was, they were just stressed to the max.

1:51:36Dr. John Delony:And then she found out she was pregnant. it. And so I told my wife, Hey, I want to get them a house cleaner. I want a whole crew to show up at her house and take care of the whole thing. And my wife looked at me and she's like, are you insane? And I said, what do you mean? And she said, the last thing a woman who's drowning in all the stuff needs is her friends to think, Oh, she's got a dirty house. Let's clean it for her. And so what she told me was sit down with them. They're your friends for 25 years and say, Hey, how can we love y 'all right now? We're in a season of blessing. And so instead of throwing a check at somebody that's struggling, there's somebody you know really well, right?

1:52:15Dr. John Delony:If this was a person who was struggling, they didn't have a house, somebody that you're...

1:52:18Rachel Cruze:Just someone bad with money and you're giving them more money.

1:52:21Dr. John Delony:Sit down with your mom and say, hey, I know y 'all are going through a tough time. What do y 'all need? How can we love y 'all right now? And let her tell you. And if she has too much ego or pride to say, hey, we could really use$500 for groceries. And she says, nothing we're fine and good, then let her be an adult and say, you're fine or good. But you thinking y 'all can go in and just dump money on a problem and it's going to motivate them, that's never worked for them ever. And it's not going to work now. And y 'all are the ones paying the price for it, right? You're upset about it.

1:52:48Rachel Cruze:And now you're resentful because they're not doing well with their money, right? The thing that was supposed to help them. And in fact, they're becoming still irresponsible and you're in the pathway of it all, of them just like throwing their responsibility at you. Stuff that you're like, mom.

1:53:04Dr. John Delony:And I don't want you walking around feeling guilty because y 'all are in a season of blessing right now.

1:53:08Rachel Cruze:So what's the, yeah, what's the boundary, John, for adult, an adult child, right? Riley and the parents.

1:53:14Dr. John Delony:Take care of your money really well. You and your husband be good stewards of what you got and keep an open dialogue with your mom. That question always, how can I love you today? I asked my wife that she asked me that, but that's a great question for your kids. It's also a great question for your aging parents. Yeah. And if they say, well, we just need$1 ,000 a month from here on out, then you can say, I don't want to contribute to that. Or I'll walk you through your finances if you want to talk money, but I'm not just going to throw money at a problem over and over because then you are tilling the soil for resentment, right?

1:53:48Dr. John Delony:Right. Yeah. And so own that. Say, I want to love you. I want our relationship to say good and just throwing money at a problem. Right. So if you want to talk about how to get your money right, if you want to talk about budgeting, if you want to talk about this Ramsey stuff that me and my husband do that has helped us get this clear, I'm in all day long. And if you have a need like, hey, we don't have any groceries, we'll be there for you a hundred times out of a hundred.

1:54:10Rachel Cruze:Yeah, we can feel that need.

1:54:11Dr. John Delony:But man, when you get to just...

1:54:13Rachel Cruze:Well, when money is just thrown at a problem, anything, this could be friendships, parents to children, children to parents, I mean, all of it. When it's being thrown at a problem, but the problem itself is not being addressed. It just magnifies the dysfunction and it becomes a bigger problem of the problem, right? It rarely goes in and fixes it. Now, if someone is in a season of cleaning up their, you know, clean up their financial mess, they're working the baby steps, they're taking an extra job, all of it, and you have some money and you're like, you know what, I feel called to be like, hey, let's pay off that credit card for them.

1:54:47Rachel Cruze:Like we want to do that. And because we are magnifying the good that is happening, not the dysfunction.

1:54:53Dr. John Delony:But I will say this. Sometimes that sentiment, which I agree with 100%, is used to also, hey, there's a guy hungry on the side of the street. I'm not going to give him any money. He needs to get it. Sometimes the problem to solve is that guy's hungry right now. Yes. He needs a place to stay tonight. Totally. We're going to solve that. So I want to be generous across the board. Yes. But when it comes to systemic stuff like this in your house, man, sitting down and having the harder conversation is always more valuable.

1:55:23Thank you.

1:55:33Dr. John Delony:Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

1:56:13Dr. John Delony:You're ready to make change happen. Starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

1:56:38Rachel Cruze:Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 43, 19. See, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Jim Collins said, the critical question is not whether you have luck, but what you do with the luck that you get. Do you remember, this is so random. One time we were hosting together. Every time I do it, I kind of laugh to myself because I have this memory of us hosting together. And I didn't say our scripture of the day. I just started saying, see, I am doing it. I just started right into the scripture.

1:57:14Dr. John Delony:We were just hanging out on the air and Rachel starts speaking in like old King James version. And I was like, uh.

1:57:21Rachel Cruze:He said, what are you saying? I was like, it's our scripture of the day.

1:57:24Dr. John Delony:She's been reading all those like fairy Viking romances or whatever. And she started like speaking in that language.

1:57:30Rachel Cruze:It always makes me laugh. I'm always like, I need to say scripture of the day. And I don't just start saying, see, I am doing a new thing. It springs up.

1:57:38Dr. John Delony:Although when we're hanging out, just like you and me and Sheila and Winston, you do just sometimes break into these long scriptural.

1:57:46Rachel Cruze:I'll just quote some monologue. No.

1:57:47Dr. John Delony:Yeah. No.

1:57:48Rachel Cruze:All right. Let's go to Columbus, Ohio. And we have Alexa. What a name to have in the world today. Hi, Alexa. Welcome to the show.

1:57:57Dr. John Delony:Hi, good afternoon. Thanks so much for taking my call.

1:57:59Rachel Cruze:Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

1:58:02Dr. John Delony:Yeah, my husband and I are exciting about two to three months away from completing baby step two. Yes. Realize that we are not aligned on what to do with our credit card once they are paid off. Okay. And I'm in the camp of closing them. He is not, and so I'm just looking for talking points on how to help him make him feel good about that decision.

1:58:25Rachel Cruze:Some talking points. Okay, so when you say he doesn't want to close it out, does he want to keep it, the credit card, in case of an emergency, or is he wanting to keep it for expenses but pay it off every month? Like, what is he looking for when it comes to the credit card?

1:58:39Dr. John Delony:He is in the camp of it's a good credit-building tool, and then more so in case of an emergency, why not is what he usually uses. Yes.

1:58:48Rachel Cruze:Okay. Well, my talking points, which John could probably get into the psychology of just what you're desiring, Alexa, and for as husband and wife, you know, how you can approach that with him on more the emotional level. But from just the financial side, you know, what we find is people who especially rack up credit card debt throughout the month and say, we're going to pay it off. More, I think it's like right close to 50 % of immigrants don't. And so half the people are telling themselves a lie that they can afford it when they really can't. And if your credit card is your emergency fund, then you're just, you are adding risk back into your life.

1:59:34Rachel Cruze:And what I think it does is I think it slows down the motivation to actually save and have a fully funded emergency fund that should be your safety net. You should be your safety net, not a credit card company. And then when it goes to building your credit score, I mean, yeah, if he's wanting to go get loans, then yeah, you will have to have a credit score. But if you want to live a life debt-free, which you guys have done and you've worked so diligently to get out of debt, why you would want to go get a car loan again or a personal loan, I don't know why you would. But if you did, then having a credit score would be important.

2:00:08Rachel Cruze:But we believe you don't have to live with debt, so you don't have to have a credit score. And for a mortgage, that's the one type of debt we're okay with that you can actually do manual underwriting. You don't even have to have a credit score to do that. So there's a way to live life without a credit score, but you really are choosing to live life debt-free, which ultimately, which is why we do this show, we really do believe it brings the ultimate peace when you don't owe anyone anything and you have autonomy over your money.

2:00:35Dr. John Delony:Can I give you a bad example that's probably not fair, Alexa? Sure. How long have y 'all been married? Married two weeks. Two weeks. Y 'all are just in this. How long did y 'all date? we've been together for about eight years okay gross that's a decade awesome okay imagine i'm gonna be ridiculous will you be ridiculous with me sure okay imagine y 'all both cheated on each other at the beginning of your dating relationship and then y 'all both decided it's you and me ride or die we're gonna do this thing and then y 'all were both like but But let's keep those one night stands numbers in our phone just in case you get annoying.

2:01:20Oh my gosh.

2:01:21Dr. John Delony:Right? It's ridiculous, right? It's ridiculous. You would never do that. You would say, no, no, no, we're married. We're going to figure this thing out. And so if we have a fight, if we don't like each other for a while, which is every marriage, if we're annoying each other, we're going to sit down and figure this out. If you work like crazy to get out of debt and you're like, well, let's just keep these things open just in case, you're going to use them. if you don't have that number in your phone, you're going to have to sit down and figure out, all right, we had the fridge go out and the transmission fell out of the car.

2:01:50Dr. John Delony:We have to figure this out. What are we going to do? And we're going to buy a$50 used fridge on Craigslist just to put milk and eggs in to get us through. And we're going to be a one car family for a

2:02:00Rachel Cruze:month until we save up and pay for it.

2:02:02Dr. John Delony:You will figure out how to do it right. And so I, for me, I'll tell you this. It's why I keep social media on a separate phone. I'm not good enough. Those, the tech folks who created these social media, they're better than me. They are better than me. So I have to put a bunch of steps in front of me. It's a tool I have to use for work. So it has to go on a separate phone with an off switch that goes in my bag, et cetera, et cetera. When it comes to credit cards, I'm not good enough. I'm not. They're better than me. Always knowing I could always just quickly jump to this thing. So that's why I think you close them.

2:02:37Dr. John Delony:You set up a bunch of hurdles between you and where you actually want to go.

2:02:43Rachel Cruze:love it i appreciate it thank you yeah you bet and congratulations two weeks in

2:02:47Dr. John Delony:i know already having this big fight good luck all right let's go to john in denver hi john hi uh had a question on your guys's thoughts on public loan forgiveness um my girlfriend is graduating medical school and is starting her residency um and the three years of her residency will count towards the 10 years needed for public loan forgiveness. So I didn't know if that's something from a we-should-pursue standpoint or if it's more so, hey, we can aggressively pay this off once she gets her first kind of normal-paying doctor job or what your guys' stances were on public loan forgiveness. So I'll tell you this.

2:03:37Dr. John Delony:I have a really significant built-in bias, and I'll give you the other side of my bias. I worked at a law school for six, seven years, for a while. And I had a number of some of the most brilliant, compassionate minds forego working in big law where they could go make a whole bunch of money. And they chose to go do public service law with the idea that they were going to be a part of this loan forgiveness program. And then they all got hosed. They weren't, they weren't, like they kept getting denied or not reimbursed or delayed or an administrative error or clerical error or some sort of mess.

2:04:16Dr. John Delony:And so I have been ranting. I don't trust the government to come in and pay off any, I don't trust them to do anything they say they're going to do in 10 years. I mean, go back 10 years politically. Could you have imagined today? No. Right. And so when I look into the future 10 years, I would say, man, I trust me and my wife more than anybody else in the world. That said, I want to also give the other side is the public service loan forgiveness has gone up. They have been processing more and they've been getting through this backlog of millions of people. I would continue to pay on it if it was my house, just because I don't trust what's going to happen in 10 years.

2:04:54Dr. John Delony:But I'm telling you what I would do in my home. I'm telling you what I did do in my home. My wife and I paid off our student loans of our doctoral programs that could have qualified for public service because we didn't trust the outcome. Right. Which, and my only thought is, and then this is my nervousness, I guess, or, you know, comparing to drafts, whether you put money in the market, et cetera, is that she has over, it'll be over about 600 ,000. We don't have any consumer debt, really. the only thing we have is... Well, and it's not we, John.

2:05:33Rachel Cruze:It's your girlfriend. So keep things separate.

2:05:36Dr. John Delony:Right, correct. Which, and the plan is trending in... A good direction.

2:05:41Rachel Cruze:I'm glad. I'm glad.

2:05:42Dr. John Delony:Yeah, that's... Yeah.

2:05:44Rachel Cruze:I don't want to spoil anything,

2:05:46Dr. John Delony:but that's where things are heading.

2:05:48Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah, I mean, again, we've heard the good side, bad side. We tend to lean on...

2:05:54Dr. John Delony:I'm going to lean every time. ...personal responsibility and just take care of it.

2:05:58Rachel Cruze:But we do know people, We've had people calling on the show and they've chosen to give their life that way. And it worked out for them. And that's great.

2:06:05Dr. John Delony:$600 ,000 feels like an insane gamble to take on the government going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years.

2:06:12Rachel Cruze:Yep. All right, John, thanks for the call. Great show, everyone. John, thanks so much. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.