Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt

22:57Ken Coleman:If you'd like more info on this and some actual resources, use our free term life insurance guide. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash term life guide. That's life guide. Excuse me. RamseySolutions.com slash term life guide. Danielle is up in Cleveland, Ohio. Danielle, how can we help today? Oh, hi. How are you doing today? Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. So my question is whether we are on baby step two or six. Reason being is so. Is this a trick question? It's a riddle wrapped in a rhyme. It really is, truly. We were all excited. We were debt free. We are baby step six right now. So all we have left is our mortgage.

23:50we didn't take into consideration that we do actually have a vehicle loan out for our son who is paying it but it is in our name so does that mean that we go back to baby step two should we consider going ahead and paying the loan off while still making him responsible for it or continue on with putting everything towards our mortgage as we have been do you have the cash to

24:16Ken Coleman:pay it off today? Well, so we have our emergency fund, our six-month emergency fund, and so we were thinking that if that loan puts us back to baby step two, that technically we should use that to pay it off, and then we could hurry up and rebuild our six-month. All right, George, tell her, what's left on the loan? $18 ,000. Okay, and is he making payments right now, or are you guys making the payments. No, we do not make the payments. He makes the car payments, the car insurance, all of that. The loan just happens to be in our name. Well, you owe the money. If he stops making payments, it's on you.

24:57Ken Coleman:So it's your debt, even if someone else is currently making the payment. And I hope he continues to make the payment and do the honorable thing. What if, is he making the payment directly to the lender? Or is he sending you guys the money and you actually do the transaction? Yeah, we make the transaction. We actually, he gives us the money, we make the payments. I'm just wondering if you guys paid it off, but you make him continue to make payments to you guys, that sort of gives him the responsibility of what he said he would do, which is make the car payments while absolving you guys of the risk, the debt, all of that, and the interest.

25:35So that's kind of the way we were leaning. Same thoughts, because at the end of the day, we do have, even if it fell on us, if he, for some reason, something happened and he stopped making the payment, we have the money, um, to pay it. We just weren't sure if we should go ahead and use emergency fund and then go ahead and rebuild that, which we could do in about three months. What's the savings right now? Um, so we have 25 in our six month, um, emergency fund. and then we have a couple other counts with, you know, like let's say$5 ,000 in one and a couple thousand in the other. Okay. But we have no other debt other than our mortgage.

26:17So really most of our money is thinking funds and then paying extra on our mortgage to get that paid off.

26:24Ken Coleman:Okay. Well, I mean, if we're going to talk semantics in the baby steps, you are in baby step two, And we would consider this, you know, where you're going to liquidate your savings to pay off any debt, just like we would tell anyone in Baby Step 2. And you'll rebuild it really fast. I would have him continue to make the payments unless you just go, hey, bud, you're off the hook. You know, congratulations. Mom and dad just wanted to be generous. Early inheritance for you. We want him to be responsible. We're trying to now get him in, you know, Ramsey program and started him a Roth. then we want him to do the responsible thing, which should be to pay for his vehicle.

27:02Ken Coleman:Good. Well, if you want the truly responsible thing, it's the discipline to actually save up and pay cash for his next car. And so just making payments has left a lot of people broke. Agreed. Yes. So it's an honorable thing that you guys have followed the steps. And I would talk to him. I don't know when, but say, hey, this was a mistake. We want to do everything with cash. We don't want to owe people money. It's going to free us up mentally, emotionally, financially, and we wish the same for you. Oh, I have to tell you, George, if we could go back in time. I want to sing if I could turn back time.

27:37Ken Coleman:Please do it. FCC will come down on us hard. Is that right? Yeah. They've been very busy lately, Ken. Oh, I see what you did there, too. Right out of the headlines, George. We're having a good time. You are on it today. I didn't know you watched the news, to be honest. I try to keep up. There's so much. I'm trying to help Danielle. I'm trying to keep up with the news. Well, Danielle, I'm so happy for you guys. You're going to be dead free today. Oh, I know. It's a good day. I have to tell you, I know you guys hear this a lot, but you are my favorite duo, and I really appreciate all of your advice and how helpful you all are.

28:10That's so kind.

28:10Ken Coleman:You all are so kind. By the way, if anyone's keeping score, that's two for Ken and George today. If we get three, we get a raise. Is that right? Oh, okay. Let's milk that. Okay. Oh, that's a great question from Danielle. It is actually a really good question, Danielle. And I don't know if you caught it. She said they could rebuild their emergency fund in three months. So really the absolute best move right here. But you got to tell Sparky, you know. Yeah. You got to tell him. Well, you don't tell him because then he goes, wait, mom and dad aren't making payments. You know, I'm actually glad you said that because I wonder, do you tell Sparky?

28:38Ken Coleman:Is it deceitful? I don't know. That part is the ethical part of me goes, I don't know. I like a good philosophical. I don't think it's deceitful. What about charging your kid rent? They pay the loan off. They pay it off. He's paying them anyway. They don't have to tell him they paid it off. That was my thinking. I think to your point, it puts him in kind of a temptation situation where he's like, oh, mom and dad paid it off, and I'm going to flake out and put their love to the test. Maybe I'll miss a payment this month. I hope Sparky's listening. I might be reading his mail. I might be reading his mail.

29:10Ken Coleman:Rex is up next in Houston, Texas. Rex, how can we help? Yes, I just have a question. I'm 66 years old, still working. I have a 401k, IRA. and my question is, should I take money out of my IRA or 401k to pay off my existing debt? How much do you have in the retirement accounts and how much debt do you have? IRA is 1.1. The 401k is$200 ,000. Debt's about$300 ,000. What kind of debt? That's including my mortgage, a school loan, personal loan, cars, and credit card. Wow, you got a little full bucket there. Yeah, at 66, I would want to simplify my life. And so you would deplete$300 ,000 out of your$1.3.

30:01Ken Coleman:So it would bring you down to a million? Somewhere around there, yes. I like this plan because here's what it does. It frees up all of those payments. So if you added all of those payments up, the mortgage, the consumer debts, what would that be every single month? It's about$4 ,500. Woo! Now, could you then invest that exact amount? Could you promise me in America that you would do that? Well, pretty close. I mean, right now I'd put 10 % from my paycheck into my 401k and an additional 5 % into savings. So here's my thinking. Are you going to work for another five years per se, or what's your plan?

30:41Yeah, the plan is to—I'm not taking Social Security either right now, So when I went to$70, I took Social Security. The plan is to work to$72.

30:51Ken Coleman:Wow. Well, I did some math for you. If you take that$4 ,500 and you start investing it from$66 to$71, you would end up with$348. So you will have more money than this debt was costing you. Okay. And also, if I take it out of there, of course, I don't have a penalty of being$66, but I am in the high tax bracket. So it's all in traditional? So you would pay taxes on that? Yes, traditional IRA. Yeah. I would sit down with a tax pro or a SmartVestor pro. You can jump on to RamseySolutions.com, crunch some numbers and see, hey, maybe I knock out consumer debts this year and the mortgage next year and try to minimize some of the tax damage.

31:31Ken Coleman:But either way, you're going to be debt free real soon, my friend. And I would consider maybe selling these cars. If we have some equity in these cars, let's not rob from ourselves. Let's have some discipline on that side. Minimize the damage. Yeah. Thanks for the call, Rex.

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33:12Ken Coleman:All right, let's go to John in Kentucky. John, how can we help today? Hey, how are you guys? Good. How are you, sir? Blessed, blessed. Just a quick question. I recently was promoted and with the expectations of moving out in Colorado. And the job's been great. And I'm trying to find out either, A, what kind of home price I should be looking at to make sure that when my wife, we have our first child, she can work from home or just not work at all. Or if I should end up renting for a year or two to be able to put down a lot more on the home. Great question. Okay, lay out some numbers for us. Yeah, so currently I'm in sales, but minimum is usually about$17 ,000 per month.

34:03Some months it's really great, up to$30 ,000, but it's usually between$17 ,000 to$22 ,000 for my income. Amazing. Hers is about$5 ,000 per month, but we're expecting to bring her home after the first child.

34:17Ken Coleman:Okay, so we'll just remove that income from the equation, and you're going, hey, how much house can I afford if I make about$20 ,000 a month? Yeah. Okay. And what are you looking at right now? What price range? Yeah, so we're looking between$300 ,000 to$500 ,000. But I've also been speaking with a realtor about trying to find an assumable loan. I do have the option for a VA, which would definitely help with lowering that monthly income or the monthly home price. Well, what it'll do is just allow you to get in with less equity, less down payment. And so that part worries me, especially for a guy making this kind of money.

34:57Ken Coleman:Are you guys not in a good financial position? Do you have debt? No. I've spent the last few months paying off any credit cards, anything like that. She has a car loan that has a little less than 10K. I've got about $35 ,000 in the savings, about$20 ,000 to$25 ,000 that I could access through the 401K. And then with sales, I should be expecting another$15 ,000 to$20 ,000 before we decide to pull the trigger. John, are you familiar with our baby steps? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. So when you tell us you have$35 ,000 sitting over in savings and your wife is carrying a$10 ,000 car loan, what do you think we're thinking?

35:39You could get that paid off immediately.

35:41Ken Coleman:Yeah, so this is fun. I love when someone else knows what we're going to say. So the question I have is what is keeping you from doing that? knowing that that's what we were going to tell you to do? Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things that I've been thinking about is with her coming home, is it worth paying off the car now or is it worth making sure that I have the emergency fund saved up in case something ever happened to me or the job, that we would have a nest egg to then make decisions on finding a new job or going from there? When is she coming home? um we are trying now so it nine to 12 months you get what i'm saying here i already knew the answer you don't know when she's coming home sure you guys she's not even pregnant sure and so i'm adjusting these numbers to what you gave me you guys you immediately in laying out the numbers for george you discounted her 5k a month that actually takes your range of income between 22 and 27, not 17 and 22.

36:45Ken Coleman:To George's point, you're rolling, buddy. And so getting up a really good down payment is not going to take long with those numbers. Am I right, George? Yeah. And you have a lot of flexibility with your level of income. Well, our parameter is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay going towards this mortgage. And that includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, all of that, the homeowner's insurance. And so with your income, if you bought a$500 ,000 house with$100 ,000 down with a 15-year fix, you'd likely be looking at a payment of about $3 ,750 a month, which is very reasonable if you consistently make$17 ,000 or$20 ,000 a month.

37:21Ken Coleman:Agreed? Yeah. And so having a down payment of that, could you save up$100 ,000 over the next 12 months? Yeah, easily. I guess I should have mentioned there is an expectation of moving out there before February, March timeframe. So that's kind of the thing I'm competing with. Where's the expectation coming from? From taking the promotion. Yeah, but you don't have to buy a house just because you're taking the job. Correct. I rented for two years with three kids. When I moved here 11 years ago, I rented a very much smaller house because we wanted, for us, it wasn't just the financial. It was, I didn't want to make a massive decision like that about where my kids were going to be until I knew the area.

38:05Ken Coleman:So I love this question, John. And I say this, I want you to feel older brother vibes here, okay? Sure. I love how planning and how intense you are and all this stuff. But dude, take a deep breath. You have no idea how quickly you guys are going to get pregnant. And you can pay off her car today. As soon as you hang up the phone, you still have 25 in cash. And between the money you guys have - Yeah, 25, another 25K is going to slip through your hands in the next 30 days. So I wouldn't be worried about the emergency. You're going to be stacking up cash so fast, especially once this car payment's gone, which I know it's not a lot comparatively to your income, but I would just be stacking cash for life.

38:48Ken Coleman:Rent, rent, rent, until you guys get planted in this new place. You guys are a young couple. How long have you been married? Less than a year. Oh, good heavens. You guys are just learning how to be married. Yeah. How old are you, John? uh 32 32 um yeah man like this is exciting this call is great and then you're in great shape you mentioned the 401k never touch that retirement account if you're not 59 and a half you're essentially taking on a loan for 35 by cashing that out early so i would just leave that money alone you have a great income go rent in february in that new city sign a six or nine month lease and by this time next year, you're going to have$100 ,000 in a down payment account and you can get a half million dollar home and it's going to be so peaceful to do it slow and steady instead of rushing into all this at once, especially when you're bringing a baby into this world.

39:45Ken Coleman:Man, that just adds a whole other layer of stress and nesting. And so you don't want to be moving while she's eight and a half months pregnant. Yeah. And to that point, I just want to give you one other little encouragement even if she got pregnant tomorrow and the baby's i mean the income if you have no debt and the income you have you're fine you'll build up the emergency but that 35 you're going to replenish that you've got more than enough to take care of this baby all right so i love your earnest intensity i really do you're a sharp young guy you're you're in good shape good shape i appreciate it just breathe man you know yeah that's been the tough part just trying to make sure you know in introducing your family that i do everything right well buddy i i'm gonna tell you something you're a poster child i mean you are you are just a you know if you look up fine young man in the dictionary nobody uses that terminology except people that are a man well i'm 51 folks that's we have a we have an expanded vocabulary All right.

40:48Ken Coleman:Can I get some love in the lobby? You've heard you've used the phrase. That's a pity clap if I've ever seen what it is. No, that was a nice par putt clap is what that was. Respectable. But listen, John, you are absolutely doing a phenomenal job of providing for you, your wife, your future family. You are way ahead. George, just to put you on the spot, because you're in the numbers on this particular stuff more than I am. the average 32 year old if you were going to make something up an educated guess versus john to encourage john and and also to paint the picture for other people to be in his spot what would you say the average 32 year old dude uh his financial picture looks like in america uh probably has a big truck that's about 700 bucks probably still has the student loans probably still fooling with credit cards uh and probably making four to five thousand a month not twenty thousand a month That's exactly right.

41:45Ken Coleman:And so this picture, I'm just like, this kid is going places. He just got to tweak a few things and have a little bit of patience, but he's going to be catapulted when he's making 20 grand a month, no debt with a reasonable house payment, which means he's going to pay that house off early. Mom's going to be at home, not stressed, taking care of the baby, raising the family. This is a poster child for the baby steps if he can do this right. Yeah. So, John, man, we are team John, and you've done such a good job, and it's really important to be able to get perspective. So glad you called today. If we could just be a little bit of a sounding board to go, man, you're doing great.

42:18Ken Coleman:You just got to, as George said, the tweaks and enjoy life. And don't be so scared because you are really, really in great shape. And we're praying for you guys. Hope the baby and all that, everything comes along when you want it to. It's such an exciting time. You're doing well, young man. Thank you for the call.

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43:52Ken Coleman:welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio i'm ken coleman thrilled to be alongside my pal george camel we're here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five we go to ohio next where jennifer is waiting for us jennifer how can we help today hi i'm a lot more nervous than i thought i would be well it's george he's intimidating and it's the height mostly just know that i'm here to just take care of you i'll make sure he's nice okay so um i'm on uh babysat two and i'm still about fifty thousand dollars in debt um however um because i don't want to cry on my on the phone it's okay it's okay i have to make a hard decision to say goodbye to my buddy my dog next week oh no about 17 and i've had him 15 years and he's been with me he's moved across to another country with me and all the things what's his name um his name is ulysses ulysses yeah but you know like ulysses yeah and then my last name like the general i love that historical name yeah i'm nerding out right now what kind of dog yeah What kind?

45:05I don't know. He's, um, he's some kind of poodle mix. Um, his first owner was a hoarder and I think was, was trying to, um, like breed dogs or something. It was a bad situation. So he's, he's just a sweet, he's a total love bug. You know, he's, he's almost 17. And if you tell you right now, like his tail would still wag and he'd come up and try to, he's just lovely.

45:30Ken Coleman:Well, listen, you're talking to two dog lovers here. I was hoping I'd get you two. We hurt for you. This is not fun. Okay, so we got this hard decision coming up. Tell us what else is going on. Well, so here's what I've done. And I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that financially I've done the right thing. So part of how I knocked out the debt was I had a non-retirement mutual fund, and I cashed that out. And what I did is I knew this was probably coming. So I took$400 and I put it in a sinking fund just in my savings account to say when and if. Where I'm struggling and I hate it because what I want to do is have him cremated and get the urn back like I did for my other dog.

46:13But that's$200 more. I do have the money in the sinking fund. I'm struggling with like I've been so good about I don't eat out. It's rice and beans, beans and rice. I'm doing handmade gifts instead of gifting. Like I'm doing all the things that I just want to know that I'm not being completely irresponsible to spend the$240 instead of just$40 to cremate and get my pup sat in his ashes. And I know not everyone agrees with that.

46:40Ken Coleman:Well, what's the other option if you didn't do it? Well, there's two. So one is it's just$40 for the cremation. And I just pay that and I don't get them back. Okay, gotcha. I'm sorry. They do that like in mass. And then the other, the least expensive is I could bury him in my parents' backyard. But I can't pick him up once he's gone. Like, I don't think, I can't do it. Like, I'm even having a panic attack thinking about it. Oh, well, that's tough. That's tough stuff. Jennifer, spend the$240. Just spend it. You're not being irresponsible. You're never going to look back and go, dang it, why did I spend that$240?

47:13Ken Coleman:I could have got out of debt four days sooner. Yeah. Okay, thank you. I've been so diligent about, like, everything that it's like. Yeah. This is not an impulsive girls trip. Yeah. This is not craziness. This is like a big, this is a huge deal. All of us who've had to put a furry friend down, it is tough. Thank you. And this is a, yeah. You're not like emotionally spending to go, you know, retail therapy. This is something that you want to do as your way to say goodbye. It's not going to derail your financial journey. Thank you. And if it really makes you feel guilty, here's what I would do. psychologically, go make$240 doing something, selling something as part of this journey, as a way to say, you know what?

47:59Ken Coleman:I didn't derail my financial goals and I got to grieve the way I wanted to grieve. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're the best. We're so sorry. So sorry. Give Ulysses, give him some love for George and I, a little extra pat for the best boy. I will. I will. Yeah. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. What is it about dogs and pets? It just crush us. I think it's the unconditional love and innocence. Yes. And can we just say, I love naming dogs. It's one of my favorite things in life. What's your dog names? We've got Ellis and Honey. Oh. And they are doodles. Ellis is the big guy. He's like that white, perfect curl.

48:41Ken Coleman:And he's a human. Ellis thinks he's a human. I've stared into his eyes. You have. And I treat Ellis as though he's a human. And then Honey is our mini golden doodle. and our daughter actually owns, she bought her. That was a big thing, big purchase for Josie, our daughter, and she did it. And she's just a little miniature doodle. And she owns me. I mean, you know what I mean? She's just unbelievable. Well, especially as the kids get older and they don't like you anymore, the dogs will always love you. I tell you, who's always excited to see me when I walk in? Ellis and Honey. Stacey's not always excited to see me.

49:14Ken Coleman:I've said. And I don't blame her. I mean, let's be clear here. I mean, it's been how many years you've been married? 20-something? 27 years, you know. Someday she just doesn't want to see me. She goes, hey, Ken, you left the laundry out. What did I tell you? Yeah. Stacey, it didn't sound like that, I promise. I was going to say, that's a horrible impression. Let's go to Ben in Kentucky. Ben, how can we help today? Well, I'm about to retire. Not that I want to. It's just the company's closing. And I have 300 ,000 in CDs. And I'm wondering what to do with that. And I also have 100 ,000 U.S. savings bonds.

49:50I mean, do I leave them in CDs and savings bonds, or should I put them somewhere else?

49:55Ken Coleman:Well, I mean, you're just leaving a lot of money on the table. You're basically just kind of keeping up with inflation, but you're not going to make anything above and beyond that. So if this money is going to sit there for the next 10 years, I'd much rather see it invested into the market instead of just on the sidelines. It's time for the investment calculator, George. Should we play the game? We should. But what caused you to put almost half a million dollars on the side here? Like what is it? Are you scared?

50:24Well, I'm about 67, 68 years old. And I'm just worried in the market because, well, as you know, it doesn't always go up. And sometimes it takes a long time to come back up. And I just didn't want to lose it. And I just don't know what to do. I like it to be safe. And that's what I was wondering. I mean, because I do have a little bit in stocks, but not much.

50:49Ken Coleman:Well, the thing is, when you say I want it to be safe, it's actually riskier to leave it in there long term. Yeah. And the risk is, instead of making 20%, 30 % this year, you're going to make 4%. And you're going to go, what? How does that? What happened? My money just kept up with inflation. Well, it could have turned into half a million. Quick thing on this, Ben. If the things, and I'm not going to make you tell us for sake of time, but if the things happen that you're worried about happening that would make money in the stock market risky, guess what? Your money's not safe in the other situation either, and we're all probably in a bunker somewhere.

51:27Ken Coleman:You just have to play that out. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Like all of the apocalyptic things that would make you think, well, the CDs are safer. If that were to happen, the CDs, none of it matters. You with me on that, George? Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's an extreme statement. Let's get a bigger financial picture here. Do you have any debt? No debt. Okay. Do you have a nest egg outside of this money? We have a simple IRA, and that's about$600 ,000. Okay. So you are invested in the market through that IRA? Yes, uh-huh. Well, you trusted the market on that one. And here's the math on it.

52:05Ken Coleman:From$68 ,000 to$75 ,000, you just leave that$300 ,000 in there into the market. it'll turn into$600 ,000 by 75. Ben! So that's just average rate of return 10%. So I would move that money over, leave enough, maybe a year of expenses if you're in retirement to cover a market downturn, but I would not just leave half a million parked on the sidelines, my friend.

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54:12Ken Coleman:Hey, folks, we'd love for you to share the show with folks that you think might enjoy it, that might need it. That's how we grow. You guys are the ultimate marketing campaign. If this show is in any way impacting you in a positive way, we'd love that. Subscribe, share, like, follow all the things. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Caitlin is up in Texas. Caitlin, how can we help? Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. me? Yes, loud and clear. What's going on? Thank you. So my husband and I have been married for eight years. We have a seven-year-old autistic son, and he has a 24-year-old daughter from a previous marriage.

54:50Now, he was estranged from his daughter for a while, so now they have a great relationship. But we were talking, and he said that he wants to give her 20 % of his 401k when he passed away, but when I'm still alive. And I feel very frustrated with this. So I don't know if I'm wrong or what I should do.

55:14Ken Coleman:Ooh. And did you tell him this, how frustrated you are and why? Yes. And how did he respond to that? Well, his reasoning is because he was, so he used to be, he was in prison. He was a drug addict at one point, but he got sober. Now he's been sober for 13 years, and he has rebuilt his relationship with his daughter. And I think that the money is trying to make up for lost time and that he doesn't want her to feel like he left her behind without thinking about her. And she is his daughter. She is his daughter, and she's 24. The reason why I'm frustrated is because my son, our son, is special needs, and I feel like he might not be able to take care of himself.

56:03And, you know, we have a trust set up. It's a special needs trust. And I guess we have a will, but I thought that all our assets were going to go into his will, I mean, to his trust. And he's saying, well, that's fine, but 20 % of my 401k is going to her.

56:21Ken Coleman:Sure. Well, I'm just going to say that – let me ask another question. If this daughter was your biological daughter, do you think you'd feel the same way? I mean, maybe. I think that – Let me put it another way. Do you think it is normal for – let me make it super personal. Okay, I have three kids. Okay. Okay. And so in my will, do you think it would be abnormal if I gave all three of my kids some money? No, that would be fair. All three were chosen, like the same amount? It doesn't matter. I'm not even getting into the specifics. I just want to, I'm trying to walk you into, I'm really trying to coach you here.

57:13Ken Coleman:So you think that's normal for me to do that? Yes? yes why why is that normal why would that be totally normal for you to give your money to your children when you pass away now would you give that to them before your wife passed away well without getting into the details yeah yeah i'm not going to get into the details of my situation i'm but i'm making a point here that is i don't think that this is abnormal and you don't either. I think it's very emotional for you and I'm not judging you in any way, shape or form. I certainly see how you are, where you are because you shared it with me and I see how you got there because of the challenges of your son and what his situation would be.

57:58Ken Coleman:I get it. But as I'm saying, and I'm going to bring George in and George may have a completely different opinion.

58:07Ken Coleman:I'm just I don't have some fundamental problem with it, philosophical problem, and I don't have a financial problem with it. George? Yeah, the piece I'm curious about, are you going to be okay if something were to happen to him? Would I be okay if something happened to him? Financially. If your husband dies today, are you okay? If you get 80 % instead of 100%, are you still living a comfortable life? I mean, he hasn't been in the workforce that long. I probably have more investments than he does. So I'm trying to get at, is this actually a financial? There's really no, if I get 80%, I'm not going to be doing okay versus 100.

58:52Ken Coleman:So it's really just the idea that he's valuing and prioritizing his daughter over giving you the entire share. And maybe you feel like it's unfair to the son. so the next question is is the son set up to succeed if something were to happen is the special needs trust funded and is it you know have you guys done a good job to make sure that he would be okay well so far we have he's seven and my husband and I are both 50 so I have him a lot later in life and I think that I mean I could see that I I think that it was just an emotional feeling. I kind of felt that he wasn't thinking about us and he was more concerned about a grown child that is self-sufficient.

59:44I think that's what it was.

59:45Ken Coleman:It absolutely is. But here's the thing, as an objective bystander that you called and asked this question to, I don't think he's demonstrating that even financially. The lion's share, the big chunk is going to you and for your son. He's giving her a percentage of his overall. Now, I don't know the relationship or the past history, but do you think there's some guilt here that he feels as a father to go, I feel like I owe her something because of what she has gone through? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think I would try to put myself in his shoes and just talk to him honestly and say, hey, here's how this hit me initially.

1:00:21Ken Coleman:I want to hear you out and hear your heart behind this. I want to come to an agreement and make peace with whatever we decide on as a couple. And I want to see the numbers to know that our son is going to be taken care of, I'm going to be taken care of, and your daughter will get her share as well. So I think focusing on the facts, the logic, and the heart behind it, the motive behind it will help you step away from just the emotion of, well, I'm his wife. I should be getting whatever he leaves. Yeah. And a little dose of perspective, Lord willing, you guys live 20, 30, 40 years. You guys are early 50s.

1:00:55Ken Coleman:You got some work to do anyway on this to really bump these numbers up. So it is all emotional. I love it being honest. You're very self-aware on this, and we're not judging you at all. Totally get where you're coming from, but I see where your husband's coming from, and I think this is a marriage issue. And I think this is going to cause a lot of resentment if you don't get to a place of acceptance over this and go, oh, okay, we can come together and take care of our son. We can come together, make sure we're debt-free, and walk the Ramsey baby steps out, and retire with a tremendous amount of peace and margin, and not even worry about this.

1:01:31Ken Coleman:Can I ask you, who is the beneficiary on your investments? My husband, 100%. There we go. So now it feels unfair. That's where this is stemming from. Is there a way where you could say, hey, he's 80 % and I'm going to do 20 % to the special needs trust? I could. I could do that. And I think he would be fine with it. You know, I also know that if I give him 100 percent, I definitely trust him where he would never he would do everything he could to make sure our son is safe and everything. OK, there's the statement. There it is. What you just said is what you have to remember when this emotion comes up.

1:02:12Ken Coleman:I trust him and I know that he would do everything he can to take care of us. And this is the same man who also wants to do something for a daughter that he failed. I admire this. I admire this move. It's not traditional. I get it. But this isn't a traditional life you guys have. This is a unique story. And I hope you can mend this resentment and go, hey, this is what I felt. Because I'm sure he felt some of this coming at him. And I think you've got to support him in this move. Yeah. Well, thank you. You're a good lady. You're a good lady. You know, you're not, this is a, I appreciate you being really honest.

1:02:54Ken Coleman:George, these things. Yeah, this is not an out of bounds thing. Like what you're feeling is normal. Yeah. But I just want to go further than that instead of just leave it at face value of, well, he should give you 100%. You're the wife. Again, this is a complex situation and it requires a more unique solution. Yeah. Thank you, Kalen, for sharing with us. You're a good lady. And you guys have a lot of time to do what's necessary to take care of your son. Focus on that. That's a unified goal and a worthy goal.

1:03:44Bye.

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1:04:55Ken Coleman:All right, George, we're going to do something new. this is going to be fun. How about a video call? Would you like to help somebody out? This is something we have never done on the Ramsey show. No, we're doing it right now. We're going to go to Sarah in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Sarah. Hi, guys. I hope you're doing okay today. We're doing okay. It's so nice to see you. It is so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. So how can we help today? Well, after about seven years of hard work at paying off my debt, I've found myself in a bit of a better financial situation. And I've been working for seven years at 70 to 100 hours a week.

1:05:39Ken Coleman:What? And I... Doing what kind of work? When... Tell us what kind of work this is. um a little bit of everything uh i've been a bartender a legal secretary um i currently work uh bartending as a legal secretary and in logistics what's your full-time job uh i work in logistics okay that's 40 hours a week yeah yep at least i sometimes am working overtime yeah okay and then at night you're just you're going to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. For seven years, you've done this. Yes. Are you done with the debt? I am not. I just got my student loans refinanced. They were at a 14 % interest rate, if you can believe it.

1:06:28And I cut it down to six.

1:06:30Ken Coleman:Okay. Okay. Wow. Give us a quick snapshot of your current debt situation? So I have$85 ,000 left. I got my credit cards completely paid off last year. And based on my current income and the rate at my refinance, I'm able to pay double, sometimes two and a half times my minimum. Are you doing the debt snowball where you're just focused on one and making minimums on the rest? I only have the one loan because they got consolidated when I refinanced to get out of the 14%. Oh, so you have an$85 ,000 loan that you're just tackling. And what are you putting towards that? What is the amount you're putting towards that every month?

1:07:22So the minimum is 1065 and I am currently paying per month somewhere around 2500.

1:07:33Ken Coleman:Okay. And I sometimes can go a little higher. Right. Depending on the hours. So because you just told us 70 to 100 hours and the emotion came out. Yeah. What's going on? What's that emotion coming from?

1:07:52It's just been a lot for a long time.

1:07:56Ken Coleman:Yeah. And three years is basically what I have calculated left at. So. Okay. And that just feels absolutely overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what we want to do here is we want to go, okay, it's okay to take a deep breath on this whole situation and go, okay, I can't keep this up right now. you feel like you're at your breaking point. That's what you feel like. A lot of days, yes. I mean, my boyfriend is incredibly supportive and he tries to do as much as he can to help out.

1:08:41But he really doesn't know what more to do for me. No, okay. So let's see what we can do.

1:08:46Ken Coleman:Well, you're not. Let's start there. You're not stuck. You're exhausted. Okay. You've done a great job. All right, let's look at the day job, the 40-hour-a-week job. What is your income from that? About$54 ,000 before any overtime. Okay,$54 ,000 before overtime. And then how many overtime hours are available to you? It depends. Currently, I'm working anywhere from$4 ,000 to$10 ,000 a week. Okay, so$4 ,000 to$10 ,000 of overtime. A week, yeah. Okay, great. So that puts us at most 50 hours. So 44 to 50 hours. And then you are working these extra jobs on top of that, correct? Yes, that is correct.

1:09:33Ken Coleman:Okay. And if I were to say to you right now, hey, take a month off of these other jobs and let's just focus on the day job and the overtime that comes with the day job. That's going to put us in a 44 to 50 hours a week. Okay. Just knowing what you know about your finances, how much would that affect your ability to make that$2 ,000 payment a month? What would that drop? Would it drop? And what would it drop to? It would drop about$1 ,500. Okay. So it would be that substantial. Yeah. Okay. And that's what's saying if you keep this up, you're on a three-year pace, George. I want to bring you in on that because I think there's another way out of this on the three years.

1:10:24Ken Coleman:Yeah, I'm trying to get to the root of, you know, you've been at the seven years. On average, it takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt. So what was the original balance you were facing of all the debts? So part of this is I went and got a master's degree. and um my field that i work predominantly in is known for not paying very well um but i would try to write in my free time uh i have a degree in history um so what was your master's in military history actually oh boy what are you trying to get a job in that field or was this just for fun? Yes, actually, my eventual goal is to teach and I have the lead on potentially getting into a PhD program in the next couple of years.

1:11:17Ken Coleman:Oh, forget it. Which is paid. Let's put that on ice. It's paid. I know, but right now. So let's go to the logistics. I know, and that's kind of where I'm at. Let's go to the logistics. So what kind of debt was this and what was the original balances? Because it sounds like you added to it over the seven years in my mind you were just crushing down the debt but instead you were adding to it while trying to keep up i actually paid as i was in my master's program um in in order to keep doing that and still held my minimums for my undergraduates uh so was this like five hundred thousand dollars entirely certain no i so i was a little bit stupid and I didn't know what I was doing when I went into my undergraduate program.

1:12:04That's most everybody. My dad took care of all of the loans and he put them on variable interest rates. And so I have no idea exactly what the starting amount was.

1:12:14Ken Coleman:Are they in his name or yours? He's my co-signer. Oh, this just got more interesting. So the debt is also his. Okay. All right. Yes. I think we got to talk about, first of all, you can't keep this up. I don't think you're in a, now you might be able to come back to 70, but 100 hours, like at some point you're going to have to be really, really smart about you and your mind and your body trying to keep this up. All right. So what is two or three ladders up, two or three rungs up the ladder look like from your logistics career where you are now? What does it look like? Is it attainable and does it pay substantially more?

1:12:58Ken Coleman:yes that's the focus if we can double your income and get you working 40 50 hours we solve the problem that's what we're trying to do here you're working that's one of the things i've been working towards for the last year is to earn the promotion that comes and i think i'm actually close to it you're close and can i tell you something else you keeping up the schedule you've been keeping up while I admire it. And it is gazelle intensity. You're the poster child. So proud of you, but that's affecting your ability at the day job. You're going to become more promotable when you are more refreshed mentally, physically.

1:13:39Ken Coleman:So you're not stuck. You're not putting the best effort. Your effort's amazing, but the effort's not going to the best place. I want to see you get promoted. I want to see you use that logistics resume in the building that you're in right now, okay, or outside of that building because the logistics experience and skill set, George, is where she has the greatest opportunity for growth. Now we can work 50 hours a week, maybe the occasional 60, but we got more income. Yeah, I would try taking a few months off. I think you should. You know what? Let me see what this does for my career. Let me see what this does for my emotional and mental health and physically.

1:14:16Ken Coleman:And then we'll reset in January and see, do we need to put the foot on the gas again? Yeah. Sarah, we're rooting for you. You're a warrior. Keep going.

1:15:09Ken Coleman:All right, let's go to Amber in Georgia. Amber, how can we help today? Hey, guys. So I guess my primary question is how do you stay motivated? Or how do I stay motivated when I feel deprived and restricted by a budget? Who made the budget? I got a feeling it was somebody else. Was it you? You made the budget. No, I made the budget. There's more to the feeling restricted. Yeah, what area do you feel restricted in? Tell us what's making you feel restricted.

1:15:47sorry i thought i was going to be able to keep it together

1:15:49Ken Coleman:listen people cry on the show all the time you're okay we're we're good i have had a very difficult life it's been really really tough um and i'm just now starting to get help and um part of the things that have been tough have been financial um i have spent money just because I was filling a void. And I didn't know or realize that until recently. So I've gotten myself into a lot of financial trouble. I was married to a man who got us in a lot of financial trouble. We almost lost our house. We wound up filing bankruptcy. I had to file bankruptcy a second time in order to avoid a legal situation.

1:16:41and I just feel like it doesn't matter what I do. I can't stick to anything.

1:16:48Ken Coleman:So you're beating yourself up big time. This isn't about the budget, Amber. You feel hopeless because life has knocked you down and you need to heal from all the things that have happened to you and that's okay. So where are you at today? Are you single again? Working? I work. I work about 52 hours a week. I've got two jobs that I work those hours between, and then I work 12 hours a month at a third job. I do have a boyfriend, but he lives an hour and a half away. What are you making with all three jobs? Around$62 ,000. Okay, and you have kids? An older kid. Okay, so you're only responsible for you right now?

1:17:39Yes. Okay.

1:17:40Ken Coleman:Let me just throw something in real quick. Okay. I'm proud of you. And I think you should be proud of yourself. I hear a lady who has had a rough go, and I think you blame yourself for a lot of it. Not all of it, but I think you're dealing with a lot of shame. And I just want to say to you that the fact that you're working three jobs and making$60 ,000 a year and trying to rebuild, I just want to say you are a strong person. So just wanted to, the rest of the phone call, I want you to know that and believe that because that's what I see. And George, you see it as well. Yeah. You're resilient. Okay.

1:18:15Ken Coleman:So let's keep walking through. George, walk her through the financial stuff. You make 62K. How much debt do you have right now? About 88 ,000. Okay. Break that down for us. Okay. 3 ,000 is just random miscellaneous debt. I've got 2 ,000 in credit card,$7 ,000 on one vehicle,$21 ,000 on another,$25 ,000 in student loans, and$30 ,000 to my parents for my divorce. Okay, and this is all post your last bankruptcy? Yes. Okay, so the cycle has just been continuing every single time. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Yes. And what – you said you're trying to seek help. What kind of area – you share as much as you're comfortable with, but what is the root of this?

1:19:12Ken Coleman:If you had to say, hey, when this happens, this is sort of a trigger for me that causes me to spiral and go want to spend a bunch of money that I don't have and go into debt. What causes the loop?

1:19:26Aside from mental health, I don't know.

1:19:29Ken Coleman:When you say mental health, what are you comfortable telling us? What diagnose yourself here? What's what is this thing is what you're just getting at? I was recently diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder. OK. And are you are you currently with a medical professional working on treatment and medicine to get a hold of this? Yes. OK. And in the meantime, your original question was, I feel restricted by living on a budget. So when you made this budget, what is the area or line item where you go, oh, this is so restrictive?

1:20:06Ken Coleman:What can't you do that you want to do? Well, I mean, part of it is your bills, right? You have your rent. You have your utilities. You have insurance. You got to put food on the table and get some groceries. So what is restrictive about it? So I feel restricted in the sense that I'm so accustomed to having two incomes. I went from$175 ,000 combined to$50 ,000 at the time. And I could buy whatever I wanted. It didn't matter. We were in a decent financial position. And I'm still in that mindset that I just can't get out of. Paying my bills is not the problem. Bills are paid. I can't put money away because whatever money I have left over, I want to buy nothing, anything.

1:20:59Ken Coleman:Well, okay, so let's reclassify the word you're using because words matter. But before we do that, quick context. Yes, you had two incomes, but you told us that your ex-husband put you in a massive financial hole on his own. So it wasn't that great. It's just you guys were living like it was great. True or false? both true and false the financial predicament happened years later and then we got on good terms right but my point is is it was great for a while and then it wasn't great and we're still living a long time ago and so i don't think you're restricted i think that you're dealing with a form of depression and i don't know i'm not i'm not a i'm not clinically diagnosed i'm saying this is like financial depression because it's like I had this life this is what it was like and now I'm just just chipping away and I'm not even having any fun there's no fun at all and welcome to the journey there are people sitting in this lobby today that have felt that if you felt that before raise your hand out there yeah I mean millions of people that have turned their life around at some point in the baby steps baby step one and two George are grueling Yeah.

1:22:18Ken Coleman:Do you have$1 ,000 right now, Amber? No. Has that been hard for you to come up with? I had it, and then something happened that we really shouldn't have. I had a lien placed on something, and I had to get the lien off in order to replace what I needed to replace. Well, that lien should never have been placed because that particular balance was included in the bankruptcy. But because I legally needed to drive, I had to pay the lien. So there went my entire savings. Okay, but$4 ,000, let's say, will pass through your hands in the next 30 days, correct? Yes. Before you pay the bills, can you set aside$1 ,000 over in a savings account outside of your checking account and still pay your bills?

1:23:15Ken Coleman:Yes. Okay. So there's baby step one. Part of the hard part of this is you just have to do it. And there's always going to be something that comes up and you just have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better financial spot the priority before anything else. And there's going to be more setbacks where that came from. Because here's the reality. You're right. Looking at the budget, it is restrictive because you're broke. You make$62K and you have$88K to pay off. That's hard math that you're facing. And so my hope for you is that we can go, how do we clear this debt fast? Like these cars.

1:23:48Ken Coleman:Do we need both of these cars? Can we sell one or both of them and clear those payments and then buy something used in cash?

1:23:58No, because they're both underwater.

1:24:01Ken Coleman:By how much on each?

1:24:05um on one of them probably four thousand and on the other maybe six or seven okay so now we have

1:24:15Ken Coleman:a solvable problem if we come up with 10 or 11k we can clear these payments and breathe a little bit more and then we clear the next smallest debt breathe a little bit more so you're gonna have to get creative i hope you can get your health in a manageable spot and just know this looks different now. Your life changed dramatically. The reality changed. Hang on the line. I want to get you into every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. It's going to walk you through this whole journey. Hang on the line. We're going to help you.

1:25:00Ken Coleman:spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at$749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

1:25:35Ken Coleman:welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio alongside the incomparable the charming george camel i'm ken coleman you like what i did there i was actually shocked i thought there was someone else you were going to announce i think you are charming i really do i don't think you get enough credit for your charm george thank you people just love your brain they do they love it when you crunch the numbers here i do like to crunch a good number all right cindy's ready uh cindy's joining us now in ohio cindy how can we help well good afternoon first of all my son wants me to say hi on his behalf so what's his name what's his name um i would prefer not to say oh yeah we get it all right we were trying to give him a shout out we were gonna do a shot but never mind is he listening or watching what it was he will he is aware that i'm on the phone with you he will see this later somewhere out he will he will later okay let's do it hey buddy hey braxton i'm just gonna guess a name i don't know you can't make up a fake name i can do what i want now he's gonna be confused cindy i apologize for my co-host well tell your son we said hello we'd love to meet him sometime all right i will tell him what's up okay so my question has to do with my next step in the baby step.

1:26:51So I am single. I have a six-month fully funded emergency fund. So I'm excited to start on my 15 % investing. Awesome. Yeah. So, however, I'm not sure if I should because my company that I worked for was recently purchased. And so there's some job uncertainty. so I know you know that maybe a reason to save up cash however I was notified that if I stay with the company for at least another year that they will give me a retention bonus

1:27:29Ken Coleman:okay hold on all right let's pause let's pause real quick because this is interesting you're feeling because of the acquisition that your job may be in trouble and yet they just gave you a notification that if you stay for another year, you get a benefit. Yes. So that's a good sign to me. Yes? What am I missing? It is. They did say that if they haven't decided exactly which path they're going to go, they're kind of still in the figuring things out stage. So they did say that they could end my employment at any point in time. Oh, I missed that part. I must have interrupted you before that. Okay, I get you.

1:28:12Ken Coleman:All right. I'm sorry. That bonus would be payable to me regardless. If it's a year from now or if they determine that my position will be eliminated, I still get that bonus. Okay. Any hint or ideas or hunches on when they're going to make this decision? That I don't know. But I also do know for a fact that if my position is eliminated, I will get that retention bonus along with a severance, which is in excess of 10 months of my current salary. Give us that number. It would be over$100 ,000. Okay. I'm thinking that Cindy would be okay with that$100 ,000. That'd give you a little bit of padding to find another job.

1:29:00Ken Coleman:Is that true? Yes. Okay. So I'm taking a deep breath if I'm you, yes? Yes. Okay. I'm not missing anything. No, I think that I'm okay to go ahead and start investing since I know that I've got six months in the bank already plus some. How much is in the bank? What's the number? I've got about$35 ,000 in the bank, and my emergency fund would be about$19 ,000. Okay, you're more than okay. I would not pile up another dime. I would just go ahead and ratchet that investing up to 15%, and you have a good retirement account through your employer? I do. I have about$300 and something in there. Way to go, Cindy.

1:29:39Ken Coleman:Come on, let's go. Single mom? Yes, yes. And how old are you? That's amazing. How old are you? Oh, you're not supposed to ask. I am 47. Okay, wonderful. Very young, by the way. So I'm just thinking how much this investment account will grow on top of you contributing to it. I have no doubt that you will be a Baby Steps millionaire if you just keep following this path. That is correct. Just for fun, George, I love when you do this. Give Cindy another reason to be very peaceful. What's your income every year? My base is about 136. Love it. Okay. He's running numbers, Cindy, on what that 300 is going to look like.

1:30:22Ken Coleman:This is going to be exciting. Are you ready for this? Here we go. Oh, boy, I saw the number. 47 to 67. You already have 300 grand. You're going to add 1 ,700 a month if you do 15%. you're going to be at about$3.5 million. How could it be done? So I wouldn't be worried. Now, I hope you never lose your job and know that if you ever did, you're in the best situation possible knowing that you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, and you have a severance package here. So I would be sleeping well at night, just crushing it at your job. And if they let go of you, you're going to be so valuable, someone else will scoop you up and you'll probably make more.

1:30:59Ken Coleman:That's right. Awesome. Thank you. Hey, I know you didn't call about this particular piece, but I want to give you this. I wrote a book years ago called The Proximity Principle, and the entire book could be summed up in one sentence. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. And so anytime somebody calls or I run into somebody who's got a situation like this and they're like, I'm unsure about my employment, beyond all the money stuff that we just covered, the next thing I'm going to tell them is start connecting like crazy. you just start connecting in your industry, and you're not going out and telling everybody, the sky's falling, or that in my job.

1:31:40Ken Coleman:But you can say, hey, I'm just part of an acquisition. And so not sure where that's going to go. Could turn out great, but really not sure right now. And so I'm out making connections, coffees, lunches. I am letting everybody know that I might very well be a free agent. And you would be surprised how much peace that's going to give you, number one. But number two, you might be surprised that even though you might not be looking for anything, something might come to you. And the idea here is I want to get around the right people. These are people that are in my industry and reconnect. And that means tell everybody, because you've got a real good reason to share that right now.

1:32:20Ken Coleman:Because anybody in your situation would feel the same way. You're not laid off. This thing might turn out to be great. But I really, really recommend that you do that. And so keep going. But also I'm always creating, it's like, you know, I'm on flight, I'm flying to Virginia later today. And at some point before we take off tonight, they'll show us the emergency exits. I want people doing the same thing professionally. All right. If I were to be laid off or if, you know, what, what would be my emergency exits? Really important. And a lot of people don't do that. And I think you can do that all the time and always put yourself in a good space.

1:32:55Ken Coleman:Last thing I want to say, Cindy, and I know George is going to want to say something too. I'm putting you on the spot, pal. I want your son to hear from us that his mom has done a phenomenal job taking care of him. And buddy, listen to the details today and sit down and talk to mom about what she's done and you learn from her. But also I want you to thank her, give her a big hug because she has really done a phenomenal job taking care of you, pal. No notes. That was perfect. So thank you, Cindy. I was just hoping you would have an analogy for the seat as a flotation device, you know, in the career field.

1:33:31Ken Coleman:What is that? The severance? Well, no, I'll tell you what it is. Your connections are the flotation device. And what about the mask? What are we doing with the mask? The mask is the money stuff. So if I've got the emergency fund, I don't have debt. I mean, I know that I'm not in desperation. I'm not going to die. We take the mask. That's the money. Stability. that's the mask. And then the flotation device is I got connections. I got jobs. People want me. They love me. Keep going.

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1:35:25Ken Coleman:All right, let's go to Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky. Joseph, how can we help? Hey, guys. Appreciate you taking my call. Sure. I have a plumbing business. It's a one-man show, so it's only me. One question is, should I have a separate emergency fund for that business? My other question is, I have some debt, like a van, and I also have some plumbing equipment debt. I can write that off 100%, but should I just pay it off instead? Yes. In short, number one, you should have a separate checking account and savings for the business as some reserves there. So you have that separated? It is separated, but I didn't know if I actually needed a six-month emergency fund.

1:36:22Ken Coleman:No, a business wouldn't operate like your personal household would, but your reserves will sort of act like that. As you've done the business over a long period of time, you'll kind of know what kind of emergencies you might be facing in a business situation. And part of that is reducing your risk will leave you not needing to touch that. And so part of reducing risk is getting rid of that debt because the debt isn't Joseph's plumbing business. You signed the dotted line on that, so it's your personal debt. Correct. So I would pay it off. I'm not a fan of this like, well, I can write it off. It's not a dollar-for-dollar deduction here.

1:37:00Ken Coleman:Right. And it's not a big deal. What's not a big deal? I could pay it off. I have$127 ,000 in my personal account. Awesome. And what's the debt? I have$25 in my business account. I have a$20 ,000 emergency fund separate from that in my savings account. Everything is paid off except for my house. I owe$32 ,000, and my payment is$211.61 a month. What's left on the van? $40 ,000 on the van and$25 ,000 on equipment. So I can pay it off without a problem. So what is keeping you from doing that? it's almost like rent to own. So I was thinking it may be safer to keep that money on hand, but also I have no problem with, I'm not in love with the money.

1:37:55I have no problem with letting it go and paying the debt off. Yeah.

1:38:00Ken Coleman:It's not rent to own. That analogy is kind of weird for me, but you know, look, this is a van that is depreciating every day and the debt is not doing anything, and what's your interest payment on that? 6.39. So what's the monthly payment on the van? $669. Yeah, none of this makes any sense. So you're burning, you said there's$211 plus$669? No, the$211 is how much my house payment is. Oh, okay. $211 a month. So how much will you free up by paying off these debts? $1 ,400. A month. Yes. And you have the cash to pay off the plumbing equipment plus your house. Right. If you just wrote a check today and were done with all of this and invested all of those payments, you'd be so wealthy you would laugh at the tax write-off money you'd be making.

1:38:57Now, I am 50 and I have zero retirement.

1:39:00Ken Coleman:Well, this will free you up to put$1 ,400 away into retirement accounts now. What stopped you from investing?

1:39:10I just started this business a few a couple of years ago so my cash flow hasn't always been what it is today so you're full-time plumbing paid off that house yeah full-time good for you have not paid off the house because at 211 a month I would rather have the$32 ,000 I could collect cans and pay 211 a month that has been my logic on that no we've heard that we've heard that a million times

1:39:37Ken Coleman:How much is the van worth? It's brand new. I just bought it in February. Well, how much is it worth? I know what you owe on it. What could you sell it for? I honestly have no idea. I paid$54 ,000 for it, so I've already paid it down$14 ,000 since February. All right. I mean, a van, it's got all your plumbing tools in it, correct? Correct. Nobody's riding in it. Just you? Just me. So you could get a cheap van, get it wrapped nice, and probably save$20 ,000 right there. You sold it and got a cheaper one. That's where I'm going. Well, the equipment I have will absolutely not fit in a minivan. I never said minivan.

1:40:22Ken Coleman:Nobody said a minivan. I'm just saying you didn't need to buy a brand new van. Oh, I thought you said a minivan. I'm sorry. No, no, no. I actually would really respect a guy who rolls up to be my plumber in a minivan. I know I'm not getting ripped off if a guy shows up in a minivan. I was getting ready to say, for some reason, I trust a plumber in a minivan. I see a plumber in a fancy new van. I go, he's going to price gouge me because he's got payments on that thing. I agree with the big fancy wrap. I just want to see a little square sign on the side of a red minivan. Well, let me play this game with you.

1:40:48Ken Coleman:If you freed up the mortgage plus your debt payments, is that now like$1 ,600 a month? Correct, yes. And could you invest more on top of that? Oh, yeah. Okay, so how much could you invest every month on top of the$1 ,600? to get set for retirement?

1:41:07On top of the$1 ,600, I could do another$2 ,000.

1:41:11Ken Coleman:$3 ,600 a month. You could just start shoveling into investments. Yes. Okay. Well, from age 50 to 67, you shovel$3 ,600 away, you could end up with almost$2 million. Correct. Yep. I've done the math on that. Well, math is one thing. Doing it is a whole other thing, isn't it? Well, I just now sort of got turned on to Dave Ramsey, so I'm kind of learning. Yeah, he's – And I wanted to make sure this was the right step before I paid – Yeah, we recommend any business, any entrepreneur, do it with cash and move at the speed of cash. Do it slow. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't say you're investing in the business by taking on payments or new fancy equipment.

1:41:51Ken Coleman:Just cash flow it, and it's going to reduce your risk, increase your peace, increase your chance of surviving if something were to happen in the business. and I hope the business continues to thrive. Sounds like you're doing great. Yeah, me too. I appreciate that. Yeah. I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me. Yeah, Joseph, listen, you're doing great. I would love for America to hear this. How long ago did you become a plumber and what was the qualification process like? What was the length of that and the cost to become a plumber? Well, so I started my business. I just got started in this four years ago.

1:42:26Ken Coleman:Okay. How long was the qualification process? If someone wants to become a plumber, they have to be an apprentice for a couple of years, and they have to be a journeyman for a couple of years. So you're looking at, you know, four years. Right. Okay. And you did that? You only need a master's if you're pulling permits. You don't have to have a master's. Right. How much did it cost for you to become qualified? It doesn't cost anything. I mean, it costs the price of a test. I'm just asking you a straightforward question. I can't get the answer. A couple hundred dollars. There we go. A couple hundred bucks for you to get that training.

1:43:01Ken Coleman:And now you're making what? As a solopreneur. Will this year be$250 before taxes? Ding, ding, ding. This is what I wanted people to hear. All right. The trades are exploding. This is a guy who's crushing it. Way to go, Joseph. Thanks for sharing that. And for every five plumbers that are getting out of the business, there are only two to replace them. Exactly. Which means we desperately need people like Joseph to get together. There's a massive opportunity right now in the trades, and this is a real-life example. So four years, which is what undergrad would take you, a few hundred bucks, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than undergrad, and you could be making a quarter of a million dollars running your own business, owning your time.

1:43:41Ken Coleman:You didn't notice any student loans in there, did you? Nothing. Nothing in there. Telling you, folks, this is amazing. A little PSA to America's parents that listen to the show and grandparents who have influence over young people. the world is changing and this idea that a college degree is the only way to succeed is crumbling and it's crumbling faster gallup put out new data george first of this year 46 of american parents listen to this folks 46 of american parents would prefer their kids go into trades instead of a college path and that is because they see the handwriting on the wall and i'm telling you we We've got to stop looking down our nose at the trades because you're going to look up five years from now, ten years from now, there's going to be a lot of millionaires in this country who did exactly what Joseph did.

1:44:31Ken Coleman:It may be a little dirty during the day, but you can come home to Egyptian cotton sheets. All right? This is good, honorable work, and it creates jobs. Remember, small business is what fuels the American economy. There you go. Thank you very much, America.

1:45:09you spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:45:56Ken Coleman:All right, our question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. You've tried budgeting. You've tried making minimum payments. But those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down. Y-Refi might be able to help. Learn more at Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. it's not available in all states. Today's question comes from Tucker in Washington. The company I've been with for just a few months is experiencing financial struggles. Upper management has mentioned in a couple of company-wide meetings that there are only 10 months of cash left and we have had negative cash flow month after month.

1:46:33Ken Coleman:I left my previous job because my manager was extremely toxic and the company culture wasn't good. Will two employment stints of less than a year be a red flag on my resume? I just got married six months ago and we want to start a family soon. So my job will be our sole source of income. Would it be wise to begin looking for another job? Or should I wait and see what happens with the company in a year? Yes. I think you should start looking yesterday. Here's the narrative. Because I understand the question, George. Two jobs on the resume, you got to tell the truth. You don't bash them. You say, okay, here's what happened in the last job.

1:47:08And got this other job.

1:47:11Ken Coleman:This is the story I was told. story changed. Here's where we're at. So I've just, I've had some really bad luck, you know, and that's different than you flaking. It's not you job hopping. Yeah. So just control the narrative and absolutely be looking and don't have any shame over this. You know, you just got to take control of the situation. Now we'll tell you this, the job market is a lot tougher right now. It's what we call a soft job market where companies are sitting tight, kind of waiting to see what's going to happen with all the tariffs. That's one of the big things, a lot of uncertainty right now as to what's going on there.

1:47:49Ken Coleman:And the economy is, you know, with interest rates, what the Fed going to do. So when you get into a lot of uncertainty in the macro economy, companies tend to just slow down when it comes to hiring. And we're seeing that. This is a soft market. unemployment is up into the low force. So yeah, I would not, you know, ride this out, ride the wave. Not smart. And then just wait until the buzzer beater when they lay you off to go, oh, I guess I should look for a job. Yeah. Especially in this case, because he's the sole income. And the writing is very much on the wall here. They're telling you straight up.

1:48:25Ken Coleman:And you know what else? I want to make sure I cover this. If your wife has the ability, I don't know what the family situation way she is, but if she has the ability to work, I would absolutely for a season, if you can do it and it makes financial sense to do it, I would do it in this time as well. Stacking up a little bit of extra cash that might be able to help us if this thing goes and falls before you can get another job. So this is when we act like a storm is coming. What do we do when we know a storm is coming? And let's act accordingly. So really, really important. Ethan is up in Athens, Georgia.

1:48:59Ken Coleman:Ethan, how can we help? hey guys thanks for taking my call really appreciate it sure um so i was driving a 2005 toyota camry uh and it got totaled i have a year left in law school and i'm trying to set a budget i'm buying a new well not a new car but a used car did you get any money for the camry yes i got six thousand for the camry i have about 10k in liquid cash and then another uh 40 000 right now in stocks. Non-retirement, you've just been investing on the side in single stocks? Yeah, well, not single. I've been trying to buy like the bonds and mutual funds and stuff like that, but yeah. Okay.

1:49:39Ken Coleman:Do you have any debt? No debt whatsoever. Wow. You're going through law school debt-free? Yes, sir. How'd you do that? Wow. Did you get a full ride or what? Yeah, I did. Wow. Okay. How about that? Stud. All right. So you're asking us how much car should you get? Pretty much, yeah. Well, I mean, you're going to want something that will get you through law school and beyond. And so you can spend more than$6 ,000. You're in a good spot financially. Are you working at all? Do you have any income right now? Right now I have no income, but I already have a job set for next October once I pass the bar.

1:50:19Ken Coleman:Fantastic. And will it be in the current area, or are you moving somewhere? A bit more towards Atlanta. Yeah. Well, George, I don't know if you've got a formula for this, because he doesn't have an income, and he has no debt, and he's going to be making really good money. What kind of money are you going to be making first year? I'll be making$190 my first year. Woo! Bro. Debt-free, making that kind of money? With a full ride? Are you single? Yeah, not right now. Not for long with those numbers. There it is. Hey, the ladies will be coming around for that one. I would just be reasonable. For any young person, especially dudes, they tend to overbuy in car because they want to flex.

1:51:00Ken Coleman:I hope that's not you. You don't seem like the type. So I would just buy something reasonable. What have you been looking at? I know you've been car shopping a little bit. Yeah, I've been just looking at new Camrys, something like late teens with less than 100 ,000 miles. That's something newer, but I'm not spending everything that I have. How much are those cars? between 15 and 20 ,000. Perfect. I was going to throw the number of 20 out and let George react to me, just based on your situation. Yeah, 20 felt like my upper limit for just a young dude. Yeah, I'm taking anything flashy. Top line 20 is what I was going to say.

1:51:34Ken Coleman:Okay. And if you need to sell some stocks to do it, I would. I wouldn't be in any single stocks. I don't know why you're even in bonds at this age. You're not 70. You shouldn't be worried about long-term market returns. I think he's an old soul. I'm going to guess he's an old soul. is that true uh yeah something i inherited to my grandpa okay there we go yeah i could hear it on you you you are very mature i would go car shopping i would stick to independent used car dealerships and facebook marketplace get a pre-purchase inspection on whatever you get and i would also search the exact year make model do your research and know exactly what recalls have been made on that exact model?

1:52:16Ken Coleman:What are the classic repairs that tend to happen on that car? And that will give you a lot of confidence as you step into it. All right, awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. You bet, man. And listen, buyer beware, tight-lipped when you go to the car dealer. Don't tell them you're paying cash right up front. Don't tell them that. Don't tell them you're in law school. Don't tell them you got a$190 ,000 job waiting on you. They will be on you like vultures on roadkill. I mean, all over you. So just keep it tight like you're playing some poker focus on the out the door price that's right that's it that's what i want to focus on i don't want to talk about payments that's right here's my budget and if you walk in with a check for that amount oh boy there and you walk you have some walk away power oh boy i love that game these guys will start singing they really will they'll line up like a choir for you you know what i mean they'll be the manager the assistant manager you ever seen these guys it's hilarious there's always like seven people in the back You know what I mean?

1:53:13Ken Coleman:They always have to go into the back to talk to some mysterious figure. Always love that. My manager's going to take me to the cleaners if I give you this deal, man. But I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you. Hold on one second. Don't tell anyone. Give me a few minutes. I've got to go back. It's like he's the Wizard of Oz. Do they all go to the same heebie-jeebie-sleezy school? I think they have a little room with a water cooler, and they go and they just look at their phone for two or three minutes, and then they come back, and then they play the next negotiation game. They take a little vape break and then come back and say, All right.

1:53:42Ken Coleman:I think it is a vape break. I could get in a lot of trouble for this one. Yeah. But we can make it work. This is the best I can do. I love that one. I can't stand it. I can't either. Can I walk back there with you? Because I think we could speed this negotiation up. If you walked me back to the Wizard of Oz, I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure he's going to be fine if I go back there with you. But it's the whole, you all stay out of here. Can I get you something to drink? Can I get you a bottle of water? No, you can get me a good deal. That's all I'm here for. I don't care about the bottle of water. In fact, my wife and I brought a cooler.

1:54:15Ken Coleman:We have our own bottle of water. My wife can't go into those places. She has to sit in the car because she's too uncomfortable. It's too stressful, isn't it? Yeah, I like the conflict. I like the negotiation. You do. You know what you do? You get right to the fees. Yeah, I just hope they don't - You go from the window price to, what are the fees on this? I know you. Oh, I don't do - If they have anything other than a small dock fee, I'm walking away. They start pitching me on, hey, we did the window tint and we get the - Nope, I'm out. Take that off of here or I'm getting out of here. Sales price plus tax, maybe$100 dock fee or I leave.

1:54:47Ken Coleman:You might as well be on Shark Tank. I bet you sit there and you cross your arms. Oh, the guys at the dealership, they see me coming in. They go, not today. I don't want to deal with this guy. My last car, though, the finance office called me and said, hey, we noticed you were paying cash and we just think that's a terrible idea. It's a much better, smarter to finance. Did you scream, do you know who I am? I almost went, hey, just Google me. I can't deal with this right now. That's a flex. That's a flex. Yeah. Hey, listen, Mr. Finance Manager, I'm going to send you a link. I'd like to click on it.

1:55:17Ken Coleman:It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You should read it. Oh, look at that, folks. He snuck the book promo in just like that. I didn't even see it coming. It's a great book wherever books are sold.

1:55:40you Thank you.

1:56:14Ken Coleman:Never forget their names. All right. Two interesting things there. Contrasting. I'll chew on that. Chew on that. Tyler is up in Maryland. Tyler, how can we help? Hey, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm all right. How can we help? Well, I was calling in because I found myself in a situation where my wife and I, Um, we recently moved October of 2024, um, from our first home to this being our second. And, um, it was pretty much at the time of our price range. Pardon me. Um, we want, I've lived in eight different homes growing up and we have a, we have a two-year-old son and just found out we have another one on the way.

1:56:59Um, and I, it was really, yeah, he's a tornado. You know, but it was really important to me that, like, we both wanted him to have, like, a house that he grew up. You know, all of our kids just have a house they grew up in. So we stretched. We knew that we would be a little house poor, but we figured if we can, you know, tighten our belt and, you know, spend wisely, that eventually our salaries will, you know, kind of, I guess, catch up to where our mortgage was. And that was before I really got into Dave Ramsey and learned more about finances. So since then, we've been going on a year here, and the mortgage is about$4 ,500 a month, and our net income per month is about$9 ,400.

1:57:50So I think it's like a 47%, which is double what I know is recommended. um so in addition to that we have um we only have one car payment which my truck uh three years left on it about 15 000 left um what's the payment uh payment's about 536 a month um my wife also has student loans which is probably a total like 20 000 um and it was through the carrier she was using, I guess, had a class action lawsuit. I guess somebody advised her not to pay us, so we stopped, and then that's now bringing her credit down, so now we're trying to get current on that. And then we have credit card debt, which is probably total like around$20 ,000 between three different cards.

1:58:43So pretty much what I'm thinking, what I think is inevitable at this point, with having a family and with now realizing how expensive kids are and unknown expenses and activities for them and toys for them. I'm kind of thinking getting out of this house might be the best thing for our family to downsize the smaller house with a much lower mortgage. I just want to get your take on that.

1:59:13Ken Coleman:What could you sell the house for and what's left on the mortgage? so we bought it for about 600 and it's about a year ago um we're thinking about refinancing which would then put another 15 onto it because of the fees um but i i think it i don't we won't get 600 i don't think i think it's gonna be it would be a short sale why would it be a short sale well i don't it it was on the market for probably about four months um it started at like 750 and it went all the way down to 600 before we we uh bought it how much did you put down when we didn't put anything out bought to uh the va

1:59:59man this is heartbreaking yeah it's i i'm having buyer's remorse and i think i'm I'm starting to realize what's probably inevitable, where my wife is very in love with the house, and it's perfect for our big family, which is what she wants. But I come home, and I just feel like there's no peace at all. I know that for her.

2:00:26Ken Coleman:Is she aware of this? Is she aware of how you're feeling? She's aware. Yeah, we've talked about her game plan, which is what we're doing now. So I'm giving her the grace of just seeing how it works was tightening our belt more and not spending as much. Whatever surplus we have at the end of each week or each month, our checking account will just apply toward bills. but when I do our budget between our net income and all the bills or the credit cards the loans etc we're like 1300 in the hole so you're going to continually go into debt at this rate yeah you can't even live off of 9400 dollars a month yeah so there's no tightening and is she working full time we're already yeah we both work full time so there's no you know there's no dream here where we go well we're making double now because she's working full-time so if there's no room here to wiggle on income you don't see your income shooting up in the next six months and you're going to continually go into debt then i think we just have to cut our losses and get out of this house i would try to still get as much as you can for it yeah but you don't have any equity so it doesn't really it doesn't solve your problems It's going to cost you money to get out of this house, and you don't even have that money.

2:01:53Yeah.

2:01:54Ken Coleman:What could you sell the truck for? On KBB, it looked like it was valued at around$10 ,000, so I'm a little upside down on it, which is what I'm trying to put. I drill monthly for the Army, so I'm trying to put those checks toward this to pay it down as quickly as possible. Man. And this, I'm trying to figure out how you have$5 ,000 or$6 ,000 or$7 ,000 of expenses on top of the mortgage. Yeah. You guys are spending like you're in Congress. There's a lot of just entertainment, luxury eating out here, I think. I think it's more than just covering the bills. Yeah, I agree. My wife, you know, well, when we got in the house, it was, we were spending like kings and queens.

2:02:40It was our own fault. You know, we had a really tough conversation about it about a month ago. And we're like, you know, we really tried. We went to like a cash budget where, you know, we'll take out X amount each week once we get paid. And this is what we have to spend. There's no credit cards. We're not putting anything on debit card. But even in that, we're still in the hole. It's just between kids' stuff and now a new one on the way. I just don't see it working out in our favor by staying in this house.

2:03:16Ken Coleman:Yeah, I mean, could you go rent somewhere for$2 ,000,$3 ,000? Yeah, in our area, there's some places that are rent for about$25 ,000 or$3 ,000. So that'll save you the$2 ,000 that you're losing. So instead of going$15 ,000 into debt, maybe we could save$5 ,000. And here's a question I have, George and Tyler. I'm asking this on your behalf. You know, every dollar, which is obviously it's not just a budgeting app. I mean, it's FPU. It's the baby steps. I mean, it's helping people. And when we talk about on the show, we're telling people, this is real, that in less than 15 minutes, people are finding thousands of dollars in margin.

2:03:55Ken Coleman:We know that from every dollar. That's what we're hearing. My question is, is you're sitting in his kitchen right now. OK, how much do I think you could find money? in this current situation. And that's why I'm saying whenever I see, well, the mortgage is$4 ,500, they're bringing in$10 ,000. There's room here. There's some spending that we can ratchet down on. I think there is. There's more cutting. It's going to be a fight. It's going to be, well, I'm used to doing this and now you're taking this away from me. And so I don't want this to be you versus her. This needs to be you walking hand in hand, looking in the same direction, going, we need to come to Jesus meeting because we're going to go$15 ,000 into the hole the way we're spending.

2:04:32Ken Coleman:We already can't get out of this as is. We need to do something drastic. And that means selling the house and renting and cutting our spending and working a second job for at least two years to clean this up. I really want you guys in every dollar. And that's going to be our gift to you. So Kelly's going to take care of it. You and your wife got to commit to using it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it literally, it will coach you up. It is so unbelievable, all the new things they've added to it. So you guys got to commit to getting in control of the spending and finding ways to make some more money after selling this house.

2:05:05Ken Coleman:Just to give you more margin. By the way, George, I want to mention, this is super exciting. The premiere of the all-new EveryDollar is September 25th. You're going to see some amazing success stories. You're a part of that. That's right. We want you to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops. And I've said it a couple times today, just kind of naturally. George, 10 seconds, or give us five seconds on the new EveryDollar. It's unreal. Well, it's going to digitally coach you like we would on The Ramsey Show and walk with you step by step through the baby steps on top of helping you do your budget.

2:05:36Ken Coleman:All right, remember, there's only one way to get financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.